[lafz] Word of the Day #34 - 'sifat'
Vivek
Date: 05-Apr-2000
Word of the Day: 'sifat'
Meaning:
sifat - 1) quality 2) like/similar to
Couplet:
vo ba.Daa rahiim-o-kariim hai mujhe ye sifat bhii ataa kare
tujhe bhuulane kii duaa karuu.N to duaa me.n merii asar na ho
[Bashir Badr]
[rahiim-o-kariim - kind & generous]
tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
[Wali Deccani]
[lab = lips; laal = ruby; Gazaalaa.N = deer; so = compare to]
[badaKhshaa.N = place in Afghanistan famous for its rubies]
-------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------
has...@my-deja.com
> tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> [Wali Deccani]
janaab Vivek sahab:
Adab 'arZ hai,
aapnay jo yeh sha'yr likhaa hai us mayN mujhay kuchh gaRbaR lagtii hai!
kyaa aap is sha'yr ko do-barah say check kar saktay haiN.
duusrii baat yeh hai ki aapnay lafZ-e-'laal' ka tarjumah 'ruby' say
kiyaa hai! sirf itnaa kehnay kii ijazat chaahuuNga agar aap buraa na
maanayN toe!
laal = red colour
la'al = gem (like la'al-o-gohar) with 'harf-e-'ain in the middle
Are you sure that the word 'badakHshaaN' is a geographical place in
AfgHaanistaan? To me it makes more sense with the word 'darakHshaaN'
meaning 'bright/illuminated'
Thirdly, the first word shouldn't be 'tujhe', it should rather
be 'tere'.
I think the sha'yr should read like this:
Sorry, got to go!
faqat khaaksaar,
Hashmat
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Vivek
khwateen-o-hazraat,
meiN pehle bhii arz kar chuka hooN, meiN sirf Nita ji ki lists ko FORWARD
kar ke ALUP par post kar raha hooN
PLEASE FORWARD/ADDRESS ALL QUERIES TO HER : urdu_...@hotmail.com
aapka,
-vivek.
~~~
"Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged
bird that cannot fly."
-Langston Hughes
~~~
gu...@tamu.edu http://ee.tamu.edu/~vivekgu/
has...@my-deja.com
> > tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > [Wali Deccani]
________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
I'm BACK! Sorry, I had to GO for a few minutes!
Anyhow, as I was saying that the sha'yr should READ like this:
teray lub kii sifat la'al-e-darakHshaaN!, so kahuuNga!
jaaduu haiN teray nayen-e-gHazaalaaN!, so kahuuNga!
The poet is APPRECIATING the physical beauty of the beloved! It's
customary in Urdu-Poetry that the shaa'yer COMPARES those ATTRIBUTES
with similar things that have already been ACCEPTED as the STANDARD!
Walii Deccanii farmaatay haiN kii terii kHuubsuurtii ba-Haq kyuuNki
teray laal-laal hoNTh (lub) jaisay laal la'al (red-gem=ruby) yaa jaisay
dahektay huye aNgaaraay aur terii chamaktii huii aaNkhayN hirnii
(gHazaalah) [hirnii (fem.)/hiran (mas.)/deer)] jaisii. nisvaanii
chehroN per yeh 'aZo-ain (two organs) aaNkh aur laboN ko chuuNki eik
kHaas kashiidgii kii ahmiiyat 'haaSil hai liHaazah shaa'yer haZraat
bhar puur faayedah uThaatay haiN. phir shaa'yer kehtaa hai kii
teray 'husn kii yeh SIFAT to maiN 'daNkay-kii-choaT' per kahuuNgaa!
I hope you will find this to be QUITE CONVINCING! However, I'm OPEN to
suggestions! I think that the RE-WRITTEN SHA"YR MAKES MORE SENSE!
faqat khaaksaar
Hashmat
Nita
has...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > > tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > [Wali Deccani]
> teray lub kii sifat la'al-e-darakHshaaN!, so kahuuNga!
> jaaduu haiN teray nayen-e-gHazaalaaN!, so kahuuNga!
>
> The poet is APPRECIATING the physical beauty of the beloved! It's
> customary in Urdu-Poetry that the shaa'yer COMPARES those ATTRIBUTES
> with similar things that have already been ACCEPTED as the STANDARD!
>
Hashmat Sahab, the sher is correct as it was posted. 'tujh',
'so', etc. are typical of the Deccani style of writing. Let
me also confirm that it is indeed badaKhshaa.N. The meaning
as given is taken from Aaina-e-Ghazal, plus K.C. Kanda's book
on ghazals. I admit K.C. Kanda sometimes gives erroneous
translations but two sources cannot both be incorrect.
As far as laal being written as la'al, that is true but the
transliteration scheme I follow does not allow for it so I
sometimes expend with it.
As far as your statement about a poet should always use standard,
meaning establihed metaphors for comparison, I must disagree. If
such was the case then poetry in any language would be much poorer
for it. New ways of comparing things, new things to compare with
are part of a poet's arsenal. If a poet only used what has been
said before, he would be restricting himself and his creativity.
In the first line, la'al-e-daraKhshaa.N does not make sense to me
at least. daraKhshaa.N means shining. How does that translate into
a standard metaphor? In fact, even as a new metaphor, it fails since
daraKhshaa.N is not usually associated with angaarey, the translation
you chose. The second line is again as quoted in my post.
> I hope you will find this to be QUITE CONVINCING! However, I'm OPEN to
> suggestions! I think that the RE-WRITTEN SHA"YR MAKES MORE SENSE!
I hope I have convinced YOU that the original sher is alright as it
is. :-)
Nita
--
Visit My Urdu Poetry Page:
http://www.urdupoetry.com
Join Mehfil-e-Gazal mailing list for daily ghazals:
http://www.egroups.com/group/urdu_poetry/
has...@my-deja.com
I'm back! Sorry, I had to go for a few minutes!
As I was saying that the sha'yr should READ like this:
teray lab kii sifat la'al-e-darakHshann!, so kahuuNga!
jaaduu haiN teray naayen-gHazaalaaN! so kahuuNgaa!
meaning:
the poet is appreciating the physical beauty of the beloved, especially
her eyes and lips. it is customary in urdu poetry to compare these
common fetishes with something similar which is an established fact. in
this case:
wali Deccanii kehtay haiN ki teray hoNT laal jaisay chamaktaa huaa laal
patther (gem=ruby) aur terii aaNkhayN hirnii [gHazaalah=hiran/hirnii
(fem.) or deer] jaisii (jo ki kHuubsuurat tasavvur kii jaatii haiN).
donoN 'aZo-ain (both organs) kay liiye shaa'yer kehtaa hai kii maiN
unkii ta'ariif mayN yeh to "daNkay-kii-choaT" per kahuuNgaa!
I hope you find it CONVINCING!
Anyhow, let me know how you feel or for that matter anyone else!
faqat khaaksaar,
Hashmat
________________________________________________________________________
> > tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > [Wali Deccani]
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> janaab Vivek sahab:
>
> Adab 'arZ hai,
>
> aapnay jo yeh sha'yr likhaa hai us mayN mujhay kuchh gaRbaR lagtii
2hai!
> kyaa aap is sha'yr ko do-barah say check kar saktay haiN.
>
> duusrii baat yeh hai ki aapnay lafZ-e-'laal' ka tarjumah 'ruby' say
> kiyaa hai! sirf itnaa kehnay kii ijazat chaahuuNga agar aap buraa na
> maanayN toe!
>
> laal = red colour
> la'al = gem (like la'al-o-gohar) with 'harf-e-'ain in the middle
>
> Are you sure that the word 'badakHshaaN' is a geographical place in
> AfgHaanistaan? To me it makes more sense with the word 'darakHshaaN'
> meaning 'bright/illuminated'
>
> Thirdly, the first word shouldn't be 'tujhe', it should rather
> be 'tere'.
>
> I think the sha'yr should read like this:
>
> Sorry, got to go!
>
> faqat khaaksaar,
>
> Hashmat
________________________________________________________________________
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <8cjo0o$hd4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Nita <nawat...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8cjba9$4a4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> has...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > > tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > > jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > > [Wali Deccani]
>
> > teray lub kii sifat la'al-e-darakHshaaN!, so kahuuNga!
> > jaaduu haiN teray nayen-e-gHazaalaaN!, so kahuuNga!
> >
Hashmat Sahib:
I am back.
bhai, aap ne Ayesha Sahiba ki ghazal ke to qareeb qareeb sabhi ash'aar
ke liye 'alternatives' tajveez farmaaye aur kaheeN kaheeN khaaksaar
ki 'islaah' ka qasd bhi kiya magar, huzoor, kam-az-kam esaatiza ko to
bakhsh deejiye! :-))
Wali Daccani ka jo she'r Vivek Sahib ne quote kiya hai, voh solah-aane
durust hai. aap us she'r meiN jo bhi tarmeem karna chaaheN, ba-sad-
shauq kareN, magar ba-khudaa use ghalat mat kaheN!!!
'tujh lab' [ba-ma'ani 'tere lab'] Braj-bhaasha ki tarkeeb hai, jise
Hindi vaale abhi bhi iste'maal karte haiN. agar 'tujh' ko 'tere' se
badal diya jaaye, to misra khaarij-az-baihr ho ke reh jaata hai!
aur yahaaN par 'BadakhshaaN' bhi durust hai; please don't replace it
by 'darakhshaaN'. haaN, agar laal ki ba-jaaye la'al likhkha jaaye to
behtar hoga!
The word 'so', meaning 'like', is also correct --- though the proper
pronounciation is 'soN'. I wish Nita (ji) agrees to make this little
change in her version.
Again, in the second misra, 'nain ghazaalaaN' is correct. Please don't
change it to 'nayen-e-ghazaalaaN'. First of all, no izaafat is intended
here. Secondly, even if an izaafat were intended, we DON'T do it among
words, one of which comes from Hindi and the other from Persian!
