sahiih versus sahii
Raj Kumar
maiN to samjha tha k yeh saaniha aap ki jaanib se aek laGhzish ke
mutraadif tha magar ab pataa chalaa k yeh ist'emaal aap ka
deeda-daanista tha --- goya, aap ke zehn meiN, abhi bhi lafz sahiih
aur lafz sahii ka ibhaam baraabar jaari-o-saari hai!
maiN naheeN chaahata k yeh ibhaam aihd-e-mustaqbil meiN bhi chalta
rahe, is liye yeh 'post' tehreer kar rahaa hooN. aur maiN yeh bhi
naheeN chaahata k ham Khursheed Saahib ki dilkash Ghazal vaali laRii
ko mazeed guNjlak kareN, is liye maiN aek nayee laRii eejaad kar rahaa
hooN!
huzoor, ba-sad-ajz-o-inkesaar arz hai k lafz 'sahiih' Arabii ka hai
aur (umooman) ADJECTIVE hu'aa karta hai --- meaning durust, precise,
accurate, etc.
haaN, kabhi-kabhaar ise NOUN ke taur par bhi barta jaata hai ---
meaning, tasdeeq, authentication, etc.
bar-aks is ke, lafz 'sahii' Hindi ka hai aur umooman ba-taur ADVERB
barta jaata hai --- na k ba-taur ADJECTIVE, jaisa k aap ne samajh
rakkhaa tha!!!
yeh lafz muqaabiltan ziyaada vasee' hai aur kayee muKhtalif aNdaaz
meiN kaam aata hai. maslan,
1. raNjish hi sahii, dil hi dukhaane ke liye aa!
goya, sahii = Yeah, O.K., maan liyaa k aisa hi hai, --- .
2. tuu jo aisaa hai to apne bhi yahi taur sahii
tuu naheeN, aur sahii, aur naheeN, aur sahii!
goya, yooN hi sahii, Theek hai, jo bhi hoga usi se nibaah kar leN ge!
3. ham koi tark-e-vafaa karte haiN?
na sahii ishq, museebat hi sahii!
goya, agar ishq museebat hi hai to yihi Ghaneemat hai aur is liye
hameN yihi manzoor hai.
is zimn meiN, aek aur she'r zehn meiN aata hai:
sehn-e-ka'ba na sahii, koo-e-sanam-Khaana sahii
Khaak uRaanii hai to phir koi bhi veeraana sahii!
vaise, jo deegar m'ani aap ne darj kiye haiN --- Khoob, bajaa, etc ---
voh to "chamcha-garoN" ki zabaan haiN ---
jaise koi netaa ji kaheN k "yooN naheeN hoga, yooN hoga" aur un ke
chamche bol uTheN k "ji huzoor, jaise aap kehte haiN, vaise hi
sahii"!!!
4. ab aap zaraa muKhtalif aNdaaz ke m'ani dekhiye:
ham bhi maujood haiN is bazm, dekho to sahii!
goya, JUST see, JUST look around, --- .
bar-aks is ke,
bazm meiN aap ki jaanib koi dekhe to sahii!
meaning, I DARE anyone look at you! See the difference?
5. ab aap apni roz-marra ki satah se zaraa oopar uThiye aur yeh she'r
dekhiye:
mujh ko Khalvat meiN kayee baar gumaaN guzraa hai
mere parde meiN koi mere sivaa hai to sahii!
Here, hai to sahii = indeed, someone is there; true enough, someone is
there.
6. And, finally, a truly remarkable use of this word:
mere nazdeek to insaan ki m'eraaj hai yeh
aur agar aap kaheN ishq Khataa hai to sahii!
goya, sahii = Theek hai, fair enough, agar aap ka yihi Khayaal hai to
yihi durust hoga --- magar, pas-e-pusht is baat ke, aek chubhta hua
tanz hai k "haaN, agarche aap ka Khayaal yeh hai aur hameN qat'an
naheeN jachaa, phir bhi maan lete haiN k aap sahiih keh rahe haiN,
kiyooN-k hameN aap se ulajhne meiN koi bhalaa'ii nazar naheeN aatii"!
to, Vasmi Saahib, is ibhaam par yeh rahaa mera bayaan aur ab, agar
ijaazat ho to, Khudaa haafiz!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
P.S. haaN, yaad aaya k lafz 'sahii' verb 'sehnaa' ka 'past tense' bhi
hota hai --- go k 'feminine gender' meiN hai --- jaise,
"laakh sahiiN maiN ne pii ki battiyaaN, aek sahii na jaaye ---
Raamaa, aek sahii na jaaye ---
---
raat kaTe kis bairan ke ghar ---
---
DaaN, DaD DaaN, DaaN DaaN"!
