Novice question: Rosetta Stone "domus nova"
Jan van Mansum
I am learning Latin with the Rosetta Stone program. It teaches me
(through pictures):
domus vetus - (the) old house
domus nova - (the) new house
I am wondering now if I have found an error in the program or that
this is just some irregular form in Latin. Shouldn't it be "domus
novus"? I have done a quick Google search and I can find references to
both, so that isn't very helpful.
Thanks for any help, best regards,
A "novus" in Latin,
Jan van Mansum.
Caligula
> I am wondering now if I have found an error in the program or that
> this is just some irregular form in Latin. Shouldn't it be "domus
> novus"? I have done a quick Google search and I can find references to
> both, so that isn't very helpful.
Domus est un nom du genre féminin et de la 4ème déclinaison.
Domus vetus domus nova
Domum veterem domum novam
Domus veteris domus novae
Domui veteri domui novae
Domo vetere domo nova
Domus veteres domus novae
Domos veteres domos novas
Domorum vel domuum veterum domuum novarum
Domibus veteribus domibus novis
Domibus veteribus. domibus novis.
Jan van Mansum
Merci pour votre reponse. J'ai appris alors que "domus nova" est
correct.
Ed Cryer
"Jan van Mansum" <janvan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177176521.0...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
*********************
Oui.
"Vetus" is an irregular adjective, which has all the masculine forms the
same as the feminine, and the neuter only differ in the accusative case.
Dont ask! Don't ask! Language is language, and once you find some sort
of underlying rule that seems to hold, someone immediately finds a
counter-example.
Ed
Jan van Mansum
> "Jan van Mansum" <janvanman...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1177176521.0...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Thanks! At least now I am sure that I am not learning it all wrong. Of
course, all languages have exceptions and irregularities, except maybe
some artificial ones, such as Ithkuil, which is not really intended to
be used anyway.
Jan van Mansum.
Tomen...@gmail.com
wrote:
And don't forget the irregular "domi veteri, domi novæ"
Tomen...@gmail.com
And don't forget the irregular "domi veteri, domi novæ"
LauLuna
>
> Oui.
>
> "Vetus" is an irregular adjective, which has all the masculine forms the
> same as the feminine, and the neuter only differ in the accusative case.
>
Not quite. 'Vetus' is not irregular. Adjectives of this class (no more
than two different forms for singular nominative) make no difference
between masculine and feminine; they only reproduce the old indo-
european distinction between animate and inanimate; it happens the
same with 'fortis, forte', 'felix'' etc. But the neuter of 'vetus'
differs also in nominative and vocative in the plural; 'vetera'
vs.'veteres'.
Regards
LauLuna
> "Jan van Mansum" <janvanman...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1177176521.0...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not exactly. 'Vetus' is not irregular. Adjectives of this class (no
more than two different forms for singular nominative) make no
difference between masculine and feminine; they only reproduce the old
indo-european distinction between animate and inanimate; it happens
LauLuna
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wouldn't say 'vetus' is irregular; it's just one of the may
adjectives that do not observe the difference masculine/feminine but
the old indo-european difference between animate and inanimate.
Regards
Decimus Canus
> Thanks! At least now I am sure that I am not learning it all wrong.
The fact that you spotted the difficulty, worried about it, and sought
to get it resolved is a good sign. Fourth declension nouns are easily
mistaken for second declension which is why (I think) it's important
to learn the genitive case as well as the nominative of each new noun.
You'll find that most fourth declension nouns are masculine. There is
a small number of feminine ones; domus and manus (hand) are probably
the most common of these. There are also a few neuter ones. These have
the nominative ending in "u", for example cornu (horn) and genu
(knee).
I hope I'm not undermining the program too much. :-)
--
Decimus...
Ed Cryer
"LauLuna" <laurea...@yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:1177489887....@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Regards
******
How distinct is that difference you talk about in IE languages; animate
& inanimate. How does Latin neuter fit in with that?
