besabab huwa Ghalib, dushman aasmaaN apna
Zafar
ham kahaaN ke daanaa the, kis hunar meN yaktaa the
besabab huwa Ghalib, dushman aasmaaN apna
Vijay sahib ne Raj Kumar sahib kee ghazal ke thread meN Ghalib ka ye
sher quote kiya hai aur is ke ma'aani ye likhe hain k Khudaa Ghalib
kee salaaheeyatoN se rashk khaa kar us kee muKhaalifat par kamar
bastah ho gayaa hai. mere Khayaal se ye ma'anee sahee naheeN balke
dar'asl Ghalib apnee haalaat kee sitam zareefee kaa ronaa ro rahe
haiN. agar aap chaaheN to ise "black humor" kaa naam de sakte haiN.
mere paas is sher kee aik Khoobsoorat English translation maujood hai
jis se mu'aamilaa saaf ho jaaye gaa:
It is said the stars cannot abide
the gifted ones, the great.
Since I am neither of the two,
why am I buffeted by fate?
(translator: TP Issar)
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Zafar
TP Issar kee
Vijay
"Zafar" <z_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f970256b.01110...@posting.google.com...
Zafar Sahib aadaab:
bohat shukriia yeh translation pesh karne kaa. lekin mere Khyaal meN yeh
sirf aik 'literal translation' hai. pehlii baat to yeh keh yahaaN pe
"aasmaan" ko "stars" likhaa gaya hai. is baat se to meN bohat had tak
muttafiq huuN. "stars" here is meant, in my opinion, to denote a higher
power, a supreme being that can bring about calamitous results for the
lesser mortals at will. One may not want to call this "Khuda" and call it
nature instead .I have no problem calling it iishwar or parmeshwar or
bhagwaan etc.
But more importantly, in the second part, what is significant is not what
ghalib directly states, but what he indirectly implies. His implication
infact is that he IS the gifted one, and the great, to borrow a couple of
adjectives from the English translation that you posted. This
tongue-in-cheek approach is totally becoming of ghalib and to me, this is
one of his endearing qualities. (similar approach is apparent in full
measure in his: "yeh misaaiil-e-tassavuf....." she'r). He clearly states
that "aasmaan meraa dushman hai, goya be-sabab, to maiN zaroor hii "daana"
aur "yakta" huuNgaa.
I post below the take by Haalii on this she'r:
aasmaan kii dushmani ke kyaa Khoob asbaab batae haiN- aur apnii danaaii aur
hunarmaNdii kis Khoobsooratii se saabit kii hai- log kehte haiN keh aasmaan
us shaKhs kaa dushman hotaa hai jo daanaa aur hunarmaNd ho- bas chuuNkeh
ghalib ne aasmaan ko apnaa dushman bataaya hai-is liie aik tariiqe se apne
aap ko dana aur hunarmaNd jataaia hai.
?QED :-)
Respectfully,
Vijay Kumar
abida123
yeh "?QED :-)" kis balaa ka naam hai :-??
Abida Sultana
Raj Kumar
> Vijay Kumar Ji,
>
> yeh "?QED :-)" kis balaa ka naam hai :-??
Abida ji, agarche aap ne yeh savaal Vijay Kumar Saahib se poochha hai,
kya harj hai agar is ka javaab maiN hi deta chalooN? I hope, none of
you will mind my intrusion! :-))
Q.E.D. is Latin (quod erat demonstrandum), meaning "what was to be
demonstrated or proved".
This symbol is commonly used in Mathematics --- at the end of the
proof of a theorem or some such exercise.
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
abida123
aap ki madad ka shukriya. Why should any one mind your intrusion. You are famous on
ALUP for your willingness to help :-)
Cheers!
Abida Sultana
Vijay Kumar
>
> yeh "?QED :-)" kis balaa ka naam hai :-??
>
> Abida Sultana
>
>
Abida Sahiba:
aadaab. aap neN shayad 'geometry' nahiiN paRhi, thiik? :-)
QED is abbreviation for the Latin 'Quod Erat Demostrandum', that means
'what was to be proven or demonstrated (has been proven).
Respectfully,
Vijay Kumar
abida123
Now how about the Urdu equivalnet of QED :-))
Raj Kumar Ji just might take the trophy on that one!! LOL!!
