Ibn-e-Insha
Zoya
aaj kal maiN Ibn-e-Insha ka kalaam paRh rahii huuN. socha k jo
ghazaleN/nazmeN mujhe Khaas taur par pasaNd aa rahii haiN, unheN aap
sab ko bhii sunaatii chaluuN!
pehlii ghazal pesh-e-Khidmat hai:
Khuub hamaara saath nibhaaya, biich bhanwar meiN ChhoRa haat!
ham ko Dubo kar Khud saahil par jaa nikle ho--- aChhii baat!
shaam se le kar pau phaTne tak, kitni ruteN badaltii haiN
aas kii kaliyaaN, yaas kii patjhaR, subah ke ashkoN kii barsaat!
apnaa kaam to samjhaana hai, ai dil rishte joR k toR,
hijr kii raateN laakhoN karoRoN, vasl ke lamhe paaNch k saat!
ham se hamaara ishq na Chhiino, husn kii ham ko bhiik na do!
tum logoN ke duur Thikaane, ham logoN kii kya auqaat?!
rog tumhaara aur hai Insha, bedoN se kyuN chuhal karo?!
dard ke saude karne vale, dard se paa sakte haiN najaat?!
Ibn-e-Insha
_________Zoya
Kali Hawa
This dosen't seem to belong to Urdu poetry. It is so near mainstream
Hindi poetry
UVR
That's what Insha did. It was almost like he wrote in this kind of
language just to prove that he could.
As an aside, it is an interesting coincidence that this thread started
today, just as I came across the article by Ralph Russel I referred to
in that other thread.
-UVR.
Sushil Sharma
>
> - Show quoted text -
UVR saheb,
Zoya saheba is referring to (and quoting from the work of) the 20th
century Urdu writer Ibn-e-Insha (1927-1978) (re. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn-e-Insha),
while the comment "It was almost like he wrote in this kind of
language just to prove that he could" in relation to the Ralph Russell
article you mentioned, is for Sayyad Insha Allah Khan
'Insha' (1757-1818) (of "kamar bandhe huye yaN sab yaar baiThe haiN"
fame). Besides the obvious facts that both were reputed Urdu poets of
their respective times and both chose the taKhallus 'Insha', there is
not much else common between them. Also, as far as I am aware, the oft-
cited 'udaybhan charit' aka 'rani ketaki ki kahani' (in which he chose
to artificially write in a style that avoided overtly Persian and
Arabic words) was a conscious exception or a quirk, not a
representative of the normal literary style or language of Sayyad
Insha Allah Khan 'Insha'.
Regards,
Sushil
Naseer
>
> This dosen't seem to belong to Urdu poetry. It is so near mainstream
> Hindi poetry-
janaab-i-muHtaram Kala Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai,
I believe you may change your mind about the above comment after
reading the link which UVR Sahib has provided.
It is true that Ibn-i-Insha uses the izaafat rarely and this, along
with a high frequency of more homely words is what makes his poetry
stand out. Having said this, would you say that Hindi poets would
regularly use words like "KHuub, KHud, saaHil, shaam, yaas, subH,
ashk, rishtah, hijr, vasl, lamHah, 'ishq, Husn, auqaat, dard, saudaa
and najaat?
The only "GHair-maanuus" words for me were "bedoN" and "chuhal". The
formar I was aware of (and I believe a Hindi poet would write "vedoN")
and the latter I had to look up in my Urdu/English dictionary. I found
it there to mean "fun".
Khair-Khvaah,
Naseer
Kali Hawa
Naseer Sahib,
aadaab!
I am sorry if it appears from my post that the quoted poem does not
belong to Urdu poetry. I was not exposed to this kind of poetry in
Urdu therefore was quite surprised.
Anil Kala
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
I am not all that familiar with the hindi language.
I hope you didn't mean the four (?) Vedas (like Rig
Veda) etc. by using the word "vedoN". I thought the
word the poet had in mind was "baidoN" (meaning
hakeem or doctor). Perhaps UVR Saheb and Sushil Sharma-ji
would clarify which pronunciation is more "pra~chalit" in
hindi --- one with a "b" or one with a "v". Also, I feel
the word would be inscribed in hindi with a double "ai ki
maatra". Maybe the proper Devanagri spelling would also
use a "ya" at the end.
At least we should be grateful that the poet didn't use
the word "chaara~gar" !
Afzal
Kali Hawa
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is a drug company called Baidyanath, I don't know if it still
exist.
UVR
> while the comment "It was almost like he wrote in this kind of
> language just to prove that he could" in relation to the Ralph Russell
> article you mentioned, is for Sayyad Insha Allah Khan
> 'Insha' (1757-1818) (of "kamar bandhe huye yaN sab yaar baiThe haiN"
> fame). Besides the obvious facts that both were reputed Urdu poets of
> their respective times and both chose the taKhallus 'Insha', there is
> not much else common between them. Also, as far as I am aware, the oft-
> cited 'udaybhan charit' aka 'rani ketaki ki kahani' (in which he chose
> to artificially write in a style that avoided overtly Persian and
> Arabic words) was a conscious exception or a quirk, not a
> representative of the normal literary style or language of Sayyad
> Insha Allah Khan 'Insha'.
