Almensk: The Charge of the Goddess
Don
Lissen po de ordar av de Stor Mor, som i oldentid var osso kalad melan
meniskar Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Afrodite, Keridven, Diana,
Arianrod, Bride, o med monge anan namar.
Ner som helst jer hava behöv av nogot, en gang i monad, o betre det er
ner de mone er full, den jer skal möta i nogon sekret sted o adora de
ande av Mej som er Droning av ala de Hekseriar. Der jer skal möta, jer
som vila lera jer ala magi, men hava ike upnoad dets dijpast sekretar.
Til dennar skal je lera tingar som er uvetad enu. O jer skal vara fri
fron slaveri, o som en teken at jer er virkelig fri, jer skal vara naken
i jers ritar, o jer skal dansa, singa, festa, jöra musikk, o elska, ala
i min ros. Förat min er de ekstase av de ande, o min er osso fröjde po
de jord. Förat min Lov er Elske til ala vesenar. Hold ren din höjast
ideal. Strev altid efter det. Lot ingenting stopa dej eler venda dej
avsides. Förat min er de sekret dör som opena til de Land av Ungdom, o
min er de kopp av de vin av liv, o de Kittel av Keridven, som er de
Helig Kalk av udödlighet. Je er de nodig Gudinne, som giva de gave av
fröjde til de hjerte av Man. Po jord je giva de kenskap av de Eternell
Ande, o bortom död je giva fred o frihet, o jenforening med denar som
hava goad före. O ike demanda je nogot i offer-se at je er de Mor av ala
tingar, o min elske er hellad ut po de jord.
Hör jer de ordar av de Stjerne Gudinne, Hon vem i de stöv av hons fotar
er de armejar av himel, o vems krop omringa de univers.
Je, som er de skönhet av de grön jord, o de vit Mone melan de Stjernar,
o de misterium av de Vatenar, o de önske av de hjerte av Man, kala
tildin sjel: rejs dej up o kom til mej. Förat je er de Sjel av natur som
giva liv til de Univers. Fron mej ala tingar fortsetta, o til mej ala
tingar moste koma tilbaka. O för min ansikt, elskad av Gudar o av
meniskar, din innerst divine selv skal vara höljad i de henföringar av
de uendelig. Lot min diurkning vara inom de hjerte som gleda sej, förat
se: ala aktar av elske o plesjur er min ritualar. O derfor motte der
vara skönhet o stirka, kraft o kompasjon, honor o humilitet, munterhet o
reverens inom dej. O du som tinka at söka mej, vet at din söking o
lengting skal helpa dej ike medmindra du veta de misterium, at om den
som du söka du fina ike inom dej, du skal aldrig fina det utom dej.
Förat se, je hava varad med dej fron de begining, o je er den som er
upnoad vid de ende av önske.
gunananda
der was nur deutsch und englisch kann so wie ich ?
Don
>
> hat da irgendjemand noch nicht verstanden warums da geht ,
> der was nur deutsch und englisch kann so wie ich ?
Sorry. I'll post it in English soon (I have to go, or I'll be late for
work). I also translated it into Esperanto some years ago, and will try
to post that too, if I can find it.
Don
Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, and by many other names.
Whenever ye have need of anything, once in the month, and better it be
when the moon is full, then ye shall assemble in some secret place and
adore the spirit of Me who am Queen of all the Witcheries. There ye
shall assemble, ye who are fain to learn all sorcery, yet have not won
its deepest secrets. To these will I teach things that are yet unknown.
And ye shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that ye be really free,
ye shall be naked in your rites, and ye shall dance, sing, feast, make
music, and love, all in my praise. For mine is the ecstacy of the
spirit, and mine is also joy on earth. For my Law is Love unto all
beings. Keep pure your highest ideal. Strive ever towards it. Let naught
stop you or turn you aside. For mine is the secret door which opens upon
the Land of Youth, and mine is the cup of the wine of life, and the
Cauldren of Cerridwen, which is the Holy Grail of immortality. I am the
gracious Goddess, who gives the gift of joy unto the heart of Man. Upon
earth I give the knowledge of the Spirit Eternal, and beyond death I
give peace and freedom, and reunion with those who have gone before. Nor
do I demand aught in sacrifice, for behold, I am the Mother of all
things, and my love is poured out upon the earth.
Hear ye the words of the Star Goddess, She in the dust of whose feet are
the hosts of heaven, and whose body encircleth the universe.
I who am the beauty of the green earth, and the white Moon amongst the
Stars, and the mystery of the Waters, and the desire of the heart of
Man, call unto thy soul: arise and come unto me. For I am the Soul of
nature who giveth life to the Universe. From me all things proceed, and
unto me, all things must return. And before my face, beloved of Gods
and of men, thine inmost divine self shall be enfolded in the raptures
of the infinite. Let my worship be within the heart that rejoiceth, for
behold: all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals. And therefore let
there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honour and humility,
mirth and reverence within you. And thou who thinkest to seek me, know
that thy seeking and yearning shall avail thee not unless thou know the
mystery, that if that which thou seekest thou findest not within thee,
thou wilt never find it without thee. For behold, I have been with thee
from the beginning, and I am that which is attained at the end of
desire.
Prai Jei
<40B53C6A...@earthREMOVElink.net>:
> Here is the English version:
>
> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
Here is the Hallon version:
Reftim u sult Pesha Nudil, shu valun urat den on mon gora na Artemis,
Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen, Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, mo
nome udil mon.
Ifilesheghim eva majit'omeshoda, uma den em numada, mo nul shavut shim nuvam
varon, evu dushidil em erasha vigalida baroga mo otul ubeleda Ha shu Jeima
ora Sejele. Dil eva navada dushidil, shegu seda tivel riolam ora noshega,
meno mu sim nuvada tajiba vigalida si. U su on ha dioga shegoda mu shamus
nu sim. Mo eva navada valija valun hoima urofa, mo shegus veshamora dos
evem dalai valija, eva ji moshit em ledeva, mo eva ji tomaga, vemasha,
joda, dos navega, mo rufa, ora vul dos shavut u ha. U ha on vadudomat
ubeleda, mo u ha on cui um jolda. Sheghe dos Ros ha on Rufu ora reva. Dos
nul sesha cuor'ev'on udoi bal. Veshada dos orashim evu si. Dos
mushod'udub'eva, ul dos dalam eva vada luot. Vul u ha on vigalida tuval sha
ubim u Romat Juada, mo u ha on gaba sem reva, mo Pusara Cerridwen, shu Sure
Gaba Mu-Tioda. Ha vinora shut seda shaloga, shu dos shevada cui u sholda
Nom. Um jolda ha dos shamus Ubeleda Mu Sedimat, mo piemat tioda ha dos
bioga mo valija, mo li cuima seda shegu piemat pivul. Mo ha mu
ovash'omeshod'ev'uvil na, sheghe dos ha ji Nudil orashoda, mo buora rufa
hon um jolda.
