[lafz] Word of the day #351 - 'naved'
abida123
From: nawat...@hotmail.com
Reply-To: lafz-...@yahoogroups.com
To: la...@yahoogroups.com
Word of the day: 'naved'
Meaning:
naved - good news [n. fem. Persian]
Couplet:
mere chaaraagar ko naved ho saf-e-dushmanaa ko Khabar karo
vo jo qarz rakhate the jaan par vo hisaab aaj chukaa diyaa
[Faiz Ahmed Faiz]
[chaaraagar = healer; saf-e-dushmanaa = enemy ranks; qarz = debt]
Associated word(s):
1. naved-e-jaa.N_fizaa - good news that brings new hope/exhilirating
news [n. fem. Persian]
2. naved-e-maqdam - (good) news on the arrival of some person of
importance [n. fem. Persian]
-------------------------------------------------
Lafz Archive:
http://www.lafz.net
Subscribe: lafz-su...@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: lafz-uns...@yahoogroups.com
For all other queries, send an e-mail to
mode...@urdupoetry.com
--------------------------------------------------
Zafar
The correct pronunciation of the word is "naveed" or "naviid", not
"naved" or "navid".
Cheers!
Nita
Different dictionaries give different pronunciations. Both naved and
naviid are given though one might be a 'purer' form than the other.
Zafar
Naveed is a common Muslim name and I've never seen somebody writing
his name as "Naved". I'm surprised that some dictionaries give the
pronunciation of the word as "Naved" cuz this pronunctiation doesn't
even fit into the meter (wazan) of the quoted sher by Faiz (unless you
change it to "Navaid", which sounds very odd indeed).
Regards,
Zafar
Raj Kumar
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:30:24 -0000
> From: nawat...@hotmail.com
> Reply-To: lafz-...@yahoogroups.com
> To: la...@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Word of the day: 'naved'
>
>
> Meaning:
>
> naved - good news [n. fem. Persian]
>
>
> Couplet:
>
> mere chaaraagar ko naved ho saf-e-dushmanaa ko Khabar karo
> vo jo qarz rakhate the jaan par vo hisaab aaj chukaa diyaa
> [Faiz Ahmed Faiz]
>
> [chaaraagar = healer; saf-e-dushmanaa = enemy ranks; qarz = debt]
is lafz ke baare meiN, do-aek baateN kehna chaahooN ga:
(i) is lafz ka 'preferred' talaffuz yaqeenan 'naveed' hai, magar
'naved' bhi durust maana jaata hai; I have double-checked it.
(ii) yeh lafz sirf 'feminine' hi naheeN balke 'masculine' bhi barta ja
sakta hai.
(iii) maNdarja-baala she'r ke pehle misre meiN, chaahe 'naveed' kaho
chaahe 'naved' kaho, misra har-do-soorat meiN bar-vazn hoga.
haaN, aek baat zaroor hai --- voh yeh ke pehle misre ka aaKhiri lafz
'karo' hai ya 'kare'? Please check.
aur, doosre misre meiN, 'saf-e-dushmanaa' ko 'saf-e-dushmanaaN' hona
chaahiye.
Raj Kumar
Zafar
mere paas jo luGhaat hain, un sab meN "naveed" hee pronunciation hai
-- taaham agar is kee doosree koi shakl bantee hai to wo yaqeenan
"navaid" ho gee, kyon ke jaisaa ke aap jaante hain, ye Persian kaa
lafz hai, aur Urdu/Persian/Arabic script kisee bhee soorat meN "e" (as
pronounced in English words bed or mess, etc.) ko "handle" naheeN kar
saktaa. yaa to "noon, zer, wow, daal" se kar NAVID likh sakte haiN yaa
phir "noon, zabar, ye, daal" se NAVAID ("ai" as in English words
"rain", "main" etc.) banaa leejiye.
agar transliteration meN "ai" ko "e" se zaahir kiya jaataa hai to phir
meree guzaarish hai k "hai" ko bhee "he" aur (Urdu) "maiN" ko bhi
"meN" likhnaa chaahiye.
wa maa alainaa, illal bilaaGh,
Zafar
Raj Kumar
> Muhtarim Raj Kumar Sahib:
>
> mere paas jo luGhaat hain, un sab meN "naveed" hee pronunciation hai
> -- taaham agar is kee doosree koi shakl bantee hai to wo yaqeenan
> "navaid" ho gee, kyon ke jaisaa ke aap jaante hain, ye Persian kaa
> lafz hai, aur Urdu/Persian/Arabic script kisee bhee soorat meN "e" (as
> pronounced in English words bed or mess, etc.) ko "handle" naheeN kar
> saktaa. yaa to "noon, zer, wow, daal" se kar NAVID likh sakte haiN yaa
> phir "noon, zabar, ye, daal" se NAVAID ("ai" as in English words
> "rain", "main" etc.) banaa leejiye.
