Who has written this couplet
v
na Khuda hee milaa na visaal e sanam
na idhar ke rahe na udhar ke rahe
who has written this couplet and is this part of a ghazal?
Thanks in advance
Ravi
Vijay
I have a very old book in which this she'r (in isolation) is
attributed to (I presume Bahadar Shah) Zafar!
Vijay
Vijay
I meant 'Bahadur' :-)
UVR
According to your book, Vijay saahib, is the word used in this couplet
'na' or 'nai' (everywhere)?
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
As far as the second line is concerned, it can even be attributed
to Majrooh. I am sure UVR saheb will be able to decipher this
clue !
Afzal
Naseer
This shi'r has been mentioned a number of times in ALUP in the past,
the earliest inclusion in a post by Tabassum Sahiba in 1999 with the
title "bahut be-aabru ho kar tere kuche se ham nikale." The poet's
name is given as Mirza Sadiq Sharar.
ga'e donoN jahaan ke kaam se ham nah idhar ke rahe nah udhar ke rahe
nah Khudaa hii milaa nah visaal-i-sanam nah idhar ke rahe nah udhar ke
rahe
Since then, this couplet has popped up on a number of occasions.
In the first post (Sarwar Sahib) of "Dilchasp Adabee Haqaa.eq # 9
(January 2002)
In November 2008, Zafar Sahib mentions it in his post in the thread
entitled
"Topic of the Month 11/08 Mash_huur GhazloN meN "paivand""
In April 2009, Sarwar Sahib began a thread with the title "do ash'aar"
asking for the authorship of this and another shi'r.
Vijay Sahib had then mentioned too that his old book indicated "Zafar"
as the poet. It seems a bit surprising that in an earlier post Sarwar
Sahib had given the poet as Mirza Sadiq Sharar. It is possible that
there was doubt in his mind about this matter. Nevertheless, the
consensus seems to be that the poet is "Mirza Sadiq Sharar".
Naseer
Vijay
It is 'na', UVR sahib. My book is in Panjabi (scripted in Gurmukhi)
and denotes the word with just 'n', i.e. without the 'a' sound.
On a side note, my book is quite unreliable in making attributions. It
has at least a couple other verses mis-attributed; so I have a low
thresh-hold in questioning its veracity.
Vijay
Baad-e-Siyaah
How does 'na Khuda hi milaa' vs 'na visaal e sanam'
equals 'na idhar ke rahe' ;'na udhar ke rahe'
Vijay
Kala sahib, sanam literally means 'but' (as in statue/idol). Hope this
makes the meaning clear!
Vijay
Afzal A. Khan
Next question would be :
How does "visaal" equal (sic) "but" !!
Afzal
Vijay
I am not quite sure if this is a serious question or one of your usual
'facetious' 'smart Alecky' asides about does/equal/equals! In any
case, my take on the she'r is the straight forward one, that by
engaging in the kafiraana act of 'sanam'-chasing, shaa'ir has fallen
out of favour with Khuda; and as it is, 'sanam' (as is usually the
case with shaa'irs and sanams) has rejected him anyway. So as is
usual, lose-lose situation for the poor aashiq.
If there is a deeper meaning, I am all 'ears'.
Vijay
Baad-e-Siyaah
> > > Kala sahib, sanam literally means 'but' (as in statue/idol). Hope this
> > > makes the meaning clear!
>
> > > Vijay
>
> > Next question would be :
>
> > How does "visaal" equal (sic) "but" !!
>
> > Afzal
>
> I am not quite sure if this is a serious question or one of your usual
> 'facetious' 'smart Alecky' asides about does/equal/equals! In any
> case, my take on the she'r is the straight forward one, that by
> engaging in the kafiraana act of 'sanam'-chasing, shaa'ir has fallen
> out of favour with Khuda; and as it is, 'sanam' (as is usually the
> case with shaa'irs and sanams) has rejected him anyway. So as is
> usual, lose-lose situation for the poor aashiq.
