bazm-i-ALUP ko sar-garm awr dil-chasp karne awr rakhne ke liye chand tajaaviiz
Naseer
In the past I have sought your views and suggestions on this very
topic. It is unfortunate that your response to my requests has been
next to nothing:(
I have a few ideas and I would like your support only if you feel they
are worth while.
1) Each ALUPer, in a seperate thread, puts forward one shi'r for which
he/she needs its explanation from other ALUPers. By this method, one
could have several threads on the go at the same time. Six months
later or even before perhaps, one could repeat such an exercise with a
second shi'r from each participant.
2) I know nothing about prosody. People might suggest that I read up
in a book or read one of the articles, for example by our Sarwar Raz
Sahib. This would certainly be one way of doing it. But, I would
prefer a more inter-active lesson by lesson (say 20 lessons?)
approach. I have you in mind, my dear UVR Sahib, if you would be so
kind.
3) Poetry by Lady Poets. Zuhra Sahiba, could you start a series on
this topic at some suitable stage? I am sure Zoya Sahiba will be more
than happy to assist.
4) Poetry for/about children
5) Humourous Poetry
6) Food poetry, i.e Urdu poetry where bhinDii, baiNgan, aam, amruud,
biryaanii, firnii, maTar-gosht vaGhairah vaGhairah kii shaan meN tab'
aazmaa'ii kii ga'ii ho.
7) Nature Poetry
8) Word of the Week (It's meaning and ash'aar incorporating that word)
9) bait-baazii, perhaps as suggested in my post whose link is provided
below.
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.language.urdu.poetry/browse_frm...
10) A topic on Urdu language. I have one in mind at the moment, but, I
shall keep this to myself for the moment:)
I know I have mentioned a few people by name. I hope you do not mind
my approach to you in this manner.
Best Wishes,
Naseer
Manohar
Aadaab:
jal uThe bazm-e-Gair ke dar-o-baam
jab bhii ham Khaanamaa.N_Kharaab aaye
The last line i do not understand.
M
RC
KhaanumaaN_Kharaab = unfortunate/wretched. Hope that helps now.
RC
Manohar
Han Janaab wo to muze maalum tha lekin does it when I become wreched
or home breaker ?
M
Raz
mukarram-e-bandah janaab Naseer SaaHeb:aadaab!
aap kee tajaaweez laa,iq-e-teHseen haiN. aap ALUP meN nihaayat sargarm
haiN aur yeh ham sab ke liYe da'wat-e-a'mal hai. aap ne :sar-e-raahe:
meraa naam bhee liyaa hai:
Zikr meraa mujh se behtar hai keh us meHfil meN hai!
agar chand dost tai,yyaar ho jaaYeN aur munaasib meHnat kareN to ALUP
kaa phir se :zindah ho jaanaa: mushkil naheeN hai. meraa Khayaal hai
keh aap kee beshtar tajaaweez par kaam ho saktaa hai. agar UVR
SaaHeb :prosody: (a'rooZ^) par asbaaq likh deN to yeh bohat hee kaar-
aamad qadam ho gaa. aise silsileh kee kaamyaabee kaa daar-o-madaar
arbaab-e-meHfil par hai. agar munaasib dilchaspee dikhaayee gayee to
kaamyaabee yaqeenee hai. mujh ko Khud a'rooZ^ se bohat dilchadpee hai
lekin meraa tajribah hai keh aaj kaa a'am shaa,i'r aisee :nazaakatoN:
meN :ulajhnaa: naheeN chaahataa hai. Urdu Anjuman meN maiN ne a'rooZ^
par asbaaq kaa ek silsilah shuroo' kiyaa hai. saat (7) asbaaq aa chuke
haiN lekin dostoN ko in se koyee KhaaZ dilchaspee naheeN ma'loom
hotee. chunaan.ch yeh ma'loom naheeN keh Sabaq-8 kab tak aaYe gaa. UVR
SaaHeb kaa jawaab aaYe to un ke Khayaalaat se istifaadah kiyaa jaaYe.
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
UVR
On Sep 19, 3:41 am, Naseer <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> 2) I know nothing about prosody. People might suggest that I read up
> in a book or read one of the articles, for example by our Sarwar Raz
> Sahib. This would certainly be one way of doing it. But, I would
> prefer a more inter-active lesson by lesson (say 20 lessons?)
> approach. I have you in mind, my dear UVR Sahib, if you would be so
> kind.
>
I would be extremely interested in an interactive lesson series on
Urdu prosody in the form(at) you describe. However, whilst you are
asking me to be the instructor in this series, I am quite sure that it
would be more appropriate for me to sit amongst the students. The
fact of the matter is that I do not have any technical knowledge of
the theory of Urdu prosody beyond what I have been able to learn from
Sarwar Saahib's 'nikaat-e-suKhan' series, nor do I have a good enough
understanding of the practice of Urdu poetry apart from what I have
been able to glean from my own observations of the poetry of the
masters.
It seems to me that a lesson-series like this could be provided, once
again, by Sarwar saahib. Not only would his scholarship be the
appropriate fount from which all of us could drink, but it also would
be an excellent way for us to get him back in our midst. His is one
of the presences ALUP misses the sorest.
> 6) Food poetry, i.e Urdu poetry where bhinDii, baiNgan, aam, amruud,
> biryaanii, firnii, maTar-gosht vaGhairah vaGhairah kii shaan meN tab'
> aazmaa'ii kii ga'ii ho.
>
I can't help but think that ALL of Urdu poetry is supposedly an
"onion". To put it another way, with apologies to the poet Frost,
"the words are complex, dark and deep; I have layers to peel 'fore I
sleep"!
> 8) Word of the Week (It's meaning and ash'aar incorporating that word)
>
> 9) bait-baazii, perhaps as suggested in my post whose link is provided
> below.
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.language.urdu.poetry/browse_frm...
>
> 10) A topic on Urdu language. I have one in mind at the moment, but, I
> shall keep this to myself for the moment:)
All of these have my wholehearted agreement.
-UVR.
UVR
I hope RC saahib will excuse me for speaking out of turn, but I must
admit that I'm having more trouble understanding the question in your
(Manohar saahib's) last post than I'm having understanding the sh'er!
-UVR.
RC
>
> - Show quoted text -
No pardon needed here - the question posed is not complete, to me too.
No valid answer can be given until the question is correctly stated in
full.
Good that you asked it before I did.
RC
Naseer
UVR Sahib and RC Sahib, aadaab.
I believe Manohar Sahib meant to write..
"haaN janaab, vuh to mujhe ma'luum hai lekin does it (mean) when *I*
become wretched or homebreaker?"
I think Manohar Sahib is:
1) Giving (incorrectly) "KHaan-o-maaN" a secondary meaning of "home-
breaker".
2) He is asking whether it is the poet who is the "wretched, home-
breaking" agent or is it someone else?
As for the shi'r...( Manohar Sahib),
jal uThe bazm-e-Gair ke dar-o-baam
jab bhii ham Khaanamaa.N_Kharaab aaye
shaa'ir kah rahaa hai kih maiN, jo KHud KHaanah-KHaraab huuN (ya'nii
jis ke apne ghar kaa satyaanaas ho chukaa hai) jab Ghair (rival) kii
maHfil meN aataa huuN to us ke ghar ke darvaaze awr chhat jal uThte
haiN (Hasad/jealousy se) kih yih yahaaN kyaa lene aa gayaa hai. (???).
