what does 'nang' mean
v
in the sense of naked. but then i read the couplet by nawaab sheftaa
hum taalib e shuhrat hai.n hame nang se kyaa kaam
badnaam agar honge to kyaa naam na hogaa
I assumed the word 'nang' also means 'sharm' or shame. so never delved
further. but recently was watching a punjabi comedy where a character
keeps repeating
juttii tang te janwaaii nang zindagii bhar tang karde ne (or something
like that)
what does 'nang' mean here? shameless?
in that case the 'nang' in the couplet means something else.
where else could i have gone for experts in punjabi plus urdu. so the
donkey is back to square one:)
thanks in advance
ravi
Afzal A. Khan
Now, I don't know any Punjabi, but the word in Urdu means someone
whose acts and deeds (and behaviour in general) is utterly
shameful. For instance :
NaNg-e-KHaandaan : Someone who has been or is the cause of
shame for the entire family
NaNg-e-aslaaf : Someone who is the cause of shame for all
his ancestors.
Sometimes, the word is also used as a term of personal modesty
e.g. a poet may say in mock self-abjuration : "MaiN kya aur
meri shaa'iree kya, maiN to naNg-e-sh'uara hooN".
Afzal
arahim
> for a long while i used to believe the word 'nang' could only be used
> in the sense of naked. but then i read the couplet by nawaab sheftaa
>
> hum taalib e shuhrat hai.n hame nang se kyaa kaam
> badnaam agar honge to kyaa naam na hogaa
>
Looks like shefta had the foresight to see reality TV.
Vijay
Ravi sahib, in the Panjabi jumla that you have posted, naNg has a
totally different meaning than the Urdu naNg. 'jawaii naNg' means a
penniless son-in-law. So, in Panjab, if you are 'naNg', it means you
are without any assets (which, I guess, could be a source of shame).
It is a word which does not necessarily represent literate Panjabi,
but more a colloquial usage. A relaed word is naNg-malaNg, someone who
has given up on material and other worldly assets.
In Urdu, however, it has the meaning as explained by Afzal Sahib.
BTW, I have always known the first misra as:
ham shohrat-e-taalib haiN (although taalib-e-shohrat deos make (?more)
sense), and second as:
badnaam 'jo' hoNge. 'agar' may (I am not sure) throw it off meter a
little, contracting the 'hoNge' to 'hoNg'!
Best regards,
Vijay
Vijay
'agar' may in fact be OK, meterwise. Perhaps an expert can confirm one
way or the other?
TIA,
Vijay
arahim
The only way this makes perfect sense is if shefta was a member of the
talibaan. In which case too the she'r would make sense.
> sense), and second as:
> badnaam 'jo' hoNge. 'agar' may (I am not sure) throw it off meter a
> little, contracting the 'hoNge' to 'hoNg'!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Vijay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rajiv Chakravarti
aadaab Ravi-sahab:
I am not sure if you aware of the wonderful online Platts/Steingass
dictionaries, which are immensely helpful to get you started and then
continue asking here, if necessary.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.9:1:374.platts
a) In the Shefta couplet, the meaning is nothing more than "honour/
esteem."
b) Meaning:
"I seek fame, what do I need with honour
Even if I get infamy, won't I be famous!"
c) Metrically, there is "no" issue with the couplet as stated by Ravi-
sahab.
Regards,
Rajiv
v
wrote:
> On Oct 14, 12:07 am, v <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > for a long while i used to believe the word 'nang' could only be used
> > in the sense of naked. but then i read the couplet by nawaab sheftaa
>
> > hum taalib e shuhrat hai.n hame nang se kyaa kaam
> > badnaam agar honge to kyaa naam na hogaa
>
> > I assumed the word 'nang' also means 'sharm' or shame. so never delved
> > further. but recently was watching a punjabi comedy where a character
> > keeps repeating
>
> > juttii tang te janwaaii nang zindagii bhar tang karde ne (or something
> > like that)
>
> > what does 'nang' mean here? shameless?
>
> > in that case the 'nang' in the couplet means something else.
>
> > where else could i have gone for experts in punjabi plus urdu. so the
> > donkey is back to square one:)
>
> > thanks in advance
>
> > ravi
>
> aadaab Ravi-sahab:
>
> I am not sure if you aware of the wonderful online Platts/Steingass
> dictionaries, which are immensely helpful to get you started and then
> continue asking here, if necessary.
>
>
> a) In the Shefta couplet, the meaning is nothing more than "honour/
> esteem."
>
> b) Meaning:
> "I seek fame, what do I need with honour
> Even if I get infamy, won't I be famous!"