Zafar Saahib:
I think we aren't as far apart on this one as 'transliteration' has
made us seem. By 'naved' I never meant to convey the type of sound
they have in the English words 'mess', 'jet-set', etc. As you rightly
say, Urdu-Faarsi meiN to aisi aavaaz hai hi naheeN.
> agar transliteration meN "ai" ko "e" se zaahir kiya jaataa hai to phir
> meree guzaarish hai k "hai" ko bhee "he" aur (Urdu) "maiN" ko bhi
> "meN" likhnaa chaahiye.
By 'naved' I meant to convey a sound as in 'jahez', 'shikeb', 'kured',
'sameT, etc., which I confirmed for my satisfaction as an allowed
pronounciation of this word. Of course, the prefered pronounciation is
indeed 'naveed'.
When you write 'navaid', I read it as carrying a 'zabar' on 'vao',
thus conveying a sound as in 'ba-Khair'. That is why I write 'maiN
gayaa'. And to keep the distinction clear, I write 'dil hi dil meiN';
may be, I should write 'dil hi dil meN'.
In this vein, I would continue to write 'hai' as such (with a 'zabar'
on 'he'). sirf 'he' likkheN ge to Khaali harf 'he' reh jaaye ga.
In short, using my notation, 'naveed' is absolutely correct, 'naved'
is also allowed while 'navaid' is a no-no. I hope we are 'in synch'
now! :-))
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Zafar
aadaab:
I'm sorry to elongate this thread, but I guess the debate is not over
yet. "kured" is a Hindi word where a "short" a sound exists (like the
sound of "a" in English words, man, ran, fan, etc.), lekin jahaan tak
Arabi/Faarsi ka mu'aamilah hai, mere meHdood ilm ke mutaabiq wahaaN ye
sound (short a) paayee hee naheeN jaatee. yahaan to sirf "long a" (as
in English "rain" and "mail") hai. aap mujhe "jahez" ke a'eraab lagaa
ke bataa deN to maiN aap kee sab baateN maan loon gaa. aap dekhaiN ge
k "h" ke oopar bahar Haal zabar lagaanee hee paRtee hai, jis se lafz
"jahaiz" bantaa hai, na k "jahez".
yahee baat "naved" par bhee mutabiq hotee hai, ya to "ee" yaa phir
"ai", kyonke Faarsee meN to "short a" hai hee naheeN.
Khair andaish,
Zafar
Raj Kumar
>
> aadaab:
>
> I'm sorry to elongate this thread, but I guess the debate is not over
> yet. "kured" is a Hindi word where a "short" a sound exists (like the
> sound of "a" in English words, man, ran, fan, etc.), lekin jahaan tak
> Arabi/Faarsi ka mu'aamilah hai, mere meHdood ilm ke mutaabiq wahaaN ye
> sound (short a) paayee hee naheeN jaatee. yahaan to sirf "long a" (as
> in English "rain" and "mail") hai. aap mujhe "jahez" ke a'eraab lagaa
> ke bataa deN to maiN aap kee sab baateN maan loon gaa. aap dekhaiN ge
> k "h" ke oopar bahar Haal zabar lagaanee hee paRtee hai, jis se lafz
> "jahaiz" bantaa hai, na k "jahez".