I suppose the poet might be eluding one state of ruin (his own) to
what his mere presence can lead to ( the rival's ruin).
Just a guess!
Naseer
Zoya
First of all, I really want to commend you on your efforts (often
single handedly) to keep Alup alive. Thank you.
I agree with UVR sahib, there is no one more qualified than Sarwar
sahib to conduct lessons on 'arruuz'. Pretty much everything I know
about this topic, I have learnt from Sarwar sahib . We are indeed
blessed that he is willing to share his time and knowledge with us.
Sarwar sahib, please, let us start the registration for the new
course, may I please reserve the middle seat in the front row of
pupils, right under your nose. I promise not to make any trouble! :)
Naseer sahib, I am having a generally very busy life and a
particularly crazy current semester, teaching a new upper division
course, and a couple of online courses. However, I will try my best to
contribute as much as I can to Bait Bazi type threads. I find the idea
of ' word of the week' particularly exciting. Nita used to do this a
long time ago, and I have sort of missed the practice. Let us get
going!
More later,
___Zoya
Naseer
On Sep 21, 3:04 pm, UVR <u...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Naseer saahib,
>
> On Sep 19, 3:41 am, Naseer <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2) I know nothing about prosody. People might suggest that I read up
> > in a book or read one of the articles, for example by our Sarwar Raz
> > Sahib. This would certainly be one way of doing it. But, I would
> > prefer a more inter-active lesson by lesson (say 20 lessons?)
> > approach. I have you in mind, my dear UVR Sahib, if you would be so
> > kind.
>
> I would be extremely interested in an interactive lesson series on
> Urdu prosody in the form(at) you describe. However, whilst you are
> asking me to be the instructor in this series, I am quite sure that it
> would be more appropriate for me to sit amongst the students. The
> fact of the matter is that I do not have any technical knowledge of
> the theory of Urdu prosody beyond what I have been able to learn from
> Sarwar Saahib's 'nikaat-e-suKhan' series, nor do I have a good enough
> understanding of the practice of Urdu poetry apart from what I have
> been able to glean from my own observations of the poetry of the
> masters.
>
> It seems to me that a lesson-series like this could be provided, once
> again, by Sarwar saahib. Not only would his scholarship be the
> appropriate fount from which all of us could drink, but it also would
> be an excellent way for us to get him back in our midst. His is one
> of the presences ALUP misses the sorest.
As the saying goes UVR Sahib, "I know where you are coming from" and I
understand and agree with your sentiments. My problem is that if the
likes of you and Zoya Sahiba are in the same class as me, what hope
would remedial students like me have? You two would have a head start
awr ham log to sharm se paanii paanii ho jaa'eN ge!
I agree with you that if Sarwar Sahib would be willing to be our
"piir-
o-murshid", it would indeed be an honour for all of us. His active
presence is sorely and surely missed. I am aware that Jamil Sahib
apnii "ustaadii" meN in dinoN baRe masruuf haiN but where are Raj
Kumar Sahib and Zafar Sahib these days? I wonder what Afzal Sahib's
views are on the topic of this thread.
> > 6) Food poetry, i.e Urdu poetry where bhinDii, baiNgan, aam, amruud,
> > biryaanii, firnii, maTar-gosht vaGhairah vaGhairah kii shaan meN tab'
> > aazmaa'ii kii ga'ii ho.
>
> I can't help but think that ALL of Urdu poetry is supposedly an
> "onion". To put it another way, with apologies to the poet Frost,
> "the words are complex, dark and deep; I have layers to peel 'fore I
> sleep"!
OK, you are saying that Urdu poetry itself is food for thought! Fair
enough. But it would be nice if poetry on food stuffs (fruit,
vegetables and cooked dishes) could be found and posted.
> > 8) Word of the Week (It's meaning and ash'aar incorporating that word)
>
> > 9) bait-baazii, perhaps as suggested in my post whose link is provided
> > below.
>
> >http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.language.urdu.poetry/browse_frm...
>
> > 10) A topic on Urdu language. I have one in mind at the moment, but, I
> > shall keep this to myself for the moment:)
>
> All of these have my wholehearted agreement.
>
Thank you for your kind support UVR Sahib. In my line of business, we
have a daily DMM (Divisional Management Meeting) where the SMT (Senior
Management Team) task other people with certain jobs. I shall pretend
that for once I am a member of the SMT and consequently task you to
start, at your leisure, a "bait-baazii" thread of the type you have
proposed!:). In case you feel hard done by this "demand", there are
tasks for others too!:)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Naseer
On Sep 22, 1:47 am, Zoya <zbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with UVR sahib, there is no one more qualified than Sarwar
> sahib to conduct lessons on 'arruuz'. Pretty much everything I know
> about this topic, I have learnt from Sarwar sahib . We are indeed
> blessed that he is willing to share his time and knowledge with us.
> Sarwar sahib, please, let us start the registration for the new
> course, may I please reserve the middle seat in the front row of
> pupils, right under your nose. I promise not to make any trouble! :)
If the "teacher's pets" are going to sit at the front close to their
teacher, then I will have to find a corner at the back of the class to
avoid any eye contact and embarrassment!:)
> Naseer sahib, I am having a generally very busy life and a
> particularly crazy current semester, teaching a new upper division
> course, and a couple of online courses.
vaise, kya aap mujhe ustaad banaane ke chakkar meiN haiN?! meraa
shumaar to shagirdoN meiN hotaa hai, Naseer sahib!! :)
_____Zoya (June 2009)
ab to aap hameN maan ga'ii hoN gii kih ham ne aap ko ustaad pahle se
kyoN maanaa hu'aa hai!:) ustaad jo ThahriiN!:) What do you teach by
the way?
> However, I will try my best to
> contribute as much as I can to Bait Bazi type threads. I find the idea
> of ' word of the week' particularly exciting. Nita used to do this a
> long time ago, and I have sort of missed the practice. Let us get
> going!
Well, Zoya Sahiba, here is your chance to bring your excitement fto
Nita Jii's original "Word of the Week" idea. You have been tasked by
SMT in the DMM to start this thread in not too distant future!
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Naseer
> agar chand dost tai,yyaar ho jaaYeN aur munaasib meHnat kareN to ALUP
> kaa phir se :zindah ho jaanaa: mushkil naheeN hai. meraa Khayaal hai
> keh aap kee beshtar tajaaweez par kaam ho saktaa hai.
aap ba-jaa farmaate haiN. is bazm ko sargarm-o-dil-chasp rakhne ke
liye faqat chand hii ashKHaas kii miHnat kii zaruurat hai. aap ne is
laRii meN Hissah liyaa awr apnii qiimatii aaraa' se hameN navaazaa, is
ke liye ham sab aap ke iHsaan-mand haiN. puraane logoN meN se agar
aap, Zafar Sahib, Jamil Sahib awr Raj Kumar Sahib hamaaraa haath
baTaa'eN to yih hamaarii KHush-nasiibii ho gii. Afzal Sahib awr UVR
Sahib to pahle hii kaafii fa''aal haiN.
