Faiz's tanhai

[Musafir]

Faiz ki is nazm ki takmeel aap logoon ke husn-e-zoq-e-sukhan ki
nazr hea.
----------
TANHAI
----------

phir koi aaya dil-e-zaar nahin koi nahin
rah ro ho ga kahin aur chala jaye ga

dhal chuki raat bikharney kaga taroon ka ghubaar
laRkhaRaney lagey aewanoon main khabeeda chiraagh
su gaee rasta tak tak ke har ik rehguzaar
ajnabi khaak ne dhundla diye qadmoon ke suragh
gul kao shama baRha do may-o-meena-e-ayaagh

apney bekhaab kiwaRoon ko muqaffal kar lo
ab yahan koi nahin koi nahin aye ga
----------

is nazm ki takmeel main, bandey ne sirif hafzey ka sahara liya
hea. is baat ko paish-e-nazr rakhtey hoey tahreer main payee
janey wali kisi bhi khami ko sirif fidvi ki jahalat se ibarat
kiya jaye.

aur haan YOGGESH JI aap ki bohat bohat nawazish, magar aap ki
zarra nawazi ne mujhey bohat sharminda kar diya hea.mujh jaisey
jahil ki kiya bisaat ke kisi ki taseeh kar sakoon, main tu khud
abhi tak maktaba-e-Urdu ke ibtadaee darjey main pohanchney ki
jid-o-jehad kar raha hoon

Salah-e-aam hea yaraan-e-nuqta daan ke liye

--
~ Musafir
------------------------------------------

safar darpaish hea aik be musafat
musafat ho tu koi rasta nain

------------------------------------------

[cAt]

I remember some of it. could someone complete it?

phir koi aya
dil-e-zar nahin, koi nahin
raah ro ho ga

kahin aur chala jaye ga

gul karo shamaiN
barha do muy-o-meena-o-ayyaagh
apnay bekhaab kivaaroN ko muqafful ker lo
ab yahaN koi nahin koi nahin aye ga

[Anonymous]

In article <342A91...@hotmail.com>, namel...@hotmail.com says...

Completed as follows:
Phir koi aya dil-e-zar nahi koi nahi
rahro hoga kahin aur chala jayega

Dhal chuki raat bikharne laga taron ka ghubar
dagmagane lage aiwano main khwabeda chiraggh

Thuck gai rasta tak tak ke hur ik rah guzar
ajnabi khak ne dhundladea qadmon ke suragh

Gul kara shamen barha do mai-o-meena-o-ayagh
apne bekhwab keevaron ko maqaffal karlo
Ab yehan koi nahi koi nahi ayega

Enjoy it!

[Naseer]

Here is the complete nazm and my attempt at its translation.

tanhaa'ii

phir ko'ii aayaa, dil-i-zaar, nahiiN ko'ii nahiiN
raah-rau ho gaa, kahiiN aur chalaa jaa'e gaa
Dhal chukii raat, bikharne lagaa taaroN kaa Ghubaar
laRkhaRaane lage aivaanoN meN xvaabiidah charaaGh
so ga'ii raastah tak tak ke har ik raah-guzaar
ajnabii xaak ne dhuNdlaa diye qadmoN ke suraaGh
gul karo sham3eN, baRhaa do mai-o-miinaa-o-ayaaGh
apne be-xvaab kivaaRoN ko muqaffal kar do
ab yahaaN ko'ii nahiiN ko'ii nahiiN aa'e gaa!

Loneliness

Is there someone at the door, O afflicted heart? No, there is no one
Perhaps it's some traveller, he (too) might head for elsewhere
The night is almost over, clusters of stars have now begun to scatter
The sleepy lamps in the hallways have started to flicker
Every single path has fallen asleep, tired of keeping an eye out (for my beloved)
Dust from a strange land has obliterated any signs of the footprints
Extinguish all the candles, bring forward wine, the pitcher and the cup
Lock up all the sleepless doors of my house
No one will come here now, no one!

................................................................................

Naseer

[srinage...@gmail.com]

Very nice translation, Naseer Sahib. One question: In his translation, Victor Kiernan renders "baDha do" as "remove." You translate it as bring forward. Are both translations correct, or do we conclude that Kiernan got it wrong?