>
> If there is a deeper meaning, I am all 'ears'.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Vijay saahib, there appears a contradiction in your two explanations.
First you explicitly state that sanam -> 'but' and emphasize 'but'->
idol/statue which would exclude sanam as a 'sweet heart'. If we go by
this explanation then we have a sensible contrast; neither formless
god nor god in an idol although the she'r doesn't provide any context
for this dichotomy.
However in your second explanation you use phrase 'sanam chasing',
quite clearly reference is to sanam's other meaning i.e.'sweet heart'
Here I have a problem. How is attempt at 'visaal e sanam' kaafiraanaa?
Quite clearly shair believes you can either have proximity of 'Khuda'
or that of 'sanam'
Could it be our society’s regressive attitude of all carnal pleasures
being sin?
v
>
> - Show quoted text -
The first line is illustrative. It says 'gaye dono.n jahaa.n ke kaam
se...' which indicates that this is about the worldly and otherworldly
dichotomy. so in this world I could indulge in the 'carnal' and other
such earthly pleasures. this would ensure that my 'parlok' could not
have 'sudhar paataa'. the other thing to do is sing bhajans and
qawwalis in praise of the lord almighty and not pay any heed to the
worldly entrapments. this would ensure 'ki parlok sudhar jaataa , yaa
Khudaa mil jaataa'. but I kind of vacillated between the two. when I
was indulging in the 'carnal' pleasures, the sin attributed to it and
hence damage to my otherworldly prospects kept me off it. when I was
indulging in god-propitiation, i was grossly aware of the fact that
there were so many worldly pleasures that I was neglecting. so much so
that, I have hung between the earth and the heaven like a 'trishanku'
and not been able to do either. almost like a labour-conservative
coalition in the uk :)
hence trying to force fit sanam from a religious perspective might not
be ideal here. just think of her as a beautiful form. well forget the
beautiful. just a female form. visaal i believe is the key word here -
not sanam.
Regards
Ravi
Baad-e-Siyaah
> hence trying to force fit sanam from a religious perspective might not
> be ideal here. just think of her as a beautiful form. well forget the
> beautiful. just a female form. visaal i believe is the key word here -
> not sanam.
>
> Regards
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ravi Saahib, all I am trying to say is that the she'r kind of suggests
that the two acts are contradictory and cannot be parallel. On the
other hand I don't see these acts as contradictory i.e. attempt at
'visaal e sanam' is quite independent of effort to reach Khuda. In
fact there are some Bhakti and Suufi traditions in which one way of
reaching God is through intense 'ishq' by treating God as object of
your love (male) and oneself as female.
aadaab arz hai
UVR
>
> Ravi Saahib, all I am trying to say is that the she'r kind of suggests
> that the two acts are contradictory and cannot be parallel. On the
> other hand I don't see these acts as contradictory i.e. attempt at
> 'visaal e sanam' is quite independent of effort to reach Khuda. In
> fact there are some Bhakti and Suufi traditions in which one way of
> reaching God is through intense 'ishq' by treating God as object of
> your love (male) and oneself as female.
>
> aadaab arz hai
Kala sahib,
It's not contradictory -- you can either have single-minded devotion
for God, or you can have (the same intensity of) single-minded
devotion for some other (i.e., sanam). If you really are a True
Lover, then you can only be "there" (udhar ke) or "here" (idhar ke).
This half-hearted business of trying to ride in two boats at one time
(trying for visaal with sanam as well as attaining Khuda) is simply
not done by True Devotees. Not in Bhakti or Sufi tradition. Not even
in real life. I urge you not to try :-)
-UVR.
Vijay
>
> - Show quoted text -
Anil sahib:
The contradiction is only 'apparent'. In reality, the duality of the
word 'sanam' is an oft used motif in Urdu shaa'irii. sanam-aashnaaii
is both, a pursuit of a beloved as well as the literal 'but-parastii'.
