Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. - Seneca.

[Hen Hanna]

Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. - Seneca.

( Nothing is more hateful to the sense than too much cunning. )


Google.Trans: Nothing offensive penetration of wisdom too. - Seneca.



acumine nimio === too much cunning (acumen)



[ Nil sapientiae odiosius ] how can I understand this part?

odiosius is the verb and sapientiae is the object?

Thank you. HH

[Ed Cryer]

I think I'd translate that as "Nothing is more odious to wisdom than
excessive cleverness".
As with the Romans, so with modern western democratic man; Nobody likes
a know-it-all; Nobody likes a geek.

Nil (nominative) = nothing
sapientiae (dative) = to wisdom
odiosius (comparative neuter of adjective "odiosus") = more odious
acumine nimio (ablative) = than excessive cleverness.

It could be rephrased with exactly the same meaning;
Nil sapientiae odiosius quam acumen nimium.

Ed

[Evertjan.]

Hen Hanna <henh...@gmail.com> wrote on 22 Aug 2016 in alt.language.latin:

> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. - Seneca.
> ( Nothing is more hateful to the sense than too much cunning. )

Why "to the sense"??

> odiosius is the verb and sapientiae is the object?

No!!!

'nil': nothing [from 'nihil', from 'nihilum', substantivum]
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nil#Latin

'sapientiae': knowledge, wisdom [genitivus of 'sapientia', substantivum]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sapientia#Latin>

odiosius: more hatefull
[comparative neutrum nominativus of 'odiosus', adjectivum,
from 'odi': I hate]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/odiosior#Latin>

'est': is [verbum temporale praesens, suppressed]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sum#Latin>

'acumine': sharpness [ablativus singularis of 'acumen', substantivum]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/acumen#Latin>

'nimio': excessive [ablativus singularis of 'nimius', adjectivum]
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nimius#Latin>

> cunning (acumen)

litterally: 'sharpness'
from acuo [make sharp or pointed, sharpen],
from acus [a needle, a pin]

============

Nil sapientiae odiosius [est] acumine nimio

"Nothing [is] more hatefull than excessive sharpness"



--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Ed Cryer]

Something has occurred to me, something for advanced students of Latin.
"Sapientiae" could be construed as genitive, and "Nil sapientiae" would
mean "No wisdom".

No wisdom is more odious than excessive cleverness.
That makes sense.

The thing to do now is look at the context where Seneca wrote it. The
quotation is given by Edgar Allan Poe at the head of his story The
Purloined Letter (1845); all Google hits are of that.
I can't find it in Seneca. Can anyone? If not then maybe Poe purloined
it; or maybe he rephrased the original, because it does sound like the
sort of thing Seneca loved to give as a maxim.

Ed

[B. T. Raven]

Nihil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. [Petrarcae symbola de Ingenio
in _De remediis utriusque Fortunae_] There is a Googlebooks pdf of this
published in 1605. The quote can be found on epage 64.

eduardus

>
>
>
>
>

[Hen Hanna]

Thanks for all the help.

Everyone thought Poe made it up,
but
some time back (in this very group!),
someone found the original line in Seneca. Amazing! HH

[Evertjan.]

Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 22 Aug 2016 in alt.language.latin:

> Something has occurred to me, something for advanced students of Latin.
> "Sapientiae" could be construed as genitive, and "Nil sapientiae" would
> mean "No wisdom".

As I wrote.

"Nil sapientiae" = "Nothing of wisdom"

Were nil is [a substantivus] nominativus
and sapientiae is genitivus.

[B. T. Raven]

It's amazing that you think Seneca and Petrarch are the same person.

Eduardus

[Ed Cryer]

"Nihil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. Nihil vero philosophanti
molestius quam sophista: ideo invisam Palladi finxere veteres araneam,
cuius subtile opus, аc tenues telae sunt, sed fragiles, nullique usui."

Marvellous. Petrarch, and no mention of Seneca.
This must be where Nietzsche got his term "Spinneweber des Geistes"
from; rather than from the similarity of "Spinne" to "Spinoza". More
likely, though, from both together.

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

These are two threads on this quote from the last twenty years of this NG.

http://tinyurl.com/zazhupl

http://tinyurl.com/hyx7n2p

All the points we've come up with here are dealt with, including
Petrarch and irony. The nearest I can get to your claim is this from
Musica Volitans;
"It's a snippet from Seneca which is cited by Edgar Allan Poe in
his "The Purloined Letter". (I haven't located the exact place in Seneca).

Ed

[B. T. Raven]

Spinoza (Espinosa) is ultimately from Latin 'spinosus,' thorny. Nothing
to do with German 'Spinne' (spider).


