abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5]
Yogesh
abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5]
==========================
Deadline: June07, 2005
Friends:
This is the fifth episode of the series. See the companion post
for submission format.
The 'Judge' this time is our beloved shaa'ir
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
I , Yogesh Sethi will be the host (aka Conductor).
The rules for this series are given below at the end.
A. behr aur zameen: Meter and rhyming pattern
------------------------------------------
The following sh'er will be used as the matla of the Ghazal.
Please note: there is no 'radiif' -
[a Ghair muraddaf Ghazal] - for this episode only.
na sochaa, na samjhaa, na seekhaa, na jaanaa
mujhe aa gayaa Khud-ba-Khud dil lagaanaa [Meer Taqi 'Meer']
-------------
B. Examples
--------
Several examples of famous ash'aar by the *Masters* and other
popular poets ...
Ghazal us ne Che.Ree, mujhe saaz denaa
zaraa umr.e.raftah ko aavaaz denaa! - [Riyaz Khairabadi]
pahaa.Do.n kii vo mast-o-shaadaab vaadii
jahaa.n ham dil-e-naGmaa Khavaa.n chho.D aaye - [Habib Jalib]
muraa deN GhareeboN kee bar laane vaa laa
vo nabiyo.n me.n rahmat laqab paane vaalaa - [Hali]
tire ishq kii iNtehaa chaahtaa huuN,
miri saadgii dekh, kyaa chaahtaa huuN! - [Iqbal]
ye kuuche ye niilaam ghar dil_kashii ke - [Sahir]
ye mahlo.n, ye taKhto.n, ye taajo.n, ki duniyaa - [Sahir]
C. taqtee'
-------
This behr can be split into syllables as follows:
(fu U lun - fu U lun - fu U lun - fu U lun)
( 122 - 122 - 122 - 122)
Here is an excerpt on this meter from an article by
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
---START quote:
(English Translation by : Vasmi Abidi)
For example, look at this misra:
umeedeN GhareeboN kee bar laane vaalaa (Molana Hali)
In this misra, the words "kee" and "ne" are written apparently as long,
and also look as if they have a long sound. But when read, in both
cases the "ye" is suppressed. That is, although "kee" and "ne" are
written with two Huroof each, when they are read, the sound of only one
Harf (kaaf zer 'ki' and noon zer 'ne') is
produced. Thus, the arrangement of this misra may be described using
the above-mentioned symbols as:
umeedeN GhareeboN kee bar laa ne vaalaa
s-l-l s-l-l s-l-l s-l-l
To further clarify this point, suppose we write "kee" and "ne" with
their apparent
long sounds; then, the symbolic representation will be:
umeeden GhareeboN kee bar laa ne vaa laa
s-l-l s-l-l l-l-l l-l-l
If you read this form, it will be immediately apparent that the misra
does not flow (or "roll off the tongue") properly; it sounds unbalanced
and inappropriate. This is because we have given "kee" and "ne"
artificial sounds that go against (their sounds in) natural
conversation. Therefore the correct symbolic representation of this
misra is that which was described earlier, which is:
s-l-l s-l-l s-l-l s-l-l
In the description above, we have used 's' and 'l' as symbols. This
system is adequate for explaining, but for use in shaa'iree a better
system is required. If we had some words that that could represent in
symbolic form all words and patterns of Urdu, our job would become
easier.
Fortunately, our elders had figured out such symbols ages ago.
Therefore, in ilm.e.arooz another system is used to represent the
different sounds. In this system, certain dummy words are used that are
able to represent all possible permutations of the arrangements of Urdu
sounds.
Such words are called afaa-eel' or "arkaan" (plural of "rukn"). These
afaa-eel or arkaan are only 8 in number, and are written below:
(2) Khamaasee afaa-eel : Those afaa-eel that contain 5 Huroof. There
are 2 of these:
(a) fa-oo-lun fe, ain, vav, laam, noon
---END quote.
For more on this meter see the articles elsewhere.
D: Rules of this Series: abhii Ghazal jawaan hai
***********************************
Title: 'abhii Ghazal jawaan hai' shall be the title of this series to
which [1], [2], [3]', etc. shall be appended to indicate episode
number.
Purpose: The purpose of this series is to provide a venue for the
aspiring poets who may find in it an outlet for their creative urges.
The central aim of the series is to educate new and aspiring poets in
the subtleties and nuances of Urdu poetry. This is NOT a competition,
or a test of poetic mettle or caliber.
Host/Conductor: Each episode of this series shall be carried forward by
a conductor who will also request the help of an experienced poet to
act as chief judge. Each episode will be run by a different conductor
and a different judge to the extent possible.
Episode: The episode conductor will pick the 'bahr', 'qaafiya' and
'radiif'. Every attempt will be made by the conductor to choose an
easy to moderately difficult combination. He will also post the
guiding couplet, its syllabic distribution and the name of the meter.
Time Period: There will be one episode per month. Each episode will
remain current for a period of 3 weeks. The last week of the month
will be used by the conductor in putting together the finished ghazal
and preparing for the next episode thru a new conductor. If the
conductor determines that there are insufficient entries for an episode
he may recommend the termination of that episode. Posting of 3 or more
entries by the participants, during the first two week period, shall be
deemed sufficient to continue with the episode. If there is an
overabundance of enteries for an episode, the conductor may declare
that episode closed for fresh entries. But will make an effort to
process the entries already received during the first two weeks of the
episode. However only a maximum of first 15 approved couplets will be
included in the finished ghazal.
Participants: Every one is eligible to post one couplet for each
episode. In addition he/she may comment and suggest alternate lines on
any posted couplet. However, experienced poets are requested to refrain
from suggesting alternate words or lines. Experienced poets would be
expected to contribute a suitable 'matlaa' or a 'matlaa-e-saanii'. But
they may also write a 'sher', if they so desire. If more than two
'matlaa(s)' are received, chief judge will select the most suitable
ones for inclusion in the ghazal.
Judge: Following a good critique and review,the judge will
give a final approval to each acceptable couplet for inclusion in the
finished ghazal. In the event that no suitable 'matlaa' has been
received, the judge will be expected to fill the gap by writing one.
There will be no 'maqtaa'.
Finished ghazal: It will be the duty of the conductor to corral all
approved material and post it in the form of a finished ghazal.
All interested are invited to volunteer their names to act as future
episode conductors. Any one may propose the name of a person who may
act as an episode judge; it must be seconded by at least one episode
conductor or by another judge. Please contact me by email for any
suggestions.
Yogesh Sethi
ylsethi at hotmail dot com
-----------------
[Those who are new to ALUP are requested to read all the previous
posts related to the 'abhi Ghazal jawaan hai' series, in order to
familiarize themselves with the history of the series. One way of
accessing those posts is by searching for "Ghazal jawaan hai" via
the Google Groups' (http://groups.google.com) archives of the
newsgroup 'alt.language.urdu.poetry'.]
Yogesh
Welcome to: abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5].
Deadline: June 07, 2005
Meter: 122-122-122-122
Guiding Couplet:
na sochaa, na samjhaa, na seekhaa, na jaanaa
mujhe aa gayaa Khud-ba-Khud dil lagaanaa
[Meer Taqi 'Meer']
Sarwar Sahib, here is my submission for your critique:
--------------------------------------
Please see the lead post for all the details.
Type your creation and name between the lines.
Delete the text below the second line and submit
by posting - do not email.
Thank you, and good luck.
Regards,
Yogesh
Yogesh
> Welcome to: abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5].
> Deadline: June 07, 2005
> Meter: 122-122-122-122
> Guiding Couplet:
> na sochaa, na samjhaa, na seekhaa, na jaanaa
> mujhe aa gayaa Khud-ba-Khud dil lagaanaa
> [Meer Taqi 'Meer']
> ---------------------------------------
Sarwar Sahib, here is my submission for your critique:
kahaa.n kho gaye hai.n sukhanvar hamaare
inhe.n Khuub aataa hai mahfil sajaanaa
nahii.n, nahii.n ye merii entry nahii.n hai saahib - ye sirf mahaul par
ek nazar kii hai.
ab is la.Rii ke liye pesh-e-Khidmat kartaa huu.n apanii ek nachhiiz
koshish:
meraa dil churaa kar kahaa.n chhup gaye ho
tumhe.n Khuub aataa hai mujh ko sataanaa
aap kii islaah ka intizaar rahega.
Regards,
Yogesh
Raz
Yogesh SaaHeb: namaskaar!
AGJH #5 meN aap kee yeh peshkash takneekee (technical) liHaaz^ se
achh`ee hai. albattah Khayaal aisaa nayaa naheeN hai. waise ab naye
Khayaal kahaaN reh gaYe haiN? is saadah Khayaal ko achh`ee adaa,igee se
aur achh`aa banaayaa jaa saktaa hai.
meraa dil churaa kar kahaa.n chhup gaye ho
tumhe.n Khuub aataa hai mujh ko sataanaa
is she'r kee saadagee ke pesh-e-naz^ar is meN tarmeem kee bohat kam
gunjaa,ish hai. aur yeh koyee Hairat kaa maqaam naheeN hai. t^araH
aasaan hai, zameen (radeef+qaafiye) zarKhez (ferile) hai (ya'nee is
zameen meN bohat se achh`e achh`e qaafiye mil jaaYeN ge), aur beHr
mutarannim (achh`e tarannum waalee) hai! ab sawaal yeh reh jaataa hai
keh ham she'r ko behtar banaane ke liYe kyaa kar sakte haiN? is kee
kayee SoorateN haiN albattah yeh kehnaa keh kisee ek Soorat ke apnaane
se she'r yaqeena" behtar ho jaaYe gaa :subjective: hai! yeh mumkin hai
keh maiN jis tabdeelee ko behtar samajh`taa hooN woh auroN kee naz^ar
meN aisee achh`ee nah ho!
(1) alfaaz^ kee "heraa-ph`eree" akcar kaam aa jaatee hai. ya'nee apne
alfaaz^ ko "idh`ar se udh`ar" kar ke muKhtalif :combinations: meN
dekh`eN keh bayaan kee koyee aur behtar Soorat mumkin hai yaa naheeN?
(2) agar kisee miSre' kee bunat (construct) "sapaaT" (ya'nee, be-acar =
ineffective) ho to us ko badal sakte haiN yaa alfaaz^ kee tabdeelee se
bayaan ko ziyaadah mu,accar banaane kee koshish kar sakte haiN.
aap ke she'r meN mujh` ko do baateN naz^ar aayeeN jin se behtaree kee
ummeed hai. in meN "meraa" ko "miraa" karnaa shaamil naheeN hai. aap ko
i'lm hai keh wazn ke liYe "miraa" kehnaa Z^arooree hai. is :typo: ko
durust kar leejiYe:
(a) pehle miSre' ko :ulaT-pulaT: kar dekh` leN keh is se koyee farq
paRtaa hai keh naheeN? yeh Khayaal rahe keh a'am bol-chaal aur
shaa,i'ree kee zabaan meN akcar farq hotaa hai. ya'nee woh
seedh`aa-saadah andaaz-e-bayaan jo bol-chaal meN :chal jaataa: hai,
shaa,i'ree meN :teekh`aa: kar diyaa jaaYe to bh`alaa lagtaa hai.
