Two Poems
Afzal A. Khan
Some years back, the following two poems appeared in an
Indian (Urdu) magazine. I don't know if these have been
posted on ALUP before. Even if they have, I believe they
are worth a second read (a la "qand-e-mukarrar") :
First Poem : By Ahmed Faraaz
DOSTI KA HAATH
(Hindostani DostoN ke Naam)
Guzar gaye kayee mausam, kayee ruteN badleeN
Udaas tum bhi ho yaaro, udaas hum bhi haiN
Faqat tumhi ko naheeN ranj-e-chaak~daamaani
Jo sach kahooN to dareeda~libaas hum bhi haiN
Tumhaare baam ki sham'eN bhi taabnaak naheeN
Mire falak ke sitaare bhi zard zard se haiN
Tumhaare aaina~KHaane bhi zang~aalooda
Mire suraahi-o-saaGhar bhi gard~gard se haiN
Na tum ko apne KHad-o-KHaal hi nazar aayeN
Na maiN yeh dekh sakooN jaam men bhara kya hai
BasaaratoN pe do~jaale paRe haiN donoN ke
Samajh men kuchh naheeN aata ke maajra kya hai
TumheN bhi zid hai ke rasm-e-sitam rahe jaari
HameN bhi naaz ke jaur-o-jafa ke 'aadi haiN
TumheN bhi z'om ke Mahabhaarata laRi tum ne
HameN bhi faKHr ke hum Karbala ke 'aadi haiN
Na sarv men woh GHuroor-e-kasheeda~qaamati hai
Na qumriyooN ki udaasi men kuchh kami aayee
Na khil sake kisi jaanib mohabbatoN ke gulaab
Na shaaKH-e-amn liye koi faaKHta aayee
Sitam to yeh hai ke donoN ke murGH~zaaroN men
Hawaaye~fitna-o-boo-e-fisaad aati hai
Alam to yeh hai ke donoN ko wehm hai ke bahaar
'Adoo ke KHooN men nahaane ke b'ad aayee hai
So ab yeh haal huwa is darind'gi ke sabab
Tumhaare paaoN salaamat rahe na haath mire
Na jeet jeet tukhaari, na haar haar miree
Na saath koi tumhaare, na saath koi mire
Hamaare shehroN ki majboor-o-be~nawa maKHlooq
Dabee huwi hai dukhoN ke hazaar DheroN men
Ab in ki teera~naseebi charaaGH chaahti hai
Jo log nisf sadee tak rahe andheroN men
CharaaGH jin se mohabbat ki raushni phaile
CharaaGH jin se diloN ke dayaar raushan hoN
CharaaGH jin se zia amn-o-aashti ki mile
CharaaGH jin se diye be~shumaar raushan hoN
Tumhaare des men aaya hooN dosto, ab ke
Na saaz-o-naGHma ki mehfil na shaa'iri ke liye
Agar tumhaari ana hi ka hai sawaal to phir
Chalo maiN haath baRhaata hooN dosti ke liye
Second Poem : By 'Ali Sardar J'aafri
AHMED FARAAZ KE NAAM
(Ahmed Faraaz ki Nazm "Dosti Ka Haath" ke jawaab men)
Tumhaara haath baRha hai jo dosti ke liye
Mire liye hai hai woh ik yaar-e-GHam~gusaar ka haath
Woh haath shaaKH-e-gul-e-gulshan-e-tamanna hai
Mahek raha hai mire haath men bahaar ka haath
KHuda kare ke salaamat raheN yeh haath apne
'Ata huwe haiN jo zulfeN saNwaarne ke liye
Zameen se naqsh mitaane ko zulm-o-nafrat ke
Falak se chaand sitaare utaarne ke liye
Zameen-e-Pak hamaare jigar ka tukRa hai
Hamen 'azeez hai Dehli-o-Lakhnaoo ki tarah
Tumhaare lehje men meri nawa ke lehja hai
Tumhaara dil hai haseeN meri aarzoo ki tarah
KareN yeh 'ahd ke auzaar-e-jang haiN jitne
InheN miTaana hai aur KHaak men milaana hai
Karen yeh 'ahd ke arbaab-e-jang haiN jitne
UnheN sharaafat-o-insaaniyat sikhaana hai
JiyeN tamaam haseenaan-e-KHaibar-o-Lahore
JiyeN tamaam jawaanaan-e-jannat-e-Kashmeer
Ho lab pe naGHma-e-mehr-o-wafa ki taabaani
Kitaab-e-dil pe faqat harf-e-'ishq ho tehreer
Tum aao gulshan-e-Lahore se kafan bar~dosh
Hum aayeN subh-e-Banaras ki raushni le kar
Himaaliya ki haawaoN ki taazgi le kar
Phir is ke b'ad yeh poochheN ke kaun dushman hai ?
I have posted these poems as an offering to the twin celebrations
of Eid and Diwaali.
Afzal
Vijay
Afzal sahib, in do Khuubsuurat nazmoN ko yahhaN chaspaaN karne ke liie,
aap kaa bohat bohat, boaht shukriia!!
Vijay
Naseer
muHtaram Afzal Sahib awr tamaam ALUP-nagar ke makiino!
aap sab ko merii jaanib se 'iid mubaarak awr diivaalii kii badhaaii.
Afzal Sahib, dostii kii nazmeN chaspaaN karne par aap kaa bahut bahut
shukriyaa. to liijiye kuchh meri iNglistaan/Paakistaan vaaloN kii taraf
se..
