REQ greek lyrics to "Never On a Sunday" to Latin
Matthew Montchalin
that Melina Mercouri sang in the hit movie from 1959 (maybe 1961),
"Never On a Sunday?" These must be somewhere, but I haven't been able
to find them where I have looked. FWIW, the song charted all over the
world, with various versions translated into English and German, and
I understand that some movie producers in India went so far as to
plagiarize the tune and supply it with Hindi lyrics even!
How would the lyrics have gone if they were in Classical Greek?
Please, no 8 bit bytes, just transliterate them into English in
whatever way you feel most comfortable with.
Also - and this is a somewhat more ambitious undertaking - how on
earth would the original Greek lyrics have gone if they were written
Classical Latin?
Pierre Renault
> First, can anybody transliterate into English the original Greek
For clarity's sake, do you want a transliteration or a translation?
A transliteration is writing the sound of a word or phrase in one
language in another.
> Please, no 8 bit bytes, just transliterate them into English in
> whatever way you feel most comfortable with.
That's a tall order, isn't it?
For free, I mean.
Pierre
Matthew Montchalin
|> First, can anybody transliterate into English the original Greek
|> lyrics that Melina Mercouri sang in [...] "Never On a Sunday?"
|
|For clarity's sake, do you want a transliteration or a translation?
Id in romanorum literis translatis facere velim, deinde id anglice
facere refers.
|A transliteration is writing the sound of a word or phrase in one
|language in another.
No kidding. (And you'd think the Romans would have forbidden them from
using their alphabet when they conquered them.)
|> Please, no 8 bit bytes, just transliterate them into English in
|> whatever way you feel most comfortable with.
|
|That's a tall order, isn't it?
|
|For free, I mean.
Si modo libere scribere mihi vis. Pote'n?
--
One man's parrot is another man's turkey.
Evertjan.
> No kidding. (And you'd think the Romans would have forbidden them from
> using their alphabet when they conquered them.)
Probably. They thought more highly over Greek than their own urban dialect
of the language of the Latini, but they would object vehemently to any
religious prohibition on Dies Iovis, Kuria.
What I remember is, in my modern Greek to classical Latin translitteration:
=====================
Ta, ta ta, ta ta, ta, qe ena, qe dia, qe tria, qe te sera, qir ia.
=====================
"Qe te sera" with a wink to "que sera, sera".
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Matthew Montchalin
|What I remember is, in my modern Greek to classical Latin translitteration:
|
|=====================
|
|Ta, ta ta, ta ta, ta, qe ena, qe dia, qe tria, qe te sera, qir ia.
|
|=====================
|
|"Qe te sera" with a wink to "que sera, sera".
Say, you don't suppose Connie Francis and Doris Day ever got into
a hair-pulling fight, maybe? And speaking of German singers, where
can I read up on Lale Andersen and Lys Assia, anyway?
mb
Matthew Montchalin wrote in message ...
1. Can do that as soon as you send me the text, or my record player is
fixed, whichever the earlier. All I remember is the title "Pote' thn
kyriake^' ", and where she counts the kids, "e'na kai dy'o kai tri'a kai
te'ssera paidia' ".
2. The part I remember could remain unchanged in Attic around the 3rd Cent.,
except for sliding the stress on the last word to the penultima. The rest of
the lyrics would have gone nowhere in Classical Attic or any other obsolete
dialect because the situation, thoughts and feelings would have been
culturally anachronistic and produced clumsy, empty-sounding elephantesque
blah instead of lyrics. Even late Byzantine -sounding almost alike to
today's- would be off key, due to imperfect knowledge of the right register,
i.e. street language.
3. Written Latin would obviously be much more of a monstrosity. If anybody
had perfect command, let alone secondhand reconstruction, of street Latin it
might have been interesting to try it.
Matthew Montchalin
|Matthew Montchalin wrote in message ...
|>First, can anybody transliterate into English the original Greek lyrics
|>that Melina Mercouri sang in the hit movie from 1959 (maybe 1961),
|>"Never On a Sunday?" These must be somewhere, but I haven't been able
|>to find them where I have looked. FWIW, the song charted all over the
|>world, with various versions translated into English and German, and
|>I understand that some movie producers in India went so far as to
|>plagiarize the tune and supply it with Hindi lyrics even!
|>
|>How would the lyrics have gone if they were in Classical Greek?
|>Please, no 8 bit bytes, just transliterate them into English in
|>whatever way you feel most comfortable with.
|>
|>Also - and this is a somewhat more ambitious undertaking - how on
|>earth would the original Greek lyrics have gone if they were written
|>Classical Latin?
|
|
|1. Can do that as soon as you send me the text,
That is the initial barrier I must surmount, too.
|or my record player is fixed, whichever the earlier.
