"Nostalgia" Urdu meN kyaa hai/honaa chaahiye?
Naseer
ek Haaliyah laRii meN janaab-i-Zafar Sahib ne farmaayaa..
"*Nostalgia kaa tarjuma kisi saahib ne "yaadash baKhairiya" kiyaa
hai. Naseer saahib, aap kyaa kehte haiN beech is mas'ale ke?".
javaab meN maiN ne 'arz kiyaa..
"bahut achchaa savaal kiyaa hai aap ne! pichhle ek aadh ghaNTe se is
mauzuu par dimaaGh dauRaa rahaa huuN. vuh ab is maqaam pih aa kar ruk
gayaa hai kih Zafar Sahib is 'unvaan ko le kar ek na'ii laRii kaa
aaGhaaz kareN to ham sab log apnii apnii raa'e deN ge kih Urdu meN
"Nostalgia" kyaa hai yaa kyaa honaa chaahiey. "yaadish baKhairiya" kii
baat chiit bhii vahiiN ho gii".
unhoN ne merii tajviiz par 'amal to nahiiN kiyaa magar aisaa karne se
mujh par ko'ii paabandii bhii nahiiN lagaa'ii!:-)
Nostalgia kyaa hai? is lafz kaa manba' Yuunaanii zabaan hai aur is ke
ma'nii haiN "vatan-vaapasii ke liye taRap". lekin in ma'noN meN yih
lafz ab kam hii isti'maal hotaa hai. ab markazii Khayaal "a yearning
for the past (good old days), often in idealized form" rah gayaa hai.
shaayad Ghalib kaa yih shi'r isii lafz kii 'akkaaii kartaa hai.
jii DhuuNDtaa hai phir vahii furst kih raat din
baiThe raheN tasavvur-i-jaanaaN kiye hu'e
farz kar liijiye kih "Anjuman-i-taraqqii-i-Urdu", "Nostalgia" ke ham-
ma'nii lafz kii talaash meN hai. is anjuman ne muKhtalif adabii
tanziimoN aur daanish-gaahoN ko Khat bheje haiN kih aap log hameN is
lafz kaa Urdu mutabaadil bhejeN. ek Khat "ALUP" ke "Daak-sanduuq" meN
bhii aa pahuNchaa hai. hamaarii taraf se javaab kyaa honaa chaahiye?
zaruurii nahiiN kih is ke ma'nii ham ek hii lafz meN adaa kareN (agar
aisaa ho gayaa to yih mu'jize se kam nahiiN ho gaa!). ek murakkab
(compound) lafz kaa ziyaadah imkaan hai.
az raah-i-karam apnii apnii aaraa' yahaaN pesh kiijiye. jo lafz Zafar
Sahib munaasib samjheN ge, vuh ham anjuman vaaloN ko bhej deN ge.
Khair-Khvaah,
Naseer
B.G.M.
my suggestion is,
"maazii-aafreenii"
=======================================================
Afzal A. Khan
"Maazi~KH(w)aast'gaari". Just a suggestion.
Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
Following up :
Or simply "Yaad-e-maazi". Ya phir : "yaad-o-aarzoo-e-maazi".
These days, the English word (which I believe has its roots in
Latin) has a connotation which is tinged with sadness, a sense
of dissatisfaction or disappointment with the present circums-
tances. I think the following Urdu misra' captures this sense
very well :
Yaad-e-maazi 'azaab hai yaa'rab
At the same time, I believe the Urdu equivalent should reflect
a sort of 'neutral' stance. "Happy" memories should also be
covered, along with 'sad' memories. Just my view.
Afzal
Naseer
Please do not feel restricted to only one submission. You may put
forward as many suggestions as you wish.
Naseer
v
I feel compound words should be avoided. otherwise what is wrong with
puraani yaade.n
Naseer
muHtaram Ravi Sahib, aadaab.
When I used the concept of "compound" words, I had this view in mind
that it would be unlikely if we came up with one single word that is
equivalent to "Nostalgia". My suggestion therefore was that this
concept in Urdu could perhaps be expressed by using more than one word
in a compounded manner, such as "milii-bhaghat" (conspiracy).
"puraanii yaadeN" is not a compound word. In fact, these are two
words, a plural feminine noun qualified by a femine adjective. If
someone reads these two words, it would translate as "old memories".
How would one differentiate between "old memories" and "nostalgia"?
Naseer
Naseer
muHtaram Afzal Sahib, aadaab.
