Naseer Saheb Se Ek Sawaal

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

Mujhe aap se ek baat poochhni hai.......

Ek lafz hai "phare" or, perhaps, "phire".....

Is this somebody's name ?

Or

Does it have some other meaning in Punjabi language ?


****************


Around 70-72 years ago, a Punjabi language film with the
above name was made in Pakistani, i.e. within a couple of
years after Partition and creation of Pakistan.

My query is with regard to the above film.......

Thanks.....


Afzal

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

Sorry fo own follow-up.......

I think the probable answer is tha the word in question
is "pheray", as in "circumambulation".....

What does "kauRi phera" mean ? I think it is also a
Punjabi word.



Afzal

[Naseer]

muHtaram Afzal SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.

You probably have the film "Phere" in mind that was apparently the first Punjabi film made in the newly born state of Pakistan and released on Eid-ul-Fitr on July 28, 1949. I have n't seem it but have had a look at a Youtube video describing this film including its cast, background and story. The main characters are Swarn Lata, Nazeer Hussain, 'Allauddin and M. Isma'il. The songs are sung by Munawwar Sultana and Inayat Hussain Bhatti. I was wondering if Munawwar Sultana of this film is the same lady who starred against Dilip Kumar in the film "Naya Daur"?

Now coming to your questions. You have n't provided any context, so I will be guessing my answers. The first is the word "phere" which you have already deduced and it has the same meaning as the Urdu word "phere".

The second question is difficult. Do you have access to the context in which the sentence is written or uttered? I suspect the word is "kuRii" (laRkii) but juxtaposed with "phera", it does n't make sense. I am saying this if your question is still linked to Punjabi. However, if it is Urdu (kauRii-pheraa karnaa), then here is the definition provided by Urdu LuGhat.

کَوڑی پِھر جانا / پِھرنا
لوگوں کا کسی امر پر متفق ہوجانا ؛ ہر ایک کو باخبر کردینا، کسی فیصلے کی یکے بعد دیگرے سب کو خبر دینا، کسی گروہ کے سب آدمیوں کا خبردار ہونا

کَوڑی پھیرا کرنا
بات بات پر آمد و رفت کرنا، ادنیٰ ادنیٰ کام کے واسطے آنا جانا، بہت سے پھیرے کرنا، بہت زیادہ پھرنا، مفت تھکنا، ناحق دوڑنا

Naseer

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

Aap ke tafseeli jawaab ka bahut bahut shukriya......


****************


In the film "Naya Daur", the actress who appeared
opposite Dilip Kumar was Vyjayanthimala, not
Munawwar Sultana.

Munawwar Sultana had acted opposite Dilip Kumar in the
film "Babul", which is a 1950 film. It had music by
Maestro Syed Naushad Ali Saheb. I believe it was also
produced by him. Its Director was S. U. Sunny. Its
music had become very popular, particularly the
following song :

Milte hi aaNkheN dil huwa deewaana kisi ka

It is a piano song. As aficionados know, Naushad could
play various musical instruments quite well --- particularly
the piano.

In the above film, Dilip and Muawwar Sultana like each
other, but Nargis plays the spoilsport......


****************


The abovenamed Munawwar Sultana had married a diamond
merchant of Bombay. the latter had met me once and
offered to sell me a beautiful diamond necklace.
Unfortunately, I wasn't in a position to buy the same.
I remember he even offered me the option of paying the
cost in easy installments, which I politely declined.


****************


I don't know for sure, but, perhaps, there could have been
two separate ladies with the same name, i.e. Munawwar
Sultana. I vaguely recollect someone telling me in 1950
that Munawwar Sultana was a very fine singer. f you can
provide some info about the singer (including a YouTube
link), I would be obliged.....


****************



Coming to my other query .............

During the late fifties and sixties, there were a couple
of minor actors who, I believe, also dabbled in the field
of dance direction. They used to make a token appearance
in these dance-songs. While one of them would cry
"Bal Shera", the other would respond : "KauRi phera".

I am sure both these expressions are in the Punjabi language.



Afzal

[Naseer]

I don't know why I said "Naya Daur" when I meant to write "Babul". Also, I have found out that your Munawwar Sultana is different from ours!:-)

balle (balle) sheraa would be equivalent to "Hooray, (my) lion!" or something similar.
"kauRi", I think could be k_hoRii (ghoRii)....mare (especailly the white colored one used to seat grooms on)
"phera". This is a tough one. I could go for the obvious meaning of "pheraa" as in a "round" (as in A to B and back to A) or "phiraa" as in "ghumaa". .... k_hoRii phiraa = Turn (your) mare round.

There is a well known Pakistani Punjabi film called "Kirtar Singh" in which there is a song, sung by the sister of the groom, which has the words...

desaaN daa raajaa
mere baabal daa pyaaraa
amRii de dil daa sahaaraa
nii viir meraa k_hoRii chaRhiyaa
k_hoRii chaRhiyaa nii sayyo k_hoRii chaRhiyaa

desoN kaa raajaa
mere baabul kaa pyaaraa
maaN ke dil kaa sahaaraa
jii meraa bhaiyyaa ghoRii par savaar hu'aa
ghoRii par savaar hu'aa, sakhiyo ghoRii par savaar hu'aa

I don't know if I am on the right track or not.