R.K.
Vasmi Abidi
aadaab.
aap ne apne Khusoosi andaaz meN, jo jagmagaate huwe ashaar ke saath is
masle par raushni Daali hai, us se baat 'crystal clear' ho gayii!
yahi naheeN, aap ne hamaare 'newly-introduced friend' - yaani lafz
'guNjlak' - ka bhi Khoob iste'maal kar ke dikhlaa diya!
navaazish ka bahut shukriya.
Vasmi
Amit Malhotra
yuuN to aap ne ye post Vasmi sahib ke naam likhi, but I have to tell
you that I'm sure a lot of people have benefited from it. I for one,
sent your posts to a few of my friends who were also amazed to see the
difference between sahiih and sahii. Thank you so much for
enlightening us on this. As usual, There is so much to learn from
your posts, its amazing!!
Best Regards
Amit Malhotra
Ali Minai
ab bhi kyA "bazm-e nigArAN" ka vahI naqSHA hae?
Dear Raj Sahib, it is wonderful to see that the old neighborhood still
has the same "rangini" and some of the same "rangin-mizaj"
residents:-). Returning to ALUP after all these years, it was a joy to
read your exegesis on "sahii vs sahiih" --- much needed, in my
opinion. As usual, the beautiful ash'ar you quoted
made the article especially enjoyable. I envy your memory and your
ability to recall the most appropriate examples from it. There was a
time when I had pretentions of that, but "yAd thE aSH'Ar jitnE, sarf-e
tiflAN hO gayE":-).
However, just to show that I haven't entirely lost my curmudgeonly
ways, let me add a minor point to your article. In addition to the two
Hindi meanings of "sahI", there is also a Farsi meaning. Inerestingly,
"sahI" in Farsi means "straight" and, sometimes, "correct". Its
cognates are "rAst" and "mustaqIm". As far as I can recall, I have
only seen it used in reference to "sarv" (cypress) (as in "sarv-e
sahI" to describe the beloved's posture). It certainly is not widely
used, even in Farsi, and hardly in Urdu. Perhaps you can think of an
example. It would also be interesting to see whether the standard
Urdu/Hindi usage of "sahI" comes from a Sanskrit root or, in fact,
from the Farsi word. One can easily see how a word meaning "correct"
or "straight" could come to be used as "sahI' is in Urdu and Hindi. Or
the similarity may simply reflect the fact that Farsi and Hindi both
derive from the same root.
Ali Minai
Raj Kumar
> Respected Raj Kumar Sahib,
>
> yuuN to aap ne ye post Vasmi sahib ke naam likhi, but I have to tell
> you that I'm sure a lot of people have benefitted from it. I, for one,
> sent your post to a few of my friends who were also amazed to see the
> difference between sahiih and sahii. Thank you so much for
> enlightening us on this. As usual, There is so much to learn from
> your posts, its amazing!!
>
Amit Saahib:
Thanks for the re-assurance. It is sure good to know that a message
intended for one person actually reaches a lot farther! This, of
course, is expected when you say your say on a newsgroup such as ALUP;
still, it is good to receive the confirmation. Thanks!
albatta, is baar to aap ne mujhe maayoos kar diya k kisi nayee Ghazal
ki farmaa'ish naheeN ki. kyaa aap ka jii mere kalaam se IS QADAR bhar
gayaa hai? LOL
huzoor, maiN ne to abhi abhi aek nayee Ghazal kahi hai jis ki 'opening
line' hai:
"aaye ho to baiTho, na karo jaane ki baateN"!
kyaa aap is misre par girah lagaane ki himmat kareN ge? :-))
[Please note that 'girah lagaana' in this case amounts to creating a
second misra to complete the matla]!
vaastav meiN, yeh to faqat mazaaq ki baat thi, Amit Saahib. ba-Khudaa,
don't waste your holidays on this! :-))
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Raj Kumar
> ba'd muddat ke meN AyA huN kahO ham-nafasO
> ab bhi kyA "bazm-e nigArAN" ka vahI naqSHA hae?
