taviil Ghazal: "husn ko jab koii..."

Irfan Abid

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Jun 1, 2020, 11:15:46 PM6/1/20

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aadaab, dosto!

aaj aap ke liye ek aisii taKhliiq le kar haazir huaa huuN, jo haftoN aur mahiinoN nahiiN, balki saaloN meN mukammal huii. dar-asl huaa yuuN ki kayii saal qabl ek zamiin zihn meN aayii aur us meN chand ash’aar ho gaye. maiN ne hasb-e-ma’muul vuh ash’aar bayaaz meN raqam kar ke nazar-e-saanii ke liye chhoR diye. un ash’aar par dobaara Ghaur karne ke liye jab maiN lauTaa to kuchh aur ash’aar ho gaye. yih silsilaa chaltaa rahaa aur jab Khatm huaa to kul 61 ash’aar par mushtamil ek Ghazal tayyaar thii. ash’aar to aur bhii huey the, lekin vuh maiN Ghazal meN shaamil nahiiN kar rahaa huuN. yih zamiin aisii zarKhez hai ki agar maiN kuchh aur vaqt detaa to shaayad chand ash’aar aur ho sakte the. lekin maiN ab aur intizaar nahiiN karnaa chaahtaa, aur is kaavish ko aap ke saamne pesh karnaa chaahtaa huuN.

pehle meraa Khayaal thaa ki is Ghazal ko qistoN meN pesh karuuN taaki qaara’iin ke liye ise jazb karnaa aasaan ho jaaye. lekin diqqat yih thiii ki is tarah se Ghazal bikhar jaatii. aaKhir meN yih tai paayaa ki tamaam ash’aar ek saath chaspaaN kar diye jaayeN. albatta aap yih Ghazal qistoN meN paRh sakte haiN, aur qistoN hii meN apnii raae bhii de sakte haiN. lekin raae diijiyegaa zaruur. mujhe intizaar rahegaa. aap kii sahuulat ke liye maiN ne ash’aar ke aa’daad raqam kar diye haiN.

Ghazal

1. husn ko jab koii parde meN chhupaa detaa hai
ba.Khudaa us kii kashish aur baRhaa detaa hai

2. ishq parde ko baharhaal uThaa detaa hai
jalva-e-husn vuh aashiq ko dikhaa detaa hai

3. husn vuh zahr hai jo mai kaa nashaa detaa hai
maut kii niiNd meN aashiq ko sulaa detaa hai

4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai

5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai

6. pesh-qadmii pe vuh but hosh uRaa detaa hai
piichhe muRtaa huuN to patthar kaa banaa detaa hai!

7. deed-e-jaanaaN ne to vuh haal kiyaa hai jaise
koii jaaduu kii chhaRii sar pe phiraa detaa hai

8. aasmaanoN pe daraKhsaaN haiN jo maah-o-anjum
us kaa hii nuur hai jo in ko ziyaa detaa hai

9. us ke daaman kii havaa meN vuhii mahsuus huaa
jo sukuuN vaqt-e-sahar lams-e-sabaa detaa hai

10. pehle kar detaa hai aamaadah jabiiN.bosii par
aur phir mujh ko vuh ilzaam-e-Khataa detaa hai!

11. jurm-e-ulfat kaa lab iqraar kareN yaa na kareN
meraa chihraa mire sab raaz bataa detaa hai

12. us ko phir apne hii dil par nahiiN rehtaa qaabu
gosha-e-dil meN kisii ko jo basaa detaa hai

13. sahn-e-gulshan kii talab kuchh nahiiN deevaanoN ko
vast-e-sahraa meN junuuN phuul khilaa detaa hai

14. apnii besuud tag-o-dau se yih maaluum huaa
aadmii shauq meN Khud ko bhii bhulaa detaa hai

15. raat kuchh aise guzartii hai ki yaadoN kaa bhanvar
ek aashob sar-e-shaam uThaa detaa hai

16. tujh ko ai shab ke andhere! yih Khabar bhii hai ki tuu
kitne soye hue fitnoN ko jagaa detaa hai?

17. aise Khvaabiidah hue, ghar hii luTaa baiThe ham
dekhiye ab hameN kyaa Khvaab-e-vafaa detaa hai

18. ek tujh hii se yih taqsiir huii ho to kahuuN
kaun dunyaa meN vafaaoN kaa silaa detaa hai!

19. baad.az.tark-e-ta’alluq bhii dil-e-deevaanaa
sham’a-e-ummiid nayii roz jalaa detaa hai

20. bhiigii shaamoN kii qasam, chaltii hai jab purvaaii
dil kaa har zaKhm tujhe dil se duaa detaa hai!

21. kitnaa zarKhez hai tanhayii kaa jangal, mat puuchh
pal meN sau Khaar KhayaaloN ke ugaa detaa hai

22. jab bhii aataa hai mire dil meN Khayaal-e-maazii
ik na ik dard kaa afsaana sunaa detaa hai

23. tujh se ai deeda-e-tar! hashr meN luuNgaa maiN hisaab
jo mire Khuun ko paanii saa bahaa detaa hai

24. us kii palkoN ko kabhii tar nahiiN dekhaa ham ne
jaagte hii jo tamannaa ko sulaa detaa hai

25. dil ko hotaa hai kahaaN tajriba-e-gesuu-e-yaar
baKht jab kaakul-e-giitii meN phaNsaa detaa hai

26. raah-e-dunyaa meN to yih bhii hai maqaam-e-hairat
koii do gaam agar saath nibhaa detaa hai

27. aqrabaa chhoR gaye saath to Gham kyaa karnaa
mushkil aa jaaye to saayaa bhii daGhaa detaa hai

28. maiN ne kyaa kyaa na sahaa rah ke ujaaloN meN, na puuchh
ab to saayaa bhii miraa mujh ko Daraa detaa hai

29. pur-Khuluus us kii itaa’at ko na samjho hargiz
dar pe har ek ke jo sar ko jhukaa detaa hai

30. raah-rau chalte haiN peechhe, hoN nashe meN jaise
raahbar! tuu inheN kyaa chiiz pilaa detaa hai?

31. kis tarah mujh ko milegii mirii manzil aaKhir
jab ki rahbar hii mujhe raah bhulaa detaa hai

32. rah.rau-e-shauq! zaraa raah kii jaanib to dekh
zarra zarra tujhe manzil kaa pataa detaa hai

33. ik nigahbaan samajhte haiN jise ahl-e-chaman
kyoN vuhii aag guilstaaN ko lagaa detaa hai

34. log us shaKhs ko kahte haiN masiihaa apnaa
jo na detaa hai davaa aur na shifaa detaa hai

35. is kii bihbuud kii kartaa hai jo koshish koii
to zamaanaa use suulii pe chaRhaa detaa hai!

36. zindagii dard-e-musalsal hai dam-e-aaKhir tak
kaun juz maut Gham-e-jaaN kii davaa detaa hai*

37. maut hai dard.kushaa, jo yih aqeeda ho to phir
zahr kaa jaam bhii sharbat kaa mazaa detaa hai

38. kaun pinhaaN hai pas-e-aks-e-Khudii mere sivaa
kaun hai jo mujhe rah rah ke sadaa detaa hai

39. just-juu tujh ko hai har pal meN baqaa kii, lekin
teraa har pal tujhe paiGhaam-e-fanaa detaa hai

40. raaz khultaa hai yih insaan pe kuchh vaqt ke baad
jo bhii detaa hai muqaddar so bhalaa detaa hai

41. har nayii sub.ha dilaatii hai gayii shab se najaat
vaqt har talKhii-e-maazii ko bhulaa detaa hai

42. vaqt kii Khuubii-e-san’at kaa bayaaN kaise karuuN
koh-e-aatish pe bhii jo barf jamaa detaa hai

43. pyaar se baat karo to bane dushman bhii dost
yih vuh nusKhaa hai jo har farq miTaa detaa hai

44. paas insaan ke mazbuut iraade hoN to phir
aasmaaN ko bhii zamiiN se vuh milaa detaa hai

45. aur baRh jaata hai kuchh azm-e-safar meraa, jab
koii kaaNTe mirii raahoN meN bichhaa detaa hai

46. haajat-e-laala-o-gul kyaa use jo saahib-e-shukr
Khaar-o-Khas hii se nasheman ko sajaa detaa hai

47. jhuuT kehne pe zamaanaa mujhe kartaa hai salaam
sach jo kahtaa huuN to kuhraam machaa detaa hai

48. pal meiN ho jaatii haiN taariik hazaaroN sadiyaaN
sach kaa jab ek diyaa jhuuT bujhaa detaa hai

49. kaisaa insaaf hai yih, merii safaaii ke baGhair
faislaa tuu mirii qismat kaa sunaa detaa hai

50. Khuun-e-insaaf kaa ilzaam hai Khud munsif par
dekhnaa yih hai ki ab kaun sazaa detaa hai

51. taKht-e-sultaan hai kyaa, naala-e-muflis jab bhii
guuNjtaa hai to falak ko bhii hilaa detaa hai

52. hai yih baazaar-e-jahaaN sirf us insaaN ke liye
khoTa sikkaa bhii jo Khuubii se chalaa detaa hai

53. pehle majbuur kiyaa jism.faroshii pe jinheN
miir-e-shahr aaj unheN dars-e-hayaa detaa hai

54. asl meN saahib-e-daulat hai vuhii dunyaa meN
apnaa sab kuchh jo GhariiboN pe luTaa detaa hai

55. us kii raahoN meN andhere nahiiN hote hargiz
Ghair kii raah meN jo sham’a jalaa detaa hai

56. sust.rau hii sahii, raahii huuN, koii sang nahiiN
har koii kyoN mujhe raste se haTaa detaa hai

57. kuchh to kashtii se havaa kehtii hai paas aa aa kar
shor-e-daryaa magar aavaaz dabaa detaa hai

58. naa.Khudaa ho ki na ho, ham ne yih dekhaa hai sadaa
sab kii kashtii ko Khudaa paar lagaa detaa hai

59. us kii hii shaan-e-karam hai yih bilaa-shub.ha, agar
koii shahkaar miraa dhuum machaa detaa hai

60. daad-o-tahsiin ke do lafz Ghaniimat jaane
varna fan aur suKhan.sanj ko kyaa detaa hai

61. baais-e-husn-e-suKhan mashq-e-suKhan hai :Abid:
haaN, magar zauq-e-suKhan sirf Khudaa detaa hai

*Gham-e-hastii kaa “Asad” kis se ho juz marg ilaaj
sham’a har rang meN jaltii hai sahar hone tak

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

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Jun 2, 2020, 9:49:02 PM6/2/20

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Irfan sahib,

aadaab arz hai.

abhii maiN sirf rasiid de rahii huuN. ghazal v'aaqai bahut taviil hai aur is meiN kaii moR aate haiN! maiN ne ise 'print' kar liya hai. zaraa aaraam se aur dhyaan se paRhuuNgi, phir hii kuChh maziid keh paauunNgi.

More later,

____Zoya

Irfan Abid

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Jun 4, 2020, 8:31:34 AM6/4/20

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Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

rasiid kaa shukriya! "goods" kaa intizaar hai. :) No rush. Take your time.

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

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Jun 6, 2020, 11:07:33 PM6/6/20

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aadaab Irfan sahib,

As promised, I am back.

I have been thinking about your ghazal, but have been generally distracted lately, just too much going on all around. Before I start losing the spontaneous thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading this ghazal, let me record them.

Even if you had not mentioned it, I could tell that these ash'aar were written over an extended period of time, through many different phases and moods.

When I start reading any 'taviil ghazal', for some reason, I expect it to be 'musalsal', having some continuity of thought process, all the ash'aar from matlaa till maqtaa flowing in a way, joined by something bigger than just qaafia/radiif. One of my all time favorite classic examples of a very taviil ghazal is Nasir Kazmi's 'pehli baarish', which actually reads like a long story, having several connected segments, leading to a conclusion. I can also think of some other similar examples, though not as long as 'pehli baarish'.

One more remark I want to make early on, if a 'taviil ghazal' is not 'musalsal', then I have usually seen it written as two or three separate ghazals in the same zamiin. I am in particular reminded of some such examples by my favorite poets whose works I have read repeatedly, Jaun Eliya, Faraz and Nasir Kazmi.

