A ghazal by Shoaib
yogesh...@my-deja.com
sta...@go.com wrote:
> Aap ki himmat afzai per meiN aap ka behad mashkoor hooN.
When I tried to post a reply under the old thread, I kept getting the
message 'thread malformed'. Deja gods are not pleased with ALUPers -
must be the liberties we have been taking :-)
But I was not about to give up. Hence started a continuation of the old
thread under a new heading! So let us go on with or without a happy Deja
:-)
> Yogesh Sahab aap ki yaad dasht ghazab ki lagti hai ...
> ...
> Shoaib
It is not difficult to remember some one like Shoaib:-)
hai.n aur bhi aluup ke aluuper bahut achchhe kahate hai.n ...... :-))
I like the poetry which not only stimulates the mind but also penetrates
the heart. It is an emotive preference and hard to explain. After Ghalib
and Faiz, for me, it is Sahir Ludhianvi. I see reflections of Sahir in
some of your poems. The other day I came across:
dil meiN kisi ki baat nashtar si ho chali hai - just beautiful!
Would you post the whole ghazal here?
Yogesh
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Shoaib Tanvir
>I like the poetry which not only stimulates the mind but also penetrates
>the heart. It is an emotive preference and hard to explain. After Ghalib
>and Faiz, for me, it is Sahir Ludhianvi. I see reflections of Sahir in
>some of your poems. The other day I came across:
>
>dil meiN kisi ki baat nashtar si ho chali hai - just beautiful!
>
>Would you post the whole ghazal here?
KahaaN Sahir jese baRe shaair aur kahaaN meri ghuTnoN ke bal chalti
hui ghazleiN :-) Aap ki zarra nawazi ki bhi kiya baat hai.
Aap ne tau mere dil ki baat keh di. Ghalib ke baad meri zaati rai meiN
Faiz Sahab sab se baRe shaair heiN. Mein tau unn ke kalaam per
jan-o-dil se fida hooN.
Aap ka hukm ser aankhoN per. Ghazal haazir hai.
kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai
ujRay hue shehar ka manzar si ho chali hai
ab tau shab-e-firaaq bhi phirti hai dar badar
yeh bhi meri tarah say be ghar si ho chali hai
ab chodhweeN ki raat meiN dukhta hai sab wajud
goya ke chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
kat kat ke beh rahaa hai aankhoN se yuN jigar
seenay meiN saans jesay khanjar si ho chali hai
meiN iss liye malool sa rehta hooN ab Shoaib
dil meiN kisi ki baat nashtar si ho chali hai
Sab ke comments ka intezaar rahe ga. Raj Kumar Sahab agar iss meiN
islaah de sakeiN tau meiN aap ka bohat mamnoon rahooN ga.
niazmand,
Shoaib
rajkp...@my-deja.com
sta...@go.com wrote:
> KahaaN Sahir jese baRe shaair aur kahaaN meri ghuTnoN ke bal chalti
> hui ghazleiN :-)
Sho'aib Saahib:
agarche aap ne yeh baat mazaaq meiN kahi hai magar hai durust :-))
khaas kar, is ghazal ke liye to bilkul hi durust hai! LOL
aap ki jis ghazal ko maiN ne chand roz qabl haath lagaaya tha voh, kam
az kam, apne do pairoN par to khaRi thi; yeh vaali to vaaq'ii 'ghuTnon
ke bal' chal rahi hai! ROTFL
On a serious note, I have to tell you that, out of a total of 10 misras
of this ghazal, 5 are out of meter --- including the one quoted by
Yogesh Saahib as a 'model'! For your guidance, I'll indicate this by
placing a 'y' against the ones that are in-meter and an 'n' against the
ones that are not.
> kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai y
> ujRay hue shehar ka manzar si ho chali hai y
>
> ab tau shab-e-firaaq bhi phirti hai dar badar n
> yeh bhi meri tarah say be ghar si ho chali hai y
>
> ab chodhweeN ki raat meiN dukhta hai sab wajud n
> goya ke chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai y
>
> kat kat ke beh rahaa hai aankhoN se yuN jigar n
> seenay meiN saans jesay khanjar si ho chali hai y
>
> meiN iss liye malool sa rehta hooN ab Shoaib n
> dil meiN kisi ki baat nashtar si ho chali hai n
ab meter durust karna to islaah ka juzv naheeN hai; yeh kaam to aap ko
khud karna hoga. albatta, aek misaal de deta hooN aap ki rah-numaai ke
liye.