Siol sult shut udol, shu em tavada vuvada non nome valun shofim, mo pute na
dos galgar'olumat amifilu.
Ha shu pivade shalim jolda, mo sheda Nuvam numash'Udol, mo neftile Sodil, mo
tivel sholda Mon on, goru vuar'eva: dos aba mo u ha. Sheghe dos ha on Vuara
modal, shu dos revu amifilu. Valun hon orashoda, mo li u hon orashoda. Mo
pivul voga ha, sha shut mo nom otul, vurat eva shu nuvadem on em loptal
mu-reneda. Dos sulusebu hon em sholda sha dos cui, sheghe dos orashegoda
dos rufa mo bariovon leda ha. Mo se dos pivade mo udalimada, busil mo
nilghe, sumul mo sanapra, sove mo os em eva. Mo eva shu demasha dos vemat
ha, shamus dos vemasha mo tivel evon mu niom omeshoda om eva mu shamus
neftile, dos om mu vemat shegodeva violg'on em evon, eva mushim vemat si
vadeva. Sheghe dos ha ji sedeva valun udolda, mo ha shegodu na shim tivel
odimat.
--
Paul Townsend
I put it down there, and when I went back to it, there it was GONE!
Interchange the alphabetic elements to reply
Don
>
[snip]
>
> Here is the Hallon version:
>
Wow! Very cool--I'm impressed. What sound is represented by the
apostrophe?
I'm thinking of starting a site with the Charge in as many languages,
including conlangs, as possible. So, the rest of you guys better get
translatin'.
Prai Jei
<40B6A5DE...@earthREMOVElink.net>:
No sound - you just run straight through. The apostrophe is optional, it
simply shows where a word has lost a weak final -a before another word that
begins with a vowel. This adjointing (as I call it) is the usual way to
treat such words, though you will notice a few places in the text where the
words have remained distinct, usually at a definite break in the sense
(e.g. mo rufa, ora - "and love, all"), or for emphasis (e.g. hoima urofa,
"chains [of a] slave", my rendering of "slavery").
In shorter, frequent compounds the apostrophe is not needed: seda + eva
("with you") may be contracted to sedeva without comment.
By contrast, something like majitomeshoda would have people scratching their
heads and running to their imaginary dictionaries, to no avail. The
apostrophe indicates that the word is a compound, from majita + omeshoda
("need of anything"). I wrote mushod'udub'eva to indicate a three-part
compound: mushoda + uduba + eva ("naught stop you").
One interesting snippet - the word "moshit" answers to "naked". One of my
colleagues in work is a heavy-metal fan, and he frequently invites us, as a
parting greeting or on a greeting card, to "mosh it up". Apparently that's
heavy-metal jargon for a certain type of bodily movement :) So he was quite
interested in the original piece and my translation, to know what "moshit"
really means.
Hallon began life way back in my childhood, as the language of my imaginary
country. It began as nothing more than a substitution cipher, but over the
years it metamorphosed into a distinct language with its own grammar, quite
unlike English or any other European language. I think the language is now
fully mature, when I can translate something like that piece without having
to invent any new grammatical rules.
A webpage about the language has been written - see
http://www.geocities.com/paulvstownsend/hallon
My newsgroup handle "Prai Jei" is Hallon for "blue eyes".
Don
substitution cipher part--interchange of l and r, substitution on voiced
stops for unvoiced ones and vice-versa, and vowel substitution. Clearly,
though, you've gone far beyond that.
Your "adjointing" is similar to Sanskrit "sandhi," and I think that
might actually be an accurate technical term for it.
--Don
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> Here is the English version:
As you wrote about starting a site devoted to this text in various
languages, I started translating it to Polish but stumbled on a problem:
>
> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
What do you mean by "of old"? Is it "since the old times"? Could you try
to explain it in another way so that I understand it?
--
zbihniew
phone: +48.888.106.477
http://zbihniew.krasl.cz
news://zbihniewnews.zapto.org
Prai Jei
That was more or less it, the original intention was to create a cipher that
*looked like* a foreign language. Only later did it occur to me to try to
*speak* it (which required some rehashing of the alphabet and a
dramatically revised pronunciation system), even later to try to *sing* it.
Eventually it did work, and Low Hallon (aka "peasant" or "landsmål" Hallon)
was born.
What happened next is still obscure, but from somewhere I felt the need to
create a formal, "high" ("riksmål") version of the language. By discarding
a few of the sounds, dropping all the substituted-English grammar, and
regularising the correlatives a la Esperanto (though Hallon has many more
correlatives than Esperanto), I eventually came up with Hallon more or less
in its final form. After that initial creative burst, changes to the
language have been minimal, mostly discovering the "double
correlatives" (shegu = he-who, shegoda = that-which, etc.) and the need for
that mind-boggling pronoun na which has no true English equivalent.
Here is the chorus of a Beatles song in Hallon, singable to the original
tune. (Can you identify it? Note that a final weak -a may be elided in
song, and may optionally be marked à to indicate no elision.)
Ubim jei evà,
Voi shod'eva vija na.
Shegus mu valblevà,
Shegu voi non ha.
Prai Jei
<5db6fa80ec589766...@zbihniew.news>:
> O czasie 2004-05-27 02:55, taki/taka jeden/jedna Don wzią/ęł(a) i
> napisał(a) :
>
>> Here is the English version:
>
> As you wrote about starting a site devoted to this text in various
> languages, I started translating it to Polish but stumbled on a problem:
>
>>
>> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
>> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
>
> What do you mean by "of old"? Is it "since the old times"? Could you try
> to explain it in another way so that I understand it?
That's the line I took in my Hallon version: "valun urat den" = "from the
old times". It can also mean "in the old days" or something like that.
"Rings he would give for it, such as he gave of old." - Tolkien
It is a poetic expression, not in everyday use, deriving its effect by
omission of words. Cf "The New Testament is sitting", the explanation given
to visitors to Westminster late in the 19th century to say why the building
was closed. It meant that the *Committee working on the Revised Version of*
the New Testament, was sitting.
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
>> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
>
>What do you mean by "of old"? Is it "since the old times"? Could you try
>to explain it in another way so that I understand it?
"In ancient days" "in the old days" "long ago" etc.
If there is going to be an archive of this in various conlangs, it
might be nice to see the original English again for those of us as
missed it!
Padraic.
la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> Here is the English version:
Below is the the alpha Polish version. Puntuation and capitalization may
be subject of correction. A few fragments had to be redrawn up a bit in
order to be more idiomatic in Polish.