I may, however, place a comma after nain.
One final point. Meter-wise, the word 'tere' in the second misra better
be written as 'tire'.
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Nita
> The word 'so', meaning 'like', is also correct --- though the proper
> pronounciation is 'soN'. I wish Nita (ji) agrees to make this little
> change in her version.
I agree, Rajkumar sahab. I shall make the appropriate changes.
Nita
--
Visit My Urdu Poetry Page:
http://www.urdupoetry.com
Join Mehfil-e-Gazal mailing list for daily ghazals:
http://www.egroups.com/group/urdu_poetry/
A Cassam
Cheers!
Abida Sultana
Nita wrote:
>
> In article <8cjba9$4a4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> has...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > > tujh lab kii sifat laal-e-badaKhshaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > > jaduu hai.n tere nai.n Gazaalaa.N so kahuu.Ngaa
> > > > [Wali Deccani]
>
> > teray lub kii sifat la'al-e-darakHshaaN!, so kahuuNga!
> > jaaduu haiN teray nayen-e-gHazaalaaN!, so kahuuNga!
> >
has...@my-deja.com
> Hashmat Sahib:
>
> I am back.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raj sahab:
sab say pahlay toe maiN aapko 'aadaab' karuuNgaa phir
kahuuNgaa 'welcome back!' aapkay aanay kaa e'laan-e-'aam lagtaa hai
abhii sab tak nahiiN pahoNchaa!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> bhai, aap ne Ayesha Sahiba ki ghazal ke to qareeb qareeb sabhi ash'aar
> ke liye 'alternatives' tajveez farmaaye aur kaheeN kaheeN khaaksaar
> ki 'islaah' ka qasd bhi kiya magar, huzoor, kam-az-kam esaatiza ko to
> bakhsh deejiye! :-))
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bhai, yeh toe aap apnii "isaatezah" say puuchhiiye ki uNhoNay aapkii
gHair maujuudgii meiN apnii gHazal kyuuN POST kii aur kyuuN sabhii
say 'iSlaaH' kii darkHwaast kii! aur phir maiN nay to aapko kHiraaj-e-
'aqiidat pesh kartay huye apnii raaye kaa iZhaar kiyaa thaa aur yeh
bhii kHwaahish Zaahir kii thii ki thii kay aap apnay waapsii kay ba'ad
apnay isatezah aur MERAY iSlaaH kii bhii iSlaaH karayNgay magar afsos
ki aapko woh baat burii lagii. When somebody POSTS something then
he/she AUTOMATICALLY OPENS THE DOOR FOR DISCUSSION, for which this
FORUM HAS BEEN CREATED FOR! agar aapko personalize karnaa hai toe phir
e-mail kaa zarii'ah behter hogaa! aap ko kis nay rokaa hai aap bhii
maNZar-e-'aam per yaa maNzar-e-'aam say hat kar iSlaaH kar dayN!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wali Daccani ka jo she'r Vivek Sahib ne quote kiya hai, voh solah-aane
> durust hai. aap us she'r meiN jo bhi tarmeem karna chaaheN, ba-sad-
> shauq kareN, magar ba-khudaa use ghalat mat kaheN!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raj sahab aapkay daanist meiN to yeh baat hai hii ki URDU script say
HINDI script maiN kisii nay likhaa aur phir Hindi say ROMAN SCRIPT meiN
kisii aur nay likhaa, toe is taraH sha'yr kuchh kaa kuchh ho jaataa hai!
lagtaa hai aapnay merii POST gHaur say nahiiN paRhaa! maiN ne yeh
likhaa thaa ki Vivek sahab isko dobaarah say check kar leiN kahiiN
koyii bhuul-chuuk toe nahiiN ho gayii hai! uskay baad jitnii batayN
bhii maiN nay qalalam-baNd kiiN woh sab merii 'raaye aur discussion'
kaa Hissah thiiN. This is a 'DISCUSSION FORUM' aur isii vajeh say maiN
ne aakHir meiN yeh bhii likhaa ki "I'am open to SUGGESTIONS".
aapkay aur Nita kay jawaab say yeh lagtaa hai ki YOU GUYS ARE OUT TO
SCORE A POINT aur 'taNz' kii buu aatii hai. Abiidah sahebah nay ek aur
qadam aagay jaanaa munaasib samjhaa aur 'CHEERS!" kaa lafZ iste'maal
kiyaa! uNko yeh maluum honaa chaahiye kii yeh 'kushtii ka akhaaRaa'
nahiiN hai! yahaaN 'MUSCLE-POWER' nahiiN balki 'MIND-POWER' dakHal
zeyaadah hai! woh bhii kyaa kareiN yeh uNkay apnay 'urdu-feHmii' kaa
qusuur hai.
mujhay qata'yii yeh 'ilm nahiiN thaa ki yeh sha'yr Nita kaa FORWARD-
KARDAH thaa! agar pataa hotaa bhii to yeh shub~h toe hotaa KYUUnKi aap
achhii taraH say waaqif haiN ki:
NITA'S SITE IS RIDDLED WITH DISCREPANCIES, INCONSISTENCIES, MIS-
SPELLINGS, INCORRECT TRANSLATIONS TO WHICH NITA AND I AGREED TO FIX.
SHE LATER IMPOSED SO MANY RESTRICTIONS THAT I FELT I COULD NOT HELP HER
AND DECIDED TO OPT OUT!
There is a big problem with her spellings (hijjay). she does not or can
not differentiate between similar-sounding urdu Huruuf (between zay,
Zuad, 'Zoye; between kaaf and qaaf; between alif and 'aiN and so on and
so forth) AT TIMES, IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE:
LAFz-e-"sahii" and "SaHiiH", lafZ-e-"nazar" and "naZar" etc:
in one of her ash'aars she gave INCORRECT MEANING:
she wrote 'Zarf' to mean 'knowledge'! IT DOESN'T MEAN HAT! the correct
mening is 'utensil=capacity'. etc. kahaaNtak ginaayeN.
eik sha'yr arz hai jo Nita nay likhaa:
Jazbi sahab kaa ek sha'yr:
milay gHam say apnii fursat to sunaauuN woh fasaanah
ki Tapak paRay nazar say may-e-ishrat-e-shabaanaa
yahaN nazar MUST be spelled as 'naZar' and she translated 'may-e-ishrat-
e-shabanaa' as may=wine, ishrat=happiness and shabaanaa=night
aap toe saheb-e-'ilm haiN, aap hii bataayiiye ki ismayN kyaa gHalatii
hai?
maiN nay hamesha moaddebaanah aur mohazzebaanah lehjaa aur ravaiyah
akHteyaar kiyaa magar maiN afsos kay saath kehnaa chahuuNgaa ki mujhay
mayuusii huii!
kyaa vajeh hai ki:
woh chhiiNk bhii latay haiN to ho jaataa hai churchah
ham mar bhii jaatay haiN toe zikr nahiiN hotaa
AAP APNII ISAATEZAH SAY PUCHHIYEE KII MAIN NAY UNKO AAP SAY ISLAAH
LAYNAY KII SALAAH DII THII, AUR USKAA YEH SILAH!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 'tujh lab' [ba-ma'ani 'tere lab'] Braj-bhaasha ki tarkeeb hai, jise
> Hindi vaale abhi bhi iste'maal karte haiN. agar 'tujh' ko 'tere' se
> badal diya jaaye, to misra khaarij-az-baihr ho ke reh jaata hai!
>
> aur yahaaN par 'BadakhshaaN' bhi durust hai; please don't replace it
> by 'darakhshaaN'. haaN, agar laal ki ba-jaaye la'al likhkha jaaye to
> behtar hoga!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGAR AAPNAY KHUD URDU SCRIPT MEIN YEH SHA'YR PARHA HAI TO MUJHAY
BATAAYIIYEGAA AUR AGAR SUNII-SUNAAII BAAT KEH RAHAY HAIn TO MUJHAY IS
SAY ITTEFAAQ NAHIIn HAI.
MAIN HINDUSTAAN MEIN 27 SAAL REH KAR PALA-BArHAA HUUn WOH BHII HINDI-
SPEAKING AREA (up) MEIN, LEKIN MAIn NAY 'TUJH LAB' KAA ISTE'YMAAL
NAHIIN SUNAA.
I NOTE WITH REGRET THAT THERE IS A CULT-PERSONIFICATION ON THIS
DISCUSSION-GROUP. THEY JUST DON'T LIKE ANYONE ELSE TO BECOME PART OF
THE GROUP. THEY WANT TO KEEP THIS AN 'EXCLUSIVE' ZONE! AFSOS IS BAAT
KAA BHII HAI KI BA-JUZ CHANDAY-MA'ADUUDAY SAB HII URDU ZABAAN AUR USKII
BALAGHAT SAY BE-BEHRAA HAIn AUR SONAY-PEH-SOHAAGAA YEH KI WOH RAAY-E-
ZAANII KARTAY HAIN. AISAY SHU'AARAA BHII MAUJUUD HAIN JINKO 'HAI AUR
HAIn' KAA FARQ NAHIIn MA'ALOOM.
I know that I will be GRINDED for this POST, lekin yeh to mujhay kehnaa
hii thaa. dil-aazaarii maqsuud nahiiN. kuchh ALUPER zaroor kahayNgay ki
merii teHriir uNkay sar kay uuper se guzar gayee to maiN arz karuuNgaa:
goyam mushkil wa na goyam mushkil!
I will CONTINUE this discussion. I got to go now.
I WILL RESPOND TO NITA'S COMMENT SHORTLY.
I AGREE TO SOME EXTENT WITH IRFAAN WHOSE LACK OF RESPECT I STRONGLY
DENOUNCE! THIS FORUM
> The word 'so', meaning 'like', is also correct --- though the proper
> pronounciation is 'soN'. I wish Nita (ji) agrees to make this little
> change in her version.
