ALK: Re: Kapampangan and the Cordillera
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 10:20 PM 1/12/98 -0500, Marc Nepo wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
> Luid ca John, below are my comments on your reaction to Edwin's
post.
> Panupaya mu na mu if I sometimes don't agree with your general
> sentiments, although I feel that your response all the more proves
the
> need for an autonomous Kapampangan region.
>
> Marc
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
> _________________________________
>
>John wrote:
>
>1. in my opinion, the reason for the creation of the autonomous regions of
>the cordillera and mindanao were more of political ends rather than
>addressing the issue of the idigenous people's call for self-determination
>[snip]
>
>Marc writes:
>Though this may be true, we also have to keep in mind that if there is such
>a thing as the "politics of language" then there is also the "politics of
>culture." I think we cannot separate politics from language and culture and
>so what we have here is a "chicken-or-egg" situation.
>
>Edwin wrote:
>a. could a similar arrangement for Kapampangan be the solution to our fond
>desire to preserve Kapampangan culture and end the suppression of
>Kapampangan in schools and media in the region as well as anti-Kapampangan
>discrimination in many workplaces, especially in Clark (which led the
>Pampanga Provincial Board to pass a resolution urging a Kapampangan-first
>policy in the former base)?
>
>John wrote:
>in my opinon, the kapampangan-first policy is discriminatory . . . it was
>a way to favor someone based on association, affinity, race or culture,
>and not according to whatever skills or requirements necessary for
>whatever is to be given .
>
>Marc writes:
>I don't think that the Kapampangan-first is at all discriminatory. I would
>like to think that that the intent of the policy is that, all things being
>equal, Kapampangans should be hired first, for after all, the employer is
>located in the Kapampangan environment. It is the social responsibility of
>the businessman to see to it that his enterprise benefits the community
>that he has chosen for his location. I don't think that the intent of the
>policy is to hire Kapampangans only; the intent is to give Kapampangans
>the chance to compete for the same jobs. As it is at present, with all of
>the skills available in Pampanga, you would think that many of the
>employees at Clark would be Kapampangan. I don't think so. Without even
>assessing the quality of the local pool of talents, they bring in people
>from other regions, particularly Manila, right away.
>
>John writes:
>fourth, lawe cu, it is up to those concerned to do something about it and
>urge the powers that be on the preservation of our culture . . . but i
>think it would be much effective if capampangans themselves organize
>themselves, and advocate for such . . .
>
>Marc writes: That is true that it is up to concerned to do something
>about. And in this case, I think it is being done by Kapampangans
>themselves. The ones advocating an the creation of an autonomous region are
>Kapampangans themselves because they feel that this is one way of
>preserving our culture.
>
>John writes:
>i think my comments also apply to your another question/point which was: It
>may also reduce despoliation of the environment of the K-Region by those
>who have no stake in its future (remember recent plans to dump Metro
>Manila's waste in the area?)
>the only thing that i would add . . . is that it is everybody's stake when
>you talk about the environment . . .
>
>Marc writes: Of course, it is everybody's stake, and by standing up to
>those who would despoil our region, we are showing the rest of the nation
>that they too can stand up to those big corporations whose only pmotive is
>profit.
>
>John writes:
>in advancing our (capampangan) culture, i think we should also watch out
>that we might end up being regionalistic i.e. to be antogonistic to others
>
>Marc writes: I think we are putting the cart before the horse here. I
>agree that there is a chance that we might seem to be antagonistic to
>others, but I don't that we should abandon any of these objectives simply
>because we might end up being antagonistic to others. For one thing, I
>don't think it is our nature to be antagonistic. On the contrary, I think
>it is our willingness to accept other cultures and other ideas that have
>proven to be our downfall, if you can call it that, when it comes to the
>preservation of our culture.
>
>
>John writes:
>b. now on your point re: 'kapampangan region is better prepared' . . .
>as much as i would like to believe so . . . anggang capampangan cu rugu . .