Unicode (UTF-8)
WEZWANIE BOGINI
Posłuchajcie słów Wielkiej Matki, którą z dawna obdarzano pośród ludzi
również imieniem Artemidy, Astarte, Diony, Meluzyny, Afrodyty,
Kerridwen, Diany, Arianrhod, Bride, a także wieloma innymi mianami.
Zawsze, gdy macie jakąkolwiek potrzebę, raz w miesiącu, najlepiej o
pełni księżyca, wówczas zgromadzicie się w sekretnym miejscu i czcić
będziecie ducha Mnie, która jestem Królową wszelkich Czarów. Tam się
zbierzecie, wy, którzy pragniecie nauczyć się czarostwa, lecz nie
zgłębiliście jego najgłębszych sekretów. Was nauczę rzeczy, które są
jeszcze niepoznane. I będziecie wolni od poddaństwa, a jako znak, że
jesteście prawdziwie wolni, będziecie nadzy podczas swych obrzędów, i
będziecie tańczyć, śpiewać, ucztować, grać i kochać się, wszystko to ku
mojej czci. Gdyż moja jest ekstaza ducha i moja jest radość na ziemi.
Gdyż moim Prawem jest Miłość do wszystkich istot. Utrzymujcie w
czystości wasz najwyższy ideał. Zawsze dążcie do niego. Niech nic nie
powstrzyma was, ani nie zawróci. Gdyż moje są tajemnicze wrota, które
otwierają się na Krainę Młodości, i mój jest kielich wina życia, i
Kocioł Kerridwen, który jest Świętym Gralem nieśmiertelności. Ja jestem
łaskawą Boginią, która obdarza radością serce Człowieka. Ziemi daję
wiedzę Przedwiecznego Ducha, a po śmierci obdarowywuję pokojem i
wolnością, i zjednoczeniem ze wszystkimi, którzy odeszli wcześniej. Nie
wymagam żadnych poświęceń, gdyż ja jestem Matką wszystkich rzeczy i moja
miłość rozlewa się na ziemię.
Usłyszcie słowa Bogini Gwiazd, Jej w pyle, której stopy są gospodarzami
niebos i której ciało okrąża wszechświat.
Jestem pięknem zielonej ziemi, i białego księżyca pośród gwiazd, i
tajemniczością Wód, i pragnieniem ludzkiego serca, wezwaniem dla twojej
duszy: powstań i przyjdź do mnie. Gdyż ja jestem Duszą przyrody, która
daje życie Wszechświatu. Ode mnie wszystkie rzeczy biorą swój początek i
do mnie wszystkie muszą powrócić. I przed moim obliczem, umiłowanym
przez Bogów i ludzi, twoja wewnętrzna boska jaźń zostanie pochwycona w
zachwyty nieskończonego. Niech moja cześć będzie w sercu, które się
raduje, gdyż wszystkie czyny miłości i rozkoszy są mymi rytuałami. I
dlatego niech będzie piękno i siła, siła i współczucie, honor i pokora,
radość i cześć w tobie. A ty, który poszukujesz mnie, wiedz, że twoje
poszukiwanie i pragnienie wesprą ciebie jeśli poznasz misterium, że to
czego szukasz i znajdujesz nie w sobie, tego nie odnajdziesz bez siebie.
Ponieważ ja byłam z tobą od początku i ja jestem tym, co znajduje ten,
którego pragnienie zostaje zaspokojone.
Don
>
> O czasie 2004-05-27 02:55, taki/taka jeden/jedna Don wzią/ęł(a) i
> napisał(a) :
>
> > Here is the English version:
>
> As you wrote about starting a site devoted to this text in various
> languages, I started translating it to Polish but stumbled on a problem:
>
> >
> > Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
> > among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
>
> What do you mean by "of old"? Is it "since the old times"? Could you try
> to explain it in another way so that I understand it?
>
olden days."
--Don
Don
screen? I suspect that it might be the code page, but I don't know where
to change that. I'm using Netscape for my newsgroups, by the way, and
Windows. Thanks.
--Don
Don
>
> On Sat, 29 May 2004 15:38:59 +0200, zbihniew <zbih...@yahoo.no>
> wrote:
>
> >> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
> >> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
> >
> >What do you mean by "of old"? Is it "since the old times"? Could you try
> >to explain it in another way so that I understand it?
>
> "In ancient days" "in the old days" "long ago" etc.
>
> If there is going to be an archive of this in various conlangs, it
> might be nice to see the original English again for those of us as
> missed it!
>
> Padraic.
OK, here is the English version again:
THE CHARGE OF THE GODDESS
Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
Prai Jei
<40B8E5D7...@earthREMOVElink.net>:
> zbihniew wrote:
>>
>> O czasie 2004-05-27 02:55, taki/taka jeden/jedna Don wzią/ęł(a) i
>> napisał(a) :
>>
I got all the Polish characters correct in zbihniew's original post (pity I
can't understand the text, although I can read it :), but they have been
scrambled in Don's reply.
I have configured my browser (Knode under Suse Linux 9.1) to use the UTF8
character set. Temporarily selecting ISO 8859-1 as the character set
reproduces Don's version.
I think the problem lies at your end Don, in that you didn't get the
original correctly, or your browser hacked it to confirm with ISO 8859-1.
Can you try Unicode?
Don
>
> Can you try Unicode?
I guess I will have to research how to do that.
--Don
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> What do I have to do to get the special symbols to show correctly on my
> screen? I suspect that it might be the code page, but I don't know where
> to change that. I'm using Netscape for my newsgroups, by the way, and
> Windows. Thanks.
well... I could advise you only to upgrade to a newer version of Netscape.
Maybe your Netscape supports Unicode in the browser window. Try
http://tinyurl.com/2pxdb to see my message in the Google archive.
I've made a copy from my www<->usenet gate and recoded it so that all
the Polish characters are written in decimal system. It should work on
any browser provided that you have some font with the characters
installed. here's the link:
http://heevla.wz.cz/charge.htm
Steve Cross
news:40B8E6C7...@earthREMOVElink.net:
> THE CHARGE OF THE GODDESS
What does "charge" mean in this context?
Steve Cross
gunananda
> screen? I suspect that it might be the code page, but I don't know where
well , that's utf-8 unicode ; maybe it works if you put in SC Unipad ,
or if you get a newsreader who can read unicode ;
Don
It means that we are charged (asked or commanded) with doing something,
or a set of somethings. In other words, responsibility for doing
something is laid upon us, as in an assignment.
--Don
hs
wrote:
>Here is the English version:
>
>Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also called
>among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
>Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, and by many other names.
>
>Whenever ye have need of anything, once in the month, and better it be
>when the moon is full, then ye shall assemble in some secret place and
>adore the spirit of Me who am Queen of all the Witcheries. There ye
>shall assemble, ye who are fain to learn all sorcery, yet have not won
>its deepest secrets. To these will I teach things that are yet unknown.