> agar UVR SaaHeb :prosody: (a'rooZ^) par asbaaq likh deN to yeh bohat hee kaar-
> aamad qadam ho gaa. aise silsileh kee kaamyaabee kaa daar-o-madaar
> arbaab-e-meHfil par hai. agar munaasib dilchaspee dikhaayee gayee to
> kaamyaabee yaqeenee hai. mujh ko Khud a'rooZ^ se bohat dilchadpee hai
> lekin meraa tajribah hai keh aaj kaa a'am shaa,i'r aisee :nazaakatoN:
> meN :ulajhnaa: naheeN chaahataa hai. Urdu Anjuman meN maiN ne a'rooZ^
> par asbaaq kaa ek silsilah shuroo' kiyaa hai. saat (7) asbaaq aa chuke
> haiN lekin dostoN ko in se koyee KhaaZ dilchaspee naheeN ma'loom
> hotee. chunaan.ch yeh ma'loom naheeN keh Sabaq-8 kab tak aaYe gaa. UVR
> SaaHeb kaa jawaab aaYe to un ke Khayaalaat se istifaadah kiyaa jaaYe.
aap ne UVR Sahib awr Zoya Sahiba ke KHutuut paRh liye hoN ge. in kii
baatoN se saaf zaahir hai kih in ke nazdiik ALUP meN aap se bihtar
ko'ii aisaa fard nahiiN jo 'ilm-i-'uruuz se naa-vaaqif logoN ko is
'ilm se ruu-shinaas karvaa sake. mujhe ma'luum hai kih maazii meN aap
ne is mauzuu' par baRii jaaN-fishaanii se kaam kiyaa hai awr maqaalaat
bhii likhe haiN. itnaa kaam karne ke ba'd agar log use itnii
paziiraa'ii nah deN to yaqiin-an insaan dil-bardaashtah ho saktaa hai.
is liye maiN ne sochaa kih mumkin hai aap kaa jii is mauzuu' se qadre
uchaaT ho gayaa ho. lekin aap ke KHat ko paRh kar baRii masarrat hu'ii
hai kih aap ab bhii ek diigar maHfil meN is kaam ko jaarii-o-saarii
rakhe hu'e haiN. agar aap dars-o-tadriis kaa silsilah shuruu' kar
sakte haiN to bahut se logoN ke liye bi_l'umuum awr mere liye
bi_lKHusuus, aap ke 'ilm se faiz-yaab hone kaa sunahrii mauqa'ah ho
gaa. nah sirf yih balkih aap kii rizaa-mandii hamaare liye baa'is-i-
faKHr ho gii.
agar aap pahle hii saat asbaaq kii tayyaarii kar chuke haiN to, Zoya
Sahiba ke ba-qaul, kyaa ham apnii registration karvaanaa shuruu' kar
sakte haiN?:) mujhe yaqiin hai kih beshtar ALUPer aap kii tadriis se
istifaadah kareN ge.awr ise apne liye nihaayat mufiid paa'eN ge.
KHair-KHvaah,
Naseer
Zuhra
>
> 3) Poetry by Lady Poets. Zuhra Sahiba, could you start a series on
> this topic at some suitable stage? I am sure Zoya Sahiba will be more
> than happy to assist.
aadaab, Naseer saahab.
maiN iss silsile kaa aaGhaaz zaroor karti lekin mujhe Khud khwaateen
ke kalaam se zeyadah waaqfiat nahi hai, bas Parveen Shakir ko kuchh
paRha hai magar unka kalaam to yaqeenan ALUP par pehle hii kaafi
maujood hoga. baaqi maiN ne Adaa Jaffery, Shabnam Shakeel, Noshi
Gilani, Sameena Raja waGhairah kii chand GhazaleN/ashaar to zaroor
sunn rakhe haiN magar afsos ke mujhe unko kabhi ba-qaaedah paRhne kaa
mau'qa nahi milaa.
aur haaN, aapki sab tajaaveez achhi haiN aur ALUP par bait-baazi kaa
aaGhaaz jab bhii hua maiN uss meN zaroor shirkat karoN gi!
Regards,
Zuhra
Raz
>
> - Show quoted text -
mukarram-e-bandah Naseer SaaHeb: aadaab-o-tasleemaat!
bandah-nawaazee ke liYe saraapaa sipaas hooN. aap ne a'rooZ^ ke
Hawaaleh se jo kuchh likhaa hai woh bajaa hai lekin :
is meN do chaar bohat saKht maqaam aate haiN!
is ijmaal kee tafSeel kuchh yooN hai:
(1) ALUP meN bohat muddat huyee jo maZ^aameen maiN ne :Nikaat-e-
Sukhan: ke u'nwaan se pesh kiYe the (aur jo ab bhee meree :site:
www.sarwarraz.com par maujood haiN) sab :maaNge kaa ujaalaa: the
ya'nee un meN meree apnee girah kaa kuchh nah thaa. www.urduanjuman.com
par maZ^aameen ke jo asbaaq pesh kar rahaa hooN woh bhee tamaam-o-
kamaal kitaaboN se istifaadeh ke ba'd hee likhe jaa rahe haiN. is
mauZ^oo' par yehee kuchh ho saktaa hai. z^aahir hai keh is meN
ijtihaad-o-iKhtiraa' mumkin naheeN hai. so maiN ne in asbaaq meN apne
paRhe huwe ko aasaan aur a'am fehm zabaan meN likhne kee koshish kee
hai. jab yeh kaam mukammal ho gaa to asbaaq kee ta'daad kam-o-besh 20
ho gee, inshaa Allah!
(2) Urdu Anjuman ke maZ^aameen Urdu rasm-e-Khat^ meN haiN kyoN.k Urdu
chaupaal meN Urdu kaa hee jawaaz bantaa hai. Roman hamaaree majbooree
hai, tarjeeH naheeN. is kaa laazimee nateejah yeh huwaa hai keh woh
dost in maZ^aameen se istifaadah naheeN kar sakte haiN jo Urdu se
muHabbat to karte haiN lekin us ke rasm-e-Khat^ se waaqif naheeN haiN.
in maZ^aameen ko Roman meN muntaqil kar ke yahaaN lagaanaa jo waqt aur
meHnat chaahataa hai woh mujh ko mushkil se hee mayassar aa saktaa
hai. kaam hazaar haiN aur kaam karne waale ma'doode chand! aaj kal har
chaupaal par Urdu likhee jaa saktee hai lekin ALUP par mas,alah Urdu
paRhne waaloN kaa ho gaa. so maZ^aameen kaa Roman meN dobaarah likhnaa
Z^arooree huwaa aur us kee mushkilaat ma'loom! aap hee, yaa koyee aur
dost, is kaa Hal tajweez kareN to kaam shaayad ho jaaYe.