(b) mujh` ko doosraa miSra' "sapaaT" meHsoos ho rahaa hai. baat
seedh`ee hai is liYe andaaz bh`ee saadah hai. ab is ko ziyaada pur-acar
(effective) banaane ke liYe sawaaliyah bh`ee banaayaa jaa saktaa hai!
is t^araH she'r meN ek halkee see Hairaanee aur uljh`an kee kaifiyyat
paidaa kee jaa saktee hai.
aur in baatoN se aisaa zabardast farq naheeN bh`ee paRaa to kam se kam
yeh Hasrat to naheeN reh jaaYe gee keh koshish kar ke dekh` lete to
behtar hotaa!
to ho jaaYe ek aur koshish Yogesh jee?
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Yogesh
Sarwar Sahib: aadaab,
Thank you very much for your detailed reply - something along the
lines that I expected. I hope you would not mind if I try to raise the
level of my couplets presented slowly. After all it is a tutorial and
considering the traffic, I can't help but try to take advantage of it
and keep our dialogue going, at least for a while. Your comments are
very valuable, not only for me, but also for all the budding poets
seeking the zenith - the basic purpose of this thread. Please tell
us, if the following couplet will constitute an improvement:
agar tum samjhate mire dil ke naGme
muhabbat ko merii bhii miltaa Thikaanaa
Regards,
Yogesh
Raz
is silsileh (series) kaa maqSad aap ne b.ilkul Th`eek samjh`aa aur
samjh`aayaa hai! ek baat Z^aroor hai keh aap ne she'r badal diyaa to us
se yeh naheeN z^aahir ho sakaa keh aap apne pehle she`r meN kyaa
tabdeelee kar ke us ko behtar banaa sakte th`e!
----------------------------------
agar tum samjhate mire dil ke naGme
muhabbat ko merii bhii miltaa Thikaanaa
waah, waah! yeh she'r yaqeena" bohat achh`aa hai! is meN bh`ee iSlaaH
kee gunjaa,ish bohat kam hai! chooN.k aap kee muHabbat apne :Th`ikaane:
kee talaash meN hai aur "shaa,i'raanah muHabbat" meN (bal.k "aSlee"
muHabbat meN bh`ee!) meHboobah se dukh` dard hee ziyaadah miltaa hai,
is liYe meree tajweez yeh ho gee keh aap "naGhme" ko aise kisee
lafz^/oN se badal kar dekh`eN jin se she'r meN "pathos" paidaa ho
jaaYe. is ke ba'd aap kaa yeh she'r :daaKhil-e-daftar: (accept) ho
jaaYe gaa!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwa:
Roshan Kamath
> Welcome to: abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5].
> Deadline: June 07, 2005
> Meter: 122-122-122-122
> Guiding Couplet:
> na sochaa, na samjhaa, na seekhaa, na jaanaa
> mujhe aa gayaa Khud-ba-Khud dil lagaanaa
> [Meer Taqi 'Meer']
> ---------------------------------------
Sarwar Sahib, here is my submission for your critique:
talab naShSha-E maE-ye `irfA.n ki haE tO
KharAbAt-e har dil k(A) dar kHaT-kHaTAnA
Apparently this zamIn is fertile, but the lack of a
radIf played quite a havoc with my attempts to
formulate a coherent thought. Not quite certain if this
one cuts it - and if the lines flow well together.
Looking forward to your much valued islAh,
regards,
rosh
Yogesh
Thank you for the hint. I believe, I understand it - changing, 'dil
ke naGme' into 'dil ke naale' or dil ki aahe.n' would prbably
do the trick and meet your approval. But please do not approve it, not
yet. I wish to have as many couplets reviewed by you as possible within
the permissible time. Towards the end we can work on whichever you deem
better.
I see Rosh Sb. has thrown a curve ball - I don't understand the
meaning of his couplet and shall wait to see your or his explanation of
it. However it does raise the bar - something that I had been trying
to do in my own efforts also. Since the meter is fairly easy, the
effort has to be concentrated on the idea. I wonder, if you will
consider giving grades to the submitted couplets, so that every one can
make an effort to raise the level. In my opinion, the first couplet
that I submitted would get a 'C' where as the second one, after the
substitution of 'naale' for 'naGhma' could fetch a 'B-'.
Now here are two more: on completely different themes, and might merit
a better grade. Kindly give us your opinion:
shahar ke hai.n baasii, saliiqaa suhaanaa
milaa haath jo bhii voh Kha.njar puraanaa
chitaa par mirii tum na ghii ko lagaanaa
sulag kar jiyaa huu.n sulagataa jalaanaa
Looking forward to hearing from you. Regards,
Yogesh
Roshan Kamath
> I see Rosh Sb. has thrown a curve ball - I don't understand the
> meaning of his couplet and shall wait to see your or his explanation
of
> it.
Mebbe what I submitted is truly meaningless & unobvious. That must also
be why Sarwar Sb. hasn't yet had the heart to give his opinion on it!
In what little time I spent on it, I was quite handicapped due to the
lack of radIf ... and I thought not having the radIf would be easier!
Curious, innit? And there I was trying to juggle & force into the She`r
multiple images that were swirling in my head ...
Lemme see if I can come up with a much more obvious She`r in the
meantime.
cheers,
rosh
Raj Kumar
> Yogesh wrote:
> > Welcome to: abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5].
> > Deadline: June 07, 2005
> > Meter: 122-122-122-122
> > Guiding Couplet:
> > na sochaa, na samjhaa, na seekhaa, na jaanaa
> > mujhe aa gayaa Khud-ba-Khud dil lagaanaa
> > [Meer Taqi 'Meer']
> > ---------------------------------------
>
>
> talab naShSha-E maE-ye `irfA.n ki haE tO
> KharAbAt-e har dil k(A) dar kHaT-kHaTAnA
>
> Apparently this zamIn is fertile, but the lack of a
> radIf played quite a havoc with my attempts to
> formulate a coherent thought.
That this 'zameen' is fertile is JUST an illusion ---------- in fact,
when UVR saahib proposed this zameen, I immediately felt that this
choice is going to cause havoc ----- but Yogesh saahib, in his honest
earnestness, accepted it so READILY that we had no recourse!
meri raaye meiN, Ghair-muraddif zameeneN ne'emat bhi ho sakti haiN aur
zaihmat bhi ------- depending on who is going to work on them. And,
judging by all that I have seen so far on this topic, it has been the
latter! :(
> talab naShSha-E maE-ye `irfA.n ki haE tO
> KharAbAt-e har dil k(A) dar kHaT-kHaTAnA
Here, I must agree with Yogesh saahib in that ------ I have absolutely
no idea what this she'r means or is supposed to mean! Forgetting that
----- the she'r has at leat one SERIOUS defect of construction which I
wouldn't have expected from as learned a person as Rosh saahib!
nashsha-e-mai-e-irfaaN ----------- yahaaN lafz 'mai' ki 'ye' be-jaa
phaili hu'i hai jab-k ise sukaRna chaahiye thaa:
"mai-e-irfaaN" should be 1222, not 2122 (as Rosh saahib has used!).
Khair, yeh to takneeki baat thi ------------ magar ziyaada aham baat to
yeh hai k is she'r ke maa'ni kyaa haiN?
Raj Kumar
Roshan Kamath
> > talab naShSha-E maE-ye `irfA.n ki haE tO
> > KharAbAt-e har dil k(A) dar kHaT-kHaTAnA
>
> Here, I must agree with Yogesh saahib in that ------ I have
absolutely
> no idea what this she'r means or is supposed to mean! Forgetting that
> ----- the she'r has at leat one SERIOUS defect of construction which
I
> wouldn't have expected from as learned a person as Rosh saahib!
That you call me "learned" is but an indication of your generosity!
However, from my side, I can only *pretend* to be learned and wise, for
I know that I have ways and ways to go when it comes to urdU language
and poetry. For instance:
> nashsha-e-mai-e-irfaaN ----------- yahaaN lafz 'mai' ki 'ye' be-jaa
> phaili hu'i hai jab-k ise sukaRna chaahiye thaa:
>
> "mai-e-irfaaN" should be 1222, not 2122 (as Rosh saahib has used!).
You see, I've always considered and pronounced the word "maE" with a
final long vowel ... ie. I was under the impression that the "ye" in
the word "maE" serves the purpose of a vowel and not of a consonant.
(Hence, I didn't think it incorrect to use the "aE" here as a long
syllable ...)
Your post has enlightened me that this is obviously not the case! I
guess, the word should be "may" (or "mey") ... & so I've been
pronouncing this word wrong all along! If it is "may", I can readily
see why "may-e `irfA.n" scans as SSLL (or SLLL) and never as LSLL.
Many many thanks for pointing this out. I learnt something new today!
> Khair, yeh to takneeki baat thi ------------ magar ziyaada aham baat
to
> yeh hai k is she'r ke maa'ni kyaa haiN?
Now that this She`r is out of the foray, I can try and put forth what I
was thinking when I penned it down. It was a jumble of emotions and the
images are not entirely conventional, but here goes:
I first create a metaphor/comparision. ie. I term knowledge as
metaphorical wine. Then, I might as well ask, do you simply desire this
wine? Or do you want to be really *intoxicated* by it? (aka. complete
and total imbibing). The first line effectively asks, "Do you desire
this intoxication of knowlege"?
The second line creates a similar & corresponding metaphor. It labels
the heart as a metaphorical tavern. Now, what does one get in a tavern?
I suppose it is wine. [A corresponding image I had in my head was the
colour of blood and wine to further this parallel: The heart is the
'station' for the blood, the tavern is the station for the wine.] So,
go and search in the taverns that I talk of if you really desire _the_
intoxication.
More simply put, "True" knowledge resides in the hearts (aka
emotions/soul). (Implicit in it is the idea that if you are digging
your intellect then you will be disappointed. As they say, "*Feel* the
Force, Luke".)
Oh well, back to the drafting board,
rosh
Raj Kumar
> Raj Kumar Sahib, AdAb!
>
> > > talab naShSha-E maE-ye `irfA.n ki haE tO
> > > KharAbAt-e har dil k(A) dar kHaT-kHaTAnA
> >
> > Here, I must agree with Yogesh saahib in that ------ I have
> absolutely
> > no idea what this she'r means or is supposed to mean! Forgetting
that
> > ----- the she'r has at leat one SERIOUS defect of construction
which
> I
> > wouldn't have expected from as learned a person as Rosh saahib!
>
> That you call me "learned" is but an indication of your generosity!
No, no, no, Rosh ji,! This is not my generosity --- this is just the
'vague' impression I gathered from your "goona-gooN" posts on ALUP! :)
> However, from my side, I can only *pretend* to be learned and wise,
for
> I know that I have ways and ways to go when it comes to urdU language
> and poetry. For instance:
>
>
> > nashsha-e-mai-e-irfaaN ----------- yahaaN lafz 'mai' ki 'ye' be-jaa
> > phaili hu'i hai jab-k ise sukaRna chaahiye thaa:
> >
> > "mai-e-irfaaN" should be 1222, not 2122 (as Rosh saahib has used!).
>
> You see, I've always considered and pronounced the word "maE" with a
> final long vowel ... ie. I was under the impression that the "ye" in
> the word "maE" serves the purpose of a vowel and not of a consonant.
> (Hence, I didn't think it incorrect to use the "aE" here as a long
> syllable ...)
>
> Your post has enlightened me that this is obviously not the case! I
> guess, the word should be "may" (or "mey") ... & so I've been
> pronouncing this word wrong all along! If it is "may", I can readily
> see why "may-e `irfA.n" scans as SSLL (or SLLL) and never as LSLL.