>
mat poochh k kyaa haal tha meraa tire peechhe
tuu dekh k kyaa raNg hai teraa mire aage!!! :-))
janaab-e Minai Saahib:
bhai, aaj to, na jane, sooraj kidhar se nikla hai? huzoor, kahaaN rahe
itne roz? ba-har-haal, shukr hai k lauTe to! aur ab lauTe haiN to bas
idhar hi rahiye ga!
> --------- Returning to ALUP after all these years, it was a joy to
> read your exegesis on "sahii vs sahiih" --- much needed, in my
> opinion. As usual, the beautiful ash'ar you quoted
> made the article especially enjoyable.
Ali saahib, yaqeen jaaniye ga k maiN ne, apni yeh 'post' likhte vaqt,
kayee baar --- I mean, kayee baar --- aap ko yaad kiyaa tha; is liye
k, koi 3-4 baras pehle, ain isi baat par aap ne bhi qalam uThaaya tha!
hu'aa yeh tha k janaab-e Nagesh ne aek Ghazal ke chaNd ash'aar yahaaN
par 'post' kiye the aur hameN bataaya tha k is Ghazal ko kisi gavaiyye
ne qavvaali ke roop meiN gaaya hai. aur saath hi saath hameN yeh bhi
poochha tha k yeh Ghazal kis shaa'ir ki hai? us par, aap ne fauran
javaab diyaa k yeh Ghazal kisi "self-respecting poet" ki naheeN ho
sakti --- kayooN-k is Ghazal ke sabhi ash'aar Khaarij-az-baihr haiN!!!
voh Ghazal kuchh is tarah ki thi:
"kal raat tum kahaaN the, bataanaa sahii sahii"!
And what had struck you as so offensive was the usage of the word
'sahiih' as 'sahii', bar-vazn 'kabhii' --- which is patently wrong!
Right?
[I hope, Vasmi Saahib takes note of the fact that this precisely is
the kind of usage that I was warning him (and others) against!]
> I envy your memory and your
> ability to recall the most appropriate examples from it. There was a
> time when I had pretentions of that, but "yAd thE aSH'Ar jitnE, sarf-e
> tiflAN hO gayE":-).
Thanks for the kind words, Ali Saahib. albatta, aap ka yeh aaKhiri
jumla kaheeN ziyaada mo'tabar hota agar aap ne is meN 'sarf-e-tiflaaN'
ki bajaaye 'nazr-e-jaanaaN' kahaa hota to!!! :-))
are miyaaN, kayooN ham saada-lauhoN ko charaane ki koshish kar rahe
ho? LOL
>
> However, just to show that I haven't entirely lost my curmudgeonly
> ways, let me add a minor point to your article. In addition to the two
> Hindi meanings of "sahI", there is also a Farsi meaning. Inerestingly,
> "sahI" in Farsi means "straight" and, sometimes, "correct". Its
> cognates are "rAst" and "mustaqIm". As far as I can recall, I have
> only seen it used in reference to "sarv" (cypress) (as in "sarv-e
> sahI" to describe the beloved's posture). It certainly is not widely
> used, even in Farsi, and hardly in Urdu. Perhaps you can think of an
> example.
maiN is Faarsi lafz se ba-Khoobi vaaqif tha magar maiN ne ise apne
mazmoon meiN shareek naheeN kiyaa mabaada k baat mazeed pecheeda ho
jaaye. aur, chooN-k is lafz ka ist'emaal kam kam hi hota hai is liye,
ham yaqeen se keh sakte haiN k jo log 'sahii' kehte haiN un ki muraad
is lafz se naheeN hoti!
vaise, jahaaN tak is Faarsi lafz ki baat hai, ise 'sarv-e-sahii' hi ki
ri'aayat se, yooN bhi barta jaata hai --- k mehbooba ko 'sarv-qad' ki
bajaaye 'sahii-qad' bhi keh sakte haiN. aur, chooN-k is lafz ke ma'ani
'straight' ke saath saath 'erect' ke bhi haiN is liye, ilm-e-tibb
vaale ise 'uzv-e-sahii' ki tarkeeb meiN bhi ist'emaal karte haiN!