I know you said in your opening statement that you wanted to keep this ghazal intact and not break it into segments. However, as I was reading it, I could immediately feel when the mood of the ash'aar started changing, I could sort of tell where you probably resumed writing after a gap in time. It was interesting for me to to notice the 'growth' with time, in both thought and expression. So in my response, I will group the ash'aar into 'chapters', breaking where it seemed natural and effortless.

Here we go:

Chapter 1

aghaaz-e-ishq, Falling in love:

1. husn ko jab koii parde meN chhupaa detaa hai
ba.Khudaa us kii kashish aur baRhaa detaa hai

2. ishq parde ko baharhaal uThaa detaa hai
jalva-e-husn vuh aashiq ko dikhaa detaa hai

3. husn vuh zahr hai jo mai kaa nashaa detaa hai
maut kii niiNd meN aashiq ko sulaa detaa hai

4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai

5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai

I find these ash'aar sweet and innocent, early stages of falling in love, having
a lot of illusions! This reminded me of a sh'er that I had written a long time ago, probably the first sh'er I ever wrote:

ishq ko mojezah samajhte ho
abhi kamsin ho, kya samajhte ho! :)

One more thing before I get away from Chapter 1,

In #4, I paused over 'jilaa', is this usage common in Urdu poetry? Is it in the same family of words as 'dikhaa', 'bisraa' etc that we discussed in detail in another thread, and should be avoided if possible? Not sure.

_____________________________________________________________________

Chapter 2

The mood changes. In love. Fun times:

6. pesh-qadmii pe vuh but hosh uRaa detaa hai
piichhe muRtaa huuN to patthar kaa banaa detaa hai!

7. deed-e-jaanaaN ne to vuh haal kiyaa hai jaise
koii jaaduu kii chhaRii sar pe phiraa detaa hai

8. aasmaanoN pe daraKhsaaN haiN jo maah-o-anjum
us kaa hii nuur hai jo in ko ziyaa detaa hai

* 'us' in #8 seems ambiguous. If reading this sh'er independent of the ones immediately preceding it, not clear to the reader who 'us' is referring to.

9. us ke daaman kii havaa meN vuhii mahsuus huaa
jo sukuuN vaqt-e-sahar lams-e-sabaa detaa hai

10. pehle kar detaa hai aamaadah jabiiN.bosii par
aur phir mujh ko vuh ilzaam-e-Khataa detaa hai!

* Reading #10, this sh'er came to my mind right away:

ishq kaa zauq-e-nazaaraa muft meiN badnaam hai
husn Khud betaab hai jalve dikhaane ke liye!

11. jurm-e-ulfat kaa lab iqraar kareN yaa na kareN
meraa chihraa mire sab raaz bataa detaa hai

12. us ko phir apne hii dil par nahiiN rehtaa qaabu
gosha-e-dil meN kisii ko jo basaa detaa hai

13. sahn-e-gulshan kii talab kuchh nahiiN deevaanoN ko
vast-e-sahraa meN junuuN phuul khilaa detaa hai

* Very nice!

14. apnii besuud tag-o-dau se yih maaluum huaa
aadmii shauq meN Khud ko bhii bhulaa detaa hai

__________________________________________________________________

Chapter 3

Getting disillusioned, trying to make sense:

16. tujh ko ai shab ke andhere! yih Khabar bhii hai ki tuu
kitne soye hue fitnoN ko jagaa detaa hai?

17. aise Khvaabiidah hue, ghar hii luTaa baiThe ham
dekhiye ab hameN kyaa Khvaab-e-vafaa detaa hai

18. ek tujh hii se yih taqsiir huii ho to kahuuN
kaun dunyaa meN vafaaoN kaa silaa detaa hai!

19. baad.az.tark-e-ta’alluq bhii dil-e-deevaanaa
sham’a-e-ummiid nayii roz jalaa detaa hai

*Ahhhhh, happens.

"lekin is tark-e-muhabbat kaa bharosaa bhii nahiiN"!

20. bhiigii shaamoN kii qasam, chaltii hai jab purvaaii
dil kaa har zaKhm tujhe dil se duaa detaa hai!

21. kitnaa zarKhez hai tanhayii kaa jangal, mat puuchh
pal meN sau Khaar KhayaaloN ke ugaa detaa hai

* I really like the phrase, "Khaar KhayaaloN ke", hmmmmm the piecing thoughts....

___________________________________________________________________

Chapter 4:

Turmoil. Trying to accept/rationalize:

22. jab bhii aataa hai mire dil meN Khayaal-e-maazii
ik na ik dard kaa afsaana sunaa detaa hai

23. tujh se ai deeda-e-tar! hashr meN luuNgaa maiN hisaab
jo mire Khuun ko paanii saa bahaa detaa hai

24. us kii palkoN ko kabhii tar nahiiN dekhaa ham* ne

jaagte hii jo tamannaa ko sulaa detaa hai

* I have an issue with 'ham' here, shuldn't it be 'maiN' to preserve consistency?

25. dil ko hotaa hai kahaaN tajriba-e-gesuu-e-yaar
baKht jab kaakul-e-giitii meN phaNsaa detaa hai

26. raah-e-dunyaa meN to yih bhii hai maqaam-e-hairat
koii do gaam agar saath nibhaa detaa hai

27. aqrabaa chhoR gaye saath to Gham kyaa karnaa

mushkil aa jaaye to saayaa* bhii daGhaa detaa hai

28. maiN ne kyaa kyaa na sahaa rah ke ujaaloN meN, na puuchh

ab to saayaa* bhii miraa mujh ko Daraa detaa hai

* I think the word 'saayaa' is repeated too soon

28 reminded me of a sh'er from an 'udaas ghazal' I had once written:

ik shajar saaye_daar thii maiN to
ab jo patta hile, to Dar jaauuN :-(

Not a fun phase.

______________________________________________________________________________

Chapter 5:

Transition. Getting out of self. A broader, more rational view/prospect:

29. pur-Khuluus us kii itaa’at ko na samjho hargiz
dar pe har ek ke jo sar ko jhukaa detaa hai

30. raah-rau chalte haiN peechhe, hoN nashe meN jaise
raahbar! tuu inheN kyaa chiiz pilaa detaa hai?

31. kis tarah mujh ko milegii mirii manzil aaKhir
jab ki rahbar hii mujhe raah bhulaa detaa hai

32. rah.rau-e-shauq! zaraa raah kii jaanib to dekh
zarra zarra tujhe manzil kaa pataa detaa hai

33. ik nigahbaan samajhte haiN jise ahl-e-chaman
kyoN vuhii aag guilstaaN ko lagaa detaa hai

34. log us shaKhs ko kahte haiN masiihaa apnaa
jo na detaa hai davaa aur na shifaa detaa hai

35. is kii bihbuud kii kartaa hai jo koshish koii
to zamaanaa use suulii pe chaRhaa detaa hai!

36. zindagii dard-e-musalsal hai dam-e-aaKhir tak
kaun juz maut Gham-e-jaaN kii davaa detaa hai*

37. maut hai dard.kushaa, jo yih aqeeda ho to phir
zahr kaa jaam bhii sharbat kaa mazaa detaa hai

____________________________________________________________

Chapter 6:

Making peace/Moving on. Philosophical:

38. kaun pinhaaN hai pas-e-aks-e-Khudii mere sivaa
kaun hai jo mujhe rah rah ke sadaa detaa hai

39. just-juu tujh ko hai har pal meN baqaa kii, lekin
teraa har pal tujhe paiGhaam-e-fanaa detaa hai

40. raaz khultaa hai yih insaan pe kuchh vaqt ke baad
jo bhii detaa hai muqaddar so bhalaa detaa hai

41. har nayii sub.ha dilaatii hai gayii shab se najaat
vaqt har talKhii-e-maazii ko bhulaa detaa hai

42. vaqt kii Khuubii-e-san’at kaa bayaaN kaise karuuN
koh-e-aatish pe bhii jo barf jamaa detaa hai

43. pyaar se baat karo to bane dushman bhii dost
yih vuh nusKhaa hai jo har farq miTaa detaa hai

44. paas insaan ke mazbuut iraade hoN to phir
aasmaaN ko bhii zamiiN se vuh milaa detaa hai

45. aur baRh jaata hai kuchh azm-e-safar meraa, jab
koii kaaNTe mirii raahoN meN bichhaa detaa hai

46. haajat-e-laala-o-gul kyaa use jo saahib-e-shukr
Khaar-o-Khas hii se nasheman ko sajaa detaa hai

_______________________________________________________________________

Chapter 7:

The next stage. World view. Sociopolitical Undertones:

47. jhuuT kehne pe zamaanaa mujhe kartaa hai salaam
sach jo kahtaa huuN to kuhraam machaa detaa hai

48. pal meiN ho jaatii haiN taariik hazaaroN sadiyaaN

sach kaa jab ek diyaa jhuuT bujhaa detaa hai*

* I had a slight problem with the flow here, maybe it can be rearranged like:

jhuuT jab sach kaa diya ek bujhaa detaa hai

What do you think?

49. kaisaa insaaf hai yih, merii safaaii ke baGhair
faislaa tuu mirii qismat kaa sunaa detaa hai

50. Khuun-e-insaaf kaa ilzaam hai Khud munsif par
dekhnaa yih hai ki ab kaun sazaa detaa hai

51. taKht-e-sultaan hai kyaa, naala-e-muflis jab bhii
guuNjtaa hai to falak ko bhii hilaa detaa hai

52. hai yih baazaar-e-jahaaN sirf us insaaN ke liye
khoTa sikkaa bhii jo Khuubii se chalaa detaa hai

53. pehle majbuur kiyaa jism.faroshii pe jinheN
miir-e-shahr aaj unheN dars-e-hayaa detaa hai

54. asl meN saahib-e-daulat hai vuhii dunyaa meN
apnaa sab kuchh jo GhariiboN pe luTaa detaa hai

55. us kii raahoN meN andhere nahiiN hote hargiz
Ghair kii raah meN jo sham’a jalaa detaa hai

_______________________________________________________________________

Chapter 8:

Change of mood again. Resigning. Leaving things in the hands of the Higher power:

56. sust.rau hii sahii, raahii huuN, koii sang nahiiN
har koii kyoN mujhe raste se haTaa detaa hai

57. kuchh to kashtii se havaa kehtii hai paas aa aa kar
shor-e-daryaa magar aavaaz dabaa detaa hai

58. naa.Khudaa ho ki na ho, ham ne yih dekhaa hai sadaa
sab kii kashtii ko Khudaa paar lagaa detaa hai

*Have you? ham ne aisaa bhii sunaa hai:

na kar kisi pe bharosaa k kashtiyaaN DuubiiN
Khuda ke hote hue, naaKhuda ke hote hue!

59. us kii hii shaan-e-karam hai yih bilaa-shub.ha, agar
koii shahkaar miraa dhuum machaa detaa hai

60. daad-o-tahsiin ke do lafz Ghaniimat jaane
varna fan aur suKhan.sanj ko kyaa detaa hai

61. baais-e-husn-e-suKhan mashq-e-suKhan hai :Abid:
haaN, magar zauq-e-suKhan sirf Khudaa detaa hai

______________________________________________________________

End of story? :)

I don't know how accurate my analysis is, I looked at this 'taviil ghazal' as a forest, not counting the trees. A story of the journey of growth, both as a person and a poet. Phases of life.

I will probably have to read it again, after a gap, to absorb it and fully appreciate the individual ash'aar.

Irfan sahib, You are such a gifted poet, Keep writing and keep sharing.

Thank you.

_____Zoya

Irfan Abid

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Jun 8, 2020, 9:09:36 PM6/8/20

to

On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 11:07:33 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> aadaab Irfan sahib,
>
> As promised, I am back.
>

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

ahlan wa sahlan.

> I have been thinking about your ghazal, but have been generally distracted lately, just too much going on all around. Before I start losing the spontaneous thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading this ghazal, let me record them.
>
> Even if you had not mentioned it, I could tell that these ash'aar were written over an extended period of time, through many different phases and moods.
>
> When I start reading any 'taviil ghazal', for some reason, I expect it to be 'musalsal', having some continuity of thought process, all the ash'aar from matlaa till maqtaa flowing in a way, joined by something bigger than just qaafia/radiif. One of my all time favorite classic examples of a very taviil ghazal is Nasir Kazmi's 'pehli baarish', which actually reads like a long story, having several connected segments, leading to a conclusion. I can also think of some other similar examples, though not as long as 'pehli baarish'.
>

It appears I didn’t do a good job at managing expectations. :) You see, whether long or short, a Ghazal does not have to be musalsal. Being musalsal is an additional requirement a poet places on him/herself when he/she is dealing with a single subject while using the format of Ghazal, making it almost a nazm.