>
> Again, in the second misra, 'nain ghazaalaaN' is correct. Please don't
> change it to 'nayen-e-ghazaalaaN'. First of all, no izaafat is
intended
> here. Secondly, even if an izaafat were intended, we DON'T do it among
> words, one of which comes from Hindi and the other from Persian!
> I may, however, place a comma after nain.
YEH AAP SE KIS NAY KEH DIYAA KI 'FARSII' AUR 'HINDI' say alfaZ-e-
murakkab nahiiN banaaye jaa saktay haiN. isii liye mulaaHezah
farmaayeiN maiN nay English aur urdu say eik murakkab lafZ baanaayaa
hai!
jaisay POST-kardah, fan-e-FUN-goyee
faqat
Hashmat
Nita
I will leave it to Rajkumar sahab to reply to the rest of Hashmat
saahab's post since the post is addressed to him. However, I would
like to say a few things in reply to what Mr. Hashmat has to say about
MY post and the website I maintain.
> aapkay aur Nita kay jawaab say yeh lagtaa hai ki YOU GUYS ARE OUT TO
> SCORE A POINT aur 'taNz' kii buu aatii hai. Abiidah sahebah nay ek aur
What point was I trying to score? Since I had posted the sher, I
replied to your post to inform you that YOUR comments about it being
incorrect were wrong? Wherever I have felt that you are right (e.g.
la'al instead of laal) I have agreed. What 'tanz' did you find in that?
It is true that ALUP is a discussion forum. However, that does not mean
that one can say or write whatever one feels like. One must base one's
discussion on relevant facts and details. As far as you are posting
your opinion, it is fine. But you post something like:
"Thirdly, the first word shouldn't be 'tujhe', it should rather
be 'tere'."
"I think that the RE-WRITTEN SHA"YR MAKES MORE SENSE!"
Is that a suggestion? Seems to me like you are finding fault with
the poet. Which is why Rajkumar sahab politely told you to leave
the old masters alone.
> kiyaa! uNko yeh maluum honaa chaahiye kii yeh 'kushtii ka akhaaRaa'
> nahiiN hai! yahaaN 'MUSCLE-POWER' nahiiN balki 'MIND-POWER' dakHal
> zeyaadah hai! woh bhii kyaa kareiN yeh uNkay apnay 'urdu-feHmii' kaa
> qusuur hai.
Your regards regarding Abidaji are completely unwarranted. If you
wish to have the right to say and write what you please, then so
does she. Commenting on her style of writing, in my opinion, is
extremely discourteous and against the spirit of ALUP.
> NITA'S SITE IS RIDDLED WITH DISCREPANCIES, INCONSISTENCIES, MIS-
> SPELLINGS, INCORRECT TRANSLATIONS TO WHICH NITA AND I AGREED TO FIX.
> SHE LATER IMPOSED SO MANY RESTRICTIONS THAT I FELT I COULD NOT HELP
HER
> AND DECIDED TO OPT OUT!
First of all, you did not have the courtesy to inform me of
your decision to opt out by sending me an e-mail.
Secondly, I KNOW there are inconsistencies at my site though not as
much as you would like to make it sound. I have always been open to
corrections. It is inevitable when the source is varied and is most
cases not verifiable. As and when people have pointed out errors to
me, I have corrected them.
As far as restrictions that I imposed are concerned, let me clarify.
I do not owe you, Hashmat saahab, an explanation but since you
have dragged this into a public forum, I shall answer to it here.
I use ITRANS transliteration scheme for writing the poems in Romanized
Urdu. Hashmat sahab wanted to start over with a new transliteration
scheme. With more than 1400 poems, I told him it was not feasible.
I know ITRANS is not the ideal for transliterating Urdu but I thought
it would be too much work to start all over again. Also, the creator
of ITRANS maintains a website where the poems from my archive can be
read in Hindi script. Changing my transliteration scheme would have
rendered his site useless. I did not see enough benefit in this to go
through with it.
These were my restrictions. Since it IS my website, I believe I do
have the right to have SOME say in what I want to do with it.
I also asked Hashmat sahab that if he wanted, he could go ahead and
create a mirror website in Urdu. But of course, it is easier to sit
and find fault rather than do anything constructive.
> LAFz-e-"sahii" and "SaHiiH", lafZ-e-"nazar" and "naZar" etc:
Like i said, it is a restriction of the transliteration scheme
I follow. However, the meaning is never in doubt.
> in one of her ash'aars she gave INCORRECT MEANING:
Out of 450 ghazals I have posted, you pick out one instance. I try
not to make errors but hey, I am human. I do correct in in subsequent
posts, if you ever care to read them. Of course, you didn't mention
THAT, did you?
> mening is 'utensil=capacity'. etc. kahaaNtak ginaayeN.
Ever heard of exceptions to the rule?? Besides, I have never
stopped you or anyone else from pointing out errors, have I?
So, why didn't you e-mail me about it instead of trying to
dirty the air here?
> eik sha'yr arz hai jo Nita nay likhaa:
>
> Jazbi sahab kaa ek sha'yr:
>
> milay gHam say apnii fursat to sunaauuN woh fasaanah
> ki Tapak paRay nazar say may-e-ishrat-e-shabaanaa
At least you could have posted the way it written on my website.
Don't say I have written it this way.
> woh chhiiNk bhii latay haiN to ho jaataa hai churchah
> ham mar bhii jaatay haiN toe zikr nahiiN hotaa
Your attempt at paraphrasing established poets is perhaps worse than
your attempt to correct them.
> MAIN HINDUSTAAN MEIN 27 SAAL REH KAR PALA-BArHAA HUUn WOH BHII HINDI-
> SPEAKING AREA (up) MEIN, LEKIN MAIn NAY 'TUJH LAB' KAA ISTE'YMAAL
> NAHIIN SUNAA.
It has nothing to do with living in India. This usage is quite common
in poems by Deccani poets.
> I NOTE WITH REGRET THAT THERE IS A CULT-PERSONIFICATION ON THIS
> DISCUSSION-GROUP. THEY JUST DON'T LIKE ANYONE ELSE TO BECOME PART OF
> THE GROUP. THEY WANT TO KEEP THIS AN 'EXCLUSIVE' ZONE! AFSOS IS BAAT
Considering that fact that most people on ALUP (at least the people who
post) are relative newcomers themselves, this is a laugh.
> I WILL RESPOND TO NITA'S COMMENT SHORTLY.
I would rather you didn't since I have had my fill. However, it is a
public forum. I certainly can't stop you.
> I AGREE TO SOME EXTENT WITH IRFAAN WHOSE LACK OF RESPECT I STRONGLY
> DENOUNCE! THIS FORUM
Which part of Irfan's tirade do you agree with? I would have thought
all right thinking people would be unanimous in condemning such posts.
> YEH AAP SE KIS NAY KEH DIYAA KI 'FARSII' AUR 'HINDI' say alfaZ-e-
> murakkab nahiiN banaaye jaa saktay haiN. isii liye mulaaHezah
> farmaayeiN maiN nay English aur urdu say eik murakkab lafZ baanaayaa
> hai!
One's man efforts at circumventing the strictures of a language
do not make it valid. If I start using English words in Urdu,
will that become acceptable as part of Urdu? I think not.
One last word. Argument for argument's sake, is not a very
constructive activity. I am sure everyone who read ALUP has
his or her opinion about EVERYTHING that is posted. However,
that does not mean we all rush in to register our opinions.
You have the right to write whatever you want but since this
IS a public forum, I think everyone would benefit from
relevant posts instead of attempts to show off one's
knowledge (or the lack thereof). Discussion and constructive
criticism are necessary for progress but let's not waste
ours and everyone's else time by posting things which one
knows nothing about.
Nita
--
Visit My Urdu Poetry Page:
http://www.urdupoetry.com
Join Mehfil-e-Gazal mailing list for daily ghazals:
http://www.egroups.com/group/urdu_poetry/
has...@my-deja.com
adab,
You are RIGHT I'm NOT going to RESPOND to your earlier POST and WASTE
MY TIME, BUT:
I will DIG OUT POEM, AT RANDOM, from your SITE and post ONE-POEM-A-DAY
on 'ALUP' WITH CORRECTIONS, offcourse, to SHOW YOU THE FREQUENCY AND
GRAVITY OF ERRORS. This WILL BE A SERVICE TO URDU!
Sit back, relax and ENJOY the CORRECTED VERSION!
By the way, you did not ELABORATE on 'may-e-ishrat-shabana', OR YOU
DON'T KNOW!
I SAY IT AGAIN:
IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND URDU POETRY TO THE FULLEST, WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF
PERSIAN AND ARABIC IS A 'MUST'! YOU CAN'T GET AROUND WITHOUT IT!
I WONDER HOW MANY 'ALUP'ers HAVE THAT CAPABILITY!
faqat,
Hashmat
Vivek
Just as a matter of remark:
Most ALUPers have the capability to do/achieve anything they want. Not
having a "working knowledge of Persian and Arabic" (and Urdu in my
case) is a matter of chance.
And a request:
PLEASE do not let your tempers go off the hook so easily. Not only does it
become a public nuisance, it is bad for you too.
ALUP is a discussion forum but PLEASE this is NOT a place to vent your
anger/frustration/whatever. Sharing your hatred(I guess that is too strong
a word but ...) of others is not what ALUP is meant for.
On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 has...@my-deja.com wrote:
:-)Nita sahebah:
:-)
:-)adab,
:-)
:-)You are RIGHT I'm NOT going to RESPOND to your earlier POST and WASTE
:-)MY TIME, BUT:
:-)
:-)I will DIG OUT POEM, AT RANDOM, from your SITE and post ONE-POEM-A-DAY
:-)on 'ALUP' WITH CORRECTIONS, offcourse, to SHOW YOU THE FREQUENCY AND
:-)GRAVITY OF ERRORS. This WILL BE A SERVICE TO URDU!
:-)
:-)Sit back, relax and ENJOY the CORRECTED VERSION!
