Zindagi aur Maut !
Rahul 'Agyat'
aadaab!
main kaafi der se yeh khat likhne ke baare mein chah raha thaa..ek
guzaarish karna chahata thaa aap se..aap sab ALUPers se...kyonki aap
ki shayari padhi...aap ke phalsafe samajhe..aur umeed karta hoon ki
mere sawal kaa jawab aap se behtar koi nahin de sakta...
main yeh samajhta hoon ki zindagi aur maut,sach aur jhoot, vafa aur
bevafaee..yeh sab bebenuniyaadee naam rakhe gaye hain...main akbhi
bhee sochtaa hoo.n to is baat kaa sahi jawab mujhe kabhi naa mil
saka..yaa kahoo.n ki vo jawab jisse mujhe tasalli mile...ki zindagi
kya hai aur maut kya...agar ek varjit phal khakar ham yahan par saza
kaat rahe hain to phir yahaa.n se bahar nikalne se darte kyon
hain...agar ek jhoot kayee baar sau sach se bada ho jaata haiti phir
use jhoot hi kyon kaha jaaye...agar jo shakhs mere mayar kaa nahin
main ham dono.n ki bhalaayee ke liye usse kinaara kartaa hoon bajaye
iske ki ek ghistatee zindagi jeeyein to yeh vafa kyon nahin?
main aap sab se yeh sawal pooch raha hoon..shayad kuch atpata lag raha
ho aapko...par sachche man se meri baat kaa jawab dene kee koshish
keejiyega..bajaye iske ki mujhe jawab mein sirf shayari mile...main vo
jawab chahata hoon jo aap dil se dein...
mujhe intezaar rahega...
Agyat
Irfan 'Abid'
Agyat Sb, aadaab!
bhaaii aap ke Khat ke javaab ke liye to ek 'umr' chaahiye, aur mujhe
to aaj kal lamhoN kaa hisaab rakhnaa paRtaa hai. phir bhii ye soch kar
kuchh arz kar rahaa huuN ki koii javaab na paa kar aap maayuus na ho
jaayeN.:-) aap ijaazat deN to aap ke Khat ke aaKhirii hisse se
shuruu'aat kii jaaye.
muhtaram, aap kii ye baat merii samajh meN nahiiN aayii ki 'javaab meN
aap shaa'irii nahiiN, balki dil kii baat chaahte haiN'.
janaab-e-aalaa, shaa'irii kaa seedhaa seedhaa ta'alluq dil se hai.
yaanii shaa'irii aur kuchh nahiiN, dil kii baat hai. haaN, agar aap ye
kahnaa chaahte haiN ki javaab aap ko nazm (poetry) meN nahiiN, nasr
(prose) meN chaahiye, to baat diigar hai.
aap ne jin mas'aloN kaa zikr kiyaa hai, un se juujhte juujhte kayii
mufakkir (thinkers) aur daanishvar is jahaaN se kuuch kar gaye, lekin
ye mas'ale na suljhaa sake. lihaazah in se zor-aamaaish mere bas kii
baat nahiiN. maiN muKhtasir taur par aap ke bunyaadii savaal par ek
nazar Daalne kii koshish karuuNgaa. meraa Khayaal hai ki jis baat par
aap ne sab se ziyaadah zor diyaa hai, vo hai nuqta-e-nazar (point of
view). ye sach hai ki insaan ko har cheez kaa mukammal jaaizah lene ke
baad hii koii raae qaaim karnii chaahiye. kabhii kabhii aam raae
(consensus) Ghalat bhii nikaltii hai, lekin is kaa imkaan kam hii
hotaa hai. lihaazah zaruurii hai ki apnaa nazariyaa banaane se pahle
aksariyat kii raae par baGhaur nazar Daalii jaaye. agar kisii cheez ko
saarii dunyaa 'bevafaaii' kahtii hai, to use aap 'vafaa' baKhushii
tasleem kar sakte haiN, lekin us kaa faaidah kyaa hai? phir is meN
kyaa rakkhaa hai ki kaun sii cheez kis naam se pukaarii jaatii hai.
agar aap tamaam pahluoN par sanjiidagii se Ghaur karne ke baad is
nateeje par pahuNche haiN ki jo aap kar rahe haiN vo saheeh hai, to
phir us amal ko aap jo chaaheN naam de leN, us kii munaasibat par koii
farq nahiiN paRtaa.
ab ek naachiiz raae detaa huuN. apnii zahnii uljhanoN ko shaa'irii meN
Dhaalne kii koshish kiijiye. maiN ise uljhanoN se firaar (escape) kaa
ek behad umdah zariiyaa maantaa huuN. maiN tabee'atan bahut kam-go
huuN. aap ne sunaa hii hogaa kii uljhaneN agar share na kee jaayeN to
naa-qaabil-e-bardaasht (unbearable) ho jaatii haiN. maiN apnii
uljhaneN shaa'irii ko de detaa huuN aur zahn kuchh halkaa ho jaataa
hai. aap bhii ye raastaa apnaa kar dekhiye.
