Word of the Month- 01/11 (daryaa--River/Sea?)
Naseer
In 1998, the topic whether "daryaa" meant a river or a sea was
discussed. I thought of reviving this topic with one or two additions.
In Urdu, as far as I know, daryaa means a river. From school days, the
Punjab rivers in our geography books were always "daryaa-i-Jhelum",
"daryaa-i-Ravi" etc. But, let us attempt to find out what the word
really means.
Looking up in Platts, gives the following entry.
P دريا daryā [old P. daraya, daryāw; Pehl. zraē; Zend zrayaṅh, rt. zri
= S. jrayas, rt. jri], s.m. The sea; the waters; a large river (the
com. signification in India):
From the above, it appears therefore that the meaning of the word is a
sea . However, in our part of the world it has come to mean " a large
river". But, is this strictly true? We know that the river Oxus is
called "Amu Darya", which is also known as "JaiHuun" in Arabic. Let me
provide you with another example where "daryaa" is being used to
describe a large river; in fact the largest river in the world.
Kharoshe bar aavard asp-am cho piil
zamiiN shud pareshaaN cho daryaa-i-Niil
(Firdausi)
My steed brought out a ferocious cry of an elephant
The earth became restless like the river Nile
Alright. So, Farsi speakers themselves have referred to large rivers
as "daryaa" and in this sense, we in the Subcontinent are quite right
in using daryaa for river. After all, apart from the Oxus (Amu Darya),
what other large rivers are there in Farsi speaking lands which are
comparable in size to our rivers? Dijlah, Faraat?
Now, as Jamil Sahib has correctly pointed out in the 1998 thread, in
Farsi, the word for river is commanly "ruud" or "ruud-Khaanah". Let me
quote a couple of sentences from a travelogue entitled "Safar Naamah"
by Naasir Khusrau (1003-1088). This is possibly the oldest Farsi prose
work and was compiled as a result of his travels spanning a period of
six years. In the passage, from which I have taken the sentences
below, he is decribing an area south of the Caspian Sea, I believe.
"----va goyand kih hazaar-o-chahaar sad rod-Khaanah dar daryaa-i-
aabguun me-rezad...."
"It is said that one thousand and four hundred rivers flow into the
Blue Sea [Caspian Sea?]". This is the only place I came across the
word "rod-Khaanah". Everywhere else, "rod" alone is used. For
example,...
"... va chuun aan rod az iin deh biguzarad, ba-rode diigar paivandad
kih aan raa saped-rod goyand.."
"--- and when that river passes through this village, it joins another
river which they call the White River.
Enough of context for this thread. Let's now get to the nitty-gritty
and post some ash'aar with the word, "daryaa" in them. And here is the
difficult part. Can you point out if the poet has a river in mind or a
sea or both.
vaqt aane par chaRhe gaa phir yih daryaa ek din
phir vahii josh-i-talaatum is meN ho gaa ek din
Munshi Tilok Chand Mahroom
Now, I seem to have got myself into a bit of a pickle here! I think
one can deduce both the meanings in this shi'r.
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
> Haaziriin-i-maHfil, aadaab 'arz hai.
> Enough of context for this thread. Let's now get to the nitty-gritty
> and post some ash'aar with the word, "daryaa" in them.
>
> Naseer
Huwe mar ke hum jo ruswa, huwe kyoN na GHarq-e-darya
Na kaheeN janaaza uTh'ta na kaheeN mazaar hota
(Ghalib)
Afzal
Vijay
> Haaziriin-i-maHfil, aadaab 'arz hai.
> Let's now get to the nitty-gritty and post some ash'aar with the word, "daryaa" in them.
ham ko to aise samaNdar pe taras aata hai
jo lage pyaas to daryaaoN se paani maaNge
Raj Kumar 'Qais'
Best regards,
Vijay
arahim
kon kehat hai keh maut a'ee to mar jaoon ga
main to drya hoon, sumandar main utar jaoon ga
Ahmed Nadeem Qasmi
> Best regards,
>
> Vijay
Naseer
Thank you, Afzal Sahib, for this shi'r.