That is why 'sanam' and 'but', when used to describe a beloved in a
she'r, will often have allusion to 'kaifraana' behaviour, and/or
rejection by Khuda. (whereas words like 'mehboob' do not evoke such
sentiments).
some examples from the top of my head:
'jise sanam kabhii samjha, kabhi Khuda jaana'
In this misra, it is the play on 'sanam' in both its meanings. Replace
'sanam' with another word for mehboob, and you lose the punch.
merii duaa yihii hai ki us but kii Khair ho
jis ke tufail se mujhe mera Khuda milaa
Here the contradiction is endearing. Finding god as a result of 'sanam-
aashnaii'! (Finding god in the love of a person is not an uncommon
theme in suufi poetry, but in this she'r the juxtaposition of love of
a 'but' and finding Khuda is what gives it the punch).
kaun kaafir yaqiin karta hai
laakh yeh but kaheN Khuda haiN ham!
hasiinoN ka apne aap ko Khuda samjhna is a not an uncommon expression,
lekin 'butoN ka apne aap ko Khuda samjhna' takes it to a different
level.
mere sanam ka kisii ko nishaaN nahiiN ma'aluum
Khuda ka naam sunaa hai, makaaN nahiiN ma'aluum
butoN ke ishaq meN khoya gaya huuN varna ai aKhtar
Khuda shahid hai maiN aksar Khuda ko yaad karta huuN!
'butoN ka ishaq meN khona' here may simply imply losing oneself in the
love of a worldly person to the exclusion of love for almighty, but,
IMO, 'butoN ke isahq meN khona' in this misra also has a tangential
allusion to kaafir ho jaana! Try the first misra as:
hasiinoN ke ishaq meN kho gaya huuN varna ai aKhtar
and the she'r becomes insipid.
And finally:
butoN ne luuT lii saari Khudaaii
Khuda ke ghar meN ab rakkha hii kyaa hai
In any case, there is always room for divergent views in poetry in
general and urdu poetry in particular.
Best,
Vijay
Baad-e-Siyaah
> Kala sahib,
>
> It's not contradictory -- you can either have single-minded devotion
> for God, or you can have (the same intensity of) single-minded
> devotion for some other (i.e., sanam). If you really are a True
> Lover, then you can only be "there" (udhar ke) or "here" (idhar ke).
>
> This half-hearted business of trying to ride in two boats at one time
> (trying for visaal with sanam as well as attaining Khuda) is simply
> not done by True Devotees. Not in Bhakti or Sufi tradition. Not even
> in real life. I urge you not to try :-)
>
> -UVR.
UVR Saahib,
at the risk of called 'baal ki khaal nikaalnaa' I would add:
baat dar-asal itnii sii hai ke agar is she'r ko halke phulke meN liya
jaaye to koii harz nahii hai, lekin aaj ki samajh aur aaj ke 'value
system' ki taraazuu par yeh theek nahii lagtaa. 'ishq' ek nihaayat hi
khuubsuurat ehsaas hai and it hurts nobody (unless you are already
hitched to someone yaa phir us haseenaa ke kai aur diwaane hoN). meraa
bas itnaa hi kahnaa hai ke ishq kiye jaa aur bhalaai kiye jaa to Khuda
kyuN nahii milegaa?
aadaab arz hai
UVR
>
> UVR Saahib,
>
> at the risk of called 'baal ki khaal nikaalnaa' I would add:
>
> baat dar-asal itnii sii hai ke agar is she'r ko halke phulke meN liya
> jaaye to koii harz nahii hai, lekin aaj ki samajh aur aaj ke 'value
> system' ki taraazuu par yeh theek nahii lagtaa. 'ishq' ek nihaayat hi
> khuubsuurat ehsaas hai and it hurts nobody (unless you are already
> hitched to someone yaa phir us haseenaa ke kai aur diwaane hoN). meraa
> bas itnaa hi kahnaa hai ke ishq kiye jaa aur bhalaai kiye jaa to Khuda
> kyuN nahii milegaa?