> One more remark I want to make early on, if a 'taviil ghazal' is not 'musalsal', then I have usually seen it written as two or three separate ghazals in the same zamiin. I am in particular reminded of some such examples by my favorite poets whose works I have read repeatedly, Jaun Eliya, Faraz and Nasir Kazmi.
>

Yes, poets have written multiple Ghazals in the same zamiin. Poets have also written a single long Ghazal, again not a musalsal Ghazal, just plain Ghazal. In fact, when I was posting this Ghazal, out of curiosity I looked up on the Internet as to what the max number of ash’aar in a single Ghazal is. Guess what, a poet has written a Ghazal with 1,000 (yes, three zeroes) in it. I wouldn’t dare go there, but I did want to see how many worthwhile ash’aar I can come up with in one zamiin. This idea didn’t come to me until almost half of the ash’aar were already composed. Then I decided to give it more time to see if more ash’aar would be born. As I said, I called it done around 60 odd ash’aar.

> I know you said in your opening statement that you wanted to keep this ghazal intact and not break it into segments. However, as I was reading it, I could immediately feel when the mood of the ash'aar started changing, I could sort of tell where you probably resumed writing after a gap in time. It was interesting for me to to notice the 'growth' with time, in both thought and expression. So in my response, I will group the ash'aar into 'chapters', breaking where it seemed natural and effortless.
>
> Here we go:
>
> Chapter 1
>
> aghaaz-e-ishq, Falling in love:
>
> 1. husn ko jab koii parde meN chhupaa detaa hai
> ba.Khudaa us kii kashish aur baRhaa detaa hai
>
> 2. ishq parde ko baharhaal uThaa detaa hai
> jalva-e-husn vuh aashiq ko dikhaa detaa hai
>
> 3. husn vuh zahr hai jo mai kaa nashaa detaa hai
> maut kii niiNd meN aashiq ko sulaa detaa hai
>
> 4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
> yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai
>
> 5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
> aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai
>
> I find these ash'aar sweet and innocent, early stages of falling in love, having
> a lot of illusions! This reminded me of a sh'er that I had written a long time ago, probably the first sh'er I ever wrote:
>
> ishq ko mojezah samajhte ho
> abhi kamsin ho, kya samajhte ho! :)
>

I remember this sher. Good one!

> One more thing before I get away from Chapter 1,
>
> In #4, I paused over 'jilaa', is this usage common in Urdu poetry? Is it in the same family of words as 'dikhaa', 'bisraa' etc that we discussed in detail in another thread, and should be avoided if possible? Not sure.
>

Not at all. This is exactly how this word is supposed to be used. See this example.

jis ne ik ahd ke zihnoN ko jilaa dii hogii
mere aavaara Khayaalaat kii bijlii hogii (Kalidas Gupta Raza)

> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Chapter 2
>
> The mood changes. In love. Fun times:
>
> 6. pesh-qadmii pe vuh but hosh uRaa detaa hai
> piichhe muRtaa huuN to patthar kaa banaa detaa hai!
>
> 7. deed-e-jaanaaN ne to vuh haal kiyaa hai jaise
> koii jaaduu kii chhaRii sar pe phiraa detaa hai
>
> 8. aasmaanoN pe daraKhsaaN haiN jo maah-o-anjum
> us kaa hii nuur hai jo in ko ziyaa detaa hai
>
> * 'us' in #8 seems ambiguous. If reading this sh'er independent of the ones immediately preceding it, not clear to the reader who 'us' is referring to.
>

The entity behind “us” does not have to be made clear. In fact, some people consider it a beauty of the sher. Look at this gem and tell me who “us” is.

zamiin us kii, falak us kaa, kaainaat us kii
kuchh aisaa ishq tiraa KhaanumaaN-Kharaab nahiiN (Firaq Gorakhpuri)

> 9. us ke daaman kii havaa meN vuhii mahsuus huaa
> jo sukuuN vaqt-e-sahar lams-e-sabaa detaa hai
>
> 10. pehle kar detaa hai aamaadah jabiiN.bosii par
> aur phir mujh ko vuh ilzaam-e-Khataa detaa hai!
>
> * Reading #10, this sh'er came to my mind right away:
>
> ishq kaa zauq-e-nazaaraa muft meiN badnaam hai
> husn Khud betaab hai jalve dikhaane ke liye!
>

Khuub! Typical mesmerizing Majaz. I believe “jalve” is “jalva,” but I may be wrong.

> 11. jurm-e-ulfat kaa lab iqraar kareN yaa na kareN
> meraa chihraa mire sab raaz bataa detaa hai
>
> 12. us ko phir apne hii dil par nahiiN rehtaa qaabu
> gosha-e-dil meN kisii ko jo basaa detaa hai
>
> 13. sahn-e-gulshan kii talab kuchh nahiiN deevaanoN ko
> vast-e-sahraa meN junuuN phuul khilaa detaa hai
>
> * Very nice!
>

Gracias!

> 14. apnii besuud tag-o-dau se yih maaluum huaa
> aadmii shauq meN Khud ko bhii bhulaa detaa hai
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Chapter 3
>
> Getting disillusioned, trying to make sense:
>
> 16. tujh ko ai shab ke andhere! yih Khabar bhii hai ki tuu
> kitne soye hue fitnoN ko jagaa detaa hai?
>
> 17. aise Khvaabiidah hue, ghar hii luTaa baiThe ham
> dekhiye ab hameN kyaa Khvaab-e-vafaa detaa hai
>
> 18. ek tujh hii se yih taqsiir huii ho to kahuuN
> kaun dunyaa meN vafaaoN kaa silaa detaa hai!
>
> 19. baad.az.tark-e-ta’alluq bhii dil-e-deevaanaa
> sham’a-e-ummiid nayii roz jalaa detaa hai
>
> *Ahhhhh, happens.
>
> "lekin is tark-e-muhabbat kaa bharosaa bhii nahiiN"!
>
> 20. bhiigii shaamoN kii qasam, chaltii hai jab purvaaii
> dil kaa har zaKhm tujhe dil se duaa detaa hai!
>
> 21. kitnaa zarKhez hai tanhayii kaa jangal, mat puuchh
> pal meN sau Khaar KhayaaloN ke ugaa detaa hai
>
> * I really like the phrase, "Khaar KhayaaloN ke", hmmmmm the piecing thoughts....
>

Thanks!

> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> Chapter 4:
>
> Turmoil. Trying to accept/rationalize:
>
> 22. jab bhii aataa hai mire dil meN Khayaal-e-maazii
> ik na ik dard kaa afsaana sunaa detaa hai
>
> 23. tujh se ai deeda-e-tar! hashr meN luuNgaa maiN hisaab
> jo mire Khuun ko paanii saa bahaa detaa hai
>
> 24. us kii palkoN ko kabhii tar nahiiN dekhaa ham* ne
> jaagte hii jo tamannaa ko sulaa detaa hai
>
> * I have an issue with 'ham' here, shuldn't it be 'maiN' to preserve consistency?
>

Not necessary.

> 25. dil ko hotaa hai kahaaN tajriba-e-gesuu-e-yaar
> baKht jab kaakul-e-giitii meN phaNsaa detaa hai
>
> 26. raah-e-dunyaa meN to yih bhii hai maqaam-e-hairat
> koii do gaam agar saath nibhaa detaa hai
>
> 27. aqrabaa chhoR gaye saath to Gham kyaa karnaa
> mushkil aa jaaye to saayaa* bhii daGhaa detaa hai
>
> 28. maiN ne kyaa kyaa na sahaa rah ke ujaaloN meN, na puuchh
> ab to saayaa* bhii miraa mujh ko Daraa detaa hai
>
> * I think the word 'saayaa' is repeated too soon
>

May be. But there was a reason. Although these ash’aar were created at different times, I gave them an order that would have some sort of continuity you talked about in the beginning. One thing I used for that was the common subject.

> 28 reminded me of a sh'er from an 'udaas ghazal' I had once written:
>
> ik shajar saaye_daar thii maiN to
> ab jo patta hile, to Dar jaauuN :-(
>
> Not a fun phase.
>

Don’t remember this one. Please share this Ghazal, if it’s not an isolated she’r. It’s a good she’r in terms of composition, but I couldn’t fathom the meaning. Also, “saaye-daar” should be “saaya-daar.” By the way, you may not know this, but this she’r has a cousin. :)

vaqt kii dhuup meN tumhaare liye
shajar-e-saaya-daar the ham to (Jaun Eliya)

Not an improvement. Sorry! :(

Have experienced this, too.

> 59. us kii hii shaan-e-karam hai yih bilaa-shub.ha, agar
> koii shahkaar miraa dhuum machaa detaa hai
>
> 60. daad-o-tahsiin ke do lafz Ghaniimat jaane
> varna fan aur suKhan.sanj ko kyaa detaa hai
>
> 61. baais-e-husn-e-suKhan mashq-e-suKhan hai :Abid:
> haaN, magar zauq-e-suKhan sirf Khudaa detaa hai
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> End of story? :)
>

Well, it had to end somewhere. Didn’t it?

> I don't know how accurate my analysis is, I looked at this 'taviil ghazal' as a forest, not counting the trees. A story of the journey of growth, both as a person and a poet. Phases of life.
>

I think that’s the right way to look at it.

> I will probably have to read it again, after a gap, to absorb it and fully appreciate the individual ash'aar.
>

Please do. I want to note that there is a huge difference between a short story and a novel, both for the writer and the reader. A novel requires a totally different frame of mind to write and read than a short story. You should have enough time to devote to a novel in order to appreciate it. Look at it this way. Going by the average number of ash’aar a typical Ghazal has, you are actually reading 7-8 Ghazals. You need as much time to read and enjoy this collage. As I said earlier, this time I did want to write a novel and see how it goes.

> Irfan sahib, You are such a gifted poet, Keep writing and keep sharing.
>

That’s so kind of you!

> Thank you.
>
> _____Zoya

Thanks a lot for your time and valuable comments! Patronage of friends like you keeps my tryst with poetry going. Otherwise, as I said in this Ghazal, “varna fan aur suKhan-sanj ko kyaa detaa hai!”

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

unread,

Jun 9, 2020, 1:42:20 PM6/9/20

to

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 8:09:36 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab arz hai Irfan sahib,
>
> ahlan wa sahlan.

shukraan jaziilan :)

>
> It appears I didn’t do a good job at managing expectations. :) You see, whether long or short, a Ghazal does not have to be musalsal. Being musalsal is an additional requirement a poet places on him/herself when he/she is dealing with a single subject while using the format of Ghazal, making it almost a nazm.

I can't explain it, I don't know why I expected this ghazal to be musalsal. And yes, my most favorite tavill ghazal 'pehlii baarish' is actually better classified as a nazm, or at least as a ghazal_numaa nazm.

>
>
> Yes, poets have written multiple Ghazals in the same zamiin. Poets have also written a single long Ghazal, again not a musalsal Ghazal, just plain Ghazal. In fact, when I was posting this Ghazal, out of curiosity I looked up on the Internet as to what the max number of ash’aar in a single Ghazal is. Guess what, a poet has written a Ghazal with 1,000 (yes, three zeroes) in it. I wouldn’t dare go there, but I did want to see how many worthwhile ash’aar I can come up with in one zamiin. This idea didn’t come to me until almost half of the ash’aar were already composed. Then I decided to give it more time to see if more ash’aar would be born. As I said, I called it done around 60 odd ash’aar.

Irfan sahib, I just want to let you know that if my analysis of your ghazal came across as a bit critical, I really did not mean it to be, nor do I feel qualified enough to critique it. In all honesty, with the constant craziness of 2020 all around us, I feel sort of numb most days, not very bright, unable to focus fully on anything, generally fatigued, waiting for things to turn around, looking for some silver linings. So, I decided to document my first impression of your ghazal without waiting too long, afraid that I may not be able to say much of value later, and may even lose my initial thoughts!

One question I have for you, was I even close in my breakdown as chapters i.e. did it even vaguely match the actual time line in which you wrote the ash'aar? Maybe not, but as an engaged reader, I am curious if I was travelling through different time zones at a wavelength similar to the writer.