“I am utterly amazed, utterly enchanted! I have a precursor, and
what a precursor! I hardly knew Spinoza: that I should have turned to
him just now, was inspired by “instinct.” Not only is his overtendency
like mine—namely to make all knowledge the most powerful affect—but in
five main points of his doctrine I recognize myself; this most unusual
and loneliest thinker is closest to me precisely in these matters: he
denies the freedom of the will, teleology, the moral world-order, the
unegoistic, and evil. Even though the divergencies are admittedly
tremendous, they are due more to the difference in time, culture, and
science. In summa: my lonesomeness, which, as on very high mountains,
often made it hard for me to breathe and make my blood rush out, is now
at least a twosomeness. Strange! Incidentally, I am not at all as well
as I had hoped. Exceptional weather here too! Eternal change of
atmospheric conditions!—that will yet drive me out of Europe! I must
have clear skies for months, else I get nowhere. Already six severe
attacks of two or three days each!! — With affectionate love, Your friend”

Friedrich Nietzsche, found in a postcard to Franz Overbeck in
Sils-Maria dated July 30, 1881.

Do these sentiments agree with those expressed in the context you quote:

Es verdirbt eurem Gewissen alle Unschuld und feine Neutralität, es macht
euch halsstarrig gegen Einwände und rothe Tücher, es verdummt, verthiert
und verstiert, wenn ihr im Kampfe mit Gefahr, Verlästerung,
Verdächtigung, Ausstossung und noch gröberen Folgen der Feindschaft,
zuletzt euch gar als Vertheidiger der Wahrheit auf Erden ausspielen
müsst: – als ob »die Wahrheit« eine so harmlose und täppische Person
wäre, dass sie Vertheidiger nöthig hätte! und gerade euch, ihr Ritter
von der traurigsten Gestalt, meine Herren Eckensteher und Spinneweber
des Geistes! Zuletzt wisst ihr gut genug, dass nichts daran liegen darf,
ob gerade ihr Recht behaltet, ebenfalls dass bisher noch kein Philosoph
Recht behalten hat, und dass eine preiswürdigere Wahrhaftigkeit in jedem
kleinen Fragezeichen liegen dürfte, welches ihr hinter eure Leibworte
und Lieblingslehren (und gelegentlich hinter euch selbst) setzt, als in
allen feierlichen Gebärden und Trümpfen vor Anklägern und Gerichtshöfen!
Geht lieber bei Seite! Flieht in's Verborgene! Und habt eure Maske und
Feinheit, dass man euch verwechsele! Oder ein Wenig fürchte! Und
vergesst mir den Garten nicht, den Garten mit goldenem Gitterwerk! Und
habt Menschen um euch, die wie ein Garten sind, – oder wie Musik über
Wassern, zur Zeit des Abends, wo der Tag schon zur Erinnerung wird: –
wählt die gute Einsamkeit, die freie muthwillige leichte Einsamkeit,
welche euch auch ein Recht giebt, selbst in irgend einem Sinne noch gut
zu bleiben! Wie giftig, wie listig, wie schlecht macht jeder lange
Krieg, der sich nicht mit offener Gewalt führen lässt! Wie persönlich
macht eine lange Furcht, ein langes Augenmerk auf Feinde, auf mögliche
Feinde! Diese Ausgestossenen der Gesellschaft, diese Lang-Verfolgten,
Schlimm-Gehetzten, – auch die Zwangs-Einsiedler, die Spinoza's oder
Giordano Bruno's – werden zuletzt immer, und sei es unter der
geistigsten Maskerade, und vielleicht ohne dass sie selbst es wissen, zu
raffinirten Rachsüchtigen und Giftmischern (man grabe doch einmal den
Grund der Ethik und Theologie Spinoza's auf!) – gar nicht zu reden von
der Tölpelei der moralischen Entrüstung, welche an einem Philosophen das
unfehlbare Zeichen dafür ist, dass ihm der philosophische Humor davon
lief. Das Martyrium des Philosophen, seine »Aufopferung für die
Wahrheit« zwingt an's Licht heraus, was vom Agitator und vom
Schauspieler in ihm steckte; und gesetzt, dass man ihm nur mit einer
artistischen Neugierde bisher zugeschaut hat, so kann in Bezug auf
manchen Philosophen der gefährliche Wunsch freilich begreiflich sein,
ihn auch einmal in seiner Entartung zu sehn (entartet zum »Märtyrer«,
zum Bühnen- und Tribünen-Schreihals).

So Nietzsche lost his sanity at the same age as Spinoza died: 44. Both
in the winter. Coincidence? Yes.

Eduardus

[Ed Cryer]

I would have liked to hear Nietzsche tell me what Mulholland Drive is
all about.
Something tells me that David Lynch fits the bill for this little maxim.

Ed

[Hen Hanna]

>
> I would have liked to hear Nietzsche tell me what Mulholland Drive is
> all about.
> Something tells me that David Lynch fits the bill for this little maxim.
>
> Ed

When I was watching it, at some point I heard a "click" sound
-- a switch got turned off in my head

a switch labeled
[ This is a great noir movie and I have to
try and figure it out ]

_______________

> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. - Seneca.
>
> ( Nothing is more hateful to the sense than too much cunning. )

I guess there's no verb in

> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.

which is common in maxims, e.g. [No pain, no gain]
[Better later than never]

but in general prose, verb-less sentences are
much more common in Latin than in English? HH

[Evertjan.]

Hen Hanna <henh...@gmail.com> wrote on 30 Aug 2016 in alt.language.latin:

> I guess there's no verb in
>
>> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.