Hmmmm. I wonder if the vinyl record is very collectable after this many
years?
|All I remember is the title "Pote' thn kyriake^' ", and where she
|counts the kids, "e'na kai dy'o kai tri'a kai te'ssera paidia' ".
That's the best part!
|2. The part I remember could remain unchanged in Attic around the
|3rd Cent., except for sliding the stress on the last word to the
|penultima. The rest of the lyrics would have gone nowhere in Classical
|Attic or any other obsolete dialect because the situation, thoughts
|and feelings would have been culturally anachronistic and produced
|clumsy, empty-sounding elephantesque blah instead of lyrics. Even late
|Byzantine -sounding almost alike to today's- would be off key, due to
|imperfect knowledge of the right register, i.e. street language.
The impossibility of observing the requirements of the music while
being faced with the task of preserving the sense of the lyrics might
explain why the Hindi version apparently rewrote the lyrics altogether,
abandoning the sense?
|3. Written Latin would obviously be much more of a monstrosity.
|If anybody had perfect command, let alone secondhand reconstruction,
|of street Latin it might have been interesting to try it.
Any version in Latin probably departs wildly from the original in
modern Greek.
As for an exchange of songs between ancient peoples, I should think
that it's probably necessary to predicate a traffic in books of sorts,
between temples, as the first essential step in facilitating an exchange
of the holiest of hymns - in order to realize a propagation of "cultum et
cantum," if you will. With that in mind, did the early Romans have
trouble importing holy hymns from other cultures because of the
difficulty they had in translating the lyrics?
I wonder...
Kira Tis Lithis
can be found online at http://hellas.cs.berkeley.edu/hellas/music.html
long with other great old movies' songs ....(sighs thinking .. where did
I hide those old movies I had)
Hope this helps as a start
Valentina
Matthew Montchalin
|For those of you who want to hear the song and try to write it down it
|can be found online at http://hellas.cs.berkeley.edu/hellas/music.html
|long with other great old movies' songs ....(sighs thinking .. where did
|I hide those old movies I had)
|
|Hope this helps as a start
Thanks, I think that should help. :)
mb
> For those of you who want to hear the song and try to write it down it
> can be found online at http://hellas.cs.berkeley.edu/hellas/music.html
> long with other great old movies' songs ....(sighs thinking .. where did
> I hide those old movies I had)
Unfortunately inaccessible. The listing is there but the links are out. Grrr.
Matthew Montchalin
Hmmm. And I have yet to try going there, just as I was about to boot
up a browser, too...
Kira Tis Lithis
http://www.greekmidi.com/songs/hatzidakis/tapediatoupirea.html
It contains the lyrics in Greece along with a midi file of the song.
Hope this one helps.
Valentina
mb
Kira Tis Lithis <biv...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3D47886D...@aol.com>...
Kira Tis Lithis
Valentina
Nigel Greenwood
> I am sorry the link doesn't work. I found this though on
> http://www.greekmidi.com/songs/hatzidakis/tapediatoupirea.html
> It contains the lyrics in Greece along with a midi file of the song.
A pity we can't hear Melina singing it!
The text says:
... den vrisko allo limani
trelli na m' echei kanei
apo ton Peiraia ...
Is that right, or should it be "opos ton Peiraia"? "Apo" doesn't
quite seem to make sense.
Nigel
Johannes Patruus
"Nigel Greenwood" <ni...@elgin.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f855f848.02080...@posting.google.com...
> The text says:
>
> ... den vrisko allo limani
> trelli na m' echei kanei
> apo ton Peiraia ...
>
> Is that right, or should it be "opos ton Peiraia"? "Apo" doesn't
> quite seem to make sense.
>
> Nigel
By googling the phrase "den vrisko allo limani", I've found what appears to
be the complete lyric in transliteration, as originally requested by
Matthew:
http://www.alwaysontherun.net/martini.htm#10
J.P.
Nigel Greenwood
> "Nigel Greenwood" <ni...@elgin.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f855f848.02080...@posting.google.com...
> > The text says:
> >
> > ... den vrisko allo limani
> > trelli na m' echei kanei
> > apo ton Peiraia ...
> >
> > Is that right, or should it be "opos ton Peiraia"? "Apo" doesn't
> > quite seem to make sense.
Sorry, it should be "oso ton Peiraia".
> By googling the phrase "den vrisko allo limani", I've found what appears to
> be the complete lyric in transliteration, as originally requested by
> Matthew:
> http://www.alwaysontherun.net/martini.htm#10
Useful -- but it contains quite a few typos. Here are a few
corrections (the transliterations may differ):
Pos tha 'thela na icha ...
Kapoion agnosto na vro ...
...Oso ton Peiraia ...