aur aaKhir meN, baavujuud aap kii manaadii ke, ek sher bataur tabarruk
pesh kartaa huuN:
maanaa ki saaNs saaNs pe bhaarii hai zindagii
phir bhii har ek shaKhs ko pyaarii hai zindagii
niyaazmand,
Irfan 'Abid'
Raj Kumar
>
>
> aur aaKhir meN, baavujuud aap kii manaadii ke, ek sher bataur tabarruk
> pesh kartaa huuN:
>
> maanaa ki saaNs saaNs pe bhaarii hai zindagii
> phir bhii har ek shaKhs ko pyaarii hai zindagii
>
>
jo savaalaat Agyaat ji ne apni 'post' meiN poochhe haiN, (to be frank)
Khaaksaar ko un savaalaat meiN qat'an dilchaspi naheeN hai, is liye
maiN is laRi meiN kuchh bhi kehne ka iraada naheeN rakhta tha.
albatta, aap ka yeh "quote-shuda" she'r paRh kar reh na sakaa!
huzoor, sab se pehle to aap yeh bataaiye k yeh an-mol moti kis
jahaaN-deedah shaa'ir ka hai --- taake ham us jahaaN-deedah shaa'ir
apna dast-basta Khiraaj-e-aqeedat pesh kar sakeN. aur agar,
ITTEFAAQAN, yeh moti aap hi ka hai to --- in all seriousness, hats off
to you!!!
ba-har-haal, aap ke is dil-gudaaz she'r ne to mujhe Janaab-e- Naresh
Kumar Shaad ke aek Ghazab-naak qate' ki yaad dilaa di hai; agar aap ki
samaa'at par garaaN na guzre to arz karooN! farmaate haiN k
ziNdagi shaGhl-e-aah-o-zaarii hai
ziNdagi aek zarb-e-kaarii hai
phir bhi kyaa dilkashi hai ZAALIM meiN!
phir bhi KAM-BAKHT kitni pyaarii hai!!!!
Raj Kumar
Irfan 'Abid'
> i_a...@hotmail.com (Irfan 'Abid') wrote in message news:<632bac0b.02042...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> >
> > aur aaKhir meN, baavujuud aap kii manaadii ke, ek sher bataur tabarruk
> > pesh kartaa huuN:
> >
> > maanaa ki saaNs saaNs pe bhaarii hai zindagii
> > phir bhii har ek shaKhs ko pyaarii hai zindagii
> >
> >
> Irfaan Saahib:
>
> jo savaalaat Agyaat ji ne apni 'post' meiN poochhe haiN, (to be frank)
> Khaaksaar ko un savaalaat meiN qat'an dilchaspi naheeN hai, is liye
> maiN is laRi meiN kuchh bhi kehne ka iraada naheeN rakhta tha.
> albatta, aap ka yeh "quote-shuda" she'r paRh kar reh na sakaa!
>
> huzoor, sab se pehle to aap yeh bataaiye k yeh an-mol moti kis
> jahaaN-deedah shaa'ir ka hai --- taake ham us jahaaN-deedah shaa'ir
> apna dast-basta Khiraaj-e-aqeedat pesh kar sakeN. aur agar,
> ITTEFAAQAN, yeh moti aap hi ka hai to --- in all seriousness, hats off
> to you!!!
>
R K Sb, aadaab!
janaab, ye sher Khaaksaar kaa hii hai. ab aap ne jaisii zabardast daad
dii hai, maiN Khud ko us ke laaiq to nahiiN samajhtaa, phir bhii aap
kaa shukriya adaa karnaa meraa farz hai! :-)
> ba-har-haal, aap ke is dil-gudaaz she'r ne to mujhe Janaab-e- Naresh
> Kumar Shaad ke aek Ghazab-naak qate' ki yaad dilaa di hai; agar aap ki
> samaa'at par garaaN na guzre to arz karooN! farmaate haiN k
>
> ziNdagi shaGhl-e-aah-o-zaarii hai
> ziNdagi aek zarb-e-kaarii hai
> phir bhi kyaa dilkashi hai ZAALIM meiN!
> phir bhi KAM-BAKHT kitni pyaarii hai!!!!
>
vaah! vaah! 'zaalim' aur 'kam-baKht' ne mil kar jo samaaN baaNdhaa
hai, vo jaanlevaa hai! kyaa kahne!