Take misra # 3:
ab to shab-e-firaaq bhi phirti hai dar-ba-dar
yahaaN par, 'firaaq' ka 'q' bilkul khaamosh hai......the word sounds
simply 'firaa', so you'll have to do something about it.
aur misre ke end par aek syllable ki kami hai; you'll appreciate it very
well if you add 'si' at the end. This 'si' will match 'hai' of the
radeef in the next misra.
Most other defects of meter are similar in nature. Once all the misras
are in meter, I'll try to give you some 'islaah' on this ghazal. And,
believe me, it DOES need islaah!
For instance, even though the matla is correct meter-wise, this 'lahu ki
kheti' is screaming for islaah!
I hope I haven't spoilt the fun you were having after receiving those
highly generous compliments from Yogesh Saahib; I do agree that,
content-wise, your ghazal does deserve praise!
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Raj Kumar Pathria
Sho'aib Saahib:
aek nihaayat zaroori baat aap ko bataani hai!
maiN ne jab do-baarah aap ki ghazal ko dekha to aek aham baat note ki
--- voh yeh ke jin misroN ko maiN ne out-of-meter kahaa hai, voh matle'
ki baihr ke mutaabiq to vaaq'ii out-of-meter haiN, magar aek doosri
baihr meiN in-meter haiN!!!
goya, yeh kehna be-jaa naheeN hoga ke aap ki ghazal meiN do mukhtalif
baihroN ka iste'maal ho rahaa hai.
matle ki baihr voh hai jis meiN Iqbal ne kahaa tha
"saare jahaaN se achhchha HindostaaN hamaara",
magar kayee misroN meiN voh baihr chal rahi hai jis meiN Ghalib ne kahaa
tha
"hairaaN hooN dil ko ro'ooN ke peeTooN jigar ko maiN".
yeh baihreN aek doosre se mukhtalif haiN.
R.K.
yogesh...@my-deja.com
rajkp...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <jZk5Oaf2+pfIGudxhDAV7V9rIb=R...@4ax.com>,
> sta...@go.com wrote:
>
> content-wise, your ghazal does deserve praise!
Thank you, Raj Sahib, at least we agree on what I found to be the most
appealing aspect of the ghazal.
I also think that you may be right about the use of two different meters
in the ghazal.:( I did not have a chance to do a full fledged scan but
let us just take one couplet that attracted me to this ghazal in the
first place:
> > kat kat ke beh rahaa hai aankhoN se yuN jigar n
> > seenay meiN saans jesay khanjar si ho chali hai y
The dominant meter of the ghazal, as I see it, appears to be:
maFAilun maFAilun maFAilun faIL
Hence, the objection would be to the first word 'kaT' in the first line.
All we have to do is to read it some thing like 'vo kaT ke bah rahaa
hai...' . The expression remains intact and the metric lords would be
satisfied. But I must tell you that 'kaT kaT..' sounds so much more
delicious! Whatever happened to the poetic license? :-))
ab kyuu.n na daad deta, uruuz-e-ba asar kii
aa.nKho.n me.n jhilmilaa ke dil bar si ho chalii hai
Regards,
Yogesh Sethi
Shoaib Tanvir
<rpat...@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>Sho'aib Saahib:
>
>aek nihaayat zaroori baat aap ko bataani hai!
>
>maiN ne jab do-baarah aap ki ghazal ko dekha to aek aham baat note ki
>--- voh yeh ke jin misroN ko maiN ne out-of-meter kahaa hai, voh matle'
>ki baihr ke mutaabiq to vaaq'ii out-of-meter haiN, magar aek doosri
>baihr meiN in-meter haiN!!!