>. in terms of culture and tradition and talking about capampangan as a
>people compared to the people in the cordillera and the moro region . . .
>medyo lawe cu marayu tamu . . . uli na pin queng kasaysayan, itamu masyadu
>tamung me-sacup careng dayu, ania yng kultura tamu mi-apektuan . . . please
>don;t get me wrong . . . i am proud to be a capampangan, in fact, i would
>always stand proud and fight for it . . . but you know . . . i have lived
>with the muslims in tawi-tawi for more than four months a few years ago,
>and i have stayed with the people in the cordillera every now and then . .
>. in fact, i was there (in sagada) after christmas to visit some friends
>and colleagues from way back . . . ania mu . . . all i could say is,
>maracal tamu pang cailangan abalu queng kultura tamu -- unless of course,
>i'm talking as a sole victim here . . . but, they (deng igorot at muslim),
>anggang nanung sabian tamung mas atrasadu la . . . mas rich yng carelang
>kultura that they live with and by up until now . . . and i'm not saying, i
>can and will live the way they do, but all i'm saying is . . . ycatamu
>(capampangan) mismu, cailangan tayang pisopan-sopan at payamanan nung nanu
>pang mitatagan a kulturang capampangan -- emu lenguwahi, and i'm sure we
>have a lot -- in fact, i'm not even sure if i write correct pampango . . .
>hmmm . . . i hope i don't get bashed by all you pipol in the k-list . . .
>thinking aloud mu ba . . .
>
>Marc writes:
>Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, John. Are you saying that because we
>have not been able to preserve our culture in the same manner as the
>Muslims and others have, then it is not worth saving? That what remains of
>it does not deserve to be saved or revived because a lot of it is gone? Who
>decides as to which culture needs to be saved? Is our culture worth less
>because it has been "damaged," to borrow an idea from James Fallows?
>
>
>John wrote:
>anyway, yanapamu siguru edwin . . . medyu mipacaba . . . i hope my thoughts
>and opinions shared a thing or two . . . dacal a salamat.
>
>Marc writes:
>O sige mu naman.
>
> Marc
>
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Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 07:02 PM 1/12/98 +0800, Edwin N. Camaya wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Luid Pol,
>
>On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Paul Kekai Manansala wrote:
>
>> More power to you and Mike, Edwin. Is it possible to organize a
>> referendum on this issue? From what I've been hearing through the
>> grapevine, Kapampangans are becoming more aware of their heritage all
>> the time. If the population votes for autonomy that could set up the
>> framework for negotiations with the government.
>
>Thanks for your heartening words. It is true that there is some kind of
>revival going on, partly in view of the centennial celebrations, for
>Kapampangans certainly played a prominent part in the Revolution, and
>before that because of the change wrought by Pinatubo.
>
>The leap from awareness to action is unfortunately not an easy one: people,
>whose love for Kapampangan may be unquestionable, instinctively recoil
>from the word 'autonomy', equating it with rebellion or secession (and one
>cannot blame them for that), so perhaps we should should use a more
innocuous-
>sounding term. Also, it is difficult to determine how deeply the revival
>has seeped among our people, especially among the older generation.
>
>Our hope would lie with the youth, who are not yet as resigned as their
elders
>and may be more receptive to change. The problem, though, is that the
schools
>and the media, by which we might reach the youth, are not exactly
friendly to
>Kapampangan, so this is an uphill battle. The easiest way would be to have
>sympathetic leaders coming to power in the region, but most politicians
being
>what they are, one would need a large segment of the voters in favor of
this, in
>the first place, so we are back to our vicious circle. On the
Philippine-wide
>level, we might join a campaign for a federal system, but, AFAIK, only two
>presidential candidates have shown interest, and only one has made it a
>campaign issue.