Karishan Kanahiyyaa (Hafiiz jaalandharii) (Please correct any
typing/vazn errors)
ai dekhne vaalo
is Husn ko dekho
is raaz ko samjho
yih naqsh-i-KHayaalii
yih fikrat-i-'aalii
yih paikar-i-tanviir
yih karishan kii tasviir
ma'nii hai kih suurat
san'at hai kih fitrat
zaahir hai kih mastuur
nazdiik hai yaa duur
yih naar hai yaa nuur
............................................
dunyaa se niraalaa
yih baaNsurii vaalaa
gokal(?) kaa gavaalaa
hai saHar kih i'jaaz
khultaa hii nahiiN raaz
kyaa shaan hai wa_llaah
kyaa aan hai wa_llaah
Hairaan huuN kyaa hai
ik shaab-i-KHudaa hai
but KHaane ke andar
KHud Husn kaa but-gar
but bab gayaa aa kar
........................................
do tarfah nazaare
yaad aa gae saaraa
jamnaa ke kinaare
sabze kaa lahaknaa
phuuloN kaa mahaknaa
ghaNghor ghaTaaeN
sar-mast havaaeN
ma'suu umangeN
ulfat kii tarangeN
vuh gopiyoN ke saath
haathoN meN diye haath
raqaaN huaa barijnaath
.......................................
baNsii meN jo lai hai
nashshah hai nah mai hai
kuchh awr hii shai hai
ik ruuH hai raqsaaN
ik kaif hai larzaaN
ik 'aql hai mai nosh
ik hish hai mad-hosh
ik KHandah hai sayyaal
ik giryah hai KHush-Haal
ik 'ishq hai ma'zuur (maGhruur?)
ik Husn hai majbuur
ik saHr hai masHuur
........................................
daryaa meN tanhaa
laachaar hai karishnaa
aa shyaam idhar aa
sab ahl-i-KHusuumat
haiN dar pai-i-'izzat
yih raaj dulaare
buzdil hue saare
pardah nah ho taaraaj
be-kas kii rahe laaj
aa jaa mere kaale
bhaarat ke ujaale
daaman meN chchupaa le
...........................................
vuh ho gaii an ban
vuh garm huaa ran
Ghaalib hai daryodhan
vuh aa gae jagdiish
vuh miT gaii tashviish
arjun ko bulaayaa
updesh sunaayaa
'am-zaad kaa Gham kyaa
ustaad kaa Gham kyaa
lo ho gaii tadbiir
lo ban gaii taqdiir
lo chal gaii shamshiir
.........................................
siirat hai 'aduu-soz
suurat nazar-afroz
dil kaifiyyat-andoz
Ghusse meN jo aa jaae
bijlii hii gir jaae
awr lutf par aae
to ghar bhii luTaae
pariyoN me hai gul-faam
raadhaa ke liye shyaam
balraam kaa bhayyaa
mathuraa kaa basayyaa
bindraa meN kanahiyyaa
..............................................
ban ho gae veeraaN
barbaad gulistaaN
sakhiyaaN haiN pareshaaN
jamnaa kaa kinaaraa
sunsaan hai saaraa
tufaan haiN KHaamosh
mojoN meN nahiiN josh
lau tujh se lagii hai
hasrat hii yahii hai
ai hind ke raajaa
ik baar phir aa jaa
dukh dard miTaa jaa
...............................................
abr awr havaa se
bulbul kii sadaa se
phuuloN kii ziyaa se
jaduu-asarii gum
shoriidah-sarii gum
haaaN terii judaaii
mathuraa ko nah bhaaii
tuu aae to shaan aae
tuu aae to jaan aae
aanaa nah akele
hoN saath vuh mele
sakhiyoN ke jhamele
'iid kaa chaaNd....to follow
Naseer
UVR
> muHtaram Afzal Sahib awr tamaam ALUP-nagar ke makiino!
>
> aap sab ko merii jaanib se 'iid mubaarak awr diivaalii kii badhaaii.
aap ko bhii, Naseer saahib, diwaali mubaarak aur 'eid ki haardik
shubhkaamnaayeN :-)
Corrections (since you asked :-D) are at the end of the post. Hope
they help.
-UVR.
. "Karishan Kanahiyyaa" --> krishn kanhaiyaa
. yih karishan kii tasviir --> yeh krishn kii tasveer
. gokal(?) kaa gavaalaa --> gokul kaa gu_aalaa
"Gokul" is the name of the place where Krishna is said
to have spent his early childhood. gu'aalaa/go'aalaa
is another (less than faseeh, IMO) pronunciation of the
word 'gwaalaa' (cowherd), but the meter of this poem
indicates Hafeez has used this over 'gwaalaa'.
. hai saHar kih i'jaaz: siHr (magic)
. ik shaab-i-Khudaa hai: shaan-e-Khudaa (typo)
. Khud bab gayaa aaKhir: ban gayaa (typo)
. yaad aa gae saaraa: saare
. ghaNghor ghaTaaeN: ghan-ghor
. ma'suu umaNgeN: ma'asoom ?
. raqaaN huaa barijnaath: raqsaaN huaa brij-naath
. ik hish hai mad-hosh: ik hosh hai
. ik 'ishq hai ma'zuur (maGhruur?): ma'azoor, prob'ly
. daryaa meN tanhaa: a word is missing between meN and tanhaa
. laachaar hai karishnaa: krishnaa
"krishnaa" here is not a reference to Shyam Mohan, but
rather to Draupadi (the word 'draupadi' simply means
simply means "daughter of Drupada"; krishnaa was her
given name -- as she was supposedly 'saa.Nvali'). The
scene being described here is the Mahabharata episode
of the 'denuding of Draupadi' (cheer-haran).
. Ghaalib hai daryodhan: the meter is all wrong here; please
check the text again.
. bijlii hii gir jaae: probably "bijlii hii sii gir jaae"
. bindraa meN kanahiyyaa: kanhaiyaa
"bindraa" = bindraaban = brindavan
Naseer
UVR wrote:
> On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, "Naseer" <qures...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > muHtaram Afzal Sahib awr tamaam ALUP-nagar ke makiino!
> >
> > aap sab ko merii jaanib se 'iid mubaarak awr diivaalii kii badhaaii.
>
> aap ko bhii, Naseer saahib, diwaali mubaarak aur 'eid ki haardik
> shubhkaamnaayeN :-)
>
> Corrections (since you asked :-D) are at the end of the post. Hope
> they help.
>
>>
UVR Sahib, aadaab!
nek tamannaaoN kaa bahut bahut shukriya. saath he nazm kii tasHiiH awr
tashriiH kaa bhii.
aap ne yih nahiiN likhaa kih Hafiiz Jaalandharii kii yih nazm aap ko
pasand bhii aaii hai yaa kih nahiiN.
"krishn", "gwaalaa/gu'aalaa", "brij-naath" va-Ghairah ke hindii hijjoN
kaa mujhe 'ilm thaa lekin 'ilm-i-'aruuz se naa-balad hone kii binaa par
aap ko merii GhalatiyaaN durust karne kii zaHmat uThaanaa paRii. maziid
bar aaN, maiN samajhtaa thaa kih Urdu meN "murakkab Huruuf" (sivaae ek
do alfaaz ke)kii gunjaaish nahiiN hai. lagtaa hai kih kam az kam Hafiiz
ne is rivaayat ke bar 'aks likhaa hai.