:-)
:-)By the way, you did not ELABORATE on 'may-e-ishrat-shabana', OR YOU
:-)DON'T KNOW!
:-)
:-)I SAY IT AGAIN:
:-)
:-)IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND URDU POETRY TO THE FULLEST, WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF
:-)PERSIAN AND ARABIC IS A 'MUST'! YOU CAN'T GET AROUND WITHOUT IT!
:-)
:-)I WONDER HOW MANY 'ALUP'ers HAVE THAT CAPABILITY!
:-)
:-)faqat,
:-)
:-)Hashmat
:-)
:-)
:-)Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
:-)Before you buy.
:-)
A Cassam
Abiidah sahebah nay ek aur
> qadam aagay jaanaa munaasib samjhaa aur 'CHEERS!" kaa lafZ iste'maal
> kiyaa! uNko yeh maluum honaa chaahiye kii yeh 'kushtii ka akhaaRaa'
> nahiiN hai! yahaaN 'MUSCLE-POWER' nahiiN balki 'MIND-POWER' dakHal
> zeyaadah hai! woh bhii kyaa kareiN yeh uNkay apnay 'urdu-feHmii' kaa
> qusuur hai.
Hashmat Sahib,
ham ne closing salutation "CHEERS" ka iste'maal ALUP ko 'kushtii ka
akhaaRaa samajh kar naheeN kiya tha.
'Cheers' to ham ne dostaana andaaz meiN kahaa tha, not at all to be
'vindictive'. Not even to mean 'applaud'!!
Just a friendly 'CHEERS" as in 'being cheerful'!!
'cheers' kehte huay jab kisi ko 'toast' kiya jaata hai to kya 'kushtii
ka akhaaRaa' visualize kiya jaata . Europe meiN kaheeN kaheeN
'dukaandaar' in reply to Thanks, 'CHEERS' hi kehte haiN.
Why do you have a problem with the letter closing "CHEERS"??
Besides we all do have the right to choose our very own preferences when
we write.
BTW 'urdu-feHm' in your very sarcastic tone does mean 'Urdu jaahil'
does it not?
AKIKL ham ne kabhi bhi 'Urdu literate' hone ka daa'waa naheeN kiya tha.
Your attack on Nita too was totally 'uncalled' for.
Nita is maintaining an excellent, well organized, THE best Urdu web
site. Her dedication to Urdu is incredible.
We all appreciate her service to Urdu . Thanks once again Nita.
Cheers!
Abida Sultana
Nita
The etiquittes of discussion on the Intenet demand that
you use conventional writing styles when posting. Using
all Caps is equivalent to shouting. And as everyone knows,
raising one's voice does not increase the validity of
one's statements.
> I will DIG OUT POEM, AT RANDOM, from your SITE and post ONE-POEM-A-DAY
> on 'ALUP' WITH CORRECTIONS, offcourse, to SHOW YOU THE FREQUENCY AND
> GRAVITY OF ERRORS. This WILL BE A SERVICE TO URDU!
You call *that* a service to URdu???!!! I am sorry to see you
have decided to waste your time in such a manner. It would have
much more beneficial, not to say a real service to Urdu, if
you had decided to do the same by working with me. This is
exactly what I had in mind when I has accepted your offer of
help. But I guess you need to draw public attention to your
*superior* knowledge of Urdu. You need to let everyone what
a big ustad you are. Fine with me.
I wonder what it is that provoked such a response from you -
Rajkumar sahab's popularity and his position as teacher/guide
on ALUP and/or the fact that people do refer to my website
from time to time. Frankly, all this smacks of a heightened
sense of inferiority complex to me.
> By the way, you did not ELABORATE on 'may-e-ishrat-shabana', OR YOU
> DON'T KNOW!
I thought you had addressed that part to Rajkumar sahab :-)
In any case, I *will not* defend myself to you since I owe
you nothing.
> IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND URDU POETRY TO THE FULLEST, WORKING KNOWLEDGE
OF
> PERSIAN AND ARABIC IS A 'MUST'! YOU CAN'T GET AROUND WITHOUT IT!
>
> I WONDER HOW MANY 'ALUP'ers HAVE THAT CAPABILITY!
Another of your inane statements. If that was true, then 90% of
ghazal lovers should be banned from hearing or discussing Urdu
poetry. I guess now we know where and why you agree with Irfan.
As far as I am concerned, this is my last say on this distateful
matter. ALUP is much poorer for such discussion and I am sorry to have
brought it this far.
Anshu
If you want to really serve Urdu and truly feel that Nita's site is not
good, go ahead and
make a new one which has correct meanings, and correct transliterations and
extensive
explanations from Arabic and Persian.
So far Nita's site is the absolute best on the web. It is the largest, and
best organized
site out there. She puts in a lot of effort into it and her work is
remarkable. Unless you
do something which is better than hers, your criticism about odd mistakes
and omissions
sound very petty and very pointless. It is her site and is very good.
Another Aluper without knowledge of Arabic and Persian
Anshuman
<has...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8co2m1$3tf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Nita sahebah:
>
> adab,
>
> You are RIGHT I'm NOT going to RESPOND to your earlier POST and WASTE
> MY TIME, BUT:
>
> I will DIG OUT POEM, AT RANDOM, from your SITE and post ONE-POEM-A-DAY
> on 'ALUP' WITH CORRECTIONS, offcourse, to SHOW YOU THE FREQUENCY AND
> GRAVITY OF ERRORS. This WILL BE A SERVICE TO URDU!
>
> Sit back, relax and ENJOY the CORRECTED VERSION!
>
> By the way, you did not ELABORATE on 'may-e-ishrat-shabana', OR YOU
> DON'T KNOW!
>
> I SAY IT AGAIN:
>
> IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND URDU POETRY TO THE FULLEST, WORKING KNOWLEDGE OF
> PERSIAN AND ARABIC IS A 'MUST'! YOU CAN'T GET AROUND WITHOUT IT!
>
> I WONDER HOW MANY 'ALUP'ers HAVE THAT CAPABILITY!
>
> faqat,
>
> Hashmat
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <8cnjn0$k7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
has...@my-deja.com wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > bhai, aap ne Ayesha Sahiba ki ghazal ke to qareeb qareeb sabhi
> > ash'aar
> > ke liye 'alternatives' tajveez farmaaye aur kaheeN kaheeN khaaksaar
> > ki 'islaah' ka qasd bhi kiya magar, huzoor, kam-az-kam esaatiza ko
> > to
> > bakhsh deejiye! :-))
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> bhai, yeh toe aap apnii "isaatezah" say puuchhiiye ki uNhoNay aapkii
> gHair maujuudgii meiN apnii gHazal kyuuN POST kii aur kyuuN sabhii
> say 'iSlaaH' kii darkHwaast kii!
Hashmat Sahib:
aap 'esaatiza' ka matlab 'pupils' le rahe haiN, jabke is ka saheeh
matlab 'gurus' hai! 'esaatiza' ustaadoN ko kehte hain, na ke shaagirdoN
ko! meri muraad yeh thi ke "aap ham jaisoN ki islaah bhale hi kareN
magar, kam-az-kam, Wali Daccani jaise ustaad ko to chhoR deN".
> aap ko kis nay rokaa hai, aap bhii
> maNZar-e-'aam per yaa maNzar-e-'aam say hat kar iSlaaH kar dayN!
aap saheeh farmaate haiN aur maiN ne aisa hi kiya hai. Ayesha Sahiba ki
ghazal par, apne ta'assuraat doosri laRi, ba-unvaan "ek ghazal", meiN
pesh kar diye haiN. shaa'id aap ne bhi dekhe hoN ge. agarche meri
aa'raa aap ki aa'raa se bahut mukhtalif haiN, is ka matlab yeh naheeN
ke hameN un ka taqaabuli mutaal'a karna hai. I'll let Ayesha be the
judge. She can accept whatever appeals to her mind and discard the rest!
> NITA'S SITE IS RIDDLED WITH DISCREPANCIES, INCONSISTENCIES, MIS-
> SPELLINGS, INCORRECT TRANSLATIONS TO WHICH NITA AND I AGREED TO FIX.
> SHE LATER IMPOSED SO MANY RESTRICTIONS THAT I FELT I COULD NOT HELP
> HER
> AND DECIDED TO OPT OUT!
maujoodah zimn meiN, maiN itna zaroor kahooN ga ke aap ki "laRaa'i"
Nita se naheeN honi chaahiye, Wali Daccani se honi chaahiye jinhoN ne
aisa she'r kahaa! ab aap ka ye kehna ke "maiN har roz, yake-ba'ad-
deegare, Nita ki website se ghazaleN nikaal kar un ki ghalatiyaaN nashr
karooN ga" koi achhchhi baat naheeN hai ----
voh is liye, ke agar aap Nita par musalsal keechaR uchhaaleN ge to,
huzoor, usi keechaR ke kayee chheeNTe khud aap par bhi aa paReN ge. is
liye, meri haqeer raaye meiN, aap aisa karne se par'hez kareN.
> maiN nay hamesha moaddebaanah aur mohazzebaanah lehjaa aur ravaiyah
> akHteyaar kiyaa magar maiN afsos kay saath kehnaa chahuuNgaa ki mujhay
> mayuusii huii!
aap, maayoosi ke baa-vujood, usi ravish pe qaa'im rahiye jo ravish aap
ne ganga-jamani tehzeeb se seekhi hai. us ravish se haTna, na aap ko
achhchha lage ga na auroN ko!
> AGAR AAPNAY KHUD URDU SCRIPT MEIN YEH SHA'YR PARHA HAI TO MUJHAY
> BATAAYIIYEGAA AUR AGAR SUNII-SUNAAII BAAT KEH RAHAY HAIn TO MUJHAY IS
> SAY ITTEFAAQ NAHIIn HAI.
maiN ne yeh she'r Dilli meiN, 1954-1964 ke vaqfe meiN, kisi dost se
sunaa tha. mujhe to is meiN koi kharaabi nazar naheeN aayee thi, balke
she'r achhchha lagaa tha aur jald hi mere 'haafize ki jheel' meiN dhaNs
gayaa!
