Quae cum ita sint

Ed Cryer

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Aug 23, 2008, 11:31:50 AM8/23/08

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Quae cum ita sint

Does it mean "because things are so"
or
"although things are so"?

Ed

jsqu...@gmail.com

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Aug 23, 2008, 11:55:24 AM8/23/08

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I would guess the former. I emphasize
the guess aspect.

Johannes Patruus

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Aug 23, 2008, 1:34:50 PM8/23/08

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In principle, I suppose it could be either, depending on context.

BTW, the Bradley's Arnold Key sports the following interesting variant:

Quae cum ita se haberent, excedere urbe noluit
et id se facturum esse, ipso praesente praefecto, palam negavit.
This being the case, he was reluctant to leave the city,
and openly refused, in the governor's presence, to do so. (54:1)

Plus, "quae cum ita se habeant" is known, if not to Cicero, at least to Google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22quae%20cum%20ita%20se%20habeant%22

Patruus

Ed Cryer

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Aug 23, 2008, 1:37:28 PM8/23/08

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<jsqu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4537bdeb-22a1-44aa...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

I've taken a picture from this website;
http://www.rhul.ac.uk/classics/njl/latin/verbs6.html
and enlarged it for better viewing;
http://tinyurl.com/45eu4l

According to which, a rational process says that you are right.

Ed

p...@priest.com

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Aug 23, 2008, 1:54:54 PM8/23/08

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A book of phrases I have here ('Latin for the Illiterati') has this
term as: 'in these circumstances' thus I'm lead to believe it is
'because things are so'. Books aren't always right though.

The Cum in this statement is one of those hard ones...

phil

Ed Cryer

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Aug 23, 2008, 2:01:23 PM8/23/08

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<p...@priest.com> wrote in message
news:bd4deb53-bfa1-4f1a...@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com...

What does your book of phrases give for "Quibus rebus factis"; a
favourite of Julius Caesar?

Ed

Johannes Patruus

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Aug 23, 2008, 2:43:18 PM8/23/08

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Johannes Patruus wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Quae cum ita sint
>>
>> Does it mean "because things are so"
>> or
>> "although things are so"?
>
> In principle, I suppose it could be either, depending on context.

L&S has a citation of the relatively unusual "although" sense s.v. cum,
IV.B.2 ("quae cum ita essent ... tamen ... (although this was so)"):
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lexindex?lookup=cum&db=ls

Patruus

B. T. Raven

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Aug 24, 2008, 7:47:12 AM8/24/08

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be that as it may

Ed Cryer

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Aug 24, 2008, 9:46:42 AM8/24/08

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"B. T. Raven" <ni...@nihilo.net> wrote in message
news:C6mdnZ748eGo1yzV...@sysmatrix.net...

That tends more towards the "although" side than the "because". And the
latter is far more frequent in Latin.

Ed

Ed Cryer

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Aug 24, 2008, 5:01:51 PM8/24/08

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"Ed Cryer" <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote in message
news:g8phul$edh$1...@aioe.org...

For some reason Tinyurl won't work on this. So here's the full URL;
http://www.ecryer.fsnet.co.uk/Cum-Latin.jpg

Ed

B. T. Raven

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Aug 24, 2008, 5:53:07 PM8/24/08

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To me, it seems pretty much synonymous with the literal translation:

Which things since thus they may be....

Eduardus

Ed Cryer

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Aug 25, 2008, 5:41:19 PM8/25/08

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"B. T. Raven" <ni...@nihilo.net> wrote in message

news:s-OdnRPZ-PGlRSzV...@sysmatrix.net...

You may have a point here. I mean for "because" he could have used;
quod res sic se habet
quia res sic se habet
quoniam res sic se habet

and for "although"
etamsi
etsi
tametsi
quamquam
licet

But he used "quae cum ita sint" time and again. A politician's love of
uncommitted vagueness.

Ed

P.S. Cicero on the consulate-canvassing circuit;
"Quae cum ita sint, Quirites."
"Stick to Latin, pal. That's all Greek to me".
(:-