"daryaa meN tanhaa: a word is missing between meN and tanhaa".
merii kitaab meN to yahii likhaa hai.
"Ghaalib hai daryodhan: the meter is all wrong here; please check the
text again".
ek baar phir...kitaab meN aisaa hii likhaa hai. yodhan=battle; but I
don't know what daryodhan is. Could it be var-yodhan?
"bijlii hii gir jaae: probably "bijlii hii sii gir jaae"
shaayad merii kitaab meN Ghalat likhaa ho.
Naseer
Naseer
'iid kaa chaaNd
jiitii raho, magar mujhe aataa nahiiN nazar
beTii! kahaaN hai chaaNd? mujhe bhii dikhaa kidhar
afsos ab nigaah bhii kamzor ho gaii
ni'mat Khudaa ne dii thii buRhaape meN kho gaii
miinaar-i-Khaanqaah ke uupar kahaaN!kahaaN?
kuchh bhii nahiiN koii bhii nahiiN hai vahaaN, kahaaN?
haaN DaaliyoN ke biich meN ho gaa vahiiN kahiiN
vuh hai jahaaN par abr kii surKHii kahiiN kahiiN
ab ho chukii hai 'umr bhii nau aur saaTh saal
guzre tire KHusar ko bhii guzre haiN aaTh saal
naGhme KHushii ke aur vuh taraane guzar gae
vuh din guzar gae vuh zamaane guzar gae
terii taraH se maiN bhii kabhii haaN javaan thii
vuh din bhale the aur bhalii un kii shaan thii
har ik se pahle dekhtii thii maiN hilaal-i-'iid
das biis din se rahtaa thaa har dam Khayaal-i-'iid
yih un dinoN kii baat hai vuh baat ab kahaaN
vuh shaam-o-subH aur vuh din raat ab kahaaN
ab din tumhaare, vaqt tumhaaraa, tumhaarii 'iid
biTii tumhaarii 'iid se hai ab hamaarii 'iid
hai laakh laakh shukr KHudaa-i-kariim kaa
kartii huuN roz vird kalaam-i-Hakiim kaa
'ainak baGhair ma'nii-o-tafsiir par magar
afsos hai kih merii Thahartii nahiiN nazar
sadqe kahaaN hai chaaNd? mujhe bhii zara dikhaa
maiN bhii to chaaNd dekh luuN 'ainak mirii uThaa
haaN haaN vuh hai vuh taar saa, beshak vahii to hai
mujh ko nazar nah aayaa thaa ab tak, vahii to hai
sad shukr chaaNd dekh liyaa, aa du'aa kareN
awr chal ke phir fariizah-i-maGhrib adaa kareN
yaarab tire Huzuur meN Haazir KhaRii huuN maiN
'aasii, gunaah-gaar to beshak baRii huuN maiN
lekin mire gunaah-o-KHataa par nigah nah kar
yaa rab tuu apnii shaan-i-kariimii pih rakh nazar
allaah mere chaaNd kii, nuur-i-nazar kii KHair
mere kamaauu, mere musaafir pisar kii Khair
allaah! mujh ko ghar kaa ujaalaa nasiib ho
beTaa bahuu ko aur mujhe potaa nasiib ho
be-kas ke 'ijz ko mile rutbah qabuul kaa
sun le mirii du'aaoN ko sadqa rasuul kaa
Hafiiz Jaalandharii 1924
UVR
>
> nek tamannaaoN kaa bahut bahut shukriya. saath he nazm kii tasHiiH awr
> tashriiH kaa bhii.
> aap ne yih nahiiN likhaa kih Hafiiz Jaalandharii kii yih nazm aap ko
> pasand bhii aaii hai yaa kih nahiiN.
>
> "krishn", "gwaalaa/gu'aalaa", "brij-naath" va-Ghairah ke hindii hijjoN
> kaa mujhe 'ilm thaa lekin 'ilm-i-'aruuz se naa-balad hone kii binaa par
> aap ko merii GhalatiyaaN durust karne kii zaHmat uThaanaa paRii. maziid
> bar aaN, maiN samajhtaa thaa kih Urdu meN "murakkab Huruuf" (sivaae ek
> do alfaaz ke)kii gunjaaish nahiiN hai. lagtaa hai kih kam az kam Hafiiz
> ne is rivaayat ke bar 'aks likhaa hai.
>
> "daryaa meN tanhaa: a word is missing between meN and tanhaa".
> merii kitaab meN to yahii likhaa hai.
>
> "Ghaalib hai daryodhan: the meter is all wrong here; please check the
> text again".
> ek baar phir...kitaab meN aisaa hii likhaa hai. yodhan=battle; but I
> don't know what daryodhan is. Could it be var-yodhan?
>
> "bijlii hii gir jaae: probably "bijlii hii sii gir jaae"
> shaayad merii kitaab meN Ghalat likhaa ho.
>
> Naseer
Naseer saahib,
lafz 'duryodhan' ki tafseel aage hai. pahle "daryaa meN tanhaa",
"Ghaalib hai duryodhan" aur "bijlii hii gir jaae" ke muta'alliq sirf
itnaa 'arz karnaa chaahooNgaa k (is nazm ki behr ke lihaaz se) yeh
teenoN misr'e Khaarij az bahr haiN. ho saktaa hai "daryaa" dar asl
"daryaab" (ba ma'ani "sea" [of people]) ho, kyoN k 'daryaab' se, aur
"bijlee hi si gir jaaye" yaa "bijli si hi gir jaaye" (take your pick)
kahne se, bahr ki samasyaa hal ho jaati hai. magar lafz 'duryodhan' to
kisi bhi haal meN is behr meN us maqaam par "fit" naheeN hotaa nazar
aataa jahaaN aap ki kitaab meN use darj kiyaa gayaa hai -- ho saktaa
hai Hafiz ne is lafz kaa Ghair faseeH talaffuz ist'emaal kiyaa ho aur
ise "durodhan" bartaa ho. Who knows?
Khair, duryodhan: Duryodhana, the eldest son of Dhritarashtra, was in
some ways the chief "architect" of the 'terrible' Battle of
Kurukshetra. As for his role in the 'denudation of Draupadi' episode,
Duryodhana challenges Yudhishthira to a game of dice (juaa) knowing
that he has his maternal uncle, the crafty Shakuni, on his side.