>
> Regards,
> Sushil
Sushil saahib,
I thank you for your vigilance.
However, I _would_ like to point out that I am (and was) aware
of the difference between the two Insha's (namely, Insha and
"son of" Insha). It's just that I was remiss in pointing that out
in my response to Kala sb., an act which, I freely admit, could
well come across as implying that I think 'this Insha is that Insha',
especially to someone not quite aware of the difference, or of
my own awareness thereof.
Anyway, it is my opinion that the 20th century Insha did adopt
the kind of language he did "just for the sake of it" -- and in his
case it wasn't an exception or anything. Indeed (this is a guess,
but), I think the "ibn-e-" part of his name may have something
to do with his desire to emulate the "quirky" behavior of the older
Insha from the latter's 'rani ketaki ki kahani' etc.
-UVR.
UVR
>
> Anyway, it is my opinion that the 20th century Insha did adopt
> the kind of language he did "just for the sake of it" -- and in his
> case it wasn't an exception or anything.
Meaning: he did it knowingly. On purpose.
-UVR.
Zoya
>
> This dosen't seem to belong to Urdu poetry. It is so near mainstream
>
I agree Kala Sahib, this is not your typical "urdu poetry', but that
is exactly what makes it so refreshing, in my opinion! :)
Zoya
> I am not all that familiar with the hindi language.
> I hope you didn't mean the four (?) Vedas (like Rig
> Veda) etc. by using the word "vedoN". I thought the
> word the poet had in mind was "baidoN" (meaning
> hakeem or doctor). Perhaps UVR Saheb and Sushil Sharma-ji
> would clarify which pronunciation is more "pra~chalit" in
> hindi --- one with a "b" or one with a "v". Also, I feel
> the word would be inscribed in hindi with a double "ai ki
> maatra". Maybe the proper Devanagri spelling would also
> use a "ya" at the end.
>
> At least we should be grateful that the poet didn't use
> the word "chaara~gar" !
Afzal Sahib,
Yes, I should have written 'baidoN' instead of 'bedoN', that would
have been much closer to the actual pronunciation.
I am no expert on Hindi either, but I did pause over this misra, and
the thought did occur to me that perhaps 'vaidoN' might have been
better. But I was writing from Ibn-e-Insha's original book, 'Chand
Nagar' and he has written it with a 'be', so I went along with that.
I, too, will wait for Sushil Sahib or UVR Sahib's response, but
personally I have heard 'vaid' more often than 'baid' in spoken Hindi.
Gentlemen, thank you for the interest in this thread. I'll be posting
some more ghazals shortly.
_________Zoya
UVR
I think it depends on whom you have heard speaking this word :-)
And not just that, it may depend on whether the person speaking
was male or female.
That might sound flippant, but no, I am serious. At least in the
kind of colloquial Hindi that is used by people hailing from the
in the interior areas of UP, MP and Bihar, 'baid' is more common
than 'vaid[ya]'. In general, most words that feature a 'v' tend to
get modified into using the 'b' instead -- 'bed' (ved),
'bides' (videsh),
ban (van=forest), bairagi (vairaagi), bachan (vachan=words], ...
In my experience, the 'v/w'-based pronunciations of these words
are more common amongst people who have received some level
of formal education (which is where the gender difference comes
in -- in these areas, women were [are?] not usually literate).
One rather strange observation I have made is that usually it is
the colloquial pronunciation of these words that makes it into
the Insha-ji type of Urdu, and not the Sanskritized or even the
'less vulgar' pronunciation. For example, I haven't read much
of Insha-ji, but I can imagine phrases like 'baid hakeem' or
'bed-puraan' fitting right into his work, but not 'vaidya hakeem'
or 'ved puraaNR'.
-UVR.
PS: But if you ask someone from Delhi who is now in their
30s or 40s, they might well say 'vaid' is more common than
'baid'. But they would, I suspect, still not go so far as to
say 'vaidya'.
Naseer
>
> Naseer Saheb,
>
> I am not all that familiar with the hindi language.
> I hope you didn't mean the four (?) Vedas (like Rig
> Veda) etc. by using the word "vedoN". I thought the
> word the poet had in mind was "baidoN" (meaning
> hakeem or doctor). Perhaps UVR Saheb and Sushil Sharma-ji
> would clarify which pronunciation is more "pra~chalit" in
> hindi --- one with a "b" or one with a "v". Also, I feel
> the word would be inscribed in hindi with a double "ai ki
> maatra". Maybe the proper Devanagri spelling would also
> use a "ya" at the end.
