name for singing group

[ChoirMan]

Dear Latinists -

Hey there. A friend of mine is starting a vocal group dedicated to sacred polyphony, and she wants its name to have the word "misericordia" in it. Something like "songs of mercy" (since "misericordia" is one of those Latin words that has about thirteen different English translations). How would that work out properly in Latin? Would it be

- Cantica Misericordia
- Canticum Misericordium

something else?

Thank you, as ever, for your assistance -

Sincerely,
ChoirMan

[B. T. Raven]

Die Mon May 13 2013 13:25:01 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) ChoirMan
<jpia...@netscape.net> scripsit:

> Dear Latinists -
>
> Hey there. A friend of mine is starting a vocal group dedicated to sacred polyphony, and she wants its name to have the word "misericordia" in it. Something like "songs of mercy" (since "misericordia" is one of those Latin words that has about thirteen different English translations). How would that work out properly in Latin? Would it be
>
> - Cantica Misericordia
> - Canticum Misericordium
>
> something else?

Cantica misericordiae (clementiae, veniae, gratiae, etc.)

[Johannes Patruus]

Songs of mercy = Cantica misericordiae.

Googlable precedents for this use of the genitive singular after "cantica"
include:
Cantica laudis - songs of praise
Cantica aviditatis - songs of greed
Cantica lunae - songs of the moon

Patruus

[ChoirMan]

Thanks to you both for such speedy replies.

If the word "songs" were to be changed to "voices," then what would it be?

- Vox misericordiae
- Voces misericordiae

Something else?

Thanks again, most sincerely,

ChoirMan

[Johannes Patruus]

"Voces misericordiae" would seem to be the natural choice, analogous to
"Voces iustitiae"-
http://law.nmmu.ac.za/Faculty-Co-Curricular-Activities/Voces-Iustitiae---Faculty-Choir

. . . unless, that is, the choir is considered as a single collective
voice, in which case "Vox misericordiae", but this has been snaffled
already by some Polish outfit -
http://www.smb.lomza.opoka.org.pl/vm.php

Patruus

[Ed Cryer]

Then how about Vox Clementiae?

Should you wish for a learned treatise on "A Study of Clementia in the
Aeneid" then try this;
http://tinyurl.com/cyqo9cb

Ed

[ChoirMan]

Thanks again for the second round of quick replies! And now for the same query, Part the Third.

"Cantica" is definitely in.

How about...
" 'songs of the heart'
or 'singing hearts'
or 'songs from the soul'
or 'songs of freedom'
or 'songs of life' "

Cantica cordis
Cantico corda
Cantica spiritus
Cantica liberae
Cantica vivae

Corrections / suggestions?

Sincerely and gratefully yours,

ChoirMan

[Evertjan.]

ChoirMan wrote on 14 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> Thanks again for the second round of quick replies! And now for the
> same query, Part the Third.
>
> "Cantica" is definitely in.

But if you want to name the singers,
why name them "the song"?

"Cantores" - singers

"Pr�centores" - prime singers

>
> How about...
> " 'songs of the heart'
> or 'singing hearts'
> or 'songs from the soul'
> or 'songs of freedom'
> or 'songs of life' "
>
> Cantica cordis
> Cantico corda
> Cantica spiritus

Cantica spiritus asperis - songs of bitter spirit

Cantica spiritus lenis - songs of light spirit

Cantica spiritus circumflexis - songs of dynamic spirit

> Cantica liberae
> Cantica vivae

Cantica aquae vitae - songs of distilled spirit

>
> Corrections / suggestions?

Vox vociferationis miseri - the voice of wretched screeming

;-)

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Ed Cryer]

Cantica e pleno corde

Cantica totae animae

Cantica Vitalia

Ed

[ChoirMan]

Dear Ed -

How would these be in English?

> Cantica e pleno corde = songs of full hearts [?]

> Cantica totae animae = songs of the whole spirit [?]

> Cantica Vitalia = songs of life [? - and is there a reason that the "v" of "Vitalia" was capitalized, verses the uncapitalized second and third words of the other titles? ]

Thank you, again -

ChoirMan

[ChoirMan]

Dear Evertjan,

"Cantica aquae vitae" is what we'll be singing at the afterparty. Cheers!

- ChoirMan

[B. T. Raven]

Die Tue May 14 2013 11:02:01 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) ChoirMan
<jpia...@netscape.net> scripsit:

> Dear Ed -
>
> How would these be in English?
>
>> Cantica e pleno corde = songs of full hearts [?]
>
>> Cantica totae animae = songs of the whole spirit [?]

cantica totius animae

You're approaching it from the wrong side. The question should be "How
would these [English phrases] be in Latin.

[ChoirMan]

Dear B.T.,

Yes, that was my original question: please translate these English phrases into Latin.

Ed had proffered three Latin phrases, and I wasn't sure if he had translated English phrases I had supplied, or had instead given related Latin alternatives. So I was asking him, "What do *your* phrases mean?" because I wasn't sure.

Thank you for your clarifications!

- ChoirMan

[B. T. Raven]

Die Tue May 14 2013 13:02:11 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) ChoirMan
<jpia...@netscape.net> scripsit:

Since you aren't quoting the postings you are replying to, I'm not sure
which Ed you are talking about. I complicated things by sending this to
you privately instead of using followup:

"
> "Cantica" is definitely in.
>
> How about...
> " 'songs of the heart'
> or 'singing hearts'
> or 'songs from the soul'
> or 'songs of freedom'
> or 'songs of life' "
>
> Cantica cordis
> Cantico corda
> Cantica spiritus
> Cantica liberae
> Cantica vivae
>
> Corrections / suggestions?