Naseer

[Afzal A. Khan]

MuHibbee,

If you have any info about the "other" Munawwar Sultana,
please tell me something about her.......


Afzal

[Zoya]

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 12:03:20 PM UTC-5, Afzal A. Khan wrote:

> Coming to my other query .............
>
> During the late fifties and sixties, there were a couple
> of minor actors who, I believe, also dabbled in the field
> of dance direction. They used to make a token appearance
> in these dance-songs. While one of them would cry
> "Bal Shera", the other would respond : "KauRi phera".
>
> I am sure both these expressions are in the Punjabi language.
>
> Afzal

Afzal sahib,

Although you have addressed your original and follow up queries to a specific Alup member, I am taking the liberty to try to answer them. I am pretty sure you won't mind me doing so.

'kauddii' (please notice Not 'KauRii') is the Punjabi name of the game 'Kabaddi'. In Punjab, the players usually repeat "kaudii kauddi...." (an easier way of saying kabaddi kabaddi....) till they run out of breath. When the game was played informally under the less stringent rules, the weak players would just go touch the 15 foot mark and come back, it was termed "kaudi pheraa". My reliable source of confirming this information is my cousin's friend, who has actually played Kabaddi professionally in Punjab. Over time, this term has evolved in usage, and is also commonly used to indicate that a person is going repeatedly from one place to another, without any purpose. In typical Punjabi slang you may hear "tusiiN baar baar eh kii kauddii phere maarii jaane oN".

Another slang term that goes hand in hand: "addii Tappaa". This is a typical name for a hopscotch game that little girls play in Punjab by drawing lines on the ground and skipping around. I myself have played it in childhood. "addii Tappaa" is also commonly used to indicate some BhangRaa/gidhaa dance steps, where you basically do the same thing, skip around on your heels on the dance floor! 'addii' literally means 'heel'.

This leads us to one of my all time favorite Hindi songs, set to a foot tapping Punjabi tune and peppered with Punjabi terms discussed in this thread.This song is from movie "Pavitra paapi", which is based on a Punjabi novel of the same name by the respected Punjabi novelist Nanak Singh. My mom was a Nanak Singh fan and had this book in our home library. The movie stars both Balraj Sahni and his son Parikshit Sahni, who as you probably know went by the screen name Ajay Sahni in his early movies, but later switched to his given name.

I am posting a link to the song, I have absolutely loved it since my childhood. Lyrics and music by Prem Dhawan. Afzal sahib, I am sure you must have heard/seen this song before, and know that the lead dancer is Madhumati. Another titbit you may find interesting, Madhumati got married to the movie director Manohar Deepak who was originally from Faridkot and brother of a close friend of my mom! How his family had initially reacted to his marriage is another story.

Anyone who has not previously watched this video is in for a real treat. Personally, I can play it over and over again, it cheers up my soul. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DM3l1_PyZs

________Zoya

[Afzal A. Khan]

Z. S.

Mujhe pata naheeN tha ke aap is/us "specific ALUP member" se
is qadar naaraaz haiN ke un ka naam tak lena pasaNd naheeN
karteeN !!


****************


I have seen the film "Pavitra Paapi". That was quite some
years back.

A few tidbits for your information........

1. In Urdu newspapers of the time, advertisements of various
films being shown in Cinema Houses used to be published
regularly.

There were certain folks who knew only Urdu and were
totally unfamiliar with either hindi or English. These guys
would routinely pronounce the name of this film as "Potar
Paapi". Feeling absolutely at a loss regarding the
meaning of this title, they would ask me what it meant.
And then, I would have to explain it to them.

2. The young girl standing beside Parikshit Sahni is Tanuja.
But I am sure you know that.

3. I believe you have seen the actress Rekha in numerous
TV programmes/functions. She is always accompanied by
another lady, who sits by Rekha's side.

I think that lady's father was a small-time actor by the
name of Hammaad J'afri.

If you have seen the old Dev Anand starrer "Funtoosh",
you may perhaps remember another actor who is a poet,
aspiring for the hand of the heroine Sheela Ramani.
That role was played by Hammaad. I think he also played
a sort of cameo role in "Pavitra Paapi".

4. As regards the song you have mentioned, the actress Madhumati
was in fact a Parsi girl, by the name of Hitoxi (or Hitokshi)
Reporter. She did marry Manohar Deepak.

The latter also appeared in a film "Yeh Raat Phir Na Aayegi",
where, in a song, he is shown playing a guitar, wearing very
tight pants.

In that song and dance, Helen and Madhumati also appeared
alongside Manohar Deepak.

When that song occurred in the film, the entire crowd laughed
uproariously. I will not explain the reason, though. If you
watch that song, you will understand the reason immediately...

5. Your explanation of the Punjabi terms seems absolutely on the
dot.

6. Re : "Addi Tappa" : There was an old film, released in or
around 1949. Its title was "Ek Thi LaRki", stg. Motilal and
Meena Shorey. Both of them have passed on.

One song from that film became very popular. "Laara lappa,
laara lappa".

That song also contained the words "Aaddi Tappa".

7. Regarding the young girls playing a game, I think that sport
used to be played in other parts of India as well. Its name,
as far as I remember, was "AaTiya PaaTiya".

8. You have provided a YouTube link of a song from the film
"Pavitra Paapi". If you watch closely, you would observe two
guys dancing along (and around) Madhumati. These are the very
same guys that I had referred to in my earlier post.




