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Correct version of haali's musaddas
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v
Feb 27, 2014, 2:46:43 AM2/27/14
to
Does anyone have the correct version of the haali musaddas which ends with
"woh Doobaa dahaane me.n gangaa ke aakar"
if so can you please share.
thanks in advance.
"woh Doobaa dahaane me.n gangaa ke aakar"
if so can you please share.
thanks in advance.
v
Mar 3, 2014, 9:09:06 PM3/3/14
to
vo deen e hijaazee kaa bebaaq beDaa
nishaa.n jiskaa aksaa e aalam me.n pahunchaa
muzaahim huaa koee Khatraa na jiskaa
kiye peshe paar saato.n samandar
na aman me.n jijhkaa na kulzaam me.n ThiThkaa
voh Doobaa dahaane me.n gangaa ke aakar
but my gut feel says this is not correct.
Anil Kala
Mar 4, 2014, 1:49:40 AM3/4/14
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>
> na aman me.n jijhkaa na kulzaam me.n ThiThkaa
>
What is the meaning of 'kulzaam' (inference though is apparent something opposite of 'aman')
> na aman me.n jijhkaa na kulzaam me.n ThiThkaa
>
Balvinder
Mar 4, 2014, 5:37:46 AM3/4/14
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mere khayaal se ye musaddas kuchh yuuN ho saktii hai..
vuh deen-e-hijaazii ka be-baak beRaa
nishaan jis ka aks-e-aalam meN pahuNchaa
mazhaam huaa koii khatraa na jis kaa
na omaan meN ThiThka na qulzum meN jhijhkaa
kiye paar jis ne saatoN samandar
vuh Duubaa dahaane meN Gangaa ke aakar
omaan=gulf of omaan
qulzum= Red Sea
mazhaam= ????
Faqat
Balvinder
Anil Kala
Mar 4, 2014, 6:09:28 AM3/4/14
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>
> omaan=gulf of omaan
>
> qulzum= Red Sea
>
> mazhaam= ????
>
>
>
> Faqat
>
> Balvinder
aadaab
mere Khayaal se Ravi Saahib ko problem is musaddas ki drift ko lekar hai, KHaas taur par aaKhari misre se jo inference ban rahaa hai woh qaabil e manzuur nahiiN.
mazhaam ke maane haiN rukaawat/obstacle
aadaab arz hai
v
Mar 4, 2014, 7:22:10 AM3/4/14
to
Balvinder saahab
shukriyaa.
anil saahab ne sahee farmaayaa hai. iskaa flow aur conclusion samajh men naheen aa rahaa hai. musaddas should also be a self contained unit of six lines. and it should be in metre
> vuh deen-e-hijaazii ka be-baak beRaa
this line is fine from a metre point of view (just relying on my ear here)
> kiye paar jis ne saatoN samandar
this is not in metre
hence the post.
shukriyaa.
anil saahab ne sahee farmaayaa hai. iskaa flow aur conclusion samajh men naheen aa rahaa hai. musaddas should also be a self contained unit of six lines. and it should be in metre
> vuh deen-e-hijaazii ka be-baak beRaa
>
> nishaan jis ka aks-e-aalam meN pahuNchaa
this is not flowing in metre
> nishaan jis ka aks-e-aalam meN pahuNchaa
>
> mazhaam huaa koii khatraa na jis kaa
mazhaam does not fit. muzaahim also means obstacle. that sounds better
> mazhaam huaa koii khatraa na jis kaa
>
> na omaan meN ThiThka na qulzum meN jhijhkaa
>
it would be pronounced umaan with the last n pronounced. if that is the case, it grinds on the ear.
> na omaan meN ThiThka na qulzum meN jhijhkaa
>
> kiye paar jis ne saatoN samandar
>
> vuh Duubaa dahaane meN Gangaa ke aakar
this is fine. and this is almost used as a proverb. so i understand the last line. i don't understand the others. and did not like the version i had (from a metrical point of view). there is a youtube video which claims to be the complete haali musaddas. i reached up to 18 min of that 57 min video, but the remaining video is not playing on my machine. don't know what the problem is?
> vuh Duubaa dahaane meN Gangaa ke aakar
hence the post.
Naseer
Mar 9, 2014, 7:09:53 PM3/9/14
to
Here is the correct version.
vuh diin-i-Hijaazii kaa be-baak baRaa
nishaaN jis kaa aqsaa-i-3aalam meN pahuNchaa
muzaaHim hu'aa ko'ii xatrah nah jis kaa
nah 3umaaN meN ThiTkaa nah qulzum meN jhijkaa
kiye pai-sipar jis ne saatoN samandar
Duubaa vuh gaNgaa ke dahaane meN aa kar
That fearless fleet of the faith that is Hijazi
Whose influence reached this planet's extremity
For whom no impediment, any danger could ever be
Did it waver in the gulf of Oman or the Red Sea?
The fleet that traversed the seven seas
Finally sank in the mouth of the Ganges
...................................................
Naseer
vuh diin-i-Hijaazii kaa be-baak baRaa
nishaaN jis kaa aqsaa-i-3aalam meN pahuNchaa
muzaaHim hu'aa ko'ii xatrah nah jis kaa
nah 3umaaN meN ThiTkaa nah qulzum meN jhijkaa
kiye pai-sipar jis ne saatoN samandar
Duubaa vuh gaNgaa ke dahaane meN aa kar
That fearless fleet of the faith that is Hijazi
Whose influence reached this planet's extremity
For whom no impediment, any danger could ever be
Did it waver in the gulf of Oman or the Red Sea?
The fleet that traversed the seven seas
Finally sank in the mouth of the Ganges
...................................................
Naseer
v
Mar 10, 2014, 2:08:59 AM3/10/14
to
naseer saab
thanks for the input.
all sounds perfect except the last line. should it not be
vuh Doobaa dahaane me.n gangaa ke aakar
platts says sipar is surrendering. pai means feet. how does the compound word get formed or is this some other etymology?
thanks for the input.
all sounds perfect except the last line. should it not be
vuh Doobaa dahaane me.n gangaa ke aakar
platts says sipar is surrendering. pai means feet. how does the compound word get formed or is this some other etymology?
Naseer
Mar 10, 2014, 9:53:10 AM3/10/14
to
pai-sipar karnaa means "to traverse, to cross".
وہ دینِ حجازی کا بیباک بیڑا
نشاں جس کا اقصاء عالم میں پہنچا
مزاحم ہوا کوئی خطرہ نہ جس کا
نہ عماں میں ٹھٹکا نہ قلزم میں جھجکا
کئے پے سپر جس نے ساتوں سمندر
وہ ڈوبا دہانے میں گنگا کے آکر
Naseer
Raj Kumar
Mar 12, 2014, 7:18:15 PM3/12/14
to
yaaraan-e-maHfil:
ab, jab-k is musaddas ki saHeeH shakl hamaare saamne hai, to ham kyooN na is ke saHeeH ma'anoN par dhyaan deN?
bazm-e-ALUP par, hamaare kuchh dostoN ne is musaddas ke aakhirii misr'e par Hairat aur (kisii had tak) be-yaqeeni kaa izhaar kiyaa hai. vajah is ki Ghaaliban yeh hai k is misr'e ka aNdaaz-e-bayaaN kuchh aisa hai k zehn ko chauNkaa saa detaa hai. kaash-ke ham is misr'e ke ma'ani lafzii taur par na leN, bal-k is ki 'connotation' ko samajhne ki koshish kareN.