>
>
huzoor, lafz 'mai', ba-zaat-Khud, = 2, as in Ghaalib's famous misra
"mai ser Gharaz nashaat hai kis roo-siyaaah ko?"
albatta, izaafat ki baat muKhtalif hai ------ just look at the opening
line of a beauuuuuuuuuutiful qit'a by Hayaat Lakhnavi,
"mai-e-nashaat" ka ik daur aur chalne do"!
See? mai-e-nashaat = 12121, NOT 22121.
Khair, chaliye, yeh to maihz 'takneekii' baat thii, ab chaliye aap ki
be-raNg shaam ko suhaani banaane ke liye Hayaat saahib ka pooraa qit'a
haazir kiye deta hooN; farmaate haiN k
mai-e-nashaat ka ik daur aur chalne do
nihaal-e-shauq ko is taur aur phalne do
jo aihl-e-dil haiN, mubaarak unheN faroGh-e-hayaat
jo jal rahe haiN, unheN AUR AUR jalne do!
mu'aaf keejiye, qibla, aap ki is 'guNjhlak' vazaahat ko paRh kar mujhe
Qais saahib ka aek sh'er yaad aa rahaa hai; farmaate haiN k
tire ishaaroN se baRh kar tiraa bayaaN mub_ham
maiN terii baat ko samjhooN to tujh se baat karooN! :)
Raj Kumar
Zoya
> tire ishaaroN se baRh kar tiraa bayaaN mub_ham
> maiN terii baat ko samjhooN to tujh se baat karooN! :)
>
> Raj Kumar
R.K. Sahib,
chaliiye, lage haathoN maiN bhii ek sher Rosh Sahib kii nazr kartii
chaluuN:
mileN jab un_se to mubHam sii gufat_guu karnaa,
phir apne aap se sau sau vazaahateiN karniiN!!!
Aur R. K. Sahib, aap aaj kal Alup waaloN ke saath bahut ziyaadatii kar
rahe haiN, abhii kal hii maiN_ne aap_kii ek behtariin taazah ghazal ek
aur forum par dekhii hai. aap jaldii se use Alup par le aaiiye, varnaa
maiN 'copyright law' kii parwah kiye ba_ghair use vahaaN se 'copy' kar
ke yahaaN 'paste' kar duuNgii!!
aur yeh sher aap_kii nazr hai:
kuChh miri aawaargii kii reh muttayyin Khud hii kar,
tuu kahaaN hotaa hai, kin galiiyoN meiN maiN ghuumaa karuuN ?!
Feeling like a step child,
______________Zoya
Raz
maiN aap kee aur deegar dostoN kee Khat^-o-kitaabat se bohat
lut^f-andoz huwaa. Yogesh SaaHeb ne aap ke she'r ko :curve ball: kahaa
aur aap ne himmat haar dee! tch! tch! aise kaise kaam chale gaa, Roshan
jee? meraa intiz^aar to kar liyaa hotaa! :-)
mere der se aane kee ek vajh meree Ghair-ma'moolee maSroofiyat hai.
doosree vajh ph`ir kabh`ee sahee! aap ke she'r kaa bunyaadee Khayaal
maiN samajh` gayaa th`aa. haaN! us kee adaa,igee se maiN mut^ma,in
naheeN th`aa aur ab bh`ee naheeN hooN. aap kaa qaafiyah
:kh`aT-kh`aTaanaa: bohat kh`aTak rahee hai aur is kee iSlaah (maZ^moon
ko qaa,im rakh`te huYe) KhaaSee mushkil hai! ab jab.k aap ne
:hath`iyaar Daal diYe haiN: to maiN apnee koshish pesh kartaa hooN aur
is ko samjh`aataa bh`ee hooN. ummeed hai keh agar is se logoN ko
faa,idah naheeN bh`ee huwaa to nuqSaan bh`ee naheeN ho gaa!
ek baat aur! maiN is se ittifaaq naheeN kartaa keh yeh zameen mushkil
hai. meraa yaqeen hai keh zameen nau-mashq (naYe likh`ne waaloN) ke
liYe bh`ee nisbata" aasaan hai. Z^aroorat ek :fertile imagination: aur
zabaan-o-bayaan ke munaasib i'lm kee hai! aur maiN jaantaa hooN keh yeh
aap ke paas hai.
Raj Kumar "Qais" SaaHeb "mai" kee bunat (construct) aur wazn par baat
kar hee chuke haiN. un kee baat b.ilkul SaHeeH hai aur is liYe is baare
meN maiN kuch` naheeN kahooN gaa. dar-aSl :mai-e-i'rfaaN: kee tarkeeb
ko is wazn meN naheeN baaNdh`aa jaa saktaa hai. ya'nee alfaaz^ kee
:heraa-ph`eree: se yeh mushkil Hal karnee ho gee. maiN apnee koshish
pesh karne se pehle taSawwuf kee ek iSt^ilaaH kaa Zikr kar dooN to
behtar ho gaa.
Arabee meN :huwa-Allah: (pronounced as "huwallah") ke ma'nee haiN :He
is The God: aur is ko ista'maal kar ke Soofee apnaa dil Allah kee
jaanib le jaate haiN. woh :Allah-hoo: (God is He!) kaa na'rah lagate
haiN. yeh :huwallah: hee hai lekin is meN :emphasis: baRh gayaa hai. ab
agar ham :baadah-e-hoo: kaheN to us se muraad :Allah kee ma'rafat:
(pehchaan aur us se qurbat) kaa e'laan liyaa jaaYe gaa. ya'nee :woh
sharaaab jo aap ko Allah se qareeb kar de:! is manzil tak poNhachne ke
liYe :daar-e-ulfat: (muHabbat kee soolee) par chaRh`naa paRtaa hai. jab
yeh Khayaal Zehn meN jagah paa gayaa to she'r yooN kehnaa aasaan ho
gayaa:
t^alab nashshah-e-baadah-e-hoo kee gar hai
tujh`e chaahiYe daar-e-ulfat pah jaanaa!
baat lambee ho gayee. ab aap log bataaYen keh meree baat banee keh
naheeN? maiN aap ke doosre she'r kaa intiz^aar kar rahaa hooN!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Raz
aap ke Hukm kee ta'meel meN maiN aap ke pich`le she'r ko apnee jagah
ch`oRtaa hooN aur un do asha'ar kee t^araf aataa hooN jo aap ne ab diYe
haiN:
-------------------
(1)
shahar ke hai.n baasii, saliiqaa suhaanaa
milaa haath jo bhii voh Kha.njar puraanaa
pehlee baat to yeh hai keh SaHeeH lafz^ :shehr: hai :shehar: naheeN
hai. ya'nee Harf :hey: ko kisee qism kee Harakat (zer, zabar) naheeN
dee jaaYe gee jaisaa keh aap ne kiyaa hai. aap kee Ghalat^ee naheeN
hai. sab :shehar: hee kehte haiN! Khair! a'am bol-chaal meN yeh chal
jaaYe gaa lekin shaa,i'ree meN naheeN chal saktaa hai. is se ziyaadah
aham (Z^arooree) baat yeh hai keh aap ke she'r kaa koyee mat^lab meree
samajh` meN naheeN aa sakaa hai! aap apne Zehn meN is kaa mat^lab Saaf
keejiYe aur ek baar ph`ir durust kar ke laa,iYe. dhannyawaad!
----------------------------------
(2)
chitaa par mirii tum na ghii ko lagaanaa
sulag kar jiyaa huu.n sulagataa jalaanaa
mujh`e aap kaa Khayaal pasand aayaa. albattah is kee adaa,igee meN
kayee mushkileN haiN:
(1) :gh`ee lagaanaa: muHaavirah naheeN hai! aap :jalaanaa: keh sakte
haiN. ho saktaa hai keh Hindi meN :chitaa par gh`ee lagaanaa: kahaa
jaataa ho. is kaa mujh` ko i'lm naheeN hai.
(2) :sulagtaa jalaanaa: Th`eek zabaan naheeN hai. is ko durust karnaa
Z^arooree hai. agar aap kisee t^arah she'r meN yeh keh sakeN keh
:zindagee bh`ar sulagtaa hee rahaa hooN. is liYe too marne ke ba'd
bh`ee mujh` ko :yooN: hee jalaaYe to achh`aa hai: to baat ban jaaYe
gee. dekh`iYe keh aap kyaa keh kar laate haiN!
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Zoya
aadaab,
I would like your comments/suggestions on this attempt:
na rishta hai tum_se, na kuChh rabetah hai
to kya yaad karnaa, to kyuN yaad aanaa ?!
vaise ek aur sher bhii dekh liijiiye, yeh mere zehn meiN piChhle hafteh
hii aa gayaa thaa, magar tho.Daa filmi style hai aur koii aisaa
original Khayaal bhii nahiiN hai:
tiri aarzuu hai, tiri jusatjuu hai,
agar tuu mile, Chho.D deiN yeh zamaanaa!
chaliye, ab dekheN aap log kya kehte haiN!
_____________Zoya
Yogesh
Sarwar Sahib: aadaab,
Thank you for the comments.
'ghii lagaanaa': is an expression where 'ghii' is added to the
wood as a ritual as well as to promote the fire which will smolder
otherwise. It is very different from 'ghii kaa diyaa jalaanaa'.
There is a well-known line from 'Madhushala' by Bachchan: (I am
quoting from memory):
"aur chitaa par jaaye unDelaa patr na ghrit kaa par haalaa ",
meaning, on my pyre, don't turn over a pot of 'ghii' instead make
it a pot of wine. But let us move on.
I believe that writing poetry is somewhat akin to driving, sitting on
the fence does not do much good. One has to get behind the wheel to get
the idea of the responsibility and to enjoy the full fun. I am having a
great time, and it feels like being in a convertible, on a clear spring
day, running amuck on a freeway with no other drivers in sight save
one! Let me make the most of it while the traffic is permitting. Here
are two more of my couplets for your review:
5.
na kar Gham ke duniyaa ne pherii hai.n aa.nkhe.n
ye sadiyo.n se is kaa saliiqaa puraanaa
6.
lo aa pahu.nchii hai merii aakhir kii saa'at,
jhalak apanii de kar qazaa ko bulaanaa
Regards,
Yogesh
Yogesh
der lagii aane me.n un ko
shukr hai phir bhii aaye to
ab islaah to aap ko Sarwar Sahib se hii mile gii, ham to sirf ye hii
kah sakte hai.n:
Khushaamdiid.
Regards,
Yogesh
UVR
>
> Sarwar Sahib: aadaab,
>
> Thank you for the comments.
> 'ghii lagaanaa': is an expression where 'ghii' is added to the
> wood as a ritual as well as to promote the fire which will smolder
> otherwise. It is very different from 'ghii kaa diyaa jalaanaa'.
> There is a well-known line from 'Madhushala' by Bachchan: (I am
> quoting from memory):
>
> "aur chitaa par jaaye unDelaa patr na ghrit kaa par haalaa ",
>
> meaning, on my pyre, don't turn over a pot of 'ghii' instead make
> it a pot of wine. But let us move on.
Yogesh saahib,
I think the more common expression incorporating 'ghee' and
the funeral pyre is "ghee Daalnaa" (to put/pour in/on sth.),
or, as evidenced by the Bachchan construct you have furnished
above, "ghee uNDelnaa" (to pour into/onto sth.). I personally
cannot recall having ever come across "ghee lagaana" (to apply
to sth.) except in connection with phulkas or chapatis :-)
Regards,
-UVR.
