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diivaar-i-gulistaaN
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Naseer
Jul 9, 2023, 3:12:38 PM7/9/23
to
dostaan-i-3aziiz aadaab 3arz hai.
ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
“jag – jakaR – jaal” * par ek hind-aariyaa’ii lisaaniyaat ke group meN ek dost ne “diivaar-i-gulistaan” kii tarkiib ke ma’3ne daryaaft kiye. zaahir hai kih is kaa javaab aasaan saa hai, ya3nii “garden wall or rose-garden wall, or flower-garden wall”. lekin jab shirkat-kunindagaan ne in Hazrat se kuchh siyaaq-i-sibaaq chaahaa to unhoN ne batayaa kih yih tarkiib Intizaar Hussain kii kitaab “charaaGhoN kaa dhu’aaN” se maaxuuz hai aur is kaa pas-manzar Hasb-i-zail hai.
“ek bii-bii itvaar kii itvaar namuudaar hotii haiN. Xaamoshii se thoRaa vaqt baiThiiN. chaa’e xvud pii, duusroN ko pilaa’ii aur uTh khaRii hu’iiN. yih Nudrat Altaaf haiN. naam-i-xudaa jab javaaN thiiN to kaafii-haa’uus meN baiThtii thiiN. shahr meN in kii dhuum thii. maiN ne inheN ek khel meN dekhaa thaa. kyaa chaTaax chaTaax boltii thiiN. shabaab kam-baxt shitaabii se aayaa, shitaabii se gayaa. isii rau meN vuh kaafii-haa’uus se nikliiN aur duur-des nikal ga’iiN. vaapas aa’iiN to dekhaa kih kaafii-haa’uus band ho chukaa hai, Tii-haa’uus kaa rux kiyaa. bas phir yahiiN kii ho rahiiN. kaafii-haa’uus ke aksar ujRe hu’oN ko Tii-haa’uus hii ne siine se lagaayaa thaa. unheN bhii siine se lagaa liyaa. dhuup to saarii chalii ga’ii. diivaar-i-gulistaan par us kaa ko’ii naam-o-nishaan nazar nahiiN aayaa. is bhale same ke saathii bhii chiRiyoN kii tarH uR ga’e. ab Tii-haa’uus kii ek mez se nibaah kar rahii haiN…..”
Is tahrir meN vuh juzv jo hamaare liye ahamm hai vuh hai “dhuup to saarii chalii ga’ii. diivaar-i-gulistaan par us kaa ko’ii naam-o-nishaan nazar nahiiN aayaa”.
kuchh ghaur-o-xauz ke ba3d mujhe iHsaas hu’aa kih Urdu shi3r-o-shaa3irii meN dhuup aur diivaar kaa aapas meN ek xaas rishtah hai. is silsile meN yih do ash3aar mulaaHizah farmaa’iye.
dhuup kii lahr hai to saayah-i-diivar haiN ham
aaj bhii ek ta’alluq hai tire saath hameN
Shakeb Jalali
Gham lage rahte haiN har aan xushii ke piichhe
dushmanii dhuup kii hai saayah-i-diivar ke saath
Qatiil Shifa’ii
gar xudaa jhuuT nah bulvaa’e (to steal our dear Raj Kumar SaaHib’s phraseology) kyaa dhuup ma3shuuq kaa Husn hai aur diivaar us kaa jism? aur gulistaaN shaayad maHfil kaa mutaraadif hai. Is shi3r se yih mafhuum maziid 3ayaaN hotaa hai.
Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par.
naa-ma3luum
3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
* jag - jakaR - jaal (jjj) = world - wide - web (www) ! :-)
3aqiidat-mand,
Naseer
ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
“jag – jakaR – jaal” * par ek hind-aariyaa’ii lisaaniyaat ke group meN ek dost ne “diivaar-i-gulistaan” kii tarkiib ke ma’3ne daryaaft kiye. zaahir hai kih is kaa javaab aasaan saa hai, ya3nii “garden wall or rose-garden wall, or flower-garden wall”. lekin jab shirkat-kunindagaan ne in Hazrat se kuchh siyaaq-i-sibaaq chaahaa to unhoN ne batayaa kih yih tarkiib Intizaar Hussain kii kitaab “charaaGhoN kaa dhu’aaN” se maaxuuz hai aur is kaa pas-manzar Hasb-i-zail hai.
“ek bii-bii itvaar kii itvaar namuudaar hotii haiN. Xaamoshii se thoRaa vaqt baiThiiN. chaa’e xvud pii, duusroN ko pilaa’ii aur uTh khaRii hu’iiN. yih Nudrat Altaaf haiN. naam-i-xudaa jab javaaN thiiN to kaafii-haa’uus meN baiThtii thiiN. shahr meN in kii dhuum thii. maiN ne inheN ek khel meN dekhaa thaa. kyaa chaTaax chaTaax boltii thiiN. shabaab kam-baxt shitaabii se aayaa, shitaabii se gayaa. isii rau meN vuh kaafii-haa’uus se nikliiN aur duur-des nikal ga’iiN. vaapas aa’iiN to dekhaa kih kaafii-haa’uus band ho chukaa hai, Tii-haa’uus kaa rux kiyaa. bas phir yahiiN kii ho rahiiN. kaafii-haa’uus ke aksar ujRe hu’oN ko Tii-haa’uus hii ne siine se lagaayaa thaa. unheN bhii siine se lagaa liyaa. dhuup to saarii chalii ga’ii. diivaar-i-gulistaan par us kaa ko’ii naam-o-nishaan nazar nahiiN aayaa. is bhale same ke saathii bhii chiRiyoN kii tarH uR ga’e. ab Tii-haa’uus kii ek mez se nibaah kar rahii haiN…..”
Is tahrir meN vuh juzv jo hamaare liye ahamm hai vuh hai “dhuup to saarii chalii ga’ii. diivaar-i-gulistaan par us kaa ko’ii naam-o-nishaan nazar nahiiN aayaa”.
kuchh ghaur-o-xauz ke ba3d mujhe iHsaas hu’aa kih Urdu shi3r-o-shaa3irii meN dhuup aur diivaar kaa aapas meN ek xaas rishtah hai. is silsile meN yih do ash3aar mulaaHizah farmaa’iye.
dhuup kii lahr hai to saayah-i-diivar haiN ham
aaj bhii ek ta’alluq hai tire saath hameN
Shakeb Jalali
Gham lage rahte haiN har aan xushii ke piichhe
dushmanii dhuup kii hai saayah-i-diivar ke saath
Qatiil Shifa’ii
gar xudaa jhuuT nah bulvaa’e (to steal our dear Raj Kumar SaaHib’s phraseology) kyaa dhuup ma3shuuq kaa Husn hai aur diivaar us kaa jism? aur gulistaaN shaayad maHfil kaa mutaraadif hai. Is shi3r se yih mafhuum maziid 3ayaaN hotaa hai.
Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par.
naa-ma3luum
3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
* jag - jakaR - jaal (jjj) = world - wide - web (www) ! :-)
3aqiidat-mand,
Naseer
Message has been deleted
Naseer
Jul 12, 2023, 12:01:21 PM7/12/23
to
dostaan-i-giraamii, aadaab.
In addition to other possible typos in my opening post, I would like to say that "siyaaq-i-sibaaq" is most definitely a typo and it ought to be, "siyaaq-o-sibaaq".
Naseer
In addition to other possible typos in my opening post, I would like to say that "siyaaq-i-sibaaq" is most definitely a typo and it ought to be, "siyaaq-o-sibaaq".
Naseer
Zoya
Jul 25, 2023, 11:16:39 PM7/25/23
to
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 2:12:38 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> dostaan-i-3aziiz aadaab 3arz hai.
