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Anicius???
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David Amicus
Jul 23, 2015, 8:56:56 PM7/23/15
to
Could someone tell me what the meaning of this Roman name might me? ANICIUS
Evertjan.
Jul 24, 2015, 6:22:27 AM7/24/15
to
David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 24 Jul 2015 in
alt.language.latin:
> Could someone tell me what the meaning of this Roman name might me?
> ANICIUS
Any member of the ancient plebean gens Anicia.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anicia_(gens)>
the most ancient known to us was: Quintus Anicius Praenestinus.
He was Tribunus Plebis in 245 bce, according to Stephanus Vinandus Pighius,
[= Steven Wijntgens Pigge [Kampen, Neth. 1520 – Xanten, Ger. 16.10.1604]]
in his "Annales Romanorum".
============
One could construct the idea that they were the decendents of
one "Ancus" ["ankos", "anicius" being pronounced "annikius" in classic Rome]
what could have been an Etruscan name, imho, without any substance,
but for these quarries:
Marcus Vitruvius Pollio [80–70 bce - >15 bce]:
"Sunt vero item lapidicinae complures in finibus Tarquiniensium, quae
dicuntur ***Anicianae***, colore quemadmodum Albanae, quarum officinae
maxime sunt circa lacum Volsiniensem, item praefectura Statonensi."
[But there are also several quarries in the neighbourhood of Tarquinii,
known as the Anician, in colour like those of Alba, of which the workings
are mostly round the lake of Bolsena, and also in the prefecture of
Statonia.]
<http://www.vitruvius.be/boek2h7.htm>
Volsiniensis lacus (Italiane: Lago di Bolsena) est lacus Italiae,
in Regione Latio situm. Integre stat in Viterbiensi provincia,
nempe in parte septentrionali quae Tuscia Alta vocatur.
<https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volsiniensis_lacus>
<https://www.google.nl/maps/@42.554128,11.8457918,10z>
Especially comes to mind:
Ancus Marcius [678 bce - 617 bce].
This Ancus was the legendary fourth Rex Romani,
so the gens could have called itself after him.
<http://www.britannica.com/topic/Ancus-Marcius>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancus_Marcius>
Remember Rex Ancus won the war against the Latini on Mons Aventinus.
<http://monsaventinus.wikia.com/>
[Latini, not the US-latinos nor we self-proclaimed Latinists on this NG]
Titus Livius [abt59 bce - 17 ce], in his Ab urbe condita [I-40],
tells us about his two disinherited sons, the "Anci filii":
Duodequadragesimo ferme anno ex quo regnare coeperat Tarquinius, non apud
regem modo sed apud patres plebemque longe maximo honore Ser. Tullius erat.
Tum Anci filii duo etsi antea semper pro indignissimo habuerant se patrio
regno tutoris fraude pulsos, regnare Romae advenam non modo vicinae sed ne
Italicae quidem stirpis, tum impensius iis indignitas crescere si ne ab
Tarquinio quidem ad se rediret regnum, sed praeceps inde porro ad seruitia
caderet, ut in eadem civitate post centesimum fere annum quam Romulus deo
prognatus deus ipse tenuerit regnum donec in terris fuerit, id seruus serva
natus possideat. cum commune Romani nominis tum praecipue id domus suae
dedecus fore, si Anci regis virili stirpe salua non modo advenis sed seruis
etiam regnum Romae pateret.
<http://www.progettovidio.it/dettaglistampa.asp?id=2826>
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
alt.language.latin:
> Could someone tell me what the meaning of this Roman name might me?
> ANICIUS
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anicia_(gens)>
the most ancient known to us was: Quintus Anicius Praenestinus.
He was Tribunus Plebis in 245 bce, according to Stephanus Vinandus Pighius,
[= Steven Wijntgens Pigge [Kampen, Neth. 1520 – Xanten, Ger. 16.10.1604]]
in his "Annales Romanorum".
