Felix Puer / Puer Felix

[David Amicus]

I'm trying to determine if word order determines meaning or context.

"Felix puer" means "happy boy"

But what if the boy's name were Felix? Would then "Puer Felix" mean "Boy Felix"?

Could "Puer felix" mean "happy boy" and "Felix puer" mean a boy named Felix?

[Ed Cryer]

I can't rule on this with much certainty. I suspect that the old Romans
would have used word order to distinguish things like that. After all
modern Romance languages do.
Both French and Spanish;
Un grand homme = a great man
Un homme grand = a tall man;
Mon ancienne école = my old (former) school
Mon école ancienne = my old (ancient) school;
Mi viejo amigo = my longtime friend
Mi amigo viejo = my elderly friend.

However, I can't recall seeing such in classical Latin. And the grammars
only mention things like this on the subject of word order;
Habetne agricola rosam? “Does the farmer have a rose?”
Agricolane habet rosam? “Is it a/the farmer that has the rose?”
Rosamne habet agricola? “Is it a rose that the farmer has?”

Vergil calls Aeneas' son "puer Ascanius" usually; but he also uses
"Ascanius puer". Both fit the metre.

Ed

[David Amicus]

Thank-you

[B. T. Raven]

From what I have read, variations in word order usually signal some
kind of emphasis or even poetic effect. Septem pueri, magnus puer, and
some other arithmetic, geometric qualifiers normally precede the noun
and all others normally follow. Even things like Ascanius puer might
mean something slightly different in reverse order. But there the words
are in apposition rather than modifiers. The least emphatic position of
the verb is at the end of the clause or sentence.
Even Latinists as learned as St. Jerome felt that there was some great
mystery behind word order.

Eduardus

p.s. isn't the first syllable heavy in Ascănĭus pŭĕr but light in the
reverse order?

[Ed Cryer]

B. T. Raven wrote:

> p.s. isn't the first syllable heavy in Ascănĭus pŭĕr but light in the
> reverse order?

Yes, but Vergil always puts a long syllable in front of "puer" when it
comes first in order.
At puer Ascanius
quid puer Ascanius?
me puer Ascanius
hoc puer Ascanius

Ed