Zafar Saahib:
aap chaahe "jahaiz" likkheN chaahe "jahez", agar paRhne vaaloN tak
saheeh talaffuz pahuNch jai to koi bhi soorat ravaa ho sakti hai.
magar, 'consistency' ko dhyaan meiN rakhte huye, aap yeh bataaiye ke
maNdarja-zail alfaaz ko aap kaise likkheN ge jinheN maiN yooN likhta
hooN:
der ---- meaning 'delay'
dair ---- meaning 'maNdir'
This little exercise should resolve the issue.
aur jahaaN tak 'kured' ki baat hai, maana ke yeh lafz Hindi ka hai
magar yahaaN par (re aur daal ke darmiyaan) 'short' vowel naheeN hai,
'long' vowel hai. vazn meiN yeh lafz 'jahaiz'/'jahez' ke baraabar hai
--- as evidenced by the following misra from Hafeez J.
aao meri raakh kuredo, keemiya-gar maiN bhi to rahaa hooN!
aap chaaheN 'kuraido' likh leN, magar vowel 'long' hi hai.
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Sarwar Alam Raz
Aur Mirzaa Ghaalib farmaate haiN ke:
jalaa hai jism jahaaN, dil bhee jal gayaa hogaa
kuraidte ho jo ab raakh, justjoo kyaa hai
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar
Jamil Ahmad
....
This is a somewhat old thread, but reading this, I am reminded of the
difference in pronunciation of the same word in modern Farsi and Urdu.
Since Farsi came to India via Central Asia and not directly from
Iran, the pronunciation that we adopted is closer to Dari than Iranian
dialect.
I list below a few words whose pronunciations show this difference.
As a parenthetical note I may add that like Zafar Sahib, I too never
heard Naveed being pronounced as Naved (or Navaid), but that does not
mean some ahaaliaan-e-zabaan don't use it that way.
Paish in Urdu vs. Peesh in (Iranian) Farsi. (Means in front.)
raish vs reesh or riish (beard)
baish-tar vs beesh-tar (more)
But 'aish and 'aish (luxury)
shair vs. sheer or shiir (lion)
But sheer and sheer (milk)
Javaid vs. Javeed ((name, meaning eternal); Compare Navaid and Naveed.
safaid vs safeed (white)
dair vs. deer or diir (late)
zair vs. zeer (below)
maikh vs. meekh (nail)
naik vs. neek (pious)
zaib vs. zeeb (beauty)
zarkhaiz vs. zarkheez (fertile)
tabraiz vs. tabreez (Name of a city in Iran)
And many, many more. This difference in pronunciation is not limited
to the 'ai' and 'ee' sounds, but extends to other sounds too. For
example "Lahore" in modern Farsi becomes "Lahoor", as in
Iqbal-e-Lahoori.
iraadatmand
Jamil
Naseer
I know Zafar SaaHib is not here to "defend" himself but for the sake of completeness and accuracy, here is my tuppence worth.
It is true that in current Urdu, the pronunciation for the word is "naviid" but the "naved" pronunciation has not totally died out since we do have "Naved-ul-Hasan" which is a well known Pakistani cricketer's name.
Ghalib pronounced it as "naved" as it clearly indicates on page 247 of “Farhang-i-Ghalib” compiled by Imtiyaz Ali Khan ‘Arshi, the source being Qaati3-i-Burhaan and Dirafash Kaviani.
"naved: ba-nuun-i-mftuuH va yaa-i-majhuul luGhate ast Farsi ba-ma3nii-i-xabar-i-xvush, muraadif-i-muZdah va nabed badal-i-naved ast."
naved nuun zabar aur yaa-i-majhuul ke saath ek Farsi lafz hai jis ke ma3nii haiN xvush-xabar. Is kaa mutaraadif muZdah hai aur is kaa badal nabed hai.
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
> dostaan-i-3aziiz,
>
>
> It is true that in current Urdu, the pronunciation for the word is "naviid" but the "naved" pronunciation has not totally died out since we do have "Naved-ul-Hasan" which is the name of a well known Pakistani cricketer.
>
> Ghalib pronounced it as "naved" as it clearly indicates on page 129 of qaati3-i-burhaan va rasaa'il muta3alliqah by Qazi Abdul Wadood.
>
> naved: bah nuun-i-maftuuH va yaa-i-majhuul....
>
> Taken from p208 of imlaa-i-Ghalib. Rasheed Hasan Khan
>
> Naseer
Mukarramee,
I am not so sure that the pronunciation "naveed" has "died out".
I have a young close relative who is an ophthalmologist, here in
the US. His name is "Navid" and he pronounces it as you have
indicated.