(3) jaisaa keh aap aur sab dost jaante haiN, i'lm-e-a'rooZ^ Arabee
eejaad hai. phir Iran meN is meN tarmeem-o-ijtihaad kiyaa gayaa. ba'd
meN is ke beshtar uSool Urdu meN le liYe gaYe lekin chooN.k Urdu meN
maqaamee zabaaneN bhee jaZb haiN is liYe us kee Sarf-o-NaHv (grammar)
bhee bohat uljhee huyee aur pecheedah hai. Maulvee Abdul Haq ne apnee
kitaab Urdu Sarf-o-NaHv meN in nazaakatoN kaa ba-Khoobee iHaat^ah
kiyaa hai. is pecheedagee ke pesh-e-naz^ar i'lm-e-a'rooZ^ ke qawaaneen
ko Urdu shaa,i'ree ke liYe jaa-bajaa badlaa gayaa hai aur asaatiZah ne
Haalaat se maSaaliHat (adjustments) kee hai. a'rooZ^ ko Roman meN is
t^araH likhnaa keh saaree baateN aur rumooz Saaf Saaf bayaan ho jaaYeN
nihaayat hee diqqat-t^alab kaam hai.
sab se pehle to ham ko kisee ek Roman kitaabat ke niz^aam ko apnaanaa
ho gaa (maiN ne apne hee murattab kiYe huwe niz^aam ko ista'maal kiyaa
hai) aur us ke ba'd jahaaN kaheeN mat^lab kee adaa,igee meN mushkil ho
wahaaN (Zailee t^aur par hee sahee) Urdu likhnee ho gee. kyaa is
Soorat meN yeh silsilah qaabil-e-qubool yaa qaabil-e-fehm ho gaa? is
kaa jawaab ALUP waale hee de sakte haiN.
(4) meraa tajribah hai keh aise mushkil aur Khushk mauZ^oo' se log
bohat jald uktaa jaate haiN aur thoRe hee dinoN meN is kee jaanib
shaayad hee koyee dekhtaa hai. mujh ko aaj Anjuman meN isee mushkil
kaa saamnaa hai keh saat (7) asbaaq ke ba'd 8-veN kee farmaa,ish karne
waale shaayad 2-3 dost haiN! baaqee Khaamoshee hai. meraa yaqeen hai
keh yehee kuchh yahaaN bhee pesh aaYe gaa! yahaaN to Urdu waale aur
bhee kam haiN. jab maiN yahaaN English ko Haawee dekhtaa hooN to is
nateejeh par poNhachne par Khud ko majjboor paataa hooN. so aap hee
farmaaYeN keh kyaa kiyaa jaaYe!
meree Zaatee raaYe yooN hai:
(a) a'rooZ^ ko f.ilwaqt multawee kar deN aur doosree tajaaweez ko
chalaaYeN. jab woh chal nikleN to is jaanib tawajjuh kee jaa saktee
hai. is dauraan meN agar koyee dost Anjuman ke maZ^aameen ko Roman meN
muntaqil kar ke mujh ko naz^ar-e-caanee ke liYe bhej sake to mustaqbil
meN kaam bohat aasaan ho jaaYe gaa. mujh ko Khud yeh kaam karne meN
kaafeee waqt lag saktaa hai.
(b) yeh sawaal bhee sab dost Khud se poochheN keh :kyaa a'rooZ^ kee
waaqa,e'e Z^aroorat hai?: kuchh eHbaab kaa Khayaal hai (aur b.ilkul
Ghalat^ hai!) keh yeh kaam 1-2 kee gardaan se liyaa jaa saktaa hai.
agar beshtar eHbaab un se muttafiq haiN to phir inheeN meN se koyaa
saaHeb/ah aage baRheN aur 1-2 gardaan ko tafSeel se bayaan farmaaYeN.
ham un ke mamnoon hoN ge.
Khat^ t^aweel ho gayaa. ma'Zirat!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwr:
سرور عالم راز سرور
Naseer
agar ALUP par kisii shaa'ir/ah kaa kalaam pesh karne se pahle yih
laazimii hotaa kih kalaam pesh karne vaalaa us shaa'ir ke tamaam-tar
kalaam se ba-KHuubii vaaqif ho to bahut hii kam log ALUP meN Hissah
lete! aap pahle ek shaa'irah kaa intiKHaab kareN. us kii ek aadh
Ghazal yaa nazm pesh kareN awr duusroN ko apnii laRii meN baHs/izaafah
karne kii da'vat deN to mujhe yaqiin hai kih yih silsilah phal-phool
(awr phail:)) saktaa hai. is ke do-chaar haftoN ke ba'd aap ek awr
KHaatuun shaa'irah ko chun kar yahii tariiqah-i-kaar apnaa saktii haiN
awr yuuN hii tiisirri shaa'irah kii jaanib apnaa ruKH kar saktii
haiN.
maiN ne Zoya Sahiba kaa bhii zikr kiyaa hai. yih bhii mumkin hai kih
aap ek shaa'irah se shuruu'aat kareN awr phir Zoya Sahiba apnii pasand
kii kisii shaa'irah ko mauzuu'-i-suKHan banaa leN.
ko'ii tariiqah aazmaa kar to dekhiye!:)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Zuhra
> agar ALUP par kisii shaa'ir/ah kaa kalaam pesh karne se pahle yih
> laazimii hotaa kih kalaam pesh karne vaalaa us shaa'ir ke tamaam-tar
> kalaam se ba-KHuubii vaaqif ho to bahut hii kam log ALUP meN Hissah
> lete! aap pahle ek shaa'irah kaa intiKHaab kareN. us kii ek aadh
> Ghazal yaa nazm pesh kareN awr duusroN ko apnii laRii meN baHs/izaafah
> karne kii da'vat deN to mujhe yaqiin hai kih yih silsilah phal-phool
> (awr phail:)) saktaa hai. is ke do-chaar haftoN ke ba'd aap ek awr
> KHaatuun shaa'irah ko chun kar yahii tariiqah-i-kaar apnaa saktii haiN
> awr yuuN hii tiisirri shaa'irah kii jaanib apnaa ruKH kar saktii
> haiN.
>
Naseer saahab, aap ne Theek farmayaa. maiN SIRF yeh arz karna chaah
rahi thii ke maiN ne aksar Khawaateen shoaraa k kalaam ko bas sarsari
idhar-udhar se thoRa bohat sunn yaa paRh rakha hai, aur (sawaae
Parveen Shakir ke) kisi kii bhi koi kitaab mere paas nahi hai to iss
soorat-e-haal meN post karooN bhi to kyaa! Khair, in sab baatoN ke
bawjood mujhe jo bhii in shaairaat kii GhazaleN (poori/adhoori)
dasteyaab haiN woh ALUP par pesh karne kii koshish karooN gi.