kehne ka matlab yeh k is musaddas meN "deen-e-Hijaazii ke be-baak beRe kaa saat-samaNdar kaamyaabi se paar kar lenaa aur phir Hindostaan pahuNch kar Gangaa ke paaniyoN meN Duub jaanaa" --- yeh maHz ist'eaara (= metaphor) hai. is iste'aare ke pas-e-pusht (= in its background), Maulaana Haali ka ishaara is baat ki taraf hai k "aihl-e-deeN ka yeh kaarvaaN jo sar-zameen-e-Makka-o-Madiina se ravaana hu'aa aur, kayee mulkoN ko sar kartaa hu'aa, Hindostaan pahuNchaa to kyaa dekhte haiN k --- jis kaarvaaN ne (itnaa lamba safar tai karte huye) apni infaraadiyat (= individuality) ko bar-qaraar rakkhaa thaa, voh kaarvaaN yahaaN pahuNch kar apni infaraadiyat ko kho baiThaa aur Hindostaan ki GaNgaa-Jamnii tehzeeb meN taHleel (= dissolve) ho kar reh gayaa"!
yahaaN infaraadiyat se muraad hai --- zabaan-o-bayaan, libaas-o-poshaak, rasm-o-rivaaj, samaajii vivahaar (= social conduct), mazhabii aqaa'id, vGh, vGh. aap dekheN ge k aihl-e-deeN ki in 'norms' ko Hindostaani tehzeeb ne kyaa kyaa asaraat diye. in do tehzeeboN ke saNgam ne --- sivaaye "mazhabii aqaa'id" ke --- ziNdagii ke kam-o-besh sabhii sho'boN meN aek nayaa murakkab iijaad kiyaa, jise aihl-e-deeN ne jii-jaan se qubool kiyaa. So, instead of looking at this musaddas in terms of the "Hijaazii ship SUBMERGING under the waters of the Ganges", please look at it in terms of the "newly-arrived Islaamic culture MERGING into the pre-existing Indian culture"!
yeh alag baat k, beesveeN sadii meN, aihl-e-deeN ki infaraadiyat aek baar phir bhaRkii aur mulk ka baTwaara karvaa ke rahii --- magar yeh baTwaara hamaare "cultural differences" ki binaa par naheeN hu'aa thaa, bal-k hamaare "religious differences" ki binaa par hu'aa thaa. aur maze ki baat yeh hai k, hamaare paRosi mulk Pakistan meN, bahut se log ab apne aap ko Arabian culture ka alam-bardaar samajhne lage haiN --- HaalaaN-k un ke aabaa-o-ajdaad ko Hindostaan hi ki sar-zameen ne paalaa-posaa thaa!
ba-har-Haal, yeh to ba'ad ki baat hai. albatta, jis zamaane meN Maulaana Haali ne yeh musaddas kahii thii, voh zamaana kuchh aur thaa. us zamaane meN, Hindostaan ke beshtar log (bilaa liHaaz-e-mazhab-o-millat) aek duusre se ghul-mil kar rah rahe the!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
v
Mar 12, 2014, 10:14:05 PM3/12/14
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IN WHICH year was this musaddas written?
and why have other poets not taken to this format?
and why have other poets not taken to this format?
vij...@gmail.com
Mar 13, 2014, 6:17:03 AM3/13/14
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I haven't read the complete musaddas and the context may make it clearer, but if we take the above as a stand alone stanza, I feel it is a 'moan' rather than an 'applause'.
Best regards,
Vijay
Raj Kumar
Mar 13, 2014, 7:02:11 PM3/13/14
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On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:14:05 PM UTC-7, v wrote:
IN WHICH year was this musaddas written?
***Maulaana Haali ki paidaa'ish 1837 A.D. meN hu'ii aur un ki vafaat 1914 meN.
IN WHICH year was this musaddas written?
zer-e-baihs musaddas 1886 meN likkhii ga'ii thii.***
and why have other poets not taken to this format?
For instance, you must have read a very famous poem by Munshi Tilok Chand Mahruum titled "Nuur JahaaN kaa mazaar". That poem is in the musaddas format. The same is true of Munshi Brij Naraa'in Chakbast's epic poem 'Raamaayan", which is also in the same format.
Going back in history, it was Mirzaa Saudaa who first used this format to write marsiyas. Mirzaa Saudaa's initiative was followed by Meer Zameer in such vigor that, after him, marsiyas began to be written almost entirely in the musaddas format. The most brilliant follower of this tradition was Meer Anees who wrote numerous marsiyas of historical importance and, almost invariably, composed them in the musaddas format.
More recently, Iqbaal wrote his famous poems "shikva" and "javaab-e-shikva" --- both in the musaddas format. Qamar Jalaalaabaadi's rejoinder to Iqbaal is also in the same format.
Iqbaal's poem "Himaala", which is one of my favorites, is also in the musaddas format. So are his poems "abr-e-koh_saar", " Mirzaa Ghaalib", and many more.
Many of Josh Maleehaabaadii's poems are also written in the musaddas format --- such as "taraana-e-aazaadii-e-vatan", followed by "maatam-e-aazaadii", "rishwat", "bar shahaadat-e-Mahaatmaa GaaNdhi", and everyone's favorite "fitna-e-Khaanqaah"!
On a sad note, my own poem "shikast-e-saaz" (written in the aftermath of my young daughter Dimpy's demise in October 2011 and posted at ALUP in January 2012) was also in the musaddas format!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
Raj Kumar
Mar 14, 2014, 6:55:58 PM3/14/14
to
On Thursday, March 13, 2014 3:17:03 AM UTC-7, vij...@gmail.com wrote:
Raj sahib, thanks for your detailed commentary on this musaddas. Although I agree totally with your interpretation, I do have one comment to make.
***I am glad, Vijay saaHib, that you (by and large) agree with my commentary on this musaddas but your incisive comment on the mindset of the poet was an eye-opener for me!
Raj sahib, thanks for your detailed commentary on this musaddas. Although I agree totally with your interpretation, I do have one comment to make.
I honestly feel that, while I did capture the imagery of Haali's metaphor correctly, I didn't read his mindset correctly --- on that front, you did a much better job, Sir!***
I wondered about why Haali didn't use words like 'jazb honaa' or 'samaa jaana'. 'Duubna' is rather dramatic. So, although he is talking about Islaam becoming immersed in pre-existing Hindustani culture, he may be lamenting this fact rather than celebrating it. 'Duubna' to him may imply 'loss of purity' rather than 'gain of diversity'.
***You are right, Vijay saaHib. After reading your comment, I went back to several sources to understand the backdrop of this musaddas. My findings, by and large, support your comment.***
I haven't read the complete musaddas and the context may make it clearer but, if we take the above as a stand alone stanza, I feel it is a 'moan' rather than an 'applause'.