ALUP-parivaar meiN, mujhe Sanaa Sahiba par khaas bharosa hai ke voh
beshtar achhchhe ash'aar se aagaah hi naheeN balke unheN yaad bhi
rakhti haiN. maiN ne kal hi un se check kiya to unhoN ne fauran tasdeeq
ki ke voh is she'r se bkhoobi vaaqif haiN aur she'r jaise yahaaN par
quote hua tha durust tha.
ab aap kaheN ge ke Sanaa Sahiba kaun si 'authority' haiN is zimn meiN?
maan liya ke voh 'authority' naheeN haiN --- but I, for one, do feel
better after checking with her.
I wish someone had the original of Wali to check this matter for sure
but, so far, I personally have no reason to doubt its accuracy.
> MAIN HINDUSTAAN MEIN 27 SAAL REH KAR PALA-BArHAA HUUn WOH BHII HINDI-
> SPEAKING AREA (up) MEIN, LEKIN MAIn NAY 'TUJH LAB' KAA ISTE'YMAAL
> NAHIIN SUNAA.
'tujh lab' na sahi, 'tujh bin' to sunaa hoga aap ne!
There is a famous line in a Hindi song --- "tujh bin rahaa na jaaye"!
ab, dekhiye, Urdu vaale 'tere baghair' kaheN ge --- 'tujh baghair'
naheeN kaheN ge. magar Hindi vaale 'tere binaaN' bhi kehte haiN
aur 'tujh bin' bhi kehte haiN.
So, I can easily imagine old masters like Khusrau or Wali using the
phrase 'tujh bin'. The same goes for 'tujh lab'.
Moreover, as I have said before, replacing 'tujh lab' by 'tere lab' in
Wali's she'r throws the misra out of meter!
> I know that I will be GRINDED for this POST, lekin yeh to mujhay
> kehnaa
> hii thaa. dil-aazaarii maqsuud nahiiN. kuchh ALUPER zaroor kahayNgay
> ki
> merii teHriir uNkay sar kay uuper se guzar gayee to maiN arz
> karuuNgaa:
>
> goyam mushkil wa na goyam mushkil!
Now, here we go, Hashmat Sahib! mu'aaf keejiye,
"khud aap apne daam meiN sayyaad aa gayaa! :-))
aap to Nita ki "piTaa'ii" karne par aamaadah the [I said 'the',
not 'haiN', because I hope I have pursuaded you not to follow that
route) --- magar us se peshtar yeh bataaiye ke mandarjaa-baala quote,
jo aap ne Ghaalib se liya hai, kahaaN tak durust hai?
aap ka kehna hai ke
goyam mushkil wa na goyam mushkil
huzoor, is misre meiN se aek lafz chhuTaa hua hai!
I know it beause I have read it so many times in articles on Ghaalib.
Not only that, some time ago I heard Professor Gopi Chand Narang
speaking on Ghaalib somewhere in Toronto. He used this misra repeatedly
in his lecture to highlight the problems Ghaalib faced in getting his
creative expression across to others ---- precisely the feeling you
have experienced lately. But the misra was not as you have written; it
had one more word that you have dropped somewhere!
This shows how vulnerable we all are. If nothing else, at least this
failing on your part should convince you to avoid confrontation with
others and continue to stay friendly with everyone as you have
definitely been so far.
> YEH AAP SE KIS NAY KEH DIYAA KI 'FARSII' AUR 'HINDI' say alfaZ-e-
> murakkab nahiiN banaaye jaa saktay haiN.
yeh baat is qadar musallima hai ke is par behs karne ki zaroorat hi
naheeN. misaal ke taur par, aap aab-e-khunak to keh sakte hain, magar
aab-e-ThaNDa naheeN keh sakte!
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
san...@my-deja.com
shayad ke tere dil maiN utar jae meri baat "
aadaab every one
and Hashmat sahab
first of all , I can guarantee you that , in URDU ,
this shair is the way it was originally written ,
100% correct , and it is written in many books as a
reference , as well as in Urdu Lughat, etc. If you
have a lot of time (which seems to be the case) ,
then please take
time to research on it before speaking this way to
ANY member of this group .
"har aik baat pe kehte ho tum ke tu kiya hai
tum hi kaho ke yeh andaz e guftagoo kiya hai "
Second , Nita has put in a lot of time , money,
energy and love in building her site .
She has done a remarkable job .
If you think her site is not according to your likeness or is not
appropriate , or if you believe she does not have
her "hijjay" correct , why don't you do us all a
favor and make a site in " URDU " to prove YOUR
love and dedication to URDU.
In the mean time , please mind your language and
your attitude.
If you had promised her to help her correcting some misspelling ,you
should have stuck to your promise , or should have given her the
courtesy to apologize to her,for not keeping your promise and asking
for her permission before you make anything public.Please dont use
these mean tricks on any one , it is disrespectful and discourteous .
Nita is sarapa sachchai , she kind of reminds me of this shair
" mujh ko kiya ilm raya ke fan ka
mujh se seekho to mohabbat seekho "
aap ne Nita ki taraf ungli uthaa ke na sirf uss ki balke ham sab ki bhi
toheen ki hai aur sab iss baat se aagah ho gae haiN ke aap khud kitne
pani maiN haiN .
may be, some of us don't know how to write or read
urdu but we all know much more than you seem to
think. And,furthermore , what is more important, we know HOW to
communicate with one another in the
group , a quality you sadly lack!
"naseehat be asar hai ,gar na ho dard
yeh gur naseh ko samjhana paRe gaa "
abida ji ne agar " cheers " likhkhaa thaa, to koi
" maro dhobi paTRaa " to nahiN likh diya thaa.
I think you have no clue what" cheers " stands for ,
and you have made it known to everyone .
Nita HAS to work with her fonts or "shairi ke
laakhoN divane" us khushbooo se mehroom ho jaeN ge
jo,'urdu shairi' kelaati hai aur yehi mehekti khushboo
us ki site ki shakl maiN , net se hamare
saansoN ki gehraaiyoN maiN utar kar hamari rooh ko
sarshaar karti hai .
so if you can do ta'ameeri tanqeed , well and good
but if you want to do " takhreebi tanqeed " only
then
please keep
your comments to yourself.
aap ke sudharne ki duaa go
Sana
In article <8co2m1$3tf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
has...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Nita sahebah:
>
> adab,
>
> You are RIGHT I'm NOT going to RESPOND to your earlier POST and WASTE
> MY TIME, BUT:
>
> I will DIG OUT POEM, AT RANDOM, from your SITE and post ONE-POEM-A-DAY
> on 'ALUP' WITH CORRECTIONS, offcourse, to SHOW YOU THE FREQUENCY AND
> GRAVITY OF ERRORS. This WILL BE A SERVICE TO URDU!
>
> Sit back, relax and ENJOY the CORRECTED VERSION!
>
> By the way, you did not ELABORATE on 'may-e-ishrat-shabana', OR YOU
> DON'T KNOW!
>
> I SAY IT AGAIN:
>
> IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND URDU POETRY TO THE FULLEST, WORKING KNOWLEDGE
OF
> PERSIAN AND ARABIC IS A 'MUST'! YOU CAN'T GET AROUND WITHOUT IT!
>
> I WONDER HOW MANY 'ALUP'ers HAVE THAT CAPABILITY!
>
> faqat,
>
> Hashmat
>
has...@my-deja.com
maiN nay sochaa kisi aur ko inferaadii jawaab duuN na duuN, aapko toe
jawaab-e-barjastah detaa hii chaluuN:
dekhiiye chaahay aap muta'addid hazaar ash'aar hii kyuuN na yaad kar
lay Ghalib kay yaa Mir kay yaa digar ustaadoN kay, is say na to aapkii
sha'yr~fehmii mayN aur na hii aapkii sha'yr-goyii kay ma'yaar mayN
iZaafah hogaa. agar aisaa hotaa to tota totaa na hotaa balki kuchh aur
hotaa! (aadaab 'arz hai! maiN uuper 'aadaab' likhnaa bhuul gayaa thaa.
chaliye "der aayad durust aayad!)
'Mehfil-e-gHazal' kay web-ustaad aapkay piir~o~murshid ho saktay haiN,
mere hargiz nahiiN. aap aisaa kyuuN nahiiN kartiiN ki uNsay 'bait'
(bay, ye, tay) kar layN. us duniiyaa kii toe koyii 'guarantee' nahiiN
hai magar haaN yeh aapkii duniiya-e-mut'laq [(ba-muraad-e-duniiyaa-e-
zauq~o~shauq-e-sha'yr~o~shaa'yerii. translation available ON REQUEST)]
toe Zaruur saNwar jaayegii!