Yudhishthira naturally loses every single one of his possessions,
including, at the end of it all, his wife, Draupadi (we shall refrain
from discussing the moral aspect of this here on ALUP). Whereupon,
Duryodhana invites Draupadi (his bhaabi) to sit in his lap -- while all
the family elders look on with a kind of stupefied disbelief -- this
leads to some rather interesting things later on during/after the war.
Anyway, since Draupadi refuses to do his bidding, Duryodhana orders his
immediately younger brother, Duhshasana (duh-shaasana) to forcibly
divest her of her sari (cheera = saari; hence cheeraharan =
denudation). Hope this helps.
How did I like Hafeez's poem? I applaud his effort greatly, but I'm
afraid I was not too impressed by it. I'm not saying it was an easy
effort on his part or a trivial poem to have created, but purely from
the standpoint of a "peruser of his poem", I was not too moved.
krishna kanhaiyya par kahee gayee is se kaheeN ziyaada dilpazeer aur
dil-aavez nazmeN maiNne sun/paRh rakhi haiN -- not necessarily in Urdu,
though, so they're probably not relevant to ALUP.
-UVR.
Naseer
UVR Sahub, aadaab 'arz hai!
Thank you for providing the background, in such detail, for duryodhan.
I appreciate this very much.
> How did I like Hafeez's poem? I applaud his effort greatly, but I'm
> afraid I was not too impressed by it. I'm not saying it was an easy
> effort on his part or a trivial poem to have created, but purely from
> the standpoint of a "peruser of his poem", I was not too moved.
> krishna kanhaiyya par kahee gayee is se kaheeN ziyaada dilpazeer aur
> dil-aavez nazmeN maiNne sun/paRh rakhi haiN -- not necessarily in Urdu,
> though, so they're probably not relevant to ALUP.
This is almost a challenge for Urdu-daans to search for a
"dil-paziir/dil-aavez" poem on this topic! I shall not take up the
challenge since in the meagre volume of Urdu poetry that I have read,
I have not come across anything good, bad or indifferent.
I wrote..." maziid bar aaN, maiN samajhtaa thaa kih Urdu meN "murakkab
Huruuf" (sivaae ek do alfaaz ke)kii gunjaaish nahiiN hai. lagtaa hai
kih kam az kam Hafiiz
ne is rivaayat ke bar 'aks likhaa hai".
I know we have had lengthy discussion on this topic in one of the
threads. Even then, I came away with the thought that "brahman" etc was
not acceptable in Urdu versification and only "barhaman" etc was
possible. So, I repeat my question. Did Hafiiz go out of his way to
"accomodate" the true pronunciation?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Vijay
Here is a 'dil paziir' effort in Urdu. Wonder if people can guess the
poet? I will reveal poet's name in a day or two:
ik dast-sh'naash ne mujh se kaha, tire haath kii rekhaaeN haiN ajab
tere paaoN anokhi beRi hai, tire gale meN maalaaeN haiN ajab
tere pyaar ke kitne qisse haiN, tirii zaat ke kitne hisse haiN
kahiiN raam hai tuu, kahiiN raavan hai, terii priit* kii charchaaeN
haiN ajab
kabhii nadyaa jaise bol kahe, kabhii saagar jaise shor kare
tera bhed bhara lehja na khule, terii saari kaviitaaeN haiN ajab
kaii tujh ko duniia daar kaheN, kaii log tujhe avtaar kaheN
tera jiivan naaTak jaisa hai, tere naam kii liilaaeN haiN ajab
kabhii priitam ras chhiRkaae tuu, kabhii birha ras tapkaae tuu**
kabhii zehar hai tuu, kabhii amrit hai, tere Dhyaan kii giitaaeN haiN
ajab
koii gopii tujh ko jaan kahe, koii devi tujh par maan kare
tuu krishan na shaam magar phir bhii, terii rasiia raaDhaaeN haiN ajab
tuu ik matwaala paNchhi hai, is shaakh uRe, us baag phire
kyaa Thaur Thikaana ho teraa, tere man kii dunyiaaeN haiN ajab
kabhi os se pyaas bujhaee tuu, kahiiN darya ko Thukraae tuu
tera haNsta chehra aur lage, terii aaNkhoN ki barkhaaeN haiN ajab
tuu baNjaara yaa jogii hai, tuu kavii hai yaa koii rogii hai
tuu gyaani hai, yaa muurakh hai, tere baare meN sab raaeN haiN ajab
* In the book, this word is written 'piit'. I have guessed it as
'priit'.
** This whole line is in the book as:
kabhii priitam ka ras chhiRkkae tuu kabhii birhaa bas tapkaae tuu
Again I have guessed the corrections.
This is one of my favorite poems where Hindi words are used so
effectively. Certainly equal to:
'iqbal baRa updeshak hai, man baatoN meN moh leta hai'.
Anyways, let's see if anyone can guess the poet. Those who 'know' the
poet, please give 'guessers' a chance.
Regards,
Vijay
Naseer
Vijay wrote:
> Here is a 'dil paziir' effort in Urdu. Wonder if people can guess the
> poet? I will reveal poet's name in a day or two:
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
I liked the poem very much but I have no idea as to who the poet may
be. Is it "ibn-i-inshaa"?
> ik dast-sh'naash ne mujh se kaha, tire haath kii rekhaaeN haiN ajab
> tere paaoN anokhi beRi hai, tire gale meN maalaaeN haiN ajab
I think there is a typo in the first line..."dast-shinaas"?
> tere pyaar ke kitne qisse haiN, tirii zaat ke kitne hisse haiN
> kahiiN raam hai tuu, kahiiN raavan hai, terii priit* kii charchaaeN
> haiN ajab
Sometimes, priit is written "piit". But you'll be best judge to see if
"piit" was in "vazn"or not.
> kabhii priitam ras chhiRkaae tuu, kabhii birha ras tapkaae tuu**
> kabhii zehar hai tuu, kabhii amrit hai, tere Dhyaan kii giitaaeN haiN
> ajab
I believe in place of "ras", the word may have been "bis=zahr=poison".
If it is not such a naive question, what is "giitaaeN"?
