what do these words mean ?
Rahul Upadhyaya
> bahaar-e-hijraa bechaaraa dil hai
> sunaaii detii hai jisakii dha.Dakan
> tumhaaraa dil yA hamaaraa dil hai
za-haal = az haal = haal se
za-haal-e-maskeeN = (mujh) maskeen ke haal se, (mujh) ghareeb ke haal
se
makun-pe-ranjish = ghussa na kar/ naaraaz na ho
bahaar-e-hijraaN = the spring of separation ---
Rough translation: "don't get angry at my poor state; poor heart is
away from its love (separate/hijraa); the heartbeat that is being
heard could be of your heart or could be of my heart"
I patched together meaning of tough words from several posts in ALUP
(alt.language.urdu.poetry) where this and its related famous Khusrau
ghazal has been discussed often. Search on google on following
keywords:
"makun taGhaaful"
I am cross-posting it to ALUP so that Raj Kumar sahib or someone may
want to correct my translation.
Best regards
Rahul
"dreyz" <drey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<e57W8.270644$R61.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
> No replies....
> Have I asked a tough question ( I don't think so) or is no one interested :(
>
> The lyrics are by Gulzar. Can find them on any of Gulzar's lyric archives on
> the web. Throwing the gauntlet to the Gulzar fans out there. There must be a
> bunch out there.
>
> TIA.
>
> "dreyz" <drey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hz_V8.313425$6m5.2...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > Hi Folks,
> > What do the beginning words of that song in Ghulami mean ?
> > It goes like this 'ZiHale.... Sunaai deti hai jiski dhadkan'
> > TIA.
> >
> >
> >
Raj Kumar
> > ziihaal-e-maskiin makun-pe-ranjish,
> > bahaar-e-hijraa bechaaraa dil hai
> > sunaaii detii hai jisakii dha.Dakan
> > tumhaaraa dil yA hamaaraa dil hai
Rahul Saahib;
yaad-aavari ke liye shukriya.
huzoor, maiN to is "filmi gaane" par tabsira karne ka koi iraada
naheeN rakhta tha, magar jis Khuloos aur mohabbat se aap ne yaad
farmaaya hai us ka taqaaza to yihi hai k maiN kuchh na kuchh keh hi
dooN ---
even though this song is a dastardly affront to Khusrau and an uncanny
massacre of grammar ---
grammar, the way we have become accustomed to learn through the likes
of Paanini!
to, leejiye, saahib, yeh rahe mere ta'assuraat!
>
> za-haal = az haal = haal se
> za-haal-e-maskeeN = (mujh) maskeen ke haal se, (mujh) ghareeb ke haal
> se
> makun-pe-ranjish = ghussa na kar/ naaraaz na ho
First of all, one should realize that the construct "makun raNjish",
like "makun taGhaaful', DOES NOT need a conjunction! So, what is this
"pe" doing here?
Just a filler --- to keep the meter in place!
This unwarranted liberty is precisely what Paanini (and his ilk) would
be frowning at!
> bahaar-e-hijraaN = the spring of separation ---
>
> Rough translation: "don't get angry at my poor state".
AT my poor state? where is AT here?
The actual words, Rahul Saahib, are "mujh maskeen ke haal SE"! Now,
what does it mean to say --- mere haal SE Ghussa mat kar???
And the place where the conjunction "pe" is left to dangle has nothing
to do with "haal-e-maskeeN"! goya, is baNdish meiN, "mere haal PAR
Ghussa na kar" ka koi sathaan naheeN hai!
> poor heart is
> away from its love (separate/hijraaN);
The tarkeeb "bahaar-e-hijraaN" is, of course, tolerable --- just like
shab-e-Gham is!
So, "bahaar-e-hijraaN be-chaara dil hai" --- could be 'construed' to
mean: judaaii ke mausim meiN, aashiq ka dil be-basii ka shikaar ho kar
reh gayaa hai aur, is haalat meiN, us be-chaare ka dhaRakna bhi
mashkook hai!
