inveniemus viam aut faciemus
August de Man
"Troviamo la strada. O apriamone una nuova" (Let's find the
road. Or open a new one), attributed to Hannibal, and asks where
it comes from.
With Google I found 8200 times "aut viam inveniam aut faciam"
but no reference to Hannibal.
Someone else found "Inveniemus viam aut faciemus", which
Google gives 579 times, always attributed to Hannibal, never in
combination with "Livius" or "Livy".
Does anyone know the source? Another American fantasy?
August de Man
"Metrodore" <metr...@free.fr> scripsit in
fr.lettres.langues-aciennes.latin
news:413f0842$0$24277$626a...@news.free.fr...
> bonjour
> Me parvient d'Italie un tee-shirt sur lequel est écrite cette phrase
> remarquable, attribuée à Hannibal:
> Troviamo la strada. O apriamone una nuova
> quelqu'un saurait-il si cela se trouve quelque part dans Tite-Live
> ou autre, et ce que ça donne en latin, ou en carthaginois?
> Métrodore
>
Ed Cryer
"August de Man" <audeman apenstaart wanadoo punt nl> wrote in message
news:413f5869$0$61752$abc4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
> In the French group someone tells he got a t-shirt with the text
> "Troviamo la strada. O apriamone una nuova" (Let's find the
> road. Or open a new one), attributed to Hannibal, and asks where
> it comes from.
> With Google I found 8200 times "aut viam inveniam aut faciam"
> but no reference to Hannibal.
> Someone else found "Inveniemus viam aut faciemus", which
> Google gives 579 times, always attributed to Hannibal, never in
> combination with "Livius" or "Livy".
> Does anyone know the source? Another American fantasy?
>
> August de Man
>
brilliant motto, about the most positive one I've ever seen here. I know
I've heard it before.
I thought either Livy or Vergil. But the nearest I could find in Livy was;
Vincere scis, Hannibal; victoria uti nescis. (Livy XXII)
You know how to win, Hannibal, but not what to do with your winnings.
And in Vergil;
fata uiam inuenient. (Aeneid X)
The fates will find a way.
The saying seems highly appropriate for Hannibal. The Romans conceived an
enormous respect for him, and later generations built a myth whereby he
almost single-handedly overthrew Rome and its empires. I gave up my search
when I hit upon this website, in which it's the first one quoted, and
without source, although most of the others state source and there is a
general request to all and sundry to supply source s for those missing.
http://users.hol.gr/~barbanis/quotes.html
Ed
August de Man
> > With Google I found 8200 times "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam"
> > and 579 times "Inveniemus viam aut
faciemus"
Ed Cryer scripsit:
> The saying seems highly appropriate for Hannibal.
Yes, you immediately believe this is something Hannibal could have
said, and many clubs, universities etc. have taken either of the two
as
their motto.
I think Y. Ouvrard has found the answer, as "Métrodore" has written
to me. It has nothing to do with Hannibal, but comes from Seneca,
Hercules Furens 275ss.:
tenetque Thebas exul Herculeas Lycus. --
sed non tenebit. aderit et poenas petet
subitusque ad astra emerget; inueniet uiam
aut faciet.
I guess hese words are spoken by Iuno and the subject of
aderit-petet-emerget-inveniet-faciet is Hercules, who in this tragedy
punishes the tyrant Lycus, who has harassed his wife Megara.Then
Hercules goes mad and kills his wife and children.
(Hercules Furens can be found on
http://www.centrumlatinitatis.org/testi_latini/SenecaePhil/HerculesFurens.txt)
A very useful list of quotes is on a Brazilian site,
http://www.kocher.pro.br/dicionario/i09.htm, which says:
1680. Inveniet viam, aut faciet. [Sêneca, Hercules Furens 276].
Ele encontrará o caminho, ou construirá um.
VIDE: Aut inveniam viam, aut faciam. Viam inveniam aut faciam.
Probably this has been used as a proverb for a long time.
I guess then an American teacher made a story about Hannibal, and
made him say: "inveniemus viam aut faciemus". Maybe it is in some
school book. It is "my favorite quote" on many internet sites, and
in the plural it is always attributed to Hannibal, which they just
take over one from another without anyone being able to verify this.
Well, let's use it from time to time! Valete,
August de Man
Matt Matthias
Silius Italicus?
Livy pales into insignificance next to this master...
MM
August de Man <audeman apenstaart wanadoo punt nl> wrote in message
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