Incidentally, his family too migrated to Pakistan after the
partition of British India. One of his relatives I had
met some years ago was a renowned hockey player. {Hockey as in
'Field Hockey'.} He used to play for a great hockey team in
India that had made a name for itself, winning several tour -
naments. Its name was "Bhopal Wanderers". It was patronized
by Nawab Hamidullah Khan, the Nawab of Bhopal. Sadly, that
Hockey player passed away some years back. The Nawab Saheb too
died many years ago.
I think the word in question should be pronounced as in
"raseed".
Of course, my own take doesn't mean anything. It is neither
here nor there.
Afzal
Naseer
> On 5/26/2020 6:21 AM, Naseer wrote:
>
>
>
> > dostaan-i-3aziiz,
> >
> > I know Zafar SaaHib is not here to "defend" himself but for the sake of accuracy, my penny's worth.
> >
> > It is true that in current Urdu, the pronunciation for the word is "naviid" but the "naved" pronunciation has not totally died out since we do have "Naved-ul-Hasan" which is the name of a well known Pakistani cricketer.
> >
> > Ghalib pronounced it as "naved" as it clearly indicates on page 129 of qaati3-i-burhaan va rasaa'il muta3alliqah by Qazi Abdul Wadood.
> >
> > naved: bah nuun-i-maftuuH va yaa-i-majhuul....
> >
> > Taken from p208 of imlaa-i-Ghalib. Rasheed Hasan Khan
> >
> > Naseer
>
>
>
> Mukarramee,
>
> I am not so sure that the pronunciation "naveed" has "died out".
> I have a young close relative who is an ophthalmologist, here in
> the US. His name is "Navid" and he pronounces it as you have
> indicated.
>
> Incidentally, his family too migrated to Pakistan after the
> partition of British India. One of his relatives I had
> met some years ago was a renowned hockey player. {Hockey as in
> 'Field Hockey'.} He used to play for a great hockey team in
> India that had made a name for itself, winning several tour -
> naments. Its name was "Bhopal Wanderers". It was patronized
> by Nawab Hamidullah Khan, the Nawab of Bhopal. Sadly, that
> Hockey player passed away some years back. The Nawab Saheb too
> died many years ago.
>
> I think the word in question should be pronounced as in
> "raseed".
> Of course, my own take doesn't mean anything. It is neither
> here nor there.
>
> Afzal
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
First of all, thanks for your appreciative comment. That is
what keeps me going................
I believe there is another pronunciation of this word. And
that is "nuvaid", rhyming with "mai" and "shai" etc.
A relative of mine resides mostly in India (but makes
occasional forays to the US of A). Her full name is
"Nuvaid-us-Sahar". All of us, including her (late)
parents pronounce her name in this particular way.
******************
I believe you also mentioned a Pakistani cricketer, by the
name of Rana Naved-ul-Hassan. I have seen him on TV.
He was a fast-medium bowler and a lower order batsman.
But his Test career ended more than 13 years back.
However, he did have a successful stint in County Cricket.
Without delving any further into his cricketing exploits,
let me mention one point. He was getting noticeably bald.
But then, he sort of "reversed" the process, much like the
"reverse swing" that he was quite good at. His hair sort of
"re-grew" ! Of course, it was not a wig. I don't know what
medicine/s he used. I believe he has started a cricket
academy in Pakistan.
Afzal
Naseer
"nuvaid" also must be very uncommon. I suppose we can put this in the same drawer as "umaid". I have heard Iftikhar Arif pronouncing it in this manner and my mother's side of the family also pronounce it thus in Punjabi minus the initial "u"! We Punjabis have a habit of taking the shortest route and gobble up any initial vowels. Why waste time going through such lengths?!:-)
Perhaps in the same drawer we can also put "KHurshaid/xurshaid". Have you come across this pronunciation of KHurshiid/xurshiid in Urdu? Punjabi ladies of the older generation do/did bear the name "KHurshaid BiBi/Begum" in my part of the world.
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
There is a well-known sher by Mirza Sauda :
Sardi ab ke paRe hai itni shadeed
SubH(a) nikle hai kaaNp'ta KHursheed
Afzal
Naseer
By chance I came across the KHurshaid/xurshaid pronunciation, uttered by Qamar Jalalvi @ 1.08 here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJDpD_iLda4
Qamar Jalalvi was born in Jalali near Aligarh, India in 1887. In 1947 he moved to Karachi, Pakistan and passed away in 1968.
Naseer