[You see, Rahul ji, that for your sake --- and only for your sake! ---
I am giving all possible benefits to the composer of this geet,
regardless of the fact that the guy hardly deserves any such
benefits!]
> the heartbeat that is being
> heard could be of your heart or could be of my heart".
Now this part of the song is a little bit better. It says that ----
chooN-k mere dil ki aisi haalat naheeN k yeh be-chaara Theek DhaNg se
dhaRak bhi sake, is liye jo dhaRkan mujhe sunaaii de rahi ahi --- ho
na ho, voh tumhaare dil ki hai!
Not bad, to end with!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
UVR
are are Raj Kumar-ji,
itnaa Ghussa?! baap re baap! mujhe to lagtaa hai Rahul saahib
ko aap ke 'samakSh' aa kar yahii lafz gungunaane paReNge k
zehaal-e-miskiiN makun BA-ranjish ...
ji haaN! asl meiN yahii woh lafz haiN jo is filmii sh'er ke
shuroo' meiN aate haiN. mumkin hai aap ko yeh affront ab
utnii dastardly nahiiN lag rahii ho jitnaa k Rahul-ji ke
transcription se lagii thii. haaN, mujhe yeh to nahiiN
ma'aloom k asl sh'er meiN koii grammatical errors haiN, yaa
nahiiN, lekin poora sh'er kuchh yooN hai:
zihaal-e-miskiiN makun *ba*ranjish
*bahaal*-e-hijraa.N bechaaraa dil hai [v/s bahaar]
sunaa`ii detii hai jiskii dhaRkan,
tumhaaraa dil yaa hamaaraa dil hai?
ab aap se guzaarish hai k agar thoRaa waqt nikaal kar aap
mandarja-baalaa sh'er par tabsaraa kar dete to achchhaa
thaa.
niyaazmand,
UVR.
P.S. merii haqeer raaye meiN is filmii Ghazal ke baaqiya
ash'aar [bhii] kam-az-kam "ok, not bad" kii category meiN
aate haiN.
Rahul Upadhyaya
mujhe Raj Kumar Sahib ke Ghusse se bahut Dar lagataa hai. par is baar
ye Ghussa merii aur nahii.n hai. ye Gulzar kii taraf hai.
jaisaa kii maine likhaa thaa. maine sab kuuchh udhaar liyaa thaa
pichhalii "posts" se. khaas kar ke Raj Kumar Sahib kii 22 Feb 2000
waalii posts jo aap dekh sakate hai "makun taGhaaful" keywords search
kar ke.
us post me.n inhone "pe" par ye mudda uThaayaa thaa. to ye merii
transcription kii galatii nahii.n hai. maine to sirf "cut and paste"
kiyaa hai aur tho.Daa saa jo.D-to.D kar rough translation. aur isiliye
Raj Kumar Sahib se namra nivedan kiyaa thaa ke vo ise jaa.Nch le.
niiche waalii link par jo article hai usame ek Ravindra sahib bhii
hai. kyaa vo aap hii hai? vo 1998 thaa aur ye 2002 hai.
shukriyaa
Rahul
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35C899DD.5F10%40hotmail.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first words are from a verse by Omar Khayyam and, AFAIK, go thus:
zehAl-e-miskeeN makun ba_ranjish, bahAr-e-hijrAN be_chAra dil
hai
sunAi detI hai jis ki dhaD.kan, tumhArA dil yA hamAra dil hai
There is a collection of GHazals by Ghulam Ali where he sings a Ghazal
with similar words
zehAl-e-miskeeN makun taGHaful barAye nainA lagAye chhatiyAN
etc. I think that one is by Omar Khayyam, too.
Don't ask me the meanings of these words, I don't know them. I do
know
that they are the words, though :-))
Ravindra.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UVR <u...@usa.not> wrote in message news:<3D2AEBD4...@usa.not>...