> Raj Kumar
niyaazmand,
Irfan 'Abid'
Yogesh Sethi
On the subject of life and death, Irfan sahib has given you an
excellent answer on the internal maelstrom that engulfs all thinking
beings at one time or another. Let me share with you another
description that I heard from a learned Buddhist monk:
Snow melts in the mountains and the rivulet turns into a river. The
river flows into the ocean where the sun's heat turns water into
clouds and sends them to the mountains where they are turned into
snow. Drop by drop the melting snow returns to the river. The river
continues to flow. The river cannot exist without each drop of water
in it. But which drop of water can ever claim that it existed as a
river!
zi.ndagii kya hai, anaasir me.n zahuur-e-tartiib
maut kya hai, unhii.n ajzaa kaa pareshaa.n honaa
Regards,
Yogesh
rahu...@rediffmail.com (Rahul 'Agyat') wrote in message news:<6e5f02e2.02042...@posting.google.com>...
Rahul 'Agyat'
Aapka bahut bahut shukriya..aapne itnaa vaqt nikaalaa is nacheez ke
liye...aapki shayari padhta rahataa hoon ALUP par aur e-bazm mein..aaj
aap se baat karne kaa maukaa haasil hua..meri khushkismati hai!!
sabse pahli baat!!!!
main shayari kaa behad kadrdaan hoon aur shayari waali baat maine
isliye likhi thee ki maine ALUP par jo bhee shayari padhee usmein se
zyaada tar(Ghustaakhee muaaf) dil kee shaaayari nahin hai...maine
isiliye kaha thaa ki meri baat kaa jawaab zaroori nahin ki kisi sher
se diyaa jaaye yaa koi badi baat kahkar diya jaaye..ho sakta hai..ki
meri baat kaa jawab bahut saada ho! aapki zubaan se kahi ek choti si
baat hi mera jawaab mujhe de de...
haan! yeh hosaktaa hai ki aap sab ne mere sawaal ko halke taur par
liya..maine koi mazaak ya sharaarat ke liye yeh khat nahin likhaa thaa
yaa aap ko ALUP kee leek se hataakar kisi faaltoo bahas mein shareeq
karron ..shayar vo shakhs hote hain jinke paas bahut see baato'n ke
jawaab hote hain..aur main aap sab se yeh umeed rakh raha thaa...par
pata nahin kyon mere is khat ko itnee gambheerata se nahin liya
gaya...mera sawaal itnaa halka to nahin thaa!
chaliye aap se ijaazat maangtaa hoon is sher ke saath:
zindagi aur bhee bahut kuch hai
zindagi sirf bebasi hee nahi'n
zindagi ke aur kayee maqsad hai'n
zindagi sirf aashiqee hee nahi'n
shukriyaa
Agyat
Rahul 'Agyat'
Thanks for ur mail..You are one of the few persons who considered
writing back in response to my question and i really appreciate
that...
And i would really like to know that from where did u get this great
piece of words..it's simply excellent..actually i'm deeply interested
in philosophy...these days i'm reading Kahlil Gibran..
Hope to c u coming up with another inspiring piece...
Thanks Again.
Agyat
yls...@netscape.net (Yogesh Sethi) wrote in message news:<b08be108.02042...@posting.google.com>...
Sarwar Alam Raz
> aadaab!
> main kaafi der se yeh khat likhne ke baare mein chah raha thaa..ek
> guzaarish karna chahata thaa aap se..aap sab ALUPers se...kyonki aap
> ki shayari padhi...aap ke phalsafe samajhe..aur umeed karta hoon ki
> mere sawal kaa jawab aap se behtar koi nahin de sakta...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rahul jee: namaste!
aap kaa yeh Khat bohat pehle maiN ne dekhaa thaa aur us vaqt javaab
dete dete ruk gayaa thaa, is liye naheeN k aap sanjeeda javaab ke
mustaHiq naheeN the bal.k is liye k mere paas ko'ee aisaa javaab
naheeN thaa jo aap kee tashaffee kar saktaa!
maiN na to philosopher hooN aur na hee daanish.var. aap ke savaal
bohat gambheer aur mushkil haiN aur sadiyoN kee soch ke ba'd bhee baRe
baRe damaaGh un ke javaab dene meiN kaamyaab naheeN hue haiN. alup per
logoN kee is silsile meiN Khaamoshee shaayad isee vajh se hai k kisee
ko ilm naheeN k kyaa kahaa jaaye.
maiN apne ko is laa'iq naheeN paataa k javaab kee koshish bhee kar
sakooN.yeh teHreer sirf is liye pesh hai k aap hamaaree taraf se
maayoos na hoN. yahaaN aate raheN, logoN se baat karte raheN aur apnee
talaash jaaree rakheN. kon jaane kab aap ko ko'ee aisaa
saaheb.e.nazar.o.dil mil jaaye jo aap kee girah ko kholne meiN madad
kar sake!
