"bad" to denote place names
anal...@hotmail.com
(Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
(1) is this extant in Europe also?
(2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
Peter T. Daniels
In your area it's -abad, not -bad; Persian, IIRC.
In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
waters (e.g. Marienbad).
Helmut Richter
> In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
> waters (e.g. Marienbad).
Much more frequently in the form "Bad XYZ" where XYZ is the real name of
the location. See http://www.postleitzahl.org/ : get into the form
"Suche", choose "nach Ortsname" and enter "Bad".
--
Helmut Richter
benl...@ihug.co.nz
> On Mar 27, 9:36 pm, analys...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > is fairly common in the Indian subcontinent,Iran, and central Asia
> > (Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
>
> > (1) is this extant in Europe also?
>
> > (2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
>
> In your area it's -abad, not -bad; Persian, IIRC.
My little book of modern Persian says a^ba^di 'inhabited place'.
Emungo
>
> - Show quoted text -
If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic bad which is
quite common in Highland geographic features and (I'm relying on that
great language source the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft, grove,
thicket'. Don't have suitable sources at hand to check what's going on
in English names Badminton and Badbury Rings. Is the latter perhaps
something to do with the AS feminine anthroponym Beaduburh vel sim
which I recall being at the root of some other toponym?
But a potentially more interesting and certainly more focussed
question is whether there are or were Persian exonyms for places in
Europe containing -abad.
Craoi...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
> > waters (e.g. Marienbad).
>
> Much more frequently in the form "Bad XYZ" where XYZ is the real name of
> "Suche", choose "nach Ortsname" and enter "Bad".
>
> --
> Helmut Richter
Yes. For some reason though, it is not used before Baden-Baden. You do
not use Bad Baden-Baden, although I think Baden-Baden is a traditional
bathing place. :)
Craoi...@gmail.com
> On 28 Mar, 09:22, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 28, 4:29 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 27, 9:36 pm, analys...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > is fairly common in the Indian subcontinent,Iran, and central Asia
> > > > (Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
>
> > > > (1) is this extant in Europe also?
>
> > > > (2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
>
> > > In your area it's -abad, not -bad; Persian, IIRC.
>
> > My little book of modern Persian says a^ba^di 'inhabited place'.
>
> > > In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
> > > waters (e.g. Marienbad).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic bad which is
> quite common in Highland geographic features and (I'm relying on that
> great language source the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft, grove,
> thicket'.
I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come from, but
then I am fluent in Irish, not in ScG. Irish has no word "bad"; there
is "bod", which is probably in some dialect pronounced as "bad", but
it is actually the word for "penis" (cf. the disparaging word for a
man, "bodach", and "gearrbhodach", meaning "an uppity young man", but
word for word "a short-penissed person".
Lanarcam
There is a village in Britanny, called Baden, I have no idea
whether it has common roots with Baden-Baden in Germany.
Emungo
>
> - Show quoted text -
Interesting. Well it does look like a recurrent element - Badenoch,
Badrallach, Badninish, Badnagie, Badnagan, Badluarach, Badcaul,
Badenscoth (= Scottish Baden? A transplanted community of German
enthusiasts for cold baths and and healthy living (cf Gordonstoun)?),
and a group of features described as "hill or mountain" beginning Bad
a'
I won't go into possible links between cold baths and short-penissed
persons.
anal...@hotmail.com
> On Mar 28, 4:29 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 27, 9:36 pm, analys...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > is fairly common in the Indian subcontinent,Iran, and central Asia
> > > (Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
>
> > > (1) is this extant in Europe also?
>
> > > (2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
>
> > In your area it's -abad, not -bad; Persian, IIRC.
>
> My little book of modern Persian says a^ba^di 'inhabited place'.
I should have known that since abAdi means population in Hindi/Urdu.
Would the Persian word be related to Sanskrit Avarta (place of
abode) ?
And would the European "bad" as place-name be related to the PIE root
of "water"?
>
>
>
>
>
> > In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
Brian M. Scott
<Craoi...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:37e59585-b5c3-4868...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang,alt.lang:
> On Mar 28, 12:09 pm, Emungo <pyti...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>> If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic
>> bad which is quite common in Highland geographic
>> features and (I'm relying on that great language source
>> the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft, grove, thicket'.