> koii gopii tujh ko jaan kahe, koii devi tujh par maan kare
> tuu krishan na shaam magar phir bhii, terii rasiia raaDhaaeN haiN ajab
raadhaaeN instead of raaDhaaeN?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Naseer
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
My brain was out of gear when I asked the "naive" question! Of course
it is "giitaa" the holy book.
Naseer
Vijay
Naseer wrote:
> Vijay wrote:
>
> > Here is a 'dil paziir' effort in Urdu. Wonder if people can guess the
> > poet? I will reveal poet's name in a day or two:
>
> Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
>
> I liked the poem very much but I have no idea as to who the poet may
> be. Is it "ibn-i-inshaa"?
No Nasser Sahib. A good guess nevertheless!
>
> > ik dast-sh'naash ne mujh se kaha, tire haath kii rekhaaeN haiN ajab
> > tere paaoN anokhi beRi hai, tire gale meN maalaaeN haiN ajab
>
> I think there is a typo in the first line..."dast-shinaas"?
I thought both 'sh'naash' and shinaash are correct, same as 'nishaat'
and 'n'shaat'.
>
> > tere pyaar ke kitne qisse haiN, tirii zaat ke kitne hisse haiN
> > kahiiN raam hai tuu, kahiiN raavan hai, terii priit* kii charchaaeN
> > haiN ajab
>
> Sometimes, priit is written "piit". But you'll be best judge to see if
> "piit" was in "vazn"or not.
Thnks. For vaz'n. IMO, both 'piit' and 'priit' are correct but here,
'piit' goes better with the language in the rest of the poem. So thanks
for correcting the 'correction'.
>
> > kabhii priitam ras chhiRkaae tuu, kabhii birha ras tapkaae tuu**
> > kabhii zehar hai tuu, kabhii amrit hai, tere Dhyaan kii giitaaeN haiN
> > ajab
>
> I believe in place of "ras", the word may have been "bis=zahr=poison".
> If it is not such a naive question, what is "giitaaeN"?
Thnaks once again. Because of lack of diacritical marks, I missed this
completely. Of course, it is 'bis'. But I feel that in the original
text 'ka' in 'priitam ka ras' is redundant. And it should be 'dhyaan'.
(And you got 'giitaaeN'.)
>
> > koii gopii tujh ko jaan kahe, koii devi tujh par maan kare
> > tuu krishan na shaam magar phir bhii, terii rasiia raaDhaaeN haiN ajab
>
> raadhaaeN instead of raaDhaaeN?
Correct again.
>
> KHair-andesh,
> Naseer
So another couple of days for people to guess or tell the poet's name.
I will otherwise declare it here on Sunday evening GMT.
Regards,
Vijay Kumar
Zoya
aadaab,
yeh donoN nazmeN yahaaN post karne kaa bahut bahut shukriyah!
Ali Sardar Jafri kii nazm to mere paas thii, magar Faraz kii is nazm ko
maiN kaafii dinoN se DhuuND rahii thii. kuChh arsa pehle mujhe ek sahib
kaa email bhii aaya tha, voh bhii is nazm kii talaash meiN the aur
unheiN yaqiin thaa k yeh mere paas zaruur hogii! :)
Vijay Sahib,
aap ne bhii bahut hii umdah ghazal post kii hai, aur yeh mere liye
nayii bhii hai! What a treat! tah-e-dil se shukriyah!
maiN kal shaam ko soch rahii thii k aap ko do tiin baateN likhuuN,
lekin Naseer Sahib ne voh sab baateN pehle hii keh diiN haiN! :) I too
think priit --> piit and second ras --> bis.
Naseer Sahib,
aap yaqiin nahiiN kareNge, maiN bhii Ibn-e-Inshaa hii guess karne
vaalii thii!! is ghazal ko paRhte paRhte mere zehn meiN bhii yahii naam
aaya tha. lekin Vijay Sahib keh rahe haiN k yeh sahiih nahiiN hai, to
phir hameN kuChh aur naam sochne paReNge!! What is your second guess?!
Regards to everyone,
___________Zoya
Vijay
Zoya Sahiba: I will give you a hint! Of all the poeple who were going
to 'guess', I thought youe were the most likely to get it. Because at
one point or another, you have declared (or at least implied) this to
be your favorite poet!!
Good luck guessing!
Vijay
Zoya
> Zoya Sahiba: I will give you a hint! Of all the poeple who were going
> to 'guess', I thought youe were the most likely to get it. Because at
> one point or another, you have declared (or at least implied) this to
> be your favorite poet!!
>
> Good luck guessing!
>
> Vijay
Vijay Sahib, Is it Nasir Kazmi? Or Ahmad Faraz? These two names did
come to my mind even without your hint. But just like Naseer Sahib,
Ibn-e-Insha was my first choice.
The only other guess I would try remotely is Qateel Shifai.
If it is none of these three, then I give up!! :)
_________Zoya
Naseer
Zoya wrote:
Vijay Sahib, subH ba-Khair!
I have a feeling that the answer to your question may not be as
straight forward as expected.
Could it be "Jon Elia"? I think this is one of many ways his name seems
to be spelt. A bit like your experimentation with my name!
Naseer
vij...@gmail.com
Ahmed F'raaz it is, Zoya sahiba. It is from his 'Kh(w)aab-e-gul
priishaaN hai'. Well done.
Vijay
>
> _________Zoya
Naseer
vij...@gmail.com wrote:
> Zoya wrote:
>>
> > Vijay Sahib, Is it Nasir Kazmi? Or Ahmad Faraz? These two names did
> > come to my mind even without your hint. But just like Naseer Sahib,
> > Ibn-e-Insha was my first choice.
> >
> > The only other guess I would try remotely is Qateel Shifai.
> >
> > If it is none of these three, then I give up!! :)
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
lagtaa hai kih agar aap haqiiqii zindagii meN ek "judge" hote to
shaayad naa-kaam hote! Zoya Sahiba ne aap ko sawaal kaa SaHiiH jawaab
nahiiN diyaa balkih vuh aap se puuchh rahii thiiN kih " Is it Nasir
Kazmi? Or Ahmad Faraz?"....The only other guess I would try remotely is
Qateel Shifai"!
aap insaaf kiijiye! kyaa yih aap ke sawaal kaa jawaab hai?
KHair chhoRiye. Zoya Sahiba hamaarii bahin haiN awr bahinoN ke liye ham
"dhaaNdlii" ko bhii insaaf maan_ne ke liye tayyaar hiN ba-shartekih is
meN faaidah hamaari kisii bahin kaa ho!
mazaaq bar-taraf, maiN shaayad saHiiH jawaab kabhii nah de paataa. is
liye bihtar hai kih maiN KHaamoshii iKHtiyaar kar luuN.