Cheers!
Abida Sultana
Raj Kumar
> >
> > ham kahaaN ke daanaa the, kis hunar meN yaktaa the
> > besabab huwa Ghalib, dushman aasmaaN apna
> >
> > Vijay sahib ne Raj Kumar sahib kee ghazal ke thread meN Ghalib ka ye
> > sher quote kiya hai aur is ke ma'aani ye likhe hain k Khudaa Ghalib
> > kee salaaheeyatoN se rashk khaa kar us kee muKhaalifat par kamar
> > bastah ho gayaa hai. mere Khayaal se ye ma'anee sahee naheeN balke
> > dar'asl Ghalib apnee haalaat kee sitam zareefee kaa ronaa ro rahe
> > haiN. agar aap chaaheN to ise "black humor" kaa naam de sakte haiN.
> >
> > mere paas is sher kee aik Khoobsoorat English translation maujood hai
> > jis se mu'aamilaa saaf ho jaaye gaa:
> >
> > It is said the stars cannot abide
> > the gifted ones, the great.
> > Since I am neither of the two,
> > why am I buffeted by fate?
> >
>
> Zafar Sahib aadaab:
>
> bohat shukriia yeh translation pesh karne kaa. lekin mere Khyaal meN yeh
> sirf aik 'literal translation' hai. pehlii baat to yeh keh yahaaN pe
> "aasmaan" ko "stars" likhaa gaya hai. is baat se to meN bohat had tak
> muttafiq huuN. "stars" here is meant, in my opinion, to denote a higher
> power, a supreme being that can bring about calamitous results for the
> lesser mortals at will. One may not want to call this "Khuda" and call it
> nature instead .I have no problem calling it iishwar or parmeshwar or
> bhagwaan etc.
Zafar Saahib aur Vijay Saahib:
sab se pehle to maiN Zafar Saahib ka shukriya adaa karna chaahata hooN
ke unhoN ne Ghaalib ke is she'r ke liye aek nayee laRi (= thread) ka
aaGhaaz kiya --- voh is liye ke meri Ghazal vaali laRi to ab is qadar
pecheeda ho gayee hai ke niri "shaitaan ki aaNt" lagne lagi hai.
:-))
aur aek baar phir Zafar Saahib ka shukriya ke unhoN ne is (haseen)
she'r ka aNgrezi tarjuma bhi baham pahuNchaaya hai, haalaaN-ke yeh
tarjuma faqat lafzi hi hai aur (Khudaa jhooT na bulvaaye) she'r ki
taih tak qat'an naheeN pahuNchta. phir bhi maqaam-e-shukr hai ke is
tarjume meiN 'aasmaan' ki bajaaye 'stars' to kahaa hai!
Now I come to the real topic in question and, for this, I humbly
solicit Vijay Saahib's attention in particular.
Vijay Saahib, here is a remarkable she'r I heard in 1958 at Jaalandhar
radio station. shaa'ir koi 'jai-puri' the, phir bhi she'r kamaal ka
tha. :-)) farmaate haiN ke
dekheN, ab "aasmaan" se aata hai kyaa javaab
kaaNpe to haiN "sitaare" hamaare savaal se!!!
goya, jab ham haath uThaa kar aasmaan ki taraf dekhte haiN aur tarah
tarah ki du'aayeN maaNgte haiN to hamaara markaz-e-iltejaa bhalaa kaun
hota hai? The sky? Our lucky stars? Or the ultimate authority that
showers all his blessings on us --- along with all the associated
afflictions. goya, yeh "aasmaan" faqat aek 'chhappar' hai jis meiN se
kabhi to booNda-baaNdi hoti hai aur kabhi bijli girti hai. meri raaye
meiN, yeh kaam "aasmaan" ke naheeN, kisi aur hi hasti ke haiN!