> maiN ne Zoya Sahiba kaa bhii zikr kiyaa hai. yih bhii mumkin hai kih
> aap ek shaa'irah se shuruu'aat kareN awr phir Zoya Sahiba apnii pasand
> kii kisii shaa'irah ko mauzuu'-i-suKHan banaa leN.
vaise maiN hairaan ho rahi thii k aap ne yahan sirf mera aur Zoya
saaheba kaa zikr kiyoN kiya hai jabke ham sab jaante haiN k kisi
shaaira kaa kalaam post karne ke liye Khaatoon hona zaroori nahi hota,
koi bhii ye naik kaam kar sakta hai ! :)
Zuhra
Naseer
On Sep 24, 3:03 am, Zuhra <venus_...@live.com> wrote:
> vaise maiN hairaan ho rahi thii k aap ne yahan sirf mera aur Zoya
> saaheba kaa zikr kiyoN kiya hai jabke ham sab jaante haiN k kisi
> shaaira kaa kalaam post karne ke liye Khaatoon hona zaroori nahi hota,
> koi bhii ye naik kaam kar sakta hai ! :)
mujhe Dar thaa kih aap, Zoya Sahib yaa ko'ii awr yahii savaal puuchhe
gaa! bha'ii is meN Hairaanii kii kyaa baat hai? Haal hii meN aap ne ek
laRii meN mujh se KHavaatiin shu'araa kaa kalaam pesh karne kii
farmaa'ish kii thii. maiN ne is se yih natiijah aKHaz kiyaa hai kih
aap is mauzuu' se dil-chaspii rakhtii haiN, lihaazaa aap se maiN ne
farmaa'ish kar dii!:)
jahaaN tak Zoya Sahiba kaa ta'alluq hai, unheN bhii KHavaatiin kii
shaa'irii se raGhbat hai. mujhe yaad hai kih unhoN ne 2006 meN ek
laRii ba-naam "Female Urdu poets writing in masculine gender" kaa
aaGhaaz kiyaa thaa.
is se pahle, 2005 meN unhoN ne "kash-makash by Nikhat Naseem
badayuni" naamii laRii shuruu' kii thii jis meN unhoN ne ek KHaas
"Female perspective" kaa zikr kiyaa thaa.
is se zaahir hotaa hai kih Zoya Sahiba ko bhii is mauzuu' se KHaasii
dil-chaspii hai. chuuNkih maiN chaah rahaa thaa kih ALUP ke kaarvaaN
ko chalaane ke liye agar baa-qaa'idagii se Haazir hone vaale kuchh
dost apnii apnii istitaa'at ke mutaabiq kuchh nah kuchh pesh karte
raheN, to yih kaarvaaN aage baRhtaa rahe gaa. vaise, is meN ko'ii jabr
kaa taqaazah bhii nahiiN balkih merii taraf se ek mu'addabaanah
guzaarish thii. agar ham logoN ne aapas meN mil kar kuchh kaam nah
kiyaa to 'ain mumkin hai kih aksar log jo is vaqt is kaarvaaN meN
shaamil haiN, kahiiN munaasib maqaam par is se alag ho kar apnii apnii
raah le leN ge!
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Naseer
On Sep 23, 4:25 am, Raz <sarwar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> bandah-nawaazee ke liYe saraapaa sipaas hooN. aap ne a'rooZ^ ke
> Hawaaleh se jo kuchh likhaa hai woh bajaa hai lekin :
>
> is meN do chaar bohat saKht maqaam aate haiN!
>
> is ijmaal kee tafSeel kuchh yooN hai:
>
> (1) ALUP meN bohat muddat huyee jo maZ^aameen maiN ne :Nikaat-e-
> Sukhan: ke u'nwaan se pesh kiYe the (aur jo ab bhee meree :site:www.sarwarraz.compar maujood haiN) sab :maaNge kaa ujaalaa: the
> ya'nee un meN meree apnee girah kaa kuchh nah thaa.www.urduanjuman.com
> par maZ^aameen ke jo asbaaq pesh kar rahaa hooN woh bhee tamaam-o-
> kamaal kitaaboN se istifaadeh ke ba'd hee likhe jaa rahe haiN. is
> mauZ^oo' par yehee kuchh ho saktaa hai. z^aahir hai keh is meN
> ijtihaad-o-iKhtiraa' mumkin naheeN hai. so maiN ne in asbaaq meN apne
> paRhe huwe ko aasaan aur a'am fehm zabaan meN likhne kee koshish kee
> hai. jab yeh kaam mukammal ho gaa to asbaaq kee ta'daad kam-o-besh 20
> ho gee, inshaa Allah!
Sarwar Sahib, merii Haqiir raa'e meN ham meN se ko'ii bhii yih
tavaqqu' rakhe hu'e nahiiN hai kih aap apne asbaaq meN "ijtihaad-o-
iKHtiraa'" laa'eN ge. aksar log 'ilm-i-'uruuz ke bunyaadii usuull
seekhne ke KHvaahish-mand hoN ge. yaqiin-an jaa-ba-jaa aap kuchh aisii
baatoN kaa bhii zikr kareN ge jo qudaamaa' ke nazdiik to shaayad
jaa'iz nahiiN thiiN lekin chand shu'araa' ne in ke bar-'aks ijadiid
tajribe kiye haiN, masal-an "siin awr swaad kii qaafiyah-bandii.
> (2) Urdu Anjuman ke maZ^aameen Urdu rasm-e-Khat^ meN haiN kyoN.k Urdu
> chaupaal meN Urdu kaa hee jawaaz bantaa hai. Roman hamaaree majbooree
> hai, tarjeeH naheeN. is kaa laazimee nateejah yeh huwaa hai keh woh
> dost in maZ^aameen se istifaadah naheeN kar sakte haiN jo Urdu se
> muHabbat to karte haiN lekin us ke rasm-e-Khat^ se waaqif naheeN haiN.
> in maZ^aameen ko Roman meN muntaqil kar ke yahaaN lagaanaa jo waqt aur
> meHnat chaahataa hai woh mujh ko mushkil se hee mayassar aa saktaa
> hai. kaam hazaar haiN aur kaam karne waale ma'doode chand! aaj kal har
> chaupaal par Urdu likhee jaa saktee hai lekin ALUP par mas,alah Urdu
> paRhne waaloN kaa ho gaa. so maZ^aameen kaa Roman meN dobaarah likhnaa
> Z^arooree huwaa aur us kee mushkilaat ma'loom! aap hee, yaa koyee aur
> dost, is kaa Hal tajweez kareN to kaam shaayad ho jaaYe.
agar aap ALUP meN Urdu rasm-i-KHat meN asbaaq chaspaaN kar sakte haiN
to aap pahle sirf pahlaa sabaq hii pesh kareN. Insha Allah, maiN use
Roman meN muntaqil kar duuN gaa. agar sabaq KHaasah taviil hai to phir
aap use do yaa tiin HissoN meN bhej sakte haiN. is ke ba'd (ummiid hai
kih) is sabaq par log baat chiit kareN ge, aap se savaal puucheN ge
awr isii tarH mumkin hai kih do tiin hafte guzar jaa'eN. phir aap
'alaa haazaa_lqiyaas duusre sabaq kaa ta'aaruf karaa sakte haiN.
mumkin hai diigar dost Roman likhne meN merii madad ko aa jaa'eN!
> (3) jaisaa keh aap aur sab dost jaante haiN, i'lm-e-a'rooZ^ Arabee
> eejaad hai. phir Iran meN is meN tarmeem-o-ijtihaad kiyaa gayaa. ba'd
> meN is ke beshtar uSool Urdu meN le liYe gaYe lekin chooN.k Urdu meN
> maqaamee zabaaneN bhee jaZb haiN is liYe us kee Sarf-o-NaHv (grammar)
> bhee bohat uljhee huyee aur pecheedah hai. Maulvee Abdul Haq ne apnee
> kitaab Urdu Sarf-o-NaHv meN in nazaakatoN kaa ba-Khoobee iHaat^ah
> kiyaa hai. is pecheedagee ke pesh-e-naz^ar i'lm-e-a'rooZ^ ke qawaaneen
> ko Urdu shaa,i'ree ke liYe jaa-bajaa badlaa gayaa hai aur asaatiZah ne
> Haalaat se maSaaliHat (adjustments) kee hai. a'rooZ^ ko Roman meN is
> t^araH likhnaa keh saaree baateN aur rumooz Saaf Saaf bayaan ho jaaYeN
> nihaayat hee diqqat-t^alab kaam hai.