aik zimnee baat mujh ko yaad aayee. jab paRhee thee to baRee dilchasp
lagee thee. is kaa aap ke savaal se ko'ee ta'alluq naheeN hai lekin is
se ma'loom hotaa hai k aik hee mas'ale per log kis taraH muKhtalif
aNdaaz meiN sochte haiN. paRh leejiye. do aik lamHe sochne meiN guzar
jaayeNge!
mash'hoor :physicist: Stephen Hawking se kisee ne pooChhaa k :Do you
believe in God?: aur us ne kam.o.besh in alfaaz meiN javaab diyaa thaa
k :Yes I do, but God speaks to me through the laws of Physics!:
aur haaN idhar bohat dinoN se aap ne e-mail naheeN bhejaa? aap ke job
kaa kyaa banaa? shaadee kab ho rahee hai aur mujh ko invitation card
ab tak kyoN naheeN milaa hai? :))=
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Rahul 'Agyat'
hamesha kee tarah aapne mera hausala badhaya aur mere man mein aap ke
liye jo jagah thee vo aur gahari ho gayee....aapne mere sawal mein
chupe jazbaat ko kam se kam samajhne kee koshish to kee!
aur aapne jo chota sa qissa likh bheja hai...bahut pasand aaya...aur
main vaqayee mein mein usee soch kaa shakhs hoo.n jo us mein kahee
gayee hai..
main apnee aik koshish ALUP par post kar raha hoon...ummeed kartaa
hoon ki kam se kam aap us ko zaroor dekjhege..aur mujhe apni rai se
navaazenge...
shukriya
Agyat
sarw...@yahoo.com (Sarwar Alam Raz) wrote in message news:<267193df.02042...@posting.google.com>...
Yogesh Sethi
I am glad that my previous response appealed to you. Most of us do
have to confront ups and downs in life. They test our mettle. One of
the finest writers of our times, the noble laureate Naguib Mahfouz
from Egypt, describes these ups and downs beautifully. He writes under
the title - Sunrise and Sunset:
"I saw him in two different states.
Once, with the sun rising on him, he looked utterly splendid and
sublime. He would talk, and the listener would find wisdom in the
words he understood and poetry in what he did not.
Another time, with the sun setting on him, he appeared miserable
and puny as he hurried about in rags. He would talk, and listeners
would find banality in the words he understood and stupidity in what
he did not."
Such poetic prose puts a lot of banal poetry that I see around to
shame. Some people will continue to pat themselves on the back and
feel smug about their trite remarks - finding it difficult to outgrow
the childish attitudes. But we must try to rise above pettiness and
keep our hearts clean of any rancor. If we are able to achieve even a
modicum of success in doing that the inner strength that follows can
reward us with incredible tranquility.
insaan ko insaan se kiina nahii.n achchha
jis siine me.n kiinaa ho vo siina nahii.n achchha
I hope that you find these quotations helpful in your struggle to come
to terms with the difficult questions you had raised earlier.
Regards,
Yogesh
Rahul 'Agyat'
It was nice to see ur mail and it was even more nice to read the
quotes...i would like to hear from u that from where do u read such
philosophies...who are the expert writers of the field which one must
read...are there some good sites in the same field ....
I think i told u that these days i'm concentrating on kahlil
gibran..i've found many sites about him and collected some
material..and it's really worth reading..and even i was thinking of
reading some more writers of the field and i'd really like to hear
about it from u..as u seem to be urself quite interested in the same
and quite knowledgable too!
Thanks again..
Agyat
yls...@netscape.net (Yogesh Sethi) wrote in message news:<b08be108.0205...@posting.google.com>...
Yogesh Sethi
reading Khalil Gibran - I also like him. You ask who are the 'expert
writers'? I do not know who can be termed an expert in this arena. But
there are very knowledgeable writers and the list is too long to
enumerate. I think it is necessary to read widely to open one's mind.
Only then you begin to see the choices available to you. Ultimately
each individual must decide for the path that brings in the desired
solace.
J. Krishnamurti poses the question: "What are we seeking? What is it
that each one of us wants? Especially in this restless world, where
everybody is trying to find some kind of peace, some kind of
happiness, a refuge..."
Then he elaborates: "There is a difference between happiness and
gratification. Can you seek happiness? Perhaps you can find
gratification but surely you cannot find happiness. Happiness is a
derivative...". Quite a sagacious observation!