maana ke, Urdu shaa'iri meiN, hamaare sho'raa hazraat apne masaa'ib ke
liye "aasmaan" ko moorid-e-ilzaam Thaihraate aaye haiN magar savaal
yeh paida hota hai ke aisa kiyooN? aaKhir aasmaan to ham se koi 7-8
meel door aek satah hai jahaaN par neeli raushni Khusoosi taur se
bikharti hai. vahaaN par to koi baadal-bijli tak bhi naheeN hote ---
yaqeen jaaniye, yeh 'tamaashe' to ham se koi 2-4 meel oopar hote haioN
aur vaqt paRne par hamaare bahut nazdeek bhi aa jaate haiN aur hameN
apni jalva-gari se sukhi bhi karte haiN aur dukhi bhi. magar jab ham
"raihmat ki baarish" ya phir "balaaoN ke nuzool" ki baat karte haiN to
hamaari muraad "aasmaan" se naheeN hoti, "oopar vaale" se hoti hai!
is zimn meiN, ba-taur-e-sanad, aek mustanad shaa'ir ki aek taaza nazm
"marne ke ba'ad" meiN se aek muKhtasar sa iqtebaas pesh-e-Khidmat hai.
yahaaN par, hamaare mustanad shaa'ir, ba'ad-e-marg, "dharm-raaj" ji ki
kachaihri meiN ba-taur-e-mulzim khaRe haiN aur apne liye-diye par
kaf-e-afsos mal rahe haiN --- jab ke
itne meiN ik farishta ba-sad shaan-o-tamkanat
bolaa ke "ham se suniye is 'ahqar' ka maajaraa
Khaak-e-zameeN se is ko mohabbat to thi zaroor
par aasmaaN ke faiz ka ehsaas tak na tha", etc.
ab aap hi bataaiye ke yahaaN par "aasmaan" se kya muraad hai? javaaban
arz hai ke "ain vuhi jo ke Vijay Saahib ne apne aek Khat meiN kahi
hai".
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Sarwar Alam Raz
Mukarramee Qais saheb Tasleemaat
Ummeed hai ke aap baKhair hoNge.
Vijay saheb ne jo dilchasp silila-e-beHs :aasmaan: ke baare maiN
chalaaya thaa us per maiN ne bhee kuCh taHqeeq ke bad Khaama-farsaaee
kee hai. Aap se darKhwast hai ke aik nazar us per bhee daal laiN:
:shaahaaN che ajab gar be-nawaazand gadaa raa:
Khuloos Kaish
Sarwar Raz :Sarwar:
Zafar
meraa shukriya adaa karne ka behad shukria. maiN ne kuch "malfoozaat"
aasmaan waale qazeeye ke silsile meN Sarwar sahib kee laRee meN paish
kiye haiN, waqt mile to dekh lijiye gaa. yahaaN ye kehnaa maqsood hai
ke aap ne she'r e mazkoorah ke tarjume ke "lafzee" (Raj Kumar sahib)
aur "literary" (Vijay Sahib) hone kee "shikaayat" kee hai. is silsile
meN ye arz kartaa chaloon ke "Khudaa jhooT na bulwaaye" to tarjuma
hameshah lafzee hee hota hai (ya honaa chaaheeye), warnah wo tarjuma
naheeN rehtaa balke "tafseer" ban jaataa hai :)
mere Khayaal se Jinaab TP Isar Sahib daad ke mustahiq hain k unhoN ne
Ghalib ko is Khoobee se translate kya hai (warnah Ghalib to hameshah
se translators ke liye "nightmare" saabit hote rahe haiN).
Khair andesh,
Zafar
Zafar
kuchh din shehr se baahar rahaa jis kee wajah se jawaab meN taaKheer
ho gayee. taaham maiN aap se dast badastah ye iltimaas karna chaah
rahaa thaa ke Khudaa raa shaa'eree jaise "finest of the fine arts" meN
mathematics jaisee "driest of the dry sciences" kee istilaaHaat ke
istaimaal se guraiz keejeeye warnah kal kalaaN ko koi aap se kuch is
tarah ka sawaal bhee poochh saktaa hai:
da'waa bahut hai ilm e riyaazee meN aap ko
tool e shab e firaaq zaraa naap deejeeye!!!
Regards,
Zafar
Vijay
bohat Khoob Zafar sahib, bohat Khoob! LOL!!