>
janaab-i-Afzal Sahib aadaab 'arz hai,
I did take the meaning "doctor/Hakiim" but unfortunately mis-spelt the
word, not only once but twice. I won't offer any excuses, not even
freudian slips! As for v>b transition, please see my post in reply to
UVR Sahib's.
KHair-Khvaah,
Naseer
Naseer
> say 'vaidya'.- Hide quoted text -
>
muHtaram UVR Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai,
Just one or two very quick remarks as I need to leave home within the
next few minutes.
My feeling is that the "b" words used in Urdu in "ban", "banaaras",
"baid" "barkhaa" barsaat" etc have been the words used by ordinary
folk in their day to day speech. These words in their journey from
Sanskrit to common speech of the people may have taken centuries if
not longer.
The literary Hindi pronunciations with "v" goes back to the written
word in Sanskrit literature. Hence we get van, varnaasii, vaid,
varshaa...etc. Other examples one could mention are des>desh,
raat>raatri. This would be in agreement with your view that women who
have had no access to education (and hence to the written word) tend
to or have tended to pronounce these words with a "b".
devanaagrii symbols for "b" and "v" are remarkably similar. I wonder
if we should read anything into this.
A similar harkening back to the "original" pronunciation occurs in
Urdu too. Take for example the word "safed/sufed". You will also find
this written as "saped", as the "p" was the original consonant in this
word. since Arabic does not have the "p" sound in it's repertoire,
"f" and "b" were used instead... paadshah>baadshah, asp (horse)>asb.
Later a symbol for "p" was "invented" to write the Farsi "p" words.
In Punjabi, one also gets this b/v transition. "baal/vaal" (hair)
readily comes to mind. I don't know if "vaal" was the original
pronunciation or not.
KHair-Khvaah,
Naseer
Naseer
muHtaramah Zoya Sahiba, aadaab,
A short piece by Khalid Hassan, which may interest you and other
ALUPers.
Ibne Insha's last letter
Khalid Hasan
But it was the summer of 1977 in London I was thinking of. That was
the summer Ibne Insha, a poet and writer whose like we may perhaps
never see again, lay fatally ill in a suburban hospital. I remember
the afternoon a friend and I spent at his bedside. He showed not the
least concern for his condition and kept delighting us with one story
after another. He insisted on walking with us to the door and then
through the corridor down to the ground floor.
The other day, I came across what is said to be the last piece written
by Ibne Insha . The effervescence of his limpid prose I am unable to
capture because all translations are at best approximations of the
original, but whatever the effort's worth, it may still tell those who
did not know him and have not read him, something of that delightful
man who was always full of the light of life and sparkling humour.
This is how he describes his illness. "What ails us is named after Dr
Hodgkin's, an Englishman, who discovered it in 1832. It has something
to do with lymph nodes. Discover it he did but its cause he failed to
find, so its treatment you can forget about. To this day, no one knows
what causes it. Our first reaction on being told what ailed us was one
of joy. Our disease had an Englishman's name, which gave it quality
and made it rare. It is no garden variety disease like influenza,
pneumonia, tuberculosis, typhoid or malaria. But when we read a little
about it, we did have a moment of anxiety. No straight simple illness
this thing is. In fact, it is actually terminal. There is no
guaranteed treatment; what goes by the name of treatment is
experimental. These Englishmen, Americans and Germans appear to have
nothing else to do except discover new diseases. Then once they get
hold of a patient, they push ten different medicines down his throat
on the assumption that one of them will work. Surgery is thrown in for
keeps. Why can't they find one single antidote like our Amrit Dhara,
which can be eaten, applied or drunk with water, even sniffed through
a handkerchief. The magic potions invented by our physicians and
hakims are a miracle, effective against constipation, diarrhoea,
earache, skins sores, lack of urination, excess of urination, falling
hair or, if applied to the skin, programmed to remove hair. One
gentleman has been advertising his miracle drug as "effective against
piles and other ailments of the eye.'"
Ibne Insha was operated upon for the removal of his spleen. He
writes, "The other day, we had barely had that tube they have stuck in
our nostrils taken out, when in walked Faiz sahib who is in London. If
there was to be some certainty that Faiz sahib will come to look you
up, that is reason enough to undergo an operation ... There is nothing
to surgery these days. Even if you don't need it, doctors perform it
out of a sense of fun. There was this gentleman with a cough who went
to pick up a linctus. The doctor operated his calf instead. And while
it is true that the pain in his calf became a permanent feature
thereafter, the cough disappeared completely ... There is an array of
buttons at the bottom of our bed about whose precise use we remain in
the dark. Whenever we have attempted to push one of them, the result
has invariably been contrary to what we intended. Often, by mistake
when we press something, a machine comes to life. Result? The head
gets lowered while our feet point skywards. This is a veritable
devil's workshop. In our hospitals at home, all they have is a simple
winding mechanism. Even more sure-fire is the method whereby a couple
of bricks are placed under the feet of the end that needs to be
raised. In the event that no bricks are at hand, books can do nicely.
