chhoTi behr : An unusual experiment
Rajiv Chakravarti
There has been a recent rise in GHazals posted
by some of the talented participants of this forum
and it has been a pleasure to read some "fresh"
ideas/thoughts in some "unusual" radeef/qaafiya
schemes.
Along this vein, together with the not-so-recent
talk of metrical patterns and behr's, I thought I
would share an "experiment" I ran across a few
years ago.
The following "GHazal" [it could technically be a
"GHair-muraddaf" GHazal... ] was, IMO, a brilliant
experiment in a new "chhoTi behr" - which does not
follow any of the classical "behrs" that were talked
about on this forum some time ago..
Nevertheless, I enjoyed the result of this experiment
and thought I would share it. The poet (not ME!) is
"Karaamat" Gardezi, who is relatively well-known in
Pakistan, and has a few books to his fame. He is
currently a resident of the Dallas/FortWorth, TX
metroplex and still very prolific. It is an honor
to have his acquaintance.
I had never run across such an unusually short metre
in Urdu poetry before and thought it was quite
delightful. The scheme is certainly "contemporary"
(new to me at least, since I prefer the classical
styles myself). Needless to say -- the shorter the
metre, the more difficult it is to put one's thoughts
into words...
Enough rambling for now, I guess. Hope the readers
enjoy this as much as I did.
With regards,
Rajiv
====================================================
haasil-e-safar
gard-e-rehguzar
jee sake to jee
mar sake to mar
maiN hooN gum kahaaN
kuchch meri KHabar ?!
ratjage KHareed
KHwaab bech kar
kaam haiN taveel
'umr muKHtasar
kashti-e-havaa
suth-e-aab par
garmi-e-hayaat
raqs-e-yak sharar
kab se hai muheet
shaam-e- be-sahar
naqsh-e-natamaam
woh bhi KHaak par
sairgaah-e-dil
dasht-e-pur KHatar
so gaye charaaGH
jaag uThi sahar
aadmi ko hai
aadmi ka Dar
kyaa tera fusooN
kyaa teri nazar
kyaa karooN fazaa?
baal hai na par
haiN "Karaamat" aap
raushni ka dar
======================================================
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Before you buy.
U.V. Ravindra
> Namashkaar aur aadaab,
AmmmaaaaaAAAaaaazing!
sach much GHazab ki GHazal hai, Rajiv saheb! ise
post karne ka shukriya!
<snip>
> Needless to say -- the shorter the metre, the more
> difficult it is to put one's thoughts into words...
... and the greater the appreciation a sh'aair[aa]
deserves/receives whenever [s]he successfully accomplishes
this task! Especially, when it seems to have been achieved
with such apparent ease as in the Ghazal you have
posted. baa_wajood is kE ke Ghazal ki behr itni muKhtasar
hai -- yaa shaayad us ki wajah se? (*grin*) [Raj sahib
will be able to say which] -- ash'aar meiN taKHayyul
gahra [lag raha] hai.
kuchh bhi ho, waaqai itniiii chhoTi behr ki GHazal kah
sakna har shaa'ir ke bas ka rog nahiN hai ... this has
got to be the shortest behr I have ever come across!
Shorter, even, than the experim
yogesh...@my-deja.com
> by some of the talented participants of this forum
> and it has been a pleasure to read some "fresh"
> ideas/thoughts in some "unusual" radeef/qaafiya
> schemes.
>
> Along this vein, together with the not-so-recent
> talk of metrical patterns and behr's, I thought I
> would share an "experiment" I ran across a few
> years ago.
>
> The following "GHazal" [it could technically be a
> "GHair-muraddaf" GHazal... ] was, IMO, a brilliant
> experiment in a new "chhoTi behr" - which does not
> follow any of the classical "behrs" that were talked
> about on this forum some time ago..
>
with us.
>...
> aadmi ko hai
> aadmi ka Dar
>
Rajiv Sahib, I am delighted to see your post. We seldom hear from you!