Afzal

[Naseer]

On Monday, 22 March 2021 at 04:25:52 UTC, Afzal A. Khan wrote:

> 5. Your explanation of the Punjabi terms seems absolutely on the
> dot.

> Afzal
muHtaram Afzal SaaHib, aadaab.

I am pleased that you have got the answer you were looking for. I have indulged in "kauDDii" (kabaDDii) in my youth and have been a spectator of these matches in which adults took part on the occasion of "Besaakhii" on the 13th of April/1st of Besaakh. However, I have to confess that the word "pheraa" connected with kauDDii is not somehing that I am familiar with.

I thought I had read about "kabaDDii" in one of Prem Chand's short stories but was mistaken. It was in fact a short story called "gullii/gillii DaNDaa" (from Vaaridaat) which in my part of Punjab is called "iTTii-DaNDaa". I mention this short story because of the mention of the fielding side doing the "pidnaa" and the batting side doing the "pidaanaa". It would have been nice to incorporate these verbs in the game of cricket.

Naseer

[DTS]

I am in awe of the yaad-daasht of Afzal sahib, RK sahib, Naseer sahib, Zoya sahiba etc. Needless to say I thoroughly enjoy these posts.

Dinesh

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 10:25:52 PM UTC-6, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> On 3/21/2021 8:53 PM, Zoya wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 12:03:20 PM UTC-5, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> >
> >> Coming to my other query .............
> >>
> >> During the late fifties and sixties, there were a couple
> >> of minor actors who, I believe, also dabbled in the field
> >> of dance direction. They used to make a token appearance
> >> in these dance-songs. While one of them would cry
> >> "Bal Shera", the other would respond : "KauRi phera".

(snip)

>
>
> Afzal

[Irfan Abid]

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Thanks for mentioning kabaDDii. It refreshed so many memories of my childhood.

You will find it interesting, but after "keh do ik baar sajna" song, this is the second time that you mentioned a song/movie and I was already thinking about it. You post appeared yesterday, and I recorded this "Pavitra Papi" song just the day before: https://www.smule.com/recording/majboor-chala-teri-duniya-se-hoke/1216696826_3961834463

I watched the song you provided a link for. Had heard it before, but enjoyed it yet again. Not sure if you noticed a couple things in it besides those you have already mentioned. The girl to the left of Ajay/Parikshit Sahni when he walks in is Neetu Singh (Tanuja is to his right.) Also, there is a banner in Urdu on one of the shops in the background (it says "xyz dii haTTii.") I know it was a film set, but it says something about the place of Urdu in the life of Punjabis (in India.)

Sincerely,
Irfan :Abid:

[Afzal A. Khan]

Mukarramee,

"Bal~shera" ka matlab to aap ne hi pehle samjhaaya tha.
Is liye aap ka shukriya ada karna mera farz hai.


****************


Re : Gilli DaN'Da

I am sure all of us have read this particular story of
Munshi Prem Chand.

However, do excuse me for believing that the end of the
story was not quite satisfactory.

First, the village yokel sort of pretends that he doesn't
quite have the same ability any more that he had in his
childhood. And then, when a real "match" takes place,
he shows his real prowess, which is overpowering.

My point is : why make a pretense first, when you know
you are still as good as ever, or even better.

And the story doesn't reveal what the educated young
officer felt when he found that his old village friend
was still far superior to him......

What do our friends feel about this ?


Afzal

[Zoya]

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 11:25:52 PM UTC-5, Afzal A. Khan wrote:

> I have seen the film "Pavitra Paapi". That was quite some
> years back.

Afzal sahib,

aadaab,

>
> 1. In Urdu newspapers of the time, advertisements of various
> films being shown in Cinema Houses used to be published
> regularly.
>
> There were certain folks who knew only Urdu and were
> totally unfamiliar with either hindi or English. These guys
> would routinely pronounce the name of this film as "Potar
> Paapi".

I can relate to this in a way. I have personally stumbled on a couple of unfamiliar Arabic origin words written in Urdu script and wondered if the 'vao' represents an 'o' sound or a 'v' sound.

> 2. The young girl standing beside Parikshit Sahni is Tanuja.
> But I am sure you know that.

Yes. And as Irfan sahib has pointed out, the younger girl on his other side is Neetu Singh, who went by the name 'Baby Sonia' back then.

> 3. I believe you have seen the actress Rekha in numerous
> TV programmes/functions. She is always accompanied by
> another lady, who sits by Rekha's side.
>
> I think that lady's father was a small-time actor by the
> name of Hammaad J'afri.

I know exactly who you are referring to, Farzana, who has been Rekha's personal assistant/companion for a long time. However, I do not know anything about her father, even his name is unfamiliar to me.

> If you have seen the old Dev Anand starrer "Funtoosh",
> you may perhaps remember another actor who is a poet,
> aspiring for the hand of the heroine Sheela Ramani.
> That role was played by Hammaad. I think he also played
> a sort of cameo role in "Pavitra Paapi".

I have not seen 'Funtoosh'.

Are you talking about the actor who sings "Allah hi Allah kar pyaare bhaii" numerous times in 'Pavitra Paapi' as a faqiir? This song was quite popular on All India Radio, but I can't even recall the actor's face!

> 4. As regards the song you have mentioned, the actress Madhumati
> was in fact a Parsi girl, by the name of Hitoxi (or Hitokshi)
> Reporter. She did marry Manohar Deepak.