KHair-Khwaah,
Naseer
Vijay
Naseer Sahib! Thanks for your participation. This thread had started
with an excellent poem of Ahmed F'raaz and then veered a little towards
use of non-urdu words and names in Urdu poetry. I thought it fitting to
bring in F'raaz again to round up the thread. I have long liked this
poem and thought Zoya Sahiba would know this or be able to guess as she
is a fan of F'raaz. Plus, she does tends to read complete works
whenever she 'goes after' a poet. But she could not pin point it
exactly but as she did mention F'raaz's name, I thought it is
appropraite to acknowledge the identity of the poet.
I feel a bit of a spoil sport for providing a non-serious response to
your post that was clearly in a lighter vain.
If I hadn't known the identity of the poet, like you and Zoya sahiba, I
would have guessed Insha first, and perhaps Neeraj second.
Regards,
Vijay
silvateN haiN mere chehre pe to hairat kyoN hai
ziNdgi ne mujhe kucch tum se ziaada pehna
Zoya
> Naseer wrote:
> > KHair chhoRiye. Zoya Sahiba hamaarii bahin haiN awr bahinoN ke liye ham
> > "dhaaNdlii" ko bhii insaaf maan_ne ke liye tayyaar hiN ba-shartekih is
> > meN faaidah hamaari kisii bahin kaa ho!
> >
> > Naseer
Naseer bhai,
mujhe thoRii bahut dhaaNdlii allowed hai!!!! :) ;) Now, don't ask how I
can get away with that, but I usually do!! lol !!!
>
> Naseer Sahib! Thanks for your participation. This thread had started
> with an excellent poem of Ahmed F'raaz and then veered a little towards
> use of non-urdu words and names in Urdu poetry. I thought it fitting to
> bring in F'raaz again to round up the thread. I have long liked this
> poem and thought Zoya Sahiba would know this or be able to guess as she
> is a fan of F'raaz. Plus, she does tends to read complete works
> whenever she 'goes after' a poet. But she could not pin point it
> exactly but as she did mention F'raaz's name, I thought it is
> appropraite to acknowledge the identity of the poet.
>
Vijay Sahib, honestly, I had thought of Faraz even without your hint,
because some of the Hindi words used in this ghazal are typical of
Faraz, and I have read them in his other works too.
I am surprised that I do not remember reading this particular ghazal in
Kuliyat-e-Faraz. I'll have to double check if it is actually there.
However, since I read Urdu script rather slowly, sometimes I get tired
in the middle of a thick book, and then start all over again on a
random page.
Thanks, this has been a great thread!! :)
________Zoya
Vijay
Vijay wrote:
> I feel a bit of a spoil sport for providing a non-serious response to
> your post that was clearly in a lighter vain.
>
Sorry to follow up on my own post. I meant 'non-trivial response'.
Vijay
Naseer
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
A few questions/comments...
1) Why do you write "F'raaz" instead of "Faraaz"?
2) You said, " I thought both 'sh'naash' and shinaash are correct, same
as 'nishaat'
and 'n'shaat' ".
I don't know about the correctness or otherwise of words with the
"apostrophe" but all I was saying was that the word is "dast-shinaas"
with an "s" at the end and not "sh".
3) "silvateN haiN mere chehre pe to hairat kyoN hai
ziNdgi ne mujhe kucch tum se ziaada pehna"
Beautiful! Who is the poet? The idea reminded me of a Qur'anic verse...
Naseer
Vijay
A case of brain fade Naseer Sahib. Of course it is 's' sound at the
end. It is still a chore writing in Roman. I envy the likes of many on
ALUP who have mastered the art. I need to do a lot more proof reading
as whenever I re-read my contributions after I have posted them, I
often cringe at the errors. Perhaps writing first on the note-pad,
proofing a few times and then cutting and pasting is the way to go.
I write F'raaz merely to omit any sound of alif after F, which an 'a'
might denote.
The she'r I quoted is by F'raaz!
Regards,
Vijay
shayad koii Kh(w)aahish roti rehtii hai
mere aNdar baarish hoti rehtii hai
By guess who?:-)
Naseer
Vijay wrote:
> I write F'raaz merely to omit any sound of alif after F, which an 'a'
> might denote.
Vijay Sahib!
janaab-i-'aalii, there IS a "zabar" after "F" in "Faraaz"!
Naseer
Vijay
Naseer Sahib: I am unclear about the pronounciation of words like
F'raaz (j'maal etc.) and how best to represent it in roman. I feel
that if I use an 'a', then it may sound like f+a+r+a+a+z, whereas I
want 'f' and 'r' to be in closer proximity. Same with j'maal, sh'naash
etc. I think it is personal quirk of representing in Roman what I think
is the correct pronounciation to my ear of a word or a name.
It may be better to take this conversation to p.m. as we seem to have
drifted quite a bit away from the original thread.
Regards,
Vijay
Afzal A. Khan
> Naseer wrote:
>>A few questions/comments...
>>
>>1) Why do you write "F'raaz" instead of "Faraaz"?
>>Naseer
>
>
> A case of brain fade Naseer Sahib. Of course it is 's' sound at the
> end. It is still a chore writing in Roman. I envy the likes of many on
> ALUP who have mastered the art. I need to do a lot more proof reading
> as whenever I re-read my contributions after I have posted them, I
> often cringe at the errors. Perhaps writing first on the note-pad,
> proofing a few times and then cutting and pasting is the way to go.
>
> I write F'raaz merely to omit any sound of alif after F, which an 'a'
> might denote.
> Vijay
It is quite possible that Vijay Saheb's mother tongue is Punjabi.
In that case, it is understandable why he omits the first "a",
while writing the poet's name. I recollect that other friends
whose mother tongue seems to be Punjabi like Yogesh Sethi Saheb,
Brijinder Saheb etc. write the word "sawaal" as "swaal". There
have been posts by Vijay Kumar Saheb too where the word has been
spelt as "swaal". But I don't quite know if it is the same
Vijay Kumar Saheb !!
I may be wrong but did I detect even our Naseer Saheb using the
same spelling --> "swaal" on one or two occasions ?