***Even if one hasn't read the whole poem, one can infer a lot from its very title, which is --- "madd-o-jazr-e-Islaam", meaning "the rise and fall of Islaam", jis meN shaa'ir ne Islaami saltanat ke uruuj aur zavaal par aek manzuum shaah-kaar (daastaan ke ruup meN) pesh kiyaa hai.
mere mutaal'ae ke mutaabiq, is tasneef ka pas-manzar 1857 ki voh aazmaa'ish thi jise kuchh log "Ghadr" (= mutiny) kehte haiN aur kuchh "Hindustaan ki pehli jaNg-e-aazaadii". us aazmaa'ish ne muGhaliya saltanat ko, hamesha ke liye, mulk-ba-dar kar diyaa aur Hindostaan par aNgrezoN ki hukuumat ko (fil-vaqt!) mazbuut se mazbuut-tar banaa diyaa.
is saaniHe ke ba'ad, Hindostaan meN kayee aisi lehreN chaleeN jin ka maqsad "Islaami supremacy" ko phir se ba-Haal karnaa tha. in lehroN ke aek mustanad sar-ba-raah Sir Sayyad Ahmad the, jinhoN ne 1875 meN Aligarh Muslim University ki bunyaad rakkhii aur ---- inheeN ke iimaa par --- Maulaana Haali ne 1886 meN yeh musaddas likkhii!
to, Vijay saaHib, I stand corrected --- Maulaana Haali ki yeh nazm hamaari do tehzeeboN ke saNgam ki 'celebration' naheeN hai. yeh "Islaami supremacy" ke zavaal ka maatam hai!
jaane se pehle, maiN aap ko aek aur iqtebaas se ruu-shinaas karna chaahuuN gaa. voh iqtebaas kuchh yuuN hai:
"some scholars of Pakistani nationalism consider this musaddas an important text for the future articulation of a Muslim Nation".
Thank goodness, those enthusiasts did manage to get their desired "Muslim Nation" in 1947 --------- but see what they have done with it!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
Naseer
Mar 16, 2014, 5:44:00 PM3/16/14
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"yeh alag baat k, beesveeN sadii meN, aihl-e-deeN ki infaraadiyat aek baar phir bhaRkii aur mulk ka baTwaara karvaa ke rahii --- magar yeh baTwaara hamaare "cultural differences" ki binaa par naheeN hu'aa thaa, bal-k hamaare "religious differences" ki binaa par hu'aa thaa. aur maze ki baat yeh hai k, hamaare paRosi mulk Pakistan meN, bahut se log ab apne aap ko Arabian culture ka alam-bardaar samajhne lage haiN --- HaalaaN-k un ke aabaa-o-ajdaad ko Hindostaan hi ki sar-zameen ne paalaa-posaa thaa!" (RKQ)
Raj Kumar SaaHib vaise to Hali ke is band kii tashriiH se mulk ke baTvaare kaa ko'ii ta3alluq nahiiN lekin aap i3tiraaf kareN ge kih is taqsiim ke piichhe ka'ii vajuuhaat kaar-farmaa thiiN. mumkin hai aap aur duusre aHbaab is kitaab "One Language, Two Scripts: The Hindi Movement in Nineteenth Century North India (Christopher. R. King, OUP 1994)" se vaaqif hoN. is faazil musannif ke mutaabiq baTvaare kaa sab se ahamm muHarrik unnisviiN sadii kii Hindi taHriik thii jis ke sar-garm kaar-kunoN ne sab se pahle devanaagrii kaa mutaalabah kiyaa jo dhiire dhiire ba3d meN nah sirf Hindu/Hindi/Hindustan kaa na3rah saabit hu'aa balkih us ne Hindi-Urdu tanaazu3 kii shakl ixitiyaar kar lii aur jis se Hindu-Muslim qaumoN ke darmiyaan ek xaliij paidaa ho ga'ii. yih suurat-i-Haal duusre 3avaamil ke saath bi_laaxir baTvaare kaa sabab banii. agar ko'ii dost yih kitaab paRhnaa chaahtaa hai to is kaa yih rabt hai.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...king/king.html
agar aap faqat is kaa xulaasah paRhnaa chaahte haiN to Allahabad University ke Professor Sushil Srivastava kii "review" kaa mutaala3ah kiijiye.
http://www.urdustudies.com/pdf/10/28KingLanguage.pdf
yahii baat Dr. Alok Rai ne apne ek 2012 ke lecture meN duhraa'ii hai.
"Dr Alok Rai, who is considered an authority on the 'Hindi-Urdu Controversy', traced the controversy from the 19th century and explained how a controversy which began with the demand for a script (Nagari), developed into a language demand (Hindi) and further became a political demand splitting two communities apart (Hindu and Muslim) and culminated in the creation of two nations (India and Pakistan). He said Konkani has lot of lessons to learn from this." (Prof. Dr Alok Rai on 'Language Script and Dominance in India)
http://www.targetgoa.com/ERIC-OZARIO/All-scripts-of-Konkani-must-be-encouraged-for-its-survival/532
lihaazaa is tanaazu3 ke avaa'il meN mazhab kaa kirdaar itnaa gahraa nahiiN thaa. Haal hii meN Jaswant Singh ne apnii kitaab meN is baat kaa inkishaaf kiyaa hai kih Muhammad Ali Jinnah ko xvaah-maxvaah maurid-i-ilzaam Thahraayaa jaataa hai jab kih mulk kii taqsiim meN Congress Party ke a3laa qaa'idiin kaa kirdaar nihaayat numaayaaN rahaa thaa.
"I wondered about why Haali didn't use words like 'jazb honaa' or 'samaa jaana'. 'Duubna' is rather dramatic. So, although he is talking about Islaam becoming immersed in pre-existing Hindustani culture, he may be lamenting this fact rather than celebrating it. 'Duubna' to him may imply 'loss of purity' rather than 'gain of diversity'." (VK)
Vijay SaaHib, Maulana Hali is not talking about "loss of purity" of Islam but the fall of its adherents from a position of success to that of doom. The "be-baak beRaa" (Muslim Community) that traversed the seas and oceans fearlessly and against all odds, when it came to the mouth of the Ganges (a river, not a sea) it got swallowed up in it! It does n't mean that Muslims outside India were living in a state of nirvana. As he is an Indian Muslim, his focus is naturally on the Muslims of India, hence the metaphor of Ganges. It is not India or the Ganges at fault. It is the Muslims themselves. Besides "be-baak beRaa" is the subject of the band. Verbs such as "samaanaa" or "jazb honaa" do not quite fit the context.
"is saaniHe ke ba'ad, Hindostaan meN kayee aisi lehreN chaleeN jin ka maqsad "Islaami supremacy" ko phir se ba-Haal karnaa tha. in lehroN ke aek mustanad sar-ba-raah Sir Sayyad Ahmad the, jinhoN ne 1875 meN Aligarh Muslim University ki bunyaad rakkhii aur ---- inheeN ke iimaa par --- Maulaana Haali ne 1886 meN yeh musaddas likkhii!
to, Vijay saaHib, I stand corrected --- Maulaana Haali ki yeh nazm hamaari do tehzeeboN ke saNgam ki 'celebration' naheeN hai. yeh "Islaami supremacy" ke zavaal ka maatam hai!"
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan kii taHriik kaa maqsad faqat musalmaanoN kii islaaH thaa. vuh har maidaan meN zabuuN-Haalii ke shikaar the, xusuus-an ta3liim meN. is liye unhoN ne Aligarh Muslim University kii bunyaad Daalii. is 3amal se "Islam supremacy" kaa ko'ii vaasitah nahiiN. nah hii Maulana Hali "Islam supremacy" ke zavaal kaa "maatam" kar rahe haiN! musaddas ke likhne kii vajh kyaa thii yih maiN aglii post meN likhuuN gaa.
jahaaN tak ba3z Pakisani daanish-varoN kaa musaddas ko aa'indah Muslim Millat kaa pesh-xaimah samajhne se ta3alluq hai to yahii baat janaab-i-Khushwant Singh ne Iqbal ke shikvah-javaab-i-shikvah ke tarjume ke pesh-lafz meN bhii kahii hai. haqiiqat yih hai kih Pakistan kaa qissah nah Hali ke daur meN chhiRaa thaa aur nah hii "shikve" ke zamaane meN. yahaaN maiN janaab-i-Afzal SaaHib kii ek post se iqtibaas kartaa huuN.