I had heard from my mom that Madhumati was from Bombay, but had no idea about her background or real name. BTW, Manohar Deepak already had a wife in Faridkot when he married Madhumati. I guess he is not the only Punjabi actor who's done that!

> The latter also appeared in a film "Yeh Raat Phir Na Aayegi",
> where, in a song, he is shown playing a guitar, wearing very
> tight pants.

I have not watched "yeh raat phir na aayegi" either. Will try to check it out.

> 5. Your explanation of the Punjabi terms seems absolutely on the
> dot.

Thank you Afzal sahib. :-)

To be totally sure, I confirmed with my dad, an aunt and a cousin before posting. :-)

> 6. Re : "Addi Tappa" : There was an old film, released in or
> around 1949. Its title was "Ek Thi LaRki", stg. Motilal and
> Meena Shorey.
>

> One song from that film became very popular. "Laara lappa,
> laara lappa".
>
> That song also contained the words "Aaddi Tappa".

Yes of course, this particular song is a true classic. Here both the terms are basically used in the same sense. Someone is noncommittal, skipping around, stringing you along.

> 7. Regarding the young girls playing a game, I think that sport
> used to be played in other parts of India as well. Its name,
> as far as I remember, was "AaTiya PaaTiya".

Interesting. Is this a Hindi/Urdu term? Never heard it before.

> 8. You have provided a YouTube link of a song from the film
> "Pavitra Paapi". If you watch closely, you would observe two
> guys dancing along (and around) Madhumati. These are the very
> same guys that I had referred to in my earlier post.

That is exactly what made me think of this song in the first place. Were the same two guys in 'Naya Daur' bhangraa song also? They do look sort of familiar. Pretty energetic dancers.

> Afzal

Thank you Afzal sahib, this has been a fun trip down the memory lane, you took me back to my childhood!

______Zoya

[Zoya]

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:20:56 AM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:

> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

> Thanks for mentioning kabaDDii. It refreshed so many memories of my childhood.

You and kabaDDii? Who could have guessed! Player or spectator?? :-)

> You will find it interesting, but after "keh do ik baar sajna" song, this is the second time that you mentioned a song/movie and I was already thinking about it.

Wow, it really happened again? Seems like my brain waves are somehow in musical sync with yours. The honor is all mine though, we know what league you are in.

You post appeared yesterday, and I recorded this "Pavitra Papi" song just the day before: https://www.smule.com/recording/majboor-chala-teri-duniya-se-hoke/1216696826_3961834463

I'll be darned. What a coincidence. Again. Now you may not believe this, when I started thinking about this movie the day before my post, for some reason the first song that came to my mind was "maiN bahut duur, bahut duur, bahut duur chalaa". And even before listening to your recording, or reading the title of the link above, I could have bet that you would pick this particular song! Wonder why I didn't visualize you singing "Allah hii Allah kar pyaare bhaai...". :)

Seriously though, you are so talented Irfan sahib, such a good singer along with being such a good poet. Have you ever composed and sung any of your own ghazals? If yes, please share with us.

> I watched the song you provided a link for. Had heard it before, but enjoyed it yet again.

Sure, it is such a fun song, and the dance is even more fun. Now maybe you should let me pick your next karaoke song. Why do I get this feeling that you can probably use a change of pace? :)

Not sure if you noticed a couple things in it besides those you have already mentioned. The girl to the left of Ajay/Parikshit Sahni when he walks in is Neetu Singh (Tanuja is to his right.)

Yes. The very young Neetu Singh plays the role of Tanuja's little sister in the movie.

Also, there is a banner in Urdu on one of the shops in the background (it says "xyz dii haTTii.") I know it was a film set, but it says something about the place of Urdu in the life of Punjabis (in India.)

I did notice that, and I also noticed that it was right next to the shop with this banner in Punjabi: "kaake de pataase" :-))

> Sincerely,
> Irfan :Abid:

Thank you Irfan sahib, it is always a pleasure to communicate with you.

______Zoya

[Afzal A. Khan]

Z. S.

Re : Film "Funtoosh"

It is a 1956 film, I think. You need not watch the entire
film. You can just search for one song from that film :

"Woh dekheN to un ki 'inaayat,
Na dekheN to rona kya"

It is sung on a lake where Dev Anand, heroine Sheela Ramani
and this guy Hammad Ja'afri are sitting. Dev Anand is plying
the oars. IIRC, Hammad J. is wearing a sherwaani, and is chewing
paan (betel leaf).

Unable to bear the taunts of Dev Anand in the above song, HJ
dives headlong into the water.

In the above film, K.N. Singh plays the father of Sheela Ramani.

There is one very likeable song in this film :

"Phul~geNdwa na maaro, Dar jaauN gi"

Music was provided by S.D. Burman. This song is sung by Asha
Bhosle, and is picturized on Sheela Ramani.

I don't know for sure, but I believe Sheela Ramani married a
Parsi guy from the central Indian town of Mhow, very near Indore.
She travelled to various places along with tAustralia along with
her husband, including a trip to Australia.

Ultimately, Sheela Ramani died in Indore, in 2015.

I think she had made her debut in the 1954 film
"Taxi Driver" where she had a few song numbers filmed on her.