Under one foot of the bed you have 'Behishti Zaiwar' and under the
other 'Alipur ka Ailchi'. Obviously books have their uses."
Before his operation, the late Muslehuddin of PTV who was in London
with Yusuf Kamran, Kishwar Naheed's late husband, went to the hospital
to record an interview with Ibne Insha. Muslehuddin had also recorded
a long, haunting interview of Nasir Kazmi as he lay dying in a Lahore
hospital. This is how Ibne Insha describes the encounter. "Before
being carted into the operation theatre, we had recorded a monumental
essay for the world and its people and placed it in a sealed envelope
wherein we had enunciated our philosophy of life and asked others to
follow the strait and narrow path that we ourselves had been unable to
take for unavoidable reasons. What a pity that that masterpiece of
eloquence and rhetoric will not come to light for the time being. From
Pakistan our friend Muslehuddin of PTV was in London recently and
after spending an unmentionable sum of money, he came to visit us in
the company of an English cameraman. We were photographed from every
angle. Yusuf Kamran who was also here asked us some very learned
questions. Several of our poems were also recorded. We knew why they
were doing this, but we kept a straight face. Why break their hearts!
What saddens us is that they wasted a lot of our national television's
money. You see, if the desired opportunity to broadcast that interview
does not arise soon, not only will there be questions asked but there
may even be an official inquiry. But we are not to blame for this ...
or are we?"
Ibne Insha's prophetic poem 'Insha ji ab kooch karo, iss shehr mein
ji ka lagana kya' had been written some years earlier. Ironically, it
was sung by Amanat Ali Khan who also took that road not long after.
(Friday Times)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Zoya
> PS: But if you ask someone from Delhi who is now in their
> 30s or 40s, they might well say 'vaid' is more common than
> 'baid'. But they would, I suspect, still not go so far as to
> say 'vaidya'.
UVR Sahib, that should cover most of my Indian friends!!! ;)
Zoya
>
> muHtaramah Zoya Sahiba, aadaab,
>
> A short piece by Khalid Hassan, which may interest you and other
> ALUPers.
>
> Ibne Insha's last letter
>
> Khalid Hasan
>
> KHair-andesh,
> Naseer
Naseer bhaii,
Thank you so very much for posting this article, and also the other
article in Afzal Sahib's thread. I found both of them immensely
interesting and informative.
Thanks again! :)
________Zoya
Zoya
Ibn-e-Insha kii ek aur ghazal pesh-e-Khidmat hai.
is ghazal meiN bala kii naghmagii hai, aur ise be_saaKhta gungunaane
ko jii chaahta hai!
piit karnaa to ham se nibhaana sajan! ham ne pehle hii din tha kahaa
na sajan?!
tum hii majbuur ho, ham hii muKhtaar haiN! Khair maana sajan, yeh bhii
maana sajan!! :)
ab jo hone ke qisse sabhii ho chuke, tum hameN kho chuke, ham tumheN
kho chuke,
aage dil kii na baatoN meiN aana sajan! k yeh dil hai sada ka divaana
sajan!!
yeh bhii sach hai na kuChh baat jii kii banii, suunii raateN haiN
dekha kiye chaandni!
par yeh sauda hai ham ko puraana sajan, aur jiine ka apne bahaana
sajan!
shehar ke log aChhe haiN, hamdard haiN, par hamaarii suno ham jahaaN
gard haiN,
daagh-e-dil na kisii ko dikhaana sajan, yeh zamaana nahiiN voh zamaana
sajan!
us ko muddat huii sabr karte hue, aaj kuu-e-vafa se guzarte hue
puuChh kar us galii ka Thhikaana sajan, apne 'Insha' ko bhii dekh aana
sajan!!
Ibn-e-Insha
_________Zoya
Naseer
> us ko muddat huii sabr karte hue, aaj kuu-e-vafa se guzarte hue
> puuChh kar us galii ka Thhikaana sajan, apne 'Insha' ko bhii dekh aana
> sajan!!
muHtaramah Zoya Sahiba, aadaab 'arz hai,
mere haaN "galii" kii jagah "gadaa" likhaa huaa hai. nah jaane diigar
ALUPers is ke baare meN kyaa kahte haiN?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
Pehle yeh bataaeN ke "mere haaN" se kya matlab hai ? Agar apnee
zaati bayaaz ka zikr hai to sher kabhee kabhee GHalat bhee naql
kiye ja sakte haiN. HaaN, agar zikr kisi 'printed' kitaab ka hai
to alag baat hai.
Siaaq-o-sabaaq ke aetibaar se yahaaN "galii" hee Theek mehsoos hota
hai. Shaa'ir "Insha" ke muta'aaliq keh raha hai ke use bhee dekh
aana -- agar zaroorat ho to us "galii" ka pata bhi poochh lena,
jahaaN woh rehta hai.