I have often wondered about the meaning of this shi'r. Is Ghalib
saying that it would be preferable to be cremated and his ashes
scattered in a river or sea rather than to be associated with a burial
ceremony and people visiting his grave, all the while being a constant
source of disgrace?
Naseer
Naseer
Vijay Sahib, mazah aa gayaa! kyaa kamaal kaa shi'r aap ne pesh kiyaa
hai!!
Naseer
Naseer
bahut KHuub, Atif Sahib. yuuN lagtaa hai kih Raj Kumar Qais Sahib ke
nahle pih Ahmed Nadeem Qasimi kaa dahlaa hai!
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
Where do you get this idea of "cremation" ?
As I see it, the poet says that his life has been nothing but a
disgrace. A total failure. People make fun of him and even
despise him. Now, if he were to die in normal circumstances,
custom and tradition would dictate that he gets buried. His
'mazaar' (grave) would be a permanent reminder for the people
to remember his failures and disgrace. Would it not be infinitely
preferable if he were to get drowned, so that the (raging) current
carries away his body and nobody can ever find it. Gradually,
people would forget about him and his 'disappearance' would in fact
be his salvation. Such manner of death would confer on him the
anonymity that he is seeking so desperately.
Afzal
Vijay
shukriia Naseer sahib! lekin kamaal to Raj sahib ka hai jinhoN ne itna
Khuubsuurat she'r taraasha . aap ijaazat deN to un ke kamaal kii aik
aur misaal isi ghazal ke aik doosre she'r ke zariie pesh karuuN jis
meN unhoN ne isi qaffie, yaani 'paani', ko aik muKhtalif ma'ani meN
istemaal kiia hai:
isha'q voh saaNp ki jiska nahiiN maNtar koii
iska kaaTa mushkil hai ki paani maaNge!!
aur ab darya pe do aik she'r aur:
ishrat-e-qatra hai darya meN fanaa ho jaana
dard ka had se guzar'naa hai davaa ho jaana!
Ghalib
zabt-e-gham, haaN vohii shikvoN kaa talaatum ik baar
ab to suukhaa huua darya nahiiN dekha jaataa
Shakiil
is raaz ko kya jaaneN saahil ke tamaashaaii
ham Duub ke samjhe haiN daryaa terii gehraaii
Muzaffar Razmi
kisii ke paas aate haiN to darya suukh jaate haiN
kisii kii aiRiioN se ret meN chashma niklataa hai
Munnawar Raana
Best,
Vijay
Vijay
> On Jan 1, 11:06 pm, Naseer <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 1, 8:39 pm, Vijay <guz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 1, 12:42 pm, Naseer <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Haaziriin-i-maHfil, aadaab 'arz hai.
> > > > Let's now get to the nitty-gritty and post some ash'aar with the word, "daryaa" in them.
>
> > > ham ko to aise samaNdar pe taras aata hai
> > > jo lage pyaas to daryaaoN se paani maaNge
>
> > > Raj Kumar 'Qais'
>
> > > Best regards,
>
> > > Vijay
>
> > Vijay Sahib, mazah aa gayaa! kyaa kamaal kaa shi'r aap ne pesh kiyaa
> > hai!!
>
> > Naseer
>
> shukriia Naseer sahib! lekin kamaal to Raj sahib ka hai jinhoN ne itna
> Khuubsuurat she'r taraasha . aap ijaazat deN to un ke kamaal kii aik
> aur misaal isi ghazal ke aik doosre she'r ke zariie pesh karuuN jis
> istemaal kiia hai:
>
> isha'q voh saaNp ki jiska nahiiN maNtar koii
> iska kaaTa mushkil hai ki paani maaNge!!
>
> aur ab darya pe do aik she'r aur:
>
> ishrat-e-qatra hai darya meN fanaa ho jaana
> dard ka had se guzar'naa hai davaa ho jaana!