"The two poems were written in the early part of the twentieth century. At the time, the Quaid-e-Azam was a staunch "nationalist" and people had not really thought about claiming a separate homeland for the Indian Muslims. The campaign in this behalf really began towards the late thirties. These are incontrovertible historical facts. Even then, KS has declared, as per SRF, that "the Shikwa reveals a not-too-veiled contempt for non-Muslims, particularly Hindus and it may be regarded as the first manifesto of the Two Nation Theory". What does this assertion indicate if not a wholly dishonest mindset? Is he not doing a singular disservice to Iqbal by telling the non- Urdu Indian masses that Iqbal was advocating a Partition of the country around 1910, (when the poem was composed)? And this too as recently as 1975?"
zaahir hai kih kisii bhii paayah-daar shi3riii tasniif kii muta3addad tashriiHaat faraaham kii jaa saktii haiN lekin ek tasniif jo ek sadii qabl kii hai, agar use ek maxsuus nazriyyah rakhne vaalaa fard yaa tanziim apne faa'ide ke liye apnaa le, to is se kuchh farq nahiiN paRtaa. likhne vaale kaa kyaa maqsad thaa yih maiN aglii post meN Maulana Hali hii kii zabaan meN pesh karuuN gaa.
"Thank goodness, those enthusiasts did manage to get their desired "Muslim Nation" in 1947 --------- but see what they have done with it!"
jii haaN, xudaa kaa shukr hai! baTvaaraa honaa chaahiye thaa yaa nahiiN, yih ek alag baHs hai. lekiN Haqiiqat yahii hai kih Pakistan kaa vujuud hai.
aap ne ba-jaa farmaayaa hai kih jo kuchh is vaqt Pakistan meN ho rahaa hai masal-an xud-kush Hamle, firqah-vaariyyat, be-gunaah insaanoN kaa qatl, aqaliyyatoN par Hamle, Drone Hamle vaGhairah) yih har Pakistani aur insaan-dost ke liye qaabil-i-sharm baat hai aur is kii jitnii bhii muzammat kii jaa'e kam hai. ko'ii bhii shaxs jis ke siine meN muHabbat bharaa dil ho, aise Haalaat se xush nahiiN rah saktaa. xush-qismatii se Pakistan meN aisii quvvateN bhii haiN jo Pakistan ko ek xush-Haal, pur-amn aur taraqqii-pasand mulk banaane meN koshaaN haiN, masal-an Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf. is ke 3ilaavah bahut se NGO aur xairaatii idaare insaanii Huquuq aur bih-buudii ke liye nihaayat fa33aal haiN. in maayus-kun Haalaat meN bhii maiN to pur-ummiid huuN!
jis tarH aap ko Pakistan kii Haalat-i-zaar par dukh hotaa hai mujhe bhii afsos ke saath kahnaa paRtaa hai kih hamaare paRosii mulk Bharat meN bhii "raavii sab chain nahiiN likh rahaa"! lagtaa hai vuh aisaa mulk hai jahaaN 3aurat kii 3izzat luuTnaa ek ma3muul hai, jo "nichlii-zaat" ke HinduoN ke liye jahannum hai, jahaaaN aqaliyyatoN kaa (xvaah vuh musalmaan sikh yaa 3iisaa'ii hoN) xuun sastaa hai, mazhabii intihaa-pasandii hai, 3alaiHida-pasand tanziimeN Hukuumat ke saath jaNg meN pesh-pesh haiN aur tashaddud kaa bol baalaa hai. ek aisaa shaxs jis ke haath hazaaroN insaanoN ke xuun se raNge hu'e haiN, vuh kal ko Bharat kaa pradhaan-mantarii ban_ne jaa rahaa hai. yih des bhii ko'ii svarg nahiiN!
merii du3aa hai kih Pakistan aur Hindustan, donoN meN basne vaale log sukh kii saaNs leN! un kii jaan-o-maal maHfuuz ho, vuh xush-Haal hoN. donoN mamaalik achchhe paRosiyoN kii tarH aapas meN pyaar aur shaanti se raheN. musiibat ke vaqt ek duusre ke kaam aa'eN aur sab masaa'il ko mil-baiTh kar Hal kareN.
Pakistani "kalchar" par phir kabhii sahii!
xair-andesh
Naseer
Raj Kumar SaaHib vaise to Hali ke is band kii tashriiH se mulk ke baTvaare kaa ko'ii ta3alluq nahiiN lekin aap i3tiraaf kareN ge kih is taqsiim ke piichhe ka'ii vajuuhaat kaar-farmaa thiiN. mumkin hai aap aur duusre aHbaab is kitaab "One Language, Two Scripts: The Hindi Movement in Nineteenth Century North India (Christopher. R. King, OUP 1994)" se vaaqif hoN. is faazil musannif ke mutaabiq baTvaare kaa sab se ahamm muHarrik unnisviiN sadii kii Hindi taHriik thii jis ke sar-garm kaar-kunoN ne sab se pahle devanaagrii kaa mutaalabah kiyaa jo dhiire dhiire ba3d meN nah sirf Hindu/Hindi/Hindustan kaa na3rah saabit hu'aa balkih us ne Hindi-Urdu tanaazu3 kii shakl ixitiyaar kar lii aur jis se Hindu-Muslim qaumoN ke darmiyaan ek xaliij paidaa ho ga'ii. yih suurat-i-Haal duusre 3avaamil ke saath bi_laaxir baTvaare kaa sabab banii. agar ko'ii dost yih kitaab paRhnaa chaahtaa hai to is kaa yih rabt hai.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...king/king.html
agar aap faqat is kaa xulaasah paRhnaa chaahte haiN to Allahabad University ke Professor Sushil Srivastava kii "review" kaa mutaala3ah kiijiye.
http://www.urdustudies.com/pdf/10/28KingLanguage.pdf
yahii baat Dr. Alok Rai ne apne ek 2012 ke lecture meN duhraa'ii hai.
"Dr Alok Rai, who is considered an authority on the 'Hindi-Urdu Controversy', traced the controversy from the 19th century and explained how a controversy which began with the demand for a script (Nagari), developed into a language demand (Hindi) and further became a political demand splitting two communities apart (Hindu and Muslim) and culminated in the creation of two nations (India and Pakistan). He said Konkani has lot of lessons to learn from this." (Prof. Dr Alok Rai on 'Language Script and Dominance in India)
http://www.targetgoa.com/ERIC-OZARIO/All-scripts-of-Konkani-must-be-encouraged-for-its-survival/532
lihaazaa is tanaazu3 ke avaa'il meN mazhab kaa kirdaar itnaa gahraa nahiiN thaa. Haal hii meN Jaswant Singh ne apnii kitaab meN is baat kaa inkishaaf kiyaa hai kih Muhammad Ali Jinnah ko xvaah-maxvaah maurid-i-ilzaam Thahraayaa jaataa hai jab kih mulk kii taqsiim meN Congress Party ke a3laa qaa'idiin kaa kirdaar nihaayat numaayaaN rahaa thaa.