Nagesh

[Naseer]

No, Nagesh SaaHib, I believe he has got it right and I've got it wrong! The truth of the matter is that I did not really look into the meaning of "baRhaanaa" in the proper context. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Naseer

[srinage...@gmail.com]

I'll take your word for it, Naseer Sahib! Kiernan did not speak Urdu, but Faiz did review his efforts.

Regards,

Nagesh

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

Aap ne ach'chha kiya jo yeh "GHalati" tasleem kar li.
In the process, you also sort of pre-empted my
intention to iterate the same point.

***********

In Mirza Ghalib's last days, his intake of food had
become minimal. This point had been mentioned in some
book, though I can't pinpoint it today. Either it was
Maulana Haali's "Yaadgaar-e-Ghalib" or perhaps
"Aab-e-Hayaat". Here is the quotation :


"...Jab un ke saamne khaana pesh kiya gaya, unhoN ne
sirf do-chaar luqme liye, aur rakaabi aage baRHaadi".



Afzal

[Zoya]

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 7:14:26 PM UTC-5, nages...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'll take your word for it, Naseer Sahib! Kiernan did not speak Urdu, but Faiz did review his efforts.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nagesh
>

One question: In his translation, Victor Kiernan renders "baDha do" as "remove."
> > >

> > > Nagesh

> > >

> > No, Nagesh SaaHib, I believe he has got it right and I've got it wrong! The truth of the matter is that I did not really look into the meaning of "baRhaanaa" in the proper context. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
> >
> > Naseer

Nagesh sahib/Naseer sahib,

Interesting observation. I want to add one more point, I have actually heard my older Punjabi lady relatives use 'baRhaa do' in a similar sense in conversations. In particular, I have heard this usage for disposing of stale cooked food, e.g. "(Punjabi) daal/sabji behi ho gayi, eh nuuN vadhaa daiiye/ (Urdu translation)...baasi ho gayi hai, ise baRhaa dete haiN".

And after all, Faiz was a Punjabi! :)

___Zoya

[Naseer]

On Sunday, 3 May 2020 16:23:58 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
>
> Interesting observation. I want to add one more point, I have actually heard my older Punjabi lady relatives use 'baRhaa do' in a similar sense in conversations. In particular, I have heard this usage for disposing of stale cooked food, e.g. "(Punjabi) daal/sabji behi ho gayi, eh nuuN vadhaa daiiye/ (Urdu translation)...baasi ho gayi hai, ise baRhaa dete haiN".
>
> And after all, Faiz was a Punjabi! :)
>
> ___Zoya

I have not come across the Punjabi equivalent, Zoya SaaHibah.

Naseer

[Naseer]

Thank you for providing an "isnaad", from Ghalib's life Afzal SaaHib.

Naseer

[Naseer]

On Saturday, 2 May 2020 19:59:31 UTC+1, nages...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Very nice translation, Naseer Sahib. One question: In his translation, Victor Kiernan renders "baDha do" as "remove." You translate it as bring forward. Are both translations correct, or do we conclude that Kiernan got it wrong?
>
> Nagesh
>

Here is another attempt Nagesh SaaHib.

tanhaa'ii

phir ko'ii aayaa, dil-i-zaar, nahiiN ko'ii nahiiN
raah-rau ho gaa, kahiiN aur chalaa jaa'e gaa
Dhal chukii raat, bikharne lagaa taaroN kaa Ghubaar
laRkhaRaane lage aivaanoN meN xvaabiidah charaaGh
so ga'ii raastah tak tak ke har ik raah-guzaar
ajnabii xaak ne dhuNdlaa diye qadmoN ke suraaGh
gul karo sham3eN, baRhaa do mai-o-miinaa-o-ayaaGh
apne be-xvaab kivaaRoN ko muqaffal kar do
ab yahaaN ko'ii nahiiN ko'ii nahiiN aa'e gaa!


Loneliness

O afflicted heart! Is someone at the door? No, not a soul
A wayfarer perhaps. He will head off on to another road
The night is over; the star dust is beginning to scatter

The sleepy lamps in the hallways have started to flicker

Tired of keeping a look out, every pathway is in snooze
Alien dust has settled to obsecure the footsteps' clues
Take away the cups, the wine and blow the candles out
Lock up these sleepless doors of your forsaken abode
Not a single soul is going to come here now, not a soul

................................................................................

Naseer

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

Let me compliment you on a splendid translation.

Incidentally. we have been talking about films and film
songs too, for the last few days.