>
> ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
>
aadaab arz hai Naseer sahib,
> dostaan-i-3aziiz aadaab 3arz hai.
>
> ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
>
First of all, thanks for starting this new thread, and apologies that I didn't get to read it until today. Alup has been so slow lately, even I have been hibernating! :)
I find your perspective of moving away from the literal meaning of 'diivaar-e-gulistaaN' rather interesting.
> gar xudaa jhuuT nah bulvaa’e (to steal our dear Raj Kumar SaaHib’s phraseology) kyaa dhuup ma3shuuq kaa Husn hai aur diivaar us kaa jism? aur gulistaaN shaayad maHfil kaa mutaraadif hai. Is shi3r se yih mafhuum maziid 3ayaaN hotaa hai.
>
> Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
> abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par.
>
> naa-ma3luum
>
> 3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
How I too wish RK sahib and Irfan sahib would come back here! Maybe they will, if I echo you? Maybe??
> 3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
> * jag - jakaR - jaal (jjj) = world - wide - web (www) ! :-)
>
> 3aqiidat-mand,
> Naseer
mujhe apne ruup kii dhuup do k chamak sakeN mire Khaal-o-Khad
mujhe apne rang meN rang do mire saare zang utaar do
aur phir Irfan Siddiqui:
ruup kii dhuup kahaaN jaati hai ma'luum nahiiN
shaam kis tarah utar aati hai ruKhsaaroN par
Something to think about.........
adios for now,
_________Zoya
Raj Kumar
Aug 20, 2023, 1:01:32 AM8/20/23
to
Huzuur, jo tarkeeb aap ne pesh kii hai, ain aisi tarkeeb Khaaksaar ki nazar se nahiiN guzrii. albatta, yeh tarkeeb nihaayat mauzuuN lag rahii hai aur aap ka pesh-karda yeh she'r is baat ka zaamin hai:
"Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par".
mere Khayaal meN, yeh kahnaa vaajib nahiiN hoga k Haseena ke jism ko diivaar-e-gulistaaN se tashbeeh dii ga'ii hai. In my opinion, yeh tashbeeeh nahiiN, ist'eaara hai.
Now, in a lighter vein ---------------------
aap ke pesh-karda she'r meN Husn ke Dhal jaane ka zikr aayaa hai. is baat par aek maze-daar she'r yaad rahaa hai magar lutf tab hai k aap yahaaN teen adad ash'aar suniye aur is Khusuusii baat ka mazaa teesre she'r meN leejiye. arz hai:
fareb-e-ziNdagii ko ziNdagii maHsuus kartaa huuN
muyassar DaalDaa hotaa hai, ghee maHsuus kartaa huuN
tap-e-Gham meN pariishaaN kar rahii hai hijr kii sardii
maheena juun kaa hai, janvarii maHsuus kartaa huuN
DHALAA SIN aur jahaan-e-Husn meN ik inqilaab aayaa
vuhii qaaleen hai jis ko darii maHsuus kartaa huuN
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
Zoya
Aug 22, 2023, 1:11:08 PM8/22/23
to
On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 12:01:32 AM UTC-5, Raj Kumar wrote:
> yahaaN, Zoya saaHiba ne "ruup ki dhuup" ka zikr kiyaa hai jo apni jagah ravaa hai, albatta Haaliya baHs ke zimn meN "nazar ki dhuup" ziyaada mauzuuN hai ----- jaise, "meri nazar ki dhuup, na bhartii ruup to hotaa Husn tiraa be-kaar"; goyaa, Haseena ki saj-dhaj ko hamaari nazar ki DHUUP ne nikhaar baKhshaa hai. This brings out the role of DHUUP similar to the one your tarkeeb implies.
Quite interesting RK sahib.