UVR
> I personally
> cannot recall having ever come across "ghee lagaana" (to apply
> to sth.) except in connection with phulkas or chapatis :-)
Oh, yes, and something these women do to, ostensibly, improve
their complexion.
-UVR.
Yogesh
UVR wrote:
UVR, saahib, aap ek aur usluub-e-bayaa.n ko bhuul rahe.n hai.n na:
panjaabii me.n ise t.Rkaa lagaanaa kahte, aur uttar pradesh me.n
maharaaj log ise chhau.nklagaanaa kahte hai - mujhe yaad aa rahaa hai
ke ek baar kisii la.Rke ne maharaaj saahib ko kahaa, is chhaunk me.n
kaafii ghii nahii.n hai, is par zaraa aur ghii lagaa
diijiye - to mahraaj saahib bole: "are ye daal hai jis ke liye kaafii
ghii lagaa diyaa hai, tumhaarii chitaa to nahii.n ke is par baar baar
'ghii lagaanaa' pa.Re gaa."
chaliye ab baataaye ke RK saahib kii baat kaa kyaa javaab hogaa -
unho.n ne to ise 'ban.jar zamiin' kaa khitaab de diyaa hai - aur aap
hai.n ke kinaare, kinaare chalte huye tuufaan kii lahro.n ka mazaa le
rahe hai. Tho.Raa vaqt nikaal kar 'maujo.n' se bhii mulaaqaat kiijiye -
Regards,
Yogesh
Zoya
ghii aur ghii ke ta.Dke ko Chho.Diye, kya aap logoN ne kabhii kisii ko
'makhkhan' bhii lagaayaa hai?!
Oh boy, and we are having this disussion under AGJH thread, sorry
Sarwar Sahib !!
______________Zoya
Yogesh
Zoya wrote:
> UVR Sahib aur Yogesh Sahib,
>
> ghii aur ghii ke ta.Dke ko Chho.Diye, kya aap logoN ne kabhii kisii
ko
> 'makhkhan' bhii lagaayaa hai?!
Zoya ji:
mai.n makh^Naa.n dii kii gal karaa.n ae habiibaa
tenuu.n dekh lai^Naa.n te dil Duub jaa^Naa.n
I mean:
tire husn kaa ab bayaa.n kyaa ho maakhan
tujhe dekh lenaa hai dil kaa khilaanaa
umiid vaar huu.n ke mere javaab se aap ko saaf zaahir ho gayaa hogaa,
ke
muddato.n pahle, hame.n bhii ek 'makha^N kaur' se jaan pahchaan thii!
:)
dekhiye, mai.n ne aap ke 'philmii' taraanaane par bhii ek javaab likhaa
hai magar, ba-qual vaa'adaa-e-iqraar, Sarwar saahib ke islaah ke baad!
Regards,
Yogesh
Raj Kumar
--------- which is AGJH[5].
R.K.
Raz
Zoya SaaHebah: aadaab a'rZ^ hai!
aap ke donoN asha'ar dekh`e aur us saaree beHc se bh`ee lut^f-andoz
huwaa jis ko RK SaaHeb ne :ek lohaar kee choaT: se :Th`ikaane lagaa kar
rakh` diyaa:! SaaHeb, yeh RK SaaHeb to waaqie'e bohat hee z^aalim haiN!
:-)
ab maiN aap kaa pehlaa she'r dekh`taa hooN. she'r yooN to Th`eek hai,
albattah :to kyaa: kee takraar ko behtar banaane kee Z^aroorat meHsoos
hotee hai. abh`ee chooN. k waqt kaafee hai, maiN aap ko ek :homework:
denaa chaahataa hooN taa.k aap par woh :aziyyat: waaZ^eh ho jaaYe jis
se Khud aap ke shaagird do-chaar hote rehte haiN! :-)
maiN doosre miSre' kee shakl badal rahaa hooN aur chaahataa hooN keh
aap us ke pesh-e-naz^ar pehlaa miSra' kaheN. aap kaa she'r hai:
na rishta hai tum_se, na kuChh rabetah hai
to kya yaad karnaa, to kyuN yaad aanaa ?!
aur meree tajweez yooN hai. :
------------------------------------------------??
tujh`e yaad karnaa, tiraa yaad aanaa!
==========================
aap kaa doosraa she'r aisaa :filmee: bh`ee naheeN hai.
tiri aarzuu hai, tiri jusatjuu hai,
agar tuu mile, Chho.D deiN yeh zamaanaa!
haaN, pehle miSre' meN :hee: kee kamee lagee. dekh`iYe aap kyaa keh kar
laatee haiN. lage haath`oN doosre miSre' par bh`ee ek nigaah Daal leN
keh is ko kuch` aur :teekh`aa: banaayaa jaa saktaa hai keh naheeN.
waise yeh aisaa Z^arooree naheeN hai.
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Raz
sab se pehle to aap kee mustaqil-mizaajee (persistence) kee daad
Z^arooree hai. lagan aisee hee honee chaahiYe!
is ke ba'd yeh kehnaa hai keh aap :saleeqah: ko :tareeqah: ke ma'nee
meN ista'maal kar rahe haiN jab.k is ke ma'nee :achh`aa t^areeqah: ke
haiN. baat :saleeqeh: see kee jaatee hai, jh`ooT bh`ee :saleeqeh: se
bolaa jaa saktaa hai aur har kaam meN :saleeqah: behtar hotaa hai.
Kaleem Ajiz kehte haiN:
baat chaahe be-saleeqah ho "Kaleem"
baat kehne kaa saleeqah chaahiYe!
aap kaa she'r hai:
na kar Gham ke duniyaa ne pherii hai.n aa.nkhe.n
ye sadiyo.n se is kaa saliiqaa puraanaa
agar :saleeqah: kee jagah :t^areeqah: kar deN to baat behtar aur SaHeeH
ho jaatee hai. albattah miSre' meN :hai: kee bohat kamee meHsoos hotee
hai. aur yehee aap ko karnaa hai keh :yeh: aur :hai: donoN hee alfaaz^
is miSre' meN aa jaaYeN! to kyaa Khayaal hai, ho jaaYe ek aur koshish?
------------------------------------
aap kaa doosraa she'r yooN hai:
lo aa pahu.nchii hai merii aakhir kii saa'at,
jhalak apanii de kar qazaa ko bulaanaa
mujh`e do (2) baateN kehnee haiN:
(1) :aaKhir kee saa,a't: SaHeeH muHaavirah naheeN hai. :aaKhiree
saa,a't: SaHeeH hai, yaa ph`ir :saa,a't-e-aaKhir:! yeh bh`ee dekh`iYe
keh :lo aa: ko :luaa: kehnaa paR rahaa hai jo kaanoN ko achh`aa naheeN
ma'loom hotaa hai. is ko bh`ee badalne kee Z^aroorat hai.
(2) doosraa miSra' ek to apne mat^lab meN Saaf naheeN hai. ya'nee aap
kaa :jh`alak apnee de kar qaZ^aa ko bulaanaa: se kyaa muraad hai?
yeh bh`ee yaad rakh`iYe ke :jh`alak dikh`aayee: jaatee hai, :dee:
naheeN jaatee hai (Hindi meN bh`ee naheeN!).
ek nuktah (point) jo bohat aham hai yeh hai keh jab :aaKhiree saa,a't:
aa hee gayee hai to :mareeZ^-e-i'shq: kee saaNs TooTne hee waalee hai.
is Haalat meN meHboobah qaZ^aa ko kaise bulaa saktee hai? woh to sar
par kh`aRee hee huyee hai! aur us ke aane-jaane kaa aap kee premikaa
kee :jh`alak: se koyee sambandh` naheeN hai. :-)
=======================
is saaree beHc se yeh ma'loom huwaa keh aap ko donoN she'r bohat Ghaur
se dekh` kar SaHeeH karne haiN. meree raaYe yeh hai keh ab doosre she'r
nah kaheN bal.k inheN hee Th`eek kareN. mumkin hai keh aap ko maZ^moon
badalnaa paRe. to koyee harj naheeN hai. she'r parakh`ne kaa ek achh`aa
t^areeqah yeh hai keh apne she'r ko nacr (prose) meN likh` kar jaaNch
leN. a'am Ghalat^iyaaN is t^araH ziyaadah z^aahir ho jaatee haiN. maiN
intiz^aar karooN gaa. shukriyah!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Zoya
> Zoya SaaHebah: aadaab a'rZ^ hai!
>
> aap ke donoN asha'ar dekh`e aur us saaree beHc se bh`ee lut^f-andoz
> huwaa jis ko RK SaaHeb ne :ek lohaar kee choaT: se :Th`ikaane lagaa
kar
> rakh` diyaa:! SaaHeb, yeh RK SaaHeb to waaqie'e bohat hee z^aalim
haiN!
> :-)
Sarwar Sahib,
sahiiH kahaa aap_ne, aaj kal RK Sahib mujhe bahut DaaNTte rahte haiN,
yaad hai abhii piChhle dinnoN Kala Sahib ke saath bhii mil gaye the!!
unheiN bataa diijiiye k agar maiN ruuTh gayii, to phir mujhe ek ghazal
likh kar manaanaa pa.Degaa, jaisa k ek baar aap_ne kiya thaa!!!
>
> ab maiN aap kaa pehlaa she'r dekh`taa hooN. she'r yooN to Th`eek hai,
> albattah :to kyaa: kee takraar ko behtar banaane kee Z^aroorat
meHsoos
>hotee hai. abh`ee chooN. k waqt kaafee hai, maiN aap ko ek :homework:
> denaa chaahataa hooN taa.k aap par woh :aziyyat: waaZ^eh ho jaaYe jis
> se Khud aap ke shaagird do-chaar hote rehte haiN! :-)
>
Sarwar Sahub, waqt bahut kam hai, I am going to be real busy the rest
of May, so can we please resolve these by the weekend?
> maiN doosre miSre' kee shakl badal rahaa hooN aur chaahataa hooN keh
> aap us ke pesh-e-naz^ar pehlaa miSra' kaheN. aap kaa she'r hai:
>
> na rishta hai tum_se, na kuChh rabetah hai
> to kya yaad karnaa, to kyuN yaad aanaa ?!
>
> aur meree tajweez yooN hai. :
>
> ------------------------------------------------??
> tujh`e yaad karnaa, tiraa yaad aanaa!
dar_asal mere zehn meiN duusre misre kii orginal shakl kuChh yuuN thii:
na ab yaad karnaa, na ab yaad aanaa
/ na tum yaad karnaa, na tum yaad aanaa
so maiN kehnaa chaaH rahii thii k maiN tumheiN kyuN yaad karuuN aur
kyuN yaad aayuuN? aap_kii tajviiz se Khayal zaraa badal gayaa hai, can
we please work/stay with the original thought? Anyway, you know that I
am more in 'yaad aanaa' league than 'yaad karnaa'!!!!
> ==========================
> aap kaa doosraa she'r aisaa :filmee: bh`ee naheeN hai.
>
> tiri aarzuu hai, tiri jusatjuu hai,
> agar tuu mile, Chho.D deiN yeh zamaanaa!
>
> haaN, pehle miSre' meN :hee: kee kamee lagee. dekh`iYe aap kyaa keh
kar
> laatee haiN. lage haath`oN doosre miSre' par bh`ee ek nigaah Daal leN
> keh is ko kuch` aur :teekh`aa: banaayaa jaa saktaa hai keh naheeN.