Agar yahaaN "gadaa" farz kar liya jaae, to kuchh log use "gad-e"
bhee paRheNge :
Poochh kar us gad-e ka Thikaana sajan".
Afzal
Zoya
aadaab Naseer bhaii,
maiN ne abhii abhii Ibn-e-Insha kii kitaab 'chaand nagar' uThha kar
yeh misra phir se dekha, aap bilkul sahiih keh rahe haiN. 'puuChh kar
us gadaa ka Thhikaana sajan' hii likha hua hai. maiN ne hii type karte
vaqt ghalat likhaa tha.
darasal kaii baar aisa hota hai k maiN kisii lafz ka pehla harf dekh
kar tezii se aage baRh jaatii huuN, aur phir bina niiche dekhe type
kar detii huuN. yahaaN bhii kuChh aisa hii hua hai. nishaan dehii ka
bahut shukriyah, Alup par posts edit karne kii option nahiiN hai,
varna maiN zaruur misra edit kar detii.
shukriyah.
_________Zoya
Zoya
>
> Siaaq-o-sabaaq ke aetibaar se yahaaN "galii" hee Theek mehsoos hota
> hai. Shaa'ir "Insha" ke muta'aaliq keh raha hai ke use bhee dekh
> aana -- agar zaroorat ho to us "galii" ka pata bhi poochh lena,
> jahaaN woh rehta hai.
>
> Agar yahaaN "gadaa" farz kar liya jaae, to kuchh log use "gad-e"
> bhee paRheNge :
>
> Poochh kar us gad-e ka Thikaana sajan".
>
> Afzal
aadaab, Afzal Sahib!
jaisa k maiN ne Naseer bhai se bhii kahaa, kitaab meiN 'gadaa' hii
likha hua hai. maiN ab soch rahii huuN, kyuNk pehle misre meiN kuu-e-
vafa kahaa gaya hai, duusre misre meiN galii kehna vaise bhii sahiih
nahiin lagta. mujhii se typo huii thii.
vaise yeh bhii aap sach hai k yahaaN 'gadaa' zara sa badal kar agar
'gade' paRhaa jaaye to bahut gaRbaR ho jaayegii!!! :)
tavajjo' kaa bahut shukriyah, Afzal Sahib.
_________Zoya
Naseer
>
muHtaram janaab-i-Afzal Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai,
"mere haaN" se merii muraad "mere ghar meN (jo kitaab hai)" thii!!!
aap kii baat vaise maiN bhaaNp gayaa huuN. mere paas koii "zaati
bayaaz" nahiiN hai.
"gadaa" ko shi'r meN shaamil karte hue maiN yih ma'nii letaa huuN..
"us ko muddat huii sabr karte hue, aaj kuu-e-vafa se guzarte hue
puuChh kar us gadaa ka Thhikaana sajan, apne 'Insha' ko bhii dekh
aana
sajan"
us (Inshaa) ko sabr karte hue ek 'arsah biit gayaa hai. merii jaaN,
agar tumhaara guzar aaj "kuu-e-vafaa" se ho to vahaaN se us gadaa
(Inshaa) kaa Thikaanaa puuchh lenaa jis ko mil kar tumheN apne Inshaa
kaa bhii deedaar ho jaae gaa!
rahii baat "gadaa" se "gad-e" kaa ban jaanaa, to yahaaN zaahir hai, do
chashmii he darkaar hai. ho saktaa hai kih Inshaa kii zillat kii Had
ek GHariib gadhe kii rusvaaii tak pahuNch gaii ho!!
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
Naseer Saheb,
Yeh "do chashmee he" waali baat mere zehn men hargiz naheeN thi.
Mera ishaara is jaanib tha ke aise jumloN men aksar-o-beshtar
"alif" ya "he" ko "baRee ye" se badal diya jaata hai. Misaal ke
taur par :
"Bas ek roTee khaana ka sawaal hai" jise
"bas ek roTee khaane ka sawaal hai" se badal diya jaata hai.
Yeh jumla "gada/faqeer" kee munaasibat se likha hai. Doosri
misaal isee lafz "jumla" kee dekhiye :
"Is jumla ka matlab meri samajh men naheeN aaya" ya phir
"Is jumle ka matlab meri samajh men naheeN aaya".
Aap KHud Insha ke doosre misre ko ek-do baar paRheN to shaayad
baat waazeh ho sake-gee.
Ek baat aur. Urdu shaa'iree men lafz "gada" ist'emaal zaroor kiya
gaya hai, lekin hamaare des men (donoN mulkoN men) is se 'aam taur
par "beggar" jaise m'anee liye jaate haiN. Mere KHayaal men Faarsi
shaa'iree men "gada" ka matlab qadre muKHtalif hota hai, jise
"mystic" jaise m'anee bhee keh sakte haiN. Aap is silsile men kya
kehte haiN ?