Raj Kumar Sahab,
Aap ki baRi inayat ke aap ne iss baat ki nishan dahi kardi. Lekin yeh
tau wazan se bahar hone se bhi ziyada kharaab baat hui ke do mukhtalif
baihroN meiN hai. Iss jehal ki kami ke liye kuch rehnumaii zaroor
famaiye please.
>goya, yeh kehna be-jaa naheeN hoga ke aap ki ghazal meiN do mukhtalif
>baihroN ka iste'maal ho rahaa hai.
>
>matle ki baihr voh hai jis meiN Iqbal ne kahaa tha
>"saare jahaaN se achhchha HindostaaN hamaara",
>magar kayee misroN meiN voh baihr chal rahi hai jis meiN Ghalib ne kahaa
>tha
>"hairaaN hooN dil ko ro'ooN ke peeTooN jigar ko maiN".
>yeh baihreN aek doosre se mukhtalif haiN.
Aap agar kuch meters ke baare meiN tafseel se keh deiN tau iss se mere
alaawaa aur logoN ko bhi yaqeenan faaedaa ho ga.
niazmand,
Shoaib
Shoaib Tanvir
>In article <jZk5Oaf2+pfIGudxhDAV7V9rIb=R...@4ax.com>,
> sta...@go.com wrote:
>agarche aap ne yeh baat mazaaq meiN kahi hai magar hai durust :-))
>khaas kar, is ghazal ke liye to bilkul hi durust hai! LOL
>aap ki jis ghazal ko maiN ne chand roz qabl haath lagaaya tha voh, kam
>az kam, apne do pairoN par to khaRi thi; yeh vaali to vaaq'ii 'ghuTnon
>ke bal' chal rahi hai! ROTFL
Raj Kumar Sahab,
Sab se pehli baat tau yeh hai ke meiN ne yeh baat mazaaq meiN nahiN
kahi thi. Mujhay waqaii ilm hai apni auqaat ka. Isi liye aap se islaah
ki darkhwast ki thi. Lekin dekhiye iss meiN eik khoobi zaroor hai woh
yeh ke iss ne aap ko khoob hansaayaa tau kisi kaam tau aa gai :-)
>On a serious note, I have to tell you that, out of a total of 10 misras
>of this ghazal, 5 are out of meter --- including the one quoted by
>Yogesh Saahib as a 'model'! For your guidance, I'll indicate this by
>placing a 'y' against the ones that are in-meter and an 'n' against the
>ones that are not.
I agree absolutely with your analysis. My problem is that I find short
meter easy to write in without any blatant violations of the rules.
The long meter is where I need education.
>ab meter durust karna to islaah ka juzv naheeN hai; yeh kaam to aap ko
>khud karna hoga. albatta, aek misaal de deta hooN aap ki rah-numaai ke
>liye.
Aap ki baat drust hai. Meter durust karna islaah ka juzv nahiN hai
lekin agar aap meter ke baare meiN kuch rehnumai kar deiN tau aap ka
ehsaan ho ga. How do I measure the meter? How do I scan a verse to see
if it fits with the meter of the whole ghazal? In the absence of any
training or knowledge in terms of meter, I rely on the ears but you
can see I suffer from ear infection.
>Most other defects of meter are similar in nature. Once all the misras
>are in meter, I'll try to give you some 'islaah' on this ghazal. And,
>believe me, it DOES need islaah!
>For instance, even though the matla is correct meter-wise, this 'lahu ki
>kheti' is screaming for islaah!
I do agree and hope you will be kind enough to help me grasp some
basic understanding of the issues of meter.
>I hope I haven't spoilt the fun you were having after receiving those
>highly generous compliments from Yogesh Saahib; I do agree that,
>content-wise, your ghazal does deserve praise!
Turst me Raj Kumar Sahab you haven't spoilt anything. Everyone likes
compliments and I am no exception. But I also know my limitations and
weaknesses. So I never let any praise intoxicate me :-) As for the
content, I am glad at least there is some salvage value in it.
niazmand,
Shoaib
Shoaib Tanvir
>The dominant meter of the ghazal, as I see it, appears to be:
>
>maFAilun maFAilun maFAilun faIL
>
Yogesh Sahab kuch meters ke baare meiN agar tafseel se likh deiN
yahaaN per tau aap ki baRi meharbani hogi.