Why guess, when you can analyze?

> which is common in

.. English ..

> maxims, e.g. [No pain, no gain]
> [Better later than never]

Well, in Latin, the verb esse is only used for emphasis, as the construction
of the sentense with its declensions and conjugations, is much more
flexible.

"Alea Iacta" is both "The die is cast" AND "The cast die",
but please don't suppose the Romans immediately questioned this duplicity in
their minds on hearing that, like most English monogolts do.

"Alea Iacta Est", as attributed by Suetonius to Julius Caesar, would
probably sound bombastic in the ears of Roman boys playing a game of dice in
a Roman allyway, when meaning "it is your turn to throw".

> but in general prose, verb-less sentences are
> much more common in Latin than in English? HH

Please look at each language on its own, Latin is not a deviation of
English, and while English is the main conversation tongue of this NG,
don't presuppose it to be the NG-members prime language.

[Hen Hanna]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 1:46:49 AM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:

> Hen Hanna <...... > wrote on 30 Aug 2016 in alt.language.latin:
>
> > I guess there's no verb in
> >
> >> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.
>
> Why guess, when you can analyze?
>
> > which is common in
>
> .. English ..
>
> > maxims, e.g. [No pain, no gain]
> > [Better later than never]
>
> Well, in Latin, the verb esse is only used for emphasis, as the construction
> of the sentense with its declensions and conjugations, is much more
> flexible.
>

Thank you... that pretty much answers my question.



Which of the following is correct?

1. Nil sapientiae odiosius est quam acumen nimium.

2. Nil sapientiae odiosius quam est acumen nimium.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quam

Is 2 completely incorrect?

________________

related question:

Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.

What are some common ways to rearrange the words
(while retaining the same meaning) ?

HH

[Hen Hanna]

> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio. - Seneca.
>
> ( Nothing is more hateful to the sense than too much cunning. )
>

I guess this means:

( Nothing makes a person's intelligence more odious
than that person's too much cunning. )



Can it also mean this ? ---

( Nothing is more odious to my intelligence

than too much cunning. )

=== I hate a SOB who has too much cunning.

HH

[B. T. Raven]

On 8/31/2016 14:04, Hen Hanna wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 1:46:49 AM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>> Hen Hanna <...... > wrote on 30 Aug 2016 in alt.language.latin:
>>
>>> I guess there's no verb in
>>>
>>>> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.
>>
>> Why guess, when you can analyze?
>>
>>> which is common in
>>
>> .. English ..
>>
>>> maxims, e.g. [No pain, no gain]
>>> [Better later than never]
>>
>> Well, in Latin, the verb esse is only used for emphasis, as the construction
>> of the sentense with its declensions and conjugations, is much more
>> flexible.
>>
>
> Thank you... that pretty much answers my question.

If a form of esse is first in sentence it means 'there is, are' (about
same as 'exstare.' Est in rebus modus.

>
>
>
> Which of the following is correct?
>
> 1. Nil sapientiae odiosius est quam acumen nimium.
>
> 2. Nil sapientiae odiosius quam est acumen nimium.
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quam
>
> Is 2 completely incorrect?

No, the word order is a little strange though.

>
> ________________
>
> related question:
>
> Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine nimio.
>
> What are some common ways to rearrange the words
> (while retaining the same meaning) ?
>
> HH
>

Nihil (Nil)¹ sapientiae² odiosius³ acumine⁴ nimio⁵.
1 3 2 4 5
1 3 2 5 4
3 1 2 4 5
3 1 2 5 4
2 1 3 5 4
2 1 3 4 5
5 4 1 2 3
and maybe others.

Eduardus

[B. T. Raven]

Isn't it time to get the author's name right in the Subject Line?

On 8/31/2016 14:04, Hen Hanna wrote:
>

[B. T. Raven]

Don't stray too far from "Nothing is more disagreeable (hateful, odious)
to wisdom than too much cunning (shrewdness, cleverness).

[Ed Cryer]

In Petrarch's original the next sentence is "Nihil vero philosophanti
molestius quam sophista". (Nothing is more irksome to the true
philosopher than a sophist). That seems to be simply corroborating the
meaning of the former statement, which is as you say.
It's the "all things in moderation", "the golden mean", everything
implied in the Greek word σοφία, Latin sapientia.

Ed

[Hen Hanna]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 1:46:49 AM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>

> Well, in Latin, the verb esse is only used for emphasis, as the construction
> of the sentense with its declensions and conjugations, is much more
> flexible.
>
> "Alea Iacta" is both "The die is cast" AND "The cast die",
> but please don't suppose the Romans immediately questioned this duplicity in
> their minds on hearing that, like most English monogolts do.
>

I was searching for this [monogolts] I see.. monoglot...


Thank you, all, for all the help.

I like the Seneca in the Subj. line.
because
for me, the ultimate question is
What did Poe intend? HH

[B. T. Raven]

Poe intended to attribute the Latin tag to it's real author but he
failed to do that. If he had written "Nil sapientiae odiosius acumine
nimio." -- EAP then that would be good evidence that he was trying to
channel Melania Trump.