> waise yeh aisaa Z^arooree naheeN hai.
kya aap kuChh aisaa soch rahe haiN:
miri aarzuu hii miri jusat_juu hai,
agar voh mile, Chho.D duuN yeh zamaanaa!
or something like this?
Please reply soon, I have to start packing for my upcoming trip to
Italy!!!
Thanks Sarwar Sahib,
___________Zoya
Yogesh
Again, my thanks for you untiring devotion to this group. I hope my on
going submissions are not testing your patience. But the traffic is
still light, so permit me to go with two more new submissions:
7.
kiyaa tum ne pardaa raqiibo.n se, yaa rab,
ye hai aik lekin farebii bahaanaa
8.
jo Dhuu.nDe.n Khudaa ko to mil bhii sake gaa
magar kis ko aataa hai insaa.n milaanaa
Regards,
Yogesh
Raz
Zoya jee: sat Sri Akal!
to aap Italy jaa rahee haiN? kyaa le kar aaYeN gee mere liYe? :-)
chaliYe, aap kaa Khayaal to karnaa hee ho gaa. maiN kuch` tajweez kar
rahaa hooN. aap dekh` leN. shaayad pasand aa hee jaaYe!
-------------------------------
aap kaa she'r hai:
nah rishtah hai ham se nah kuch` raabit^ah hai
nah ab/tum yaad karnaa, nah ab/tum yaad aanaa!
meree zaatee raaYe hai keh alfaaz^ kee takraar yahaaN she'r ke Husn meN
iZ^aafah naheeN kar paa rahee hai. yooN sochiYe aur suitcase meN taalah
lagaa,iYe!
nah rishtah hai ham se, nah ab raabit^ah hai
to kyaa yaad karnaa hai, kyaa yaad aanaa!
doosre miS're kee bunat kaa taqaaZ^ah hai keh comma Z^aroor dikh`aayaa
jaaYe. magar yeh to aap jaantee hee haiN!
--------------------
doosraa she'r hai:
miree aarzoo hee miree justjoo hai
agar woh mile, ch`oR dooN yeh zamaanah
baat to munaasib hai. is ko yooN kar ke dekh`iYe to kyaa harj hai:
tiree aarzoo hee to ik aarzoo hai
agar too mile, ch`oR dooN yeh zamaanah!
====================================
jaai,Ye ab Italy kee sair keejiYe aur "gul-ch`arre" uRaai,Ye! Bon
Voyage!
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Zoya
> chaliYe, aap kaa Khayaal to karnaa hee ho gaa. maiN kuch` tajweez kar
> rahaa hooN. aap dekh` leN. shaayad pasand aa hee jaaYe!
> -------------------------------
meN
> iZ^aafah naheeN kar paa rahee hai. yooN sochiYe aur suitcase meN
taalah
> lagaa,iYe!
>
> nah rishtah hai ham se, nah ab raabit^ah hai
> to kyaa yaad karnaa hai, kyaa yaad aanaa!
Sarwar Sahib,
itnii jaldii islaaH karne ke liye bahut shukriyah!
kya maiN pehle misre meiN 'ham' kii bajaye 'tum' keh luuN?
na rishtah hai 'tum' se, na kuChh rabetah hai,
to kya yaad karnaa hai, kya yaad aanaa!
The reason I am saying this is because if we say the first misra the
way you are saying it, then it conveys that I am not incharge of the
situation at all and am just accepting it, which is not true!! Am I
making sense?
>
> doosre miS're kee bunat kaa taqaaZ^ah hai keh comma Z^aroor
dikh`aayaa
> jaaYe. magar yeh to aap jaantee hee haiN!
> --------------------
> doosraa she'r hai:
>
> baat to munaasib hai. is ko yooN kar ke dekh`iYe to kyaa harj hai:
>
> tiree aarzoo hee to ik aarzoo hai
> agar too mile, ch`oR dooN yeh zamaanah!
Once again a problem, and a big one too!
ab pehle misre se aisaa lag rah hai k 'terii aarzuu' merii ONLY aarzuu
hai!! balk sach to yeh hai k yeh bahut sii aarzuuoN meiN se ek hai!!!
So, what now? If nothing else works fast, then may be we can go back to
my very original version? I also need a second opinion on this one,
Yogesh Sahib, please?
Once again, Sarwar Sahib, thank you so much for your help and guidance!
_______________Zoya
Raz
Zoya jee:
aap :ham: kee bajaaYe :tum: Z^aroor lagaa saktee haiN. kyoN.k yeh
:control: kaa mas,alah hai aur maiN is se Khoob waaqif hooN :-( bh`ala
aap kee baat kaise nah maanooN gaa?
:ik aarzoo: meN :ik: do ma'noN meN liyaa jaa saktaa hai:
(1) bas yahee ek aarzoo hai
(2) is se aham koyee aur aarzoo hai hee naheeN
maiN ne (2) ke ma'nee meN likh`aa hai. aap chaaheN to apne version par
waapas chalee jaaYeN. aisaa nah ho keh plane ch`ooT jaaYe!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Zoya
Sarwar Sahib,
bahut bahut shukriyah!
Yogesh Sahib,
aap merii jaanib se yeh sher ghazal meiN shaamil kar liijiyegaa:
na rishtah hai tum se, na kuChh rabetah hai,
to kya yaad karnaa hai, kya yaad aanaa!
mere Khayaal meiN sirf ek hii sher kii ijaazat hai, agar baad meiN do
ashaar lene hue, to phir yeh dekh liijiyegaa:
tiri aarzuu hai, tiri jusatjuu hai,
agar tuu mile, Chho.D duuN yeh zamaanaa!
Thanks again,
Bye for now,
________________Zoya
kaam...@hotmail.com
Yogesh wrote:
> abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5]
> Deadline: June07, 2005
>
Sarwar Sahib,
As I started working on my submission, I came up with some additional
ashaar (which is VERY rare for me). I am submitting three of them
here. I will try and complete the GHazal at a later time, and might
request you to critique that as well.
yahaaN har kisii kO khushii kii talab hai
khushii hai bhalaa kyaa kisii ne na jaanaa
Garaz hii Garaz aaj duniyaa meiN kyuN hai
ye kaisaa jahaaN hai ye kaisaa zamaanaa
mohabbat, saKhaawat, musarrat, sadaaqat
inhii se banaa hai miraa aashiyaanaa
Thank You,
Kaamraan
P.S : A Work-In-Progress maqta is ...
mileeN kyaa nigaaheN miree unse, "taalib"
mizaaj ab hua KHud.ba.Khud shaairaana !
UVR
>
> yahaaN har kisii kO khushii kii talab hai
> khushii hai bhalaa kyaa kisii ne na jaanaa
>
> Garaz hii Garaz aaj duniyaa meiN kyuN hai
> ye kaisaa jahaaN hai ye kaisaa zamaanaa
>
> mohabbat, saKhaawat, musarrat, sadaaqat
> inhii se banaa hai miraa aashiyaanaa
>
> mileeN kyaa nigaaheN miree unse, "taalib"
> mizaaj ab hua KHud.ba.Khud shaairaana !
Great! Even though you have addressed your post to
Sarwar saahib directly, allow me the liberty of
saying that this is a very admirable attempt indeed,
Kaamraan saahib. If I may be so bold, the best single
set of ash'aar this thread has seen so far, IMO!
I hope Sarwar saahib will not mind my interjection.
Now that you have 4 sh'ers in hand, one of which is a
maqta', I recommend you have a go at composing a matla'
or two, and call it a Ghazal. We will be waiting.
-UVR.
PS:
- consider replacing 'bhalaa' with 'magar'
- inhii --> inheeN -- I couldn't really tell what
the sh'er is conveying here.
- I like your taKhallus
UVR
>
> yahaaN har kisii kO khushii kii talab hai
> khushii hai bhalaa kyaa kisii ne na jaanaa
>
> Garaz hii Garaz aaj duniyaa meiN kyuN hai
> ye kaisaa jahaaN hai ye kaisaa zamaanaa
>
> mohabbat, saKhaawat, musarrat, sadaaqat
> inhii se banaa hai miraa aashiyaanaa
>
> mileeN kyaa nigaaheN miree unse, "taalib"
> mizaaj ab hua KHud.ba.Khud shaairaana !
Great! Even though you have addressed your post to
Raj Kumar
> Yogesh wrote:
> > abhi Ghazal jawaan hai [5]
> > ==========================
> > Deadline: June07, 2005
> >
>
> Sarwar Sahib,
>
> As I started working on my submission, I came up with some additional
> ashaar (which is VERY rare for me). I am submitting three of them
> here. I will try and complete the GHazal at a later time, and might
> request you to critique that as well.
>
Kaamraan saahib:
I am so glad to see your 'splendid' contribution to this episode
----------- otherwise, this thread was going nowhere!
> yahaaN har kisii kO khushii kii talab hai
> khushii hai bhalaa kyaa kisii ne na jaanaa
>
> Garaz hii Garaz aaj duniyaa meiN kyuN hai
> ye kaisaa jahaaN hai ye kaisaa zamaanaa
>
> mohabbat, saKhaawat, musarrat, sadaaqat
> inhii se banaa hai miraa aashiyaanaa
>
> Thank You,
>
> Kaamraan
>
> P.S : A Work-In-Progress maqta is ...
> mileeN kyaa nigaaheN miree unse, "taalib"
> mizaaj ab hua KHud.ba.Khud shaairaana !
aap ke ash'aar par adabi raaye-zani to Sarwar saahib hi kareN ge, go k
kuchh taraameem mere zehn meiN bhi aa rahi haiN --- but I have no
problem holding them!
R.K.
kaam...@hotmail.com
> the sh'er is conveying here.
UVR sahib,
Initially I 'wanted' to say that my house is made of love, and wanted
to
use 4 synonyms of love. When I couldn't find 4 that would fit in the
behr, I thought I'd include love and kindness :-) From there on it
disintegrated into a filler first line :-( I am hoping Sarwar sahib
(and
ALUPers like yourself) will help make it better.
Kaamraan.
kaam...@hotmail.com
> ----------- otherwise, this thread was going nowhere!
RK Sahib,
'splendid', really ? You made my day :-) Thanks a bunch for the
encouragement.
It means a lot when it comes from you !
Kaamraan
Raz
Yogesh SaaHeb: aadaab!
aap ke donoN asha'ar maiN ne bohat Ghaur aur shauq se dekh`e aur aaj un
par muKhtaSar tabSirah kar rahaa hooN. aap kee meHnat aur lagan t'areef
ke qaabil haiN. maiN aap ko hadiyah-e-a'qeedat pesh kartaa hooN!