>Hence, the objection would be to the first word 'kaT' in the first line.
>All we have to do is to read it some thing like 'vo kaT ke bah rahaa
>hai...' . The expression remains intact and the metric lords would be
>satisfied. But I must tell you that 'kaT kaT..' sounds so much more
>delicious! Whatever happened to the poetic license? :-))
Poetic license poets ke liye hota hai :-) Agar mujhay basic rules aur
meter ka ilm hi nahiN hai tau phir poets meiN shaamil hone ka na
maqool daa'waa kese kar sakta hooN?
Aur yeh baat kasr-e-nafsi se nahiN kahi thi bulkul sach hi kahi thi ke
mera maqsad kuch seekh lena hai. Aur phir talib ilmoN ko tau baRi
mehnat karna paRti hai tab kahiN jaa kar ilm haasil ho sakta hai. Bas
zaroorat iss baat ki hai ke koi ustaad nazr-e-karam far ma kar sikhane
per aamadaa ho jaaeiN.
niazmand,
Shoaib
Ajainder S. Shergill
Shoaib Tanvir wrote:
> >On a serious note, I have to tell you that, out of a total of 10 misras
> >of this ghazal, 5 are out of meter --- including the one quoted by
> >Yogesh Saahib as a 'model'! For your guidance, I'll indicate this by
> >placing a 'y' against the ones that are in-meter and an 'n' against the
> >ones that are not.
>
> I agree absolutely with your analysis. My problem is that I find short
> meter easy to write in without any blatant violations of the rules.
> The long meter is where I need education.
>
> >ab meter durust karna to islaah ka juzv naheeN hai; yeh kaam to aap ko
> >khud karna hoga. albatta, aek misaal de deta hooN aap ki rah-numaai ke
> >liye.
>
> Aap ki baat drust hai. Meter durust karna islaah ka juzv nahiN hai
> lekin agar aap meter ke baare meiN kuch rehnumai kar deiN tau aap ka
> ehsaan ho ga. How do I measure the meter? How do I scan a verse to see
> if it fits with the meter of the whole ghazal? In the absence of any
> training or knowledge in terms of meter, I rely on the ears but you
> can see I suffer from ear infection.
bhai, yeh "ear infection" to hum ko bhi baut zabar_dast hai. Tanvir saahib
ke saath maiN bhi yeh guzaarish kartaa hooN, Raj saahib aur Yogesh saahib se,
aur baaki sab se bhi, jo is baare meiN kuch reh_numaai kar sakte haiN, ki
agar meter ke baare meiN kuch post kar sakeN, to bahut meh'rbaani hogi.
shukriyaa,
with regards,
Ajainder S. Shergill
rajkp...@my-deja.com
yogesh...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8hdiil$44r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> rajkp...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <jZk5Oaf2+pfIGudxhDAV7V9rIb=R...@4ax.com>,
> > sta...@go.com wrote:
> > > kat kat ke beh rahaa hai aankhoN se yuN jigar n
> > > seenay meiN saans jesay khanjar si ho chali hai y
>
> The dominant meter of the ghazal, as I see it, appears to be:
>
> maFAilun maFAilun maFAilun faIL
>
> Hence, the objection would be to the first word 'kaT' in the first
> line.
> All we have to do is to read it some thing like 'vo kaT ke bah rahaa
> hai...' . The expression remains intact and the metric lords would be
> satisfied. But I must tell you that 'kaT kaT..' sounds so much more
> delicious! Whatever happened to the poetic license? :-))
Yogesh Saahib:
I do admire your desire to encourage Sho'aib Saahib in his
beautiful venture but, since he seems willing to do things right, why
not encourage him to do things right? I am afraid that your reference to
'poetic license' trivializes the whole issue, for "mixing two baihrs in
one ghazal" is hardly a provision under that license.