>And ye shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that ye be really free,
>ye shall be naked in your rites, and ye shall dance, sing, feast, make
>music, and love, all in my praise. For mine is the ecstacy of the
>spirit, and mine is also joy on earth. For my Law is Love unto all
>beings. Keep pure your highest ideal. Strive ever towards it. Let naught
>stop you or turn you aside. For mine is the secret door which opens upon
>the Land of Youth, and mine is the cup of the wine of life, and the
>Cauldren of Cerridwen, which is the Holy Grail of immortality. I am the
>gracious Goddess, who gives the gift of joy unto the heart of Man. Upon
>earth I give the knowledge of the Spirit Eternal, and beyond death I
>give peace and freedom, and reunion with those who have gone before. Nor
>do I demand aught in sacrifice, for behold, I am the Mother of all
>things, and my love is poured out upon the earth.
>
I am working on the Dêbiua translation. (Phew - piece of work it is!)
Here are the first two sections. Rest coming later.
Khogör by åaâph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uókh påi
thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Bridé, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
Påi dåthió thüopr komüè pli têtèr, mou dythy kythygy abia påi duthri
thrkio kudol, påi dåthüo thüopr kothló by gåphrl påi êèrph irèph tythy
mou by khogréphrå phy thaküi põi thakiu thukri kythy roilph thikri põi
åióph iróph dårdl. Påi tåthüo thüopr kothló by gåphrl, thurpi kóthrè
by khophoã phy åióph dirgó, mråu thurpi åéoth rèith klthuil põi dysyg
èbåbüph dirdè. Py thoépo thakiu khothoãd pôi tysyt, turti åèoth rèik
osaãth kldaé. Mou thüopr kothló by krthåi prå dudåö, mou pèr tètaê
båi thüopr s rlith krthågi, thüopr påi üorph dèigr kothló by kudué,
mou thüopr kothló by khèpéåõ, by kikåu, by rölth khågil, by khythy phy
s iåuph tåtrl, mou by khlgia, dåigó pli aiuph dógrsro. Buè s aiu aårth
påi thokrsr drdöl kythy. Buè s aiuph tåtiué kythy dldiå phiõ åióph
tiotõ. Kékhlu üorph lbåbaph pèr dydy tyty. Åóüth khógrè phåi tyty. Pèl
krmèi khåthrli by khithöo phy thüopr mèl by khåthoé phy thüopr. Buè s
aiu s irèph tètla kythy tutri kóthrè phåi põi dédiê tåthrl, mou s aiu
tèkólå põi tukhiêu põi didoõ kythy, mou põi Kèriduèê tåkólå, tukri
kythy iåaph tèkõlå põi rèiph dèduékhöphoõ. Thakiu kythy öèlph thikri,
thukri khugrå py põi drdöl tutrå phiõ põi thypy tåkrór. Phåi tothrsr
thakiu kuthrå py põi åóüph thaküi dogoå, mou éêokh phrå dödoõ thakiu
kuthrå py drdèru mou py drdåi, mou by èsèiêth gåphrl årlkh phåi thurpi
åièth khophièphråb. Mou rèith y thakiu khothló by khithåa phy têtèr,
buè khèkhua by thakiu kythy põi åióph tysyt thékoå, mou aiuph dldia
uóoth khupèrphåi phåi tothrsr.
--
Hans Straub
The Dêbiua Language: http://home.datacomm.ch/straub/lang
DaLi
news:40B6A5DE...@earthREMOVElink.net...
> I'm thinking of starting a site with the Charge in as many
languages,
> including conlangs, as possible. So, the rest of you guys better
get
> translatin'.
I'm trying to translate the text in Italian and I have some
problems.
> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also
called
> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
> Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, and by many other names.
I have used the Italian version of the names where possible, but I'm
not sure about "Bride": should I translate it or leave it as in the
original text?
By the way, who are "Cerridwen", "Arianrhod" and "Bride"? (Sorry for
my ignorance)
> For mine is the secret door which opens upon
> the Land of Youth, and mine is the cup of the wine of life, and
the
> Cauldren of Cerridwen, which is the Holy Grail of immortality.
I wasn't able to find the word "Cauldren" in my dictionaries. Is it
an ortographic variant of "cauldron" or is it something else?
> Nor
> do I demand aught in sacrifice, for behold, I am the Mother of all
> things, and my love is poured out upon the earth.
[...]
> Let my worship be within the heart that rejoiceth, for
> behold: all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals.
[...]
> For behold, I have been with thee
> from the beginning, and I am that which is attained at the end of
> desire.
I'm not sure about the meaning of "for behold". Can you explain me
in another way?
I'll post the translation as soon as I have this information to
solve these few problems.
P.S. Sorry for the mistakes I could have made with English.
--
DaLi
who is a teenager with an Italian scholastic average knowledge of
English language and who have decided to translate this text just
for personal delight.
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> I have used the Italian version of the names where possible, but I'm
> not sure about "Bride": should I translate it or leave it as in the
> original text?
In my Polish version I wrote just "Bride"
the author could have mentioned also Slavic name of Mokosz [Mokosh]
> By the way, who are "Cerridwen", "Arianrhod" and "Bride"? (Sorry for
> my ignorance)
those are names or seem to be
>>Cauldren of Cerridwen, which is the Holy Grail of immortality.
>
>
> I wasn't able to find the word "Cauldren" in my dictionaries. Is it
> an ortographic variant of "cauldron" or is it something else?
Must be as there is something like "Cauldron of Cerridwen"
> I'm not sure about the meaning of "for behold". Can you explain me
> in another way?
it's like "because, may you see"
IMHO "behold" is reduntant and it's just a rhetoric decoration
Prai Jei
<bBZyc.55238$Wc.17...@twister2.libero.it>:
>> Listen to the words of the Great Mother, who was of old also
> called
>> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite, Cerridwen,
>> Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, and by many other names.
>
> I have used the Italian version of the names where possible, but I'm
> not sure about "Bride": should I translate it or leave it as in the
> original text?
> By the way, who are "Cerridwen", "Arianrhod" and "Bride"? (Sorry for
> my ignorance)
Welsh (or shall we say P-Celtic) goddesses. DO NOT translate the common word
"bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
DaLi
I'm
> > not sure about "Bride": should I translate it or leave it as in
the
> > original text?
>
> In my Polish version I wrote just "Bride"
I'm going to do this way.
> >>Cauldren of Cerridwen, which is the Holy Grail of immortality.
> >
> >
> > I wasn't able to find the word "Cauldren" in my dictionaries. Is
it
> > an ortographic variant of "cauldron" or is it something else?
