Bede

[David Amicus]

I think it's well know I like to make up Latin words ;-))). So I've been reading about Anglo-Saxon England. Alfred the Great translated some Latin works into Anglo-Saxon English.

And of course there is Saint Bede the Father of English of History. Maybe the patron saint of historians?

In Latin Bede's name is Beda. I was thinking that as musa becomes museum so maybe beda could become bedeum - a place, room, library for history books?

[Evertjan.]

David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 19 mei 2015 in
alt.language.latin:

Museum is from the Greek "Mouseion"
meaning temple[!] of the "Mousai".

<http://www.theoi.com/Cult/MousaiCult.html>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaeum>

Ptolemaios Philadelphos (309–246 bce),
the son of P. Soter,
founded the perhaps first one in Alexandria.

[btw, his two half-brothers became kings of Macedonia
and were killed during the Gallic [Keltic] invasion
[under Brennos and Bolgios],
that was later halted at Thermopulai.]

The notion that this is a Latin method is wrong.
So while making up words in Latin is doubtfull,
using Greek style conversion for that is slightly worse.

Please don't stop trying to make up words, Davidvs,
I like to make up by protesting against it.

"Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polutropon, hos mala polla, .."
<https://youtu.be/MOvVWiDsPWQ>

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Ed Cryer]

As I sail on the ocean of life
I find it's all trouble and strife.
But I will be a poet
And let everyone know it
Then return to my kingdom and wife.

Ed

[Evertjan.]

"Evertjan." <exxjxw.h...@inter.nl.net> wrote on 19 mei 2015 in
alt.language.latin:

> "Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polutropon, hos mala polla, .."
> <https://youtu.be/MOvVWiDsPWQ>

The late Christopher Hitchens: "Homer's Odyssey"
<https://youtu.be/81VsexDVCzo>

[Ed Cryer]

Evertjan. wrote:
> "Evertjan." <exxjxw.h...@inter.nl.net> wrote on 19 mei 2015 in
> alt.language.latin:
>
>> "Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, polutropon, hos mala polla, .."
>> <https://youtu.be/MOvVWiDsPWQ>
>
> The late Christopher Hitchens: "Homer's Odyssey"
> <https://youtu.be/81VsexDVCzo>
>

Wow!! That is quite something! I got hooked early on and watched the
whole of it.
I don't usually expect such in-depth analysis from the USA, but I got it
there.
I did Homeric Studies in my final year at university when I was 21, but
I swear I've never heard Oxford dons bring Homer so alive and pertinent.
And it even contains a spirited defence of "Why study Classics?"

A tutor of mine said that the Iliad was written by a man, but the
Odyssey was written by a woman. It's the complete difference of focus
between the two. The former praises warfare and the manly virtues; the
latter parades domestic and civic virtues before us.
I argued that Homer could have written the Iliad when he was young; and
the Odyssey when he was old (er).

Have you any more great tributes to USA intellectual life? I could do
with a holiday, and I've never been over the Pond.

Ed

[Evertjan.]

Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 19 mei 2015 in

Google may be your friend, Youtube is sometimes even more.

Christopher Hitchens was a Briton
and was living as a foreigner in the US, I believe.

Classics in the end is more a European thing.

And yes, The prof's pronounciation was good, the accent was
just a trifle. I could have done without the gong.

Silly phonecall that the Modern Greek pronunciation
would be better, Homeric pronunciation is even different
from Classic and Koineh Greek.

> and I've never been over the Pond.

Go to Canada, and stay with Kilo and Celcius.

[David Amicus]

Latin is not a dead language. I think there is some committee in Rome that comes up with new vocabulary for things that Cicero could never have imagined!

+++++++++++++++++++++==


A shrine to Caesar is Caseareum. I don't see why any name could not be converted into a Latin form and then made over into word for a shrine.

[Will Parsons]

On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 9:14 PM UTC, David Amicus wrote:

> Latin is not a dead language. I think there is some committee in
> Rome that comes up with new vocabulary for things that Cicero could
> never have imagined!

> A shrine to Caesar is Caseareum. I don't see why any name could not
> be converted into a Latin form and then made over into word for a
> shrine.

I assume you are responding to a post from Evertjan (please, learn to
quote context!).

But, you are quite correct.

--
Will

[Evertjan.]

Will Parsons <va...@nodomain.invalid> wrote on 20 mei 2015 in
alt.language.latin:

Well, ... if that is what was ment,
I can see why a name could not,
and more to the point why this name cannot:

>> A shrine to Caesar is Caseareum.

Perhaps "Caesareum", not "Caseareum".

The latter reminds me of <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casuariiformes>

;-)

[Ed Cryer]

I was impressed by the high standard of debate amongst those American
academics; and they didn't pull punches or soften blows for the great
American public. I doubt we could hold a wide TV audience in the UK for
two hours with culture like that. A few of the phone-in questions were a
little philistine, but they handled them very smartly.

I raise my hat to USA Academia. Gaudeamus igitur ......

Ed

[John W Kennedy]

Wasn't there someone hanging around a few years ago calling himself
"Agamemnon" who kept insisting that classical Greek was pronounced
exactly like present-day Demotic, that, e.g., Homer pronounced beta
like English "v"?

--
John W Kennedy
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and
Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes.
The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being
corrected."
-- G. K. Chesterton

[Evertjan.]

John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote on 20 mei 2015 in
alt.language.latin:

> Wasn't there someone hanging around a few years ago calling himself
> "Agamemnon" who kept insisting that classical Greek was pronounced
> exactly like present-day Demotic, that, e.g., Homer pronounced beta
> like English "v"?