UVR
> UVR-ji
>
> niiche waalii link par jo article hai usame ek Ravindra sahib bhii
> hai. kyaa vo aap hii hai? vo 1998 thaa aur ye 2002 hai.
lagtaa to yahii hai, Rahul saahib. Raam-Raam: kyaa aiND-baiND
likh rakhaa hai -- nahiiN? Khair, chaliye isii baat se tasallii
kiye letaa hooN k insaan to saaNs kii saaNs meN tabdiil ho jaataa
hai :-) phir yahaaN to chaar se ziyaadah SAAL guzar chuke haiN
[Thank GOD! ;-)]
> shukriyaa
> Rahul
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35C899DD.5F10%40hotmail.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
>
-UVR
Raj Kumar
> UVR-ji
>
> mujhe Raj Kumar Sahib ke Ghusse se bahut Dar lagataa hai. par is baar
> ye Ghussa merii aur nahii.n hai. ye Gulzar kii taraf hai.
You are absolutely right, Rahul Saahib. mera nishaana aap ki or naheeN
tha, geet-kaar ki or tha! aap ne to nihaayat Khuloos ke saath meri
raaye talab ki thi aur maiN ne jo samajh meiN aaya aap ko bataa diyaa!
>
> niiche waalii link par jo article hai usame ek Ravindra sahib bhii
> hai. kyaa vo aap hii hai? vo 1998 thaa aur ye 2002 hai.
>
aur yeh, jaate jaate, aap ne kyaa dhamaaka chooR diya k ham sab ko
Ravindra Saahib ki aek puraani --- magar nihaayat "lazeez" --- 'post'
se roo-shinaas karaa diya. Khudaa kare k voh Ravindra Saahib koi aur
hoN! LOL
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35C899DD.5F10%40hotmail.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The first words are from a verse by Omar Khayyam and, AFAIK, go thus:
> zehAl-e-miskeeN makun ba_ranjish, bahAr-e-hijrAN be_chAra dil
> hai
> sunAi detI hai jis ki dhaD.kan, tumhArA dil yA hamAra dil hai
>
> There is a collection of GHazals by Ghulam Ali where he sings a Ghazal
> with similar words
> zehAl-e-miskeeN makun taGHaful barAye nainA lagAye chhatiyAN
> etc. I think that one is by Omar Khayyam, too.
>
> Don't ask me the meanings of these words, I don't know them. I do
> know
> that they are the words, though :-))
>
> Ravindra.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravindra Saahib:
bhai, mazaa aa gayaa yeh 'post' paRh kar! kahaaN Amir Khusrau ka
Hindi-Faarsi imtezaaj --- aur voh bhi aek lambiiiiii baihr meiN ---
aur kahaaN maahir-e-rubaa'iiyaat-e-(shuddh)Faarsi Omar Khayyaam?
:-))
aur yeh kyaa k na to "varaaye nainaaN", as the right words are, aur na
hi "daraaye nainaaN", as many people tend to write, balke "baraaye
nainaaN"? :-))
aur yeh kyaa k "banaaye battiyaN", dekhte hi dekhte, "lagaaye
chhattiyaaN" ho gayaa? :-))
I can't believe, even in my wildest dreams, that this 'post'
originated with "the" Ravindra Saahib that we have come to know!
albatta, aek baat hai ------ yeh lafz "miskeeN" kuchh Ghammaazi kar
rahaa hai. voh yeh k, aksar-auqaat, log is lafz ko "maskeeN" likhte
haiN, jab-k is ka SAHEEH-UL-SAHEEH talaffuz "miskeeN" hi hai! ab jis
laRi meiN yeh 'post' chhapi thi vahaaN ke beshtar ashKhaas aise
"precise" talaffuz se vaaqif hone ke aihl nazar naheeN aate. us saari
fauj meiN, shaa'id aap hi aek aise sipaahi haiN jo k is tarah ki
baareeki ke mujrim qaraar paa sakte haiN. is liye, shak hota hai k yeh
'post' shaa'id aap hi ki thi --- magar phir bhi dil naheeN maanta!