>
>In the meantime, we can only increase awareness in various fora, including
this
>one, meet sympathetic officials and citizens, try to be heard in schools
and the
>media, and so on, in other words act on all fronts. Sometimes, this cause
can
>be a lonely one, so words of encouragement like yours make all the
difference.
>
>Yanamu,
>Edwin
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 08:22 PM 1/13/98 -800, Paul Kekai Manansala wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Luid Kabalen,
>
>More power to you guys in reaching our Kapampangan youth.
>I know that you're in the best position to analyze the current
>situation. Maybe within the lifetime of some of us K-listers we will
>see Kapampangans empowered to preserve their language and
>culture.
>
>Dakal a salamat,
>Pol
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 11:12 AM 1/14/98 -0500, Nepo, Marc & Lou [nee] Tanhueco wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Riddle me this, though, good doctor.
>
>The present democratic set-up in the Philippines was patterned, in
>general, after the U.S.'s, correct? Then, why is it that the U.S. at that
>time did not institute a federalist system. Hindsight is a wonderful
>things, of course, as is the current worldwide cultural awareness, but
>can you think of other reasons?
>
>Marc
>
>On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:41:00 -0500 "9AF/HO (Historian)"
><H...@a6.centaf.af.mil> writes:
>> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>>
>>Yep, friend Marc. The more I discuss this (I just answered a personal
>>note
>>on this from Edwin Camaya) the more I truly believe that
>>re-instituting a
>>federalist system is the way for the RP to go.
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 10:41 AM 1/14/98 -0500, 9AF/HO (Historian) wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Yep, friend Marc. The more I discuss this (I just answered a personal note
>on this from Edwin Camaya) the more I truly believe that re-instituting a
>federalist system is the way for the RP to go. As I noted to him, the
>beauty of it is that it allows for regional (state, provincial, whatever)
>control of local issues such as education, provides a system for local
>taxation to support these things, yet allows a strong central government to
>handle important national issues related to defense, trade, etc. In other
>words, especially in a country with so many diverse cultures and languages,
>it provides for the best of both worlds. Now the questions are (1) are
>there enough honest politicians around to implement it and (2) after Marcos,
>how to convince Juan de la Cruz that a strong central government can work
>without oppressing those it is supposed to serve. Cheers. DLR
> ----------
>From: Kapampangan Language and Culture
>To: KAPAMPANGAN-L
>Subject: Re: Kapampangan and the Cordillera
>Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:05AM
>
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Thanks for pointing this out, Dr. Dave. This is also one of the reasons
>the Basques have been able to hold on to their customs and traditions.
>
>Marc
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:32:00 -0500 "9AF/HO (Historian)"
><H...@a6.centaf.af.mil> writes:
>> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>>
>>Also, the more difficult and distant the terrain, the less
>>control the colonizer is able to exert. This, I think, contributes
>largely to
>>the relative independence of the more distant of the Filipino peoples in
>
>>such places as the Cordelliras and Mindanao.
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 07:48 PM 1/16/98 +0800, Edwin N. Camaya wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Luid kabalen a Andy,
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, JAZPINOY wrote:
>
>> Salabat kung pasibayu .. keting temang iti....
>>
>> Tutu ...balamu masakit tamung iturung gamitan taya ing indung salita ..
>> akakit ku keti mismung K-list mas dakal la reng bisang sumulat king
>> kapampangan.. sabi da uling atin tamung (mapilan... dakal no siguru ring
>> lima???) kayabeng e makaintinding kapamapangan para kanaku... eko rugu
>> mimimwa ne nung ninuman .. nung bisa lang maki ambula dapat lang manigaral
>> king kekatamung salita... ulitan ku ing sianabi ra reng abe tamu dapat
ilang
>> tuki king agus... aliwa ita mu ing pane magparaya... o magpangaya tamu
>> mu.....????