I derive some happiness from poetry. Urdu is among the sweetest
languages of the world and is capable of contributing to such
happiness. It is interesting to note that a large part of the effort
in Urdu poetry has been directed towards artificial pain and
suffering. When Shah Zafar wrote:
ai barq-e-tajalli bahar-e-Khudaa, na jalaa mujhe ishq me.n shammaa saa
merii ziist hai misle-chiraaG-e-sahar meraa chain gayaa merii nii.nd
gaii
A sweet couplet of a sweet ghazal but does anyone know who he was
talking about? Surely he was not pining for his true love! So to write
this type of poetry becomes a pastime, a mental exercise like solving
a crossword puzzle. But when he wrote: "do gaz zameen bhi na mili
koo-e-yaar me.n". It was true poetry coming from his heart and the
whole world understood the depth of his pain. Such poetry has
philosophical aspects hidden in the couplets that I find very
appealing. For this reason I like Ghalib. In my opinion he is the
greatest Urdu poet that ever lived.
huii muddat ke 'Ghalib' mar gayaa par yaad aataa hai
wo har ek baat pe kahanaa ke yuu.N hotaa to kyaa hotaa
Regards,
Yogesh
rahu...@rediffmail.com (Rahul 'Agyat') wrote in message news:<6e5f02e2.02050...@posting.google.com>...
Rahul 'Agyat'
I really enjoyed reading ur mail and i fully agree with u on the
aspect of writing from the heart...and that's the thing wrote when i
said it originally that i don't want that u send just shayari in
response to my question over which Irfan sahab objected..my actual
meaning was that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
times a cooked poetry..varna dil kee baat dil tak phunch jaati..zahan
mein atak kar naa rahati...
and like u even i'm a fan of Ghalib...i've just started reading
Ghalib..about 2-3 months back..(By Lekhram)..and i've been really
enjoying the same..he was a real philosopher..
do u write urself too?..plz. if so..i'll feel great to listen to
u..and ur philosophies..
thanks once again for ur promptness for replying..
Rahul_____.
yls...@netscape.net (Yogesh Sethi) wrote in message news:<b08be108.02050...@posting.google.com>...
Irfan 'Abid'
> Yogesh sahab!
> I really enjoyed reading ur mail and i fully agree with u on the
> aspect of writing from the heart...and that's the thing wrote when i
> said it originally that i don't want that u send just shayari in
> response to my question over which Irfan sahab objected..my actual
> meaning was that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
> times a cooked poetry..varna dil kee baat dil tak phunch jaati..zahan
> mein atak kar naa rahati...
>
> and like u even i'm a fan of Ghalib...i've just started reading
> Ghalib..about 2-3 months back..(By Lekhram)..and i've been really
> enjoying the same..he was a real philosopher..
>
> do u write urself too?..plz. if so..i'll feel great to listen to
> u..and ur philosophies..
>
> thanks once again for ur promptness for replying..
>
> Rahul_____.
>
>
Rahul Sb, aadaab!
aaj ittifaaq se is laRii ko kholaa to aap ke is Khat par nigaah paRii.
lagtaa hai na sirf aap ko mere baare meN Khaasii Ghalat-fahmii hai,
balki aap ke skikve der-paa bhii maaluum hite haiN. :-) lihaazah merii
jaanib se safaai zaruurii hai.
aap ne apne guzishtah khat meN farmaayaa thaa ki maiN ne aap kii
baatoN ko :lightly: liyaa hai. arz hai ki aisii koii baat nahiiN hai.
mujhe aap ke jazbaat kii sanjiidagii aur gahraaii kaa ba-Khuubii
andaazah thaa. mere Khat kii tavaalat is baat kaa sabuut hai. aap ko
shaayad yaad ho ki is tavaalat par Sarwar Sb ne chuTkii bhii lii thii.
Is it not ironical that a third person noticed the pains that I took
to reply to your letter, but you, the addressee, did not! baat faqat
itnii thii ki aap ke Khat se mujhe lagaa ki aap shaayad kuchh zahnii
pareshaaniyoN meN mubtilaa haiN aur maiN ne apne taur par aap kii
diljoii kii ek haqeer koshish kii. har hassaas insaan kii tarah
zindagii kii pechiidagiyaaN mujhe bhii pareshaan kartii haiN, lekin un
ke baabat meraa nazariyah zaraa :practical: qism kaa hai. vahii maiN
ne aap kii Khidmat meN pesh kiyaa thaa. :shaairii: aur :dil: ke
taalluq kaa zikr bhii usii diljoii kii koshish kaa hissah thaa. mujhe
qataii aap kii kisii baat par koii :objection: nahiiN thaa. lekin
zaahir hai ki merii koshish na sirf naakaam rahii, balki us ne to
Thiik ulTaa asar kiyaa! bhaaii, merii kisii baat se aap ko takleef
puNhchii ho to muaafii chaahtaa huuN. samajhdaar ko ishaaraa kaafii
hai aur maiN aap ko yaqeen dilaataa huuN ki mujh se aap kii shaan meN
aisii gustaaKhii aaindah nahiiN hogii. :-)
niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:
Zoya
..my actual
> meaning was that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
> times a cooked poetry..varna dil kee baat dil tak phunch jaati..zahan
> mein atak kar naa rahati...