I am still pondering over this difficult task which may ultimately
lead me to failure:-)
I think the word "Nostalgia" has its roots in Greek and not Latin.
According to "Wikipedia", "Nostalgia is often triggered by something
reminding the individual of an event or item from their past. The
resulting emotion can vary from happiness to sorrow. The term of
"feeling nostalgic" is more commonly used to describe pleasurable
emotions associated with and/or a longing to go back to a particular
period of time."
In a way if we exclude the resulting effect of Nostalgia, namely a
sence of happiness or sorrow, the coinage of an Urdu word or a group
of words might be easier. So a "neutral stance" is fine with me.
Naseer
Naseer
"Nostalgia kaa tarjuma kisi saahib ne "yaadash baKhairiya" kiyaa hai.
Naseer Sahib, aap kyaa kehte haiN beech is mas'ale ke?"
Zafar Sahib 18/03/2010 "Selections from Zafar Iqbal"
"yaadash ba-Khair" kii ta'riif "Platts" ne yuuN kii hai.
yād-ash ba-ḵẖair, Whom God remember graciously; God preserve him (used
when speaking of an absent friend;—cf. 'the Lord keep his memory
green!')
is ta'riif se yih natiijah aKhaz kiyaa jaa saktaa hai kih yih tarkiib
(shaayad) sirf insaan ke liye maHduud hai; apne kisii makaan, kisii
bakrii, kisii pahaaRii yaa kisii tasavvur ke liye nahiiN! duusre
lafzoN meN "yaadash ba-Khair" kaa murakkab kisii bhale maanas kii yaad
meN isti'maal kiyaa jaataa hai aur is ke siidhe-saade ma'nii "Khudaa
us kaa bhalaa kare", "us kaa bhalaa ho" va-Ghairah ho sakte haiN.
ya'nii kisii shaKhs ko achchhe lafzoN meN yaad kiyaa jaa rahaa hai. "-
ash" suffix, jo kih Farsi meN "he/she/it" kaa izhaar kartaa hai,
lagtaa hai kih sirf he/she ke liye maKhsuus kar diyaa gayaa hai.
yaadash ba-Khair jab vuh tasavvur meN aa gayaa
shi'r-o-shabaab-o-Husn kaa daryaa bahaa gayaa
vaise mujhe apnii baat par kuchh kuchh shak hai.
ek Pakistani filmii gaane hii ko le liijiye..
yaadash ba-Khair bachpan meN
khele the ghar aaNgan meN
ho ke javaaN sharmaane lage
kyoN aaNchal meN mukhRaa chhupaane lage
kyaa yahaaN yaadash ba-Khair apne maHbuub ke liye hai yaa us guzre
hu'e vaqt ke liye?
yaadash ba-Khair ham bhii 'aadii the dil-lagii ke
ab Khvaab kii haiN baateN qisse the jo kabhii ke
ek baar phir, dil-bar ke liye yaa dil-lagii ke liye?
mere Khayaal meN "yaadash baKhair" ko ham Nostalgia ke ma'noN meN
nahiiN le sakte.
isii tarkiib se "yaadash ba-Khairiya" ko vujuud meN laayaa gayaa hai.
yahaaN ba-Khair kii jagah "ba-Khairiya" ne le lii hai. aur Khairyah
shaayad "Khairyat" hii hai. "Khair" se "Khairiyat" tak pahuNchne meN
kyaa izaafii "ma'nii-aafriinii" hu'ii hai kih ham ise "Nostalgia"
samjh leN? haaN, agar maiN "yaadash ba-Khair" ke tajziye meN Ghalatii
par huuN aur vuh vvaaqi'ii "his/her/it" kaa iHaatah kartaa hai to
phir, "Nostalgia" ke tasavvur ke liye yih ek qaabil-i-taHsiin koshish
hai aur is kii taa'iid honii chaahiye. ham jaante haiN kih "yaadash
baKhair" kaa isti'maal ek Khaas DhaaNche meN Dhal gayaa hai. ise ham
"Nostalgia" kaa ruup nahiiN de sakte. lekiN "Nostalgia" ke ma'noN meN
"yaadash-baKhairiya" ko zaruur zindagii baKhsh sakte haiN.
Khair-Khvaah,
Naseer
B.G.M.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"yaadash ba-Khair jab woh tasavvur meN aa gayaa
she'r-o-shabaab-o-Husn kaa dariyaa bahaa gayaa"
Waa...h! KahaaN se DhuuNDaa aap ne yeh she`r! Bahot Khuub!