"I wondered about why Haali didn't use words like 'jazb honaa' or 'samaa jaana'. 'Duubna' is rather dramatic. So, although he is talking about Islaam becoming immersed in pre-existing Hindustani culture, he may be lamenting this fact rather than celebrating it. 'Duubna' to him may imply 'loss of purity' rather than 'gain of diversity'." (VK)
Vijay SaaHib, Maulana Hali is not talking about "loss of purity" of Islam but the fall of its adherents from a position of success to that of doom. The "be-baak beRaa" (Muslim Community) that traversed the seas and oceans fearlessly and against all odds, when it came to the mouth of the Ganges (a river, not a sea) it got swallowed up in it! It does n't mean that Muslims outside India were living in a state of nirvana. As he is an Indian Muslim, his focus is naturally on the Muslims of India, hence the metaphor of Ganges. It is not India or the Ganges at fault. It is the Muslims themselves. Besides "be-baak beRaa" is the subject of the band. Verbs such as "samaanaa" or "jazb honaa" do not quite fit the context.
"is saaniHe ke ba'ad, Hindostaan meN kayee aisi lehreN chaleeN jin ka maqsad "Islaami supremacy" ko phir se ba-Haal karnaa tha. in lehroN ke aek mustanad sar-ba-raah Sir Sayyad Ahmad the, jinhoN ne 1875 meN Aligarh Muslim University ki bunyaad rakkhii aur ---- inheeN ke iimaa par --- Maulaana Haali ne 1886 meN yeh musaddas likkhii!
to, Vijay saaHib, I stand corrected --- Maulaana Haali ki yeh nazm hamaari do tehzeeboN ke saNgam ki 'celebration' naheeN hai. yeh "Islaami supremacy" ke zavaal ka maatam hai!"
"some scholars of Pakistani nationalism consider this musaddas an important text for the future articulation of a Muslim Nation".
Raj Kumar SaaHib, merii Haqiir raa'e meN is adabii maHfil meN aisii siyaasii baaton kii zaruurat nahiiN thii. lekin jab aap ne aisaa kar hii diyaa hai to majbuur-an javaab likh rahaa huuN. ummiid hai aap buraa nahiiN maaneN ge.
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan kii taHriik kaa maqsad faqat musalmaanoN kii islaaH thaa. vuh har maidaan meN zabuuN-Haalii ke shikaar the, xusuus-an ta3liim meN. is liye unhoN ne Aligarh Muslim University kii bunyaad Daalii. is 3amal se "Islam supremacy" kaa ko'ii vaasitah nahiiN. nah hii Maulana Hali "Islam supremacy" ke zavaal kaa "maatam" kar rahe haiN! musaddas ke likhne kii vajh kyaa thii yih maiN aglii post meN likhuuN gaa.
jahaaN tak ba3z Pakisani daanish-varoN kaa musaddas ko aa'indah Muslim Millat kaa pesh-xaimah samajhne se ta3alluq hai to yahii baat janaab-i-Khushwant Singh ne Iqbal ke shikvah-javaab-i-shikvah ke tarjume ke pesh-lafz meN bhii kahii hai. haqiiqat yih hai kih Pakistan kaa qissah nah Hali ke daur meN chhiRaa thaa aur nah hii "shikve" ke zamaane meN. yahaaN maiN janaab-i-Afzal SaaHib kii ek post se iqtibaas kartaa huuN.
"The two poems were written in the early part of the twentieth century. At the time, the Quaid-e-Azam was a staunch "nationalist" and people had not really thought about claiming a separate homeland for the Indian Muslims. The campaign in this behalf really began towards the late thirties. These are incontrovertible historical facts. Even then, KS has declared, as per SRF, that "the Shikwa reveals a not-too-veiled contempt for non-Muslims, particularly Hindus and it may be regarded as the first manifesto of the Two Nation Theory". What does this assertion indicate if not a wholly dishonest mindset? Is he not doing a singular disservice to Iqbal by telling the non- Urdu Indian masses that Iqbal was advocating a Partition of the country around 1910, (when the poem was composed)? And this too as recently as 1975?"
zaahir hai kih kisii bhii paayah-daar shi3riii tasniif kii muta3addad tashriiHaat faraaham kii jaa saktii haiN lekin ek tasniif jo ek sadii qabl kii hai, agar use ek maxsuus nazriyyah rakhne vaalaa fard yaa tanziim apne faa'ide ke liye apnaa le, to is se kuchh farq nahiiN paRtaa. likhne vaale kaa kyaa maqsad thaa yih maiN aglii post meN Maulana Hali hii kii zabaan meN pesh karuuN gaa.
"Thank goodness, those enthusiasts did manage to get their desired "Muslim Nation" in 1947 --------- but see what they have done with it!"
aap ne ba-jaa farmaayaa hai kih jo kuchh is vaqt Pakistan meN ho rahaa hai masal-an xud-kush Hamle, firqah-vaariyyat, be-gunaah insaanoN kaa qatl, aqaliyyatoN par Hamle, Drone Hamle vaGhairah) yih har Pakistani aur insaan-dost ke liye qaabil-i-sharm baat hai aur is kii jitnii bhii muzammat kii jaa'e kam hai. ko'ii bhii shaxs jis ke siine meN muHabbat bharaa dil ho, aise Haalaat se xush nahiiN rah saktaa. xush-qismatii se Pakistan meN aisii quvvateN bhii haiN jo Pakistan ko ek xush-Haal, pur-amn aur taraqqii-pasand mulk banaane meN koshaaN haiN, masal-an Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf. is ke 3ilaavah bahut se NGO aur xairaatii idaare insaanii Huquuq aur bih-buudii ke liye nihaayat fa33aal haiN. in maayus-kun Haalaat meN bhii maiN to pur-ummiid huuN!
jis tarH aap ko Pakistan kii Haalat-i-zaar par dukh hotaa hai mujhe bhii afsos ke saath kahnaa paRtaa hai kih hamaare paRosii mulk Bharat meN bhii "raavii sab chain nahiiN likh rahaa"! lagtaa hai vuh aisaa mulk hai jahaaN 3aurat kii 3izzat luuTnaa ek ma3muul hai, jo "nichlii-zaat" ke HinduoN ke liye jahannum hai, jahaaaN aqaliyyatoN kaa (xvaah vuh musalmaan sikh yaa 3iisaa'ii hoN) xuun sastaa hai, mazhabii intihaa-pasandii hai, 3alaiHida-pasand tanziimeN Hukuumat ke saath jaNg meN pesh-pesh haiN aur tashaddud kaa bol baalaa hai. ek aisaa shaxs jis ke haath hazaaroN insaanoN ke xuun se raNge hu'e haiN, vuh kal ko Bharat kaa pradhaan-mantarii ban_ne jaa rahaa hai. yih des bhii ko'ii svarg nahiiN!
merii du3aa hai kih Pakistan aur Hindustan, donoN meN basne vaale log sukh kii saaNs leN! un kii jaan-o-maal maHfuuz ho, vuh xush-Haal hoN. donoN mamaalik achchhe paRosiyoN kii tarH aapas meN pyaar aur shaanti se raheN. musiibat ke vaqt ek duusre ke kaam aa'eN aur sab masaa'il ko mil-baiTh kar Hal kareN.
Pakistani "kalchar" par phir kabhii sahii!
xair-andesh
Naseer
Raj Kumar
Mar 17, 2014, 6:32:28 PM3/17/14
to
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:44:00 PM UTC-7, Naseer wrote:
Raj Kumar SaaHib, merii Haqiir raa'e meN is adabii maHfil meN aisii siyaasii baaton kii zaruurat nahiiN thii. lekin jab aap ne aisaa kar hii diyaa hai to majbuur-an javaab likh rahaa huuN. ummiid hai aap buraa nahiiN maaneN ge.