>
Rahul ji,
I take objection to your statement that most of the poetry on Alup
seems cooked. kyo.Nke isii thread mei.N yeh aap ne pehle bhii likhaa
thaa ke Alup kii poetry dil se nikalii huii nahii.N maluum hotii, I
felt compelled to respond this time.
aap zaraa Raj Kumar Sahib, Sarwar Sahib, Irfan Sahib, Zafar Sahib,
Haya Sahibaa, Jugnoo Sahib, UVR Sahib, to name just a few, kii
shaayarii dobaaraa ghaur se pa.Dhiiye, mujhe to in sab mei.N dilii
jazbaat saaf zaahir nazar aate hai.N. chaahe voh halkii phulkii shakl
mei.N ho.N, yaa phir sa.Njiidaa masaail maslan: sawaalaat, beTii kii
bidaaii, Hindu muslim riots, yaad-e-vatan vaghairaa par ho.N, mujhe to
sabhii jagah dil kii awaaz sunaaii detii hai.
Once again, the only intent of this post is to make it clear that I do
not agree with your statement, meraa aur koii maqsad nahii.N hai.
Take care and God bless,
___________________Zoya
UVR
>
> Yogesh sahab!
> I really enjoyed reading ur mail and i fully agree with u on the
> aspect of writing from the heart...
Mr. Rahul 'Agyat',
yooN to aap ne yeh Khat Yogesh-ji ko likhaa hai, aur shaayad
aap jawaab-talab bhii unhiiN se haiN, LEKIN aap ke chand
nimn-likhit shabdoN (=darj-e-zail alfaaz) ne mujhe aap kii
is post ka jawaab dene par majboor kiyaa hai.
> and that's the thing wrote when i said it originally
> that i don't want that u send just shayari in
> response to my question over which Irfan sahab objected..my actual
> meaning was that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
> times a cooked poetry..varna dil kee baat dil tak phunch jaati..zahan
> mein atak kar naa rahati...
mahaashay, aap ne jis tarah uupar ALUP par aur ALUPers kii
shaa'iri par *laaNchhan* lagaaye haiN, yeh saraasar Ghalat
aur bilkul Ghair zuroori haiN. yeh to aap ke alfaaz saaf
saaf bataa rahe haiN k aap ko na to ALUP kii shaairi pasand
aati hai, aur na hi woh aap ke palle hi paRtii hai, lekin
phir bhi is shaairi ko "cooked" kahnaa un tamaam tahzeeb
kii hadoN ko paar kar jaanaa hai, jin par yahaaN alag se
nishaan dene kii zaroorat nahiiN.
dekhiye, jis tarah aap ne apni pehli post meiN apne sawaal
*APNE* dil se likhe the, Theek usii tarah ALUP kaa har
shaa'ir apni shaa'iri APNE dil-o-dimaaGh se likhtaa hai.
Simply because you don't like or comprehend that poetry,
does not make it "cooked"!
shrImaan, maiN dekh rahaa hooN k aap bahut dinoN se ham
logoN par yeh jataane ki koshish meiN haiN k aap ek mahaan
"chintak" haiN aur aap kii "jeevan-mrityu", "satya-asatya",
"yathaarth-mithyaa" jaise gambheer viShayoN, aur un se
sambaddh prashnoN meiN, gahrii abhiruchi hai. aap Khud
ko philosophy kaa vidyaarthi bhii qaraar de chuke haiN.
phir bhii maiN hairaan hooN k yeh chhoTi-sii, seedhi-saadi
baat kaise aur kyoNkar aap kii samajh meiN nahiiN aayii?!
misaal ke taur par suniye k mujhe us qism kii baihs se koi
dilchaspi nahiN, jo un sawaaloN se paidaa hote haiN, jaise
k sawaal aap ne poochhe the. mere vichaar se in sawaaloN
ke jawaab is qism ki fizool, bekaar aur be_sood baihs se
nahiN mil sakte haiN. balke unke jawaab sirf tajrube
(experience), tafakkur (thoughful contemplation) aur apnii
tahzeeb kii mazhabii kitaaboN (religious texts) ke adhyayan
se hi mil sakte haiN. yaa phir kisi aise shaKs se jo in
teenoN kaa "guru" ho. kisi aur ke saath is tarah ki baihs
karnaa sirf waqt zaa`e karnaa hai, aur kuchh nahiiN!
LEKIN, Ghaur kijiye, k na hii maiN ne apne in taassuraat
kaa izhaar aap ki post ke jawaab meiN kabhi kiyaa, aur na hii
aap ke prashnoN ko maiN ne "meaningless and wasteful discussion
kii jaR" kahaa. kyoN nahiiN kahaa? kyoN.ki aap ne is thread
ki ibtidaa hii meiN yeh ailaan kar diyaa thaa k yeh sawaal aap
ke "dil" kii upaj haiN, aur kisi ke dil ko Thes pahuNchaanaa,
kam az kam merii raaye meiN, Ghalat hotaa hai.