Actually I go through a similar experience whenever I reread 'pehli baarish', subconsciously connecting the dots and trying to figure out the sequence of emotions the poet must have gone through during the creation. In a sense, this is the best compliment I can give you, that your ghazal evoked similar sentiments in me as my favorite work of my most favorite poet does. :)

>
> >
> > 4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
> > yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai

> >

> > In #4, I paused over 'jilaa', is this usage common in Urdu poetry? Is it in the same family of words as 'dikhaa', 'bisraa' etc that we discussed in detail in another thread, and should be avoided if possible? Not sure.
> >
>
> Not at all. This is exactly how this word is supposed to be used. See this example.
>
> jis ne ik ahd ke zihnoN ko jilaa dii hogii
> mere aavaara Khayaalaat kii bijlii hogii (Kalidas Gupta Raza)

I still don't get it! At the risk of sounding dumb, let me ask, can you give me the literal translation of 'jilaa' in the sense you have used it in your sh'er? I have generally seen it used only in words like jilaa_vatan etc, hence the struggle to grasp its usage in #4. And while we are at it, is 'iksiir' the pure form, I thought 'aksiir' is the more common version?

> >
> > 8. aasmaanoN pe daraKhsaaN haiN jo maah-o-anjum
> > us kaa hii nuur hai jo in ko ziyaa detaa hai
> >
> > * 'us' in #8 seems ambiguous. If reading this sh'er independent of the ones immediately preceding it, not clear to the reader who 'us' is referring to.
> >
>
> The entity behind “us” does not have to be made clear. In fact, some people consider it a beauty of the sher. Look at this gem and tell me who “us” is.
>
> zamiin us kii, falak us kaa, kaainaat us kii
> kuchh aisaa ishq tiraa KhaanumaaN-Kharaab nahiiN (Firaq Gorakhpuri)

Yes of course, as a stand alone sh'er, 'us' in #8 may be perceived as referring to 'Khuda' even. I did think about it. I guess my comment was based on my 'musalsal' presumption, maybe I was somehow looking for a common thread with the preceding ash'aar.

>
> > 9. us ke daaman kii havaa meN vuhii mahsuus huaa
> > jo sukuuN vaqt-e-sahar lams-e-sabaa detaa hai
> >
> > 10. pehle kar detaa hai aamaadah jabiiN.bosii par
> > aur phir mujh ko vuh ilzaam-e-Khataa detaa hai!
> >
> > * Reading #10, this sh'er came to my mind right away:
> >
> > ishq kaa zauq-e-nazaaraa muft meiN badnaam hai
> > husn Khud betaab hai jalve dikhaane ke liye!
> >
>
> Khuub! Typical mesmerizing Majaz. I believe “jalve” is “jalva,” but I may be wrong.

You are right, it is 'jalva'. I did pause on this when quoting the sh'er from memory, but did not verify it. This is one of those ash'aar that has been stored in my brain hard disk since childhood, I couldn't even tell you when I had first read/heard it.

>
> >
> > 13. sahn-e-gulshan kii talab kuchh nahiiN deevaanoN ko
> > vast-e-sahraa meN junuuN phuul khilaa detaa hai
> >
> > * Very nice!
> >
>
> Gracias!

de nada!! :)

>
> > 21. kitnaa zarKhez hai tanhayii kaa jangal, mat puuchh
> > pal meN sau Khaar KhayaaloN ke ugaa detaa hai
> >
> > * I really like the phrase, "Khaar KhayaaloN ke", hmmmmm the piecing thoughts....
> >
>
> Thanks!

You are welcome!!

>
> >
> > 24. us kii palkoN ko kabhii tar nahiiN dekhaa ham* ne
> > jaagte hii jo tamannaa ko sulaa detaa hai
> >
> > * I have an issue with 'ham' here, shuldn't it be 'maiN' to preserve consistency?
>
> Not necessary.

Ok now, not necessary, but not preferable either?? Since this is probably the only sh'er in the entire ghazal where you are using 'ham', almost everywhere else it is 'maiN'. You will have to convince me why 'ham' here??

>
> >
> > 27. aqrabaa chhoR gaye saath to Gham kyaa karnaa
> > mushkil aa jaaye to saayaa* bhii daGhaa detaa hai
> >
> > 28. maiN ne kyaa kyaa na sahaa rah ke ujaaloN meN, na puuchh
> > ab to saayaa* bhii miraa mujh ko Daraa detaa hai
> >
> > * I think the word 'saayaa' is repeated too soon
> >
>
> May be. But there was a reason. Although these ash’aar were created at different times, I gave them an order that would have some sort of continuity you talked about in the beginning. One thing I used for that was the common subject.

I'll give you this one, albeit rather reluctantly!

>
> > 28 reminded me of a sh'er from an 'udaas ghazal' I had once written:
> >
> > ik shajar saaye_daar thii maiN to
> > ab jo patta hile, to Dar jaauuN :-(
> >
> > Not a fun phase.
> >
>
> Don’t remember this one. Please share this Ghazal, if it’s not an isolated she’r. It’s a good she’r in terms of composition, but I couldn’t fathom the meaning. Also, “saaye-daar” should be “saaya-daar.” By the way, you may not know this, but this she’r has a cousin. :)
>
> vaqt kii dhuup meN tumhaare liye
> shajar-e-saaya-daar the ham to (Jaun Eliya)

I'll be darned!!! Having read all four books of JE more than once, how come this sh'er is new for me?! Beautiful, I absolutely love it. You know what I am thinking now, I may have actually read this sh'er sometime in the past, the thought may have lingered somewhere in my subconsciousness and triggered my sh'er. I dare not think I can create at JE level, and if I really did, then WOW!

Are you sure you want to read my full 'udaas ghazal'? Warn you, it is rather gloomy, nothing like the Zoya we know most of the time. Maybe writing it was therapeutic in a way, but I have not revisited it in a while. It is buried away somewhere, who knows, digging it up now may actually be even more therapeutic?! :)

> >
> > 48. pal meiN ho jaatii haiN taariik hazaaroN sadiyaaN
> > sach kaa jab ek diyaa jhuuT bujhaa detaa hai*
> >
> > * I had a slight problem with the flow here, maybe it can be rearranged like:
> >
> > jhuuT jab sach kaa diya ek bujhaa detaa hai
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
>
> Not an improvement. Sorry! :(

Fair. Maybe not an improvement, but let me at least explain where I was coming from. I thought it may be better if the words 'diyaa' and 'bujhaa' were closer together?

>
> >
> > 58. naa.Khudaa ho ki na ho, ham ne yih dekhaa hai sadaa
> > sab kii kashtii ko Khudaa paar lagaa detaa hai
> >
> > *Have you? ham ne aisaa bhii sunaa hai:
> >
> > na kar kisi pe bharosaa k kashtiyaaN DuubiiN
> > Khuda ke hote hue, naaKhuda ke hote hue!
> >
>
> Have experienced this, too.

Haven't we all?! :)

>
> End of story? :)
>
> Well, it had to end somewhere. Didn’t it?

Not necessarily, didn't you say there is a ghazal somewhere on the net with 1000 ash'aar ?? :-))

>
> > I will probably have to read it again, after a gap, to absorb it and fully appreciate the individual ash'aar.
> >
>
> Please do. I want to note that there is a huge difference between a short story and a novel, both for the writer and the reader. A novel requires a totally different frame of mind to write and read than a short story. You should have enough time to devote to a novel in order to appreciate it. Look at it this way. Going by the average number of ash’aar a typical Ghazal has, you are actually reading 7-8 Ghazals. You need as much time to read and enjoy this collage. As I said earlier, this time I did want to write a novel and see how it goes.
>

Well put. This collage of yours definitely needs more time and attention than I have yet given it. I will be revisit it, probably more than once.

>
> Thanks a lot for your time and valuable comments! Patronage of friends like you keeps my tryst with poetry going. Otherwise, as I said in this Ghazal, “varna fan aur suKhan-sanj ko kyaa detaa hai!”
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:

The pleasure is all mine and I reiterate, please keep writing and keep sharing.

Thank you.

______Zoya

Message has been deleted

Naseer

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Jun 9, 2020, 2:07:57 PM6/9/20

to

On Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:42:20 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
>
>
> I still don't get it! At the risk of sounding dumb, let me ask, can you give me the literal translation of 'jilaa' in the sense you have used it in your sh'er? I have generally seen it used only in words like jilaa_vatan etc, hence the struggle to grasp its usage in #4. And while we are at it, is 'iksiir' the pure form, I thought 'aksiir' is the more common version?
>
> >

> ______Zoya

I shall answer this for you Zoya SaaHibah, on behalf of Irfan SaaHib, as it is an easy question and I like answering easy questions!:-)

Just as: piinaa > pilaanaa

jiinaa > jilaanaa!

Get it?

"iksiir" is the correct version and "aksiir" the "vulgar" one (according to Platts- By "vulgar" he means "colloquial")

Naseer

Irfan Abid

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Jun 10, 2020, 9:03:44 PM6/10/20

to

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 1:42:20 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 8:09:36 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> >
> > Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>
> aadaab arz hai Irfan sahib,
> >
> > ahlan wa sahlan.
>
> shukraan jaziilan :)
>
> >

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

> > It appears I didn’t do a good job at managing expectations. :) You see, whether long or short, a Ghazal does not have to be musalsal. Being musalsal is an additional requirement a poet places on him/herself when he/she is dealing with a single subject while using the format of Ghazal, making it almost a nazm.
>
> I can't explain it, I don't know why I expected this ghazal to be musalsal. And yes, my most favorite tavill ghazal 'pehlii baarish' is actually better classified as a nazm, or at least as a ghazal_numaa nazm.
>
> >
> >
> > Yes, poets have written multiple Ghazals in the same zamiin. Poets have also written a single long Ghazal, again not a musalsal Ghazal, just plain Ghazal. In fact, when I was posting this Ghazal, out of curiosity I looked up on the Internet as to what the max number of ash’aar in a single Ghazal is. Guess what, a poet has written a Ghazal with 1,000 (yes, three zeroes) in it. I wouldn’t dare go there, but I did want to see how many worthwhile ash’aar I can come up with in one zamiin. This idea didn’t come to me until almost half of the ash’aar were already composed. Then I decided to give it more time to see if more ash’aar would be born. As I said, I called it done around 60 odd ash’aar.
>
> Irfan sahib, I just want to let you know that if my analysis of your ghazal came across as a bit critical, I really did not mean it to be, nor do I feel qualified enough to critique it. In all honesty, with the constant craziness of 2020 all around us, I feel sort of numb most days, not very bright, unable to focus fully on anything, generally fatigued, waiting for things to turn around, looking for some silver linings. So, I decided to document my first impression of your ghazal without waiting too long, afraid that I may not be able to say much of value later, and may even lose my initial thoughts!
>

Come on, please don't say that. First of all, it wasn't critical. And even if it were, you have the right to be critical. Thanks for recording your thoughts!

> One question I have for you, was I even close in my breakdown as chapters i.e. did it even vaguely match the actual time line in which you wrote the ash'aar? Maybe not, but as an engaged reader, I am curious if I was travelling through different time zones at a wavelength similar to the writer.
>

As I said, these ash'aar were born over a long time, around 15 years, if you want to how long. The order of these ash'aar was completely random, nowhere close to the final order. I kept writing them in my diary, which is nothing but a MS Word file, as they came. I moved them around when I was getting ready to post the Ghazal, and ordered them by the theme/subject, which you called "chapters." One she'r in a certain chapter might have been born several years apart from another in that chapter. Unfortunately now I can't tell what order each she'r came in. Wish I had preserved the original order, but it's too late. :(

> Actually I go through a similar experience whenever I reread 'pehli baarish', subconsciously connecting the dots and trying to figure out the sequence of emotions the poet must have gone through during the creation. In a sense, this is the best compliment I can give you, that your ghazal evoked similar sentiments in me as my favorite work of my most favorite poet does. :)

> >

That's an honor. Thanks you!