Let me narrate a case in point. Mirza Azeem Beg, who was a cotemporary
of Mirza Saudaa, committed a similar mistake in one of his ghazals that
he recited at a mushaa'ira. Mirza Saudaa couldn't take it and, right
away, called his attendant ba-naam 'ghuNcha' ---
"are o ghuNche, laana to mera qalam-daan; zaraa in ki khabar to looN".
fauran aek qata', mukhammis ki sinaf meiN, likh Daala aur, jab apna
kalaam sunaane ki baari aayee to, farmaaya
gar tu mushaa'ire meiN, sabaa!, aaj kal chale
kahiyo Azeem se ke zaraa voh sambhal chale
itna bhi had se apni na baahar nikal chale
paRhne ko shab jo yaar ghazal-dar-ghazal chale
baihr-e-rajaz meiN Daal ke baihr-e-ramal chale!
Do we want that to happen to Sho'aib Saahib?
doosri baat yeh ke jis she'r ka zikr aap ne oopar kiya hai aur farmaaya
hai ke 'kaT kaT' ko 'vo kaT' se badal diya jaaye to "metric lords would
be satisfied" is totally unfortunate. huzoor, the trouble is not at the
beginning of the misra; it is at the end of it! aap ne ghaaliban is
baihr ko saheeh taur se pehchaana hi naheeN.
aur jahaaN tak "metric lords" ki baat hai, nobody is obligated to oblige
them. In fact, why bother about meter at all? One may write whatever one
feels like writing and, go ahead, call it "poetry". There is no law
prohibiting that! But then don't blame someone quoting Munshi Tilok
Chand Mehroom, who said so aptly
jo jis ke jee meiN aaye, likhe aur chhaap de
kuchh farq she'r aur khuraafaat meiN naheeN!
In any case, my feeling is that Sho'aib Saahib does want to write his
stuff within the confines of the rules that Urdu poets are supposed to
follow --- and, if that is the case, he should be encouraged to follow
those rules, rather than skirt around them.
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
aye...@my-deja.com
of the first misra : the one in 'saare jahaan se achchha' or 'yeh na
thi hamaari qismat'.
of course expressions like raat–e -chodhweeN are not the most fluid but
may be some one can take it from here.
kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai
ujRay hue shehar ke manzar si ho chali hai
phirti hai dar badar ab shab bhi firaaq ki kyun
yeh bhi meri tarah kya be-ghar si ho chali hai?
dukhta hai sab wajud ab is raat–e -chodhweeN meiN
goya yeh chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
aankhoN se yuN jigar bhi kat kat ke beh rahaa hai
seenay meiN saans jaise khanjar si ho chali hai
rehte haiN is liye ham Shoaib ab malool se
dil meiN kisi ki baateN nashtar si ho chali hai
I hope this does not make Shoaib bhai angry with me... I hope once
again that I did not take much liberty with the original work.
regards
Ayesha.
Raj Kumar Pathria
>
> this is humble attepmt to re-arrange Shoib bhai's ghazal in the meter
> of the first misra : the one in 'saare jahaan se achchha' or 'yeh na
> thi hamaari qismat'.
>
> may be some one can take it from here.
azeeza Ayesha:
I am glad, and not at all surprised, that you caught it right! I
personally had neither time nor strength to re-write this ghazal and
bring all of it under a single baihr. You did very well to choose the
baihr of the matla and render the rest of the ghazal into it.
Still, I am sorry to say, both misras of the maqta are in trouble! :-(
aap ne khadsha zaahir kiya hai ke kaheeN Sho'aib Saahib aap ki is
kaavish par naaraaz na ho jaayeN. I can't imagine why he would; now at
least 80% of his ghazal is in-meter! unheN to aap ka aihsaanmand hona
chaahiye --- aur, haaN, agar voh naaraaz hote hi haiN to hone deejiye;
agli baar islaah lene kahaaN jaayeN ge? :-))
maiN itna zaroor kahooN ga ke agarche ab beshtar misre in-meter ho gaye
haiN, magar kayee maqaamaat par voh ravaani naheeN rahi jo pehle thi.
voh is liye ke un ke kuchh misre aek doosri baihr meiN in-meter the aur
ravaaN-davaaN the. aap ne achchha kiya jo un ko aek hi baihr meiN Dhaal
diya --- but at some price in 'flow'.
ab mujhe khadsha lagne lagaa hai ke hamaari azeeza kaheeN hameeN se
naaraaz na ho jaayeN! khair, hoti haiN to ho jaayeN; agli baar khud apni
ghazal par islaah lene kahaaN jaayeN gi!!! LOL
Now, a few specific comments:
> kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai
> ujRay hue shehar ke manzar si ho chali hai
In the second line, ke ---> ka; clearly, a typo.
matla buraa naheeN hai, magar yeh 'lahu ki kheti' baRi ghalat baat hai!