> Ghalib
>
> zabt-e-gham, haaN vohii shikvoN kaa talaatum ik baar
> ab to suukhaa huua darya nahiiN dekha jaataa
> Shakiil
>
> is raaz ko kya jaaneN saahil ke tamaashaaii
> ham Duub ke samjhe haiN daryaa terii gehraaii
> Muzaffar Razmi
>
> kisii ke paas aate haiN to darya suukh jaate haiN
> kisii kii aiRiioN se ret meN chashma niklataa hai
> Munnawar Raana
>
> Best,
>
> Vijay
I meant *qaafie*
Vijay
Naseer
janaab-i-Afzal Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.
Thank you for your explanation and I have no doubt this is what Ghalib
meant. However, for some strange reason, it occurred to me that
perhaps Ghalib was talking about his ashes being immersed in water to
leave no visible trace, such as a grave, where people would attend to
curse the poor poet.
In Urdu, we do not seem to distinguish a verb connected with animate
and inanimate nouns.
Living bodies swim; objects or dead bodies float (tairnaa in both
cases)
Living bodies drown; objects or dead bodies sink/immerse. (Duubnaa in
both cases)
If one takes the meaning of "Gharq honaa" as " to sink/be immersed",
one could stretch the thought to "cremation", don't you think?
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
> On Jan 1, 11:06 pm, Naseer<qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 1, 8:39 pm, Vijay<guz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 12:42 pm, Naseer<qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Haaziriin-i-maHfil, aadaab 'arz hai.
>>>> Let's now get to the nitty-gritty and post some ash'aar with the word, "daryaa" in them.
>>
>>> ham ko to aise samaNdar pe taras aata hai
>>> jo lage pyaas to daryaaoN se paani maaNge
>>
>>> Raj Kumar 'Qais'
>>
>>> Best regards,
>>
>>> Vijay
>>
>> Vijay Sahib, mazah aa gayaa! kyaa kamaal kaa shi'r aap ne pesh kiyaa
>> hai!!
>>
>> Naseer
>
> shukriia Naseer sahib! lekin kamaal to Raj sahib ka hai jinhoN ne itna
> Khuubsuurat she'r taraasha . aap ijaazat deN to un ke kamaal kii aik
> aur misaal isi ghazal ke aik doosre she'r ke zariie pesh karuuN jis
> meN unhoN ne isi qaffie, yaani 'paani', ko aik muKhtalif ma'ani meN
> istemaal kiia hai:
>
> isha'q voh saaNp ki jiska nahiiN maNtar koii
> iska kaaTa mushkil hai ki paani maaNge!!
Maybe one word has been omitted in transcription in the second
misra' :
Is ka kaaTa huwa mushkil hai k(e) paani maaNge
Afzal
>
>
> Vijay
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
We need not stretch the meaning or interpretation so much.
At times, a sort of "samadhi" is made where the ashes of a
cremated individual are enshrined. So there is a distinct
possibility that a permanent 'yaadgaar' or 'smaarak' would
be there that would enable the people to remember the poet
and continue to hurl imprecations against him.
As I see it, the main idea of the poet is to die in such a
manner that would leave no visible sign or 'nishaani'. It
is possible to imagine that the poet is talking about
committing suicide by getting drowned. But this would
again be stretching the sense too much. I feel the poet
is wishing for an accidental death through drowning.
The sher can be interpreted in a somewhat different manner
also. The poet's desire (to die through drowning and
having the body carried away by the current) has actually
remained unfulfilled. In reality, he did die a 'normal'
death, was buried in the usual manner and a grave came up.
And this has enabled the people to remember him for all time.
In other words, his shame and disgrace have been rendered
permanent. And this unfortunate fate is being lamented by
his soul. Just my take.
Afzal
of
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
Vijay
Spot on, Afzal sahib. The omission of 'huaa' was an oversight.