> > >
> > > 4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
> > > yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai
>
> > >
> > > In #4, I paused over 'jilaa', is this usage common in Urdu poetry? Is it in the same family of words as 'dikhaa', 'bisraa' etc that we discussed in detail in another thread, and should be avoided if possible? Not sure.
> > >
> >
> > Not at all. This is exactly how this word is supposed to be used. See this example.
> >
> > jis ne ik ahd ke zihnoN ko jilaa dii hogii
> > mere aavaara Khayaalaat kii bijlii hogii (Kalidas Gupta Raza)
>
> I still don't get it! At the risk of sounding dumb, let me ask, can you give me the literal translation of 'jilaa' in the sense you have used it in your sh'er? I have generally seen it used only in words like jilaa_vatan etc, hence the struggle to grasp its usage in #4. And while we are at it, is 'iksiir' the pure form, I thought 'aksiir' is the more common version?
>

Naseer sb has already mentioned the origin of "jilaa denaa." It truly comes from the verb "jilaanaa," which means "to give life to" as per Platts. I believe this verb itself comes from the word "jilaa," which means "light," but I can't confirm this connection. The "jilaa" in "jilaa-vatan" is actually the corrupted form of "jalaa," which means "to leave one's country." It's generally used with the word "vatan" as "jalaa-vatan" or "jilaa-vatan."

> > >
> > > 8. aasmaanoN pe daraKhsaaN haiN jo maah-o-anjum
> > > us kaa hii nuur hai jo in ko ziyaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > * 'us' in #8 seems ambiguous. If reading this sh'er independent of the ones immediately preceding it, not clear to the reader who 'us' is referring to.
> > >
> >
> > The entity behind “us” does not have to be made clear. In fact, some people consider it a beauty of the sher. Look at this gem and tell me who “us” is.
> >
> > zamiin us kii, falak us kaa, kaainaat us kii
> > kuchh aisaa ishq tiraa KhaanumaaN-Kharaab nahiiN (Firaq Gorakhpuri)
>
> Yes of course, as a stand alone sh'er, 'us' in #8 may be perceived as referring to 'Khuda' even. I did think about it. I guess my comment was based on my 'musalsal' presumption, maybe I was somehow looking for a common thread with the preceding ash'aar.
>

Got it.

> >
> > > 9. us ke daaman kii havaa meN vuhii mahsuus huaa
> > > jo sukuuN vaqt-e-sahar lams-e-sabaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > 10. pehle kar detaa hai aamaadah jabiiN.bosii par
> > > aur phir mujh ko vuh ilzaam-e-Khataa detaa hai!
> > >
> > > * Reading #10, this sh'er came to my mind right away:
> > >
> > > ishq kaa zauq-e-nazaaraa muft meiN badnaam hai
> > > husn Khud betaab hai jalve dikhaane ke liye!
> > >
> >
> > Khuub! Typical mesmerizing Majaz. I believe “jalve” is “jalva,” but I may be wrong.
>
> You are right, it is 'jalva'. I did pause on this when quoting the sh'er from memory, but did not verify it. This is one of those ash'aar that has been stored in my brain hard disk since childhood, I couldn't even tell you when I had first read/heard it.
>
> >
> > >
> > > 13. sahn-e-gulshan kii talab kuchh nahiiN deevaanoN ko
> > > vast-e-sahraa meN junuuN phuul khilaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > * Very nice!
> > >
> >
> > Gracias!
>
> de nada!! :)
>
> >
> > > 21. kitnaa zarKhez hai tanhayii kaa jangal, mat puuchh
> > > pal meN sau Khaar KhayaaloN ke ugaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > * I really like the phrase, "Khaar KhayaaloN ke", hmmmmm the piecing thoughts....
> > >
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> You are welcome!!
> >
> > >
> > > 24. us kii palkoN ko kabhii tar nahiiN dekhaa ham* ne
> > > jaagte hii jo tamannaa ko sulaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > * I have an issue with 'ham' here, shuldn't it be 'maiN' to preserve consistency?
> >
> > Not necessary.
>
> Ok now, not necessary, but not preferable either?? Since this is probably the only sh'er in the entire ghazal where you are using 'ham', almost everywhere else it is 'maiN'. You will have to convince me why 'ham' here??
> >

No particular known reason. This one may have come to mind like this, and I didn't notice this is the odd ball.

> > >
> > > 27. aqrabaa chhoR gaye saath to Gham kyaa karnaa
> > > mushkil aa jaaye to saayaa* bhii daGhaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > 28. maiN ne kyaa kyaa na sahaa rah ke ujaaloN meN, na puuchh
> > > ab to saayaa* bhii miraa mujh ko Daraa detaa hai
> > >
> > > * I think the word 'saayaa' is repeated too soon
> > >
> >
> > May be. But there was a reason. Although these ash’aar were created at different times, I gave them an order that would have some sort of continuity you talked about in the beginning. One thing I used for that was the common subject.
>
> I'll give you this one, albeit rather reluctantly!
>
> >
> > > 28 reminded me of a sh'er from an 'udaas ghazal' I had once written:
> > >
> > > ik shajar saaye_daar thii maiN to
> > > ab jo patta hile, to Dar jaauuN :-(
> > >
> > > Not a fun phase.
> > >
> >
> > Don’t remember this one. Please share this Ghazal, if it’s not an isolated she’r. It’s a good she’r in terms of composition, but I couldn’t fathom the meaning. Also, “saaye-daar” should be “saaya-daar.” By the way, you may not know this, but this she’r has a cousin. :)
> >
> > vaqt kii dhuup meN tumhaare liye
> > shajar-e-saaya-daar the ham to (Jaun Eliya)
>
> I'll be darned!!! Having read all four books of JE more than once, how come this sh'er is new for me?! Beautiful, I absolutely love it. You know what I am thinking now, I may have actually read this sh'er sometime in the past, the thought may have lingered somewhere in my subconsciousness and triggered my sh'er. I dare not think I can create at JE level, and if I really did, then WOW!
>
> Are you sure you want to read my full 'udaas ghazal'? Warn you, it is rather gloomy, nothing like the Zoya we know most of the time. Maybe writing it was therapeutic in a way, but I have not revisited it in a while. It is buried away somewhere, who knows, digging it up now may actually be even more therapeutic?! :)
>

Why not! Pull this buried treasure out and share it with us.

> > >
> > > 48. pal meiN ho jaatii haiN taariik hazaaroN sadiyaaN
> > > sach kaa jab ek diyaa jhuuT bujhaa detaa hai*
> > >
> > > * I had a slight problem with the flow here, maybe it can be rearranged like:
> > >
> > > jhuuT jab sach kaa diya ek bujhaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> >
> > Not an improvement. Sorry! :(
>
> Fair. Maybe not an improvement, but let me at least explain where I was coming from. I thought it may be better if the words 'diyaa' and 'bujhaa' were closer together?
> >

I understand what you are trying. Both versions have taa'qiid. And I still prefer the original one. It flows better.

> > >
> > > 58. naa.Khudaa ho ki na ho, ham ne yih dekhaa hai sadaa
> > > sab kii kashtii ko Khudaa paar lagaa detaa hai
> > >
> > > *Have you? ham ne aisaa bhii sunaa hai:
> > >
> > > na kar kisi pe bharosaa k kashtiyaaN DuubiiN
> > > Khuda ke hote hue, naaKhuda ke hote hue!
> > >
> >
> > Have experienced this, too.
>
> Haven't we all?! :)
>
> >
> > End of story? :)
> >
> > Well, it had to end somewhere. Didn’t it?
>
> Not necessarily, didn't you say there is a ghazal somewhere on the net with 1000 ash'aar ?? :-))
>
> >
> > > I will probably have to read it again, after a gap, to absorb it and fully appreciate the individual ash'aar.
> > >
> >
> > Please do. I want to note that there is a huge difference between a short story and a novel, both for the writer and the reader. A novel requires a totally different frame of mind to write and read than a short story. You should have enough time to devote to a novel in order to appreciate it. Look at it this way. Going by the average number of ash’aar a typical Ghazal has, you are actually reading 7-8 Ghazals. You need as much time to read and enjoy this collage. As I said earlier, this time I did want to write a novel and see how it goes.
> >
>
> Well put. This collage of yours definitely needs more time and attention than I have yet given it. I will be revisit it, probably more than once.
>
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your time and valuable comments! Patronage of friends like you keeps my tryst with poetry going. Otherwise, as I said in this Ghazal, “varna fan aur suKhan-sanj ko kyaa detaa hai!”
> >
> > niyaazmand,
> > Irfan :Abid:
>
> The pleasure is all mine and I reiterate, please keep writing and keep sharing.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ______Zoya

Thanks you so much once again! Will wait to hear more from you.

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

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Jun 10, 2020, 11:29:02 PM6/10/20

to

On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 1:07:57 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
>
> I shall answer this for you Zoya SaaHibah, on behalf of Irfan SaaHib, as it is an easy question and I like answering easy questions!:-)
>
> Just as: piinaa > pilaanaa
>
> jiinaa > jilaanaa!
>
> Get it?
>

> Naseer

Naseer sahib,

Yes, got it! And while we are at it:

khaana -> khilaanaa
ronaa -> rulaanaa
sonaa -> sulaanaa
chalnaa -> chalaanaa :))

I did think that Irfan sahib was using 'jilaa detaa hai' as 'zindaah kar detaa hai' in his sh'er, but was not sure, thought it could also mean 'raushnii detaa hai'. Honestly, I personally have not seen the use of 'jilaanaa' much in Urdu poetry, hence the confusion. Irfan sahib has clarified this further in his follow up post.

Thank you.

____Zoya

Naseer

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Jun 11, 2020, 6:25:20 AM6/11/20

to

On Thursday, 11 June 2020 02:03:44 UTC+1, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
>
>
> Naseer sb has already mentioned the origin of "jilaa denaa." It truly comes from the verb "jilaanaa," which means "to give life to" as per Platts. I believe this verb itself comes from the word "jilaa," which means "light," but I can't confirm this connection.

> Irfan :Abid:

No, Irfan SaaHib, this verb does not come from "jilaa" which is Arabic and is not connected with light but with life.

A جلا jilā (inf. n. of جلو) , s.f. Presenting (a bride) to her husband adorned and unveiled; — brightening, polishing, scouring; brightness, polish, lustre, splendour, enamel: — jilā baḵẖshnā (-ko), To impart lustre (to), to grace, adorn: — jilā-dār, adj. Bright, lustrous, splendid: — jilā denā (-ko), To brighten, polish; to impart lustre (to), &c, = jilā baḵẖshnā: — jilā-kār, s.m. A polisher, furbisher.

"jilaanaa" is very simply the causative of "jiinaa", in the same way as "piinaa" and "siinaa" have causatives in "pilaanaa" and "silaanaa". Zoya SaaHibah is right in saying that its use is not very common.

Here is an entry from Farhang-i-Aasafiyyah, concerning Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him.

اُن میں مُردوں کو جِلا دینے، ان٘دھے، کوڑھے، لن٘گڑے لُولوں کے اچھّا کر دینے کا معجزہ تھا۔۔۔۔

un meN murdoN ko jilaa dene, aNdhe, koRhe, laNgRe luuloN ke achchhaa kar dene kaa mu3jizah thaa ....

آپ قُم بإذن اللہ کہہ کر مُردے کو جِلایا کرتے تھے

aap "qum bi-izni-llaah"* kah kar murde ko jilaayaa karte the.

* Rise, with God's leave!

Naseer

Zoya

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Jun 11, 2020, 12:09:17 PM6/11/20

to

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 5:25:20 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
>
> A جلا jilā (inf. n. of جلو) , s.f. Presenting (a bride) to her husband adorned and unveiled; — brightening, polishing, scouring; brightness, polish, lustre, splendour, enamel: — jilā baḵẖshnā (-ko), To impart lustre (to), to grace, adorn: — jilā-dār, adj. Bright, lustrous, splendid: — jilā denā (-ko), To brighten, polish; to impart lustre (to), &c, = jilā baḵẖshnā: — jilā-kār, s.m. A polisher, furbisher.
>

> Naseer

Naseer sahib, I know I know you are merely pasting this from some dictionary, so please don't take my comment personally, or even seriously.

Reading the above quoted meaning (s), I can not help noticing that the use of 'jilaa' is starting to sound a bit misogynist. I am now wondering can a groom be called a 'jilaa-daar' after 'he' has been scoured, polished, brightened, enameled and adorned?! :-))

Something to think about. Fun stuff. :---))

____Zoya

Irfan Abid

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Jun 11, 2020, 12:39:37 PM6/11/20

to

Naseer sb, aadaab arz hai!

Thanks for the confirmation!