> I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come
> from, but then I am fluent in Irish, not in ScG. Irish
> has no word "bad"; there is "bod", which is probably in
> some dialect pronounced as "bad", but it is actually the
> word for "penis" (cf. the disparaging word for a man,
> "bodach", and "gearrbhodach", meaning "an uppity young
> man", but word for word "a short-penissed person".
Dwelly does indeed have an entry for Sc.Gael. <bad> 'tuft,
cluster, bunch'; <bad chaorach> 'a flock of sheep', <bad
fuilt> 'a tuft of hair' are usage examples. MacBain says 'a
cluster, thicket' and notes Breton <bot, bod> 'bunch of
grapes, thicket'; he says that these are common in Breton
and Scottish place-names. Ah, here we go: Watson discusses
it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_. He says that
it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a particular
place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of hair'.
It has diminutives <badán> and <badaidh>, often used in the
sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that
it's British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place'
and then generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
Brian
Trond Engen
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:23:59 -0700 (PDT),
> <Craoi...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <news:37e59585-b5c3-4868...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
> in sci.lang,alt.lang:
>
>> On Mar 28, 12:09 pm, Emungo <pyti...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic bad which
>>> is quite common in Highland geographic features and (I'm relying on
>>> that great language source the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft,
>>> grove, thicket'.
>>
>> I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come from, but
>> then I am fluent in Irish, not in ScG. Irish has no word "bad";
>> there is "bod", which is probably in some dialect pronounced as
>> "bad", but it is actually the word for "penis" (cf. the disparaging
>> word for a man, "bodach", and "gearrbhodach", meaning "an uppity
>> young man", but word for word "a short-penissed person".
>
> [...] Watson discusses it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_.
> He says that it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a
> particular place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of
> hair'. It has diminutives <badán> and <badaidh>, often used in the
> sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that it's
> British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place' and then
> generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
Germanic *bó:ţo:- f. "residence; premise" <- "existence". Cognate, loan
or coincidence?
--
Trond Engen
- reiser bu
Yusuf B Gursey
: is fairly common in the Indian subcontinent,Iran, and central Asia
: (Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
: (1) is this extant in Europe also?
: (2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
in asia it is persian a:ba:d "a city,a habitation"
Brian M. Scott
<tron...@engen.priv.no> wrote in
<news:8--dnZodj6H...@telenor.com> in
sci.lang,alt.lang:
> Brian M. Scott skreiv:
[...]
>> [...] Watson discusses it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_.
>> He says that it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a
>> particular place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of
>> hair'. It has diminutives <badán> and <badaidh>, often used in the
>> sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that it's
>> British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place' and then
>> generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
> Germanic *bó:ţo:- f. "residence; premise" <- "existence".
> Cognate, loan or coincidence?
Not a loan, I think, on account of the differing vowel
length, but quite possibly a cognate. Matasovic says that
Welsh <bod> 'dwelling, place' is from PCelt. *buta: 'place,
dwelling, hut' (whence also OIr <both> 'hut', Corn. <bod,
bos>, and Bret. <Bod-> in place-names). He gives no PIE
source: 'There is a possible connection to Lith. <bůtas>
'home, house' < *bHu-to- but this might be accidental'.
Derksen accepts the relationship, as does Watkins. Clearly
<bůtas> and *bo:ţo: are from the same PIE root, *bHeu-,
though one is zero-grade and the other lengthened o-grade.
Brian
Adam Funk
> On Mar 28, 10:20 am, Helmut Richter <hh...@web.de> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > In German-speaking areas it's -bad 'bath', i.e. a place with healthful
>> > waters (e.g. Marienbad).
>>
>> Much more frequently in the form "Bad XYZ" where XYZ is the real name of
>> the location. Seehttp://www.postleitzahl.org/: get into the form
>> "Suche", choose "nach Ortsname" and enter "Bad".
But "L'Année dernière à Bad Marienberg" isn't a very catchy book title.
> Yes. For some reason though, it is not used before Baden-Baden. You do
> not use Bad Baden-Baden, although I think Baden-Baden is a traditional
> bathing place. :)
Doubly so.
--
Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp
out of the blue, no explanation. (Cox 1984)
Jack Campin - bogus address
>>> bad which is quite common in Highland geographic
>>> features and (I'm relying on that great language source
>>> the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft, grove, thicket'.
>> I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come from
> it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_. He says that
> it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a particular
> place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of hair'.