Ghalib kay eik sha'yr kii tashriiH~o~tauZeeH kii baat chal rahii hai,
aap say guzaarish bhii kii gayii hai, kyuuN nahiiN "'taba'a-aazmayii"
kartiiN taki hamayN bhii toe pata chalay ki:
zor kitnaa giraftan-e-qalam mayN hai
(apnay piir~o~murshiid) say iskaa tarjumah karvaa lijiiyegaa taki
digar 'ALUP'ers kaa bhalaa ho jaaye! kyuuNki:
mehNdi lagay haath ko aarsii kyaa
aur paRhay likhay ko Farsii kyaa!
meraa va'dah hai kii maiN aapkii us tashriiH~o~taZeeH per
koyii "tippaNRii" nahiiN karuuNgaa, OR WILL I?
e-mail kay 'Zarii'ye apnay piir~o~murshid say yeh puuchh lijiiyegaa
ki "urdu kay rasiiyaa" honay kay da'vay kay ba-vajuud,
WOH (NITA) EK SA'tAR URDU MAYn MAYn KYUUn NAHIIn LIKHTIIn, kyaa is baat
kaa Dar hai ki:
bharam khul jaaye Zaalim terii qaamat kii daraazii kaa
agar is 'turrah-e-pur-pech~o~kHam kaa pech~o~kHam niklay
eik merii bhii naSiiHat sun lijiiye:
JAB BArAY BOLTAY HAIn TO BACHHAY KhAAMOSH RAHAA KARTAY HAIn.
kyaa itnaa bhii nahiiN sikhaayaa gayaa aapko?
faqat paRhnay~waalaa aur likhnay~waalaa
Hashmat
P.S.
aapko apnay chachaa Ghalib kaa woh sha'yr to azbar hogaa hii jo maiN
yahaaN likhnaa nahiiN chaahtaa. US MAY'n KUCHH "NAMAK AUR ZAKhM" KA
ZIKR HAI!
yaad aajaaye toe mujhay mu't'tala'aa kar dijiiyegaa!
tab...@my-deja.com
Pehle to aapki yeh khush fehmi door ho jaani chahiye keh aap ke alaawa
yahan koi aur Urdu padhna likhna nahi jaanta, yahan kai log hai jo Urdu
likhna aur padhna ba-khoobi jaante hain lekin aapki tarha uska dhandora
nahi peeTte. Lekin agar bahut se aise log bhi hain jo urdu rasmul-khat
se faaqif na hone ke baawajood Urdu shaairi mein dilchaspi lete hai to
yeh unki urdu se mohabbat hai jisne urdu ko itna maqbool banaaya aur
zinda rakha warna aap jaise log to urdu ko kuch logon tak makhsoos kar
dete . Nita ki mehant ke liye ham urdu-dano ko uska shukar-guzaar hona
chahiye.
Wali dakhni ka sher jis tarah likha gaya hai sahi hai. Aagar aap ko
shubha ho to apne yaha 9th-10th grade ki Urdu text book ka ghazal
section check kar lijye wahan peheli ghazal Wali dakhni ki isi andaaz
mein likhi mil jaayegi.
'Woh zaraf jo khali hoN
sada dete hain aksar'
-tabassum
In article <8cnjn0$k7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
has...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
--
tabassum
A Cassam
ham aap se mukhaatib hona to naheeN chaahate the.
magar ALUP ki khawaaten ki shaan meiN aap ki aek baar phir se 'insults'
paRh kar ham likhne par majboor ho hi gaye.
Aap ne Sana Sahiba aur Nita Sahiba ko aek public forum meiN itna kuchh
kehnaa munaasib samjhaa...marzi aap ki.
Remember though 'insults only speak poorly of the person making them'!
is khat ke liye, aur pichhle kuchh dinoN se, ALUP ki khawaateen se aap
ke 'insulting' khat-o-kitaabat par to aap ko 'bud-tameezi" ka tamgha
milna hi milna hai.
ALUP public forum hai, phir bhi aap ko bilkul ye zeb naheeN detaa ke aap
kisi se bhi is tarah se khitaab kareN. (much less respectable and
wonderful people like Sana Sahiba and Nita Sahiba).
Aur aap ka chilaa kar ye poochhnaa ke kya unheiN sikhaaya gaya hai ke
" JAB BArAY BOLTAY HAIn TO BACHHAY KhAAMOSH RAHAA KARTAY
HAIn"......bud-tameezi ki had hai .
Nita Sahiba ko aap ne 'WOH' keh kar khitaab karna munaasib samjhaa.
lagta hai aap khawaateen se 'izzat-o-ehtaraam' se mukhaatib hona jaante
hi naheeN.
Besides Nita Sahiba is perfectly within her rights to write in whatever
language she chooses to.
aur aap baar baar apni postings meiN ye taa'na bhi dene ki zehmat na
keejiye 'ke aap ki posts kuchh logoN ke to sar ke uppar se hi guzar
jaati hogeiN'. (The tone in which you write in ...just as well.)
kisi mushaa'ire meiN aek shaa'ir Hazrat ne kahaa tha ke Urdu sirf aek
zaban hi naheeN hai balke aek mukammil tehzeeb hai. yeh Adab bhi
sikhaati hai aur Aadaab bhi. Get the hint ????
Cannot 'boast' about having lived in U.P. for 27 years.
But do very humbly think I am doing pretty good for someone whose mother
tongue and 'spoken language' is not Urdu. Unlike yourself I am very
willing to follow the Aadaab as well as the Adab part of this beautiful
Urdu language.
Thanks to all the wonderful people on ALUP and Raj Kumar Sahib's
continued encouragement.
CHEERS!!!
Abida Sultana
Nita
Hashmat,
I had thought I would not reply to any of your posts in this
unpleasant matter but your obnoxious behaviour leaves me
dumbfounded - well almost!
I thought your inane post against me was a case of sour
grapes but now I see that it is an intrinsic part of your
nature to be arrogant, rude and a chauvinist to boot.
Urdu is not just a language. It encompasses a culture, a
way of living and thinking. The politeness, etiquette and
elegance that is a gift if Urdu to us, seems to be missing
in you. How can you call yourself a lover of Urdu and Urdu
poetry when the very basic tenets of the language seem to
have by-passed you? This is obvious from the way you have
addressed your post to her. And don't think that your ploy
of writing aadaab later has fooled anybody. For God's sake,
this is electronic. You could have easily added the adab
on top before posting. But I suppose you wanted to show off
your Persian ("der aayad durust aayad"). If it weren't so
pathetic, it would be funny.
The least you can do is apoloigse to Sana for your horrific
post. It is completely unwarranted and incorrect to boot.
You have a problem with me, address your posts to me. Kisii
aur ke kandhe pe rakh kar banduuk mat chalaiye.
As far as writing my posts in English, that is my prerogative.
Now I wish thsi matter would eng here but I guess that is
too much to hope for from you.
has...@my-deja.com
thaa kyuuNki woh site-owner haiN. uNhoNnay Raj sahab kii taraf jawaab
kay liye bhej diyaa! AAKHIR JAWAAB NA-DARAD KYUUn HAI:
may-e-ishrat-e-shabanaa
is gHala'tii mayN baRii bariikii hai
I would appreciate a RESPONSE from ANYONE!
________________________________________________________________________
Abida saheba:
sirf sawaaloN aur e'taraZat kaa jawaab:
ham aap se mukhaatib hona to naheeN chaahate the.
> magar ALUP ki khawaaten ki shaan meiN aap ki aek baar phir
se 'insults'
> paRh kar ham likhne par majboor ho hi gaye.
________________________________________________________________________
toe phir aap nay kyuuN likhaa! kyaa:
"MUDDA'YII SUST AUR GAWAAH CHUST" waalii kahawat kaa i'tlaaq aap per
nahiiN hotaa!
be-takk ma'tlab nikaalnaa toe koyii aap say siikhay!
IS MAIn MARD-O-ZAN KAA KAUn SAA RUKH PAAYAA JAATAA HAI. MAIn TOE
SIIDHAY SIIDHAY SANA KAY KHA't KAA JAWAAB DE RAHAA THAA!
aap apnaa yeh mu'aamalah lekar "APPWAA" [Pakistan meiN is naam kii ek
taHriik-e-niswaanii hai]!
________________________________________________________________________
> Aap ne Sana Sahiba aur Nita Sahiba ko aek public forum meiN itna kuchh
> kehnaa munaasib samjhaa...marzi aap ki.
>
> Remember though 'insults only speak poorly of the person making
them'!
toe is kii shu'aat kis nay kii thii, kis nay iskii saNg-e-buniiyaad
rakkhii thii? fursat milay toe puuchh lijiiye gaa sana say!
JO MILAA MUJHAY WOH HII LAUTAA RAHAA HUUn MAIn!
________________________________________________________________________
> is khat ke liye, aur pichhle kuchh dinoN se, ALUP ki khawaateen se aap
> ke 'insulting' khat-o-kitaabat par to aap ko 'bud-tameezi" ka tamgha
> milna hi milna hai.
Where did you get this idea!
I HAVE TO COMMEND ON YOUR 'ART OF TWISTING FACTS'!
YEHII TOE MERII AAP SAY PERSONAL SHIKAAYAT HAI KI AAP HAMAYSHA HAR BAAT
KAA DUSSRA PEHLUU NIKAAL LETII HAIn AUR YEH USKII 'CLASSICAL' MI'sAAL
HAI!
________________________________________________________________________
> Besides Nita Sahiba is perfectly within her rights to write in
whatever
> language she chooses to.
achhaa hii hua ki aap nay yeh mu'aamalah uThaayaa! Thanks!
SURE!
lekin, gaahay~ba~gaahay (kisii urdudaaN say puuchh lijiiye agar yeh
murakkab lafZ gHalat ho toe!) toe URDU FORUM per URDU meiN LIKHNAA
CHAAHIIYE kHaa'S 'taur per jabki woh (don't ask me why I used the
word 'woh' AS YOU HAVE ASKED ME BEFORE!) DARBAAN-E-"MEHFIL-E-GhAZAL"
HAIn!
AB SAWAAL YEH UtHTAA HAI KII AYAA YEH SIRF SAHWAN AUR GhAIR
IRAADII 'tAUR PER HAI YAA QASDAN IS DAR SAY KAY KAHIIn 'POLE' NA KHUL
JAAYE UNKII 'URDU-DAANISTAAGII' KAA!
fursat milay toe aap sab sochiiyegaa is sawaal per!
________________________________________________________________________
> aur aap baar baar apni postings meiN ye taa'na bhi dene ki zehmat na
> keejiye 'ke aap ki posts kuchh logoN ke to sar ke uppar se hi guzar
> jaati hogeiN'. (The tone in which you write in ...just as well.)