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Irfan Abid

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Jun 11, 2020, 12:50:19 PM6/11/20

to

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 12:09:17 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 5:25:20 AM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> >
> > A جلا jilā (inf. n. of جلو) , s.f. Presenting (a bride) to her husband adorned and unveiled; — brightening, polishing, scouring; brightness, polish, lustre, splendour, enamel: — jilā baḵẖshnā (-ko), To impart lustre (to), to grace, adorn: — jilā-dār, adj. Bright, lustrous, splendid: — jilā denā (-ko), To brighten, polish; to impart lustre (to), &c, = jilā baḵẖshnā: — jilā-kār, s.m. A polisher, furbisher.
> >
> > Naseer
>
> Naseer sahib, I know I know you are merely pasting this from some dictionary, so please don't take my comment personally, or even seriously.
>

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

> Reading the above quoted meaning (s), I can not help noticing that the use of 'jilaa' is starting to sound a bit misogynist. I am now wondering can a groom be called a 'jilaa-daar' after 'he' has been scoured, polished, brightened, enameled and adorned?! :-))
>

The groom can certainly be called "jilaa-daar," but only for a day. After that all the "jilaa" moves to the better side of the couple and the groom becomes "Khaak-saar!" :)

> Something to think about. Fun stuff. :---))
>
> ____Zoya

By the way, the example I gave you earlier (by K G Raza) is not an appropriate one. On retrospect, I realized that the poet is talking about light, not life, in that she'r. Here is one that does talk about life.

dam-ba-dam mujh pe chalaa kar talvaar
ek patthar ko jilaa dii us ne (Abdul Hameed)

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

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Jun 11, 2020, 4:31:26 PM6/11/20

to

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:50:19 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!
>

> The groom can certainly be called "jilaa-daar," but only for a day. After that all the "jilaa" moves to the better side of the couple and the groom becomes "Khaak-saar!" :)

>

Irfan sahib,

aap kehte haiN to phir Thhiik hii kehte hoNge!

I am not going to dispute this one. :)

>
> By the way, the example I gave you earlier (by K G Raza) is not an appropriate one. On retrospect, I realized that the poet is talking about light, not life, in that she'r. Here is one that does talk about life.
>
> dam-ba-dam mujh pe chalaa kar talvaar
> ek patthar ko jilaa dii us ne (Abdul Hameed)

Are you sure? Think again, maybe this can go either way too.

ho saktaa hai dam-ba-dam talvaar chalne se patthar kii 'scouring' aur 'polishing' ho gayii ho, aur us meiN 'jaan' nahiiN, sirf 'chamak' hii aayii ho?! :)

>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:

_______Zoya

>
> > > > 28 reminded me of a sh'er from an 'udaas ghazal' I had once written:
> > > >
> > > > ik shajar saaye_daar thii maiN to
> > > > ab jo patta hile, to Dar jaauuN :-(
> > > >
> > >

> > > Don’t remember this one. Please share this Ghazal, if it’s not an isolated she’r. It’s a good she’r in terms of composition, but I couldn’t fathom the meaning.
>

> Why not! Pull this buried treasure out and share it with us.
>
>

Irfan sahib, I did retrieve my 'udaas ghazal' yesterday. It is short, only five ash'aar. Even though the qaafia/radiif are rather fertile, I don't want to pad it with more ash'aar, want to preserve it's soul.

Actually, the above quoted sh'er was the first born in this ghazal, and to make its context more clear I am going to tweak it a tiny bit. Basically, in this sh'er, I meant to say that a person who has always been trustful, also stable and nurturing like a big shady tree, goes through some emotional tornado-- shaken to the core, almost loses the balance and thereafter becomes very guarded, fearful of even perceived perils. Heavy stuff! I warned you it is not a fun read.

I don't think I ever posted this ghazal on Alup, but I will now, in a separate thread. It is quite fragile, oh well! :)

> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:

Thank you, for everything,

____Zoya

Raj Kumar

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Jun 12, 2020, 2:31:39 PM6/12/20

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__________________

janaab Irfan sahib:

aap ki yeh taveel Ghazal dekhi to hai magar ise paRhne ki himmat nahiiN ho rahi. Huzuur, aap ne “aao dekhaa na taao” aur baiThe biThaaye aek hi zameen meN 61 ash’aar nikaal Daale --- aap ne yeh bhi na sochaa k kuchh logoN ko, Khaas kar ham jaisoN ko, to 61 tak ki ginti bhi nahiiN aatii. :-)

1. ba-har-Haal, aap ne achchha kiyaa k apni is Ghazal ke ash’aar ki ‘numbering’ kar dii, taa-k is par tabsira karne vaaloN ko aasaani rahe. janaab, isi vaj’h se maiN to apni har Ghazal ke ash’aar ki ‘numbering’ karta huuN, HaalaaN-k meri har Ghazal aap ki is ‘qad-aavar’ Ghazal ke saamne ‘baunii’ lagti hai! :-)

albatta, aaj maiN aap ki is ‘numbering’ se aek Khusuusi faa’ida uThaane ka iraada rakhta huuN.

2. is Ghazal ki tavaalat ko dekh kar, maiN to soch meN paR gayaa tha k is ka kaun sa she’r paRhuuN aur kaun sa na paRhuuN. pahle to yeh socha k maiN har she’r ka pahla misr’a paRhuuN aur duusra chhoR duuN --- magar aisa karne se to maiN beshtar qaafiyoN se haath dho baiThta. phir socha k kyuuN na har she’r ka pahla misr’a chhoR duuN aur duusra paRhuuN --- magar aisa karne se to maiN qaafiyoN ke aNbaar meN dab kar rah jaata.

3. tab Khayaal aayaa k kyuuN na sirf odd-numbered ash’aar ko paRhuuN aur even-numbered ko chhoR duuN yaa phir sirf even-numbered ash’aar ko paRhuuN aur odd-numbered ko chhoR duuN. pahli suurat meN mujhe 31 ash’aar paRhne paRte aur duusri suurat meN 30. ab chunuuN to kaun si suurat chunuuN? vaise bhi, 30-31 ash’aar ka paRhna aur phir un par raaye-zanii karna --- yeh kaam bhi juu-e-sheer laane se kam to nahiiN hai!

4. apni meHnat ko aur kam karne ke liye maiN ne dil hi dil meN socha k odd-even ko maaro goli aur sirf prime-numbered ash’aar ko paRho. ab fikr laaHaq hu’ii k kaun se numbers ‘prime’ hote haiN aur kaun se nahiiN.

Irfan sahib, you won't believe it but there was a time when some people thought that all odd numbers are prime; we now know that this “odd” statement is the best example of “prime” ignorance --- especially when we learnt that, while 2 is a prime number, 1 is not!
My goodness --- “maHv-e-Hairat huuN k dunyaa kyaa se kyaa ho jaaye gi”.

is Khayaal ke taHt, mujhe mundaraja-zail ash’aar paRhne hoN ge:
2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61 ------ a total of 18, which is clearly better than 30 or 31.

5. ab socha k 18 ash’aar ka paRhna aur phir un par raaye-zanii karna bhi to jaan-jokhoN ka kaam hai --- ho na ho, is ginti ko mazeed ghaTaaya jaaye. tab Khayaal aayaa k kyuuN na sirf “consecutive primes” hi ko paRhaa jaaye aur duusroN ko chhoR diyaa jaaye. aisa karne se kam-az-kam ash’aar # 23,37,47,53 se to jaan chhuTe gi aur baaqi kul 14 ash’aar se nipaTna paRe ga!

6. Irfan sahib, ab maiN kis muNh se kahuuN k yeh 14 ash’aar bhi mujh naazuk-mizaaj par giraaN haiN, jab-k Haal hi meN Khud maiN ne aek Ghazal kahi thi, jis meN baraabar 14 ash’aar the. is liye, chaar-o-naachaar mujhe in ash’aar ko paRhna hi hoga aur phir in par raaye-zanii bhi karni hogi. saaf zaahir hai k is shadeed kaam ke liye mujhe kuchh vaqt to lage ga.

Since you wrote your Ghazal over a period of 15 years, it may not be unreasonable for me to ask you if I may finish my task over a period of 15 weeks, which is not even 2% of the time you took on this creation!
kahiye, kyaa Khayaal hai aap ka? :-)

Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar

Zoya

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Jun 12, 2020, 4:12:17 PM6/12/20

to

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 1:31:39 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
>
> janaab Irfan sahib:
>
> aap ki yeh taveel Ghazal dekhi to hai magar ise paRhne ki himmat nahiiN ho rahi. Huzuur, aap ne “aao dekhaa na taao” aur baiThe biThaaye aek hi zameen meN 61 ash’aar nikaal Daale --- aap ne yeh bhi na sochaa k kuchh logoN ko, Khaas kar ham jaisoN ko, to 61 tak ki ginti bhi nahiiN aatii. :-)
>
> 1. ba-har-Haal, aap ne achchha kiyaa k apni is Ghazal ke ash’aar ki ‘numbering’ kar dii, taa-k is par tabsira karne vaaloN ko aasaani rahe. janaab, isi vaj’h se maiN to apni har Ghazal ke ash’aar ki ‘numbering’ karta huuN, HaalaaN-k meri har Ghazal aap ki is ‘qad-aavar’ Ghazal ke saamne ‘baunii’ lagti hai! :-)
>
> albatta, aaj maiN aap ki is ‘numbering’ se aek Khusuusi faa’ida uThaane ka iraada rakhta huuN.
>
> 2. is Ghazal ki tavaalat ko dekh kar, maiN to soch meN paR gayaa tha k is ka kaun sa she’r paRhuuN aur kaun sa na paRhuuN. pahle to yeh socha k maiN har she’r ka pahla misr’a paRhuuN aur duusra chhoR duuN --- magar aisa karne se to maiN beshtar qaafiyoN se haath dho baiThta. phir socha k kyuuN na har she’r ka pahla misr’a chhoR duuN aur duusra paRhuuN --- magar aisa karne se to maiN qaafiyoN ke aNbaar meN dab kar rah jaata.
>
> 3. tab Khayaal aayaa k kyuuN na sirf odd-numbered ash’aar ko paRhuuN aur even-numbered ko chhoR duuN yaa phir sirf even-numbered ash’aar ko paRhuuN aur odd-numbered ko chhoR duuN. pahli suurat meN mujhe 31 ash’aar paRhne paRte aur duusri suurat meN 30. ab chunuuN to kaun si suurat chunuuN? vaise bhi, 30-31 ash’aar ka paRhna aur phir un par raaye-zanii karna --- yeh kaam bhi juu-e-sheer laane se kam to nahiiN hai!
>
> 4. apni meHnat ko aur kam karne ke liye maiN ne dil hi dil meN socha k odd-even ko maaro goli aur sirf prime-numbered ash’aar ko paRho. ab fikr laaHaq hu’ii k kaun se numbers ‘prime’ hote haiN aur kaun se nahiiN.
>
> Irfan sahib, you won't believe it but there was a time when some people thought that all odd numbers are prime; we now know that this “odd” statement is the best example of “prime” ignorance --- especially when we learnt that, while 2 is a prime number, 1 is not!
> My goodness --- “maHv-e-Hairat huuN k dunyaa kyaa se kyaa ho jaaye gi”.
>
> is Khayaal ke taHt, mujhe mundaraja-zail ash’aar paRhne hoN ge:
> 2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61 ------ a total of 18, which is clearly better than 30 or 31.
>
> 5. ab socha k 18 ash’aar ka paRhna aur phir un par raaye-zanii karna bhi to jaan-jokhoN ka kaam hai --- ho na ho, is ginti ko mazeed ghaTaaya jaaye. tab Khayaal aayaa k kyuuN na sirf “consecutive primes” hi ko paRhaa jaaye aur duusroN ko chhoR diyaa jaaye. aisa karne se kam-az-kam ash’aar # 23,37,47,53 se to jaan chhuTe gi aur baaqi kul 14 ash’aar se nipaTna paRe ga!
>
> 6. Irfan sahib, ab maiN kis muNh se kahuuN k yeh 14 ash’aar bhi mujh naazuk-mizaaj par giraaN haiN, jab-k Haal hi meN Khud maiN ne aek Ghazal kahi thi, jis meN baraabar 14 ash’aar the. is liye, chaar-o-naachaar mujhe in ash’aar ko paRhna hi hoga aur phir in par raaye-zanii bhi karni hogi. saaf zaahir hai k is shadeed kaam ke liye mujhe kuchh vaqt to lage ga.
>
> Since you wrote your Ghazal over a period of 15 years, it may not be unreasonable for me to ask you if I may finish my task over a period of 15 weeks, which is not even 2% of the time you took on this creation!
> kahiye, kyaa Khayaal hai aap ka? :-)
>
> Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar

RK sahib,

yeh to 'Number Theory 101' kaa refresher course ho gayaa! pehle to sab sahiih chal rahaa tha, lekin jab aap 'consecutive primes' tak pahunche phir to mujhe bhii zara ruk kar sochnaa paRaa!:)

chaliye maiN aap ka kaam aasaan kiye detii huuN. 14 ash'aar tak aate aate bhii agar 'taviiltar' ghazal zara 'taviil' lag rahii hai to aap kuChh yuuN paRhiye:

1. Multiples of 3: Too many to count!
2. Multiples of 5: 12 ash'aar, Now we are talking!
3. Multiples of 7: 8 ash'aar, Manageable?!
4. Multiples of 11: 5 ash'aar, Can't complain now! :)
5. Multiples of 13: 4 ash'aar, Yes??
6. Multiples of 17: 3 ash'aar, No????
7. Final suggestion: 2 ash'aar, matla or maqta, Yey!!!