============
One could construct the idea that they were the decendents of
one "Ancus" ["ankos", "anicius" being pronounced "annikius" in classic Rome]
what could have been an Etruscan name, imho, without any substance,
but for these quarries:
Marcus Vitruvius Pollio [80–70 bce - >15 bce]:
"Sunt vero item lapidicinae complures in finibus Tarquiniensium, quae
dicuntur ***Anicianae***, colore quemadmodum Albanae, quarum officinae
maxime sunt circa lacum Volsiniensem, item praefectura Statonensi."
[But there are also several quarries in the neighbourhood of Tarquinii,
known as the Anician, in colour like those of Alba, of which the workings
are mostly round the lake of Bolsena, and also in the prefecture of
Statonia.]
<http://www.vitruvius.be/boek2h7.htm>
Volsiniensis lacus (Italiane: Lago di Bolsena) est lacus Italiae,
in Regione Latio situm. Integre stat in Viterbiensi provincia,
nempe in parte septentrionali quae Tuscia Alta vocatur.
<https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volsiniensis_lacus>
<https://www.google.nl/maps/@42.554128,11.8457918,10z>
Especially comes to mind:
Ancus Marcius [678 bce - 617 bce].
This Ancus was the legendary fourth Rex Romani,
so the gens could have called itself after him.
<http://www.britannica.com/topic/Ancus-Marcius>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancus_Marcius>
Remember Rex Ancus won the war against the Latini on Mons Aventinus.
<http://monsaventinus.wikia.com/>
[Latini, not the US-latinos nor we self-proclaimed Latinists on this NG]
Titus Livius [abt59 bce - 17 ce], in his Ab urbe condita [I-40],
tells us about his two disinherited sons, the "Anci filii":
Duodequadragesimo ferme anno ex quo regnare coeperat Tarquinius, non apud
regem modo sed apud patres plebemque longe maximo honore Ser. Tullius erat.
Tum Anci filii duo etsi antea semper pro indignissimo habuerant se patrio
regno tutoris fraude pulsos, regnare Romae advenam non modo vicinae sed ne
Italicae quidem stirpis, tum impensius iis indignitas crescere si ne ab
Tarquinio quidem ad se rediret regnum, sed praeceps inde porro ad seruitia
caderet, ut in eadem civitate post centesimum fere annum quam Romulus deo
prognatus deus ipse tenuerit regnum donec in terris fuerit, id seruus serva
natus possideat. cum commune Romani nominis tum praecipue id domus suae
dedecus fore, si Anci regis virili stirpe salua non modo advenis sed seruis
etiam regnum Romae pateret.
<http://www.progettovidio.it/dettaglistampa.asp?id=2826>
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
David Amicus
Jul 24, 2015, 5:19:42 PM7/24/15
to
Evertjan.
Jul 25, 2015, 4:06:35 AM7/25/15
to
> ANCUS means crooked arm
Not at all certain that Rex Ancus was named from that.
[and even then that this early king was the namegiver of the Anicii,
I was just jumping to an unwaranted and illogical conclusion earlier]
=====================
We only have the word of Rufus Festus [the red partysquatter?] for that.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festus_(historian)>
"Even the derivation of Ancus' name is unclear; the late Roman writer Festus
said it was due to his crooked arm (compare the Latin "ancus" to the English
"angle") but this is not to be believed since even in antiquity, Festus was
regarded with skepticism."
<http://everything2.com/user/Sol+Invictus/writeups/Ancus+Marcius>
Ancus could very well be from an unknown Etruscan word,
or of one of one[!] of the other Italian dead languages.
<http://www.yourguidetoitaly.com/extinct-languages-italy.html>
And then it is the Greek[!!!] word Ankulos that means bent, crooked
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosis>
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%B3%CE%BA%CF%8D%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%
82>
Not at all certain that Rex Ancus was named from that.
[and even then that this early king was the namegiver of the Anicii,
I was just jumping to an unwaranted and illogical conclusion earlier]
=====================
We only have the word of Rufus Festus [the red partysquatter?] for that.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festus_(historian)>
"Even the derivation of Ancus' name is unclear; the late Roman writer Festus
said it was due to his crooked arm (compare the Latin "ancus" to the English
"angle") but this is not to be believed since even in antiquity, Festus was
regarded with skepticism."