Do you see, why? I think I'll leave this as an assignment for you!
> phirti hai dar badar ab shab bhi firaaq ki kyun
> yeh bhi meri tarah kya be-ghar si ho chali hai?
agarche ab meter durust hai, magar yeh 'bhi' sticking between 'shab' and
'firaaq' bahut chubhta hai.
> dukhta hai sab wajud ab is raat–e -chodhweeN meiN
> goya yeh chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
raat-e-chaudhweeN is totally illegal! Hindi ke alfaaz ke darmiyaan
izaafat lagaana khilaaf-e-qaanoon hai! balke, agar aek lafz Hindi ka ho
aur aek Faarsi ka, to bhi yeh amal mamnoo' hai. izaafat ke liye, dono
alfaaz Faarsi ke hone chaahiyeN; please remember this for future as
well.
In fact, the puritans didn't allow an izaafat even between an Arabic
word and a Persian word. However, later writers in Urdu have not been
that strict about this.
One possible solution: change this to 'chaudhveen ki shab'. Personally,
I don't like this either, magar guzaare ke liye Theek hai.
> aankhoN se yuN jigar bhi kat kat ke beh rahaa hai
> seenay meiN saans jaise khanjar si ho chali hai
You did a truly good job here. This line was shorter by a syllable; your
introduction of 'bhi' did the trick. This way, we now have a desired
syllable at the end of the misra, where it was badly needed to match
with the 'hai' of the second line.
> rehte haiN is liye ham Shoaib ab malool se
> dil meiN kisi ki baateN nashtar si ho chali hai
I am sorry to say that the maqta is still in serious trouble.
The first misra is out-of meter, for it sounds like
rehte haiN is liye ham "show-aib" ab "maloo" se.
The second misra, in its original version, was sadly out of meter. You
put your finger right where the defect was, and corrected it by
replacing 'baat' by 'baateN'. But, but, but, ---- this introduces a new
problem.
You know 'baateN' is a plural noun; however, the verb here needs a
singular noun!
So the job isn't over yet.
> I hope this does not make Shoaib bhai angry with me... I hope once
> again that I did not take much liberty with the original work.
aap kuchh zaroorat se ziyaadah hi 'modest' haiN. mere khayaal meiN,
jahaaN tak Urdu shaa'iri ka ta'alluq hai, aap ki samajh-boojh beshtar
ALUPers se behtar hai. maiN itna zaroor kahooN ga ke aap ki vocabulary
vaaq'ii 'modest' hai, magar aap ka husn-e-tafakkur itna umdah hai ke aap
ne is 'khaami' ko 'khoobi' meiN badal rakhkha hai! Yes, I mean it.
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
P.S. maiN voh ghazal, jis ki farmaa'ish aap ne , Sho'aib Saahib ne aur
Ajainder Saahib ne ki thi, post karne ki soch hi rahaa tha ke is haaliya
ghazal ne haNgaama barpaa kar diya. ab yeh soch rahaa hooN ke zaraa yeh
haNgaama tham le to maiN aap sab ki farmaa'ish poori karooN ---
kiyooN-ke is vaqt to naqqar-khaane meiN bhalaa tooti ki aavaaz ko kaun
sune ga? :-))
R.K.
Shoaib Tanvir
>I do admire your desire to encourage Sho'aib Saahib in his
>beautiful venture but, since he seems willing to do things right, why
>not encourage him to do things right? I am afraid that your reference to
>'poetic license' trivializes the whole issue, for "mixing two baihrs in
>one ghazal" is hardly a provision under that license.