See, I made the task so easily doable! :)))

________Zoya

Irfan Abid

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Jun 12, 2020, 8:36:14 PM6/12/20

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muhtaram RK sb, aadaab arz hai!

chuuNki 15 prime number nahiiN hai, aap kam az kam 17 par to raae deN? agar aap ko yih manzuur nahiiN to maiN 15 to kyaa, 13 par bhii raazii huuN. mujhe har haal meN yih Ghazal aap jaise maaya-e-naaz Khariidaar ko bechnii, meraa matlab hai, paRhvaanii hai! :)

mazaaq bar taraf, yih aap kii aa’laa taKhliiqii hiss kaa subuut hai ki is Ghazal par tabsire kii kash-makash par bhii ek dilchsap mazmuun aap ne tahriir kar diyaa. ab mujhe be-sabrii se aap ke “asl” tabsire kaa intizaar hai. vaise jaisaa maiN ne apne Khat kii tamhiid meN arz kiyaa, aap yih kaar-e-Khair qistoN meN anjaam de sakte haiN. meraa anqariib koii aur kaavish aap ahbaab kii Khidmat meN pesh karne kaa koii iraada nahiiN (aur ho bhii kaise, 6-7 Ghazlon kaa quota to maiN ne pehle hii hazm kar liyaa hai!) bihtar yahii hogaa ki filhaal ALUP ke kitchen kii diigar kaar-ravaaii hasb-e-maamuul chaltii rahe, yih Ghazal side burner par dhiimii aaNch par paktii rahe aur ahbaab jab munaasib samjheN, is meN apnaa haath lagaate raheN. :)

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Irfan Abid

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Jun 13, 2020, 12:02:07 PM6/13/20

to

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 10:47:49 PM UTC-4, Afzal A. Khan wrote:

>
>
>
>
> 'Irfan Saheb,
>
> Aap ki yeh taveel ghazal nazar se guzri.
>
> Daad-o-tahseen qubool farmaaiyye.
>

muhtaram Afzal sb, aadaab arz hai!

aap kii giraaN-qadr daad ke liye behad mamnuun huuN. bahut bahut shukriya!

> In sher # 60, the last word in the first misra'
> may perhaps be "jaano", istead of "jaane". If so,
> must be a typo.
>

Actually I did intend to say “jaane.” This verb is for the “suKhan-sanj.” In other words, I am saying the “suKhan-sanj” should consider the appreciation he receives a consolation. If I had addressed the reader, I would have used “jaano.”

> In sher # 12, maybe, "basa leta" would sound better,
> rather than "basa deta".
>

Agree. “basaa lenaa” is more appropriate. But as you can understand, I can’t use it here due to the radiif.

> ********
>
> On a cursory reading, I couldn't quite guess the
> relevance of Ghalib's sher at the end. The operative
> word here is "cursory".
>

You probably didn’t notice the asterisk on she’r #36. That particular she’r is inspired by Ghalib’s quoted she’r.

> **********
>
>
> Ameer Minaaii MarHoom ka ek mash'hoor sher hai :
>
> KashtiyaaN sab ki kinaare pe pahunch jaati haiN
> Naa~KHuda jin ka naheeN, un ka KHuda hota hai
>

> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:
>

aadaab, dosto!

aaj mujh par ek dilchasp inkishaaf huaa. film "Leader" meN Shakeel Badayuni sb kaa ek geet hai "ik shahanshah ne banvaa ke hasiiN taajmahal." is geet ke lyrics dekhte vaqt maaluum huaa ki merii Ghazal ke sher #5 kaa pahlaa misra' huu-ba-huu gaane meN maujuud hai. subhaaN-Allah! yih she'r Ghazal meN bahut baad meN daaKhil huaa (Ghazal post karne se sirf chand hafte qabl), aur ise kahte vaqt "Leader" kaa gaanaa qata'ii mere zihn meN nahiiN thaa. dar-asl mujhe to yih gaanaa puuraa yaad bhii nahiiN hai. Khair, chuuNki Shakeel sb yih misra' mujh se pehle kah chuke haiN, is ke asl maalik vuhii haiN. qaa'raiin se guzaarish hai ki meraa naachiiz she'r Shakeel sb ko Khiraaj-e-tahsiin tasliim kiyaa jaaye.

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Zoya

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Jul 2, 2020, 5:40:29 PM7/2/20

to

On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 at 11:27:02 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:

> >
> > 5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
> > aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai
> >
>

> aadaab, dosto!
>
> aaj mujh par ek dilchasp inkishaaf huaa. film "Leader" meN Shakeel Badayuni sb kaa ek geet hai "ik shahanshah ne banvaa ke hasiiN taajmahal." is geet ke lyrics dekhte vaqt maaluum huaa ki merii Ghazal ke sher #5 kaa pahlaa misra' huu-ba-huu gaane meN maujuud hai. subhaaN-Allah! yih she'r Ghazal meN bahut baad meN daaKhil huaa (Ghazal post karne se sirf chand hafte qabl), aur ise kahte vaqt "Leader" kaa gaanaa qata'ii mere zihn meN nahiiN thaa. dar-asl mujhe to yih gaanaa puuraa yaad bhii nahiiN hai. Khair, chuuNki Shakeel sb yih misra' mujh se pehle kah chuke haiN, is ke asl maalik vuhii haiN. qaa'raiin se guzaarish hai ki meraa naachiiz she'r Shakeel sb ko Khiraaj-e-tahsiin tasliim kiyaa jaaye.
>
> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:

Happens Irfan sahib. It may be a complete coincidence or sometimes we may read/hear a song/ghazal and it may stay somewhere in our subconscious and then may suddenly appear inadvertently.

However, I have never given Shakeel full credit for this song either. I have always felt that the opening sentence is the flip side of/inspired by the classic Sahir nazm "ik shehanshaah ne banvaa ke hasiiN Tajmahal, ham ghariiboN kii muhabbat kaa uRaayaa hai mazaaq".

And now looking at the misra' again, "ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai", I am somehow thinking of Obaidullah Aleem:

kuChh ishq thaa, kuChh majbuurii thii, so maiN ne jiivan vaar diyaa
maiN kaisaa zindah aadmii thaa, ik shaKhs ne mujh ko maar diyaa

"ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai"?? Hmmmmm......

_____Zoya

Afzal A. Khan

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Jul 3, 2020, 1:55:03 AM7/3/20

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I was wondering what exactly induced you to visit the film clip of
"Leader" in the first place.

One could be forgiven for assuming that, maybe, someone pointed
out the similarity (through e-mail perhaps), thereby alerting you
about it. Whatever......

************

Sometime back, we had a discussion about another film "Pyaar
Mohabbat" and a song from that film {"mil gayee, mil gayee"}.

During that discussion, I had mentioned that I had seen the film
in Bombay's "Maratha Mandir" Cinema Hall (in 1966, I think).

Interestingly, this film "Leader" was also seen by me in that very
same Cinema Hall {"Maratha Mandir"}. The time frame was perhaps
March 1964, though the film might have been released a little
earlier. I think I might have been away from Bombay temporarily
and then saw the film on my return. Whatever...........

************

I think "Leader" was a very 'disjointed' film; and just got
completed somehow or the other. However, it had a few pleasant
songs like "Tere husn ki kya t'areef karooN", "Daiyya re daiyya,
laaj mohe laage" etc.

************

Shakeel Badayuni's lyrics for the song in question were more in
line with the emotional connect between the monument and what it
really represented --- a symbol of Immortal Love. Something that
transcends life itself.

Innumerable stories are told about the reaction of famous
dignitaries who visited the edifice. An Indian Viceroy's
wife reportedly told her husband that if he could assure her of
building a similar monument for her, she was prepared to die
at that very moment.

What is more, we should be thankful to another great Viceroy,
Lord Curzon, who ensured that the Taj was restored to its original
glory, by clearing up its unkempt state. It had been in a state
of neglect and disrepair for several decades and had been
overgrown with trees, weeds etc.

************

In recent times too, the current ruling dispensation has come
under fire from the Supreme Court of India for tarnishing its
beauty and grandeur (and that too, rather deliberately). Agra is
located in an industrial belt and there are many many industries
that are responsible for adding to the industrial pollution.

I believe an international Foundation is also engaged in efforts
to keep intact its original grandeur. {The Agha Khan Foundation
perhaps ?}

************

Since about 1904, a hindu religious organization (Radhaswami
Satsang) has been trying to build a marble monument in a suburb
of Agra --- Dayal Bagh --- perhaps as a rival to the Taj.

Thousands of tons of marble have already been used up but the
monument has still not been completed. Parts of the building are
built and then demolished. I myself have seen the wide area where
ruins of marble slabs were lying all over. I do not know the
present stage of construction. Interestingly, many of these slabs
lying around have inscriptions in Urdu !

Dayal Bagh is just around 5 miles from Agra.

************
************

In 1973, a remarkably sensitive film was released in India. Its
title was "Garm Hawa", where the leading protagonist (as opposed
to a routine romantic hero) was Balraj Sahni. Another well-known
actor Farooq Shaikh also played a pivotal role. Unfortunately,
both are no more. May their souls rest in peace. The film, set
in Agra, is worth seeing. It may be available on YouTube. I
would urge all ALUPers (and others too) to see this film.

************

But, sadly, not all views or comments relating to this World
Heritage site have been as laudatory, or even 'charitable'.

Around the mid-sixties, a notorious writer P. N. Oak wrote a book
entitled "The Taj Mahal Is A Hindu Palace". Of course, the book
was cast on the dustbin of history.

************

A politician (I don't remember his name --- perhaps Vinay Katiar)
said : "This (monument) was built by a Rajput Raja and then he
presented it to Shah Jahan."

Just as Rome was not built in a day, Taj Mahal too took about 22
years to be completed. Its architect was one Qazi 'Isa. The
Taj's construction began in 1632 and it was completed by 1653.
Agra had been the capital city of the Mughal Empire since the
days of Akbar.

it is ludicrous to suggest that a Rajput Raja could have been
involved in its construction continuously for 22 years, right
under the nose of the Emperor Shah Jehan.

************
************

"Shah Jahan" was a musical film made in 1946, starring K.L.
Saigal. The story line was, of course, fictitious. But it
did end up up with the construction of the monument. IIRC,
a youthful Rehman also acted in the movie. {He did several
memomorale films later, like "Chaudhvin Ka Chand", "Sahib,
Bibi, Ghulam" etc.}

This 1946 film had a fine musical score by the Maestro Syed
Naushad Ali Saheb. At that time, I happened to be on a visit to
the central Indian city of Mhow (near Indore). It was and
continues to be a military cantonment. A new cinema hall had just
been constructed there. Its name was Dreamland. And I remember
seeing the film "Shah Jahan" there.

************

Coming back to the song from the film "Leader" :

It has been beautifully picturized. In early morning hues.
Vyjayanthimala looked beautiful and put over a few graceful
dances. Dancing was in fact her forte.

************

Dilip Kumar and Vyjayanthimala worked together in 5 or 6 films,
starting with "Devdas" in 1955. "Naya Daur" was released in 1957.
"Madhumati" (1958) was a blockbuster, embellished by Bimal Roy's
sensitive direction and Salil Chowdhury's music. Then came
"Paigham" in 1960, where Dilip Kumar played a Cycle Rickshaw
Driver. "Leader" in 1964. And "Sangharsh" in 1969.