--------------------------------
kiyaa tum ne pardaa raqiibo.n se, yaa rab,
ye hai aik lekin farebii bahaanaa
she'r parakh`ne kaa ek aasaan t^areeqah yeh hai ko us ko aasaan nacr
(prose) meN likh` liyaa jaaYe aur ph`ir us kaa tajziyah (analysis)
kiyaa jaaYe. agar maiN aap ke she'r ke saath` aisaa karooN to is kee
nacr yooN ho gee:
"yaa Rab! tum ne raqeeboN se pardah kiyaa hai lekin (yeh z^aahir hai
keh) yeh ek farebee bahaanah hai".
z^aahir hai keh aap kaa Khit^aab :Rab: (Khudaa, Bhagwan) se naheeN
bal.k apnee premikaa se hai! lekin aap ke alfaaz^ se kuch` aur hee
ma'loom hotaa hai aur yeh is she'r kaa baRaa naqS (Khaamee, Kharaabee)
hai. ya'nee "yaa Rab" is meN naheeN honaa chaahiYe yaa kam se kam is
shakl meN naheeN honaa chaahiYe jis meN aap ne baaNdh`aa hai.
doosree baat yeh bh`ee dekh`ne kee hai keh :farebee bahaanah: koyee
muhaawirah/SaHeeH-fiqrah naheeN hai. har bahaane kee bunyaad :fareb:
kee kisee nah kisee shakl par hotee hai. lekin zabaan is kee ijaazat
naheeN detee hai keh us ko :farebee bahaanah: kahaa jaaYe. Sirf
:bahaanah: keh denaa hee kaafee hai.
ab aap she'r se :yaa Rab: nikaalne kee koshish keejiYe. aur doosre
miSre' ko bh`ee is t^araH badaliYe keh :farebee bahaanah: nikal jaaYe
aur miSre' meN zor paidaa ho jaaYe. macala" aap yeh keh sakte haiN keh
"raqeeboN se yeh pardah shaayad un se milne kaa ek bhaanah hai!"--yaa
aisee hee koyee aur shakl. to ek koshish aur Yogesh SaaHeb?
---------------------------------
jo Dhuu.nDe.n Khudaa ko to mil bhii sake gaa
magar kis ko aataa hai insaa.n milaanaa
is she'r meN maZ^moon achh`aa hai. haaN, is kee adaa,igee ko behtar
banaane kee Z^aroorat hai. ek to :sake gaa: kaa fiqrah bh`alaa naheeN
ma'loom ho rahaa hai. a'am t^aur se ham kehte haiN keh :jo Dh`ooNDeN to
Khudaa bh`ee mil saktaa hai: yaa :agar Dh`ooNDeN to shaayad Khudaa
bh`ee mil jaaYe:. yeh to huwaa pehlaa miSra'.
doosre miSre' meN :insaaN milaanaa: Ghalat^ fiqrah hai. ham :insaanoN
ko (aapas meN, ek doosre se) milaanaa: kehte haiN. haaN agar aap yooN
socheN keh :diloN ko milaanaa aasaan naheeN hai: to baat mo'tabar aur
SaHeeH ho jaatee hai.
----------------------
ummeed hai keh ab kee baar yeh asha'ar apne SaHeeH anjaam ko poNhach
jaaYeN ge. maiN aap kaa shukr-guZaar hooN aur asha'ar kaa muntaz^ir
bh`ee!
Sarwar A. Raz :Sarwar:
Raz
aap ko yahaaN dekh` kar masarrat huyee aur aap ke asha'ar ne is meN
mazeed iZ^aafah kiyaa. aap ke sab asha'ar mauzooN haiN aur
Khayaal-o-bayaaN meN bh`ee Th`eek haiN. maiN chaaroN asha'ar meN kuch`
tarmeem tajweez kar rahaa hooN. aap un par Ghaur keejiYe aur ph`ir fikr
kar ke asha'ar behtar karne kee koshish keejiYe. yehee is silsileh kaa
maqSad bh`ee hai.
-----------------------------------
yahaaN har kisii ko khushii kii talab hai
khushii hai bhalaa kyaa kisii ne na jaanaa
she'r apne mat^lab meN Saaf hai aur bayaan meN :sapaaT: doosre miSre'
meN UVR SaaHeb kee tajveez ke mut^aabiq :bh`alaa: ko :magar: se badal
deejiYe. pehle miSre' ko ziyaadah pur-acar aur zordaar banaane ke liYe
aap is meN :har kisee: kee jagah :jise dekh`iYe: yaa aisaa hee koyee
aur fiqrah laane kee koshish kareN to achh`aa ho gaa.
------------------------------------
Garaz hii Garaz aaj duniyaa meiN kyuN hai
ye kaisaa jahaaN hai ye kaisaa zamaanaa
aap ne she'r meN :duniyaa, jahaan, zamaanah: sab hee ista'maal kiYe
haiN aur yeh sab kam-o-besh ham-ma'nee alfaaz^ haiN! :yeh kaisaa: kee
takraar achh`ee hai lekiN is se ziyaadah mu,accar fiqrah agar lag jaaYe
to kyaa harj hai? :jidh`ar dekh`iYe GharaZ^ kaa daur-daurah hai. yeh
kaisee a'jeeb zindagee hai aur yeh kaisaa a'jeeb zamaanah aa gayaa
hai!: kuch` is t^araH sochne meN harj naheeN hai.
--------------------------------
mohabbat, saKhaawat, musarrat, sadaaqat
inhii se banaa hai miraa aashiyaanaa
maiN chand alfaaz^ likh`taa hooN. shaayad unheN baaNdh`naa pasand
kareN: murawwat, sharaafat, ulfat, raafat: mazeed yeh keh chooN.k aap
ne doosre miSre' meN :aashiyaanah: likh`aa hai, is liYe agar aap kisee
t^araH :tinke: kaa lafz^ bh`ee baaNdh` sakeN to she'r kaheeN se kaheeN
poNhach saktaa hai. koshish kar dekh`iYe!
----------------------------------
mileeN kyaa nigaaheN miree un se "Taalib"
mizaaj ab hua KHud.ba.Khud shaairaana !
bohat Khoob! aap kaa taKhalluS dekh` kar yaad aayaa keh mere "maamooN"
(maternal uncle) Matloob Husain kaa bh`ee yehee taKhalluS th`aa! aap ke
she'r kaa pehlaa miSra' be-a'ib hai. doosre meN :ho gayaa/gayee
shaa,i'raanah: agar aa jaaYe to bohat zor paidaa ho saktaa hai. agar
:mizaaj: nah baNdh` sake to us ke ham-ma'nee alfaaz^ sochiYe. maiN
bataa dooN to saaraa mazaa hee kirkiraa ho jaaYe gaa! so yeh mashq aap
ko hee karnee hai!
aap kee aglee koshish kaa intiz^aar rahe gaa.
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Yogesh
Sarwar Sahib: aadaab,
ummiid hai aap ke mizaaj achchhe hai.n. ham to 'eedhar' ek lambii
taan lagaa kar so rahe the, 'uudhar' kaan lagaayaa to ALUP kii
Khaamoshiyo.n ne aisaa zabardast shor machaayaa keh ham aa.nkhe.n malte
huye fauran uTh kha.Re hue - sochaa ab apanii nii.nd to chalii hii
gayii hai, kyuu.n na ek aaadh she'r lagaa kar aap se kuchh islaah kii
baat ho jaye - to suniye, mere Khwaabo.n me.n insaan kii farishto.n
se bahs ho rahii thii, usii kaa tasavvur pesh karne kii koshish kar
rahaa huu.n :
agar chaahe insaa.n, bane vo farishtaa,
magar kaun jaane hai insaa.n banaanaa
ye to puraanaa she'r hai, ise Thiik karne ki koshis kii gayii hai:
agar tum samjhate mere dil ke naale
muhabbat ko merii bhii miltaa Thikaanaa
Regards,
Yogesh
Animesh Kumar
Best regards,
Animesh
PS: deadline is June 05 unless I am wrong.
Yogesh
Animesh Kumar wrote:
Animesh ji, there is no emailing in this series. Please post your
couplet right here, and it will be critiqued by Sarwar Sahib.
And let me welocme you to the series. Regards,
Yogesh
C.Naseem
please break this up in meteric elements i.e. 1-2
ye dastakoN pe dastak deti huii hawaayeN
darvaazaa baNd pa kar vaapas na laut jaayeN
also inform if this behr is same as the one in this quiz?
thanks
C.Naseem
Yogesh
C.Naseem wrote:
Naseem ji, welcome to the series.
No, it is not.
Now let us see if we can establish why this couplet does not fit the
meter, and in the process address your request of breaking the
syllables into 1-2 format.
First it is important to understand what 1-2 stands for. When we assign
a value of 1 or 2 to a particular syllable, it may not be an absolute
value for that syllable, and may not hold up in differing situations.
This is the reason many like to refer to the syllables as S (short) and
L (long) syllables or 'saakin' and 'mutaharrik'- and even
that description may not suffice. That is the main reason that an
accomplished poet may only wish to talk in terms of 'arkaan' -
which is always valid.
But, for a beginner, it can all be quite daunting. Therefore, I think
that 1-2 system does serve a purpose - it provides a foothold in this
enormously complicated affair. So long as you understand that it does
not always hold up and should be regarded only as a prelude to
developing a better understanding of 'arkaan' usage, our ultimate
objective, the 1-2 system can be of help.
Before we deal with the couplet you quoted, a quick review of 1-2:
remember that in scanning the short vowels do not count, and each
consonant must be counted as 1. Let us take a simple word like
'merii'. It can be pronounced, and therefore counted, in several
different ways:
me + rii = 2 + 2
mi + rii = 1 + 2
me+ ri = 2 + 1
miri = 2 (1+1 two consonants each with a value of 1, and short vowels
do not count)
Let us take another word 'dastak', from the couplet you quote, it
can be scanned only one way: das + tak = 2 + 2 (each syllable contains
two consonants and therefore neither can ever be reduced to a value of
1 while standing independently)
Watch what happens when the word changes its form and becomes:
'dastako.n'
dastako.n = das + ta + ko.n = 2+1+1 (with 2, 1, 1 consonants in the
syllables)
Let us take another word in the couplet - 'darvaazaa':
darvaazaa = dar + vaa + zaa = 2+2+2 , here 'dar' can never have a
value of 1 because it contains two consonants.
Since the meter for this exercise is 122-122-122-122 - you can readily
see that 'dar' which must always be 2 cannot comply. You probably
can also see the limitation of trying to assign values of 1 & 2 to the
whole couplet without first establishing the meter of the couplet.
While the individual words can be discussed, the overall couplet must
be viewed in totality in terms of its meter - otherwise errors can
easily occur because of the syllables that can be scanned in more than
one ways.
If something is not clear to you, please feel free to ask additional
questions, that is the purpose of this thread. I am not an expert in
meter, but will be happy to share whatever little knowledge I have.
Regards,
Yogesh
UVR
> C.Naseem wrote:
>
> Naseem ji, welcome to the series.
>
> > please break this up in meteric elements i.e. 1-2
> >
> > ye dastakoN pe dastak deti huii hawaayeN
> > darvaazaa baNd pa kar vaapas na laut jaayeN
> >
> > also inform if this behr is same as the one in this quiz?
>
> No, it is not.
>
> Now let us see if we can establish why this couplet does not fit the
> meter, and in the process address your request of breaking the
> syllables into 1-2 format.
>
Yogesh saahib,
Pardon my intrusion, but I do believe the original question
posed in the initial post has not been adequately answered.
For example, the supplied sh'er has not been broken up into
"metric elements, i.e., 1-2". Also, the syllabic analysis
of the words 'dastako.n' and 'darwaazaa' provided in your
response isn't quote the distribution used in the supplied
sh'er [for example, you write,
> dastako.n = das + ta + ko.n = 2+1+1 (with 2, 1, 1 consonants in the
> syllables)
>
> Let us take another word in the couplet - 'darvaazaa':
>
> darvaazaa = dar + vaa + zaa = 2+2+2
which may be correct in isolation, but aren't correct in
the context of this sh'er. But I guess you were trying to
nudge Naseem ji in the direction of the correct metric
analysis without providing it yourself]. The 1-2 split
of this sh'er is the following:
yeh das ta koN pe das tak --
2 2 1 2 1 2 2
de ti hu `ii ha waa yeN
2 2 1 2 1 2 2
dar waa za ban d paa kar --
2 2 1 2 1 2 2
waa pas na lau T jaa yeN
(i.e., dastakoN is 2-1-2 and darwaaza is 2-2-1), which
is the same as the behr of the famous Iqbal nazm:
'saare jahaaN se achchhaa, hindositaaN hamaaraa'
> [...] You probably
> can also see the limitation of trying to assign values of 1 & 2 to the
> whole couplet without first establishing the meter of the couplet.