>
>Metung ku karing mangalingwan kaniti (lalu na neng makibat ku murin kareng
>pakapaskil a sulat a king Ingles murin makasulat) anya 'mea culpa' (e ke
>rugu balung ilikas masalese king amanung siswan ining Latin). Ustu ya pin
>- nung kapagnasan tamung gawan yang manimunang amanu king Rehiyon tamu ing
>Kapampangan, pagmulan tamu king kekatamung 'List' at 'newsgroup'. Gewa ra
>ka tamu pamong alimbawa ring Breton ketang aldo a gagamit king sariling
>salita king newsgroup (a.l.k.) uling ila kanu buri rang alilan itang purus
>Frances at Ingles imbes na Breton ing gagamitan da king soc.culture.breton.
>
>Nung e tamu man alisyang mag-Ingles pamisan-misan, e ta ne man sa
>kakalingwang gamitan ing amanu tang siswan.
>
>Edwin
Kapampangan m2n Gateway
< K a p a m p a n g a n >
At 08:35 PM 1/16/98 +0800, Edwin N. Camaya wrote:
> < K a p a m p a n g a n >
>
>Ini na siguru ing tawli kung post tungkul kaniti. KKMP (IMHO), cunectadu ya
>e mu king local autonomy ing makatuki nun e king posibling pamangawang
>centru o cabisera ning Clark, at ing maragul a dagdag king populaciun ning
>ciudad. Nung king kekatamu malyari iting milyari king Norzagaray, atin
>yang added cultural dimension uling mitambunan ya king pamagdagdag king
>populaciun ing amanu at culturang Kapampangan.
>
>Makabaldugan a ing sadyang Sen. Rene Sagisag ing sinulat kaniti uling e ne
>man sadyang sasabi tungkul karing 'Manila imperialists'.
>
>Pakibasa ye mu pu at ikayu nang balang matul nung atin yang cunecsiun king
>kabilyan tamu.
>
>Edwin
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Squatters dumped in Norzagaray
>(Letters to the Editor, Inquirer, Dec. 31, 1997)
>
>On Christmas night, I spoke in the town plaza of Norzagaray, Bulacan where
>in 1994, Manila dumped 2,000 squatters, without giving any financial or
>other forms of support. Now, over the objections of local leaders and
>their constituents, who were never consulted by the imperialists in
>Manila, an additional 32,000 squatters are being relocated there, again
>without any meaningful support.
>
>There are those of us in Kilosbayan who are involved in the struggle over
>the Metro Manila basurahan in San Mateo, Rizal. An emboldened national
>government has assumed more and more control over local matters.
>Unelected and unaccountable officials dictate to local elective officials.
>
>What gives Metro Manila the right to say that it can dump its garbage in
>San Mateo and Carmona, Cavite? (I understand squatters from Metro Manila
>will also be moved to Boso-Boso in Antipolo and Montalban.)
>[snip]
>
>The Constitution and the Local Government Code are meant to encourage and
>promote devolution and autonomy. There is a wide spread between rhetoric
>and performance. It is time to define the interaction between the
>national and local governments. Promdis can decry what seems to be a
>cavalier disregard by the national government of the intent of the laws
>and the Constitution and of common sense and simple justice.
>
>Some 12,00 squatters who earlier moved to Norzagaray live in squalor
>today. Not even able to cope with the earlier transfusion of people, the
>town will now be compelled to absorb many more.
>
>There was no consultation with the municipality, nongovernment and
>people's organizations and other concerned sectors of the community before
>the implementation of the controversial move. Neither the Sangguniang
>Bayan of Norzagaray nor the Sangguniang Panlalawigan of Bulacan gave their
>approval to this. This contravenes the clear mandate of the Local
>Government Code.
>
>Increases in population should be bite-size, or serious indigestion can
>occur and harm the entire body politic concerned. A town of about 65,000
>peple should not have to share scarce resources virtually overnight with
>44,000 new inhabitants.
>[snip]
>
>Rene Sagisag
>chair, Movement of Attorneys for Brotherhood, Integrity and Nationalism,
>Inc. (MABINI)
>Makati