1. "Jeene do aur jio, ChaRhti jawaani ke din haiN"
2. "Dil se mila ke dil pyaar keejiye"
3. "Ae miri zindagi, aaj raat jhoom le, aasmaaN ko choom le"

In the above film, she played a secondary role, the heroine being
Kalpana Kartik. Dev Anand had already married the latter earlier.

One song from the above film viz. "JaayeN to jaayeN kahaaN",
is sung twice --- once in the voice of Talat Mahmood. And
another time by Lata Mangeshkar, picturized on Kalpana Kartik.
Lyrics of the above film were penned by Sahir Ludhianvi.

The male version (by Talat Mahmood) was declared, I think,
as the best song of the year and, probably, fetched for S.D.B.
a Filmfare Award.


****************


Another song where the wording "Phul~geNdwa na maaro" occurs is
from the film "Dooj Ka ChaaNd' (1964) where comedian/actor Agha
is supposed to be singing it, in order to impress his lady love,
Jeevankala.

Actually, it is a record which is being played nearby (but hidden
from Jeevankala) on a gramophone, by the hero Bharat Bhooshan and a
very obese guy whose 'filmi' name was Polson.

"Polson" was, of course, the name of a popular brand of Butter.
Also, "Polson lagaana" had sort of become a phrase, meaning
"to flatter".

This actor (Polson) died pretty young --- his obesity might have
been a factor. BTW, I had seen him personally in some stage
programme.

Polson had an elder sister. I think her name was Indira Bansal.
She was born in Rawalpindi in 1932. I don't know if she is
still around.

You can watch her in a song from the 1956 film "Chori Chori, where
she plays the wife of comedian Johnny Walker and is the mother of
10/11 children.

All of them are shown in the song, marching in a single file, with
Johnny Walker at the head of the file and Indira Bansal
right at the end of the file --- their "filmi" children
are marching in between the two. The song is

"All line clear, aage baRHo, aage chalo,
Saath men hai ik tope ka gola,
Baat naheeN hai Dar ki..."

"Tope" here means cannon. "tope ka gola = cannon'ball".

The reference is to Indira Bansal.


****************


Also, "Funtoosh" is probably the first film where character actor
Jagdish Raj makes an appearance (in a very brief cameo role).
Sheela Ramani asks him : "Aap rasaala bhi la sakte haiN ?"
"Rasaala", of course, is pronounced wrongly --- the correct
pronunciation is "risaala", i.e. magazine.

"Rasaala" translates to "a cavalry unit" in army parlance.


****************

Jagdish Raj went on to play a lot of roles as a Police Officer.
I think he and another actor, IftiKHar, made this role their own
in innumerable films.

Sadly, both of them are no longer with us --- Jagdish
Raj, born in 1928 in Sargodha (which is now in Pakistan, and
probably an important air base), passed away in July 2013.
He was, of course, a Punjabi. I think his surname was Khurana.

His daughter Anita Raj started off as a heroine, but wasn't much
of a success. She is still active and one can see her in TV
serials. She is now pushing 60.

Iftikhar, born in Jalandhar in 1920, passed away in 1995.



****************


Re : Rekha

Rekha is the daughter of Gemini Ganesan, a South Indian actor
who also acted in a few hindi films, like "Miss Mary" (1957),
where he appeared opposite Meena Kumari.

He was believed to have had quite a few affairs in his lifetime.

His wife Savitri was a very popular and accomplished heroine from
the South. Her Tamil film "Konjum Salangai" was a runaway hit.
It featured a very popular song "Singaar Velane deva". Her co-star
was her husband, Gemini Ganesan.

Later, Savitri took to drugs, and passed away in 1981, at the
relatively young age of 45 years.

Gemini Ganesan had also formed a 'liaison' with the Telugu actress
Pushpavalli. It is believed that actress Rekha is their daughter.
Pushpavalli passd away in 1991.

Rekha has a younger sister by the name of Radha. I am not sure
but she probably became a doctor. Also, she married a Muslim
by the name of 'Usman Syed.



****************



Afzal

[Afzal A. Khan]

On 3/22/2021 10:34 PM, Zoya wrote:


>

> Also, there is a banner in Urdu on one of the shops in the background (it says "xyz dii haTTii.") I know it was a film set, but it says something about the place of Urdu in the life of Punjabis (in India.)

> ______Zoya
>


Maybe, it is "Mahashay di haTTi".


Afzal

[Naseer]

Munawar Sultana was born in Lahore 08/11/1924 and has the honour of being the fist lady to sing a Pakistani patriotic song (millii naGhmah) and in 1955 she sang Iqbal’s “lab pih aatii hai du3aa ban ke tamannaa merii. “

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDhciN6nlA&ab_channel=PakMilliNaghmay

She sang in both Punjabi and Urdu. One of her well known songs is a lolaby, “raaj dulaare merii akhiyyoN ke taare maiN to vaarii vaarii jaa’uuN” sung in 1956 for the film “Naukar”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrZa9DTaek8&ab_channel=aapindi

A Punjabi song from the film “Dulla Bhatti” also became very famous, “vaastah ii rab daa tuu jaa’iiN ve kabuutaraa”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGC_IxoaE1k&ab_channel=RAVINDERRAVI

Here is another short video of glimpses of her singing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7P8k1g7N5A&ab_channel=PakMilliNaghmay

A few bigrophical details from the net.