Afzal
Zoya
> Same with sh'naash
> Vijay
Oh dear!! NOT again, Vijay Sahib!! ;) :)
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>
> It is quite possible that Vijay Saheb's mother tongue is Punjabi.
> In that case, it is understandable why he omits the first "a",
> while writing the poet's name. I recollect that other friends
> whose mother tongue seems to be Punjabi like Yogesh Sethi Saheb,
> Brijinder Saheb etc. write the word "sawaal" as "swaal". There
> have been posts by Vijay Kumar Saheb too where the word has been
> spelt as "swaal". But I don't quite know if it is the same
> Vijay Kumar Saheb !!
>
> I may be wrong but did I detect even our Naseer Saheb using the
> same spelling --> "swaal" on one or two occasions ?
>
janaab-i-Afzal Sahib, aadaab!
You may well be right in your supposition. I do remember correcting
Brijinder Sahib's depiction of some Urdu words such as "swaal" in his
"Hadd-e-Fiqr say aagay" thread.
I carried out a search of my name and "swaal/svaal" and nothing came up
except the current post and "Hadd-e-Fiqr say aagay". I am of course not
implying, God forbid, that I am infallible. You do know that I do not
hesitate in admitting the error of my ways at the first opportunity
(for example my typing "tajviizaat" in place of the correct
"tajaaviiz"). Just like Vijay Sahib, I have often found quite
horrendous mistakes in my posts..when they seemed perfectly alright
before pressing the "post" button!
Urdu does not allow initial consonant clusters (except for "kyaa",
"pyaar" etc) and I am consciously aware of this. To this effect, I have
participated in lengthy discussions on ALUP. I am also consciously
aware that the word is "sawaal" and not "swaal" and that it is "Faraaz"
and not "Fraaz".
As a side note, we all know that the TRUE pronunciation of this word is
"su'aal" and NOT "sawaal" but the latter is the accepted version in
Urdu and the former is considered pedantic.
Urdu kaa ek taalib-i-'ilm,
Naseer
Vijay
Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>>
> It is quite possible that Vijay Saheb's mother tongue is Punjabi.
> In that case, it is understandable why he omits the first "a",
> while writing the poet's name.
You are correct Afzal Sahib, my mother tongue is indeed PuNjabi but in
writing f'raaz, s'waal etc. I don't quite omit 'a' but contract it a
little by using the apostrophe. 'a' to me reperesent 'alif' sound and
'aa', the elongated alif. So apostrophe provides for me a sort of
'lesser alif' sound.
I am sure I say f'raaz or s'waal no differently than you and Naseer
sahib but I prefer to write these in Roman without the 'a'.
Let us heed to Zoya sahiba and stop here!!
Vijay
Zoya
>
> You are correct Afzal Sahib, my mother tongue is indeed PuNjabi but in
> writing f'raaz, s'waal etc. I don't quite omit 'a' but contract it a
> little by using the apostrophe. 'a' to me reperesent 'alif' sound and
> 'aa', the elongated alif. So apostrophe provides for me a sort of
> 'lesser alif' sound.
>
> I am sure I say f'raaz or s'waal no differently than you and Naseer
> sahib but I prefer to write these in Roman without the 'a'.
>
> Let us heed to Zoya sahiba and stop here!!
>
> Vijay
Vijay Sahib, please do continue your discussion on the lesser alif
sound!! :)
I am sure you have figured out by now that I was referring to something
else in the word "sh'naash" !!!!! ;) :):)
Jokes apart, I am sure this time around it was a typo, but me being me,
I just couldn't resist responding!! :)
__________Zoya
Vijay
Zoya Sahiba:
I sent you an e-mail at your yahoo address last night about this. Do
check!
About writing urdu in roman, I have just written a p.m. to Naseer
sahib. As you insist, here is the essence of what I wrote to him.
Maybe, Naseer sahib can respond to my missive on ALUP. It has veered a
little from the specific to the general. Anyways, here goes.
I feel there are two ways of writing Urdu in Roman. One is to find a
near exact equivalent in roman alphabet (or its combination with
certain keyboard characters) to the Urdu alphabets, essentially
rendering the 'hijje' in roman. This way, one knows exactly how the
word is spelt in Urdu. I think Raaz sahib's scheme is based on such a
system. Another instance would be how Naseer Sahib writes 'awr' instead
of 'aur', using 'w' for the urdu 'vow'. In this scheme, the 'a' after F
in F'raaz, I think, represents the 'zabr'.
I, OTOH, try to replicate the phonic sound of the Urdu word, rather
than slavishly trying to find an equivalent for every alphabet or
diacritical mark. Hence I write 'aur' instead of 'awr'. I feel that the
merest, almost non-existant gap/pause between 'F' and 'r' in F'raaz is
quite well served by the apostrophe.
For the purposes of ALUP, this serves me well. I have no problem
comprehending most ALUPers postings who use some similar scheme but
with the greatest respect to Raaz sahib, find his roman transcription
of Urdu, exact as it is, a bit heavy going.
Regards,
Vijay
Afzal A. Khan
>>>You are correct Afzal Sahib, my mother tongue is indeed PuNjabi but in
>>>writing f'raaz, s'waal etc. I don't quite omit 'a' but contract it a
>>>little by using the apostrophe. 'a' to me reperesent 'alif' sound and
>>>'aa', the elongated alif. So apostrophe provides for me a sort of
>>>'lesser alif' sound.
>>>
>>>I am sure I say f'raaz or s'waal no differently than you and Naseer
>>>sahib but I prefer to write these in Roman without the 'a'.
> I feel there are two ways of writing Urdu in Roman.
>
>
> For the purposes of ALUP, this serves me well. I have no problem
> comprehending most ALUPers postings who use some similar scheme but
> with the greatest respect to Raaz sahib, find his roman transcription
> of Urdu, exact as it is, a bit heavy going.
in this respect, you are not alone, Vijay Saheb.
Afzal
> Vijay
>
Naseer
I've re-read our previous posts and it appears to me that we may have
been talking cross purposes. I think I now understand where you are
coming from but I am not sure if I have been able to explain my point
of view successfully. Being misunderstood, unfortunately, is the story
of my life! However I hope that after this post I'll be more
successful.
> I feel there are two ways of writing Urdu in Roman. One is to find a
> near exact equivalent in roman alphabet (or its combination with
> certain keyboard characters) to the Urdu alphabets, essentially
> rendering the 'hijje' in roman. This way, one knows exactly how the
> word is spelt in Urdu. I think Raaz sahib's scheme is based on such a
> system.