There you go AGAIN! maiN nay yeh kis Zimn mayN yeh kahaa thaa shayad
aap nay usko na'Zar-aNdaaz karna behtar samjhaa! woh is liiye kahaa
thaa ki maiN us maHaul mayN 27 saal reh chukaa huuN aur maiN nay aisaa
koyii muakkab lafZ nahiiN sunaa! aur kahaaN kii mi'saal duuN maiN
aapko? kyaa yeh kahuuN ki maiN Afriiqah mayN reh chukaa huuN lihaazah
har 'muHaawarah' aur har "tarkiib" say waaqif huuN?
Put the things in PERSPECTIVE!
Raj sahab nay "TUJH-BIN" AUR "TUJH-LAB" KII MI'SAAL DII. MAIn UnKII
KhIDMAT MEIn YEH 'ARZ KARNAA CHAHUUnGAA KI "TUJH-BIN" MAYn lafZ-e-'bin'
jo hai woh jaa~ez hai KYUUnKI YEH 'NOUN' NAHIIn HAI!
________________________________________________________________________
> kisi mushaa'ire meiN aek shaa'ir Hazrat ne kahaa tha ke Urdu sirf aek
> zaban hi naheeN hai balke aek mukammil tehzeeb hai. yeh Adab bhi
> sikhaati hai aur Aadaab bhi
sure!
lekin, mushaa'yerOn maiN aamad-o-raft baRhaanay say pehlay zaruurii hai
ki URDU-FEHMII aur SHA'YR-FEHMII KAA ME'AAR BArHANAY KII BA-TADRIIJ
KOSHISH KARNII CHAAHIIYE AUR USKAY LIYE 'ZARUURII HAI KI USTADOn KAY
KALAAM KO PArHAYn AUR SAMAJHAYn!
ZAMAANAH-E-'HAA'ZRAH KAY SHU'ARAA BAS "tUJ-PUnJIYE" SHA'AYER HII BAN
KAR REH GAYE HAIn KYUUnKII WOH ZABAAN KII KhIDMAT KARTAY HUYE 'AALAA
ME'AAR KII SHAA'YERII KIS KAY LIYE KARAYn!
THIS IS THE MAJOR REASON WHY THERE IS SUCH A DECLINE IN THE LEVEL OF
URDU POETRY!
mujhay is per ek baat yaad aagayii aur woh kay ek chotay say shahr meiN
(in India) ek zabardast English kii film lagii. az raah-e-'fashion'
bahot say log English film daykhnay gaaye. uNmayN say aisay log bhii
thay jinkaa English say duur-duur kaa bhii vaastah nahiiN thaa! waapsii
per kisii nay puuchaa ki film kaisii thii toe uNhiiN mayN say eik bolaa
ki "PHOTOGRAPHY" bahot achchii thii!
aisii hii kuchh baat hogayii hai hamaaray URDU kay saath!
MERAY WAALID MARhUUM KAHAA KARTAY THAY KI KISII ShAKh'S KI KAR-KARDAGII
KA MA'AAR AGAR PARAKHNAA HAI TO DEKHO KAY WOH KAUn LOG HAIn JO USKII
TA'ARIIFOn KAY PUL BAAnDH RAHAY HAIn. uNKAY ME'AAR KO PArKHO! KYAA
KHUUB KAHAA!
faqat bad-du'aaoN kay iNte'zaar mayN,
Hashmat
Nita
I think it is futile to reply to this man's posts. Let's end
this right here. Aise logon ke muuNh nahii.n laganaa chaahiye.
Apani hii zabaaN gandii hotii hai.
I am a little disappointed that none of other ALUPers felt it
necessary to refute his allegations or even reprimand him on
his posts, not even paasbaan-e-ALUP, Khursheed sahab. However,
that is their prerogative.
kaamraan
The only reason I did not get involved was, I didn't want this
un-ALUP like atmosphere to continue for longer than required.
I noticed that the more we respond to his posts (no matter how
polite we were and how patient even Raj Kumar Sahaab was with
him), his posts subsequently grew malicious and 'cheap'.
We all know what you, Abidaji, Sanaaji, Pathria Sahaab mean to
ALUP. We all appreciate your hardwork, love and dedication in
creating and maintaining your web site, which is definitely the
most comprehensive Urdu-shayaree website on the net. Let us not
let the Irfaan/Hashmat types ruin the pristine atmosphere, and
great camaraderie here in ALUP :-) "They are not worth it". As
you yourself mentioned, let us 'please' end it here.
Hashmat sahaab, as GHalib said,
nikaalaa chaahta hai kaam kya taanoN se tu Ghalib
tere be-reham kehane se, wOh tujh par meharbaaN kyoN hO!
kaamraan
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
A Cassam
I agree wholeheartedly with you. Let's not waste our valuable time
reading posts that totally lack "Aadaab-e-Insaniyat-o-Sharaafat".
Never mind replying , henceforth think I'll skip his posts altogether.
Don't think will miss much.
Cheers!
Abida Sultana
Nita wrote:
>
> Dear Abida,
>
> I think it is futile to reply to this man's posts. Let's end
> this right here. Aise logon ke muuNh nahii.n laganaa chaahiye.
> Apani hii zabaaN gandii hotii hai.
>
> I am a little disappointed that none of other ALUPers felt it
> necessary to refute his allegations or even reprimand him on
> his posts, not even paasbaan-e-ALUP, Khursheed sahab. However,
> that is their prerogative.
>
Vijay S. Bajwa
somehow you got painted into this corner, don't know how, but
you have got to extricate yourself very delicately! We all have
our breaking points sometime, and I think Nitaji's first
response to your corrections (darakhshaan and all that) got
to you. I think Nitaji could have been more differential,
in the light of your knowledge of the subject.
Ustaad kisi bhi lehje meiN baat kare, bura nahiN
maante, aur meiN aap ko ustaadoN mein ginta huN. Aap
ki umr kaa bhi ALUPers ko paas hona chahiye.
Regards,
Vijay
--
Vijay S. Bajwa
This message best viewed with a monitor and a computer
---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7---------8
Nita
Please look up the thread of discussion before you jump into the
fray. Please let me know what it was in first post in this thread
which could have "got to him".
As far as being deferential is being concerned, where and when have
I ever spoken to anybody with disrespect? If he has the knowledge
that you think he does, he would never had written that post. And
even if he did so to present his opinion, which he has every right
to do, he would never have taken umbrage like he has. And just
because someone has knowledge does not give them the right to be
rude and obnoxious. Agar ustaad hai.n to ustaad kaa lahjaa apanaaye.n
Even experts can be wrong and they should have the grace to admit
their mistakes.
I am more than a little surprised that you condone such behaviour
and such posts. Am I to understand that all ALUPers who have so
far kept quiet are condoning this man's actions? If so, then ALUP
has changed dramatically and definitely not for the better.
Nita
--
Visit My Urdu Poetry Page:
http://www.urdupoetry.com
Join Mehfil-e-Gazal mailing list for daily ghazals:
http://www.egroups.com/group/urdu_poetry/
has...@my-deja.com
IF YOU PUSH, GET READY FOR A SHOVE!
['taNZ] kii jab guftugu honay lagii
aap say tum, tum say tu honay lagii
gHaur~talab hai aapkay liye!
________________________________________________________________________
Hashmat,
your inane post against me was a case of sour grapes
(THE CORRECT WORD IS INSANE)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nita,
meray kHayaal say aap "lomRii aur aNguur" kii "Hiqaayat" kii baat kar
rahii thiiN!
bhai, maiN urdudaaN jo Thehraa! "grammar" kay mu'taabiq maiN 'lomRaa'
toe ho saktaa huuN magar "lomRii" hargiz nahiiN! LOL or ROTFL
YEH ISHAARAH PHIR AAP KAY LIIYE g'HAUR-'TALAB HAI! LOL or ROTFL
nuqtaa~'Saanii (ask for help in translating!) yeh ki "lomRii"
apnii "chaalaakii" kii "sifat" kay liiye masHhuur hai, magar
lomRii EIK AUR "SIFAT" KAY LIYE BHII MAShHUUR HAI!
PHIR AAPKAY LIYE EIK AUR gHAUR!TALAB BAAT HAI! LOL or ROTFL
REMEMBER THIS:
"'tAnz~NIGAARII" MAYn MERAA TOE JAWAAB HAI HII NAHIIn! (ADAB-'ARZ HAI,
UUPER LIKHNAA BHUUL GAYA THAA, CHALIYE KOYII BAAT NAHIIn: DAY'R AAYAD,
DURUST AAYAD)
________________________________________________________________________
The least you can do is apoloigse to Sana
------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEH AAP NAY KAUnSII NAI RAVISH-KhUFTAN-E-DIN DAALII HAI?
translation available ON REQUEST! LOL or ROTFL
aap toe din-dahaaRay hii kHwaab daykhtii haiN! wake up! thanks!
________________________________________________________________________
> aur ke kandhe pe rakh kar banduuk mat chalaiye.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS FAR AS HIJJAY IS CONCERNED, THERE YOU GO AGAIN! LOL or ROTFL
lafZ-e-'banduuk' SaHiiH nahiiN hai.
SaHiiH lafZ hai "banduuQ"!
AAJ aap KAY LIYE ITNAA HII KAFII HAI!
faqat URDUDAAn,
Hashmat
Nita
>> your inane post against me was a case of sour grapes
> (THE CORRECT WORD IS INSANE)
My dear Hashmat sahab,
'inane' is correct. And I have used it absolutely in the way it is
meant to be. FYI (For Your Information), the meaning of inane is
1 : EMPTY, INSUBSTANTIAL
2 : lacking significance, meaning, or point : SILLY
It is an adjective derived from the Latin word inanis, dated 1662.
INSIPID is a synonym. The adverbial form is inanely. The abstract
noun is inaneness.
Hope that helps.
A Cassam
You have a right to your opinion just as much as I do, but I beg to
totally disagree with you.
whoever said????
'Ustaad kisi bhi lehje meiN baat kare, bura nahiN
maante'!!
'True' ustaads are the ones who always set an example for their pupils
to follow. Therefore they do need to really really first watch their own
behaviour.