Anyway, it gives the opportunity to post another couple of asha'ar on
'daryaa', both by Jigar. But before I do that, I would like to say
that I have always thought of the feelings behind ghalib she'r that
has been the topic of discussion between you and Naseer sahib, as
being expressed AFTER the poet has died; i.e. your second take on it.
Here are the asha'ar:
yeh ish'q nahiiN aasaN, itna hii samajh liije
ik aag ka daryaa hai, aur Duub ke jaana hai
k'maal-e-tashnagii hii se bujha lete haiN pyaas apnii
isii tapte huue sehra ko ham daryaa samjhte haiN
Best,
Vijay
Naseer
"daryaa" in your shi'r is a river or a sea or both!
Naseer
arahim
>
ab to yehi kaha ja sakta hai
Huwe likh ke hum jo ruswa, kiya kyoN na GHarq-e-darya
Na koi jaalon ka jaal bunta, janjaal hota na wabaal hota
ik taboot e hawa band mazaar hota, jo rocket peh sawar hota
kaash yeh kamaal hota, khala main baysimt mazaar khota
jaalon ka jaal = janjaal = internet:)
> - Show quoted text -
B.G.M.
""har tamaashaa'ii faqat saaHil se manzar dekhtaa
kaun dariyaa ko ulaT,taa kaun gauhar dekhtaa"
yahaaN dariya se muraad "sea" hai( gauhar umuuman "sea" meN paaye
jaate haiN)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aur, Vijay saahab ka darj kiyaa she`r,
"kamaal-e-tashnagii hii se bujha lete haiN pyaas apnii
isii tapte hu`e seHra ko ham dairyaa samjhte haiN"
meN, daiya se muraad :River: hona chaahiye kyuuN k, yahaaN pyaas kaa
zikr hai.
Samandar ke Khaare paani se to ko'ii pyaas nahiiN bujhaayegaa.
======================================================================================================
Naseer
Huwe mar ke hum jo ruswa, huwe kyoN na GHarq-e-darya
Na kaheeN janaaza uTh'ta na kaheeN mazaar hota (Ghalib)
(river/sea)
ham ko to aise samaNdar pe taras aata hai
jo lage pyaas to daryaaoN se paani maaNge (Raj Kumar 'Qais')
(river)
kon kehat hai keh maut a'ee to mar jaoon ga
main to drya hoon, sumandar main utar jaoon ga (Ahmed Nadeem Qasmi )
(river)
ishrat-e-qatra hai darya meN fanaa ho jaana
dard ka had se guzar'naa hai davaa ho jaana! (Ghalib)
(river/sea)
zabt-e-gham, haaN vohii shikvoN kaa talaatum ik baar
ab to suukhaa huua darya nahiiN dekha jaataa (Shakiil)
(river)
is raaz ko kya jaaneN saahil ke tamaashaaii
ham Duub ke samjhe haiN daryaa terii gehraaii (Muzaffar Razmi)
(river/sea… bahut Khuub, Vijay Sahib once again!)
kisii ke paas aate haiN to darya suukh jaate haiN
kisii kii aiRiioN se ret meN chashma niklataa hai (Munnawar Raana)
(sea…………care to give a “sharH” for this shi’r, Vijay Sahib?)
yeh ish'q nahiiN aasaN, itna hii samajh liije
ik aag ka daryaa hai, aur Duub ke jaana hai (Jigar)
(river/sea)
k'maal-e-tashnagii hii se bujha lete haiN pyaas apnii
isii tapte huue sehra ko ham daryaa samjhte haiN
(river)
"har tamaashaa'ii faqat saaHil se manzar dekhtaa
kaun dariyaa ko ulaT,taa kaun gauhar dekhtaa" (?)
(river/sea BGM Sahib, apparently, pearls are found in fresh water
too!)
And the "score", so far.
River 6.5 points
Sea 3.5 points
Concusion (so far), is that in Urdu poetry the word "daryaa" mainly
refers to a river!:-)
Naseer
Naseer
josh-i-giryay hai yih kyuuN mausim-i-piirii meN mujhe
log jaaRoN meN to kam jaate haiN daryaa kii taraf
Akbar Ilaahabaadii
..............................................................................................................