I personally try to write in a way which is closer to Urdu system of
writing but I do not differentiate between te/toe, se/seen/sawaad.
zaal/ze/zoe/zawaad. For "vaao", I use "v" because to my mind "w" as in
"water" is different from "v" as in "vaalaa". Our "vaao" sound is
somewhat half way between "v" and "w". I represent " 'ain" and "hamzah"
with an apostrophe.
For vowels...the following examples should suffice.
ab/kab
aam/jaam
in/jin
iiNT/biin
un/bun
uun/KHuun
ek/mez
aisaa/kaisaa
ok (=Punjabi "lap"), Tok
aur/Ghaur ( I have not been consistent in writing "aur". Sometimes I
have written "awr")
For the izaafat, I write "i" and not "e" for two reasons...
For one, in the Urdu system, a "zer" is used for this and as shown
above, a "zer" vowel is depicted by an "i". Secondly, in Farsi ( I have
n't written Faarsii, because "Farsi" is the usual way of writing this
word) ...
kitaab-i-surKH (according to context..= a red book/ the red book)
kitaab-e surKH= a red book/some red book or other.
I write kahnaa and not kehnaa...again following the Urdu system.
> Another instance would be how Naseer Sahib writes 'awr' instead
> of 'aur', using 'w' for the urdu 'vow'. In this scheme, the 'a' after F
> in F'raaz, I think, represents the 'zabr'.
I've already mentioned "aur"/"awr". In the poet Faraaz's name, the
first "a" is a "zabar" and the double a is "alif-i-mamduudah", the
elongated alif. The same alif in "aam" and "jaam"
Now something for you and other ALUP-ers..
aam as in mango, technically speaking, is..
hamzah(represented by alif)+zabar+alif+miim
jaam as in cup...
jiim+zabar+alif+miim
> I, OTOH, try to replicate the phonic sound of the Urdu word, rather
> than slavishly trying to find an equivalent for every alphabet or
> diacritical mark. Hence I write 'aur' instead of 'awr'. I feel that the
> merest, almost non-existant gap/pause between 'F' and 'r' in F'raaz is
> quite well served by the apostrophe.
As I said, I miss out a number of consonants in the way I (like most
ALUPers) depict Urdu.
Between "F" and "r", there is a "zabar" but I'll come to this in a
minute.
>
> For the purposes of ALUP, this serves me well. I have no problem
> comprehending most ALUPers postings who use some similar scheme but
> with the greatest respect to Raaz sahib, find his roman transcription
> of Urdu, exact as it is, a bit heavy going.
I have no problem in understanding any of the ALUPers and I must
confess, I too find Raaz Sahib's method somewhat strenuous. As for a
certain Ali Minai Sahib's representation, my eyeballs almost fall out
of thier sockets!
Now coming to your reason for using the apostrophe..
"I write F'raaz merely to omit any sound of alif after F, which an 'a'
might denote".
If I were to write "Faraz", where the first "a" is for "zabar" and the
second "a" for the elongated alif, this may cause confusion. But when I
write "Faraaz", I am saying that the first "a" is a "zabar" and the
double "a" is for the elongated alif.
"Naseer Sahib: I am unclear about the pronounciation of words like
F'raaz (j'maal etc.) and how best to represent it in roman. I feel
that if I use an 'a', then it may sound like f+a+r+a+a+z, whereas I
want 'f' and 'r' to be in closer proximity. Same with j'maal, sh'naash
etc. I think it is personal quirk of representing in Roman what I think
is the correct pronounciation to my ear of a word or a name".
"You are correct Afzal Sahib, my mother tongue is indeed PuNjabi but in
writing f'raaz, s'waal etc. I don't quite omit 'a' but contract it a
little by using the apostrophe. 'a' to me reperesent 'alif' sound and
'aa', the elongated alif. So apostrophe provides for me a sort of
'lesser alif' sound".
I think when you say an "alif sound", you mean the initial alif, as in
"ab" (now). But "ab" really is alif+zabar+be.
If I understand you correctly, what you are perhaps saying is that the
"a" in "kab" (when?) is longer than the "a" between "F" and "r" in our
poet's name. I am not certain if this is the case but even if it were,
the Urdu system still gives it a "zabar" value. I don't know if prosody
rules would allow a "lesser alif" (called I believe a "niim fatHah")
but see if you can find a "shi'r" with the word "sharaab" in it. To my
mind this should be of the same "vazn" as "Faraaz". Would you say,
"sharaab" should be more accurately represented as "sh'raab"?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
vij...@gmail.com
Naseer Sahib,
There is much to agree with your post. As I said to you, I am quite
willing to defer to you if you feel that pronounciation of words like
f'raaz or j'maal (and yes, sh'raab) is better reflected in using the
'a' instead of the apostrophe. I feel that the weight of single 'a' is
more akin to representing the alif sound in, say, 'nabiina'. If you
tell me (and I will trust you implicitly on this) that gap between 'j'
and 'm' of j'maal (and 'f' and 'r' of f'raaz) is tha same as 'n' and
'a' of nabiina, then we have a near perfect agreement.
Regards,
Vijay
vij...@gmail.com
I meant 'n' and 'b' of nabiina!
Naseer
vij...@gmail.com wrote:
> There is much to agree with your post. As I said to you, I am quite
> willing to defer to you if you feel that pronounciation of words like
> f'raaz or j'maal (and yes, sh'raab) is better reflected in using the
> 'a' instead of the apostrophe. I feel that the weight of single 'a' is
> more akin to representing the alif sound in, say, 'nabiina'. If you
> tell me (and I will trust you implicitly on this) that gap between 'j'
> and 'm' of j'maal (and 'f' and 'r' of f'raaz) is tha same as 'n' and
> 'a' of nabiina, then we have a near perfect agreement.
>
muHtaram Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
Yes, Vijay Sahib, I do believe that words like faraaz, jamaal and
sharaab should have an "a" after the initial consonant and not an
apostrophe. This "a" is the short "a" represented by a zabar.
No, Vijay Sahib...both the "a"s in your "nabiina" are long "a"s. This
word is..
naa-biinaa and therefore the gap between j/m, f/r is NOT the same as
the gap between n/b.
Naseer
vij...@gmail.com
In that case, I stand corrected.
Vijay