***janaab-e-Naseer saaHib:
Raj Kumar SaaHib, merii Haqiir raa'e meN is adabii maHfil meN aisii siyaasii baaton kii zaruurat nahiiN thii. lekin jab aap ne aisaa kar hii diyaa hai to majbuur-an javaab likh rahaa huuN. ummiid hai aap buraa nahiiN maaneN ge.
maiN aap ki is raa'e se solah-aanne mutaffiq huuN k ALUP aek adabii maHfil hai aur is maHfil meN siyaasii mubaahisoN ka guzar ham sabhoN ke liye muzir saabit ho sakta hai. nateejatan, jo baiHs is laRii meN naagaah chhiR gayee hai, maiN us baiHs meN mazeed Hissa naheeN luuN gaa. aur agar deegar asHaab bhi aisaa hi kareN to yeh raviiya sabhii ALUPers ke liye Khush-aa'iNd hogaa.
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar***
Kali Hawa
Mar 17, 2014, 9:58:13 PM3/17/14
to
>
> Vijay SaaHib, Maulana Hali is not talking about "loss of purity" of Islam but the fall of its adherents from a position of success to that of doom. The "be-baak beRaa" (Muslim Community) that traversed the seas and oceans fearlessly and against all odds, when it came to the mouth of the Ganges (a river, not a sea) it got swallowed up in it! It does n't mean that Muslims outside India were living in a state of nirvana. As he is an Indian Muslim, his focus is naturally on the Muslims of India, hence the metaphor of Ganges. It is not India or the Ganges at fault. It is the Muslims themselves. Besides "be-baak beRaa" is the subject of the band. Verbs such as "samaanaa" or "jazb honaa" do not quite fit the context.
>
Now it makes some sense. I was actually thinking of 'spreading Islam losing steam' instead of 'falling from glory'
> Vijay SaaHib, Maulana Hali is not talking about "loss of purity" of Islam but the fall of its adherents from a position of success to that of doom. The "be-baak beRaa" (Muslim Community) that traversed the seas and oceans fearlessly and against all odds, when it came to the mouth of the Ganges (a river, not a sea) it got swallowed up in it! It does n't mean that Muslims outside India were living in a state of nirvana. As he is an Indian Muslim, his focus is naturally on the Muslims of India, hence the metaphor of Ganges. It is not India or the Ganges at fault. It is the Muslims themselves. Besides "be-baak beRaa" is the subject of the band. Verbs such as "samaanaa" or "jazb honaa" do not quite fit the context.
>
vij...@gmail.com
Mar 18, 2014, 4:47:05 AM3/18/14
to
bohat shukriia, Raj sahib. aur aap ka bhii, Naseer sahib. Let's stay the course, Google permitting.
Best regards,
Vijay
Best regards,
Vijay
Naseer
Mar 21, 2014, 8:46:06 AM3/21/14
to
dostaan-i-giraamii aadaab.
Musaddas-i-Hali 1879 meN pahlii baar chhapaa. Hasb-i-va3dah, is ke diibaache se maiN aap kii xidmat meN chiidah-chiidah iqtibaasaat pesh kar rahaa huuN jin ke tavassut se mujhe ummiid hai kih musannif kii niyyat par raushanii paRe gii aur yih vaaziH ho jaa'e gaa kih is kitaab ke muHarrikaat kyaa the.
"zamaane kaa nayaa ThaaTh dekh kar puraanii shaa3irii se dil ser ho gayaa thaa aur jhuuTe Dhakosle baaNdne se sharm aane lagii thii......magar yih ek naasuur kaa muNh band karnaa thaa.....aur ko'ii rastaa DhuuNDte the. qaum ke ek sachche xair-xvaah ne (jo apnii qaum ke sivaa tamaam mulk meN isii naam se pukaaraa jaataa hai aur jis tarH xvud apne pur-zor haath aur qavii baazuu se bhaa'iyoN kii xidmat kar rahaa hai isii tarH har apaahaj aur nikamme ko isii kaam meN lagaanaa chaahtaa hai) aa kar malaamat kii aur Ghairat dilaa'ii kih Haivaan-i-naatiq hone kaa da3vaa karnaa aur xudaa kii dii hu'ii zabaan se kaam nah lenaa bare sharm kii baat hai.....
qaum kii Haalat tabaah hai. 3aziiz zaliil ho ga'e haiN. shariif xaak meN mil ga'e haiN. 3ilm kaa xaatimah ho chukaa hai. aflaas kii ghar-ghar pukaar hai. peT kii chaaroN taraf duhaa'ii hai. axlaaq bi_lkul bigaR ga'e haiN aur bigaRte jaate haiN. ta3assub kii ghaNgor ghaTaa chhaa'ii hu'ii hai. rasm-o-rivaaj kii beRii ek-ek ke paa'oN par paRii hu'ii hai. jahaalat aur taqliid sab kii garden par savaar hai. umaraa' jo bahut kuchh qaum ko faa'idah pahuNchaa sakte haiN, Gaafil aur be-parvaa haiN. 3ulaamaa' jink o qaum kii islaaH kaa bahut baRaa daxl hai, zamaane kii zaruuratoN aur masHilatoN se naa-vaaqif haiN. aise meN jis se jo kuchh ban aa'e to bihtar hai varnah ham sab ek hii naa'o meN savaar haiN aur saarii naa'o kii salaamatii meN hamaarii salaamatii hai. har chand log bahut kuchh likh chuke haiN aur likh rahe haiN magar nazm ji kih bi_ttab3 sab ko marGhuub hai aur xaas kar 3arab kaa tarikah aur musalmaanoN kaa mauruusii Hissah hai, qaum ko bedaar karne ke liye ab tak kisii ne nahiiN likhii. ....
har-chand Hukm kii bajaa-aavarii mushkil thii aur xidmat kaa bojh uThaanaa dushvaar thaa magar naasiH kii jaaduu-bharii taqriir meN jii meN ghar kar ga'ii. dil se hii niklii thii dil meN jaa kar Thahrii. barsoN kii bujhii hu'ii tabii3at meN ek valvalh paidaa hu'aa aur baasii kaRhii me Nek ubaal aayaa. afsurdah-dil aur bosiidah-dimaaGh jo amraaz ke mutavaatar HamloN se kisii kaam ke nah rahe the, unhiiN se kaam lenaa shuruu3 kiyaa aur Musaddas kii bunyaad Daalii....