======================================================================
Naseer
> "yaadash ba-Khair jab woh tasavvur meN aa gayaa
> she'r-o-shabaab-o-Husn kaa dariyaa bahaa gayaa"
>
> Waa...h! KahaaN se DhuuNDaa aap ne yeh she`r! Bahot Khuub!
>
> ======================================================================
B.G.M Sahib, can you beat this for nostalgia?
ab 'itr bhii malo to takalluf kii buu kahaaN
vuh din havaa hu'e jo paseena gulaab thaa
Madho Ram Johar
....................................................................................................................
Naseer
B.G.M.
Nostalgia = A bittersweet longing for things, place, persons or
situations of the past.
Therefore. I thought "Maazii-aafreeni" will be appropriate
===========================================================================================
Afzal A. Khan
Does "aafreeni" also cover "bittersweet longing" ?
I am not sure.
Afzal
B.G.M.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
aap Theek kah rahe haiN, "aafreeni" does not cover -bitter-sweet- or -
longing-.
Nostalgia ki do aur definitions jo saamne aayii hai wo yeh bhi haiN
A. Nost "nest" algia "pain" Yaa "dard-e-yaad-e-nasheman"
B. remembering the past with passion
yeh baat, maiN ne sochaa, "aafreeni" meN kuChh ziyaadah samo sakay.
shukriya.
(Uupar dee gayii teenoN definitions meN kuChh nah kuChh
"editorialization" zaruur hai)
==========================================================================================
Naseer
pichhle do tiin dinoN se maiN yih soch rahaa huuN kih ba-qaul Afzal
Sahib, jo "aag" maiN ne lagaa'ii hai use kaise bujhaayaa jaa'e!
mauzuu' to maiN ne chheR diyaa hai lekin Khud is meN kuchh izaafah
karne meN nihaayat hii naa-kaam saabit ho rahaa huuN! Khair, aisaa
bhii hotaa hai:-)
As I indicated in my initial post, Nostalgia had at one time the sense
of pining for one's homeland but the word in English is not really
used with that meaning much, if at all, anymore. So, we can disregard
this meaning. The other main meaning is yearning of the past (events/
personalities/places etc). This is how "Nostalgia" is described in
Wikipedia.
"Nostalgia is often triggered by something reminding the individual of
an event or item from their past. The resulting emotion can vary from
happiness to sorrow. The term "feeling nostalgic" is more commonly
used to describe pleasurable emotions associated with and/or longing
to go back to a particular period if time." I know Afzal Sahib has
indicated that one ought to incorporate both happiness and sorrow but
the inclusion of both feelings is going to make the new word even more
difficult to formulate! Also, if one yearns for something, it is
logical to assume that one has to recall something to yearn for. So,
one can use yearning OR remembering.
There is also a possible element of idealising the past. One may
consider incorporating words such as "Khush-fahmii, fareb-Khayaalii,
mauhuum, Husn-i-zann(gracious presumption), -numaa etc. But, again,
this could complicate matters!:-)
So, what are the key concepts of Nostalgia?
1) Yearning/Remembering
2) Past
3) Happiness
I thought that if I made a list of words which convey these meanings,
I should be able to bring them together to coin this new word. How
naive of me to think like this!
1. tamannaa, aarzoo, Hasrat, armaan, Khvaahish, umaNg
2. maazii, raftah, guzashta, guzraa zamaanah, biite din
3. Khushii, shaadii, shaadmaanii, farHat, masarrat, suruur
(Also, Khush-gavaar /suhaanaa/ii for pleasant (times/memories etc)
Here are a few feeble attempts.
1) yaad-guzasht (akin to sar-guzasht)
2) yaadash ba-zann (its memory in presumption!)
3) yaad-i-ayyaam
4) tamanaa-kash-i-maazii
5) shaad-yaad
6) shaad-Khayaal
7) Khushaa maa-guzasht
8) Khushaa-maazii
I think that whatever word one coins, one should be able to form a
plural and an adjective from it. If one applies this criterion, this
only leaves "shaad-yaad" with plural "shaad-yaad-eN" and
adjective"shaad-yaad-ii" (?) and "Shaad-Khayaal" resulting in "shaad-
Khayaal-aat" and "shaad-Khayaalii".