>
> Must be as there is something like "Cauldron of Cerridwen"
I'm going to translate it "calderone" (Esperanto "kaldrono").
> > I'm not sure about the meaning of "for behold". Can you explain
me
> > in another way?
>
> it's like "because, may you see"
> IMHO "behold" is reduntant and it's just a rhetoric decoration
Ok, now it's all clear and intelligible.
Thanks a lot.
--
DaLi
DaLi
> > called
> >> among men Artemis, Astarte, Dione, Melusine, Aphrodite,
Cerridwen,
> >> Diana, Arianrhod, Bride, and by many other names.
> >
> > I have used the Italian version of the names where possible, but
I'm
> > not sure about "Bride": should I translate it or leave it as in
the
> > original text?
> > By the way, who are "Cerridwen", "Arianrhod" and "Bride"? (Sorry
for
> > my ignorance)
>
> Welsh (or shall we say P-Celtic) goddesses. DO NOT translate the
common word
> "bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
So I'm going to leave it as in the original text.
Steve Cross
news:cai9ug$erk$3...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk:
> Welsh (or shall we say P-Celtic) goddesses. DO NOT translate the
> common word "bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
The name got into many languages as Bridgette, Brigitta, etc. if I'm not
mistaken.
Steve Cross
(partly of Welsh ancestry)
DaLi
> > common word "bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
>
> The name got into many languages as Bridgette, Brigitta, etc. if
I'm not
> mistaken.
So, must I write "Brigitta" or "Bride"?
--
DaLi
Steve Cross
@twister2.libero.it:
Either one you like. Since the original text says Bride, I'd go with that.
Steve Cross
Padraic Brown
of the original. First off, while the New Age overtones are an
outright insult to the adherents of Cravethyck (the native Paganism);
at least the bits like the graal don't have to be explained within the
text. Everyone knows what Anewendunó and la grazeils are. Anyway, you
can see where the Kerno diverges (if much at all) in the literal back
translation following:
Da l' orela li Madrčn Mar, ase llamoes pery omen ny anticouario l'
Artemon, l' Astarton, lâ Dianon, lâ Melusenon, l' Afroditon, lâ
Cerridouennan, l' Argeonrodan, lâ Bregantean e vult nomčn alteor.
En y couant thempeor dow-ays la necesitats, en poz en yenes en y daw
mezmis, al llenefaxčs la luna, colleckez vus llangelment ach
adeoraz-me ame en regió lor cascyn nertičn. Colleckez vus n' acel
logge, eze vus ffeleck prender y ces nertičn, ne dond pass teneze y
rhunnes profund. Do lis ces cistes wersuram me y chos ancasoes.
Elivroes vus bodez: cuomo segna, nuddefazes vus. Nuddegeoauwanceaz;
nuddecantaz; nuddecenaz; e nudderhizoiz pera-z-adeorarme. La mea en l'
ecstasea l' ispiritus; la joiea le munnem. La leys la meva as l' amur
pery chascyn vortow. Puritenez la teva ucheltengčz. Ystrifiz vus
sempeor amar lâ. Que feaos-vis siser nuy rhen. Il meus en il dorus
revelese l' Anewendunó; la meva la grazeils dodae lâ gouitha. Biam me
la Deua la benechčz, dow-docke y ddonnes la joiea lis chordet d' Omčn.
Soer lę munnem, doc me la compruinsičn dal Yspiritus Ammortow;
trantowt la Morantčs, donam me la pas e livertate, reuničn cunny
sengogges. Demandam me la nuy rhen cuomo ouictims; biam me en la Madró
Mar dil Tot; decantam me lę meu amur soer lę munnem enteir.
An intriguing and pretty neat text, I must say! What's its origin and
how is it used?
===
Da l' orela li Madrčn Mar, ase llamoes pery omen ny anticouario l'
Artemon, l' Astarton, lâ Dianon, lâ Melusenon, l' Afroditon, lâ
Cerridouennan, l' Argeonrodan, lâ Bregantean e vult nomčn alteor.
[Give ear(s) to the Mother Great, who-is called by men in ancientry
etc.]
En y couant thempeor dow-ays la necesitats, en poz en yenes en y daw
mezmis, al llenefaxčs la luna, colleckez vus llangelment ach
adeoraz-me ame en regió lor cascyn nertičn.
[In the any times to-you there is need, at once in two half-months, at
the fattening of the moon, gather secretly and worship me, who-am
queen of every Power.]
Colleckez vus n' acel logge, eze vus ffeleck prender y ces nertičn, ne
dond pass teneze y rhunnes profund.
[Forgather ye in that place, who-are happy to learn these Powers,
who-nave not yet (command of) these runes profound.]
Do lis ces cistes wersuram me y chos ancasoes.
[To them I will teach these things unsought.]
Elivroes vus bodez: cuomo segna, nuddefazes vus. Nuddegeoauwanceaz;
nuddecantaz; nuddecenaz; e nudderhizoiz pera-z-adeorarme.
[Manumitted ye are: as a sign, make yourselves naked. Dance naked,
sing naked, feast naked and make love naked to worship me.]
La mea en l' ecstasea l' ispiritus; la joiea le munnem.
[For the mine the ecstasy of the spirit; the joy of the world.]
La leys la meva as l' amur pery chascyn vortow.
[The law of me is the love for each mortal being.]
Puritenez la teva ucheltengčz. Ystrifiz vus sempeor amar lâ.
[Hold pure the your allerhighest virtue. Strive ye always after it.]
Que feaos-vis siser nuy rhen.
[That make ye cease no thing. = that no thing make ye cease/quit]
Il meus en il dorus revelese l' Anewendunó; la meva la grazeils dodae
lâ gouitha.
[For mine the door who-reveals Heaven; mine the graal who-gives life.]
Biam me la Deua la benechčz, dow-docke y ddonnes la joiea lis chordet
d' Omčn.
[I am the Goddess generous, giving ye the gifts of joy to the hearts
of Men.]
Soer lę munnem, doc me la compruinsičn dal Yspiritus Ammortow;
trantowt la Morantčs, donam me la pas e livertate, reuničn cunny
sengogges.
[Over the world, give I understanding of the Spirit Immortal; beyond
the Death, give I the peace and freedom, a reunion with the
ancestors.]
Demandam me la nuy rhen cuomo ouictims; biam me en la Madró Mar dil
Tot; decantam me lę meu amur soer lę munnem enteir.
[Demand I no thing as sacrificial victom; am I for the Mother Great of
the All; pour out I the my love over the world entire.]
===
Cheers,
gunananda
> "bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
it's sufficient strange that you translated "bride" to "novedzino"
(newwife) , but knowing that you are not an esperanto user , I suppose
I have to search the fault on somewhere else .