“Munawar Sultana was a film playback singer of Pakistan active in the 1950s. She started her career in the mid-1940s as a radio and film playback singer. She used to take music lessons from the renowned music director Ghulam Haider. After independence of Pakistan in 1947, Lahore film industry had to rebuild itself because most of the Hindu film studio owners decided to migrate to India and they left Lahore, Pakistan.Music Director Ghulam Ahmad Chishti, Munawar Sultana and Inayat Hussain Bhatti are mostly credited with bringing the dead music industry of Lahore back to life again. She also worked with music directors Rashid Attre, Safdar Hussain besides Ghulam Haider and Baba Chishti to produce many super-hit film songs in the 1950s. She continued to work at the Radio Station,Lahore and recorded many popular Punjabi folk songs there as well. Munawar Sultana was known for her melodious voice among the Pakistani public. In the late 1950s,she married the then Station Director of Radio Pakistan,Lahore-Ayub Roomani. Her marriage coupled with arrival of new playback singers-especially Zubaida Khanum and Naseem Begum ended her singing career.She started focusing more on her family life and kids. She died on 20 May 1995 in Lahore,Pakistan.”

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1207690/bio

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1207690/?ref_=nmbio_mbio

She has also sung in a film called "Memories" (Teri Yaad) in which Dilip Kumar's brother Nasir Khan is the hero along with the heroine, Asha Posley (who was also a playback singer).

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0212552/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm

Naseer

[Zoya]

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:38:10 PM UTC-5, Afzal A. Khan wrote:

> > Also, there is a banner in Urdu on one of the shops in the background (it says "xyz dii haTTii.") I know it was a film set, but it says something about the place of Urdu in the life of Punjabis (in India.)

> Maybe, it is "Mahashay di haTTi".

> Afzal

Afzal sahib,

Yes it is indeed "Mahashay di haTTi". I was actually going to mention this in my reply to Irfan sahib yesterday but got side tracked. I had earlier paused the video at that point just to confirm that I head read this correctly.

Now the related titbit: I am sure you must be already aware that MDH stands for 'Mahashay di haTTii'. The founder Mahashay Gulati ji, who recently passed away at age 97 from Covid complications, had migrated from West Punjab after partition. He started selling his family recipe Punjabi masaalas in a shack (haTTi). The rest is history, MDH corporation is an empire now and I am pretty sure most Indians have used some of their masaalas in their cooking at some point.

Oh and I don't think 'kaake de pataase' is a similar success story. :)

For the record, I grind my own garam masaala using my mom's recipe with 7 ingredients. We never marketed it though, I just give it as gifts to my American friends who like my cooking.

______Zoya

[Naseer]

muHtaram Afzal SaaHib, salaam 3arz hai.

There were at least three shops in my village during my childhood. The main one we called "Baalle dii haTTii" which would translate into Urdu as "Iqbal's shop".

Naseer

[Afzal A. Khan]

On 3/23/2021 3:26 AM, Naseer wrote:

> Munawar Sultana was born in Lahore 08/11/1924 and has the honour of being the fist lady to sing a Pakistani patriotic song (millii naGhmah) and in 1955 she sang Iqbal’s “lab pih aatii hai du3aa ban ke tamannaa merii. “
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDhciN6nlA&ab_channel=PakMilliNaghmay
>
> She sang in both Punjabi and Urdu. One of her well known songs is a lolaby, “raaj dulaare merii akhiyyoN ke taare maiN to vaarii vaarii jaa’uuN” sung in 1956 for the film “Naukar”.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrZa9DTaek8&ab_channel=aapindi
>
> A Punjabi song from the film “Dulla Bhatti” also became very famous, “vaastah ii rab daa tuu jaa’iiN ve kabuutaraa”
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGC_IxoaE1k&ab_channel=RAVINDERRAVI
>
> Here is another short video of glimpses of her singing
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7P8k1g7N5A&ab_channel=PakMilliNaghmay
>
> A few bigrophical details from the net.
>

> “Munawar Sultana was a film playback singer of Pakistan active in the 1950s. She started her career in the mid-1940s as a radio and film playback singer. She used to take music lessons from the renowned music director Ghulam Haider. After independence of Pakistan in 1947, Lahore film industry had to rebuild itself because most of the Hindu film studio owners decided to migrate to India and they left Lahore, Pakistan.Music Director Ghulam Ahmad Chishti, Munawar Sultana and Inayat Hussain Bhatti are mostly credited with bringing the dead music industry of Lahore back to life again.She also worked with music directors Rashid Attre,Safdar Hussain besides Ghulam Haider and Baba Chishti to produce many super-hit film songs in the 1950s. She continued to work at the Radio Station,Lahore and recorded many popular Punjabi folk songs there as well. Munawar Sultana was known for her melodious voice among the Pakistani public.In the late 1950s,she married the then Station Director of Radio Pakistan,Lahore-Ayub Roomani.Her marriage coupled with arrival of new playback singers-especially Zubaida Khanum and Naseem Begum ended her singing career.She started focusing more on her family life and kids. She died on 20 May 1995 in Lahore,Pakistan.”
>
> Naseer




MuHibbee,

Bahut bahut shukriya.

So, it is now confirmed that there was another Munawwar
Sultana, who was different from the one that had acted in
the film "Babul".


****************


I believe I had mentioned earlier that, for quite some time
after Partition, magazines from Pakistan were freely
available in India too. Also, radio programmes from Pakistan
could also be heard in India quite regularly.