Ed
LauLuna
> "LauLuna" <laureanol...@yahoo.es> wrote in message
After the masculine/feminine distinction was introduced and the gender
animate split into those two genders, the remnant, i.e. the old
inanimate, was called 'neuter'. The masculine/feminine distinction
developed from the adscription of the theme '-o' mainly to masculine
and '-a' mainly to feminine, like in 'bonus, bona. bonum'. So it is
only natural that adjectives with theme in '-i' (like 'fortis,e') or
in consonant (like 'vetus') make no difference berween masculine and
feminine.
Remember also the existence of Greek adjectives in '-os', '-on'
together with the type '-os', '-a', '-on'.
Regards
Ed Cryer
Regards
*******
That "o" / "a" theme is very noticeable in modern Spanish. In fact I
tend to think of Spanish as the "machismo" language par excellence; and
it just rings with "o"s. If I then said that it's the most beautiful
language I know (and I include French in the assessment) would you think
me a male chauvinist?
Both Spanish and French have no neuter gender.
There's a nice progression here; animate/inanimate >> male/female/neuter
>> male female.
Thinking about it, and thinking about some of the trouble I used to have
learning the gender of some French nouns, I think I'd opt for a change
back to that old animate/inanimate split. And if you tell me that
speakers of old IE had trouble with the distinction (perhaps they had
religious cults who insisted on animism (a bit like the ancient
Greeks)), then I could distinguish things on the organic/inorganic
chemistry basis.
Ed
B. T. Raven
So, are prions m., f., or n.? Or the nacre secreted by an oyster before it
coats the crescent pearl? Lo mas importante es siempre recordar las
excepciones. Isn't "what's most important" neuter?
Eduardus
Will Parsons
example above), but I don't think this should be taken as indicating that
there is a neuter gender in Spanish, since there is no pattern of noun-
adjective agreement that would distinguish neuter from masculine.
It's interesting that while
animate/inanimate => masculine/feminine/neuter => masculine/feminine
is the pattern of all the Romance languages, the Germanic languages
tend to collapse the 3-gender pattern to 2-gender pattern in a different
way, common/neuter. (So e.g., Dutch & Swedish, though German maintains
the three genders, and English has completely eliminated gender.)
- Will
Ed Cryer
"Will Parsons" <oud...@nodomain.invalid> wrote in message
news:59h691F...@mid.individual.net...
That "lo" usage comes pretty close to neuter.
Lo más importante...
Lo que me sorprende..
It's a bit different from "La cosa que me interesa.. " or "La cosa más
importante ...".
Lo de no tener dinero; lo que puedas; fui a lo de Pablo.
I fully accept that we can't rule it grammatically as neuter gender. But
its frequent use in Spanish seems to suggest that native speakers feel
the need for some kind of genderless construct to handle various issues.
Ed
Will Parsons
> Lo más importante...
> Lo que me sorprende..
> It's a bit different from "La cosa que me interesa.. " or "La cosa más
> importante ...".
>
> Lo de no tener dinero; lo que puedas; fui a lo de Pablo.
>
> I fully accept that we can't rule it grammatically as neuter gender. But
> its frequent use in Spanish seems to suggest that native speakers feel
> the need for some kind of genderless construct to handle various issues.
>
probably "el mas importante" would suggest "the most important [man]"
rather than "the most important [thing]" - but this is not gender.
It can be compared to the distinction in English between "he"/"she" & "it".
Clearly, the distinction between these is important, and based on sex, but
not (in my view) gender - because there is no pattern of agreement in
English between nouns that are referred to with "it" and adjective forms.
It's unfortunate that the word "gender" seems to be replacing "sex" where
the latter is more appropriate, blurring the distinction between the two.
- Will
Klaus Scholl
> So, are prions m., f., or n.? Or the nacre secreted by an oyster before
> it coats the crescent pearl? Lo mas importante es siempre recordar las
> excepciones. Isn't "what's most important" neuter?
sophistice dictum. quin adhibemus istam regulam: ubi disputatur, an
quodpiam ens sit neutri generis annon, plane statuemus esse neutri.
-- klaus