May I take this opportunity to raise some metric points. I wonder if you
can add to our knowledge of meters as is employed in ghazals. Can you
comment on some of its finer nuances. We are somewhat familiar with the
fact that most of them are of Arabic/Persian origin. Some are of
Sanskrit origin. But their rigidity/flexibility of the rules is what I
wish to explore further. One of the scholars has suggested that Mir
combined two 'shorts' to make one 'long' in some meters at certain
locations.
One of the questions on my mind is can we, under any circumstances,
combine two shorts into a long, i.e. ((consonant + short vowel) +
(consonant + short vowel)) = long syllable? If that is so, under what
conditions is it permissible?
Regards,
Yogesh
Rajiv Chakravarti
yogesh...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Rajiv Sahib, I am delighted to see your post. We seldom hear from you!
> May I take this opportunity to raise some metric points. I wonder if
you
> can add to our knowledge of meters as is employed in ghazals. Can you
> comment on some of its finer nuances. We are somewhat familiar with
the
> fact that most of them are of Arabic/Persian origin. Some are of
> Sanskrit origin. But their rigidity/flexibility of the rules is what I
> wish to explore further. One of the scholars has suggested that Mir
> combined two 'shorts' to make one 'long' in some meters at certain
> locations.
>
> One of the questions on my mind is can we, under any circumstances,
> combine two shorts into a long, i.e. ((consonant + short vowel) +
> (consonant + short vowel)) = long syllable? If that is so, under what
> conditions is it permissible?
>
> Regards,
>
> Yogesh
Yogesh-saahib,
aadaab. Thanks for your response. I am glad you enjoyed
the GHazal.
To answer your erudite questions -- I must say that I am just a
beginner and student of the language and therefore must plead
ignorance, to be honest with you.
Your questions would receive better answers if directed toward
more knowledgeable people such as RajKumar-sahib or Ali Minai
sahib, to name a couple of gentlemen.
If I may be candid (and reveal my ignorance in the process!), I'd
say that the metre in Urdu GHazal is "more often than not" of the
Arabic/Persian scheme. I know very little about the rules of
poetry in Sanskrit, but I have been told that it is even more
rigid than what we would see in the standard GHazal. I have heard
of rules which go something like:
" .. In addition to the length/syllable structure being the same
in every line of the poem, every 3rd, 6th, and 9th word (or
something to that effect) *must* have the identical consonant
in the poem... "!!!
Imagine how difficult that must have been !!!
As a side note: the "Telugu" language is very well known for its
rich poetic traditions and the classical styles are said to follow
the older traditions of Sanskrit poetry very strictly. I have come
across some examples of these poems myself and saw some rules
such as mentioned above -- BUT not being conversant with the
literary side of the language, I could not follow and therefore
appreciate the poetry.. It was very enlightening though...
As to your other question of subtituting 2 short (consonant+vowel)
parts for a LONG syllable, I have seen the classical poets do this
too. It is quite possible that in the strictest sense, perhaps it
is not completely "proper" - but that is something I am not too
sure of. There are poets even today who frown at the usage of
"alif" -ending words intermixed with "'ain or he" -ending words in
the qaafia of a GHazal. But now, contemporary poets use this all
the time too. In the strictest sense, these poets would avoid
such construction.. Who is to say what is really proper then...?
I know I might not have answered your questions because I really
do not know the answers myself.. Please do share your own
thoughts and ideas in this matter - I am sure I can learn something
in the process.
With regards,
Rajiv
--
===============================================
RAJIV CHAKRAVARTI
rc...@yahoo.com
yogesh...@my-deja.com
Rajiv Chakravarti <raj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8jnujs$1j9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>
> Yogesh-saahib,
>
> aadaab. Thanks for your response. I am glad you enjoyed
>
> Your questions would receive better answers if directed toward
> more knowledgeable people such as RajKumar-sahib or Ali Minai
> sahib, to name a couple of gentlemen.