is Musaddas ke aaGhaaz meN paan-saat band tamhiid ke likh kar avval 3arab kii us abtar Haalat kaa xaakah khiiNchaa hai jo zuhuur-i-islaam se pahle thii aur jis kaa naam islaam kii zabaan meN jaahiliyyat rakhaa gayaa hai- phir kaukab-i-islaam kaa tuluu3 honaa aur nabii-i-ummii [The Unlettered Prophet] kii ta3liim se is registaan kaa daf3at-an sar-sabz-o-shaadaab ho jaanaa aur is abr-i-raHmat kaa ummat kii khetii ko riHlat ke vaqt haraa-bharaa chhoR jaanaa aur musalmaanoN kaa diinii aur dunyaavii taraqqiyaat par tamaam 3aalam par sabqat le jaanaa bayaan kiyaa hai. is ke ba3d un ke tanazzul kaa Haal likhaa hai aur qaum ke liye apne be-hunar haathoN se ek aa'iinah-xaanah banaayaa hai jis meN aa kar vuh apne xatt-o-xaal dekh sakte haiN kih ham kaun the aur kyaa ho ga'e. agarchi is jaan-kaah nazm meN jis kii dushvaariyiN likhne vaale kaa dil aur dimaaGh hii xuub jaantaa hai, bayaan kaa Haq nah mujh se adaa hu'aa hai aur nah hii ho saktaa hai magar shukr hai kis jis qadr ho gayaa itnii bhii ummiid nahiiN thii. hamaare mulk ke ahl-i-mazaaq zaahiraa is ruukhii-phiikii siidhii-saadii nazm ko pasand nah kareN ge kyoNkih is meN taariixii vaaqi3aat haiN yaa chand aayatoN aur HadiisoN kaa tarjumah hai yaa jo aaj-kal qaum kii Haalat hai us kaa saHiiH-saHiiH naqshah kheNchaa gayaa hai. nah kahiiN naazuk-xayaalii hai nah raNgiiN-bayanii. nah mubaalaGhah kii chaaT hai nah takalluf kii chaashnii hai. Gharaz ko'ii baat aisii nahiiN jis se ahl-i-vatan ke kaan maanuus aur mazaaq aashnaa hoN.....goyaa ahl-i-dillii aur lakhnau kii da3vat me Nek aisaa dastar-xvaan chunaa gayaa hai jis meN ubaalii khichRii aur be-mirch saalan ke sivaa kuchh nahiiN. magar is nazm kii tartiib maze lene aur vaah-vaah sun_ne ke liye nahiiN kii ga'ii. balkih 3aziizoN aur dostoN ko Ghairat aur sharm dilaane ke liye kii ga'ii hai. agar dekheN aur paRheN aur samjheN to un kaa iHsaan hai varnah kuchh shikaayat nahiiN... "
agar aap puuraa diibachah paRhaa chaaheN yaa Musaddas kii varq-gardaanii karnaa chaaheN to yih liijiye, ek nihaayat hii xush-xatt nusxah jo 1879 meN Lahore meN chhapaa thaa.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/dateConversion.php?mode=hij-ger&day=1&month=1&year=1296&date_result=1
Musaddas-i-Hali 1879 meN pahlii baar chhapaa. Hasb-i-va3dah, is ke diibaache se maiN aap kii xidmat meN chiidah-chiidah iqtibaasaat pesh kar rahaa huuN jin ke tavassut se mujhe ummiid hai kih musannif kii niyyat par raushanii paRe gii aur yih vaaziH ho jaa'e gaa kih is kitaab ke muHarrikaat kyaa the.
"zamaane kaa nayaa ThaaTh dekh kar puraanii shaa3irii se dil ser ho gayaa thaa aur jhuuTe Dhakosle baaNdne se sharm aane lagii thii......magar yih ek naasuur kaa muNh band karnaa thaa.....aur ko'ii rastaa DhuuNDte the. qaum ke ek sachche xair-xvaah ne (jo apnii qaum ke sivaa tamaam mulk meN isii naam se pukaaraa jaataa hai aur jis tarH xvud apne pur-zor haath aur qavii baazuu se bhaa'iyoN kii xidmat kar rahaa hai isii tarH har apaahaj aur nikamme ko isii kaam meN lagaanaa chaahtaa hai) aa kar malaamat kii aur Ghairat dilaa'ii kih Haivaan-i-naatiq hone kaa da3vaa karnaa aur xudaa kii dii hu'ii zabaan se kaam nah lenaa bare sharm kii baat hai.....
qaum kii Haalat tabaah hai. 3aziiz zaliil ho ga'e haiN. shariif xaak meN mil ga'e haiN. 3ilm kaa xaatimah ho chukaa hai. aflaas kii ghar-ghar pukaar hai. peT kii chaaroN taraf duhaa'ii hai. axlaaq bi_lkul bigaR ga'e haiN aur bigaRte jaate haiN. ta3assub kii ghaNgor ghaTaa chhaa'ii hu'ii hai. rasm-o-rivaaj kii beRii ek-ek ke paa'oN par paRii hu'ii hai. jahaalat aur taqliid sab kii garden par savaar hai. umaraa' jo bahut kuchh qaum ko faa'idah pahuNchaa sakte haiN, Gaafil aur be-parvaa haiN. 3ulaamaa' jink o qaum kii islaaH kaa bahut baRaa daxl hai, zamaane kii zaruuratoN aur masHilatoN se naa-vaaqif haiN. aise meN jis se jo kuchh ban aa'e to bihtar hai varnah ham sab ek hii naa'o meN savaar haiN aur saarii naa'o kii salaamatii meN hamaarii salaamatii hai. har chand log bahut kuchh likh chuke haiN aur likh rahe haiN magar nazm ji kih bi_ttab3 sab ko marGhuub hai aur xaas kar 3arab kaa tarikah aur musalmaanoN kaa mauruusii Hissah hai, qaum ko bedaar karne ke liye ab tak kisii ne nahiiN likhii. ....
har-chand Hukm kii bajaa-aavarii mushkil thii aur xidmat kaa bojh uThaanaa dushvaar thaa magar naasiH kii jaaduu-bharii taqriir meN jii meN ghar kar ga'ii. dil se hii niklii thii dil meN jaa kar Thahrii. barsoN kii bujhii hu'ii tabii3at meN ek valvalh paidaa hu'aa aur baasii kaRhii me Nek ubaal aayaa. afsurdah-dil aur bosiidah-dimaaGh jo amraaz ke mutavaatar HamloN se kisii kaam ke nah rahe the, unhiiN se kaam lenaa shuruu3 kiyaa aur Musaddas kii bunyaad Daalii....
is Musaddas ke aaGhaaz meN paan-saat band tamhiid ke likh kar avval 3arab kii us abtar Haalat kaa xaakah khiiNchaa hai jo zuhuur-i-islaam se pahle thii aur jis kaa naam islaam kii zabaan meN jaahiliyyat rakhaa gayaa hai- phir kaukab-i-islaam kaa tuluu3 honaa aur nabii-i-ummii [The Unlettered Prophet] kii ta3liim se is registaan kaa daf3at-an sar-sabz-o-shaadaab ho jaanaa aur is abr-i-raHmat kaa ummat kii khetii ko riHlat ke vaqt haraa-bharaa chhoR jaanaa aur musalmaanoN kaa diinii aur dunyaavii taraqqiyaat par tamaam 3aalam par sabqat le jaanaa bayaan kiyaa hai. is ke ba3d un ke tanazzul kaa Haal likhaa hai aur qaum ke liye apne be-hunar haathoN se ek aa'iinah-xaanah banaayaa hai jis meN aa kar vuh apne xatt-o-xaal dekh sakte haiN kih ham kaun the aur kyaa ho ga'e. agarchi is jaan-kaah nazm meN jis kii dushvaariyiN likhne vaale kaa dil aur dimaaGh hii xuub jaantaa hai, bayaan kaa Haq nah mujh se adaa hu'aa hai aur nah hii ho saktaa hai magar shukr hai kis jis qadr ho gayaa itnii bhii ummiid nahiiN thii. hamaare mulk ke ahl-i-mazaaq zaahiraa is ruukhii-phiikii siidhii-saadii nazm ko pasand nah kareN ge kyoNkih is meN taariixii vaaqi3aat haiN yaa chand aayatoN aur HadiisoN kaa tarjumah hai yaa jo aaj-kal qaum kii Haalat hai us kaa saHiiH-saHiiH naqshah kheNchaa gayaa hai. nah kahiiN naazuk-xayaalii hai nah raNgiiN-bayanii. nah mubaalaGhah kii chaaT hai nah takalluf kii chaashnii hai. Gharaz ko'ii baat aisii nahiiN jis se ahl-i-vatan ke kaan maanuus aur mazaaq aashnaa hoN.....goyaa ahl-i-dillii aur lakhnau kii da3vat me Nek aisaa dastar-xvaan chunaa gayaa hai jis meN ubaalii khichRii aur be-mirch saalan ke sivaa kuchh nahiiN. magar is nazm kii tartiib maze lene aur vaah-vaah sun_ne ke liye nahiiN kii ga'ii. balkih 3aziizoN aur dostoN ko Ghairat aur sharm dilaane ke liye kii ga'ii hai. agar dekheN aur paRheN aur samjheN to un kaa iHsaan hai varnah kuchh shikaayat nahiiN... "
agar aap puuraa diibachah paRhaa chaaheN yaa Musaddas kii varq-gardaanii karnaa chaaheN to yih liijiye, ek nihaayat hii xush-xatt nusxah jo 1879 meN Lahore meN chhapaa thaa.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/dateConversion.php?mode=hij-ger&day=1&month=1&year=1296&date_result=1
Naseer
Mar 21, 2014, 5:02:35 PM3/21/14
to
In the other thread Afzal SaaHib wrote..