>
> sab se pehle to ham ko kisee ek Roman kitaabat ke niz^aam ko apnaanaa
> ho gaa (maiN ne apne hee murattab kiYe huwe niz^aam ko ista'maal kiyaa
> hai) aur us ke ba'd jahaaN kaheeN mat^lab kee adaa,igee meN mushkil ho
> wahaaN (Zailee t^aur par hee sahee) Urdu likhnee ho gee. kyaa is
> Soorat meN yeh silsilah qaabil-e-qubool yaa qaabil-e-fehm ho gaa? is
> kaa jawaab ALUP waale hee de sakte haiN.
aap in "zailii" baatoN ko apnii Roman tarz meN likh diikiye gaa. ho
saktaa hai kih maiN aap kii baat Thiik tarH nah samajh paayaa huuN
lekiN jab ham aise maqaam par pahuNche ge to mujhe yaqiin hai kih ham
mil-jul kar ko'ii nah ko'ii Hal DhuuNd leN ge.
> (4) meraa tajribah hai keh aise mushkil aur Khushk mauZ^oo' se log
> bohat jald uktaa jaate haiN aur thoRe hee dinoN meN is kee jaanib
> shaayad hee koyee dekhtaa hai. mujh ko aaj Anjuman meN isee mushkil
> kaa saamnaa hai keh saat (7) asbaaq ke ba'd 8-veN kee farmaa,ish karne
> waale shaayad 2-3 dost haiN! baaqee Khaamoshee hai. meraa yaqeen hai
> keh yehee kuchh yahaaN bhee pesh aaYe gaa! yahaaN to Urdu waale aur
> bhee kam haiN. jab maiN yahaaN English ko Haawee dekhtaa hooN to is
> nateejeh par poNhachne par Khud ko majjboor paataa hooN. so aap hee
> farmaaYeN keh kyaa kiyaa jaaYe!
is meN ko'ii shak nahiiN kih yih mauzuu' aksar logoN ke liye bahut hii
KHushk saabit ho gaa. lekin is ke baa-vujuud jis jis ko yih hunar
siikhnaa hai, vuh zaruur dil-chaspii le gaa. agar paNch-chhe afraad
bhii is mashq meN shirkat karte raheN, to tab bhii aap kii miHnat
raa'egaaN nahiiN jaa'e gii.awr ham sab aap ke tah-i-dil se mamnuun-o-
mashkuur hoN ge.
> meree Zaatee raaYe yooN hai:
>
> (a) a'rooZ^ ko f.ilwaqt multawee kar deN aur doosree tajaaweez ko
> chalaaYeN. jab woh chal nikleN to is jaanib tawajjuh kee jaa saktee
> hai. is dauraan meN agar koyee dost Anjuman ke maZ^aameen ko Roman meN
> muntaqil kar ke mujh ko naz^ar-e-caanee ke liYe bhej sake to mustaqbil
> meN kaam bohat aasaan ho jaaYe gaa. mujh ko Khud yeh kaam karne meN
> kaafeee waqt lag saktaa hai.
Urdu kii zarbu_lmasal hai "aaj kaa kaam kal par mat chhoRo"!:)
> (b) yeh sawaal bhee sab dost Khud se poochheN keh :kyaa a'rooZ^ kee
> waaqa,e'e Z^aroorat hai?: kuchh eHbaab kaa Khayaal hai (aur b.ilkul
> Ghalat^ hai!) keh yeh kaam 1-2 kee gardaan se liyaa jaa saktaa hai.
> agar beshtar eHbaab un se muttafiq haiN to phir inheeN meN se koyaa
> saaHeb/ah aage baRheN aur 1-2 gardaan ko tafSeel se bayaan farmaaYeN.
> ham un ke mamnoon hoN ge.
kuchh logoN ne to is mauzuu' kii i'laaniyah taur pih taa'iid kii hai.
magar bahut se aise bhii hoN ge, jo KHaamoshii to iKHtiyaar kiye
baiThe haiN, lekin dil-chaspii zaruur rakhte hoN ge! lekin, sab se
aham baat yih hai Sarwar Sahib, kih agar hameN aap apne 'ilm-o-hunar
se sharf-yaab karne kaa faisalah kar leN to hameN aap se mulaaqaat
karne kaa baar baar mauqa' mile gaa. hameN awr kuchh Haasil ho nah ho,
aap kii suHbat to mayassar ho gii nah?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Raz
> mukarramii janaab-i-Sarwar Sahib, tasliimaat.
>
> On Sep 23, 4:25 am, Raz <sarwar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > bandah-nawaazee ke liYe saraapaa sipaas hooN. aap ne a'rooZ^ ke
> > Hawaaleh se jo kuchh likhaa hai woh bajaa hai lekin :
>
> > is meN do chaar bohat saKht maqaam aate haiN!
>
> > is ijmaal kee tafSeel kuchh yooN hai:
>
> > (1) ALUP meN bohat muddat huyee jo maZ^aameen maiN ne :Nikaat-e-
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
muHibbee Naseer SaaHeb: aadaab-o-tasleemaat!
aap ke Husn-e-z^an ke liYe mamnoon-o-mutashakkir hooN. aap ALUP ke
liYe jis KhulooS-o-muHabbat se kaam kar rahe haiN us kaa taqaaZ^aa hai
keh a'rooZ^ par guftgoo ko Khush-anjaam banaayaa jaaYe. maiN is
Khidmat ke liYe tai,yyaar hooN. aaj kal Urdu Anjuman ke liYe Sabaq-8
likhne meN maSroof hooN jo bajaaYe Khud baRaa kaam hai. us se faariGh
hote hee maiN is silsileh kee pehlee qist^ munaasib tarmeem ke saath
yahaaN lagaa dooN gaa. is meN kuchh waqt lag saktaa hai. so buzurg
kehte haiN keh :Sabr kaa phal meeThaa:! aap ko yaad-dehaanee kee
Z^aroorat naheeN ho gee, inshaa Allah. us waqt tak aap apnee tajaaweez
meN se kisee aur par kaam shuroo' kar deejiYe. maiN bhee Hasb-e-
maqdarat shirkat karooN gaa.
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Vijay
Naseer sahib:
I had read your post a while back and like others, would like to
commend you for your untiring efforts to keep the (sometime
flickering) candle of ALUP going. I must say, however, that it seems
on occasion that you try too hard:-) Be as it may I am also impressed
with your suggestions and to-day, am posting in a separate thread a
she'r, the proper understanding of which has always eluded me.
Best,
Vijay
Naseer
>
> - Show quoted text -
janaab-i-Vijay Sahib, aadaab.
