WotD: Ostracism

[Johannes Patruus]

http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/true?t:ac=Entry/133172

Patruus

[Evertjan.]

Johannes Patruus wrote on 17 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/true?t:ac=Entry/13
> 3172

from Gr. ostrakon [ = earthen vessel, posherd of same,
shell of mollusk/turtle/egg]
probable diminuative of Gr. ostreon [= oister]
from Gr. osteon [= bone, cf L. os, ossis]

<http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=78030&context=lsj>
<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%84%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%
BF%CE%BD>

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

[Ed Cryer]

Evertjan. wrote:
> Johannes Patruus wrote on 17 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:
>
>> http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/true?t:ac=Entry/13
>> 3172
>
> from Gr. ostrakon [ = earthen vessel, posherd of same,
> shell of mollusk/turtle/egg]
> probable diminuative of Gr. ostreon [= oister]
> from Gr. osteon [= bone, cf L. os, ossis]
>
> <http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=78030&context=lsj>
> <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%84%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%
> BF%CE%BD>
>

In the Agora Museum of Athens (in the reconstructed Stoa of Attalos)
they have lots of old ostrakon shards on display behind glass. But every
one there has the name of Themistokles scratched on it. They were dug up
all together on the slope of the Acropolis; 190 in all, but handwriting
experts have examined them and discovered only 14 different hands.
http://www.agathe.gr/democracy/factional_politics.html

It looks as if ancient Athenian voting was as badly rigged and corrupt
as are some modern African ones.

Ed

[Evertjan.]

Ed Cryer wrote on 17 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> Evertjan. wrote:
>> Johannes Patruus wrote on 17 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:
>>
>>> http://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/true?t:ac=Entry/
>>> 13 3172
>>
>> from Gr. ostrakon [ = earthen vessel, posherd of same,
>> shell of mollusk/turtle/egg]
>> probable diminuative of Gr. ostreon [= oister]
>> from Gr. osteon [= bone, cf L. os, ossis]
>>
>> <http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=78030&context=lsj>
>> <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BD%84%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BA
>> %CE% BF%CE%BD>
>>
>
> In the Agora Museum of Athens (in the reconstructed Stoa of Attalos)
> they have lots of old ostrakon shards on display behind glass. But
> every one there has the name of Themistokles scratched on it. They
> were dug up all together on the slope of the Acropolis; 190 in all,
> but handwriting experts have examined them and discovered only 14
> different hands.
> http://www.agathe.gr/democracy/factional_politics.html
>

I remember having seen them first in 1963, next to the spit peach pits
which also were retrieved from the old well next to the "American" Stoa of
Atalos.

<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AGMA_Ostrakon_Th%C3%A9mistocle_
3.jpg>

> It looks as if ancient Athenian voting was as badly rigged and corrupt
> as are some modern African ones.

The ostraka where used to "ostrasize" Themistokles in 482 bce. He lived in
exile the next 10 years, in Magnesia [= southwestern Thessalia, just noth
of Euboea [modern Evvia]], where King Artaxerxes appointed him governor
of.

So this is NOT about an election, but about the affirmative vote for a
single person: Admiral Themistokles.

[Ed Cryer]

No, no. Ostracism was a free vote, conducted in the Assembly with a
quorum of voters present.


"Every year, the People's Assembly (ekklesia) was asked whether a
vote of ostracism should be held. If there was no clear majority, this
was the end of the matter. But if the people wanted to ostracize a
person, a day was set, typically two months later.
Every voter was given a potsherd (ostrakon) on which he wrote down
the name of a politician he believed to be potentially dangerous. (Or he
asked someone else to do the writing.) If a certain quorum was reached,
the politician who had received most votes was sent away from Athens.