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>> Welsh (or shall we say P-Celtic) goddesses. DO NOT translate the common word
>> "bride" (Esp "novedzino") in this context.
>
>it's sufficient strange that you translated "bride" to "novedzino"
>(newwife) ,
Why? Is it better than fiancino? I am sure he simply wanted the other
person (the Italian translator, I think) nòt to translate "Bride" with
the Italian for "bride", avoiding a false connection between the two.
DaLi
==========================
L'INGIUNZIONE DELLA DEA
Prestate ascolto alle parole della Grande Madre, che in tempi
antichi fu anche chiamata tra gli uomini Artemide, Astarte, Dione,
Melusina, Afrodite, Cerridwen, Diana, Arianrhod, Brigitta, e con
molti altri nomi.
Ogni qualvolta avrete bisogno di qualcosa, una volta al mese e
specialmente quando la luna è piena, allora vi riunirete in un luogo
segreto e adorerete il Mio spirito, di Me che sono Regina di tutti i
Sortilegi. In quel luogo vi riunirete, voi che siete disposti a
imparare tutta l'arte magica e non avete ancora conquistato i suoi
segreti più reconditi. A questi insegnerò cose che sono ancora
sconosciute. E voi sarete liberi dalla schiavitù, e come segno che
voi siete veramente liberi, sarete nudi durante i vostri riti, e
danzerete, canterete, festeggerete, farete musica, e amerete, tutto
in Mia lode. Perché Mia è l'estasi dello spirito e Mia è anche la
gioia sulla terra. Perché la Mia Legge è l'Amore verso tutti gli
esseri viventi. Mantenete puri i vostri più alti ideali. Perseguite
sempre questo obiettivo. Non lasciate che qualcosa vi fermi o vi
svii. Perché Mia è la porta segreta che si apre sulla Terra della
Gioventù e Mio è il calice del vino della vita e il Calderone di
Cerridwen, che è il Santo Graal dell'immortalità. Io sono la Dea
Benigna, che dà il dono della gioia al cuore dell'Uomo. Sulla terra
Io do la conoscenza dello Spirito Eterno, e oltre la morte Io do
pace e libertà, e il ricongiungimento con coloro che se ne sono
andati in precedenza. Né Io domando alcunché in sacrificio, perché,
vedete, Io sono la Madre di tutte le cose, e il Mio amore è
riversato sulla terra.
Ascoltate le parole della Dea delle Stelle, Lei nella polvere dei
cui piedi stanno le schiere del paradiso, e il cui corpo attornia l'
universo.
Io che sono la bellezza della verde terra, e la bianca Luna tra le
Stelle, e l'arcano delle Acque, e la brama del cuore dell'Uomo,
grido alla tua anima: alzati e vieni a Me. Perché Io sono l'Anima
della natura che dà vita all'Universo. Da Me ogni cosa procede, e a
Me ogni cosa deve ritornare. E al cospetto del Mio volto, caro agli
Dei e agli uomini, il tuo intimo io divino sarà abbracciato
dall'estasi dell'infinito. Sia il Mio culto dentro il cuore che di
gioisce, perché, vedete, ogni atto d'amore e piacere è un Mio
rituale. E dunque ci sia bellezza e forza, potere e compassione,
amore e umiltà, gioia e rispetto dentro di voi. E tu che pensi di
cercarmi, sappi che la tua ricerca la tua brama non ti saranno utili
se non conosci l'arcano, che se non troverai ciò che cerchi dentro
di te non lo troverai mai al di fuori di te. Perché, vedi, sono
stata con te dall'inizio, e sono ciò che si ottiene al termine della
passione.
==========================
I had to rewrite some expressions that were untranslatable in
Italian.
All the words Io (I), Me (me), Mio/Mia (my or mine) have the capital
letter to make the text uniform: they are not necessary and can be
rewrited as io, me, mio/mia.
I'm still undecided about Bride: I put Brigitta in order to make the
text more fluent, but if you want you can leave the original
version.
--
DaLi
Don
"Brigitta" is OK, as it is form of the same name. "Bride," pronounced in
English as "breed," or in Italian as "brid," is a Celtic name, more
often spelt as "Brighid" or "Brigid."
I'll certainly add your translation to our collection.
--Don
DaLi
Thanks a lot.
Allora parli italiano! Come l'hai imparato?
[So you speak Italian! How did you learn it?]
--
DaLi
Don
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Allora parli italiano! Come l'hai imparato?
> [So you speak Italian! How did you learn it?]
>
> --
> DaLi
Io l'ho imparato all'università, molti anni fa.
--Don (moderatore di questi gruppi, ed altri:)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/almensk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exolinguistics
DaLi
mia lingua.
Di dove sei?
--
DaLi
hs
Põi thikri okhlthóph tltaé
*****************************
Khogör by åaãph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uóokh påi
thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Brid, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
Påi dåthió thüopr komüè pli têtèr, mou dythy kythygy abia påi duthri
thrkio kudol, påi dåthüo thü opr kothló by gåphrl påi êèrph irèph
tythy mou by khogréphiõ phy thaküi põi thakiu thukri kythy roilph
thikri põi åióph iróph dårdl. Påi tåthüo thüopr kothló by gåphrl,
thurpi kóthrè by khophoã phy åióph dirgó, mråu thurpi åéoth rèith
klthuil põi dysyg èbåbüph dirdè. Py thoépo thakiu khothoãd pôi tysyt,
turti åèoth rèik osaãth kldaé. Mou thüopr kothló by krthåi prå dudåö,
mou pèr tètaê båi thüopr s rlith krthågi, thüopr påi üorph dèigr
kothló by kudué, mou thüopr kothló by khèpéåõ, by kikåu, by rölth
khågil, by khythy phy s iåuph tåtrl, mou by khlgia, dåigó pli aiuph
dógrsro. Buè s aiu aårth påi thokrsr drdöl kythy. Buè s aiuph tåtiué
kythy dldiå phiõ åióph tiotõ. Kékhlu üorph lbåbaph pèr dydy tyty.
Åóüth khógrè phåi tyty. Pèl krmèi khåthrli by khithöo phy thüopr mèl
by khåthoé phy thüopr. Buè s aiu s irèph tètla kythy tutri kóthrè phåi
põi dédiê tåthrl, mou s aiu tèkólå põi tukhiêu põi didoõ kythy, mou
põi Kèriduèê tåkólå, tukri kythy iåaph tèkõlå põi rèiph dèduékhöphoõ.