Whilst looking into a solution to an equivalent word for "nostalgia",
I came across "roz-bih", a compound word which according to Platts
means "Happy Times". You will have come across "bih-roz" as in the
Pakistani actor's name "Behroz Sabzvari". "roz-bih" seems to be an
inverted form of "bih-roz". One also has "bih-zaad" (as in Behzad
Lakhnavi). I presume "bih-zaad" would mean "well-born" (noble) etc.
So, here is another attempt on this pattern.
roz-bih~Hasrat ( craving for happy times) = nostalgia
roz-bih~Hasrat-eN (plural)
roz-bih~Hasrat-ii = nostalgic
Back to the drawing board, perhaps!
Naseer
UVR
I would like to propose that the phrase "yaad-e-raftagaaN" is quite
synonymous with nostalgia. Whether a memory is sweet, bittersweet,
bitter, or somewhere in between, the word "yaad" in our language is
wide enough in scope to encompass it. Does anyone ever have
'nostalgia' for something that was purely unpleasant -- doesn't the
'definition' of nostalgia wholly preclude such an occurrence?
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
Maybe the word "raftagaaN" has a connotation which refers to
"people". In other words, it may not encompass simple
"memories". But I am not sure about this. Perhaps Naseer
Saheb can do some research on this.
Many words from English (and other foreign languages) have
been incorporated in our language. I am particularly
thinking of words like "bourgeois". Perhaps it is time
that we think about incorporating "nostalgia" too. I doubt
whether there is an EXACT equivalent in Urdu.
Incidentally, Naseer Saheb has not told us what is the equivalent
in (modern) Faarsi.
Afzal
UVR
>
> Many words from English (and other foreign languages) have
> been incorporated in our language. I am particularly
> thinking of words like "bourgeois". Perhaps it is time
> that we think about incorporating "nostalgia" too. I doubt
> whether there is an EXACT equivalent in Urdu.
>
I, for one, would be GREATLY in favor of such a move (adopting, that
is). Urdu language has a glorious tradition of adopting and
assimilating words from other languages and embracing them as its own
-- a tradition that has led to vast enrichment of its vocabulary.
I don't even think adoption should be conditional on an equivalent
(exact or approximate) already existing! Otherwise, we would not have
qalb and dil together or kaan as well as gosh, and Urdu would have
been the poorer for it.
-UVR.
Naseer
On 31 Mar, 13:44, "Afzal A. Khan" <me_af...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 3/31/2010 7:09 AM, UVR wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would like to propose that the phrase "yaad-e-raftagaaN" is quite
> > synonymous with nostalgia. Whether a memory is sweet, bittersweet,
> > bitter, or somewhere in between, the word "yaad" in our language is
> > wide enough in scope to encompass it. Does anyone ever have
> > 'nostalgia' for something that was purely unpleasant -- doesn't the
> > 'definition' of nostalgia wholly preclude such an occurrence?
>
> > -UVR.
>
> Maybe the word "raftagaaN" has a connotation which refers to
> "people". In other words, it may not encompass simple
> "memories". But I am not sure about this. Perhaps Naseer
> Saheb can do some research on this.
You are absolutely correct in your explanation.
> Many words from English (and other foreign languages) have
> been incorporated in our language. I am particularly
> thinking of words like "bourgeois". Perhaps it is time
> that we think about incorporating "nostalgia" too. I doubt
> whether there is an EXACT equivalent in Urdu.
For this exercise, this way out would seem to accept defeat! I had not
discarded the possibility though! "nostaljiyaa"?
> Incidentally, Naseer Saheb has not told us what is the equivalent
> in (modern) Faarsi.
The simple reason is that both Farsi and Arabic give the original
meaning of nostalgia.
dil-taNgii-i-vatan (F)
Haniin li_lwatan (A)
I wonder if there is a concept of "nostalgia" in Sanskrit.
Naseer
Vijay
Naseer sahib,
aadaab-o-tasliimaat:
I recently read a feature on the language of Boro, a language of
Northeastren India that spills over into Bhutan, Nepal, Bangladesh. It
has words so descriptive that it makes all other languages I know look
inadequate. Some examples:
mokhrob: to express anger by a sidelong glance
onsay: to pretend to love
onsra: to love for the last time
gobray: to fall in a well unknowingly (:-))
serrom: to examine by slight pressing (say, at the fruit market?)