Clearly, I shouldn't dwell on this usage any further!
vaise, maiN ne is lafz ka ist'emaal Urdu shaa'iri meiN kaheeN naheeN
dekha. agar dekha hota to zaroor yaad rehta!
In any case, I was delighted to see your response to my simplistic
post and to read your comments on my feeble attempt. ab, jaate jaate,
aap ko aur aap ke sabhi azeez-o-aqaarib ko meri jaanib se nayaa saal
mubaarak ho!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Ali Minai
year wishes. A very happy 2003 to you and all other friends on ALUP!
> > I envy your memory and your
> > ability to recall the most appropriate examples from it. There was a
> > time when I had pretentions of that, but "yAd thE aSH'Ar jitnE, sarf-e
> > tiflAN hO gayE":-).
>
> Thanks for the kind words, Ali Saahib. albatta, aap ka yeh aaKhiri
> jumla kaheeN ziyaada mo'tabar hota agar aap ne is meN 'sarf-e-tiflaaN'
> ki bajaaye 'nazr-e-jaanaaN' kahaa hota to!!! :-))
> are miyaaN, kayooN ham saada-lauhoN ko charaane ki koshish kar rahe
> ho? LOL
I see that you have a much more romantic picture of my existence than
reality should allow. The "nazr-e jAnAN" stage is long gone, but the
"sarf-e tiflAN" epoch is very much here:
"maqAm-e 'ishq" se AsAN guzar gayA iqbAl
"ma-Al-e 'ishq" meN khOyA gayA ye farzAnA :-).
> maiN is Faarsi lafz se ba-Khoobi vaaqif tha magar maiN ne ise apne
> mazmoon meiN shareek naheeN kiyaa mabaada k baat mazeed pecheeda ho
> jaaye. aur, chooN-k is lafz ka ist'emaal kam kam hi hota hai is liye,
> ham yaqeen se keh sakte haiN k jo log 'sahii' kehte haiN un ki muraad
> is lafz se naheeN hoti!
Good point!
> vaise, jahaaN tak is Faarsi lafz ki baat hai, ise 'sarv-e-sahii' hi ki
> ri'aayat se, yooN bhi barta jaata hai --- k mehbooba ko 'sarv-qad' ki
> bajaaye 'sahii-qad' bhi keh sakte haiN. aur, chooN-k is lafz ke ma'ani
> 'straight' ke saath saath 'erect' ke bhi haiN is liye, ilm-e-tibb
> vaale ise 'uzv-e-sahii' ki tarkeeb meiN bhi ist'emaal karte haiN!
> Clearly, I shouldn't dwell on this usage any further!
>
> vaise, maiN ne is lafz ka ist'emaal Urdu shaa'iri meiN kaheeN naheeN
> dekha. agar dekha hota to zaroor yaad rehta!
You may be right. I cannot recall any Urdu she'r with this usage of
"sahI". However, my hunch is that such examples exists. I will be on
the lookout. Perhaps other learned ALUPers may know an instance.
Ali
paabagil
mujhe aap se baraah raast muKhaatib hone kaa sharf to kabhee haasil
naheeN ho sakaa lekin yahaaN aap kaa tazkira hotaa rehtaa hai is li'ye
aap se aik Ghaa'ibaana ta'aaruf haasil thaa. lekin vo kisee ne kyaa
Khoob kahaa hai k
shuneeda 'kab' bood deeda 'ke' maanid? :)
maiN ALUP meN tashreef-aavaree par aap ko bharpoor Khush-aamdeed
kehtaa hooN.