Raj Kumar Sahab aap ne durust kaha hai. Meri khwahish kuch seekhnay ki
hai aur mein uss ke liye mehnat ke liye bhi tayyar hooN. Aap jese
ahl-e-ilm hazraat ki rehnumaii ki zaroorat hai.
>Let me narrate a case in point. Mirza Azeem Beg, who was a cotemporary
>of Mirza Saudaa, committed a similar mistake in one of his ghazals that
>he recited at a mushaa'ira. Mirza Saudaa couldn't take it and, right
>away, called his attendant ba-naam 'ghuNcha' ---
>Do we want that to happen to Sho'aib Saahib?
Janab meri hesiat hi kiya hai? Shairi abhi aati kahaaN hai lekin
koshish zaroor karta hooN. Aap ustaadoN ki tawajju se shayad kuch
haasil ho jaye.
>In any case, my feeling is that Sho'aib Saahib does want to write his
>stuff within the confines of the rules that Urdu poets are supposed to
>follow --- and, if that is the case, he should be encouraged to follow
>those rules, rather than skirt around them.
You bet Raj Sahab. I want to learn the poetry and its rules and try my
best to write however insignificant stuff I am able to write. I hope I
have your guidance and support in this gigantic task.
niazmand,
Shoaib
Shoaib Tanvir
>this is humble attepmt to re-arrange Shoib bhai's ghazal in the meter
>of the first misra : the one in 'saare jahaan se achchha' or 'yeh na
>thi hamaari qismat'.
I do appreciate your correction very much. I know I can learn a lot
from you.
>kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai
>ujRay hue shehar ke manzar si ho chali hai
If I change this to:-
ab dil ki sarzameeN bhi banjar si ho chaloi hai
ujRay hue shehar ke manzar si ho chali hai
does it still fit the meter?
>phirti hai dar badar ab shab bhi firaaq ki kyun
would this work ?
ab tau shab-e-firaaq bhi phirti hai dar badar si
>yeh bhi meri tarah kya be-ghar si ho chali hai?
>
>dukhta hai sab wajud ab is raat–e -chodhweeN meiN
>goya yeh chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
I think either I have to discard this she'r or else come up with
something very different. I will put this off till I have a little
more knowledge of meters.
>
>aankhoN se yuN jigar bhi kat kat ke beh rahaa hai
>seenay meiN saans jaise khanjar si ho chali hai
Will this work ?
kat kat ke beh raha hai aankhoN se yuN jigar bhi
>
>rehte haiN is liye ham Shoaib ab malool se
>dil meiN kisi ki baateN nashtar si ho chali hai
I will try to work this out after I am a little less ignorant about
the meters.
>I hope this does not make Shoaib bhai angry with me... I hope once
>again that I did not take much liberty with the original work.
Angry? Are you kidding? I am so much obliged. And what original work?
It was like mumblings of an ignoramus which you have so artfully
turned into a ghazal. I really appreciate the gesture and the time you
spent correcting this thing. Thank you so very much.
niazmand,
Shoaib
Shoaib Tanvir
<rpat...@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>aap ne khadsha zaahir kiya hai ke kaheeN Sho'aib Saahib aap ki is
>kaavish par naaraaz na ho jaayeN. I can't imagine why he would; now at
>least 80% of his ghazal is in-meter! unheN to aap ka aihsaanmand hona
>chaahiye --- aur, haaN, agar voh naaraaz hote hi haiN to hone deejiye;
>agli baar islaah lene kahaaN jaayeN ge? :-))
You are right Raj Kumar Sahab. Only an idiot will take offense at the
kindness of Ayesha Sahiba. I am very grateful to her for giving some
shape to my original writing which I had mistaken for a ghazal.
>> kheti mere lahu ki banjar si ho chali hai
>> ujRay hue shehar ke manzar si ho chali hai
>
>In the second line, ke ---> ka; clearly, a typo.
>matla buraa naheeN hai, magar yeh 'lahu ki kheti' baRi ghalat baat hai!
>Do you see, why? I think I'll leave this as an assignment for you!
I have trited to change it to:-
ab dil ki sarzameeN bhi banjar si ho chali hai
Please help me see if it still does not work.