bokhali: a woman who carries a child on her back
There are similar exaples of words/phrases that belong to a certain
language and defy attempts at accurate translation, particularly with
a single word or phrase. German 'schadenfreude' has been accpeted,
more or less, as an English word. It is impossible to find a one word
equivalent in English to describe 'the feeling of pleasure at others'
misfortune'. There is a lovely French phrase, 'esprit d'escalier';
litteraly meaning a witty revelation of (at) the staircase. It means a
winning thought or an idea that comes after one has had an arguemnt or
a discussion and leaves one with a degree of disappointmnet and
despair for not saying it then! You will note that it has taken me
more than a line to explain the meaning. There isn't, nay, can't be, a
one word translation for it in English. I feel we may be hitting a
similar limiter with trying to find an equivalent for 'nostalgia' in
Urdu (or Sanskrit derived languages). One of the principle reasons
being that it encompasses multiple feelings and situations, as has
been stated elsewhere in this thread.
Before you think 'ki khoda pahaaR, aur nikla chuuha':-), let me
coclude with my suggestion/s:
a. adopt it 'in toto' as an Urdu word or
b. stick with something simple, say, yaad-e-maazi. It has the beauty
and elegance of simplicity. This was the word/phrase that came to my
mind first. There is something about it that does imply a degree of
longing/pain/pleasure. Urdu has the advantage of izafaat and one could
perhaps expand it to 'sozish-e-yaad-e-maazi' as 'sozish' also has a
pain/pleasure connotation. ('sozish' of lost love for instance).
But my preference will be for a.
Best,
Vijay
UVR
>
> I wonder if there is a concept of "nostalgia" in Sanskrit.
>
> Naseer
In the sense of "remembering fondly" a few words can easily be
constructed.
One such is: गतसंस्मरण. An almost literal translation of "yaad-e-
maazi".
But there is no single word that I know which means "bittersweet
longing for days bygone".
-UVR.
UVR
> On 3/31/2010 7:09 AM, UVR wrote:
>
> > I would like to propose that the phrase "yaad-e-raftagaaN" is quite
> > synonymous with nostalgia. Whether a memory is sweet, bittersweet,
> > bitter, or somewhere in between, the word "yaad" in our language is
> > wide enough in scope to encompass it. Does anyone ever have
> > 'nostalgia' for something that was purely unpleasant -- doesn't the
> > 'definition' of nostalgia wholly preclude such an occurrence?
>
> > -UVR.
>
> Maybe the word "raftagaaN" has a connotation which refers to
> "people". In other words, it may not encompass simple
> "memories". But I am not sure about this. Perhaps Naseer
> Saheb can do some research on this.
>
Doesn't "yaadash ba.Khair[iya]" also have a connotation of "a person"?
-UVR.
Zafar
janaab Naseer saahib:
agar mujhe ma'aloom hotaa k mere "post script" ko le kar aap aik nayi
laRi shuru' kar deN ge, to maiN likhte waqt do teen baar zaroor
sochtaa :)
Khair, dar asl "yadash baKhairiya" mash'hoor mizaah nigaar Mushtaq
Ahmad Yusufi ne apni kisi kitaab (Ghaliban "chiraGh tale") meN
iste'emaal kiyaa thaa. aur jahaaN tak meraa Khayaal hai (jo Ghalat bhi
ho saktaa hai), unhoN ne ise "bar wazn" e "maaliKhooliya" likhaa
thaa ... ya'ani is meN (zehni) maraz kaa pehloo bhi maujood hai.
doosri baat k ye mere naaqis Khayaal meN ye tarkeeb sirf he/she ke
liye maKhsoos naheeN hai, bal k Urdu aur Farsi donoN zabaanoN meN
yaadash baKhair ko "it" ke liye bhi iste'emaal kiyaa jaataa hai. Urdu
kaa aik she'r sun leejiye:
aati thi neend zaanoo e mehboob par Khumaar
yaadash baKhair, ab wo zamaana nazar meN hai
[Khumar BB]
yaa phir
yaadash baKhair ehd e guzashta ki suhbateN
ik daur thaa 'ajab k mire saath tum bhi the
[A Faraz]
aadaab arz hai,
Zafar
Naseer
muHtaram Zafar Sahib, aadaab.
aap ne mujh se ek savaal puuchhaa aur maiN ne apnii istitaa'at ke
mutaabiq us kaa javaab de diyaa. lekin Huzuur, aap ne apnii raa'e-
zanii nahiiN kii. kyaa aap ke Khayaal meN "yaadash-baKhair" yaa
"yaadash-baKhairiyaa" nostalgia ke tavaazun par puure utarte haiN?