> > vaise, maiN ne is lafz ka ist'emaal Urdu shaa'iri meiN kaheeN naheeN
> > dekha. agar dekha hota to zaroor yaad rehta!
>
> You may be right. I cannot recall any Urdu she'r with this usage of
> "sahI". However, my hunch is that such examples exists. I will be on
> the lookout. Perhaps other learned ALUPers may know an instance.
mujhe to ye "thread" dekh kar thoRee see hairat huvee k is baat par
behs ho rahee hai k dar'asl "saHeeH" aur "sahee" muKhtalif alfaaz haiN
aur aik hee lafz naheeN haiN! lekin Khair, lohaa [tavvaa!] garm dekhte
huve sahee e Farsi ke chand ash'aar paish ki'ye detaa hooN:
1.
gayaa maiN bai-samar aazaad donoN 'aalam se
sahee kaa saayaa hai mere mazaar ke laa'iq
[yahaaN "sarv" hazf kar diyaa gayaa hai aur 'aam rivaaj ke bar'ask
lafz kaa manfee ist'emaal huvaa hai]
2.
ham bhee is vaaste baiThe haiN k ho rehtaa hai
tujh sahee-sarv ke saaya meN nihaal aik na aik
[Insha; "sarv e sahee" kee bajaa'e "sahee-sarv" baandhaa gayaa hai]
3.
aamad aamad hai magar mere sahee qaamat kee
baaGh meN har taraf istaada haiN jo shamshaad haiN sab
[Naseem Dehlvi]
4.
vo sahee-qad lab e saahil jo na ho garm e Khiraam
qaamat e sarv o Khum aab e ravaaN kuchh bhee naheeN
5.
too vo bahaar e baaGh e husn, jis par kare nisaar jaaN
laala-ruKhee, sahee-qadee, gulbadanee, saman-baree
6.
faqeer ik sahee qad kaa ham ko jo paayaa
huvaa sarv e aazaa chelaa hamaaraa
[Saba]
*******
ab aik maze kee baat suniye: puraane zamaane meN "saHeeH" ke aik hijje
"sahee" bhee the!!! agar yaqeen na aa'ye to apnee aakhoN se dekh
leejiye:
1.
ye kyaa naseeb k poochhe vo ham-nasheeN mujh ko
"sahee" to yooN hai k ye baat teN banaa'ee hai
[Qaa'im; teN = too]
2.
aage gumaashtoN ke khulee har taraf bihee
phir vo jo kuchh kareN to vuhee baat hai sahee
[bihee = khaataa]
3.
harf e Ghalat ko sun kar darpai na KhooN kaa ho jaa
jo kuchh kahaa hai maiN ne, pehle use sahee kar
[Mir]
du'aa-joo,
Zaf
Ali Minai
> maiN ALUP meN tashreef-aavaree par aap ko bharpoor Khush-aamdeed
> kehtaa hooN.
Thank you. It is nice to be back.
Thank you also for the several examples of "sahI" used in Urdu ash'ar.
I knew that someone on ALUP would come through on this.
> *******
>
> ab aik maze kee baat suniye: puraane zamaane meN "saHeeH" ke aik hijje
> "sahee" bhee the!!! agar yaqeen na aa'ye to apnee aakhoN se dekh
> leejiye:
>
> 1.
> ye kyaa naseeb k poochhe vo ham-nasheeN mujh ko
> "sahee" to yooN hai k ye baat teN banaa'ee hai
>
> [Qaa'im; teN = too]
>
> 2.
> aage gumaashtoN ke khulee har taraf bihee
> phir vo jo kuchh kareN to vuhee baat hai sahee
>
> [bihee = khaataa]
>
> 3.
> harf e Ghalat ko sun kar darpai na KhooN kaa ho jaa
> jo kuchh kahaa hai maiN ne, pehle use sahee kar
>
> [Mir]
>
Very interesting. It would appear that this usage became "matrUk" like
many other things. Also, though I agree with your idea that "sahI"
here is being used as an alternative spelling for "sahIh", I do wonder
if it is possible that this is a now abandoned idiomatic usage of the
Farsi "sahI" in the meaning of "rAst" = "sIdha" = correct = "sahIh".