>> phirti hai dar badar ab shab bhi firaaq ki kyun
>> yeh bhi meri tarah kya be-ghar si ho chali hai?
>
>agarche ab meter durust hai, magar yeh 'bhi' sticking between 'shab' and
>'firaaq' bahut chubhta hai.
Raj Kumar Sahab you for sure know without a doubt that I have problems
with meter but still I have tried to change it to the following,
though I am not sure if it is still in meter:-
ab tau shab-e-firaaq bhi phirti hai dar badar si
>
>> dukhta hai sab wajud ab is raat–e -chodhweeN meiN
>> goya yeh chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
>One possible solution: change this to 'chaudhveen ki shab'. Personally,
>I don't like this either, magar guzaare ke liye Theek hai.
I think I will have to discard this she'r from the ghazal.
>> rehte haiN is liye ham Shoaib ab malool se
>> dil meiN kisi ki baateN nashtar si ho chali hai
>
>I am sorry to say that the maqta is still in serious trouble.
>
>The first misra is out-of meter, for it sounds like
>rehte haiN is liye ham "show-aib" ab "maloo" se.
>
>The second misra, in its original version, was sadly out of meter. You
>put your finger right where the defect was, and corrected it by
>replacing 'baat' by 'baateN'. But, but, but, ---- this introduces a new
>problem.
>You know 'baateN' is a plural noun; however, the verb here needs a
>singular noun!
>
>So the job isn't over yet.
I will try to work on it once I have little more guidance/knowledge
about the meter.
>P.S. maiN voh ghazal, jis ki farmaa'ish aap ne , Sho'aib Saahib ne aur
>Ajainder Saahib ne ki thi, post karne ki soch hi rahaa tha ke is haaliya
>ghazal ne haNgaama barpaa kar diya. ab yeh soch rahaa hooN ke zaraa yeh
>haNgaama tham le to maiN aap sab ki farmaa'ish poori karooN ---
>kiyooN-ke is vaqt to naqqar-khaane meiN bhalaa tooti ki aavaaz ko kaun
>sune ga? :-))
Aap kiyuN sharminda karte heiN? Aap apni ghazal zaroor pesh kijiye
please. Meri ghazal numa koshish is qaabil nahiN hai ke uss ki waja se
real poets apna kalaam na pesh kareiN.
niazmand,
Shoaib
yogesh...@my-deja.com
rpat...@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca wrote:
> aye...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > dukhta hai sab wajud ab is raat–e -chodhweeN meiN
> > goya yeh chandni bhi patthar si ho chali hai
>
>
> One possible solution: change this to 'chaudhveen ki shab' Personally,
> I don't like this either, magar guzaare ke liye Theek hai.
>
>
kyaa baate.n ho rahii hai janaab?
ek potential ustaadanii 'illegal' alfaaz istemaal kar rahii hai.n :-) ,
ustaad ji kahte hain ke chalo 'guzaare' kar le.n :-)), udhar alag post
mein, shaagird ji kahate hai.n ke is sher ko 'discard' kar de.nge :( ,
aisaa Gazab kyuu.n!
ab zaraa sunaa_uu.n ke aaj apanii baarii hai:-))
sulaGta hai ma'taab se meraa vujuud yuu.n
goyaa ke chaa.ndanii bhi aKhgar sii ho chalii hai
Kidding aside, I hope you like my effort. But remember, Raj Sahib, I am
using the 'other' meter!
The nexus of pain with vujuud and chaa.ndani is very appealing. Why
should such a nice idea be abandoned?
Regards,
Yogesh
Shoaib Tanvir
>The nexus of pain with vujuud and chaa.ndani is very appealing. Why
>should such a nice idea be abandoned?
Yogesh Sahab, i am so glad to hear this from you. I would love to
'rescue' this she'r if at all possible. May be I should split the
ghazal into two separate ones in their respective meters and add more
ash'aar. But then who is to say the new ash'aar won't be in five
different meters?
May be I should just stop writing for a while and try to learn a few
basics about the meters. Please do continue your discourse in the
other thread. I am looking forward to it.
niazmand,
Shoaib