Two lines from the above poem were recited in a film that
was released about 55 years back. Somehow the film's name
escapes me at the moment. And the actor who spoke these two
lines was the funster Rajinder Nath, younger brother of
yester-year hero Prem Nath. The film could have been
"Phir Wohi Dil Laaya HooN", released in 1963.

And these are the lines :

Apne be~KHwaab kiwaaRoN ko muqaffal kar do
Ab yahaaN koi naheeN, koi naheeN aayega


Maybe somebody can furnish the film's name.



Afzal

[srinage...@gmail.com]

Another very nice translation, Naseer Sahib. One small typo ("obsecure") which I point out only to show you that I have read your contribution with great interest and care. Like the original, the translation has a somewhat unusual pattern of rhymes.


Faiz has been translated by several people: Kiernan (the best), Sarvat Rehman, Shiv Kumar, Agha Shahid Ali come readily to mind. I would rank you high on the list.

Regards,

Nagesh

[srinage...@gmail.com]

Naseer Sahib:

Here are the first few lines from several translations of Faiz's "Loneliness." These translators went through the same mental exercise you undertook. I thought the results might be of interest to you.

Kiernan:

Someone has come at last, sad heart! - No, no-one is there:
A traveler must be going by, bound some other way.
The starry maze is wavering, night sinks to its decline.
About the halls the nodding lamps gutter and go out.

Shiv Kumar:

Is someone out there again,
O my aggrieved heart?
No, perhaps some passerby, bound elsewhere.

The night is snapping at the seams,
scattered is the cluster of stars
and down the hallways
the drowsy tapers are gasping away.

Agha Shahid Ali:

Someone, finally, is here! No, unhappy heart, no-one -
just a passerby on his way.
The night has surrendered
to clouds of scattered stars.
The lamps in the halls waver.

Sarvat Rehman

Who goes there, O heart bereaved? No one, no one.
A wayfarer perhaps, who will go elsewhere.
Night has waned, the dust of stars is scattering:
In great halls the sleepy lamps are fluttering.

Nabokov had some very cruel things to say about translations. His views are collected and presented in convenient form in "Verses and Versions." Here is the opening cite, taken from his sonnet on translating Pushkin's Eugene Onegin.

"What is translation? On a platter
A poet's pale and glaring head.
A parrot's screech, a monkey's chatter,
And profanation of the dead."

A warning that many of us (including me) ignore. Translation is difficult, which is why so many people rise to the challenge. Nabokov was no exception. Some of his translations from the Russian originals are (in my opinion) first rate English poetry.

Nagesh

[Naseer]

Nagesh SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai

First of all gratitude is due to you and Afzal SaaHib for your appreciative comments on my meagre efforts at translation of this short Faiz poem. Compared with the efforts of others you have quoted, it does not appear to be too bad!:-)

You may wonder what made me translate it. Well, in another language group (Indo-Iranian languages) someone quoted four lines from this piece and asked a, language based question about it. I translate the poem and answered his question. The interesting thing is that I erringly translated "raah-rau" as "highwayman" because I had Walter de la Mare's "The Listeners" in mind. Highwayman is of course "raah-zan".

I just copy-pasted that 2012 translation, correcting the "highwayman" to "traveller, as no one had challenged me on the accuracy of the poem! I am grateful to you for pointing out the inaccuracy. If you had not done so, I would have gone on my merry way thinking I had done a half decent job. With your intervention, I thought I would re-do it and even attempt to bring some rhyme into it! As you and Zoya SaaHibah have said, translation is no mean feat and I have a lot of respect for those who venture into this field and even more regard for those who manage to do a good job.

Naseer

[srinage...@gmail.com]

The Highwayman was also part of most high school anthologies in my time, Naseer Sahib.

I did like your translation. The others were not as rhythmic.

Translations do serve a useful purpose, as I will try to argue in a separate post. Interestingly, it ties back to your last post on this subject.

Nagesh

On Wednesday, September 24, 1997 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Musafir wrote:
> Faiz ki is nazm ki takmeel aap logoon ke husn-e-zoq-e-sukhan ki
> nazr hea.
> ----------
> TANHAI
> ----------
>
> phir koi aaya dil-e-zaar nahin koi nahin

> rah ro ho ga kahin aur chala jaye ga

>
> dhal chuki raat bikharney kaga taroon ka ghubaar
> laRkhaRaney lagey aewanoon main khabeeda chiraagh
> su gaee rasta tak tak ke har ik rehguzaar
> ajnabi khaak ne dhundla diye qadmoon ke suragh
> gul kao shama baRha do may-o-meena-e-ayaagh
>
> apney bekhaab kiwaRoon ko muqaffal kar lo

> ab yahan koi nahin koi nahin aye ga

[Afzal A. Khan]

Nagesh and Naseer Saahibaan


With due respect and apologies..........