I'm confused. Isn't the very aim of this 1-2 exercise to
determine the meter of the couplet? Conversely, if the
meter has already been determined (presumably by some other
metric analysis), what is the need to even go through this
1-2 stuff?
-UVR.
Yogesh
UVR wrote:
Thank you UVR Sb, for giving the 1-2 analysis of the couplet
> I'm confused. Isn't the very aim of this 1-2 exercise to
> determine the meter of the couplet? Conversely, if the
> meter has already been determined (presumably by some other
> metric analysis), what is the need to even go through this
> 1-2 stuff?
No, I look at it differently. I think trying to determine the meter of
a Ghazal from a single couplet is a risky business, at least for some
one like me. It is even more risky for me, if it is based solely on the
1-2 system - because of the limited expertise in determining the
syllabic variations that may be possible in the case of complicated
words - especially the words which contain 'ain', 'ha' etc..
An expert like you can probably decipher it in a jiffy by any method.
To me the primary value of 1-2 lies in developing an understanding as
to the different ways a word can be scanned so that a beginner can
employ these words in his own compositions in a similar manner with
greater certainty. This was the whole purpose in starting the other
thread, ' ek bahr me.n ....'
Regards,
Yogesh
Roshan Kamath
(I'm desperately trying to catch up with my ALUP
reading ... )
> miri = 2 (1+1 two consonants each with a value of 1, and short vowels
> do not count)
You know I'm not a fan of using the symbols '1' and '2'
:) ... and here is one of the reasons why. As is
written here, the 'miri', in isolation, should scan
only as '11' (and not as '2'). The use of the symbols
'1' or '2' to indicate vazn seems to unfortunately
suggest that two short syllables are 'mathematically'
identical to one long syllable. I don't hold this to be
true [1]. In other words, one cannot _add_ two '1' to
get a '2'. On the other hand, using 'S' and 'L' as the
atoms for urdU prosody eliminates this confusion
because there is no apriori assumption of any
relationship between the L and S. Other that this
little nitpick, using the L/S is no different from
using the 2/1 system.
> dastako.n = das + ta + ko.n = 2+1+1 (with 2, 1, 1 consonants in the
> syllables)
In isolation, "dastakO.n" scans as 212 (or LSL) because
the "tO.n" is a Long syllable by default ... although
in taqtii` (ie. depending on the metrical needs) it can
be made to scan as 211 (or LSS) by shortening the
"tO.n" syllable - but it may end up sounding somewhat
weird.
It is a pity that ITRANS-like conventions do not
distinguish between the short and long forms of various
vowels (o, e, ai, au). Otherwise, the syllable breakup
would be evident naturally in dastako.n
cheers,
rosh
--
[1] No doubt *some* urdU meters do allow a long
syllable to be replaced with two short syllables - but
only in *specific* places. The meter for AGJH[5] is
such an example. However, this in no way indicates a
generic relationship between the '1' and '2' atoms.
UVR
>
> It is a pity that ITRANS-like conventions do not
> distinguish between the short and long forms of various
> vowels (o, e, ai, au). Otherwise, the syllable breakup
> would be evident naturally in dastako.n
Why single out "ITRANS-like conventions" for this kind
of public whipping, when in actual fact even the 'original'
Urdu script does not possess this ability?
-UVR.
C.Naseem
two entries for this quiz:
1.. a serious effort but seems technically flawed:
ye lamhaa thaka sa khaRaa sochtaa hai
vaqta aa chala qaatiloN se bachanaa
2.. a lighter one seems technically OK :
palat kar na dekha miree jaan-e-jaanaa
yeqeeN tujh ko kaise lagaa hai nishaanaa?
shukriya
C.Naseem
Raz
===========================================
Yogesh SaaHeb: aadaab!
aap soch rahe hoN ge keh maiN kaheeN Ghaa,ib ho gayaa! aur maiN is
intiz^aar meN th`aa keh is laRee meN jaan ke kuch` aacaar naz^ar aaYeN
to HaaZ^ir hooN! hamaaree yeh koshish naakaam hee rahee. dostoN ne is
jaanib tavajjuh naheeN dee, laRee pehle hee din se raaste se bh`aTak
gayee aur ab itnee door chalee gayee hai keh waapasee kee ummeed kam
hee hai. ho saktaa hai keh koyee aur dost is kaam ko kar sake.
maiN aap kaa aur un dostoN kaa shukr-guZaar hooN jinhoN ne is laRee ko
zindah karne kee koshish kee. aur aap se ab ijaazat chaahataa hooN.
maiN madad ke liYe hameshah taiyyaar milooN gaa lekin is :series: ke
liYe ab aap kisee aur ko Dh`ooND leN to behtar ho gaa.
aap kaa puraanaa dost
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Roshan Kamath
Uh? My comment was in the context of the representation
that Yogesh Sb. uses - which is not exactly ITRANS, but
somewhat ITRANS-like. There was no attempt to
single-out either ITRANS or the devanagari/faarsi
scripts etc.. At this point in my life, I really really
really don't have the energy, or the enthu, to engage
in 'altercations' over trifle OT issues. If it has
offended you in some way, can we please just pretend I
never wrote all that ... ?
mercí,
rosh
UVR
No offence was taken, nor was any altercation intended.
I was simply pointing out that singling out any one
writing system for lacking 'phonetic'-ness is unfair.
What we should be doing is repeatedly emphasizing, at
every possible step, that the pronunciation of any word,
whether in ITRANS, Hindi, or Urdu, is likely to be
different from it appearance, _especially_ when used
in poetry.
-UVR.
C.Naseem
>
> yeh das ta koN pe das tak --
> 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> de ti hu `ii ha waa yeN
> 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> dar waa za ban d paa kar --
> 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> waa pas na lau T jaa yeN
have you noticed that this behr is palindromic?
I recall an old hindi classic from sixties which not only rhymes with
behr of this show but has same qaafiya too!
song, a duet, is from film 'Dil Hi To Hai' composed by Roshan
lubhaata hai tum ko ye mausam suhaana
khuli vaadiyoN meN akelii na jaanaa
lubhaataa hai mujh ko ye mausam suhaanaa
mai jaa oNgi tum mere peeche na aanaa
isn't this true?
aadaab arz hai
C.Naseem
C.Naseem
become unwieldy. I think unrelated discussion should have been avoided
in this thread. Strictly entries and their critical review would have
made it a lot more user friendly. There is always room for another
thread to discuss other issues.
Thanks
C.Naseem
C.Naseem
Yogesh
Sarwar Sahib: aadaab,
I truly admire your spirit to help others, and wish to extend you my
heartfelt thanks for your effort in this episode.
I agree with your assessment, and hereby declare the series withdrawn
for lack of interest.
This will not stop me from reviving AGJH [5}, at a future date, if
sufficient interest warrants it. And if concluded successfully, perhaps
even proceed with new future episodes.
In the meantime my thanks to all concerned.
mai.n taariikiyo.n se to Dartaa nahii.n huu.n,
magar Gam sazaa hai, ye shammaa bujhaanaa
[Yogesh Sethi]
Again, thanks for your help. Regards,
Yogesh
UVR
> >
> > yeh das ta koN pe das tak --
> > 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> > de ti hu `ii ha waa yeN
> > 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> > dar waa za ban d paa kar --
> > 2 2 1 2 1 2 2
> > waa pas na lau T jaa yeN
>
> have you noticed that this behr is palindromic?
Yes, as written above in 1's and 2's, it is. But it doesn't
have to be palindromic --
godi meN khelti haiN, iskee hazaaroN *nadiyaaN*
hindi haiN ham, watan hai hindositaaN hamaaraa
The last "2 2" of the first line becomes "1 1 2" here, putting
paid to the palindromicness.
> I recall an old hindi classic from sixties which not only rhymes with
> behr of this show but has same qaafiya too!
>
> song, a duet, is from film 'Dil Hi To Hai' composed by Roshan
>
> lubhaata hai tum ko ye mausam suhaana
> khuli vaadiyoN meN akelii na jaanaa
>
> lubhaataa hai mujh ko ye mausam suhaanaa
> mai jaa oNgi tum mere peeche na aanaa
>
>
> isn't this true?
Very true, though I believe the first line of the first couplet
goes: churaa le na tum ko yeh mausam suhaanaa
There's another film song which bears the same behr and qaafiya;
composed by Anil Biswas for the film 'Lajawab':
zamaane ka dastoor hai yeh puraanaa
miTaa kar banaanaa, banaa kar miTaanaa
-UVR.
Animesh K
Aren't these poems "zamaane kaa dastuur", "lubhaataa hai tumko", and
"yuuN hii dil ne chaahaa thaa ronaa rulaanaa" in {1 2 2} X 4 meter/beh'r?
If that is the case, then the beh'r of "ye dastakoN pe dastak" is
different. UVR, please confirm!
Best regards,
Animesh
PS: Read C~Naseem's query a bit carefully.
UVR
Animesh,
Yes, it's different. That has been confirmed earlier.
I *did* read the query carefully. I believe you may have
glossed over the operative phrase "behr *of this show*".
Regards,
-UVR.
Animesh K
>>
>>Aren't these poems "zamaane kaa dastuur", "lubhaataa hai tumko", and
>>"yuuN hii dil ne chaahaa thaa ronaa rulaanaa" in {1 2 2} X 4 meter/beh'r?
>>
>>If that is the case, then the beh'r of "ye dastakoN pe dastak" is
>>different. UVR, please confirm!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Animesh
>>
>>PS: Read C~Naseem's query a bit carefully.
>
>
> Animesh,
>
> Yes, it's different. That has been confirmed earlier.
>
> I *did* read the query carefully. I believe you may have
> glossed over the operative phrase "behr *of this show*".
>
> Regards,
> -UVR.
>
My bad. You are right! In fact you detected which part I missed to read
correctly.
Best
A
Raz
Zoya wrote:
> Raz wrote:
> > Yogesh SaaHeb: aadaab!
> >
> >
> > maiN aap kaa aur un dostoN kaa shukr-guZaar hooN jinhoN ne is laRee ko
> > zindah karne kee koshish kee. aur aap se ab ijaazat chaahataa hooN.
> > maiN madad ke liYe hameshah taiyyaar milooN gaa lekin is :series: ke
> > liYe ab aap kisee aur ko Dh`ooND leN to behtar ho gaa.
> >
> > aap kaa puraanaa dost
> >
> > Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
>
> arre arre Sarwar Sahib,
>
> aap to naaraaz ho gaye! Yogesh jii, aap fauran Sarwar Sahib se maazrat
> kiijiiye, aur unheiN manaa liijiiye.
>
> Sarwar Sahib, aap chaaheiN to hameiN RK Sahib kii tareh DaaNT sakte
> haiN, magar Chho.D kar mat jaaiiye, pleeeeease! ab aap Naseem Sahib ke
> ashaar par kuChh kahiye, jo unhoN_ne kal hi submit kiye haiN. aur abhii
> to Aminesh jii bhii aane waale haiN, aap ko abhii ruKhsatii kii ijaazat
> bilkul nahiiN hai!!