"Trying too hard" is unfortunately, one of my many many faults!:) As
the old saying goes, "If you don't ask, you don't get". I have asked
and there has already been a very positive response. It can't be bad!
Thank you for a new thread on a shi'r for which you are seeking
ALUPers' views on its significance. However, I had thought of asking
you to start, possibly, "a food series", may be begining with "aj ke
pakaaiye"! I know this is a Punjabi nazm, but it would n't need much
"translation", more a "conversion". What do you think?
Naseer
Vijay
Naseer sahib, aap ko is baat pe yaqiin karne meN koii Khaas mushkil
nahiiN hogii ki aap kii 'food' par aik laRi waali tajwiiz paRhte hii,
mere zehn meN bhii yak laKht 'ajj kii pakaaiie' naz'm hii aii thii.
aur us ke ain aik lamhe baad (chuuN kih yeh Panjabi kii naz'm hai),
'voh jo doodh shehad kii khiir thi'; Anwar Masuud hii kii aik aur
naz'm!
Khair, mujhe koii ziaadah urduu sha'irii is mauzuu par yaad nahiiN aa
rahii is waq't. 'aam (mango) kii soch zaruur z'ehn me|N ubharii thii.
lekin 'aam kaa murabba' to aap ne pehle hii bana Dalaa hai:-) to agar
aap ijaazat deN to is unwaan ko kisii aur meharbaan ALUPer ar chooRte
haiN.'
Regards,
Vijay
Manohar
Wah Naseer Sahab. I am now clear about it. I really could not
understand what the poet was trying to say. Shokran Jazeelan.
M
Raz
mukarramee Naseer SaaHeb aur ahl-e-ALUP: aadaab!
yahaaN Urdu Arooz kee baat huyee thee. Haal hee meN mujh ko :net: par
teen maqaamaat se aagaahee huyee jahaaN yeh ma'loomaat dastyaab haiN.
Links likh rahaa hooN. is ke ba'd mujh ko Z^arooree naheeN ma'loom
hotaa keh maiN apne maZ^aameen yahaaN pesh karooN. shurkiyah!
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
http://www.geocities.com/roshbaby/prosody/basics.html
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/meterbk/00_intro.html
http://columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/oourduhindilinks/pybus/pybus.html
Naseer
muHtaramii-o-mukarramii janaab-i-Sarwar Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat.
aap ne apne pichhle KHat meN sabr ke miiThe phal kaa zikr kiyaa thaa.
usii phal ke intizaar meN ham baRe sabr se kaam lete hu'e, siinoN meN
baRii tavaqqu'aat paale hu'e awr raahoN meN baiThe hu'e the kih kab
hamaare ustaad-i-muHtaram kaa shiiriiN mevah chakhne ko mile gaa!. ab
aap ne jo tiin ravaabit pesh kiye haiN, yih yaqiin-an aap ke jiite-
jaagte awr diloN ko moh lene vaale asbaaq se muqaabalah to nahiiN kar
sakte. ba-qaul DaaGh
Ghazab kiyaa tere va'de pih i'tibaar kiyaa
tamaam raat qiyaamat kaa intizaar kiyaa
yaa ba-qaul Faiz..
yih daaGh daaGh ujaalaa, yih shab-gaziidah saHar
vuh intizaar thaa jis kaa yih vuh saHar to nahiiN
so, Sarwar Sahib, agar aap apnii masruufiyat kii binaa par majbuur
nahiiN haiN to az raah-i-karam, hamaare liye apne taKHliiq-kardah
asbaaq pesh kiijiye. aap ko is amr kaa i'tiraaf karnaa paRe gaa kih jo
"baat "ek ijtimaa'ii guftuguu" ke zarii'e paidaa ho saktii hai vuh
samaaN yih links paidaa nahiiN kar sakte.
ba-har Haal, agar aap kaa yih aaKHirii faisalah hai, to kyaa aap hameN
bataa sakte haiN kih aap ke nazdiik in tiinoN links meN se kaun-saa
link sab se ziyaadah mufiid saabit ho saktaa hai?
shukr-guzaar,
Naseer
Sarwar A. Raz
>
> muHtaramii-o-mukarramii janaab-i-Sarwar Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat.
>
> aap ne apne pichhle KHat meN sabr ke miiThe phal kaa zikr kiyaa thaa.
> usii phal ke intizaar meN ham baRe sabr se kaam lete hu'e, siinoN meN
> baRii tavaqqu'aat paale hu'e awr raahoN meN baiThe hu'e the kih kab
> hamaare ustaad-i-muHtaram kaa shiiriiN mevah chakhne ko mile gaa!. ab
> aap ne jo tiin ravaabit pesh kiye haiN, yih yaqiin-an aap ke jiite-
> jaagte awr diloN ko moh lene vaale asbaaq se muqaabalah to nahiiN kar
> sakte. ba-qaul DaaGh
>
> Ghazab kiyaa tere va'de pih i'tibaar kiyaa
> tamaam raat qiyaamat kaa intizaar kiyaa
>
> yaa ba-qaul Faiz..
>
> yih daaGh daaGh ujaalaa, yih shab-gaziidah saHar
> vuh intizaar thaa jis kaa yih vuh saHar to nahiiN
>
> so, Sarwar Sahib, agar aap apnii masruufiyat kii binaa par majbuur
> nahiiN haiN to az raah-i-karam, hamaare liye apne taKHliiq-kardah
> asbaaq pesh kiijiye. aap ko is amr kaa i'tiraaf karnaa paRe gaa kih jo
> "baat "ek ijtimaa'ii guftuguu" ke zarii'e paidaa ho saktii hai vuh
> samaaN yih links paidaa nahiiN kar sakte.
>
> ba-har Haal, agar aap kaa yih aaKHirii faisalah hai, to kyaa aap hameN
> bataa sakte haiN kih aap ke nazdiik in tiinoN links meN se kaun-saa
> link sab se ziyaadah mufiid saabit ho saktaa hai?
>
> shukr-guzaar,
>
> - Show quoted text -
maiN to soch rahaa thaa keh in :links: se aap kee tashaffee ho jaaYe
gee! lekin aisaa nah huwaa. so koyee Hairat kaa maqaam naheeN hai.
maiN ne in :links: ko dekhaa aur maiN in ke :pech-o-Kham: meN ulajh
kar reh gayaa. is liYe yeh to kehne se qaaSir hooN keh in meN se
behtar kaun saa hai. albattah chooN.k maiN www.urduanjuman.com par
sabaq #8 se faariGh ho chukaa hooN to ab yahaaN ke liYe :masaalah:
jama' kartaa hooN. baat yeh hei keh Urdu Anjuman ke maZ^aameen ek
KhaaS :audience: ke liYe ek maKhSooS andaaz meN likhe gaYe haiN jo
ALUP ke liYe mere nazdeek tarmeem-o-tanseeKh kaa mutaqaaZ^ee hai.
lekin kaam to ab karnaa hee hai. so bismillah kar dee hai. aage
(jaisaa keh hamaaree a'adat bechaaragee meN kehne kee paR gayee hai!)
