How might one translate this into Latin...?

[The Revd]

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

Does this sound right? "Illuc vadam, nisi Dei gratia"?

[Ed Cryer]

The Revd wrote:
> "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
>
> Does this sound right? "Illuc vadam, nisi Dei gratia"?
>

That sounds ok to me; at least by the lights of Vulgate Latin.

In terms of classical Latin, "nisi" was a conjunction rather than a
preposition. But I guess that even in this context there's a tacitly
assumed missing verb; something like "dabitur".
Nisi dabitur Dei gratia.
Or, using a preposition, sine Dei gratia.


Stylists of classical Latin prefer expressions redolent with literary
references; maybe this;
Illuc et ego, absente Dei gratia.
But early Christians poured virulence on all Roman things; not least its
literary heritage. And they preferred a type of Latin more similar to
the Koine Greek that was the mother-tongue of many of them.

Ed

[Johannes Patruus]

On 11/05/2013 16:46, The Revd wrote:
> "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
>
> Does this sound right? "Illuc vadam, nisi Dei gratia"?

If "go I" means "I would now be going", I would make the verb imperfect
subjunctive ("vaderem"), or if it means "I would have gone", then
pluperfect subjunctive ("vasissem").

Perhaps this paraphrase would work -
"Sic mihi evenisset, Dei gratia deficiente".

. . . though the "Illuc et ego, absente Dei gratia" that Ed has just
posted sounds better.

Patruus

[The Revd]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 18:52:12 +0100, Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk>
wrote:

Many thanks. I've just started rediscovering the elegance of Latin
after an absence of many years.

[The Revd]

Much obliged. I agree that the imperfect or pluperfect subjunctive
would be more appropriate!

[B. T. Raven]

Die Sat May 11 2013 10:46:54 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) The Revd
<pee...@degenerate.Griks> scripsit:

> "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
>
> Does this sound right? "Illuc vadam, nisi Dei gratia"?
>

In the context of the original utterance (by John Bradford in the Tower
of London, seeing criminals being led to execution) the (subjunctive)
"go I" was meant literally. Now it might be:

Mihi Dei gratia absente idem accideret

or Patruus'

[The Revd]

On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:00:46 +0100, Johannes Patruus
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Yes, good! What is the core population of this group?

[Johannes Patruus]

One or two short of a quintet.

Our glory days are long gone!

Patruus