And that the ancient Greek sheep said "vie, vie", not "beh, beh"?

<http://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/pegasus/files/2013/06/40-1997.pdf>
page 12.

[John W Kennedy]

On 2015-05-20 16:01:34 +0000, Evertjan. said:

> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote on 20 mei 2015 in
> alt.language.latin:
>
>> Wasn't there someone hanging around a few years ago calling himself
>> "Agamemnon" who kept insisting that classical Greek was pronounced
>> exactly like present-day Demotic, that, e.g., Homer pronounced beta
>> like English "v"?
>
> And that the ancient Greek sheep said "vie, vie", not "beh, beh"?
>
> <http://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/pegasus/files/2013/06/40-1997.pdf>
> page 12.

Interesting remark, "How many British actors would pronounce the full
ten syllables of Shakespeare's iambic pentameter 'They have proclaimed
their malefactions'?" I don't know about British actors, but I'm a Yank
amateur, and I would do it at sight.

--
John W Kennedy
If Bill Gates believes in "intelligent design", why can't he apply it
to Windows?

[Will Parsons]

On Thursday, 21 May 2015 2:51 PM UTC, John W Kennedy wrote:
> On 2015-05-20 16:01:34 +0000, Evertjan. said:
>
>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote on 20 mei 2015 in
>> alt.language.latin:
>>
>>> Wasn't there someone hanging around a few years ago calling himself
>>> "Agamemnon" who kept insisting that classical Greek was pronounced
>>> exactly like present-day Demotic, that, e.g., Homer pronounced beta
>>> like English "v"?
>>
>> And that the ancient Greek sheep said "vie, vie", not "beh, beh"?
>>
>> <http://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/pegasus/files/2013/06/40-1997.pdf>
>> page 12.
>
> Interesting remark, "How many British actors would pronounce the full
> ten syllables of Shakespeare's iambic pentameter 'They have proclaimed
> their malefactions'?" I don't know about British actors, but I'm a Yank
> amateur, and I would do it at sight.

How would you do it? It's not completely obvious to me:

They have pro-claim-ed their mal-e-fac-tions.

-or-

They have pro-claim'd their mal-e-fac-ti-ons.

The second one seems to scan better.

--
Will

[John W Kennedy]

The second. Of course, for the sake of modern listeners, I'd tongue it
lightly, but Shakespeare calls for "-ti-on(s)" far too often for it to
be accidental.

--
John W Kennedy
"Give up vows and dogmas, and fixed things, and you may grow like That.
...you may come to think a blow bad, because it hurts, and not because
it humiliates. You may come to think murder wrong, because it is
violent, and not because it is unjust."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Ball and the Cross"

[Will Parsons]

I'm sure you're right.

--
Will

[Weland]

Bede also wrote hymns and poems, works on time and the computus, biblical lore, biblical commentary, letters,Latin grammar and metrics, and so on. So a Bedaeum might be a scholar's library.

[David Amicus]

On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:33:57 AM UTC-7, Weland wrote:
> Bede also wrote hymns and poems, works on time and the computus, biblical lore, biblical commentary, letters,Latin grammar and metrics, and so on. So a Bedaeum might be a scholar's library.

Thank-you! But would it not be Bedeum? Awhile back I posted about what a shrine to Medusa would be. I suggested Medusaeum and someone replied based on Musa / museum that it would be Meduseum.

[David Amicus]

HAPPY SAINT BEDE DAY - 25 May


http://catholicsaints.info/saint-bede-the-venerable/

[Weland]

Re museum and Bedaeum, depends on the period. Mouseion was the original Greek spelling, transliterated of course, appearing in Classical Latin as musaeum, In the Middle Ages, ae was often abbreviated as an e with a tail coming off the lower left: called the e-Caudata. These were later shortened even more by dropping that tail altogether leaving simply an e. In modern English for example, all compounds with Prae are spelled pre: praedictum is now predict, praeservare now preserved, aeditio now edition, paene insula now peninsula, etc. Vernacular words and names received the same treatment: Aethelraed became Ethelred for one well known example. I've used English, but the same process may be illustrated using French or German or even old Norse. So Bedaeum originally most like,y shortened to Bedeum later, like mousaion eventually became museum.

[Will Parsons]

On Monday, 1 Jun 2015, Weland wrote:

> Re museum and Bedaeum, depends on the period. Mouseion was the
> original Greek spelling, transliterated of course, appearing in
> Classical Latin as musaeum,

The usual Latinization of Μουσεῖον/Mouseion was "museum" (although
"musaeum" did also occur).

> In the Middle Ages, ae was often abbreviated as an e with a tail
> coming off the lower left: called the e-Caudata. These were later
> shortened even more by dropping that tail altogether leaving simply
> an e. In modern English for example, all compounds with Prae are
> spelled pre: praedictum is now predict, praeservare now preserved,
> aeditio now edition, paene insula now peninsula, etc.

In the middle ages, there was consideable uncertainty as to spelling,
since "ae" early had come to be pronounced the same as "e".

> Vernacular words and names received the same treatment: Aethelraed
> became Ethelred for one well known example.

This is a rather different situation. Anglo-Saxon "æ" represented a
separate sound from "e", but there was considerable dialectal
diversity within Anglo-Saxon, and in more "modern" spelling practices,
the old "ae" digraph was eliminated (partly as a result of
pronunciaton changes within Enlgish itself.

> I've used English, but the same process may be illustrated using
> French or German or even old Norse. So Bedaeum originally most
> like,y shortened to Bedeum later,

It did? Was there such a word?

> like mousaion eventually became museum.

No, as explained above.

--
Will