While I greatly admire and appreciate these translations,
please permit me to make an observation, which I am doing
with considerable trepidation.

Would it not be better if we posted URDU translations of
original works in the English (or some other) language ?

After all, our Newsgroup is an URDU Newsgroup !!

I have a faint recollection of at least two instances where
I had posted Urdu translations of English poems, viz.
"The Cataract of Lodore" by Robert Southey, and "Ode To The
West Wind" by Shelley. Our resident expert, Naseer Saheb
can no doubt trace the two instances. In the case of Robert
Southey's poem, the translation (in verse) was done by the
late Akbar Ilaahabadi (death --> 1921). In the other case,
the translation of Shelley's poem was done by a gentleman
Qudratullah Shahaab (a former ICS Officer, who migrated to
Pakistan after Independence and died there in 1986).

There might have been other instances where I had posted such
translations, but I don't remember them now.

In due course, perhaps, I may be able to post a few more such
Urdu translations of works im the English language.



Afzal

[srinage...@gmail.com]

I look forward to your Urdu translations, Afzal Sahib. I think it was Jamil Sahib who posted Faiz's translation of Browning on this group many years ago. That was a fun thread.

Regards,

Nagesh

[Naseer]

Is this the thread you have in mind, Nagesh SaaHib?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.language.urdu.poetry/Faiz$27s$20translation$20of$20Browning$20%7Csort:date/alt.language.urdu.poetry/XcZIEvpLqis/79RQgohmMQoJ

Naseer

[Naseer]

On Saturday, 9 May 2020 03:07:35 UTC+1, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>

> Nagesh and Naseer Saahibaan
>
>
> With due respect and apologies..........
>
> While I greatly admire and appreciate these translations,
> please permit me to make an observation, which I am doing
> with considerable trepidation.
>
> Would it not be better if we posted URDU translations of
> original works in the English (or some other) language ?
>
> After all, our Newsgroup is an URDU Newsgroup !!
>
> I have a faint recollection of at least two instances where
> I had posted Urdu translations of English poems, viz.
> "The Cataract of Lodore" by Robert Southey, and "Ode To The
> West Wind" by Shelley. Our resident expert, Naseer Saheb
> can no doubt trace the two instances. In the case of Robert
> Southey's poem, the translation (in verse) was done by the
> late Akbar Ilaahabadi (death --> 1921). In the other case,
> the translation of Shelley's poem was done by a gentleman
> Qudratullah Shahaab (a former ICS Officer, who migrated to
> Pakistan after Independence and died there in 1986).
>
> There might have been other instances where I had posted such
> translations, but I don't remember them now.
>
> In due course, perhaps, I may be able to post a few more such
> Urdu translations of works im the English language.
>
>
>
> Afzal

janaab-i-Afzal SaaHib tasliimaat.

You make a very valid point Afzal SaaHib and for my redemption I present to you this thread, in which I have tried to collect those threads in which we have Urdu translations of poetry from other languages. It is of course not an exhaustive collection and you and other friends might be able to add to it.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.language.urdu.poetry/ylHRFkgFY6E

If I may be so bold to suggest to you that you too have indulged in this sort of activity but we are glad that you did so!

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.language.urdu.poetry/translations%7Csort:date/alt.language.urdu.poetry/AIun10tzjGo/5J1prFmt4kwJ (A Psychological Poem By Iqbal -- "MaaN Ka KH(w)aab" -- English Translation & Commentary)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.language.urdu.poetry/translations%7Csort:date/alt.language.urdu.poetry/9e9quozSEbs/vgH3tke3_jMJ (English Renditions of Urdu Poetry --- The Reverse Process)

Naseer

[srinage...@gmail.com]

Yes, indeed. I miss Jamil Sahib. I believe he lived in Africa - I do not know which country he was in.

Nagesh

[Zoya]

>
> Yes, indeed. I miss Jamil Sahib. I believe he lived in Africa - I do not know which country he was in.
>
> Nagesh

I remember. Botswana.

___Zoya

[Naseer]

Nagesh SaaHib, aadaab.