Theek isii tarah, aap ko bhi shobhaa nahiiN detaa k aap ALUP
par hii aa kar ALUPers par hii "heartless" yaa "cooked" poetry
likhne kaa laaNchhan lagaayeN. No, this is totally not passe.
Completely unacceptable on this forum.
ab yeh to bahut Khushii kii baat hai k aap ko Yogesh-saahib
jaisaa ek patient aur philosophy-meiN-interested shaKhs mil
gayaa, jis se aap tabaadila-e-Khayaal kar sakte haiN. lekin,
please, be kind and wise enough to leave ALUP and ALUPers
out of this. You should be able to carry on this discussion
without casting aspersions such as those you have seen fit
to cast.
Huzoor, "ooNcha" to woh hotaa hai jise kisii ko "Ochhaa"
dikhaane kii zaroorat nahiN hoti. Everyone else is just
a pitiful and pitiable pretender to greatness.
-UVR.
Khursheed Ahmed
ke saath shaayeri likhte haiN. Shaayir aksar apne jazbat aur tajurbaat ko
zindagi ka aayeena banaa kar is tareh sher likhne ki koshih karte haiN ke
voh her shaKhs ko "appeal" kareN.
Yeh bhi yaad rahe ke Ghazal maiN radeef aur qaafiya milaana aur wazan
baraabar rakhna koi aasaan kaam nahiN hai.
MaiN Rahul Saheb se srif yehi kahooN ga ke aap ek Ghazal likh ker hameN
bataaiye ke aapk kis tarah ki shaayeri pasand karte haiN.
Faqat,
Khursheed
Sana Ali
First of all I would like to welcome you to Alup, I am sure you will
enjoy your time here.
Mujhe khushi hai ke aap ne apne jazbaat kaa izhaar kiyaa,magar aap ke
savaalaat kuchh uljhe hooe se mehsoos ho rahe haiN .
Jesa ke hamare group ke kuchh aur members ne bhi mehsoos kiyaa,
ghaliban aap ke savaal buniyaadi tour par sha'iri ki taraf nahiN
balke, Iss duniyaa maiN insaan ki mojoodgi, us ke huqooq o faraiz, us
ke roz marrah ke aamal aur us ke aqaid se vaabastaa haiN .
yeh tamaam baatain apni jaghaa baja, magar Alup aik aisa chaman hai,
jiss main har rang ke phool khilte hain. Mujhe yaqeen hai ke alup par
" shaikh ji " mojood haiN to kahiN kisi kone maiN rind bhi zaroor
mojood hoN ge. aur har aik ko yeh haq hasil hai ke voh apni raae kaa
izhaar kar sake, leking agar aap kisi ki taraf ungli uthaa rahe haiN
to you should know that
Haq e tanqeed tumhaiN hai magar is shart ke saath
jaaizah lete raho apne garebaanoN kaa
dil sab kaa hotaa hai , aur dil ki aavaaz bhi har koi rakhta hai,
magar kuchh log dil ki aavaaz ko shairi maiN dhaal sakte hain aur
kuchh log dil ki aavaaz ko nasr maiN dhaalte haiN , kuch log apne dil
ki aavaz ko dil tak hi rakhte haiN ,aur kuch log iss jazbe ko pehchaan
hi nahiN pate.
Sab se pehle to main yeh jaan'na chahooN gi ke aap ne Alup ke ilaavaah
urdu shairi ko kitnaa paRhaa hai, Asataza ka kalaam, dor e jadeed ke
mash'hoor shoraa e karaam aur sab se baRh kar aisi shairi, jiss main
baqol aap ke , dil ki aavaz sunaaee deti ho .
jesa ke maiN ne pehle arz kiyaa, har dil alag hai aur har dil ki
aavaaz alag hai, kisi ko kaabe main Khudaa nazar aataa hai to us ke
dil ko suroor aataa hai , koi madir maiN bhagvaan ki moorti ko daikh
kar shanti pataa hai aur kahiN kisi aashiq ko apne mehboob ki aik
jhalak pa ke deen o duniya ki tamaam khushi naseeb ho jaati hai ...
har jazbaa apni jaghaa ehem hai, har ehsaas dil ki gehraaee se
nikaltaa hai, savaal yeh hai ke daikhne vaali nazar kiss ki hai ,
mehsoos karne vaala apne jazbaat maiN kiss gadar gehraaee rakhtaa hai
aur kisi ki bayaan karda kaifiyat se kiss qadr mutassir ho saktaa hai
.