>
> aadaab arz hai
Kala saahib,
"[It] hurts nobody?" Seriously?
to aap yeh kah rahe haiN k yeh jo apne tamaam sh'ora ki shaa'iri ke,
tamaam afsaana.nigaaroN ke afsaanoN ke, aur tamaam duniyaa ki taareeKh
ke "'aashiq-logaaN" haiN, inhoN ne 'ishq naheeN kiyaa, jhak maari
hai. :-)
janaab, 'ishq naam hi doosra hai "hurt" kaa. kabhi kar ke dekhiye :-)
-UVR.
Baad-e-Siyaah
>
> to aap yeh kah rahe haiN k yeh jo apne tamaam sh'ora ki shaa'iri ke,
> tamaam afsaana.nigaaroN ke afsaanoN ke, aur tamaam duniyaa ki taareeKh
> ke "'aashiq-logaaN" haiN, inhoN ne 'ishq naheeN kiyaa, jhak maari
> hai. :-)
>
> janaab, 'ishq naam hi doosra hai "hurt" kaa. kabhi kar ke dekhiye :-)
>
> -UVR.
UVR sahib
in sabhi saahebaan ne chahe jhak maari ho, mane bhi ishq kiyaa aur be-
had Khushnumaa ehsaas se guzraa, yaa yuN kaheN ke Khudaa mil gayaa.
Once I went to Kedarnath temple on my sister's insistence. I did not
regret it. Kedarnath involves some arduous trek (18 Km and climb of
approx 6000 ft) through some of the most breathtaking landscapes in
India. After about 8-10 hours trek people get awfully tired, hunt for
a place to stay overnight; next morning they get up early, get in the
long queue at the temple have darshan and hurry to get down to base at
Gaurikund. Since I wasn’t too keen to have darshan I had enough free
time to explore the place. While my gang was in queue, I sat on a rock
near the temple and closed my eyes; enlightenment came quickly, like
Buddha it occurred to me that the philosophy behind constructing the
temple here was merely to pull people from their hum drum life and
give them a glimpse of the proximity of God. The pristine waters of
Madakini, roar of foaming river and the rising snow capped cliffs all
around the temple overwhelms you. The chilled clean air takes you into
a trance, a sense of transcendental calm percolates into your body and
soul. I realized if this is not the proximity of God then what else
is?
Oblivious to this bonanza, multitudes were in a frenzy to get into the
temple, quarrelling, cursing everything and having done that rushing
down the trek to reach Gaurikund quickly. In their completely
misplaced faith they were missing out on nature’s most extraordinary
gift.
Kahne ka matlab itna hi hai ke Khudaa koii aur cheez nahi hai sirf
aisaa hi koii ‘ehsaas’ hai ‘anubhuuti’ hai……..
UVR
Thank you for relating your experience and allowing us a peek, however
fleeting, into your thoughts. I just have one simple question -- when
you were sitting there, in a meditative trance, experiencing
enlightenment, were you focused on "God PLUS (non-God) beloved" or
only one of those?
The point I was making earlier is that in order to attain any
"goal" (be it 'God' or the summit of Mt. Everest), it is important to
be in single-minded pursuit of that thing and that thing alone. No
distractions allowed, for they will take away from the attainment of
said goal.
As for 'ishq not hurting anyone -- again, the longing for a
"thing" (be it God or the summit of Mt. Everest), if fervent enough,
creates a certain degree of 'pain'. There is a pleasure in that pain,
sure, but pain it definitely is, make no mistake. Being in 'ishq
"hurts" the 'aashiq like nothing else does; being in 'ishq gives the
'aashiq pleasure like nothing else does. It's the biggest oxymoron in
the history of mankind.
-UVR.
Naseer
Naseer