<http://everything2.com/user/Sol+Invictus/writeups/Ancus+Marcius>
Ancus could very well be from an unknown Etruscan word,
or of one of one[!] of the other Italian dead languages.
<http://www.yourguidetoitaly.com/extinct-languages-italy.html>
And then it is the Greek[!!!] word Ankulos that means bent, crooked
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosis>
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%B3%CE%BA%CF%8D%CE%BB%CE%BF%CF%
82>
Ed Cryer
Jul 25, 2015, 7:02:17 AM7/25/15
to
"Upon the death of the previous king, Tullus Hostilius, the Roman Senate
appointed an interrex, who in turn called a session of the assembly of
the people who elected the new king.[3]
(This is exactly as Livy wrote;
Mortuo Tullo res, ut institutum iam inde ab initio erat, ad patres
redierat hique interregem nominaverant. Quo comitia habente Ancum
Marcium regem populus creavit; patres fuere auctores. )
Did the kings run for office, like consuls later? Did they have to
canvas before the plebs and explain what they'd do if they were elected?
Did people apply for the job of king?
Ed
Walter Turner
Jul 25, 2015, 9:02:37 AM7/25/15
to
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 12:22:27 PM UTC+2, Evertjan. wrote:
> David Amicus wrote on 24 Jul 2015 in
Why is this "situm" instead of "situs"? Is "lacus" sometimes neuter, or am I failing to understand something? Wikipedia really says "situm."
Volsiniensis lacus....est lacus Italiae, in Regione Latio situm.
Walter Turner
> David Amicus wrote on 24 Jul 2015 in
> alt.language.latin:
>
> > Could someone tell me what the meaning of this Roman name might me?
> > ANICIUS
>
> Any member of the ancient plebean gens Anicia.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anicia_(gens)>
>
> the most ancient known to us was: Quintus Anicius Praenestinus.
> He was Tribunus Plebis in 245 bce, according to Stephanus Vinandus Pighius,
> [= Steven Wijntgens Pigge [Kampen, Neth. 1520 - Xanten, Ger. 16.10.1604]]
>
> > Could someone tell me what the meaning of this Roman name might me?
> > ANICIUS
>
> Any member of the ancient plebean gens Anicia.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anicia_(gens)>
>
> the most ancient known to us was: Quintus Anicius Praenestinus.
> He was Tribunus Plebis in 245 bce, according to Stephanus Vinandus Pighius,
> in his "Annales Romanorum".
>
> ============
>
> One could construct the idea that they were the decendents of
> one "Ancus" ["ankos", "anicius" being pronounced "annikius" in classic Rome]
> what could have been an Etruscan name, imho, without any substance,
> but for these quarries:
>
> Marcus Vitruvius Pollio [80-70 bce - >15 bce]:
>
> ============
>
> One could construct the idea that they were the decendents of
> one "Ancus" ["ankos", "anicius" being pronounced "annikius" in classic Rome]
> what could have been an Etruscan name, imho, without any substance,
> but for these quarries:
>
Volsiniensis lacus....est lacus Italiae, in Regione Latio situm.
Walter Turner
Evertjan.
Jul 25, 2015, 10:42:01 AM7/25/15
to
Walter Turner <wvtu...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
alt.language.latin:
I wrote:
>> Volsiniensis lacus (Italiane: Lago di Bolsena) est lacus Italiae,
>> in Regione Latio situm. [..]
>> <https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volsiniensis_lacus>
[...................]
Please trim to the essense,
bottomposting shows to be just as bad as topposting.
> Why is this "situm" instead of "situs"? Is "lacus" sometimes neuter, or
> am I failing to understand something? Wikipedia really says "situm."
> Volsiniensis lacus....est lacus Italiae, in Regione Latio situm.
lacus, masculinum (genitive lacus); fourth declension
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacus>
<http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%
3Aentry%3Dlacus>
Seems you are right, it being wrong,
so, if no one objects,
you should correct this wiki Latin.
alt.language.latin:
I wrote:
>> Volsiniensis lacus (Italiane: Lago di Bolsena) est lacus Italiae,
>> <https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volsiniensis_lacus>
[...................]