Naseer
Vijay
>
> is raaz ko kya jaaneN saahil ke tamaashaaii
> ham Duub ke samjhe haiN daryaa terii gehraaii (Muzaffar Razmi)
>
> (river/sea… bahut Khuub, Vijay Sahib once again!)
shukriia Naseer sahib!
>
> kisii ke paas aate haiN to darya suukh jaate haiN
> kisii kii aiRiioN se ret meN chashma niklataa hai (Munnawar Raana)
>
> (sea…………care to give a “sharH” for this shi’r, Vijay Sahib?)
My take on this she'r Naseer sahib is the straightforward one; others'
mileagee may vary:
shai'r do tarah ke logoN ke baare meN apne ta'asuraat darj kar raha
hai ki kucch log to aise sookhe, udaas mizaaj ke hote haiN jinke milne
se 'Khoobsoorat logoN ka bhii husan bikhar jaata hai', jaise paani se
bhare darya bhii aik dam sookh jaaeN. aur kucch log aise jinke milne
se 'ghuNche khilne lageN', chashme nikal paRen, aur voh bhii unke koii
Khass koshish kiie b'ghair (aiRiioN se shayad muraad yeh hai ki unke
sirf chlne se hii, yaa aane se hii aisii kaifiiat paida ho jaati hai).
What do you think?
Best regards,
Vijay
Afzal A. Khan
> Vijay
I think the reference in the second misra' is to the Well
known as "Zamzam" located in Mecca. According to Islamic
traditions, Hazrat Haajira (in English, the name is written
as 'Hagar') {wife of the Prophet Ibrahim PBUH} and her
infant son Hazrat Ismail were in a dry, arid valley (where
the Holy City of Mecca stands today). And when the thirsty
child started crying for water, his mother started running
desperately between the hills of Safa and Marwa, trying to
locate water. Tradition holds that Hazrat Ismail hit the
sandy tract with his heels and this Eternal Spring came up.
Those hills have vanished and there is now an elegant covered
passageway constructed between the two spots. And, in commemora-
tion of Hazrat Haajira's desperate run between the two hills,
Hajj pilgrims also run or walk between the two spots seven
times, as a part of the Hajj rituals.
Afzal
Vijay
Thanks for supplying this (rather beautiful) reference. This makes me
wonder whether the first line may also have some historic/religious/
biblical reference? Perhaps Moses and parting of the sea? In that
case, both lines of the she'r allude to something miraculous,
beautiful and touched by the divine. In this case, the she'r loses
some of its punch. To my mind, two line of the verse are projecting a
contrasting image, the first line alluding to something or someone
which/who brings about misery by its mere presence (or looks), and the
second line portraying something miraculous and elegant.
Regards,
Vijay
Naseer
Vijay Sahib, aadaab.
When I posed you the question, I had the same answer in mind that I
could never have expressed as elequently as Afzal Sahib has done.
Moreover, I was also thinking that the first line alludes to Mose's
(PBUH) parting of the sea. However, I have my doubts because the
wording, "kisii ke paas aate haiN to daryaa suukh jaate haiN" is not
quite the same as "jab ko'ii daryaa ke paas jaataa hai to vuh suukh
jaataa hai", is it? I was thinking of the base of the sea drying up
when God almighty parted the sea for Moses and his people to escape
from the tyrannical Pharoah.
Naseer
Zuhra
yooN warna mudda'ii lab e daryaa bohat se haiN (Mohsin Ehsaan)
yahaaN, daryaa = samandar
.......
dil daryaa samandaroN dooNghe kon dilaaN diyaaN jaane hoo
vichche beRe, vichche jhere, vichche waNjh muhaane hoo (Sultan Bahu)
dooNghe = gehre
vichche = iske andar
jheraa = puraanaa kooaaN
vaNjh = chappu
muhaane = mallah