Nigel
George Durbridge
Matthew Montchalin <mmon...@OregonVOS.net> wrote:
> the lyrics
> to that song make reference to the port town of 'Piraeus,'
wherever
> that is.
The spelling of this name is very variable in modern Greek,
and this is well within the usual range.
Malcolm Martin
> Just as bad as an English speaker of today translating
>"Summertime" into King Alfred's language. How would you say "the
>livin' is easy" in the right register?
.....we suffer to pass our time,
idly and unprofitably .........
(with acknowledgements to Asser)
Best sung slowly, with elongated syllables and a touch of irony in a West
Saxon accent, to an approximation of the tune 'Summertime'
Kind regards
Malcolm Martin
London, UK
Nigel Greenwood
<...>]
> FWIW, the German version to the song is 'Ein Schiff Wird Kommen,'
> probably circulated contemporaneously to the film
Sounds as if it was based on Weill's Pirate song in Brecht's Dreigroschenoper.
Nigel
Language resources (Persian/Turkish/Modern Greek/IPA):
http://www.elgin.free-online.co.uk
Matthew Montchalin
|> probably circulated contemporaneously to the film
Nigel Greenwood wrote:
|Sounds as if it was based on Weill's Pirate song in Brecht's
|Dreigroschenoper.
I will let you be the judge of that. Here is the Lale Andersen
version of 'Ein Schiff Wird Kommen' (interspliced with an english
translation hacked out by yours truly). -God knows where Piraeus
is, it wasn't in my dictionary, and I haven't a map to refer to:
EIN SCHIFF WIRD KOMMEN
Ich bin ein Maedchen von Piraeus
und liebe den Hafen, die Schiffe und das Meer.
Ich lieb' das Lachen der Matrosen
und Kuesse, die schmecken nach Salz und Teer.
I am a girl from Pyrrus
and love the bay, the ships, and the sea.
I love the laughter of the [rosy cheeked] mates,
and their kisses that taste of salt and tar.
Mich lockt der Zauber von Piraeus,
drum stehe ich Abend fuer Abend am Kai.
Und warte auf die fremden Schiffe aus Hongkong,
aus Java, aus Chile und Shanghai.
The magic of Pyrrus sways me,
I stand around evening after evening on the jetty.
And wait for the foreign Ships [to come in] from Hongkong,
from Java, from Chile and Shanghai.
Ein Schiff wird kommen,
und das bringt mir den einen,
den ich so liebe wie keinen,
und der gluecklich macht.
A ship will be coming,
and it's [going to] bring me the one
that I [am to] love so [much] as no other,
and who [in return] will make me happy.
Ein Schiff wird kommen,
und meinen Traum erfuellen,
und meine Sehnsucht stillen,
die Sehnsucht mancher Nacht.
A ship will be coming,
and it will fulfil my [lifelong] dream,
and quench [=silence] my longing,
the longing of many a night.
Ich bin ein Maedchen aus Piraeus,
und wenn eines Tages mein Herz ich mal verlier',
Dann muss es einer sein vom Hafen,
nur so einen Burschen wuensch' ich fuer's Leben mir.
I am a girl from Pyrrus,
and if some day I lose my heart,
then it has got to be one [of the boys] of the bay,
a man that I wish to have for myself [i.e., my own] for life. [???]
Und spaeter stehen meine Kinder
dann Abend fuer Abend genau wie ich am Kai,
und warten auf die fremden Schiffe aus Hongkong,
aus Java, aus Chile und Shanghai.
And later on, my kids will stand there,
evening after evening on the jetty exactly like I did,
and wait for the foreign ships to come in from Hongkong,
from Java, from Chile, and Shanghai.
Edward Casey
"Matthew Montchalin" <mmon...@OregonVOS.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.02081...@lab.oregonvos.net...
> |> FWIW, the German version to the song is 'Ein Schiff Wird Kommen,'
> |> probably circulated contemporaneously to the film
>
> Nigel Greenwood wrote:
> |Sounds as if it was based on Weill's Pirate song in Brecht's
> |Dreigroschenoper.
>
> I will let you be the judge of that. Here is the Lale Andersen
> version of 'Ein Schiff Wird Kommen' (interspliced with an english
> translation hacked out by yours truly). -God knows where Piraeus
> is, it wasn't in my dictionary, and I haven't a map to refer to:
Piraeus is the port of Athens about 10 km. southeast of the city center.
From Google of course.
>
> EIN SCHIFF WIRD KOMMEN
>
> Ich bin ein Maedchen von Piraeus
> und liebe den Hafen, die Schiffe und das Meer.
> Ich lieb' das Lachen der Matrosen
> und Kuesse, die schmecken nach Salz und Teer.
navis veniet
puella sum portus Piraei
quae quem amo et naves et mare
delector hilaribus nautis
osculis sapientibus sale et pice
Eduardus
Edward Casey
"Edward Casey" <ej...@cpinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ulaelu4...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Matthew Montchalin" <mmon...@OregonVOS.net> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.44.02081...@lab.oregonvos.net...