Please trim to the essense,
bottomposting shows to be just as bad as topposting.
> Why is this "situm" instead of "situs"? Is "lacus" sometimes neuter, or
> am I failing to understand something? Wikipedia really says "situm."
> Volsiniensis lacus....est lacus Italiae, in Regione Latio situm.
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lacus>
<http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0060%
3Aentry%3Dlacus>
Seems you are right, it being wrong,
so, if no one objects,
you should correct this wiki Latin.
Evertjan.
Jul 25, 2015, 10:58:32 AM7/25/15
to
Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
alt.language.latin:
> David Amicus wrote:
>> Thank-you.
>>
>> ANCUS means crooked arm
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancus_Marcius
>>
>
> It says "Ancus Marius" on that picture.
And the corresponding Wikimedia
"Ancus Martius"
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ancus-Martius.jpg>
> "Upon the death of the previous king, Tullus Hostilius, the Roman Senate
> appointed an interrex, who in turn called a session of the assembly of
> the people who elected the new king.[3]
> (This is exactly as Livy wrote;
> Mortuo Tullo res, ut institutum iam inde ab initio erat, ad patres
> redierat hique interregem nominaverant. Quo comitia habente Ancum
> Marcium regem populus creavit; patres fuere auctores. )
>
> Did the kings run for office, like consuls later? Did they have to
> canvas before the plebs and explain what they'd do if they were elected?
> Did people apply for the job of king?
Perhaps this Hostilius was really hostile? ;-)
It seems the Romans [later?] were so afraid of the capriciousness of Reges
[and Reguli], that they preferred to install a "dictator", when thing went
realy bad.
Even Cicero wrote "... aut ... aut **etiam** reges" here:
"Quodsi iam sint id, quod summo furore cupiunt, adepti, num illi in cinere
urbis et in sanguine civium, quae mente conscelerata ac nefaria
concupiverunt, consules se aut dictatores aut etiam reges sperant futuros?
Non vident id se cupere, quod si adepti sint, fugitivo alicui aut gladiatori
concedi sit necesse?"
[ORATIO IN L. CATILINAM SECVNDA 5-19]
<http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/cicero/cat2.shtml>
alt.language.latin:
> David Amicus wrote:
>> Thank-you.
>>
>> ANCUS means crooked arm
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancus_Marcius
>>
>
> It says "Ancus Marius" on that picture.
"Ancus Martius"
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ancus-Martius.jpg>
> "Upon the death of the previous king, Tullus Hostilius, the Roman Senate
> appointed an interrex, who in turn called a session of the assembly of
> the people who elected the new king.[3]
> (This is exactly as Livy wrote;
> Mortuo Tullo res, ut institutum iam inde ab initio erat, ad patres
> redierat hique interregem nominaverant. Quo comitia habente Ancum
> Marcium regem populus creavit; patres fuere auctores. )
>
> Did the kings run for office, like consuls later? Did they have to
> canvas before the plebs and explain what they'd do if they were elected?
> Did people apply for the job of king?
It seems the Romans [later?] were so afraid of the capriciousness of Reges
[and Reguli], that they preferred to install a "dictator", when thing went
realy bad.
Even Cicero wrote "... aut ... aut **etiam** reges" here:
"Quodsi iam sint id, quod summo furore cupiunt, adepti, num illi in cinere
urbis et in sanguine civium, quae mente conscelerata ac nefaria
concupiverunt, consules se aut dictatores aut etiam reges sperant futuros?
Non vident id se cupere, quod si adepti sint, fugitivo alicui aut gladiatori
concedi sit necesse?"
[ORATIO IN L. CATILINAM SECVNDA 5-19]
<http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/cicero/cat2.shtml>
Ed Cryer
Jul 25, 2015, 11:56:44 AM7/25/15
to
To the Romans "dictator" was ok; "rex" was odious. It's the other way
round here in the UK, kings and dictators.
I guess it's all to do with the history of the office.
For the Romans a dictator was appointed in times of national emergency;
full powers to get anything done ASAP and bypass all red tape.