Of course, I have seen all these films. I recall seeing
"Sangharsh" in Secunderabad (Hyderabad's twin city).

************

Rumour has it that the two of them (V & DK) were in love with each
other. And Dilip Kumar even took her to meet his family members.
But, when they didn't approve of the match, both decided to go
their different ways. Dilip married Saira Banu in 1966 and they
have led a happy life since (with just one hiccup in between !).
He is now 97 and Saira seems to be taking extremely good care of
him. Let us wish both of them a very long life.

*************

The song has been beautifully composed by Naushad in Raag Lalit.
Somehow, I can't seem to find many songs in Indian films based on
this Raag. Offhand, I can recall only one, from the 1960 film
"Kalpana", with music by O.P. Nayyar ---> "Tu hai mera prem
devta", picturized on heroine Padmini and her younger siste Ragini
(who played a minor role in the film). But the voices are those
of two prominent male playback singers Mohammed Rafi and Manna
Dey.

Ragini died at the relatively young age of 39, in 1976. She had
breast cancer. Padmini, her elder sister, passed away in
September 2006, at the age of 74.

After leaving the film industry, she had settled in the US and had
started a dancing school, probably in New Jersey.

I remember seeing a TV interview of hers, where she said that she
was going to India for a few months. And promised the interviewer
(and the TV audience) that she would be back in a couple of
months' time.

Lekin, "maut ka ek din mu'ayyan hai

Afzal

Raj Kumar

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Jul 3, 2020, 8:08:43 PM7/3/20

to

On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 8:15:46 PM UTC-7, Irfan Abid wrote:
> aadaab, dosto!
>

> aaj aap ke liye ek aisii taKhliiq le kar haazir huaa huuN, jo haftoN aur mahiinoN nahiiN, balki saaloN meN mukammal huii. dar-asl huaa yuuN ki kayii saal qabl ek zamiin zihn meN aayii aur us meN chand ash’aar ho gaye. maiN ne hasb-e-ma’muul vuh ash’aar bayaaz meN raqam kar ke nazar-e-saanii ke liye chhoR diye. un ash’aar par dobaara Ghaur karne ke liye jab maiN lauTaa to kuchh aur ash’aar ho gaye. yih silsilaa chaltaa rahaa aur jab Khatm huaa to kul 61 ash’aar par mushtamil ek Ghazal tayyaar thii. ash’aar to aur bhii huey the, lekin vuh maiN Ghazal meN shaamil nahiiN kar rahaa huuN. yih zamiin aisii zarKhez hai ki agar maiN kuchh aur vaqt detaa to shaayad chand ash’aar aur ho sakte the. lekin maiN ab aur intizaar nahiiN karnaa chaahtaa, aur is kaavish ko aap ke saamne pesh karnaa chaahtaa huuN.
>
> pehle meraa Khayaal thaa ki is Ghazal ko qistoN meN pesh karuuN taaki qaara’iin ke liye ise jazb karnaa aasaan ho jaaye. lekin diqqat yih thiii ki is tarah se Ghazal bikhar jaatii. aaKhir meN yih tai paayaa ki tamaam ash’aar ek saath chaspaaN kar diye jaayeN. albatta aap yih Ghazal qistoN meN paRh sakte haiN, aur qistoN hii meN apnii raae bhii de sakte haiN. lekin raae diijiyegaa zaruur. mujhe intizaar rahegaa. aap kii sahuulat ke liye maiN ne ash’aar ke aa’daad raqam kar diye haiN.
>
> Ghazal
>
> 1. husn ko jab koii parde meN chhupaa detaa hai
> ba.Khudaa us kii kashish aur baRhaa detaa hai
>
> 2. ishq parde ko baharhaal uThaa detaa hai
> jalva-e-husn vuh aashiq ko dikhaa detaa hai
>
> 3. husn vuh zahr hai jo mai kaa nashaa detaa hai
> maut kii niiNd meN aashiq ko sulaa detaa hai
>
> 4. ishq iksiir hai, murde ko jilaa detaa hai
> yaanii soye huey insaaN ko jagaa detaa hai
>

> 5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
> aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai
>

___________________

***janaab Irfan sahib:

kufr TuuTaa Khudaa Khudaa karke --- aaKhirish maiN ne aap ki yeh taveel Ghazal paRh hi Daali aur is se be-Hadd mut’assir hu’aa. Huzuur, itni lambi Ghazal meN aksar auqaat bahut se ash’aar “bharti ke” hu’aa karte haiN, magar aap ke haaN aisa nahiiN hu’aa. mere nazdeek yeh baat aap ke liye baa’is-e-faKhr honi chaahiye!

mujhe ash’aar #4,5,7,13,16,19,20,21,26,29,32,34,38,41,48,51,55,57 aur 61 ziyaada pasaNd aaye haiN; in par aap ko Dher saari mubaarak-baad. aur aap ke maqt’e ki tashkeel to Khusuusi taur se qaabil-e-sad-taHseen hai.

albatta, she’r #32 par aek savaal hai --- voh yeh k yahaaN jo izaafat “rah.rau-e-shauq” barti ga’ii hai, us meN lafz rah.rau ki “ending vowel sound” ko sukeRna paR rahaa hai, jo Farsi alfaaz ke liye ravaa nahiiN hai. I may be wrong but here “rah.rav-e-shauq” would fit better. is baat ka aHsaas mujhe mundaraja-zail she’r se hu’aa jo maiN ne bachpan meN sunaa tha aur jise sunaane vaale ne yuuN paRhaa tha:

rah.rav-e-tashna-lab, na ghabraanaa
ab liyaa chashma-e-baqaa tuu ne!

I’ll appreciate to hear your view on this point.

Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***

Naseer

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Jul 4, 2020, 4:50:00 AM7/4/20

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On Saturday, 4 July 2020 01:08:43 UTC+1, Raj Kumar wrote:

> albatta, she’r #32 par aek savaal hai --- voh yeh k yahaaN jo izaafat “rah.rau-e-shauq” barti ga’ii hai, us meN lafz rah.rau ki “ending vowel sound” ko sukeRna paR rahaa hai, jo Farsi alfaaz ke liye ravaa nahiiN hai. I may be wrong but here “rah.rav-e-shauq” would fit better. is baat ka aHsaas mujhe mundaraja-zail she’r se hu’aa jo maiN ne bachpan meN sunaa tha aur jise sunaane vaale ne yuuN paRhaa tha:
>
> rah.rav-e-tashna-lab, na ghabraanaa
> ab liyaa chashma-e-baqaa tuu ne!
>
> I’ll appreciate to hear your view on this point.
>
> Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***

muHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

mujhe aap se sau fii-sad ittifaaq hai kih rah-rav-i-tishnah-lab hii honaa chaahiye.

Pakistan meN rel-gaaRiyoN ke muxtalif naam haiN. yaqiin-an Hindustan meN bhii aisaa hii ho gaa. ek kaa naam "tez rau" hai jis kii "tez-ravii" par railway vaaloN ko baRaa faxr hai, passenger maaneN yaa nah maaneN!:-)

Naseer

Irfan Abid

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Jul 5, 2020, 11:51:21 AM7/5/20

to

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

You are right, this line may have been somewhere in the very back of my mind. Regarding Sahir vs Shakeel, I am not sure if you know that Sahir was known to take on other poets. The Tajmahal nazm/song is perhaps the only instance of somebody else taking on the mighty Sahir ( https://www.bobbytalkscinema.com/recentpost/When-SAHIR-LUDHIANVI-answered--1417 ) I personally think Shakeel B did a pretty good job.

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Irfan Abid

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Jul 5, 2020, 12:02:29 PM7/5/20

to

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 1:55:03 AM UTC-4, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> On 7/1/2020 11:27 PM, Irfan Abid wrote:
>
>
> > On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 11:15:46 PM UTC-4, Irfan Abid wrote:
> >> aadaab, dosto!
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> 5. ishq insaan ko insaan banaa detaa hai
> >> aaKhir-e-kaar use Khud se milaa detaa hai
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> niyaazmand,
> >> Irfan :Abid:
> >>
> >
> > aadaab, dosto!
> >
> > aaj mujh par ek dilchasp inkishaaf huaa. film "Leader" meN Shakeel Badayuni sb kaa ek geet hai "ik shahanshah ne banvaa ke hasiiN taajmahal." is geet ke lyrics dekhte vaqt maaluum huaa ki merii Ghazal ke sher #5 kaa pahlaa misra' huu-ba-huu gaane meN maujuud hai. subhaaN-Allah! yih she'r Ghazal meN bahut baad meN daaKhil huaa (Ghazal post karne se sirf chand hafte qabl), aur ise kahte vaqt "Leader" kaa gaanaa qata'ii mere zihn meN nahiiN thaa. dar-asl mujhe to yih gaanaa puuraa yaad bhii nahiiN hai. Khair, chuuNki Shakeel sb yih misra' mujh se pehle kah chuke haiN, is ke asl maalik vuhii haiN. qaa'raiin se guzaarish hai ki meraa naachiiz she'r Shakeel sb ko Khiraaj-e-tahsiin tasliim kiyaa jaaye.
> >
> > niyaazmand,
> > Irfan :Abid:
>
>

muhtaram Afzal sb, aadaab arz hai!

>

> I was wondering what exactly induced you to visit the film clip of
> "Leader" in the first place.
>
> One could be forgiven for assuming that, maybe, someone pointed
> out the similarity (through e-mail perhaps), thereby alerting you
> about it. Whatever......
>
> ************
>

In fact, this was a pure coincidence. I keep looking up Rekhta.org for different Ghazals, nazms and sometime specific words and phrases. One day I saw this song included in the search results as a nazm by Shakeel B. Just opened it to read it and wow, the misra in question was right there. The thing that is interesting, and almost spooky, is that this happened so soon after the birth of my sher.

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

Irfan Abid

unread,

Jul 5, 2020, 12:29:50 PM7/5/20

to

muhtaram RK sb, aadaab arz hai!

> kufr TuuTaa Khudaa Khudaa karke --- aaKhirish maiN ne aap ki yeh taveel Ghazal paRh hi Daali aur is se be-Hadd mut’assir hu’aa. Huzuur, itni lambi Ghazal meN aksar auqaat bahut se ash’aar “bharti ke” hu’aa karte haiN, magar aap ke haaN aisa nahiiN hu’aa. mere nazdeek yeh baat aap ke liye baa’is-e-faKhr honi chaahiye!
>

zahe naseeb! aap ke yih kalimaat mere liye ek besh-bahaa aizaaz haiN.

> mujhe ash’aar #4,5,7,13,16,19,20,21,26,29,32,34,38,41,48,51,55,57 aur 61 ziyaada pasaNd aaye haiN; in par aap ko Dher saari mubaarak-baad. aur aap ke maqt’e ki tashkeel to Khusuusi taur se qaabil-e-sad-taHseen hai.
>

navaazish, karam, shukriya, mahrbaanii!

> albatta, she’r #32 par aek savaal hai --- voh yeh k yahaaN jo izaafat “rah.rau-e-shauq” barti ga’ii hai, us meN lafz rah.rau ki “ending vowel sound” ko sukeRna paR rahaa hai, jo Farsi alfaaz ke liye ravaa nahiiN hai. I may be wrong but here “rah.rav-e-shauq” would fit better. is baat ka aHsaas mujhe mundaraja-zail she’r se hu’aa jo maiN ne bachpan meN sunaa tha aur jise sunaane vaale ne yuuN paRhaa tha:
>
> rah.rav-e-tashna-lab, na ghabraanaa
> ab liyaa chashma-e-baqaa tuu ne!
>
> I’ll appreciate to hear your view on this point.
>
> Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
>

aap ne bajaa farmaayaa. izaafat ke saath barte jaane par lafz-e-"rah.rau" kii maktuubii shakl to vuhii rahtii hai, lekin malfuuzii shakl badal jaatii hai. Roman meN ise "rah.rav-e-shauq" hii likhnaa chaahiye.

ek martaba phir aap kii nazar-e-inaayat aur giraaN-qadr daad kaa bahut bahut shukriya!

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

nageshsahib

unread,

Jul 6, 2020, 6:17:03 PM7/6/20

to

From Professor Pritchett's website, a word for the experience you had:

तवारुद (coincidence) — The unintentional duplication of another poet’s verse. == {60,4} // {307x,7}

tawaarud is the transliteration, assuming the Nagri form is correct.

Nagesh