"And finally, my own take on the impugned 'baNd' from Maulana Haali's Musaddas. Let us examine its text :
Woh deen-e-Hijaazi ka be~baak beRa
NishaaN jis ka aqsaa-e-'aalam men pahuNcha
Mazaahim huwa koi KHatra na jis ka
Na 'UmmaaN men ThiTka, na Qulzum men jhijka
Kiye pai~sipar jis ne saatoN samaNdar
Woh Dooba dahaane men Ganga ke aa kar
If you read the complete Musaddas, the Maulana is describing how
the Islamic faith originating in Arabia (Hijaaz) expanded through-
out the world. He is of course targetting the INDIAN Muslim
community (of that era) as being responsible for their own misery
and penury. At the same time, I suspect that he is also sort of
hinting that the Muslim "expansion" has more or less stopped after
reaching India. {"Ganga" here is a symbolic representation of the
country.}. The Muslim faith has not expanded further towards other
regions in East Asia. How else can we explain the word "Doobna" ?
If he is only talking about the overall failures of the community
throughout the world, why single out "Ganga" for the (final) act of
drowning ? And what is the significance of the word "dahaana" ?
"Dahaana" is a river-mouth or sort of 'estuary'. So the mouth of
the Ganges probably signifies the Bay of Bengal. That is where
Muslim expansion and the spread of the faith ended. Just my view !"
My take is that "Gangaa kaa dahaanah" is just a convenient location to sink the fleet, because as for as Hindustan is concerned, the river Ganges holds a very special place and therefore citing the name of any one of the other rivers would not have had the same effect. Still thinking in imaginary terms, the fleet would have had to travel across the Indian ocean and as it got to the mouth of the Ganges (which co-incidentally is formed with the waters of the Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers), it sank. I think the implication is that the Muslims did not live up to their potential within India anywhere near that achieved by their forefathers elsewhere and it came to an abrupt end no sooner than it had begun. Hence the mouth of the Ganges and no further than that. Besides, Muslims did get beyond the Bay of Bengal, to Malaysia and beyond to Indonesia. Just my view, to quote you.
Naseer
"And finally, my own take on the impugned 'baNd' from Maulana Haali's Musaddas. Let us examine its text :
Woh deen-e-Hijaazi ka be~baak beRa
NishaaN jis ka aqsaa-e-'aalam men pahuNcha
Mazaahim huwa koi KHatra na jis ka
Na 'UmmaaN men ThiTka, na Qulzum men jhijka
Kiye pai~sipar jis ne saatoN samaNdar
Woh Dooba dahaane men Ganga ke aa kar
If you read the complete Musaddas, the Maulana is describing how
the Islamic faith originating in Arabia (Hijaaz) expanded through-
out the world. He is of course targetting the INDIAN Muslim
community (of that era) as being responsible for their own misery
and penury. At the same time, I suspect that he is also sort of
hinting that the Muslim "expansion" has more or less stopped after
reaching India. {"Ganga" here is a symbolic representation of the
country.}. The Muslim faith has not expanded further towards other
regions in East Asia. How else can we explain the word "Doobna" ?
If he is only talking about the overall failures of the community
throughout the world, why single out "Ganga" for the (final) act of
drowning ? And what is the significance of the word "dahaana" ?
"Dahaana" is a river-mouth or sort of 'estuary'. So the mouth of
the Ganges probably signifies the Bay of Bengal. That is where
Muslim expansion and the spread of the faith ended. Just my view !"
My take is that "Gangaa kaa dahaanah" is just a convenient location to sink the fleet, because as for as Hindustan is concerned, the river Ganges holds a very special place and therefore citing the name of any one of the other rivers would not have had the same effect. Still thinking in imaginary terms, the fleet would have had to travel across the Indian ocean and as it got to the mouth of the Ganges (which co-incidentally is formed with the waters of the Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers), it sank. I think the implication is that the Muslims did not live up to their potential within India anywhere near that achieved by their forefathers elsewhere and it came to an abrupt end no sooner than it had begun. Hence the mouth of the Ganges and no further than that. Besides, Muslims did get beyond the Bay of Bengal, to Malaysia and beyond to Indonesia. Just my view, to quote you.
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
Mar 21, 2014, 8:20:34 PM3/21/14
to
We (i.e. you, yours truly and other ALUPers) can interpret this
particular 'baNd' of the Musaddas in so many ways, but each such
interpretation would be just one particular view. It may not
be possible to arrive at ONE final view, as the ONLY correct
interpretation. Having made this profound (!!) observation,
let me come to the point.....
I agree that the river Ganges holds a very special place. Iqbal
also mentioned it in his "Taraana" :
Ai aab~rood-e-Ganga, woh din haiN yaad tujh ko
But, did Haali really believe that "Muslims did NOT live up to
their potential within India anywhere near that achieved by their
forefathers elsewhere ?" I doubt it. And why add : ".......it
(potential ? or influence ?) came to an abrupt end no sooner than
it had begun" ? Muslim hegemony in India lasted in India for
several centuries. It is common knowledge that Muslim rule in
India lasted for (about) seven centuries. So it doesn't quite
seem that Maulana Haali believed the Muslim beRa (fleet) as
"coming to an abrupt end, no sooner than it had begun".
Now, let us consider the area/regions/countries beyond India's
eastern frontiers. It is no doubt true that Muslims (i.e. Arab)
traders and businessmen did travel to these countries around and
after the 7th century of the Christian Era. I think their advent
in Kerala (southern state of the Indian peninsula) even preceded
the invasion of Sindh by Mohammed Bin Qaasim. Kerala is supposed
to have trade contacts with the Arabs even before the advent of
Islam.
The Arabs did travel to countries in South-East Asia, but it is
to be noted that these were traders and did not set out as con-
querors. Countries like Malaya, which is today included as part
of Malaysia, and Singapore etc. were British colonies. Indonesia
was, till the late 1940's), a Dutch colony. It should be remem-
bered that Maulana Haali has been talking about Muslim overlord-
ship or suzerainty.
With due respect,
Afzal
syedmer...@gmail.com
Jul 16, 2020, 10:08:08 AM7/16/20
to
Mozahim means hurdle or hindrance
Naseer
Jul 16, 2020, 10:17:39 AM7/16/20
to
On Thursday, 16 July 2020 15:08:08 UTC+1, syedmer...@gmail.com wrote:
> Mozahim means hurdle or hindrance
Yes, thank you. I translated it as "impediment" which means the samething as your suggestions.
> Mozahim means hurdle or hindrance
Naseer
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