Khair, chaliye, maiN ab aap ko aek dostaana mashvara deta hooN .....
voh yeh k agar yeh 'post' vaaqe'ii aap hi ki thi to bhi aap is se
"munkir" ho jaaiye aur, kam-az-kam, apni rahi-sahi tauqeer ko bachaa
leejiye! LOL
aur aisa karne ka "baa-izzat" tareeqa yeh hai k aap Rahul Saahib ko
(ya kisi ko bhi) koi safaa'ii-vafaa'ii mat deejiye. bas,
janaab-e-Rasaa Dehlavi ke aek maze-daar she'r ko, thoooooRa sa badal
kar, paRh deejiye. goya, maNch par khaRe ho kar aur apne daah_ne haath
ki do uNgaliyoN (tarjani aur maddhama) ko 'cross' kar ke, saaf saaf
kahiye k
"voh" koi naadaan paagal masKharaa thaa, maiN na thaa! already
LOLing
jis ne aisaa Khat likhaa thaa, "doosraa" thaa, maiN na thaa! now
ROTFLing
["doosraa" means "some other Ravindra"!]
> > zehaal-e-miskiiN makun BA-ranjish ...
> >
> > ji haaN! asl meiN yahii woh lafz haiN jo is filmii sh'er ke
> > shuroo' meiN aate haiN. mumkin hai aap ko yeh affront ab
> > utnii dastardly nahiiN lag rahii ho jitnaa k Rahul-ji ke
> > transcription se lagii thii. haaN, mujhe yeh to nahiiN
> > ma'aloom k asl sh'er meiN koii grammatical errors haiN, yaa
> > nahiiN, lekin poora sh'er kuchh yooN hai:
> >
> > zihaal-e-miskiiN makun *ba*ranjish
> > *bahaal*-e-hijraa.N bechaaraa dil hai [v/s bahaar]
> > sunaa`ii detii hai jiskii dhaRkan,
> > tumhaaraa dil yaa hamaaraa dil hai?
> >
Ravindra Saahib, jahaaN tak sarf-o-nahv ki baat hai, is misre ka haal
abhi bhi patla hi hai. aap yeh mat bhooliye k 'zahaal' stands for 'az
haal', meaning 'haal se' --- this is a very important point that you
have (inadvertently) missed in your latest post in the same thread on
that "other forum" --- where some people write 'jihaal' instead!
Now, keeping this in mind, please go back to the misra in question and
see how "az haal" can be reconciled with "ba-raNjish"? The way I see
it, any sensible paraphrase of this line cannot accommodate two
conjunctions --- 'az' and 'ba'!
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Rahul Upadhyaya
nigaaho.n se bachaane ke liye. aur aapane meraa nimantraN sweekaar
kiyaa - usake liye bhii. aapakii "surgical" nazar aur vo baariikii -
waah kyaa baat hai. isame baal kii khaal nikaalanewaalii boo kataii
nahii.n aatii hai. esaa lagataa hai ki jo aap kah rahe hai bilkuul
sahii kah rahe hai aur aap par bharosaa din par din ba.Dataa hii
jaataa hai.
UVR ji (urf Ravindra) - aapane chaar saal me.n bahut tarakkii kii hai.
aap is baat kii misaal hai kii ba.nde me agar lagan hai to koii bhii
kaam mushkiil nahii.n hai. mujhe jaatii taur par pataa hai ki aapane
in chaar saalo me.n bakaayadaa urdu zubaan kii taalim haasil kii hai.
kaii shaayaro.n ko pa.Dhaa hai. aapakii shiKshikaa (urdu me.n kyaa
kahe.nge?) Hamida (?) ne aapakii kaafii taarif kii thii ek shaam
Berkeley me.n
aapakaa
Rahul
UVR
>
> UVR ji (urf Ravindra) - aapane chaar saal me.n bahut tarakkii kii hai.