Afzal
UVR
>
> Ek baat aur. Urdu shaa'iree men lafz "gada" ist'emaal zaroor
> kiya gaya hai, lekin hamaare des men (donoN mulkoN men) is
> se 'aam taur par "beggar" jaise m'anee liye jaate haiN. Mere
> KHayaal men Faarsi shaa'iree men "gada" ka matlab qadre
> muKHtalif hota hai, jise "mystic" jaise m'anee bhee keh sakte
> haiN. Aap is silsile men kya kehte haiN ?
>
> Afzal
kuchh aisee hii "meaning modification" se Urdu/Hindi meN lafz
-saadhu- ko bhi guzarna paRaa hai. Sanskrit meN is lafz ke
ma'ani hote haiN (a person that is) "good, pure", waGhairah.
magar aaj kal woh zamaana aa gayaa hai k is lafz ko har us
shaKhs ke liye ist'emaal kar liyaa jaa rahaa hai jo gerue rang
ke (waise waale) kapRe pahane hue nazar aa jaaye. phir
chaahe uski niyyat meN kitna hi khoT kyoN na ho yaa uski
kartootoN se kitni hi "Khuraafaat ki boo" kyoN na aati ho.
With apologies to ALUP for that 'off-topic editorial' comment,
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
Apropos of what you write, it is even more amusing (?) when
English language newspapers in India, for whatever reasons,
refer to these "gerue kapRe" waale people by the English
word for "Sadhu", viz. "saint". Example :
"About 100 saints staged a mass protest in Varanasi today."
Afzal
Naseer
> Naseer Saheb,
>
> Yeh "do chashmee he" waali baat mere zehn men hargiz naheeN thi.
>
> Mera ishaara is jaanib tha ke aise jumloN men aksar-o-beshtar
> "alif" ya "he" ko "baRee ye" se badal diya jaata hai. Misaal ke
> taur par :
>
> "Bas ek roTee khaana ka sawaal hai" jise
>
> "bas ek roTee khaane ka sawaal hai" se badal diya jaata hai.
>
> Yeh jumla "gada/faqeer" kee munaasibat se likha hai. Doosri
> misaal isee lafz "jumla" kee dekhiye :
>
> "Is jumla ka matlab meri samajh men naheeN aaya" ya phir
>
> "Is jumle ka matlab meri samajh men naheeN aaya".
>
> Aap KHud Insha ke doosre misre ko ek-do baar paRheN to shaayad
> baat waazeh ho sake-gee.
>
> Ek baat aur. Urdu shaa'iree men lafz "gada" ist'emaal zaroor kiya
> gaya hai, lekin hamaare des men (donoN mulkoN men) is se 'aam taur
> par "beggar" jaise m'anee liye jaate haiN. Mere KHayaal men Faarsi
> shaa'iree men "gada" ka matlab qadre muKHtalif hota hai, jise
> "mystic" jaise m'anee bhee keh sakte haiN. Aap is silsile men kya
> kehte haiN ?
>
janaab-i-Afzal Sahib aadaab 'arz hai, aadaab 'arz hai.
I must admit that I was not thinking of Urdu -aa (or -ah) declining to
-e in the oblique case, i.e before a postposition..kaa/kii, se, par,
meN etc. The reason for this is that the word "gadaa" is one of those
words which is not declined and if it were to be declined, the
resulting sentence would be wrong.
"Majiid ne us gadaa se kahaa kih tum itne haTTe kaTTe ho, bhiik
maaNgne kii ba-jaae koii kaam kyoN nahiiN kar lete!" zaahir hai,
yahaaN ham "gadaa" ko "gad-e" nahiiN likheN ge. yaad rahe kih ham Urdu
vaale 'umuuman gadaa kii jagah "gadaa-gar" likhte haiN jise saHiiH
nahiiN maanaa jaata.
There are many "gadaa" type words which do not decline, e.g jafaa,
daanaa etc and amongst local words,naanaa, daadaa etc.
We have had a long debate on this issue in one of threads. I think it
was called "kalkatte se hote hue mere haaN, mere Ghariib-Khaanah/e
bhii aaiye gaa" or something like this.
My personal feeling is, that insofar as Arabic and Persian words
ending with a -he are concerned, there is a growing tendency not to
decline them. For example, the sentence you quoted above..
"is jumlah kaa matlab merii samajh meN nahiiN aayaa" is more likely to
be written as given above rather than "is jumle kaa matlab". This is
the reason for finding both "ka'bah meN" and "ka'be meN". Words like
"kalkattah" though written with a -he, I think, actually should be
written with an alif. I believe "maiN kalkattah paaNch baje pahuNchaa"
would, strictly speaking, be wrong.