The difference with an ordinary exile is that the man who was ostracized
remained a citizen, had to leave the city for a fixed period of ten
years, did not lose his possessions, and could be recalled - which
happened quite often."
http://www.livius.org/on-oz/ostracism/ostracism.html

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

"Ostracism " was a powerful political tool. But notice the steps towards
it; attempts to stop it being used fastly and freely;
1. One a year.
2. Whether or not there was to be one had first to be voted on and passed.
3. Each voter had to scratch his choice on an ostrakon. But how many
illiterate voters were there who attended Assemblies or could be roped
in to attend them? (Notice our "roped in". It comes from the practice of
trawling the Agora with ropes smeared with red ochre to catch enough to
make up the 6,000 minimum conscientious citizens.)
4.Once an ostracism was under way you could put any name on your "voting
paper". There are surviving ostraka that bear even the name of Pericles
(I mean the great one who moved the treasury from Delos to Athens, and
then used the money to beautify Athens with temples and statues clothed
in gold and ivory.)
http://www.livius.org/a/1/greeks/sherd_pericles_agora_mus.JPG

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

What remains of this practice in modern democracies?
In the UK we have "vote of confidence" in the Commons. We also have
party leadership challenges for individual political parties.
And in modern times we have "trial by media". Start enough gossip in
some tabloid paper, set hordes of photographers on the trail of some
cabinet minister, who dog his steps and shout out things like "When are
you going to resign, minister?", bring it up day after day after day
after day on TV, Facebook, Twitter and the newspapers. Until some
bird-brained idiot throws an egg at the poor victimised person, and he
has to use his fists (God bless John Prescott! One of my heroes.)

Ed

[Poetic Justice]

[1st off Thanks to Evertjan and Ed Cryer for responding to my earlier
post]

This is my past post on a messageboard with photo and article links and
some CC&P articles about Socrates' "prison" and trial in the 'Athenian
Agora'.

And I thought it might be of interest to some. Regards, Walter

Scroll-down and start at Sep 3, 07

www.fodors.com/community/europe/location-of-socrates-prison-cell-athens-greece.cfm
OR
http://tinyurl.com/ana6932

But 1st read this short article;

www.agathe.gr/democracy/sokrates.html

It has photos and a description of where the evidence was found for
'Simon the Cobbler' shop/house and 13 possible hemlock flasks and a
possible statuette of Socrates found in the "Prison" excavations.

[Evertjan.]

Poetic Justice wrote on 19 mei 2013 in alt.language.latin:

> www.agathe.gr/democracy/sokrates.html
>
> It has photos and a description of where the evidence was found for
> 'Simon the Cobbler' shop/house and 13 possible hemlock flasks and a
> possible statuette of Socrates found in the "Prison" excavations.
>

"It has been suggested that by the end of the 5th century, the base had
become separated from the bowl of the cup and had been reused as a door
knocker. The name Simon thus indicates whose house it was, and the
findspot in the roadway is logical."

<http://www.agathe.gr/image?id=Agora:Image:2000.02.1076&w=800&h=600>

There is another obvious explanation, even more poetic, Justice:

This artifact must be one of the earliest examples of a compact disk,
the blue shining grooves are typical. I suppose Plato's records of his
conversations with Socrates were sold in Simon Cobbler's shop.

He also sold the software needed for the player:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobbler_(software)>

And a choice of matched earphones:

<http://www.agathe.gr/image?id=Agora%3AImage%3A2008.20.0033>

The hemlock cup's were part of S. the Cobbler's cult skena.

<http://books.google.nl/books?id=mVbu01I37kUC&lpg=PA148
&ots=BE5lCUqLbZ&dq=simon%20the%20cobbler%20hemlock&hl=nl&pg=PA148
#v=onepage&q=%22simon%20the%20cobbler%22&f=true>

[Poetic Justice]

>"It has been suggested that by the end of
>the 5th century, the base had become
>separated from the bowl of the cup and
>had been reused as a door knocker. The
>name Simon thus indicates whose house
>it was, and the findspot in the roadway is
>logical."
><http://www.agathe.gr/image?id=Agora:I

>age:2000.02.1076&w=800&h=600>

Evertjan wrote;

>There is another obvious explanation,
>even more poetic, Justice:

>This artifact must be one of the earliest
>examples of a compact disk, the blue
>shining grooves are typical. I suppose
>Plato's records of his conversations with
>Socrates were sold in Simon Cobbler's
>shop.

>He also sold the software needed for the
>player:

Actually you are 100% correct, the "cup" theory was recently discarded
after they found and a piece of evidence that confirmed it was in fact
an ancient CD.

The 'Great Drain' ran in front of Simon's shop/house so this item was
water-powered but that technology gave us today this indispensable item
for CD's.

http://tinyurl.com/lhz3hmu

Regards, Walter:-)