>
I wish that were so! I have tried, but to no avail! I do get cryptic
remarks here and there but Rajkumar sb just clams up whenever I try to
pursue the metric aspects of a ghazal.We have not heard from Ali Minai
sb in quite a while. There is one other person though, a real fortress
of knowledge, Amit Trivedi. His exchanges with the Harvard scholar
Philip Nikolayev are among the most profound that I have read on the
net. Unfortunately I was away at the time and could not participate in
that discussion. But if Amit sb is listening and would come in that will
really light up this conversation.
> If I may be candid (and reveal my ignorance in the process!), I'd
> say that the metre in Urdu GHazal is "more often than not" of the
> Arabic/Persian scheme. I know very little about the rules of
> poetry in Sanskrit, but I have been told that it is even more
> rigid than what we would see in the standard GHazal. I have heard
> of rules which go something like:
> " .. In addition to the length/syllable structure being the same
> in every line of the poem, every 3rd, 6th, and 9th word (or
> something to that effect) *must* have the identical consonant
> in the poem... "!!!
> Imagine how difficult that must have been !!!
>
You are right about the rigidity in the metric structure of Sanskrit. It
treats every sentence as one unbroken chain of syllables and is far more
rigid than what we have for ghazals. The binding called 'Sandhi' is
achieved by the initial and final letters. The avoidance of a hiatus is
the primary goal: the rules of Sandhi provide such guidance plus
assimilation. Shloka can be regarded as 'the Indian verse par
excellence' and is the Epic verse developed from the the Vedic Anustab.
Almost all-Sanskrit poetry is written in 'paadas' - four metric lines.
Classical Sanskrit verse is considerably different from Vedic hymns and
has stricter rules. The meters can be divided into two categories: they
are either measured by syllables or by the number of morae. Measurement
of the quantity is similar to that in Latin and Greek. One mora is the
count for a short vowel and two for a long vowel. It is very complex!
But, I am drifting too far away from our original premise - meter in
ghazals!
Regards,
Yogesh
rajkp...@my-deja.com
U.V. Ravindra <u...@usa.net> wrote:
> Rajiv Chakravarti <raj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Needless to say -- the shorter the metre, the more
> > difficult it is to put one's thoughts into words...
>
> ... and the greater the appreciation a sh'aair[aa]
> deserves/receives whenever [s]he successfully accomplishes
> this task! Especially, when it seems to have been achieved
> with such apparent ease as in the Ghazal you have
> posted. baa_wajood is kE ke Ghazal ki behr itni muKhtasar
> hai -- yaa shaayad us ki wajah se? (*grin*) [Raj sahib
> will be able to say which] -- ash'aar meiN taKHayyul
> gahra [lag raha] hai.
Ravindra saahib aur Rajiv saahib:
baihr chaahe lambi ho chaahe chhoTi, achhchha she'r kehna to hamesha hi
mushkil rahaa hai. magar is meiN koi shak naheeN ke agar do she'r
baraabar ki Takkar ke hoN to un meiN se chhoTi baihr vaala she'r
ziyaada mo'assir hota hai aur ziyaada daad paata hai. yeh baat,
shaa'iroN ke ilaava, gulookaaroN ne bhi note ki hai aur un ki koshish
yihi rehti hai ke un ki gaayee huyee ghazaleN ziyaada se ziyaada chhoTi
baihr ki hoN. maiN ne aek gulookaar se is ki vajah daryaaft ki to kehne
lage ke "saam'een ka 'attention span' itna thoRa hota hai ke voh lambi
baihr ke she'r ko thoRe arse meiN jazb naheeN kar paate; is liye, voh
chhoTi baihr ke ash'aar ko ziyaada samajhte hain aur ziyaada pasand
karte haiN".
jahaaN tak shaa'iroN ki baat hai, beshtar sho'raa lambi baihr meiN
aasaani se likh lete haiN aur chhoTi baihr se katraate haiN ---
kiyooNke vahaaN par baat kehne ko jagah bahut kam hoti hai. taaham,
kuchh aise bhi haiN jo lambi baihr ko saNbhaal naheeN paate aur chhoTi
baihr meiN kehna muqaabiltan aasaan samajhte haiN.