Coming to the Persian meaning of "gadaa". The dictionaries give the
meaning as "begger" and "mendicant". I think both mean the same thing.
As for connotations of "holiness", I suppose poverty is considered a
virtue awr jo bhii KHudaa kaa vaastah de kar maangtaa hai ( especially
whilst being suitably attired) would be thought of as virtuous and
holy. "darvesh" (Persian) and "faqiir" (Arabci) both mean a poor
person and both carry the holy flavour.
Going on a tangent "Ghariib" means a "stranger" in Arabic and the
normal meaning in Urdu is a "poor person". I suppose if you were a
stranger amongst another people in the olden days, you would n't be
carrying traveller's cheques with you, would you? So, it is not
surprising that it imported the "poor" meaning.
KHair-Khvaah,
Naseer
Naseer
> darasal kaii baar aisa hota hai k maiN kisii lafz ka pehla harf dekh
> kar tezii se aage baRh jaatii huuN, aur phir bina niiche dekhe type
> kar detii huuN. yahaaN bhii kuChh aisa hii hua hai. nishaan dehii ka
> bahut shukriyah.
muHtaramah Zoya Sahiba tasliimaat,
If I were to give you a pound every time you found a spelling mistake
in my posts, you would become a very rich lady indeed!! I have a
habbit of thinking one thing and typing something else. Basically, I
don't seem to have brain/eye/hand co-ordination. What I am saying is
your "error" is nothing compared with my blunders.
We men have steered your post into a totally different direction.
Apologies.
The Ghazal you have posted is indeed very beautiful. Although
seemingly it has simple language, yet, if one gives it some thought,
there is more to it than meets the eye.
piit karnaa to ham se nibhaana sajan! ham ne pehle hii din tha kahaa
na sajan?!
tum hii majbuur ho, ham hii muKhtaar haiN! Khair maana sajan, yeh
bhii
maana sajan!! :)
Very nice. Insha has a smile on his face as he gives into whatever his
beloved says to him.
yeh bhii sach hai na kuChh baat jii kii banii, suunii raateN haiN
dekha kiye chaandni!
par yeh sauda hai ham ko puraana sajan, aur jiine ka apne bahaana
sajan!
Here one could take the word "saudaa" in all it's meanings.
1) blackness (contrast it with chhaNdnii)
2) madness (as in saudaa-ii)
3) deal (as in "yih saudaa hameN bahut mahNgaa paRaa hai)
us ko muddat huii sabr karte hue, aaj kuu-e-vafa se guzarte hue
puuChh kar us galii ka Thhikaana sajan, apne 'Insha' ko bhii dekh
aana
sajan!!
The matla' is simply beautiful.
Talking about "naGhmagii", what about Akhtar Shiiraanii's work below?
(Another tangent!!!!)
rog kaa raag:
unheN jii se maiN kaise bhulaauuN sakhii mere jii ko jo aa ke lubhaa
hii gae
mere man meN vuh prem basaa hii gay, mujhe priit kaa rog lagaa hii
gae
kiye maiN ne hazaar hazaar jatan kih bachaa rahe priit kii aag se man
mire man meN ubhaar ke apnii lagan vuh lagaao kii aag lagaa hii gae
baRe sukh se yih biite the chawdah baras kabhii maiN ne nah piyaa
thaa
prem kaa ras
mirii aaNkhoN ko shyaam dikhaa ke daras mire harday meN chaao basaa
hii
gae
kabhii sapnoN kii chhaaNo meN soii nah thii kabhii bhuul ke dukh se
maiN roii nah thii
mujhe prem ke sapne dikhaa hii gae mujhe priit ke dukh se rulaa hii
gae
rahe raat kii raat sidhaar gae mujhe sapnaa samajh ke bisaar gae
maiN thii haar gale se utaar gae maiN diyaa thii jise vuh bujhaa hii
gae
sakhii koyaleN saaonii gaaeN gii phir naii kaliyaaN bhii chhaaonii
chhaaeN bhii phir
mire chain kii raateN nah aaeN gii phir jinheN nain ke niir miTaa hii
gae
mire jii meN thii baat chhupaae rakhuuN sakhii chaah ko man meN
dabaae
rakhuuN
unheN dekh ke aaNsuu jo aa hii gae mirii chaah kaa bhed vuh paa hii
gae
KHair-andesh,
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
> On Mar 7, 3:29 am, "Zoya" <zbi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>darasal kaii baar aisa hota hai k maiN kisii lafz ka pehla harf dekh
>>kar tezii se aage baRh jaatii huuN, aur phir bina niiche dekhe type
>>kar detii huuN. yahaaN bhii kuChh aisa hii hua hai. nishaan dehii ka
>>bahut shukriyah.
>
>
> muHtaramah Zoya Sahiba tasliimaat,
>
> If I were to give you a pound every time you found a spelling mistake
> in my posts, you would become a very rich lady indeed!! I have a
> habbit of thinking one thing and typing something else. Basically, I
> don't seem to have brain/eye/hand co-ordination.