> It has diminutives <badán> and <badaidh>, often used in the
> sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that
> it's British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place'
> and then generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
For some of those (Badenoch, Badenyon), how about "bailtean"? -
variant of "baile" ("farm", "township") pronounced roughly "baden".
It's not particularly common.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
Brian M. Scott
address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
<news:bogus-BCA77A....@news.news.demon.net> in
sci.lang,alt.lang:
>>>> If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic
>>>> bad which is quite common in Highland geographic
>>>> features and (I'm relying on that great language source
>>>> the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft, grove, thicket'.
>>> I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come from
>> Watson discusses
>> it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_. He says that
>> it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a particular
>> place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of hair'.
>> It has diminutives <badįn> and <badaidh>, often used in the
>> sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that
>> it's British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place'
>> and then generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
> For some of those (Badenoch, Badenyon), how about
> "bailtean"? - variant of "baile" ("farm", "township")
Variant? It's the nominative plural.
<Badenoch> is <Bąideanach>, from <bąithte> 'drowned,
submerged'; it's effectively 'the drowned/submerged land',
named because it was subject to inundation from Spey.
<Badenyon> appears to be <Bad an Eņin> 'knoll / place of the
birds'.
> pronounced roughly "baden".
Very, *very* roughly.
> It's not particularly common.
With no attempt to be exhaustive, Watson has about 20
distinct names containing the element, some of them found
more than once.
lora...@cs.com
> Brian M. Scott skreiv:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:23:59 -0700 (PDT),
> > <news:37e59585-b5c3-4868...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
> > in sci.lang,alt.lang:
>
> >> On Mar 28, 12:09 pm, Emungo <pyti...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>> If we're bringing in German -bad and Bad-, there's Gaelic bad which
> >>> is quite common in Highland geographic features and (I'm relying on
> >>> that great language source the Ordnance Survey here) means 'tuft,
> >>> grove, thicket'.
>
> >> I cannot possibly think of what Gaelic word it could come from, but
> >> then I am fluent in Irish, not in ScG. Irish has no word "bad";
> >> there is "bod", which is probably in some dialect pronounced as
> >> "bad", but it is actually the word for "penis" (cf. the disparaging
> >> word for a man, "bodach", and "gearrbhodach", meaning "an uppity
> >> young man", but word for word "a short-penissed person".
>
> > [...] Watson discusses it in his _Celtic Place-Names of Scotland_.
> > He says that it's found only in Sc.Gael., meaning 'a spot, a
> > particular place', then 'a clump of wood', etc., also 'a tuft of
> > hair'. It has diminutives <badán> and <badaidh>, often used in the
> > sense 'a small company' (of men or animals). He thinks that it's
> > British <bod> 'residence', specialized to 'spot, place' and then
> > generalized to the 'clump, tuft' senses.
>
> or coincidence?
"booth
c.1145, from O.Dan. boþ "temporary dwelling," from E. Norse boa
"dwell," from P.Gmc. *botho (cf. Ger. Bude, M.Du. boode), from base
*bhu- "to dwell" (cf. Lith. butas "house," O.Ir both "hut"), from PIE
base *bheue- "to be, exist, grow" (see be). Cf. also (see bound (adj.
2)). "
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=booth&searchmode=none
I add Baltic Latvian 'buda' - 'hut'.
lora...@cs.com
"bath
O.E. bæð "immersing in water, mud, etc.," also "quantity of water,
etc., for bathing," from P.Gmc. *batham (cf. O.N. bað, M.Du. bat, Ger.
bad), from PIE base *bhe- "to warm" (cf. L. fovere "to foment").
Original sense was of heating, not immersing in water. The city in
Somerset, England (O.E. Baðun) was so called from its hot springs. "
And towards that meaning of 'immersing' I find Latvian 'bazha'
interesting.. meaning 'a place where something is stored' literally 'a
place where something is stuffed into'...
A Latvian christian 'church' is a 'baznica'.. whether this refers to
living or dead people being stuffed inside is not clear, but is
suspect the orginal meaning was analogous to the disparaging greek/
roman pagan 'charnel house' term.
lora...@cs.com
Oops.. an additional meaning could be inferred.. 'baznica' could have
originally referred to a place where people were 'immersed' into
baptismal waters at sword point (which the invading 'Brothers of the
Sword' were apt to do). But this would only make sense if the
'Brothers' practised whole body immersion - something that requires
historical corroboration.
lora...@cs.com
Interesting... Baltic Latvian has 'badiit/bodiit' meaning 'to poke' or
'to stab'.