> aap is baat kii misaal hai kii ba.nde me agar lagan hai to koii bhii
> kaam mushkiil nahii.n hai. mujhe jaatii taur par pataa hai ki aapane
> in chaar saalo me.n bakaayadaa urdu zubaan kii taalim haasil kii hai.
> kaii shaayaro.n ko pa.Dhaa hai. aapakii shiKshikaa (urdu me.n kyaa
> kahe.nge?) Hamida (?) ne aapakii kaafii taarif kii thii ek shaam
> Berkeley me.n
Rahul-ji,
woh to Hamida aunty kaa Khuloos aur muhabbat hai, warnaa aap
bhii jaante haiN k maiN kab "ta'ariif" kaa haqdaar thaa?!
dar_asl mujhe kisii baat kaa afsos hai to isii baat kaa hai
k maiN ne pichhle paaNch saaloN meiN kuchh nahiiN seekhaa :((
[jii haaN, agar aap waapas jaa kar woh article paRheN, jo aap
ne quote kiyaa thaa, to ek jagah likhaa milegaa k yeh saarii
"KhuraafaateN" ***mid-May 1997*** (not 1998) kii likhii huii
haiN. yeh alag baat k, Khair, is se kaun saa farq paR gayaa?]
aap ko yeh Ghalatfahmii hai k maiN ne "baa_qaa`idah" Urdu kii
ta'aliim [shikShaa] haasil kii hai. mujhe yeh saubhaagya
kabhii praapt nahiiN huaa: Khud hii seekh rahaa hooN, aur isii
liye yeh haal hai. :(
rahii baat "taraqqii" kii, to haaN, maiN ne taraqqii kii hai,
aur taraqqii YEH kii hai k jahaaN mujhe un dinoN gumaan huaa
kartaa thaa (shaayad Ghuroor bhii) k "mujhe Urdu aatii hai",
waheeN aaj jaan gayaa hooN k "mujhe kuchh nahiiN aataa". I
guess that's something RK saahib would call a *quantum leap* :))
kyoN, professor saahib? ab to jaan gaye naa aap k maiN kyoN
Khud ko aksar "class 3 kaa student" kahtaa hooN?
-UVR.
P.S. 'shikShikaa' ke liye Faarsii kaa lafz *ustaanii* istemaal
kar leN. is kaa muzakkar [masculine/'pulling'] ustaad hai,
jis kaa "original form" *ustaaz* hai, aur "plural" asaatiza(h).
P.P.S. yeh to bataaiye, Rahul-ji, k agar Hindi meN masculine
ko "pulling" kahte haiN, to feminine ko "pushing" kyoN nahiiN
kahte? :))
Amit Malhotra
reading the whole month's threads, but for this one, I wonder if RK
sahib remembers, I described the whole situation behind this song once
and from there a great series of threads started, explaning each sh'er
of Hazrat Khusrau's memorable ghazal.. what a commentary he gave too!!
:)
Amit Malhotra
rajkum...@hotmail.com (Raj Kumar) wrote in message news:<c10928a.02070...@posting.google.com>...
Rahul Upadhyaya
> P.P.S. yeh to bataaiye, Rahul-ji, k agar Hindi meN masculine
> ko "pulling" kahte haiN, to feminine ko "pushing" kyoN nahiiN
> kahte? :))
khoob kahii aapane. ab ye bhii suniye k paapii kise kahate hai.n?
aasaan hai. naanaa kii patnii naanii. daadaa kii patnii daadii.
chaachaa kii patnii chaachii. to paapaa kii patni? paapii!!!
Regards
Rahul
pardesii hoo.n phir bhii desii bulaa rahe ho
esaa kyaa hai jise rah rah ke bhulaa rahe ho