"yaadash ba-Khairiyaa" kii vazaaHat ke liye bahut bahut shukriyah.
maiN ise "yaadash-ba-Khairiyah" paRh rahaa thaa.
aap ne maaliiKhuuliyaa kaa zikr kiyaa to mujhe Nizaamii 'Aruuzii ke
"chahaar maqaalah" se ek "episode" yaad aa ga'ii jis kaa ta'alluq isii
marz se hai. kaafii dil-chasp andaaz se is ke baare meN bataayaa gayaa
hai.
agar "yaadash-baKhairiyaa" apne andar vatan-vaapsii vaalii "huRak"
samaa'e hu'e hai to phir yih qadre maHduud rah jaataa hai. is meN
"aarzuu-i-maazii" kaa 'unsar shaayad naa-paid hai jo kih "jadiid"
nostalgia kaa aham juzv hai.
farz kar liijiye kih Yuusufi Sahib kii iKhtiraa'"yaadash-baKhairiyaa"
nihaayat hii mauzuuN hai. is kii jam' aur sifat aap kaise banaa'eN ge?
mere Khayaal meN kisii na'e ghaRe hu'e lafz meN kam az kam jam' aur
sifat paidaa karne kii vus'at honii chaahiye.
aap ne is laRii kii avvaliin taHriir zaruur paRhii ho gii. is se aap
ko patah chalaa ho gaa kih hameN "Anjuman-i-taraqqii-i-Urdu" vaaloN
kii taraf se mausuul Khat kaa javaab denaa hai. kyaa aap ke Khayaal
meN "Anjuman-i-ALUP" ke paas ko'ii munaasib javaab hai? aap is savaal
ke javaab meN zarrah-bhar hichkichaahaT nah dikhaa'iye. ko'ii bhii aap
kii baat kaa buraa nahiiN maane gaa!
Naseer
Naseer
Here is a summary of nostalgia equivalents entered by ALUPers, to make
Zafar Sahib's selection process easy.
1) B.G.M. Sahib.
a) maazii-aafriinii
b) dard-i-yaad-i-vatan
2) Afzal Sahib
a) maazii Khvaastgaarii
b) yaad-i-maazii
c) yaad-o-aarzuu-i-maazii
3) Ravi Sahib
a) puraanii yaadeN
4) bandah-i-Khaak-saar
a) yaad-guzasht
b) yaadash-ba-zann
c) yaad-i-ayyaam
d) tamannaa-kash-i-maazii
e) shaad-yaad
f) shaad-Khayaal
g) Khushaa maa-guzasht
h) Khushaa maazii
i) roz-bih~Hasrat
5) UVR Sahib
a) yaad-i-raftagaaN
b) yaad-i-maazii
6) Vijay Sahib
yaad-i-maazii
7) Afzal Sahib, UVR Sahib, Naseer, Vijay Sahib
a) Nostalgia/nostaljiyaa
........................................................................
Naseer
Naseer
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.
As you are aware, this thread arose out of a question which Zafar
Sahib posed directly to me in another thread. I decided to open the
discussion to the whole group. It is merely a "fun" exercise and I am
not necessarily saying that we have got to have an Urdu equivalent for
"nostalgia". Recently there was a thread started by Asad Sahib
entitled "KhichRii" in which a mention came up of various types of
vocabulary in Urdu. I had that thread in mind too.
All languages have their own strengths and weaknesses. Each language
has developed to serve the need of its speakers. Whilst I have no
problem in taking any language's word/s wholesale, I am sure you would
agree that we, the speakers of Urdu, need to engage our minds now and
again and come up with something indiginous and a little original.
Naseer
Zuhra
ek tarkeeb "yaad-e-ayyamekah یاد آیامیکه " bhi shaamil kar lijiye is
fehrist meN, jist ka matlab hai "memory of days gone by/puraani
yaadeN". magar, Khud mujhe bhi yahaN aksariyyat ki raa'e ki tarha
"yaad-e-maazi" yaa "nostalgia" hi behtar lagte haiN.
Zuhra
Naseer
yih muHtaramah Sahiba, "bandah-i-Khaaksaar" kii fahrist meN "c" meN
shaamil hai. agar ko'ii aur tajviiz zihn meN aa'e to zaruur bataa'iye
gaa.