Naseer Saheb,
This is much more typical of elderly people like you know who.
Aur aap to maasha~Allah...... !
> What I am saying is
> your "error" is nothing compared with my blunders.
Here, at least in one instance, I am in agreement with you,
though quite reluctantly. IIRC, you did refer to Zoya Saheba
recently as "Zoya Sahib" !! And let me not talk about
Freudian slips !!!
Afzal
> Naseer
Zoya
> > Naseer wrote:
> > If I were to give you a pound every time you found a spelling mistake
> > in my posts, you would become a very rich lady indeed!! I have a
> > habbit of thinking one thing and typing something else. Basically, I
> > don't seem to have brain/eye/hand co-ordination.
>
> Naseer Saheb,
>
>
> > What I am saying is
> > your "error" is nothing compared with my blunders.
>
> Here, at least in one instance, I am in agreement with you,
> though quite reluctantly. IIRC, you did refer to Zoya Saheba
> recently as "Zoya Sahib" !! And let me not talk about
> Freudian slips !!!
>
> Afzal
>
Naseer Sahib,
Now that particular error is going to cost you way more than just one
pound!!!!
Afzal Sahib,
I bet you that was a typo!! Any gentleman who knows me even remotely
would not refer to me as a 'sahib'! ;) I am as 'lady like' as they
get! :) :)
Afzal A. Khan
Zoya Saheba,
Of course, that was a typo ! It is just that I couldn't resist
it. And just as we are honoured to have such a lady in our midst,
we are equally grateful to have such a thorough gentleman as
Naseer Saheb amongst us.
Afzal
Zoya
>
> If I were to give you a pound every time you found a spelling mistake
> your "error" is nothing compared with my blunders.
>
> seemingly it has simple language, yet, if one gives it some thought,
> there is more to it than meets the eye.
Thanks, Naseer bhaii! :)
>
> piit karnaa to ham se nibhaana sajan! ham ne pehle hii din tha kahaa na sajan?!
> tum hii majbuur ho, ham hii muKhtaar haiN! Khair maana sajan, yeh bhii maana sajan!! :)
>
> Very nice. Insha has a smile on his face as he gives into whatever his
> beloved says to him.
I agree! this is my favorite sher in the entire ghazal. I love the
thought,
"na_haq ham majbuurooN par tuhmat hai muKhtaari kii!"
>
> yeh bhii sach hai na kuChh baat jii kii banii, suunii raateN haiN dekha kiye chaandni!
> par yeh sauda hai ham ko puraana sajan, aur jiine ka apne bahaana sajan!
>
> Here one could take the word "saudaa" in all it's meanings.
>
> 1) blackness (contrast it with chhaNdnii)
>
> 2) madness (as in saudaa-ii)
>
> 3) deal (as in "yih saudaa hameN bahut mahNgaa paRaa hai)
Personally, I am inclined to go with meaning # 2.
>
> us ko muddat huii sabr karte hue, aaj kuu-e-vafa se guzarte hue
> puuChh kar us gadaa ka Thhikaana sajan, apne 'Insha' ko bhii dekh aana sajan!!
>
> The matla' is simply beautiful.
Talking about errors, you mean maqta, right?! Is that another pound
for me?! :)
>
> Talking about "naGhmagii", what about Akhtar Shiiraanii's work below?
> (Another tangent!!!!)
>
> rog kaa raag:
>
bahut Khuub, vaah!! AKhtar Sahirani kii yeh dilpaziir ghazal post
karne ka bahut shukriyah!
___________Zoya
> KHair-andesh,
> Naseer
Zoya
aur to koii bas na chalega, hijr ke dard ke maaroN ka,
subah ka honaa duubhar kar deiN, rasta rok sitaaroN ka!
jhuuTe sikkoN meiN bhii uThha dete haiN aksar sachcha maal,
shakleN dekh ke saude karna, kaam hai in banjaaroN ka!
apni zubaaN se kuChh na kaheNge, chup hii raheNge aashiq log,
tum se to itna ho sakta hai, puuChho haal bechaaroN ka!
jis jipsii ka zikr hai tum se, dil ko usii kii khoj rahi,
yuuN to hamaare shehar meiN aksar mela laga nigaaroN ka!
ek zara sii baat thii jis ka charcha pahuNcha gali gali,
ham gumnaamoN ne phir bhii ehsaan na maana yaaroN ka!
dard ka kehna chiiKh hii uThho, dil ka kehna vaza' nibhaayo,
sab kuChh sehna, chup chup rehna, kaam hai izzat daaroN ka!
Insha jii, ab ajnabiyoN meiN chain se baaqii umr kaTe,
jin kii Khaatir basti ChhoRi, naam na lo un pyaaroN ka!
Ibn-e-Insha
___________Zoya