>
> c) Metrically, there is "no" issue with the couplet as stated by Ravi-
> sahab.
>
> Regards,
> Rajiv
thanks to all. very interesting word. it means - honour as well as
infamy in urdu and in punjabi it means penniless.
rajiv saab i did check platts but i guess i ended up on another nang
which said naked was the meaning.
asad
jaafar az bangaal saadiq az dakan
naNg-e-diiN, naNg-e-qaum, naNg-e-watan.
Much later some poet parodied it in Urdu as:
gaaNdhii az gujraat, bhaave az dakan
naNg-e-paaNv, naNg-e-sar, naNg-e-badan
Regards,
Asad
Afzal A. Khan
> Asad
Asad Saheb (Or is it As'ad ?)
Since one would not like to confuse people any further
than "is necessary", can we transcribe the second line as :
NaNge paaNv, naNge sar, naNge badan ?
Afzal
Naseer
I have also seen this shi'r by Iqbal (I believe it is from Javed Nama)
in a slightly different format.
Ja'far az BaNgaal va Saadiq az dakkan
naNg-i-aadam, naNg-i-diiN, nang-i-vatan
Ja'far of Bengal and Sadiq from the Deccan (are) a disgrace to
mankind, a disgrace to religion and a disgrace (to their) country.
Naseer
Rajiv Chakravarti
>
> I have also seen this shi'r by Iqbal (I believe it is from Javed Nama)
> in a slightly different format.
>
> Ja'far az BaNgaal va Saadiq az dakkan
> naNg-i-aadam, naNg-i-diiN, nang-i-vatan
>
> Ja'far of Bengal and Sadiq from the Deccan (are) a disgrace to
> mankind, a disgrace to religion and a disgrace (to their) country.
>
> Naseer
Without having read the original verse, I will still go with Naseer
sahab's version, as it is metrically correct -- where as both
mentioned by As'ad sahab fail this criteria. Afzal sahab's addition
makes for an interesting twist! :)
RC
arahim
All meanings follow from the idea of nakedness. Shame and honour both
are related to nakedness. This is the same as one would say sharam ki
baat hai but then there is also be-sharam (without honour).
> rajiv saab i did check platts but i guess i ended up on another nang
> which said naked was the meaning.- Hide quoted text -
arahim
to illustrate:
be-nang o nam hai nang e watan
sharam be-sharam ko aati nahin
>
>
> > rajiv saab i did check platts but i guess i ended up on another nang
> > which said naked was the meaning.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
asad
Bilkul durust Afzal Saheb,
I realized after posting it, but by then "teer nikal chukaa thaa
kamaan se"
It is Asad ur Rahman Kidwai {( اسد الرحمن قدوائی) not As'ad
"Saheb"} :)
Also, Naseer Saheb's "nang-e-aadam" version seems to be the correct
one.
Asad
deedawar
think shirtless, i.e. someone who has not even enough to put a shirt
on his back. It is all to do with leaving one self exposed to
hardship and ridicule, be it because of t nakedness or pennilessness.
farah
UVR
wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, RC saahib, but the second couplet
posted by Asad saahib does not really fail said criteria. The trick
is to read the word "paaNv" as "paaoN" with an extended "oN", which is
quite within the accepted norms of Urdu pronunciation and poetic use,
leading this word to be scanned as 'two long syllables' (2-2).
-UVR.
Rajiv Chakravarti
Shri UVR: Your input here is quite welcome. the (2-2) scansion of "paa-
oN" was not readily accessible to my recollection, during the time I
responded here. Even now, I am not able to recall of the top of my
head places where this scansion is used ( my brain is currently only
stuck at the "seemtan ke paaoN" Ghazal, which is not the same as being
talked about here). So, I humbly request you to share some couplets
with the (2-2) paaoN -- just for completeness of this discussion.
I'll look forward to replies on my request from you and all others
here.
As a side note -- someone in this thread has (IIRC) confirmed the
"nang-e-aadam" to be the "correct" version of the couplet under
discussion. Thank you for the confirmation.