Naseer
Zuhra
>
> - Show quoted text -
wo to 'yaad e ayyaam' hai, 'yaad e ayyaamekah' nahi :) waise, matlab
donoN kaa ek hii hai yeh ma'loom hai is muhtaramah ko, magar yeh nahi
pata ke yahaaN 'ekah' kaa kya maqsad hai.
Zuhra
Zuhra
> On Mar 31, 7:47 am, Naseer <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I wonder if there is a concept of "nostalgia" in Sanskrit.
>
> > Naseer
>
> In the sense of "remembering fondly" a few words can easily be
> constructed.
>
> One such is: गतसंस्मरण. An almost literal translation of "yaad-e-
> maazi".
UVR saahab, aap ne oopar Sanskrit meN jo likha hai, usko kya aap Urdu
meN bhi likh sakte haiN yahaaN? taake hamaari vocabulary meN bhi kuchh
izaafah ho jaa'e :)
Zuhra
Afzal A. Khan
In Roman, it would look something like "Gat'saNsmaraNR".
Afzal
Baad-e-Siyaah
> Naseer
I think nostalgia is romanticized version of past. Khumaar-e-yaad-e-
maazii
btw does English has equivalent of Khumaar/suroor?
UVR
aur Urdu mein: گت سنسمرن
گت: maazi
سنسمرن: yaad (karnaa)
lekin Khayaal rahe, yeh sirf *ek* lafz hai. bahut se lafz aise hi
(yaa is se behtar bhi) gaRhe jaa sakte hain, thanks to the "samaas"
rule of Sanskrit grammar. But, seriously, none of this is relevant to
the context of finding an Urdu word for nostalgia.
-UVR.
Zuhra
> > Incidentally, Naseer Saheb has not told us what is the equivalent
> > in (modern) Faarsi.
>
> The simple reason is that both Farsi and Arabic give the original
> meaning of nostalgia.
>
> dil-taNgii-i-vatan (F)
> Haniin li_lwatan (A)
Naseer saahab, "original meaning" ki rau se 'nostalgia' kaa ek tarjama
'ehsaas-e-Ghurbat' bhi ho sakta hai (Ghurbat --> watan se doori).
Afzal saahab: aapka bohat shukria, Sanskrit ki transliteration ke
liye!
Zuhra
Afzal A. Khan
Aur yeh bhi KHayaal rahe ke Urdu script ka aaKHiri "noon"
Sanskrit ke aaaKHiri "noon" se kuchh alag hai !
Afzal
Zuhra
>
> - Show quoted text -
shukria, meN bas mutajassis (curious) thi ke aap ne Sanskrit meN kya
likha hai nostalgia ke liye aur ise kaise paRhna chaahiye.
Zuhra
Zoya
I have been pondering over the Urdu translation of 'nostalgia' too,
and I am going to go with the two options offered by UVR sahib, in the
listed order:
1. 'yaad -e-raftagaaN' ( my top choice) and then
2. 'yaad-e-maazi'
Whenever I think of the word 'nostalgia', I usually remember this nazm
sung by Reshma, "aksar shab-e-tanhaii meiN .....", an Urdu translation
of a Thomas Moore poem. Brilliant translation and Reshma at her best!
It is a real treat, especially if you have not heard it before. Here
is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83WE7T3liZc
___Zoya
Naseer
>
> - Show quoted text -
janaab-i-Afzal Sahib, aadaab.
Sorry to be "picky", but should n't you have typed a final "a" in
your transliteration? It would n't be "Sanskrit" without it!:-)
* I am of course thinking of the "mana tarapata Hari darashana ko
aaja" effect even though I know this is not Sanskrit.
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
You seem to be borrowing a leaf --er -- a letter
from iTrans !!
Afzal
Naseer
muHtaramah Sahiba, aadaab.
ek taraf aap farmaa rahii haiN kih donoN alfaaz ham-ma'nii haiN aur
duusrii jaanib aap kaa irshaad hai kih aap "ekah" (ya'nii e-kih) kaa
matlab nahiiN jaantiiN! 'ajiib nantiq hai!!:)
Naseer
Naseer
Zoya Sahiba, aadaab.
kabhii kabhii apnii Khud-muKhtaar raa'e bhii qaa'im kar liijiye gaa.
aisaa karnaa itnaa mushkil nahiiN jitnaa aap samajhtii haiN!:)
Naseer
Naseer
suruur = (slight) intoxication (tipsy) + joy/delight/pleasure/
exhileration
Khumaar = (well and truly) intoxicated (hang over)
Naseer
UVR
Well, if we're going to go into such grave(!) detail, then we must
also point out that the MEDIAL 'noon' used in the Urdu (and Roman)
renderings also differs from the medial 'noon' (the dot atop the first
'sa') of Sanskrit :)
-UVR.