Ghalib isi mozoo pe farmaate hain
yaarab na voh samjhain haiN, na samjhaiN ge meri baat
de unko aur dil, no ja de mujh ko zubaaN aur
Iqbaal ne farmaayaa
hazaroN saal nargis apni be noori pe roti hai
baRi mushkil se hotaa hai chaman maiN deeda var paidaa
vese aap ki post paRh ke mujhe aik aur shair yaad aa gayaa jo ke
Ghalib ne apne mehboob ko mukhaatib kar ke kahaa hai
" be niyaazi had se guzri bandah parvar kab talak
ham kahaiN ge haal e dil aur aap farmaaiN ke" kiyaa " ?
lol
bahar haal all jokes aside ... there are two parts of your questions ,
one dealing with the " existance of this world and man in it " and
retaled issues
the other one is about Alup and Alupers .
First one , you would have to work on it ... that is a very personal
issue.
Second one , where you said that Alupers and their poetry is not from
the heart .. now that is where I have a problem.. how do you know if
someone's poetry is not from the heart ?
Could it be the that you might not have the warmth of heart to feel
it ?
or the depth of imaginations to relate to it ?
Ponits to ponder.
Khair andaish
Sana
Yogesh Sethi
> Yogesh sahab!
> ... that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
> times a cooked poetry...
Rahul sb, I had been quite busy but that is not the reason for my
delayed response. I was hoping that by now a response would have come
out from you with an explanation for the poor choice of words in
expressing some of your feelings. I hope it was only a poor choice of
words and you do not in fact believe that all the wonderful poems and
ghazals posted on ALUP by some very talented individuals are worthy of
no more than a snicker!
No matter how a poem is written, whether the joy or pain expressed in
it is real or imaginary, its literary value remains undiminished. It
shall be judged by the readers for its quality as a composition in
addition to its technical accuracy as may relate to a ghazal or a
nazm. It is true that when a forceful composition also reflects some
major event, an extra dimension gets added to the work - like the
ghazal by Ghalib: "sab kahaa.N, kuchh laalaa-o-gul me.n numaayaa.N ho
gaii.n"
I have read a number of posts in which disagreement has been expressed
on your comments. I would like to add my opinion that it is wrong to
imply, on a whole sale basis, that the poems posted on ALUP are
somehow unworthy.
If you agree with the view that has been put forward against you, one
possible way to put an end to this matter would be to express an
apology to all ALUPers, if there is any misstatement in your
expression. On the other hand if you do have in fact some strong
reservations in this matter then let us hear a detailed explanation as
to why you think so.
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to put any words in your
mouth one way or the other. But simply wish to express my disagreement
with your comments and request that you try to resolve the matter
first in your own mind and than present it here.
Hoping to hear soon from you. I wish you well.
Yogesh
Sarwar Alam Raz
> rahu...@rediffmail.com (Rahul 'Agyat') wrote:
>
> > Yogesh sahab!
> > ... that..whatever i've been reading on ALUP seems most of the
> > times a cooked poetry...
>
> Rahul sb, I had been quite busy but that is not the reason for my
> delayed response. I was hoping that by now a response would have come
> out from you with an explanation for the poor choice of words in
> expressing some of your feelings. I hope it was only a poor choice of
> words and you do not in fact believe that all the wonderful poems and
> ghazals posted on ALUP by some very talented individuals are worthy of
> no more than a snicker!
Yogesh saaheb namaste!
With all respect to you and other alupers may I suggest that we put
this thing to rest right now and here by simply going on to a new
topic? There should be no need for an apology for any opinion by
anyone as long as it is honest and is expressed in a reasonable way.
Using my own criteria I have to say that :enough is enough; let us
stop this exercise in futility now: I hope you will agree.
We meet here to further an understanding of literature. I suggest that
some things need to be set aside in this quest.
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Rahul 'Agyat'
My response is already on the forum becoz even I was quite concerned
with the amount of resentment that developed against me on ALUP as is
clear from the no. of posts and the similarity of content.
Thanks for ur kind words and plz. do read my letter..may be u could
understand me better..
Thanks and Regards
Rahul.
yls...@netscape.net (Yogesh Sethi) wrote in message news:<b08be108.02051...@posting.google.com>...
Yogesh Sethi
aap bajaa farmaate hai.n - In so far as I am concerned, please
consider this matter closed. I say to all: let's move on! To Rahul ji,
I say that I will be happy to resume our discussion, if you so desire.
Regards,
Yogesh
Khursheed Ahmed
Zindagi aur Maut per Brij Narain Chakbast ka ek sher suntay jaa'iye:
Zinadgi kiya hai anaasir maiN zahoor-e-tarteeb
(anaasir=elements, zahoor=manifestation, tarteeb=orderliness)
Maut kya hai in hiiN ajzaa ka pareshaaN hona
(ajza=ingridients, pareshaaN=chaos, disorder)
Kind regrads,
Khursheed