maiN abhi abhi do ghazaleN aek tarahi mushaa'ire ke liye likh kar
faarigh huya hooN. yeh mushaa'ira "ba-yaad-e-Ghaalib" ke naam se
Toronto meiN hone vaala hai. rivaayat ke mutaabiq, voh log aek tarah
lambi baihr ki aur aek chhoTi baihr ki dete haiN. is saal ke
misra-e-tarah haiN:
1. tamaashaa-e-jahaaN muft-e-nazar hai
2. gham voh afsaana ke aashufta-bayaani maaNge
meri abhi abhi Janaab At'har Razvi Sahib se, jo ke is mushaa'ire ke
muntazim haiN, baat ho rahi thi. unhoN ne bataaya ke kul 18 sho'raa
meiN se koi 13-14 ne lambi baihr ki ghazal kehna aasaan samjha hai aur
baaqi 4-5 ne chhoTi baihr ko aasaan samjha hai. Though I felt
comfortable with both the baihrs, the 'chhoTi' one indeed gave me a
much tougher time!
> kuchh bhi ho, waaqai itnii chhoTi behr ki GHazal kah
> sakna har shaa'ir ke bas ka rog nahiN hai ... this has
> got to be the shortest behr I have ever come across!
Ravindra Sahib, aap ke tajrube meiN yeh baihr bhale hi 'shortest' ho
magar likhne vaale is se bhi kaheeN aage nikal gaye haiN. Here is a
(true) nazm by Qateel Shifaa'ii:
paise!
kaise?
That is it!!! kisi ne Theek hi kahaa hai ke "any concept, however
appealing, can be taken to its absurd extreme".
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Vijay S. Bajwa
ghazal. Very refreshing!
--
Vijay S. Bajwa
"Great minds think for themselves"
"U.V. Ravindra" wrote:
>
> Rajiv Chakravarti <raj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Namashkaar aur aadaab,
>
> AmmmaaaaaAAAaaaazing!
>
[deleted]
> > ====================================================
> >
> > haasil-e-safar
> > gard-e-rehguzar
> >
> > jee sake to jee
> > mar sake to mar
> >
> > maiN hooN gum kahaaN
> > kuchch meri KHabar ?!
> >
> > ratjage KHareed
> > KHwaab bech kar
> >
> > kaam haiN taveel
> > 'umr muKHtasar
> >
> > kashti-e-havaa
> > suth-e-aab par
> >
> > garmi-e-hayaat
> > raqs-e-yak sharar
> >
> > kab se hai muheet
> > shaam-e- be-sahar
> >
> > naqsh-e-natamaam
> > woh bhi KHaak par
> >
> > sairgaah-e-dil
> > dasht-e-pur KHatar
> >
> > so gaye charaaGH
> > jaag uThi sahar
> >
> > aadmi ko hai
> > aadmi ka Dar
> >
> > kyaa tera fusooN
> > kyaa teri nazar
> >
> > kyaa karooN fazaa?
> > baal hai na par
> >
> > haiN "Karaamat" aap
> > raushni ka dar
>
DDAPKHAN
retired lives in Fort worth area.. he has at least two ghazal books printed..
he learnt from his father who learnt from Seemab Akbarabadi..He is good person
and always welcoms Urdu poets..he also is a co-founder of urdu literary
soceity of Dallas Fort Worth area.. He is known there and his name and number
is on mushairah flyers..he is excellent one to discuss things..
Rajiv Chakravarti
An interesting coincidence. Raaz-sahib is a very good friend
of mine and we converse/meet at regular intervals. I wonder
how you know of him... I have certainly learnt a lot from him
bothe directly and indirectly for the last 10 yrs or so...
Anyway thanks for the post.
Regards,
Rajiv
In article <20000715121732...@ng-ck1.aol.com>,
--
===============================================
RAJIV CHAKRAVARTI
rc...@yahoo.com