> yahaaN, Zoya saaHiba ne "ruup ki dhuup" ka zikr kiyaa hai jo apni jagah ravaa hai, albatta Haaliya baHs ke zimn meN "nazar ki dhuup" ziyaada mauzuuN hai ----- jaise, "meri nazar ki dhuup, na bhartii ruup to hotaa Husn tiraa be-kaar"; goyaa, Haseena ki saj-dhaj ko hamaari nazar ki DHUUP ne nikhaar baKhshaa hai. This brings out the role of DHUUP similar to the one your tarkeeb implies.
is vaqt mere zehn meN do asha'ar aa rahe haiN, by my two all time favorite poets. These illustrate each point of view.
pehle 'ruup ki dhuup', by Irfan Siddiqui:
badan ke donoN kinaaroN se jal rahaa huuN maiN
k chhuu rahaa huuN tujhe aur pighal rahaa huuN maiN
aur ab 'nazar ki dhuup', by Ahmad Faraz:
yeh kin nazroN se tuune aaj dekhaa
k tera dekhnaa dekhaa na jaaye!
> Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
_________Zoya
Naseer
Sep 7, 2023, 4:46:09 AM9/7/23
to
aadaab 3arz hai, Zoya SaaHibah
On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 04:16:39 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 2:12:38 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> > dostaan-i-3aziiz aadaab 3arz hai.
> >
> > ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
> >
> aadaab arz hai Naseer sahib,
>
> First of all, thanks for starting this new thread, and apologies that I didn't get to read it until today. Alup has been so slow lately, even I have been hibernating! :)
No problem Zoya SaaHibah. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I haven't got back to you because I thought I'd wait for Raj Kumar and Irfan SaaHibaan and then get back to all. It is our great fortune that Raj Kumar SaaHib has taken the trouble to respond to my query. I wonder how Irfan SaaHib is?
> I find your perspective of moving away from the literal meaning of 'diivaar-e-gulistaaN' rather interesting.
> > gar xudaa jhuuT nah bulvaa’e (to steal our dear Raj Kumar SaaHib’s phraseology) kyaa dhuup ma3shuuq kaa Husn hai aur diivaar us kaa jism? aur gulistaaN shaayad maHfil kaa mutaraadif hai. Is shi3r se yih mafhuum maziid 3ayaaN hotaa hai.
> >
> > Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
> > abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par.
> >
> > naa-ma3luum
> Nice! Reading this she'r immediately reminded me of the term 'ruup ki dhuup', and a couple of asha'ar that I have always sort of liked.
> >
> > 3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
I do believe you (and Raj Kumar SaaHib) are on the right track with regard to "ruup kii dhuup" where I would equate "dhuup" (chamak, radiance, glow) with "Husn". Thank you for the lovely ash3aar.
Naseer
On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 04:16:39 UTC+1, Zoya wrote:
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 2:12:38 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> > dostaan-i-3aziiz aadaab 3arz hai.
> >
> > ummid hai kih aap sab ba-xair-o-3aafiyyat hoN ge.
> >
> aadaab arz hai Naseer sahib,
>
> First of all, thanks for starting this new thread, and apologies that I didn't get to read it until today. Alup has been so slow lately, even I have been hibernating! :)
> I find your perspective of moving away from the literal meaning of 'diivaar-e-gulistaaN' rather interesting.
> > gar xudaa jhuuT nah bulvaa’e (to steal our dear Raj Kumar SaaHib’s phraseology) kyaa dhuup ma3shuuq kaa Husn hai aur diivaar us kaa jism? aur gulistaaN shaayad maHfil kaa mutaraadif hai. Is shi3r se yih mafhuum maziid 3ayaaN hotaa hai.
> >
> > Dhalaa hai Husn lekin rang hai ruxsaar-i-jaanaaN par
> > abhii baaqii hai kuchh kuchh dhuup diivaar-i-gulistaaN par.
> >
> > naa-ma3luum
> Nice! Reading this she'r immediately reminded me of the term 'ruup ki dhuup', and a couple of asha'ar that I have always sort of liked.