A little off topic, here is a quote from, I think, ? Stephen Hawking:
If you want to know the mind of man; study religion: but if you want to know
the mind of God, study mathematics!:-)
Regards,
Vijay
Raj Kumar
achchha, to aap ko "tool-e-shab-e-firaaq" ki paimaa'ish darkaar hai!
bhai, Zafar Saahib, aap ke is savaal ka javaab to, sadiyoN pehle,
Hazrat-e-Ameer Khusrau de chuke haiN; farmaate haiN ke
"shabaan-e-hijraaN daraaz chooN zulf", roz-e-vaslat chooN umr kotaah
sakhi piyaa ko jo maiN na dekhooN to kaise kaaTooN aNdheri ratiyaaN!
ab, Khudaa raa, hameN us 'zulf' ki lambaaii mat poochhiye ga kiyooN-ke
voh to is qadar pur-pech-o-Kham hai ke use naapna niraa jaan jokhoN
ka kaam hai! LOL
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Zafar
aap kaa quote bahut pasand aayaa. isee sisile meN aik quote meree
taraf se bhee sunte jaayeeye:
"There is an astonishing imagination -- even in the science of
mathematics. We repeat: there was far more imagination in the head of
Archimedes than in that of Homer."
(Voltaire)
aap ne mathematics ke zareeye se "mind of God" paRhne kee baat kee
hai. arz ye hai -- Iqbal ke is qate kee raushinee meN -- k kon hai jo
mind of God paRhnaa chaahe gaa?
Khudaaee intizaam e Khushk o tar hai
Khudaawanda, Khudaaee dard e sar hai
magar ye bandagee, astaGhfirullah!
Khudaayaa, bandagee dard e jigar hai!!!
Moral: insaan agar apne aap ko hee jaan le to wo bhee kaafee hai! :)
wa maa al...arrrrrr....
Just wanted to say, have a nice day.
Zafar
PS. Raj Kumar Sahib: aadaab: aap ne tool e shab e firaaq naapne kee
kaushish to kee laikin afsos, ye kaushish kuchh ziadah "mathematical"
naheen saabit ho sakee kyon ke is meN aap ne jo "unit of length"
istaimaal kya hai wo bazaat e Khud -- jaisaa k aap ne bhee maanaa hai
-- baRaa "mashkook" hai.
Vijay
> Khudaaee intizaam e Khushk o tar hai
> Khudaawanda, Khudaaee dard e sar hai
> magar ye bandagee, astaGhfirullah!
> Khudaayaa, bandagee dard e jigar hai!!!
>
> Moral: insaan agar apne aap ko hee jaan le to wo bhee kaafee hai! :)
>
Zafar Sahib, bohat achaa she'r hai yeh!
Now another beautiful she'r by chakbast, although it appears dry as
science:-)
ziNdgi kya hai annasar kaa zahoor-e-tarteeb
maut kya hai, inhiiN ajzaaN kaa pareshaaN hone!
Regards,
Vijay
Sarwar Alam Raz
munshee brij naaraain chakbast lucknawi ke is behad KHoobsoorat shair
maiN aik tasHeeH kar leejiye. pehle misre maiN :kaa: ke bajaae :maiN:
paRhiye.
Sarwar
> Regards,
>
> Vijay
Vijay
"Sarwar Alam Raz" <sarw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:267193df.01111...@posting.google.com...
>
> >
> > ziNdgi kya hai annasar kaa zahoor-e-tarteeb
> > maut kya hai, inhiiN ajzaaN kaa pareshaaN hone!
> >
> Vijay saaheb namaste
>
> munshee brij naaraain chakbast lucknawi ke is behad KHoobsoorat shair
> maiN aik tasHeeH kar leejiye. pehle misre maiN :kaa: ke bajaae :maiN:
> paRhiye.
>
> Sarwar
Sarwar sahib: aadaab.
mere paas do kitaabeN haiN she'roN kii, jin meN se aik meN is lafz ko 'kaa'
likha hai aur aik meN 'meN'. 'meN' vaalii kitaab meN doosre misre meN
'inhiiN' ko 'unhiiN' darj hai. mujhe yeh she'r aap kii tashheeh ke saath
ziaadah pasaNd hai, is liie aage se ise 'aanaasur meN zahoor-e-tarteeb' hii
istemaal karuuNgaa.
shukriia,
Vijay