>
> aur chaliye, ab aap voh ghazal bhii post kar diijiiye jis kaa vaadaa
> hua tha!
>
> aap kii puraanii dost,
>
> _______________Zoya
=====================================
Zoya SaaHebah: aadaab!
yahaaN Khafagee kee koyee baat naheeN hai. aap dekheN to ma'loom ho
jaaYe gaa keh yeh laRee aur maqaaSid ke liYe :pre-empt: kar lee gayee
hai. meraa kuch` kehnaa bekaar hai. ab is kaam ko kisee aur kee hee
Z^aroorat hai. waise ma'loom hotaa hai keh ab is kaam kee hamaare
dostoN ko Z^aroorat hai hee naheeN!
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Zoya
> =====================================
> Zoya SaaHebah: aadaab!
>
> yahaaN Khafagee kee koyee baat naheeN hai. aap dekheN to ma'loom ho
> jaaYe gaa keh yeh laRee aur maqaaSid ke liYe :pre-empt: kar lee gayee
> hai. meraa kuch` kehnaa bekaar hai. ab is kaam ko kisee aur kee hee
> Z^aroorat hai. waise ma'loom hotaa hai keh ab is kaam kee hamaare
> dostoN ko Z^aroorat hai hee naheeN!
>
> Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"
Sarwar Sahib,
aadaab!
I do see your point of view and respect your decision to withdraw from
the series, anyway Yogesh Sahib himself has decided to put it on hold,
so what else can I say in this matter!
chaliye, ab aap voh ghazal suna hii diijiiye jis kaa vaadaa thaa,
Regards,
_______________Zoya
Yogesh
We all feel disappointed at the untimely hiatus created in this series,
but I also feel somewhat perturbed by your choice of words in
describing it. No one "pre-empted" this thread. One post was taken out
only after your own assessment that the lack of interest did not merit
your further participation, and consequently prolonging the thread
seemed pointless
Your comment, "waise ma'loom hotaa hai keh ab is kaam kee hamaare
dostoN ko Z^aroorat hai hee naheeN!" troubles me the most. What is the
basis for such a comment. Of course, we need you - I cannot run this
thread by myself, and no one else had, or has volunteered. I would very
much like to see this thread concluded, preferably under your
stewardship, but did not consider it proper to try to pressure you on
that. If there is any thinking on your part that we can still proceed
with this thread, please say so, and I would be very glad to remove the
hold on the thread and extend it for whatever period you might think is
right. To remove any doubts about my intention, I formally ask you to
reconsider.
I am an admirer of your dedication to help others, and value your
participation at ALUP, whether it is in this thread or any of the
others. So, please do not think even for a moment that your withdrawal
from this episode is any thing but a loss from my point of view.
Also, you have not been participating in other threads. I asked you
some questions on your "Ghazal: be-t^aur, be-HuZ^oor rahooN, be-nishaaN
rahooN!", and still awaiting your response.
You can also help us by providing some examples for the thread: "har
bahr meN hazaaroN GhazaleN [01]".
Whether you decide to reinstate your participation in this thread or
not, is your choice. But please continue actively with posting your
Ghazals , and participation in other threads. Thank you.
Kind regards,
Yogesh
aphas...@gmail.com
saahibaan-e-ilm,
ye silsila phir shuru hua to mera khayaal tha ke ham jaise nau aamoz
iss se bohot kuch seekh sakein ge lekin meri bad qismati ke jab mujhe
yahaan kuch likhne ke liye muyassar hua to ye silsila multawi kiya jaa
chuka hai - iss ke baawajood bhi apni tooti phooti kaawish yahaan pesh
karte hue meri aap se istedaa hai ke ye silsila tark naheen karein. ham
log ke jo alup ke khaamosh qaarieen hain, aap sab aalim faazil afraad
ki tehreeron se bohot kuch seekhte hain. meri guzaarish hai ke aap apne
faisle par nazar-e-saani kar lein - nihaayat nawaazish ho gi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
iss lari ke liye meri pehli tooti phooti kaawish pesh-e-khidmat hai
tumhaari mohabbat, hamaari wafaaein
ye aadhi haqeeqat, woh poora fasaana
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
baaqi ye kehne ki bhi koshish ki
tumhein yaad hain guzre jaaRe ki shaamein?
madham baarishon ka madhur gungunaana?
(Q)
bahaaron mein woh laala.zaaron ka manzar?
shagufta shagufta, mehikta,suhaana?
hai aane ka wa'ada magar jaanta hoon
nibhaane mein ho ga bahaana banaana
sabab marg-e-ummeed ka poochte ho?
kabhi taiz aandhi mein shamma' jalaana!
ghamon ke zamaane guzarte naheen hain
guzarta hai pal mein khushi ka zamaana
baqaaye rafaaqat bhi kis ka hunar hai?
kabhi tu ne socha ya samjha ya jaana?
ye jurm-e-mohabbat bhi hai dar haqeeqat
nazar ki kisi sehw ka shaakhsaana
aap sab ki tanqeed aur islaah ka intezaar rahe ga.
shukriya.
Amit Malhotra
pahli baat to maiN aap logoN se maazrat chaahouNga k maiN is laRi ke
liye koi sh'er pesh nahiiN kar paayaa. Koshish to kee thii likhne ki,
magar mazaameen bas "saamne" ke hi nikle zehan se, to isliye maiN ne
sh'er nahiiN likha. abhi abhi kisii un-signed janaab
(aphasic...@gmail.com) ka bhi kalaam aayaa hai to iska matlab logoN ko
interest to zaroor hai.
Mere khayaal se itni behtareen series ko haath se jaane nahiiN dena
chaahiye. Yogesh sahib, mera suggestion hai k aap ek nayaa thread
banaayeiN jismeiN is laRii kii pahli post aur sab ke contributions post
kar dijiye.. jin par modifications ho chuki haiN aur final versions
post ho chuke haiN, unheiN Sarwar sahib ignore kar sakte haiN, jin par
nahiiN, un par vo comments kar sakte haiN (this is obviously if Sarwar
sahib agrees).
In addition, there must be a rule that prohibits people from posting
NEW couplets every time the judge comments on their submissions. You
send in one or two couplet and after they have been commented upon by
the episode's judge, those couplets MUST be worked on so that they can
be improved, no new submissions should be made to replace the original
couplet, otherwise the whole exercise is futile.
Finally, those who haven't contributed but did used to contribute to
the series in the past should also try and contribute to it :) (this
obviously includes me) I think it's a worth while exercise for
everybody to learn not how to say something technically correct, but
also poetically correct (which is the main reason why the Judge
sahib/sahiba of the series exists, to point people into saying
something properly).
Just my two cents with hopes that this series can be revived for
another month and perhaps I can also submit a couple of ash'aar in the
series. Besides, there is still Animesh who hasn't submitted his
ash'aar and then UVR sahib (if he wishes to do so) can write one or two
couplets for the benefit of everybody else and the series in question
:)
It goes without saying, but all efforts must be made to not corrupt the
agjh threads, i mean, they should be limited to submissions --->
comments by Judge ---> corrected submissions. Any other discussions
that may arise during the series should obviously be taken out of the
thread.
Regards
Amit Malhotra
Animesh Kumar
I am quite confused now, or perhaps I was confused before. Is it true
that we have to submit ash'aar or sher as we make it? I.e. serially in
the order we make it.
By a deadline of June 05, I thought that we have to finish something by
June 05 and submit it then. That is why I was absent from this post.
Best regards,
Animesh
Amit Malhotra
Animesh Kumar wrote:
> I am quite confused now, or perhaps I was confused before. Is it true
> that we have to submit ash'aar or sher as we make it? I.e. serially in
> the order we make it.
>
> By a deadline of June 05, I thought that we have to finish something by
> June 05 and submit it then. That is why I was absent from this post.
>
> Best regards,
> Animesh
Well, actually, you are supposed to submit one (or two) sh'er in the
given zameen and submit them (no serial submission or anything of the
sort). You get the judges comment on the ash'aar and then you try to
act upon those comments to improve the submitted ash'aar and when Judge
sahib feels that ash'aar have reached a good level and now can be
included in the final ghazal, you are done.
Deadline, if i'm not mistake, was June 07. But due to the lack of
participation and the diversion of this thread in other topics, the
interest was lost and it was put on Hold by the conductor of the thread
(Yogesh Sahib). You obviously have till the deadline to write something
and submit it.
So if Sarwar sahib agrees, and the thread is revived, you will get the
chance to submit something :)
Hope I answered all your queries
Amit Malhotra
Animesh Kumar
(Itrans)
sabhii ko salaam aur namaskaar. mujhe tho.Daa kautuuhal :curiosity: huaa
ke AGJH me apanii koshish jamaa karuu.N. pahale kabhi-kabhaar sher yaa
Gazal yaa nazm likhane ki koshish kii hai aur ko_ii Khaas kaamayaabii
haasil nahii.n hai. isaliye mere likhe hu_e misre ha.Nsane ke kaam bhii
aa sakate hai.n. aisii haalat me mai.n aap se maafii maa.Ngataa huu.N.
chu.Nki is :series: kaa maqasad sher likhanaa siikhanaa hai, isaliye
mujh jaise naye logo.n ke liye ye jagah achchhii hai. yahii sochakar
mai.nne kuchh sher maahir_shaayar Meer kii Gazal kii tarz par banaaye
hai.n. yahii is :series: kaa niyam bhii thaa.
mai.nne kuchh 6-7 ashaar banaaye hai.n, lekin abhii sirf tiin (3) hii
rakh rahaa huu.N. matale me.n mai.ne kisii husn_parii ke liye
:exclamations: likhe hai.n. mujhe Thiik-Thiik nahii.n maaluum ke aise
:constructs: urdu me banaanaa waajib hai ke nahii.n. lekin Raj Kumar
Sahab ki ek Gazal "sharaab aa.Nkhe.n! Gulaab aa.Nkhe.n!" dekhakar lagaa
ke aise :constructs: sahii hai.n. matale ke baad ke sher shaayad Thiik
lage.n.
mai.nne kabhii taKhallus bhii nahii.n rakhaa thaa. is dafe rakhanaa
pa.Daa aur mai.nne apanaa taKhallus "Kha.njar" rakhaa hai. Kha.njar ke
tej dhaar :sharpness: kaa Khayaal rakh ye taKhallus banaayaa gayaa hai.
mai.n apanii koshish aap logo.n ke nazar kar rahaa huu.N. ummiid hai
aapako jyada ranjish nahii.n hogii:
adaa Khuubasuurat! khushii kaa Khazaanaa!
dilo.n kaa aman-chain! qaatil puraanaa! (1)
qazaa sii nigaaho.n se mujhako nihaaro
na baKhsho! na chhoRo! banaao nishaanaa (2)
alt^: qayaamat nigaaho.n se mujhako nihaaro (2 a)
ye ma.nzar ai 'Kha.njar' wo aaye nahii.n ke
achaanak huaa jaa rahaa hai suhaanaa (3)
jawaab ke intezaar me.n
Animesh
^ alt(ernate): ye misraa duusare sher ke pahale misre me.n istemaal kar
sakate hai.n. mujhe dono.n hii Thiik lagate hai.n. aapakii raay sunakar
achchhaa lagegaa.
Amit Malhotra
In view of Animesh's submission, Sarwar sahib, let's get this hold off
the thread and extend the deadline by a bit and finalize a fifth ghazal
for the aGjh series :)
Regards,
Amit Malhotra