> >
> > 3ain mumkin hai kih is mu3aamile meN merii samajh-buujh durust nah ho. lihaazah merii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil ke naamvar shaa3ir janaab-i-Raj Kumar SaaHib, janaab-i-Irfan Abid SaaHib aur muHtaramah Zoya SaaHibah “dhuup” par kuchh raushanii Daalte hu’e “diivaar-i-gulistaaN” kii jaanib baRheN”. 3ain navaazish hog ii.
> aur ab aap 'ruup ki dhuup' par voh asha'ar suniye, jo is vaqt mere zehn meN aa rahe haiN, pehle Aitbar Sajid:
>
> mujhe apne ruup kii dhuup do k chamak sakeN mire Khaal-o-Khad
> mujhe apne rang meN rang do mire saare zang utaar do
>
> aur phir Irfan Siddiqui:
>
> ruup kii dhuup kahaaN jaati hai ma'luum nahiiN
> shaam kis tarah utar aati hai ruKhsaaroN par
>
> _________Zoya
>
> mujhe apne ruup kii dhuup do k chamak sakeN mire Khaal-o-Khad
> mujhe apne rang meN rang do mire saare zang utaar do
>
> aur phir Irfan Siddiqui:
>
> ruup kii dhuup kahaaN jaati hai ma'luum nahiiN
> shaam kis tarah utar aati hai ruKhsaaroN par
>
I do believe you (and Raj Kumar SaaHib) are on the right track with regard to "ruup kii dhuup" where I would equate "dhuup" (chamak, radiance, glow) with "Husn". Thank you for the lovely ash3aar.
Naseer
Naseer
Sep 7, 2023, 9:02:33 AM9/7/23
to
aap kii is maHfil meN shirkat aur aap ke radd-i-3amal par bandah phuulaa nahiiN samaa rahaa! haaN yih alag baat hai kih merii tibbii Haalat bhii kuchh aisii hii rahii hai jis meN aap kii xushii meN phuulne aur apne rog se suuj jaane meN farq karnaa mushkill ho gayaa hai! :-) lihaazaa javaab dene meN taaxiir ho ga'ii hai aur is ke liye maiN ma3zirat-xvaah huuN.
"nazar kii dhuup" kaa tasavvur pesh karne ke liye shukriyah. lekin yahaaN markaz-i-xayaal 3aashiq ho jaataa hai jis ke ba-qaul Hasiinah ke Husn kaa nikhaar dekhne vaale kii nazar kii dhuup se vaa-bastah hai. aap kaa kahnaa bi_lkul ba-jaa hai. isti3aarah hii hai nah kih tashbiih.
bahut xuub ash3aar pesh kiya heiN aap ne Raj Kumar SaaHib. kyaa kahne!
aap to apne qaaliin ko darii maHsuus kar rahe haiN. kyaa kabhii aap ko skuul ke zamaane meN "TaaT" par baiThne kaa ittifaaq hu'aa hai?
ab baar-i-digar "diivaar-i-gulistaaN" par tazkirah ho jaa'e.
"dhuup to saarii chalii ga’ii. diivaar-i-gulistaan par us kaa ko’ii naam-o-nishaan nazar nahiiN aayaa".
aaxir meN maiN Zoya SaaHibah kii baat kii taa'iid karnaa chaahtaa huuN. is meN zarrah-bhar kaa mubaalaGhah nahiiN kih aap ke ba-Ghair is maHfil meN nah mazah hai aur nah hii raunaq! is liye hamaarii darxvaast hai kih is maHfil kii Haalat-i-zaar ko dekhte hu'e, yahaaN Hasb-i-taufiiq tashriif laate rahiye aur apnii shiiriiN-bayaanii se hameN maHzuuz karte rehiye. 3ain navaazish ho gii.
xaak-saar,
Naseer
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