Of those, only cantica cordis and cantica spiritūs are grammatical
(unless 'cantico' is the iterative form of the verb 'canto' and then
cantico corda is something like 'I sing (and sing) the hearts.)
The other two show adjectives not in agreement with their nouns.

>
> Sincerely and gratefully yours,
>
> ChoirMan
>
"

Eduardus (bt)

[Ed Cryer]

I had some vague idea that the latter could be an album title; "Songs of
Life". The other two were intended as descriptions of the album itself;
"Songs from a teeming heart", "Songs of the whole soul".
I feel a bit embarrassed about that "totae" (XXX!!! as BT has pointed
out below; the genitive singular being "totius").

Karl Jenkins did ok with "Adiemus". Maybe a Latin name will be
advantageous and reel in classical music lovers, but maybe it has to be
misformed like that one.
Or there's Vangelis' "Conquest of Paradise" which has Latin-sounding
words that mean nothing.


Ed

[ChoirMan]

Dear Eduardus/BT,

How would
- Cantico cordis (intended as "singing hearts")
- Cantica liberae (intended as "songs of freedom"), and
- Cantica vivae (intended as "songs of life")
be written correctly?

In the latter cases, I was trying to apply Patruus's earlier note:

<<Songs of mercy = Cantica misericordiae.

Googlable precedents for this use of the genitive singular after "cantica"
include:
Cantica laudis - songs of praise
Cantica aviditatis - songs of greed
Cantica lunae - songs of the moon>>

but I must have erred.

Thanks again for your help!

- ChoirMan

[ChoirMan]

More thoughts from my friend:

"trying to get the idea that the *music is sustaining, life-giving,* etc.

Current front runner of the previous options = Cantica vitalia

How about Cantae vivens - kind of wondering if we can riff on homo vivens...

I think we are close!"

Any other possibilities that present themselves?

Thank you again,

ChoirMan

[Johannes Patruus]

On 15/05/2013 18:24, ChoirMan wrote:
> More thoughts from my friend:
>
> "trying to get the idea that the *music is sustaining, life-giving,* etc.
>
> Current front runner of the previous options = Cantica vitalia
>
> How about Cantae vivens - kind of wondering if we can riff on homo vivens...

"Cantae" is a perfect passive participle -
http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?cantae

> I think we are close!"
>
> Any other possibilities that present themselves?
>
> Thank you again,
>
> ChoirMan

"Life-giving" brings to mind the ecclesiastical Latin verb "vivifico" -
http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#vivifico

So "life-giving songs" would be "cantica vivificantia", though that
requires a measurably higher degree of sobriety to articulate than
"cantica vitalia".

Patruus

[Ed Cryer]

Here's a lovely tongue-twister.
cantatio canticorum vivificantium.

I doubt even Horace could have made anything mellifluous from that.
I much prefer his;
Fauete linguis: carmina non prius
audita Musarum sacerdos
uirginibus puerisque canto.
(Give hush here. I sing for maidens and boys songs unheard before, a
priest of the Muses.)

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

Here's a great idea.
How about Horace's "exegi monumentum" ode set to the music of Handel's
"Zadok The Priest"?
At a slightly slower and more majestic pace than is the norm;
like this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj65u_VY0uM

Exegi monumentum aere perennius
regalique situ pyramidum altius,
quod non imber edax, non Aquilo inpotens
possit diruere aut innumerabilis
annorum series et fuga temporum. 5
Non omnis moriar multaque pars mei
uitabit Libitinam; usque ego postera
crescam laude recens, dum Capitolium
scandet cum tacita uirgine pontifex.
Dicar, qua uiolens obstrepit Aufidus 10
et qua pauper aquae Daunus agrestium
regnauit populorum, ex humili potens
princeps Aeolium carmen ad Italos
deduxisse modos. Sume superbiam
quaesitam meritis et mihi Delphica 15
lauro cinge uolens, Melpomene, comam.

Ed

[Evertjan.]

Johannes Patruus wrote on 15 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> On 15/05/2013 18:24, ChoirMan wrote:
>> More thoughts from my friend:
>>
>> "trying to get the idea that the *music is sustaining, life-giving,*
>> etc.
>>
>> Current front runner of the previous options = Cantica vitalia
>>
>> How about Cantae vivens - kind of wondering if we can riff on homo
>> vivens...
>
> "Cantae" is a perfect passive participle -
> http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?cantae

"Cantae vivens" ???

However the ppp can be used as a substantified adjective,
but why feminime?

Worse, "Cantae", contrarily to homo, being plural, it should be:

"Cantae viventes"

=======================

More usual as a substantuive is:
cantus -us [=song, chant] masc., fourth declension, so:

"Cantus viventes"

[Ed Cryer]

Evertjan. wrote:
> Johannes Patruus wrote on 15 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:
>
>> On 15/05/2013 18:24, ChoirMan wrote:
>>> More thoughts from my friend:
>>>
>>> "trying to get the idea that the *music is sustaining, life-giving,*
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Current front runner of the previous options = Cantica vitalia
>>>
>>> How about Cantae vivens - kind of wondering if we can riff on homo
>>> vivens...
>>
>> "Cantae" is a perfect passive participle -
>> http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?cantae
>
> "Cantae vivens" ???
>
> However the ppp can be used as a substantified adjective,
> but why feminime?
>
> Worse, "Cantae", contrarily to homo, being plural, it should be:
>
> "Cantae viventes"
>

Living women who have been celebrated in song?

Ed

[Evertjan.]

Or cant'ay?