Vijay
I think you would know Kala sahib that 'saroor' is 'chaRhta huua
nashaa' aur Khumaar 'utarta huuaa'. English won't have equivalent
words to capture these subtleties, but it is my opinion that
'intoxication' captures both moods in most contexts.
Best,
Vijay
Baad-e-Siyaah
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes Vijay saahib you express them quite correctly. chaRhta hua aur
utartaa hua, lekin controlled nashaa
I don't think intoxication/typsy quite capture the meaning of Khumaar/
suruur. I think they mean 'nashe meN dhut; or 'madhosh or 'chaRh gayii
hai' . Strangely most Indians drink to get intoxicated , suruur yaa
Khumaar ke liye kam hi peete haiN
Zuhra
koi mantiq nahi :) faqat yeh hai ke meri Urdu luGhat meN donoN ko ham-
ma'ni bataya gaya hai.
mera Khayaal thaa k shayad ayyamekah = wo (sab) ayyaam, aur 'ayyam/
yom' kaa matlab to ham sab jaante hii haiN k sirf 'din' nahi hota
balke ise waqt/zamanah(age)/daur(period) ke liye bhi istemaal kiya jaa
sakta hai.
Regards,
Zuhra
Jamil
Interesting thread! But there is already a word for nostalgia in Urdu
and it is `simply, "yaad". In addition to its other ordinary
meanings, when the word describes wistful emotions, it can only be
translated as nostalgia. Try translating it into English and you
cannot come with a better translation than nostalgia. Memories? - no
that does not quite encompass sentimental longing, as yaad or
nostalgia does. Remembrance? - ditto. Recalling? has no place for
homesickness.
Faiz has portrayed the feeling of nostalgia beautifully in the poem to
which he gave the title "yaad":
dasht-e-tanhaaii meN ai jaan-e-jahaan larzaaN haiN
terii aavaaz ke saa'ey terey hoNToN ke saraab
dash-e-tanhaaii men duurii ke Khas-o-Khaak tale
khil rahe haiN tere pehluu ke saman aur gulaab
Or, his immortal poem, "raqiib se", which begins:
aa keh vaabastah hain us husn ki yaadeN tujh se
jis ne is dil ko parii Khaanah banaa rakhaa thaa
His qata' on the subject of nostalgia for his mahbuub:
raat yuun dil meN teri kho'ii hu'ii yaad aa'ii
jaise viiraane men chupke se bahaar aa jaa'ey
jaisey sehraa'oN meN holey se chaley baad-e-nasiim
jaisey biimaar ko be-vaj'h qaraar aa jaa'ey
In my opinion, stand-alone yaad is a more powerful word than a part of
compound expression such as yaad-maazii.
Jamil
nagesh
I have not checked out all the entries for this long thread, but in
light of the recent effort to use Platt's online, I thought you might
be interested in another online resource that might conceivably be
useful - Google's translation service. Here is what I got for
nostalgia:
noun
खिन्नता
उदासी
विषाद
These were obtained from Google's English to Hindi translation
service. They do not offer (yet) an English to Urdu translator.
"udaasi" is used in Urdu poetry (for example in Faiz's "mere hamdam
mere dost") but I have not come across the others in any Urdu poetry I
have seen.
The translator also has links to a dictionary.
Regards,
Nagesh
Jamil
Another online dictionary is the Webster's English to Urdu at:
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/Urdu+%2528Transliterated%2529/index18.html
The Urdu words are transliterated, and the dictionary is quite
extensive. I could not find the Urdu to English counterpart among
Webster's dictionaries.
Jamil
Naseer
muHtaram Jamil Sahib, aadaab.
"Stand-alone yaad" may convey a feeling of nostalgia but when one
thinks of the word "yaad", the meaning that comes immediately to mind
is "memory". Similarly the plural "yaadeN" equates more to "memories"
than to nostalgias, don't you think?
Whatever word one coins for "nostalgia" in Urdu, I believe it needs to
reflect it wholly and not lead one to any other (constituent) meaning.
For example when one reads the word "duur-biin", one does not think of
"far-seeing/seer" but one takes its meaning to be nothing but
"binoculars".
Naseer