Allah maalik hai! jald hee pehlee qist^ pesh karooN gaa. anjaam jo ho
gaa us ko aap aur maiN donoN dekh hee leN ge!
aur haaN qiblah! yeh jo aap ne mere naam ke saath :ustaaed: kaa :pun-
chhallaa: lagaa diyaa hai is se mujh Ghareeb ko mu,a'af hee rakkheN!
maiN to asaatiZah kaa Khoshah-cheen hooN aur ustaadee kee boo bhee
mere paas se naheeN guzree hai! shukriyah! jald hee HaaZ^ir hooN gaa.
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Sarwar A. Raz
>
> muHtaramii-o-mukarramii janaab-i-Sarwar Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat.
>
> aap ne apne pichhle KHat meN sabr ke miiThe phal kaa zikr kiyaa thaa.
> usii phal ke intizaar meN ham baRe sabr se kaam lete hu'e, siinoN meN
> baRii tavaqqu'aat paale hu'e awr raahoN meN baiThe hu'e the kih kab
> hamaare ustaad-i-muHtaram kaa shiiriiN mevah chakhne ko mile gaa!. ab
> aap ne jo tiin ravaabit pesh kiye haiN, yih yaqiin-an aap ke jiite-
> jaagte awr diloN ko moh lene vaale asbaaq se muqaabalah to nahiiN kar
> sakte. ba-qaul DaaGh
>
> Ghazab kiyaa tere va'de pih i'tibaar kiyaa
> tamaam raat qiyaamat kaa intizaar kiyaa
>
> yaa ba-qaul Faiz..
>
> yih daaGh daaGh ujaalaa, yih shab-gaziidah saHar
> vuh intizaar thaa jis kaa yih vuh saHar to nahiiN
>
> so, Sarwar Sahib, agar aap apnii masruufiyat kii binaa par majbuur
> nahiiN haiN to az raah-i-karam, hamaare liye apne taKHliiq-kardah
> asbaaq pesh kiijiye. aap ko is amr kaa i'tiraaf karnaa paRe gaa kih jo
> "baat "ek ijtimaa'ii guftuguu" ke zarii'e paidaa ho saktii hai vuh
> samaaN yih links paidaa nahiiN kar sakte.
>
> ba-har Haal, agar aap kaa yih aaKHirii faisalah hai, to kyaa aap hameN
> bataa sakte haiN kih aap ke nazdiik in tiinoN links meN se kaun-saa
> link sab se ziyaadah mufiid saabit ho saktaa hai?
>
> shukr-guzaar,
>
> - Show quoted text -
mukarramee Naseer SaaHeb: aadaab!
apnaa pichhlaa Khat^ likhne ke ba'd hee maiN ne apne maZ^aameen kee
pehlee qist^ ko Roman Urdu meN muntaqil kane kee koshish kee aur naa-
qaabil-e-Hal mushkilaat meN giriftaar ho gayaa! agar aap apnaa :email
address: mujh ko sarw...@yahoo.com par bhej deN (meraa pc :crash: ho
gayaa thaa aur meraa Khayaal hai keh aap kaa patah gum ho gayaa hai)
to maiN Urdu meN pehlee qist^ aap ko bhej dooN. phir aap hee dekh kar
is kaa koyee Hal bataa,iYe to kaam aage baRhe. meraa Khayaal hai keh
yeh mumkin naheeN hai. maiN aap ke e-mail kaa intiz^aar karooN gaa.
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
v
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear all
while some of the mails here are in English the others are in Urdu
written in english. While if a few lines of such Urdu are interspersed
in the mail it adds to the readability - but when the entire mail is
in Urdu written in english, after 5 six lines your mind gives up
(though believe me, the heart wants to read). and some of the learned
members write very long mails (urdu in english).
can i make a request - that please write your (i.e. the members own)
views in english and use urdu written in english only when a couplet
or nazm has to be illustrated. it would really add 'four moons' to
this group.
otherwise all the 'tajaaveez' (I hope I got that write) by Naseeb
saahab find my hearty commendation and I shall be a willing
participant in each one of his suggestions - even if it be as an avid
reader.
Hope to see the no of Urdu lovers on this group grow 'twice daily and
four times in the night'.
Regards
Ravi
deedawar
>
> - Show quoted text -
My sentiments exactly. :-)
farah
Naseer
janaab-i-Ravi Sahib awr muHtaramah Farah Sahiba, aadaab.
There is a school of thought that since this is an URDU poetry
Newsgroup, it is only logical that the language used by its
participants be Urdu. After all, if it were French, would the French
speaking and writing people write their posts in, say German? No, of
course not. We Urdu-waalas are at some disadvantage in that Urdu
system of writing is not available to all of us. For this very reason
we are obliged to write in what is universally termed as "Roman Urdu".
In ALUP, to the best of my knowledge, there are three revered
personalities who, almost invariably, write in Urdu; janaab-i-Raj
Kumar Sahib, janaab-i-Sarwar Sahib and janaab-i-Zafar Sahib. I truly
admire their efforts since, to a person not used to typing Roman Urdu,
this is no mean feat. I do my best to reply in Urdu to these
gentlemen's posts. The rest of us mainly write in English and now and
again, when the batteries are fully charged, we write the odd
paragraph in Roman Urdu.
Having said all this, I do understand the fact that if you are not
used to reading Roman Urdu, it must be a bit of a strain on the old
(?) eyes!:) Here, Farah Sahiba, I am not refering to you but to Ravi
Sahib:):) A bit of practice will no doubt ease this difficulty. By the
way Ravi Sahib, if I had spent 15 years learning scripts, I would have
learnt half of all of India's scripts in this period...at least if not
more!!!:):)
The following thread (posts 5 and 6) adds a little more to this
discussion.This contains Sarwar Sahib's views on this topic and my
humble reply.
By the way, jo baat chaar chaaNd lagne meN hai vuh four moons meN
kahaaN!
> otherwise all the 'tajaaveez' (I hope I got that write) by Naseeb
> saahab find my hearty commendation and I shall be a willing
> participant in each one of his suggestions - even if it be as an avid
> reader.
aap ne achchaa kiyaa kih mujhe meraa aslii naam bataa diyaa. maiN to
hameshah apne aap ko Naseer hii samajhtaa chalaa aayaa huuN!:)
> Hope to see the no of Urdu lovers on this group grow 'twice daily and
> four times in the night'.
>
> Regards
>
> Ravi
bha'ii, din dugnii raat chaugunii is not twice and four times but
three-fold and four-fold!:)
Best Wishes,
Naseer
Vijay
> bha'ii, din dugnii raat chaugunii is not twice and four times but
> three-fold and four-fold!:)
>
> Best Wishes,
> Naseer
Naseer sahib, I can't explain how you came to translate 'dugganii' as
'three fold'. Most likely a typo or temporary synaptic fade:-)
'dugganii' is a derivative of 'do gunaa', literally 'times two'
expressed in Panjabi in the feminine gender.
Regards,
Vijay
Naseer
> > bha'ii, din dugnii raat chaugunii is not twice and four times but
> > three-fold and four-fold!:)
>
> > Best Wishes,
> > Naseer
>
> Naseer sahib, I can't explain how you came to translate 'dugganii' as
> 'three fold'. Most likely a typo or temporary synaptic fade:-)
>
Vijay Sahib, aadaab.
Yes, the latter.
Naseer