One of them (appointed to deal with Hannibal) became immortalised in a
line of Ennius';
Unus homo nobis cunctando restituit rem
(What he did was to avoid all pitched battle and practise guerrilla
tactics).
Julius Caesar was appointed "dictator for life" (dictator in perpetuum),
and accused of wanting to become "rex".
Well, I ask you, what's the difference?
Myself, I'd rather have a king than a dictator. Our Queen Elizabeth
Regina deserves immortal fame in my opinion. She's always performed her
office with utter scrupulousness.
Ed
David Amicus
Jul 25, 2015, 3:54:07 PM7/25/15
to
Evertjan.
Jul 25, 2015, 4:09:41 PM7/25/15
to
David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
alt.language.latin:
> YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
Well,
while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
at least she seems to earn her bread there.
Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
alt.language.latin:
> YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
at least she seems to earn her bread there.
Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
David Amicus
Jul 26, 2015, 1:54:26 AM7/26/15
to
I don't know what that means.
Evertjan.
Jul 26, 2015, 4:21:32 AM7/26/15
to
David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in
alt.language.latin:
> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
>> alt.language.latin:
>>
>> > YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
>>
>> Well,
>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>>
>> Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
<https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-
documents/automaticspellingcorrection>
alt.language.latin:
> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
>> alt.language.latin:
>>
>> > YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
>>
>> Well,
>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>>
>> Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
> "automatic spellingcorrection"?
>
> I don't know what that means.
Google is your friend:
>
> I don't know what that means.
<https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-
documents/automaticspellingcorrection>
Ed Cryer
Jul 26, 2015, 5:14:47 AM7/26/15
to
Evertjan. wrote:
> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in
> alt.language.latin:
>
>> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
>>> alt.language.latin:
>>>
>>>> YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
>>>
>>> Well,
>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>>>
>>> Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
>
>
>> "automatic spellingcorrection"?
>>
>> I don't know what that means.
>
> Google is your friend:
>
> <https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-
> documents/automaticspellingcorrection>
>
>
What gave you "Winsor"?
> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in
> alt.language.latin:
>
>> On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-7, Evertjan. wrote:
>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote on 25 Jul 2015 in
>>> alt.language.latin:
>>>
>>>> YES INDEED! HM Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job.
>>>
>>> Well,
>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>>>
>>> Do you realy use automagic spellingcorrection?
>
>
>> "automatic spellingcorrection"?
>>
>> I don't know what that means.
>
> Google is your friend:
>
> <https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-
> documents/automaticspellingcorrection>
>
>
No spell-checker at all? Or one limited to Hampshire?
Ed
Evertjan.
Jul 26, 2015, 5:57:56 AM7/26/15
to
Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in alt.language.latin:
>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
> What gave you "Winsor"?
> No spell-checker at all? Or one limited to Hampshire?
Suburbian, my dear Watson,
> No spell-checker at all? Or one limited to Hampshire?
or as the Greeks say Perioikinos:
">>>> Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job"
My great-uncle had a gift-shop opposite the castle.
Ed Cryer
Jul 26, 2015, 8:05:51 AM7/26/15
to
Evertjan. wrote:
> Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in alt.language.latin:
>
>>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>> What gave you "Winsor"?
>> No spell-checker at all? Or one limited to Hampshire?
>
> Suburbian, my dear Watson,
> or as the Greeks say Perioikinos:
>
> ">>>> Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job"
>
> She is a Winsor, isn't she?
>
> My great-uncle had a gift-shop opposite the castle.
>
I think you've flipped this time, man!
> Ed Cryer <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote on 26 Jul 2015 in alt.language.latin:
>
>>>> while Winsor is not a suburb of Buckingham,
>>>> at least she seems to earn her bread there.
>> What gave you "Winsor"?
>> No spell-checker at all? Or one limited to Hampshire?
>
> Suburbian, my dear Watson,
> or as the Greeks say Perioikinos:
>
> ">>>> Queen Elizabeth II has and is doing a suburb job"
>
> She is a Winsor, isn't she?
>
> My great-uncle had a gift-shop opposite the castle.
>
Ed
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