Emungo
> But a potentially more interesting and certainly more focussed
> question is whether there are or were Persian exonyms for places in
> Europe containing -abad.
I was hoping someone might have found this an interesting one to
answer - or even just given some Persian exonyms whether fitting the
bill or not. Spent quite a lot of the weekend looking forward to it,
in fact. Oh well.
Craoi...@gmail.com
What a clown you are. Buda is obviously a Germanic loan.
By the way, why do you call it "Baltic Latvian"? Is there a Germanic
or a Slavic Latvian, too?
Craoi...@gmail.com
Why the hell do you call it "*Baltic* Latvian"? Are there non-Baltic
languages called Latvian, too?
Craoi...@gmail.com
> On Mar 28, 5:22 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 28, 4:29 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 27, 9:36 pm, analys...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > is fairly common in the Indian subcontinent,Iran, and central Asia
> > > > (Hyderabad, Ashkabad etc.)
>
> > > > (1) is this extant in Europe also?
>
> > > > (2) What is the origin of this place-name ending?
>
> > > In your area it's -abad, not -bad; Persian, IIRC.
>
> > My little book of modern Persian says a^ba^di 'inhabited place'.
>
> I should have known that since abAdi means population in Hindi/Urdu.
>
> Would the Persian word be related to Sanskrit Avarta (place of
> abode) ?
Has it ever occurred to you that Hindi/Urdu has borrowed hosts of
words from Persian?
lora...@cs.com
No, silly person..
The distinction is made to differentiate it from Baltic Lithuanian.
lora...@cs.com
Having a monomaniacal day?
Paul J Kriha
news:a2a34555-bdf0-4944...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...>[...]
>
>> >http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=booth&searchmode=none
>> > I add Baltic Latvian 'buda' - 'hut'.
>>
>> What a clown you are. Buda is obviously a Germanic loan.
>>
>> By the way, why do you call it "Baltic Latvian"? Is there a Germanic
>> or a Slavic Latvian, too?
>
>No, silly person..
>The distinction is made to differentiate it from Baltic Lithuanian.
Oooookaaaay, I must admit, I didn't expect that for an answer.
pjk
P.S. Craoibhin66, if you really want to see him spin, try
suggesting that "Baltic" Latvian borrowed it via Polish "buda",
or Cz "bouda". :-)
lora...@cs.com
Please prove it.. with some etymology.
Do you have a more original root form.. a verbal form, perhaps?
Of course you don't.
Oh.. why wait?
I'll trump your proto-germanic pique right here and now:
Baltic Latvian: 'Buvet' - 'to build'; 'buva' - 'a building'
Now give me the German or 'germanic' equivalents.
Patrick Karl
You must be especially thick. Or don't you think that simply "Latvian"
isn't distinctive enough from "Lithuanian"?
Paul J Kriha
Oh dear, oh dear, lorad.
People are beginning to notice, they talk and point the fingers!
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
Latvian buda could be a borrowing from Germanic as well as from Slavic
(Serb. buda hut); from the Slavic verb biti (to be), Serb obita(va)ti
(to dwell). Latvian buva must be Serbian bivak (bivouac), again from
the above Serb. verb biti/bivati (to be, to exist, to be stationed).
Or it might be related to Serbian buva (flea) and buvara (calaboose),
ha, ha...
As I told before, Latvian is a kind of Slavic with a severe spech
defect. ;-)
DV
Craoi...@gmail.com
Too easy: Bude, which means "hut", "cabin", Middle High German
"buode", which is demonstrably related to the verb "bauen", to build.
Craoi...@gmail.com
And of course, "buvet" and "buva" sound a little too alike German
bauen, Bau, Swedish bo (meaning as a verb "to reside, to live (in a
certain place)", as a noun "a bird-nest") and Icelandic búa. And by
the way, a camp is in Icelandic búðir, plurale tantum of the singular
búð.
Craoi...@gmail.com
wrote:
> <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
At least for Polish, that is not entirely impossible. However, the
German presence in Latvia since the Middle Ages already accounts for
the word. By the way, more cognates: "booth" in English.