Anyway, this is pure speculation, and probably idle.
Ali
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
salAmat rahE mEri bazm-E tasavvur
vo AyEN ge aor un ko zehmat na hO gI Mahir-ul Qadri
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yashowanto N. Ghosh
is laRee ke liye bahut bahut shukriyaa!---maiN Hindi :sahee: aur
Arabee :saHeeH: se to vaaqif thaa, lekin Farsee :sahee: mere liye
nayaa hai.
vaise Jamil saahab ke ek puraane Khat meiN maiN ne Josh Malihabadi
saahab kee nazm :jaNgal kee shehzaadee: paRhaa thaa, jis meiN yeh
misre' shaamil the---
kaafir_adaa shiguftaa_gul_pairahan saman_boo,
sarv-e-chaman sahee_qad raNgeeN jamaal Khush_roo
---ab pataa chalaa yeh doosre misre' meiN :sahee_qad: kis ma'ane
meiN kahaa gayaa hai.
ek baar phir shukriyaa!---With best regards,
Jasho.
ami...@msn.com (Ali Minai) wrote in message news:<ed8e7714.03010...@posting.google.com>...
Naseer
I hope that when you look at this thread, it brings back (good) old memories!
I am frankly quite surprised that Zafar SaaHib's post did not get any sort of response from you. What you have said about "sahii" and "saHiiH" is absolutely correct and people often do not distinguish between the two, especially those who are used to the Devanagri script. But there is more to this than this. I am resurrecting this thread to provide backing to Zafar SaaHib's comments. The gist of the argument is that "sahii" (as in "maiN Ghalat hii sahii") is the altered/transformed format of "saHiiH" (as in phir bhii aap kii baat saHiiH nahiiN hai). Here is a quote from LuGhaat-i-rozmarrah by Shamsur Rahman Faruqi.
""sahii" dar-asl "saHiiH" kii ek shakl hai aur pahle "saHiiH" ke ma3nii meN bolaa jaataa thaa. Mir ke diivaan-i-duvvom meN hai..
Harf-i-Ghalat ko sun kar dar-pai nah xuuN ke honaa
jo kuchh kiyaa hai maiN ne pahle use sahii kar
shuruu3 shuruu3 meN kalimah-i-taakiid ke taur par "nah saHiiH, to saHiiH, hii saHiiH" vaGhairah aur "nah sahii, to sahii, hii sahii" vaGhairah donoN raa'ij the. ya3nii jis taraH ham "suno to sahii, yih bhii nah sahii" vaGhairah kahte haiN usii taraH puraane log "suno to saHiiH, yih bhii nah saHiiH" vaGhairah likhte the. bolne meN ba-har Haal talaffuz ek hii thaa. diivaan-i-Yaqiin murattabah FarHat Fatima meN ek puurii Ghazal hai, matla3
dukh tuu detaa hai karuuN maiN tujh ko HairaaN to saHiiH
baaGh-baaN ab ke ujaaRe yuuN gulistaaN to saHiiH
zaahir hai kih yahaaN shaa3ir ne "to sahii" ke bajaa'e "to saHiiH" likhaa hai. daastaan-i-Amir Hamzah meN "to saHiiH" bajaa'e "to sahii" jagah jagah miltaa hai. ab "sahii" ba-ma3nii "saHiiH" raa'ij nahiiN aur "saHiiH" ba-ma3nii "sahii" bhii raa'ij nahiiN. lekin MaraaThii meN "dast-xat" ko "sahii" kahte haiN jo vahii hamaaraa "saHiiH/sahii" hai kyoNkih ko'ii kaaGhaz usii vaqt tasdiiq paataa hai (saHiiH maanaa jaataa hai) jab us par dast-xat hoN. Urdu ke rozmarrah meN "sahii" ab maHz kalimah-i-taakiid hai. "sahii/to sahii/nah sahii/hii sahii" vaGhairah sab durust haiN aur "saHiiH" ke asl ma3nii se in kaa ta3alluq maHz duur kaa hai."
Naseer