Thakiu kythy öèlph thikri, thukri khugrå py põi drdöl tutrå phiõ põi
thypy tåkrór. Phåi tothrsr thakiu kuthrå py põi åóüph thaküi dogoå,
mou éêokh phrå dödoõ thakiu kuthrå py drdèru mou py drdåi, mou by
èsèiêth gåphrl årlkh phåi thurpi åièth khophièphråb. Mou rèith y
thakiu khothló by khithåa phy têtèr, buè kèkhua by thakiu kythy põi
åióph tysyt thékoå, mou aiuph dldia uóoth khupèrphåi phåi tothrsr.
Komör py tutri aèaph thikri kyky, thipri påi põi thupri todrsr põi
tithåa thuprå kythy mou põi thupri tókèr khrpiêphiõ riêkh phio
thrkåså.
Thakiu thukri kythy põi åèêph tothrsr dadui, mou uóokh påi thaèka
éséuph thrkio, mou põi tuèthr dimrè, mou põi põi thåphrl tåkrór dudió,
kukåu phåi üorph trkéö: glpåaphåi mou gopéophåi phiõ thakiu. Buè
thakiu kythy põi råsåph didoõ trkéö tukri khithoõ phy thrkåså. Phuè
thakiu tåitó khophiêphrå, mou phåi thakiu tåitó kèthué by khèpèiêphåi.
Mou iõikh påi aiuph tikõi, liak laé põi thysyk mou põi thysyph üorph
èbåbõph pèr thyky thypy kothló byloith khèphåõ èåõkh påi põi rèiph
didöo daudüa. Põi thakiu okhrtåph dygy kothló by kèdåõ èåõkh på
irkömlph tåkrór, buè kèthua: åióph dliga mou drögl kythy põi thakiu
dèigr. Mou phuè doméo dadui mou dódrõ, dlduil mou årlph dldaé, dodrå
mou dådaé, drdöl mou okrmåph dygy kothló by kèdåõ èåõkh påi thüopr.
Mou thüpor thupri kadüi by khugêi py thakiu, kothoå by s üorph dugêi
mou dèugló rèith küthlad pèl thüpor brå thüpor kothoå py dimrè bõi påi
dupri thüpor rèith gapiê èåõkh påi thüpor py dudri khugêi, thüpor påi
drtèi gapiêd py dydy õåèkh prå thüpor. Buè kèkhua: thakiu kadéob aéokh
påi thüpor phr dothui, mou thakiu kythy phåi thukri thysyph gadéo påi
põi dudió dithöo.
Padraic Brown
>Here is now the complete translation in Dêbiua (phew!).
>
>Põi thikri okhlthóph tltaé
>*****************************
>
>Khogör by åaãph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uóokh påi
>thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
>Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Brid, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
Um. Care to offer an interlinear or better still, a literal
backtranslation? Also, why is it twice as long as the original? There
must be something about the Dêbiua that makes it more long winded? ;)
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> Here is now the complete translation in Dêbiua (phew!).
>
> Põi thikri okhlthóph tltaé
> *****************************
>
> Khogör by åaãph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uóokh påi
> thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
> Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Brid, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
>
could you record it spoken?
hs
<elemtila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:57:45 +0200, hs <h...@datacomm.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>>Põi thikri okhlthóph tltaé
>>*****************************
>>
>>Khogör by åaãph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uóokh påi
>>thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
>>Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Brid, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
>
>Um. Care to offer an interlinear or better still, a literal
>backtranslation? Also, why is it twice as long as the original? There
>must be something about the Dêbiua that makes it more long winded? ;)
>
Hmm, it is not twice as long, is it? I'd say about 20% longer, which
AFAIK is comparable to french or spanish. But it may also be that a
high percentage of expressions are awkward paraphrases because the
language, after all, is still is not so developed...
Here is an extremely detailed analysis of the section above:
põi: of (genitive case).
iri: female. th-k: noun root for gods and celestial bodies.
thikri: goddess.
oló: charged, bound, adjectival root for "should, ought to". kh-th:
make. khothló: make bound, charge. okhlthóph: participe of khothló
(with the ending for noun modifiers). laé: passive root. t-t: thing.
okhlthóph tltaé: obligation, charge, commission.
oér: adjectival root for "ear". kh-g: verb root for "to act". khogör:
listen. (Note the difference in the third section, where the word for
"hear" is komör, built with the the same adjectival root and the verb
root k-m: "to feel".)
by: subordinate clause marker.
åaã: big. éoå: maternal. thékoå: mother goddess. kyky: speak.
uri: which, what. thukri: relative pronoun for nouns of the root th-k.
påi: locative case. roö: old. d-th: time. drthöo: old time.
aårth: also (with the ending for verb modifiers).
éri: named. k-th: to be. -b: past tense. kéthrib: was named.
uóokh: distributed. (with the ending for preposition modifiers).
uóokh påi: among.
thysyph: plural of thyphy (man).
pèr: as, like.
mou: and.
pöa: with (instrumenatl case).
öaåph: many,much (with the ending for noun modifiers).
åioph: other, different. (same ending).
dérdi: plural of dédri (name), which is built on the same root as
"kéthrib", with the noun root d-d ("-ness").
The various names are phonetical transcriptions and show the problems
of Dêbiua's restricted consonant set, especially the missing "n",
which is mimicked with nasalized vowels.
Record of it spoken is coming up - I am getting practice...
--
Hans Straub
http://home.datacomm.ch/straub/lang
Padraic Brown
>>Um. Care to offer an interlinear or better still, a literal
>>backtranslation? Also, why is it twice as long as the original? There
>>must be something about the Dębiua that makes it more long winded? ;)
>>
>
>Hmm, it is not twice as long, is it? I'd say about 20% longer, which
>AFAIK is comparable to french or spanish.
The Dębiua is 46 lines long; the English was 21 lines long. The lines
were of about equal length and even taking into account a couple
Dębiua lines that have only one or two words, that still leaves a
translation more than twice as long as the English original.
It's not a complaint, mind! Just an interesting factoid, given that
the Kerno is only 19 lines.
>But it may also be that a
>high percentage of expressions are awkward paraphrases because the
>language, after all, is still is not so developed...
Ah, paraphrases. Could that be because D doesn't have certain
concepts, and they had to be explained? In the way a reader of the
Kerno version would understand "la grazeils" and not need the awkward
paraphrase explaining the "Cauldren [sic] of Cerridwen, which is the
Holy Grail of immortality".
>Here is an extremely detailed analysis of the section above:
Thanks! Tell us a little about Dębiuan speakers...
hs
>
>> Here is now the complete translation in Dêbiua (phew!).
>>
>> Põi thikri okhlthóph tltaé
>> *****************************
>>
>> Khogör by åaãph thékoå kyky, thukri påi drthoö aårth kétrhib uóokh påi
>> thysyph pèr Artémis, Åstårté, Diõé, Mèlusiêé, Aphrodité, Kèriduèê,
>> Diåãå, Åriãsrod, Brid, mou pöa öaåph åioph dérdi.