FYI respect has to be earned and only those who deserve respect get
respect. Pupils too expect respect and regard from their Ustaad's.
Ustaad's can hardly 'preach' what they do not 'practice' themselves.
And Ustaad's definitely ain't Gods. They can have all the knowledge in
the world, (rather think they do), be whatever age they are, but they
still have to earn their respect . They also need to admit they are but
human and must own up to their mistakes and acknowledge their
shortcomings. And a good Ustaad also has this God given gift of being
patient.
But we do not expect to see any of these qualities in 'self proclaimed'
Ustaads.....especially the one who is definitely 'envious to death' of
the very high regard and respect ALUPers have for Raj Kumar Sahib.
I think that is his biggest problem and that is what is causing him
immense grief.
Cheers!!!
Abida Sultana
rajkp...@my-deja.com
"Vijay S. Bajwa" <vba...@iscp.telcordia.com> wrote:
> Hashmat Sahib,
> somehow you got painted into this corner, don't know how, but
> you have got to extricate yourself very delicately! We all have
> our breaking points sometime, and I think Nitaji's first
> response to your corrections (darakhshaan and all that) got
> to you. I think Nitaji could have been more differential,
> in the light of your knowledge of the subject.
> Ustaad kisi bhi lehje meiN baat kare, bura nahiN
> maante, aur meiN aap ko ustaadoN mein ginta huN. Aap
> ki umr kaa bhi ALUPers ko paas hona chahiye.
Bajwa Sahib:
I must register with you my utter disappointment at your (implicit)
endorsement of the 'bad-tamteezi' displayed, and still being displayed,
by Hashmat on ALUP.
Your note puts the blame for this episode squarely on Nita, which is
totally unfair. Just think of it --- she quoted Wali Daccani absolutely
correctly, but this stupid guy found so many faults with that she'r and
pounced upon Nita as if she had committed a crime. The fault lay
entirely with his (rather feeble) understanding of Urdu poetry, and not
with anyone else.
And here you come and lay all the blame on Nita's doorstep. Why? If
this is an act of political correctness, fine. But if you think it is
fair, please let me know how you arrived at this absurd inference?
You call this duffer an 'ustaad'. On what basis do you do that? Only
the other day, you called him 'mushkil-ganj' because you couldn't
understand an iota of what he was talking about. And today you think he
deserves deference --- for what? For being almost incapable of
understanding the nuances of Urdu poetry (did you read his commentary
on the latest poem of Ayesha?) or for being totally incapable of
writing poetry (as you should have guessed from the ghazal he ventured
to post on ALUP)? Please do tell me, via ALUP or directly by e-mail, on
what basis you regard this totally unscruplous idiot an 'ustaad'! You
owe me this explanation, and I'll be awaiting your reply!
And, by the way, age should not be a big factor in these matters. When
you write something sensible, I like it. On the other hand, when you
write something like the one I am responding to, I don't like it at
all. In either case, your age is no factor at all!!! You may be my
son's age or my father's --- it makes no difference in literary matters.
Vijay sahib, you just put yourself in Nita's position or in mine ---
people whose service to Urdu lovers everyone (including you) admires,
and then you can see how it feels when a self-proclaimed Urdu-daan
butts in and rubs everyone the wrong way.
In closing, I must reiterate the fact that I am thoroughly
disappointed by your goody-goody note, which effectively endorses the
totally uncivilized behavior of this jerk!
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Vijay S. Bajwa
I was giving Hashmat Sahib an out, knowing full well, that sometimes
people end up in situations they're surprised how they got in, in the
first place. Nitaji, there is nothing disrespectful in your reply to
his "corrections" of Wali Deccani, just, that I would not have ended it
with the implied tone -"There! you see, I'm right and you're wrong"
But, then I went to dejanews and followed the thread silsile-waar, and
came to the conclusion that it wasn't the sayings or doings of one
person that tipped him over the deep end. Rather, he fancied himself
being set upon by Raj Kumar Sahib and his "charmed circle" (from his
point of view). Thus, he mis-interpreted even an innocuous remark as
"cheers" as an exultation/exhortation or whatever. But, he failed to
redeem himself, and his rantings are now bordering on the absurd,
under the most charitable interpretation. Quite a shame, for a person
so obviously knowledgeable as he is.
Nitaji, sorry I could not respond to your post seperately, but I
lost your post somehow fumbling with the keyboard. Anyway, the
points are the same.
--
Vijay S. Bajwa
This message best viewed with a monitor and a computer
---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7---------8
Anshu
you are being completely ridiculous and stupid. Nobody gives a damn about
your knowledge
of urdu whatever it is (since you did even not know, a slightly uncommon
usage in the sher that started it all), the reason people cannot understand
anything you write is because of your
use of capital letters in the middle of words with absolutely no logic.
You are just a whiny, little crying guy who is jealous of the good work that
people like Nita and Raj Sahab do and the well deserved praise that they
receive from others.
If you think, you can shout other people down into respecting and admiring
you, you need to get a big reality check. Go, grow up or yell in Urdu on
the street to show the world your knowledge. Hopefully a neighbor will
complain and get you locked up and free this newsgroup from your
pestilence.
Anshu
<has...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8d2cn5$18u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> REMEMBER THIS:
>
> IF YOU PUSH, GET READY FOR A SHOVE!
>
> ['taNZ] kii jab guftugu honay lagii
> aap say tum, tum say tu honay lagii
>
> gHaur~talab hai aapkay liye!
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Hashmat,
>
> your inane post against me was a case of sour grapes
> (THE CORRECT WORD IS INSANE)
has...@my-deja.com
because of your use of capital letters in the middle of words with
absolutely no logic.
________________________________________________________________________
If one has no choice whatsoever other than to write URDU in ROMAN-
SCRIPT, he/she has to come CLOSE what it would be in URDU-SCRIPT. In
cases where there are more than one Harf that SOUNDS SIMILAR, the
writer has to differentiate between those letters (Huruuf). Note the
capital (upper-case) H because the there are other Huruuf in Urdu
script that sound similar! In this case, it's 'baRii Hay' written
as 'H' as opposed to the other 'chhotii hay' (written as 'h'). There
are, at times, OTHER WORDS that sound similar BUT HAVE TOTALLY
DIFFERENT MEANING, like:
SaHiiH (suad, barii 'H', ye and barii 'H') which means CORRECT
sahii (seen, chootii 'h', ye) which means RIGHT
These meanings are sometimes INTERCHANGEABLE depending on the USAGE!
BUT the derived words from the first 'ROOT' word 'SaHiiH' which is an
Arabic word ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE! ALSO, from the word 'sahii' which
is a Hindustaani word, NO DERIVATIVE WORDS can be COINED. There are:
RULES TO COIN NEW WORDS FROM THE ROOT WORDS USING ARABIC AND PERSIAN
METHODS.
IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR WRITING MORE ACCURATE AND EFFECTIVE, IT IS AN
ABSOLUTE MUST TO KNOW THE CORRECT SPELLING (HIJJAY) AS IS IN URDU
SCRIPT.
Similarly, there are thousands of words that can and will CONFUSE A
READER. I have seen someone write "tashii". It doesn't have a 'sh'
sound and if you are NOT familiar with the word may NEVER KNOW THE
CORRECT WORD AND HENCE THE MEANING OF IT. It should, therefore, be
WRITTEN CORRECTLY as "tasHiiH". Now, everyone will know what you mean!
RIGHT!
I am thinking of writing up "URDU-TUTORIAL: HOW TO WRITE URDU CORRECTLY
IN ROMAN SCRIPT"!
Please GIVE YOUR FEEDBACK!
faqat kHaadim,
Hashmat
greents
Pls visite our site http:// www.i-c-e-a.com
contact amy : ic...@email.om
Vijay S. Bajwa
Aadaab! Just saw your post, I guess there was a lull for about
a day. Unfortunately, my measured response and criticism of
Hashmat Sahib was mistaken for endorsement of his behaviour -
which it was clearly not. In subsequent posts, my condemnation
of such uncivilized behaviour comes out loud and clear. Also,
I did not mean to imply that Nitaji was to blame. I said, or,
rather meant, that I could see how an obviously knoweldgeable
person can be offended by being conradicted in such an authori-
tative manner, by someone he percieves as having less of
a command over the subject.
Clearly, he deserved some consideration. Here he was, posting
one erudite post after another (in fact I saved some of his
posts on word derivations), and to all of a sudden, just go
over the deep end, was mystifying. Everyone deserves a second
chance, and I was merely giving him a chance to rehabilitate
himself. And certainly not, at the expense of Nitaji. She has
every right to express her whichever way she chooses. In the
past, I myself ventured to critique your nazm (Puraani Mehbooba...),
got an edifying response, and that was that.
Yes, I have called him "mushkil-ganj" but I have always given him
credit for his knowledge. I do not like his style of prose (too
labored), but that is another matter. Clearly, he has much to
learn about sh'er-goi and sh'er-fahmi also, going by some of his
posts. I guess he assumes that a knowledge of Arabic and high-
sounding words is enough, even if you don't have a poetic bone
in your body!
Well, enough said, time to move on. I hope you understand where
I was coming from.
Regards,
--
Vijay S. Bajwa
This message best viewed with a monitor and a computer
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rajkp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> In article <38F4A9CD...@iscp.telcordia.com>,
> "Vijay S. Bajwa" <vba...@iscp.telcordia.com> wrote:
>
> > Hashmat Sahib,
> > somehow you got painted into this corner, don't know how, but
> > you have got to extricate yourself very delicately! We all have
> > our breaking points sometime, and I think Nitaji's first
> > response to your corrections (darakhshaan and all that) got
> > to you. I think Nitaji could have been more differential,
> > in the light of your knowledge of the subject.
> > Ustaad kisi bhi lehje meiN baat kare, bura nahiN
> > maante, aur meiN aap ko ustaadoN mein ginta huN. Aap
> > ki umr kaa bhi ALUPers ko paas hona chahiye.
>