>> -God knows where Piraeus
> > is, it wasn't in my dictionary, and I haven't a map to refer to:
>
> Piraeus is the port of Athens about 10 km. southeast of the city center.
> From Google of course.
>
southwest of Athens
Matthew Montchalin
|>> -God knows where Piraeus
|> > is, it wasn't in my dictionary, and I haven't a map to refer to:
|>
|> Piraeus is the port of Athens about 10 km. southeast of the city center.
|> From Google of course.
|
|southwest of Athens
Thanks for that information. Is it a big port?
mb
> |Sounds as if it was based on Weill's Pirate song in Brecht's
> |Dreigroschenoper.
>
> I will let you be the judge of that. Here is the Lale Andersen
> version of 'Ein Schiff Wird Kommen' (interspliced with an english
> translation hacked out by yours truly). -God knows where Piraeus
> is, it wasn't in my dictionary, and I haven't a map to refer to:
>
> EIN SCHIFF WIRD KOMMEN
>
> Ich bin ein Maedchen von Piraeus
> und liebe den Hafen, die Schiffe und das Meer.
> Ich lieb' das Lachen der Matrosen
> und Kuesse, die schmecken nach Salz und Teer.
>
> I am a girl from Pyrrus
> and love the bay, the ships, and the sea.
> I love the laughter of the [rosy cheeked] mates,
> and their kisses that taste of salt and tar.
etc. etc.
What a perfectly hippopotamesque parody of Piraten-Jenny! One should
never say anything bad about fellow translators - but, well, there are
times one wishes it's the right time to say nil nisi bonum.
Also, many people besides God know where Piraeus is. And why
rosy-cheeked?
Matthew Montchalin
|> EIN SCHIFF WIRD KOMMEN
|>
|> Ich bin ein Maedchen von Piraeus
|> und liebe den Hafen, die Schiffe und das Meer.
|> Ich lieb' das Lachen der Matrosen
|> und Kuesse, die schmecken nach Salz und Teer.
|>
|> I am a girl from Pyrrus
|> and love the bay, the ships, and the sea.
|> I love the laughter of the [rosy cheeked] mates,
|> and their kisses that taste of salt and tar.
|
|etc. etc.
|
|What a perfectly hippopotamesque parody of Piraten-Jenny!
Of what?
|One should never say anything bad about fellow translators - but,
|well, there are times one wishes it's the right time to say nil
|nisi bonum.
Ha, even better than that, it was 'free.'
|Also, many people besides God know where Piraeus is.
Luckily, I have never been exposed to those people who know where
Piraeus is. -Probably the inhabitants of some far off distant land
dangerously near the edge of the earth, I would guess.
|And why rosy-cheeked?
I have a more ribald version of the song, if you'd like, but it is
best for those who really know what it means to take vulgar liberties
with another person's language. Of course, it would not come close
to what you are capable of.
Andy Wright
"Matthew Montchalin" <mmon...@OregonVOS.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.02081...@lab.oregonvos.net...
Matthew Montchalin
|You guys are kidding that you don't know where Piraeus is, right?
How do they keep from falling off the earth if it is on the other
side of the world, and are standing upside down?
George Durbridge
upright, but mere convention that North goes at the top.
Obviously, you are upside down. Which may explain your
attitude about the town at the end of the Long Walls.
Edward Casey
"George Durbridge" <gdur...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:20020812202109.6...@bigpond.net.au...
How about a friendly compromise? The old maps always showed east at the top
of the sheet. So in order to orient a map you faced the rising sun and
turned the map right side up.
Eduardus
Johannes Patruus
> The old maps always showed east at the top
> of the sheet. So in order to orient a map you faced the rising sun and
> turned the map right side up.
At the risk of prolonging this thread both beyond its natural life and even
further beyond its relevance to the original question, may I put in my
fourpennyworth with the recollection of having read somewhere that Arab
cartographers used to put SOUTH at the top. (The very thought makes me feel
queasy!)
There's a brief reference to this on the following page, under "Geography
and Topography", but if I spend any more time on this, I'll never get my
Latin self-assignment done today!
http://muslim-canada.org/ch13hamid.html#geography
Johannes
John Woodgate
wrote (in <ulfm96k...@corp.supernews.com>) about 'REQ greek lyrics
to "Never On a Sunday" to Latin', on Mon, 12 Aug 2002:
>How about a friendly compromise? The old maps always showed east at the top
>of the sheet. So in order to orient a map you faced the rising sun and
>turned the map right side up.
Wouldn't work on Uranus. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!
Matthew Montchalin
Thanks for the info; I didn't know that before!