>>
>
> could you record it spoken?
>
Yes - here is the recording of the above section. For the whole text I
would have to practice some more...
http://home.datacomm.ch/straub/lang/denbiuagoddess.m3u
The sound actually is a little rougher than I had imagined a vowel-rich,
consonant-poor language would sound like, but meanwhikle I am starting
to like it :-)
--
Hans Straub
Don
>
>
> An intriguing and pretty neat text, I must say! What's its origin and
> how is it used?
>
the most beautiful ritual text of British Traditional Witchcraft, or
Wicca. It should be credited to Doreen Valiente and Gerald Gardner,
though they also drew on earlier material that was purportedly from
Italian witchcraft (stregheria). It is one of my favorite texts, just
for its sheer beauty. There are some who will be unhappy with me for
posting it here, but it has already been published many times and is
very available. If you use it, use it with respect. It is very powerful,
and can change your life.
--Don
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> The sound actually is a little rougher than I had imagined a vowel-rich,
> consonant-poor language would sound like, but meanwhikle I am starting
> to like it :-)
my earphones went broken today when I was repairing my cd-recorder :/
but I try to connect my comp to some other playing equipment in the
evening.
thx
hs
<elemtila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:11:26 +0200, hs <h...@datacomm.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hmm, it is not twice as long, is it? I'd say about 20% longer, which
>>AFAIK is comparable to french or spanish.
>
>The Dębiua is 46 lines long; the English was 21 lines long. The lines
>were of about equal length and even taking into account a couple
>Dębiua lines that have only one or two words, that still leaves a
>translation more than twice as long as the English original.
>
>It's not a complaint, mind! Just an interesting factoid, given that
>the Kerno is only 19 lines.
>
No problem. But dunno - on my newsreader the english version is 38
lines...
>
>Ah, paraphrases. Could that be because D doesn't have certain
>concepts, and they had to be explained? In the way a reader of the
>Kerno version would understand "la grazeils" and not need the awkward
>paraphrase explaining the "Cauldren [sic] of Cerridwen, which is the
>Holy Grail of immortality".
>
Not necessarily a question of not having - more one not having yet, or
still having concepts that eventually will turn out unpractical; being
in a stage where methods of word-derivation and building compound
words have been established, which seduces to define new words with
these methods instead of just defining new roots; but these often come
out awkward. The derivation for the word "charge" (okhltóph tltaé -
this one is undoubtedly _much_ longer) is an example for this.
>>Here is an extremely detailed analysis of the section above:
>
>Thanks! Tell us a little about Dębiuan speakers...
>
I designed the language first, out of linguistic interest, without
thinking about the speakers - but meanwhile there is indeed a fictious
land where it is spoken. The country, so far, is not that interesting:
it is called Iouiph Učr, which could be translated as "Eastwater" and
is derived from a big river flowing through it, which is called Iouiph
Ukhčpr. There is a second river in the west, called Iulĺph Ukhčpr
(Westwater). It is mainly flat with a monsoon climate, and agriculture
is mainly rice.
The religion of the Dębiuans - or Thęiphua, in their own language -
may be of interest: I would describe it as a kind of platonism, and it
is reflected in the language insofar as every adjectival root,
combined with the noun root th-k, can be a god (the adjectival roots
describe platonic ideas, so to say). The goddess of "The Charge of the
Goddess" suits in there as Thékoĺ (the Mother) or Thikri (goddess or
"the" goddess) - a powerful one, but in the belief of the Thęiphua
still subordinate to Thlkur (the One), which has no gender and
encloses everything. A number of gods actually have an analogon in the
ancient greek pantheon - such as Thokrsr (Gaia), Thlkia (Eros) or
Thukrio (Nike).
Something like that...
--
Hans Straub
The Dębiua Language: http://home.datacomm.ch/straub/lang
Scotto Hlad
tell me how to pronounce the name of your conlang, Dêbiua?
It would be nice to hear other conlangs spoken like that.
Scotto Hlad
"hs" <h...@kaba.com> wrote in message
news:40da9294$0$26626$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
hs
> Hey good work. It is really good to hear someone's conlang spoken. Can you
>
Thanks! The consonants are like in english. The vowel of the first
syllable is nasalized, like in french "vin" or "pain", and the second
syllable is like in english "pure".
> It would be nice to hear other conlangs spoken like that.
>
Yes, that would be fun! IIRC, Zbihniew once posted a recording here - is
that one still around? And Viktoro has examples somewhere on his website.
Padraic Brown
wrote:
Hey - it's a good translation exercise! Anyone unhappy about reading a
Pagan text can simply delete it. The rest of us will happily translate
and consider how the text might need to change in the context of the
concultures surrounding our languages.
I think I used it with due respect: there is no such thing as Wicca in
the world the Kerno language inhabits. I am uncertain if such a text
would even arise in the Pagan religions that exist in that world
(sometime I'll have to chat with my Pagan expert on the matter); but
in any event, the surrounding culture is more aware of some of the
things in the text that most people are not. Hence the slight
alterations and deviations from a strict literal translation.
Prai Jei
<40DAD610...@earthREMOVElink.net>:
> Padraic Brown wrote:
> There are some who will be unhappy with me for
> posting it here, but it has already been published many times and is
> very available. If you use it, use it with respect. It is very powerful,
> and can change your life.
>
> --Don
Mu amsove seda dos si em udil dumashai (shoda ha ji dos na) meno ha ji reva
mo u tioda, em vurrus Christ.
No hangups about translating it (which I have done) yet I shall live and die
a Christian.
--
Paul Townsend
I put it down there, and when I went back to it, there it was GONE!
Interchange the alphabetic elements to reply
Donald J. Harlow
news:40B49ACF...@earthREMOVElink.net...
> gunananda wrote:
> >
> > hat da irgendjemand noch nicht verstanden warums da geht ,
> > der was nur deutsch und englisch kann so wie ich ?
>
> Sorry. I'll post it in English soon (I have to go, or I'll be late for
> work). I also translated it into Esperanto some years ago, and will try
> to post that too, if I can find it.
>
You can find Matt McLauchlin's Esperanto translation at
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/matt/esperanto/tradukoj/ordono.html .
Also, the same translation, at
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordono_de_la_Diino .
--
-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html
http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/
zbihniew
napisał(a) :
> Yes - here is the recording of the above section. For the whole text I
> would have to practice some more...
>
> http://home.datacomm.ch/straub/lang/denbiuagoddess.m3u
>
> The sound actually is a little rougher than I had imagined a vowel-rich,
> consonant-poor language would sound like, but meanwhikle I am starting
> to like it :-)
yep, only today did i have an opportunity to listen to it and actually,
i expected more vowels there :D sounds like "õ" are likely to become om/on