****************


I recall that when the Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaab'zaada
Liaqat Ali Khan was assassinated in October 1951, I happened
to be in my native city in India --- and it too was in a state
of extreme sadness.

Everywhere, the radio broadcast from Radio Pakistan was being
heard intently. And everybody appeared to be in mourning.

It would seem that 'remnants' of the pre-Partition camaraderie,
that had existed between the two communities, were still
subsisting.....


****************


Amongst the Pakistani magazines that were freely available in
India after Partition, and right up to the early fifties, was
"Maah-e-Nau".

I don't remember exactly, but its editor at the time was Syed
Waqar 'Azeem.


****************


Barrister Sir Abdul Qaadir (Born 15th March 1872, Died 9th
February 1950) was a very prominent Muslim man of letters,
politician and jurist. He had been the editor of "Observer
(1898) and the famous Urdu Magazine "MaKHzan" thereafter.

My father was a subscriber of very many Urdu and English
Magazines and Newspapers in his time, and "MaKHzan" was one
of them.

Here, in the US, I do have some issues of "MaKHzan" with me....

And, maybe, I would post something from them in due course of
time.......


****************


IIRC, shortly before his death, Sir Abdul Qaadir had written
an article for the magazine "Maah-e-Nau", with the title
"SHikaNja".

The article can appropriately be called as an "In'shaaiya".

Written in a lighter vein, he had discussed the various
sort of 'pressures' one brings to bear on others for
specific purposes. One such was "ta'alluqaat ka
shikaNja".


****************



"Maah-e-Nau" magazine was available in India in the early
fifties at Re. 1/- per issue. {Indian currency}



****************



Similarly, the well-known Urdu magazine "BeesweeN Sadi"
(published from Delhi and edited by a hindu gentleman who
used "KHushtar Giraami" as his alias) used to be available
in Pakistan too.

The person who had been appointed as the agent and distributor
of this magazine in Pakistan was one KHizr Dehlvi --- surely,
another alias.

It is another matter, though, that KHizr Dehlvi would sell the
magazine in Pakistan and pocket the subscription amount himself,
without remitting it to the Owner/Editor KHushtar Giraami.

In issue after issue, KG would publish a cautionary page asking
Pakistani readers to exercise caution --- {"is ja'al~saaz-e-a'zam
se bacheN"}........

Coincidentally, KG himself was very very "stingy" in making
payments to writers who would send him their articles for
publication. I doubt very much if he paid them at all.

His excuse (if it can be called that) was that it was an honour
for these writers that their writings were being published in such
a 'venerable and esteemed' magazine !!

IIRC, KHushtar Giraami was quite a short person and always sported
a fur cap. As everybody knows, this type of cap had come to be
called as "the Jinnah Cap".

It is possible that, by using the above alias and wearing the fur
cap, he wanted to create an apparent impression that he was a
Muslim.....


****************


The Indian film-maker V. Shantaram also used to wear a white
Jinnah Cap.


****************


Even the late Indian Prime Minister Narsimha Rao would sport this
"Jinnah Cap" at the time of each general election --- his pictures
would appear in newspapers/magazines, and even on the TV, where
he would appear wearing this "Jinnah Cap".

What is more, he used to do a sort of "aadaab" with his right hand
touching his forehead. That was his way of courting the favour of
the Muslim community.

Of course, such deceptive and insincere practices cannot fool the
people for too long. And Narsimha Rao did get his comeuppance
ultimately..........


****************


In recent times, the Chief Minister of the Indian state of
Telengana, K. Chandrashekhar Rao, has adopted the same practice
of sporting a fur cap.......

It is another matter, though, that he seems to be quite sincere
and even-handed in his approach to the two major communities
in Telengana. The BJP is, of course, dead-set against him.

But he is very popular in the State and is likely to be its
helmsman for quite some years.....


****************


Coming back to the magazine "BeesweeN Sadi"........

Once, on a trip to Delhi, I had also visited the "office" of
this magazine. It was quite small and in a messy condition,
with papers etc. lying everywhere --- the atmosphere was quite
dark and murky.


****************


The point I was trying to make is that this "aadaan-pradaan"
of magazines published from the two countries was quite common
in those days. It is quite sad that this stopped after some
years.


****************


But, these days, it is quite easy to read various Urdu
magazines published in the two countries (and also elsewhere),
due to Internet facilities.



Afzal

[Zoya]

Friends,

When Afzal sahib initiated this thread by asking a fairly simple looking question, he probably had no idea what it will lead to! Along the way, we have come across many interesting side topics, e.g. Kabaddi, hopscotch, Bhangra, old movies, old movie songs, old (and not so old!) actors and actresses and their spouses/parents, Indian spices, Politicians' caps, literary magazines along with their editors/distributors, and best of all a song in Irfan Abid sahib's soulful voice!!

Such fun! :)

However, one thing we have not seen so far in this thread is any Urdu she'r.

Since we are on Alup, I felt that I should list the asha'ar which came to mind spontaneously while thinking about the Punjabi slang terms in this thread. Here we go:

1. kauddi pheraa:

huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se agaah
idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!