RC
Naseer
translation, by the famous Cambridge University Persian scholar,
Arthur.A.Arberry. Unfortunately, nuun-i-Ghunnah is not indicated in
the Farsi text. This is taken from "Javed Nama" (The Book of
Eternity).The "personas" incorporated in this book are:
RUMI, the Sage of Rum, Persian poet and mystic
ZARVAN, the Spirit of Time and Space
JAHAN-DOST, an Indian ascetic
SAROSH, a Mazdean angel
GAUTAMA, the Buddha
DANCING-GIRL
AHRIMAN, the Zoroastrian Principle of Evil
ZOROASTER
TOLSTOY
IFRANGIN, an embodiment of Europe
ABU JAHL, an enemy of the Prophet Mohammed
JAMAL AL-DIN AFGHANI, an Afghan religious reformer
SA‘ID HALIM PASHA, a Turkish statesman and reformer
ZINDA-RUD, title bestowed on the author
MARDUKH, ancient idol
BAAL, ancient idol
PHARAOH
KITCHENER OF KHARTOUM
SUDANESE DERVISH, the Mahdi of Sudan
MARTIAN ASTRONOMER
MARTIAN PROPHETESS
HALLAJ, Persian mystic and martyr
GHALIB, Indian poet
QURRAT AL-AIN, Babi poetess and martyr
SATAN, a fallen angel called Iblis
SPIRIT OF INDIA
SADIQ, JAAFAR, Indian traitors
NIETZSCHE
SAYYID ALI HAMADANI, a Persian mystic known as Shah-i Hamadan
TAHIR GHANI, a poet of Kashmir
BARTARI-HARI, an ancient poet of India, Bhartrihari
NADIR, eighteenth century Shah of Persia
ABDALI, founder of modern Afghanistan, Ahmad Shah Durrani
NASIR-I KHUSRAU, an early Persian poet
MARTYR-KING, Tippoo Sultan of Mysore
HOURIS, maidens of Paradise
BEAUTY, an Aspect of God
.................................................................................................................
فلک زحل
ارواح رذیلہ کہ با ملک و ملت غداری کردہ و دوزخ ایشانرا قبول نکردہ
پیر رومی آن امام راستان
آشنای ہر مقام راستان
گفت ای گردون نورد سخت کوش
دیدہ ئی آن عالم زنار پوش
آنچہ بر گرد کمر پیچیدہ است
از دم استارہ ئی دزدیدہ است
از گران سیری خرام او سکون
ہر نکو از حکم او زشت و زبون
پیکر او گرچہ از آب و گل است
بر زمینش پا نہادن مشکل است
صد ہزار افرشتۂ تندر بدست
قہر حق را قاسم از روز الست
درہ پیھم می زند سیارہ را
از مدارش بر کند سیارہ را
عالمی مطرود و مردود سپہر
صبح او مانند شام از بخل مہر
منزل ارواح بے یوم النشور
دوزخ از احراقشان آمد نفور
اندرون او دو طاغوت کہن
روح قومی کشتہ از بہر دو تن
جعفر از بنگال و صادق از دکن
ننگ آدم ، ننگ دین ، ننگ وطن
نا قبول و ناامید و نامراد
ملتی از کارشان اندر فساد
ملتی کو بند ہر ملت گشاد
ملک و دینش از مقام خود فتاد
می ندانے خطۂ ہندوستان
آن عزیز خاطر صاحبدلان
خطہ ای ہر جلوہ اش گیتی فروز
در میان خاک و خون غلطد ہنوز
در گلش تخم غلامی را کہ کشت
این ہمہ کردار آن ارواح زشت
در فضای نیلگون یکدم بایست
تا مکافات عمل بینی کہ چیست
............................................................................................................
THE SPHERE OF SATURN
The vile spirits which have betrayed the nation and
have been rejected by Hell
The Sage of Rum, leader of the righteous,
familiar with all the stages of the righteous,
spoke: ‘Hard-toiling traveller of the heavens,
do you see yonder world that wears a girdle?
That which it has twisted around its waist 2545
it stole from the tail of a star.
So heavy of pace it is, its motion seems stationary;
under its rule, every good is turned to evil and base.
Though its form is fashioned of water and clay
it is difficult to set foot on its soil. 2550
A myriad angels, thunder in hand,
dispensing God’s wrath since the Day of Alast,
continually castigate the planet
and dislodge it from its pivot.
A world rejected and repelled by heaven, 2555
its morn is as evening, the sun is so grudging.
It is the lodging-place of spirits that shall know no resurrection,
which Hell itself shrank from burning:
therein live two ancient demons
who slew a people’s soul to save their skins, 2560
Jaafar of Bengal and Sadiq of Deccan,
shame to mankind, religion and fatherland,
unaccepted, despairing, undesired,
a nation ruined by their handiwork.
A nation, which had loosed the bonds of every nation, 2565
thus lost its high sovereignty and its faith.
Do you not know that the land of India,
dear to the heart of every sensitive soul,
a land whose every manifestation lit up the world,
now grovels amid dust and blood? 2570
Who sowed in its soil the seed of slavery?
All this is the handiwork of those evil spirits.
Pause a moment in the azure expanse
that you may see the retribution for their deeds.
.......................................................................................................
Naseer