I meant to ask this question at the time but it slipped my memory. If Kiernan did n't know Urdu, how did he manage to translate Urdu poetry?

Naseer

[nageshsahib]

Naseer Sahib:

This is a good question, and one that might be equally well directed at Coleman Barks and his use of others' translations.

Kiernan's case is different. From the Foreword:

"With regard to the rest of the work, my own knowledge of the language and its literary complexities is very far from sufficient to have enabled me to get on without a great deal of aid and counsel. 'Truly sir, in respect of a fine workman, I am but as you would say a cobbler.' "

He goes on to thank many others for their help, including Faiz, Ralph Russell, and Dr. Nazir Ahmad of Govt, College, Lahore.

However, his obituary says: "He learned Urdu, spoke it and became so passionate about the language and the poetry that he later translated Iqbal and Faiz: (a) ‘Poems From Iqbal: Renderings In English Verse with Comparative Urdu Text by Muhammad Iqbal’ (Reprinted 2005: ISBN 13: 9780195799743; ISBN 10: 0195799747) and, (b) ‘Poems by Faiz’ (ISBN: 0-19-565198-7), dedicated to Begum Alys Faiz."

I remember reading somewhere that his Urdu was not good - practically non-existent, but I cannot remember where I saw that. In any event, he had the help of many native Urdu speakers.

My Urdu is non-existent, yet I can read and understand with the help of a dictionary, and the good-natured support I find on this forum. I can also translate, but that is another kettle of fish. I now view translation as a hobby akin to solving crosswords.

Regards,

Nagesh

[Naseer]

Nagesh SaaHib, Coleman's case is indeed different. This is what I wrote about him in another thread of 2008 vintage in which you also took part.

"Coleman Barks is a retired American professor of English and a poet and has found untold fame through translations of works of Rumi and other Farsi poets. Amongst his works are, " The Essential Rumi" which he translated with Professor John Moyne and "Unseen Rain" which are quatrains of Rumi. But, it came to me as a complete surprise (or should I say shock and horror!) that he does not know Farsi. He can neither speak it nor read it. Yet, strangely enough, his works are
described as "translations", but without the inverted commas. He bases his translations entirely on English translations of others, producing his work primarily as free verse. On occasions, he has mixed lines from different poems resulting in works which may be termed as "original creations".

In another forum, this is what another gentleman wrote about him. Someone asked about a quote and wanted to know the original Persian. The quote was, "Quietness is the surest sign that you've died."

"Unfortunately the quote is most likely invented, not a real quote. It comes from Coleman Barks, a fraud who claims to "translate" Mawlana Rumi's poetry though he openly admits he does not know any Persian himself. Basically, he writes his own poetry and then claims it is a "translation" from Rumi. So if you are looking for a Persian original for this quote, it most likely does not exist, as it was composed in English by Coleman Barks."

As for Mr Victor Kiernan, I suspect he was as humble as our Nagesh SaaHib! I remember Jamil SaaHib speaking about you in glowing terms. If I remember correctly, I think he said Urdu was your third or fourth language. I don't think you are doing too badly, Nagesh SaaHib. In fact I would say, you are more knowledgeable and accomplished in Urdu poetry than a lot of Urdu speakers. One Urdu equivalent for non-existence is "3adam" and in your case...a quote attributed to Josh.... "yih hai 3adam to vujuud kyaa hai?"!

Naseer

[nageshsahib]

You have a remarkable memory, Naseer Sahib! And a kind and generous heart.

Jamil Sahib is still teaching chemistry in Botswana. I miss him and I miss Ali Minai Sahib, too.

Regards,

Nagesh

[Afzal A. Khan]

On 6/24/2020 12:41 PM, Naseer wrote:





> One Urdu equivalent for non-existence is "3adam" and in your case...a quote attributed to Josh.... "yih hai 3adam to vujuud kyaa hai?"!
>
> Naseer

Mukarramee,

Do pardon me for butting in......

As most people are no doubt aware, Abdul Hameed 'Adam Saheb was
a rather stout gentleman. As has been mentioned in this thread,
his taKHallus "'Adam" signifies a sort of "nothingness".

At one Mushaa'ira, when Janaab 'Adam Saheb was called to the
stage, Josh Maleehabadi reportedly remarked :

"Aga yehi hai 'adam to vujood kya hoga"

"Vujood" of course means "existence".


Afzal