2. addii Tappaa:

tirii chaahat ke bhiige jangaloN meN
miraa tan mor ban ke naachtaa hai :)

3. laaraa lappaa:

ham aise saadah diloN ko voh dost ho k Khudaa
sabhii ne vaadaa-e-fardaa pe Taal rakhaa hai :(

Curious to see if these terms remind any of you also of some asha'ar.
RK sahib/Irfan sahib maybe you can even coin some??

________Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aap kaa hukm sar aaNkhoN par.

1. gaahe gaahe kii mulaaqaat hii achchhii hai "Ameer"
qadr kho detaa hai har roz kaa aanaa jaanaa (Ameer Minai)

2. tumhaarii raah meN chalne kii hai Khushii aisii
ki saath naqsh-e-qadam bhii uchhal uchhal ke chale (Riyaz Khairabadi)

3. yahii kah kar ajal ko qarz-KhvaahoN kii tarah Taalaa
ki le kar aaj qaasid yaar kaa paiGhaam aayegaa (Shad Azimabadi)

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:30:41 PM UTC-5, Irfan Abid wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 11:24:39 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > Friends,
> >
> > When Afzal sahib initiated this thread by asking a fairly simple looking question, he probably had no idea what it will lead to! Along the way, we have come across many interesting side topics, e.g. Kabaddi, hopscotch, Bhangra, old movies, old movie songs, old (and not so old!) actors and actresses and their spouses/parents, Indian spices, Politicians' caps, literary magazines along with their editors/distributors, and best of all a song in Irfan Abid sahib's soulful voice!!
> >
> > Such fun! :)
> >
> > However, one thing we have not seen so far in this thread is any Urdu she'r.
> >
> > Since we are on Alup, I felt that I should list the asha'ar which came to mind spontaneously while thinking about the Punjabi slang terms in this thread. Here we go:
> >
> > 1. kauddi pheraa:
> >
> > huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se agaah
> > idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!
> >
> > 2. addii Tappaa:
> >
> > tirii chaahat ke bhiige jangaloN meN
> > miraa tan mor ban ke naachtaa hai :)
> >
> > 3. laaraa lappaa:
> >
> > ham aise saadah diloN ko voh dost ho k Khudaa
> > sabhii ne vaadaa-e-fardaa pe Taal rakhaa hai :(
> >
> > Curious to see if these terms remind any of you also of some asha'ar.
> > RK sahib/Irfan sahib maybe you can even coin some??
> >
> > ________Zoya
> >
> Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

>
> aap kaa hukm sar aaNkhoN par.

yeh huii na baat Irfan sahib, bahut Khuub, kyaa 'on target' asha'ar pesh kiye haiN aap ne. shukriyah.

Now that we are on a roll, I am posting some more. First things first though, before Prof RK points it out, I better correct a typo in my previous post, #1 agaahi -> aagahi

1. kauddi pheraa:

> 1. gaahe gaahe kii mulaaqaat hii achchhii hai "Ameer"
> qadr kho detaa hai har roz kaa aanaa jaanaa (Ameer Minai)

Great advice, but I am still saying this:

gird suuraj ke zamiiN ghuumii bahut
us galii meN yaa mire chakkar lage! :)

2. addii Tappaa:

> 2. tumhaarii raah meN chalne kii hai Khushii aisii
> ki saath naqsh-e-qadam bhii uchhal uchhal ke chale (Riyaz Khairabadi)

Yes.
aaj kal paaoN zamiiN par nahiiN paRte mere
bolo dekhaa hai kabhii tum ne mujhe uRte hue?? :-)

3. laaraa lapaa:

> 3. yahii kah kar ajal ko qarz-KhvaahoN kii tarah Taalaa
> ki le kar aaj qaasid yaar kaa paiGhaam aayegaa (Shad Azimabadi)

Yes again.

tire va'ade par jiye ham to yeh jaan jhuuT jaanaa
k Khushii se mar na jaate agar ai'tbaar hotaa!

> niyaazmand,
> Irfan :Abid:

____Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 7:40:40 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:

> aadaab Irfan sahib,

>
> yeh huii na baat Irfan sahib, bahut Khuub, kyaa 'on target' asha'ar pesh kiye haiN aap ne. shukriyah.
>
> Now that we are on a roll, I am posting some more. First things first though, before Prof RK points it out, I better correct a typo in my previous post, #1 agaahi -> aagahi
>

***I didn't have to show up, ZS, had you corrected your error correctly!

The she'r in question

> > huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se agaah
> > idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!

doesn't contain agaahi (which you have wished to replace by aagahi); it contains agaah (which needs to be replaced by aagaah)!

baaqi sab Khairiyat hai! :-)

R.K.***

[Zoya]

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 4:56:28 PM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:

> ***I didn't have to show up, ZS, had you corrected your error correctly!
>
> The she'r in question
> > > huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se agaah
> > > idhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!
> doesn't contain agaahi (which you have wished to replace by aagahi); it contains agaah (which needs to be replaced by aagaah)!

Oh God!! Did I really?? Can't believe it. yeh mujhe kyaa ho rahaa hai RK sahib?
Where did the extra 'i' come from? Can't even blame it on spell check!

vaise aChhaa kiyaa aap ne mujhe is ghalati se 'aagah' kar diyaa. :)

> baaqi sab Khairiyat hai! :-)

shukr hai, yaani aap yeh keh rahe haiN k maiN ne aur koii typo nahiiN kii. :-))

> R.K.***

What would I do without you? salaamat rahiye.

________Zoya