etymology of 'yoghurt'
Tadas Blinda
> "Anton" <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > "In partnership with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's political party,
> > the lobby created a working group to draft legal safeguards against what
> > they said were the risks of Skype and other Voice over Internet Protocol
> > (VoIP) telephone services."
>
>
> Some governments simply find it extremely worrying that technology
> undermines their ability to control the citizens. We saw signs of this
> paranoia even in America during the GWB presidency. As we know, China, so
> far, is worse in this respect than Russia. One example: ever since the
> unrest in East Turkistan (which the Han Chinese stubbornly call 'Xinjian') I
> havent been able to get in touch by email with my Uyghur friends. I have no
> doubt that the Chinese authorities are to blame for this.
Someone claimed on SCB (in French) that 'Uighur' is the etymology of
'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
yoghurt — ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the -
gh- is a "soft" sound, in many dialects closer to an Eng. "w." The
root yog means roughly "to condense" (perhaps they mean 'curdle'?).
I not the similarity to 'mankurt'. If -urt is a suffix, I wonder what
mank- means?
Tadas Blinda
> vello kirjoitti:
> Yes, and think about all the poor horse whip makers that went out of
> business when the automobile was introduced.
>
> --
> Anton
Aw, c'mon everybody! Wouldn't you agree that « etymology of 'yoghurt'
» is a more interesting subject to discuss?
Yusuf B Gursey
On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > vello kirjoitti:
> > Yes, and think about all the poor horse whip makers that went out of
> > business when the automobile was introduced.
>
> > --
> > Anton
>
> Aw, c'mon everybody! Wouldn't you agree that � etymology of 'yoghurt'
> � is a more interesting subject to discuss?
>
> Someone claimed on SCB (in French) that 'Uighur' is the etymology of
no, it isn't though Old Uighur used the word.
> 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> yoghurt � ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> -
> gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an Eng.
"w." The
it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed a
soft sound in standard turkish, but it is a velar fricative
etymologically, as well as in some rural dialects. I will symbolize it by
G for ease.
it comes from the verb yoGur= "to knead", -t being a deverbal nominal
suffix. which seems to come from the
unattested word *yoG. from the word yoGun "dense" one can guess it has
something to do with makin dense, or condensation. it's first attestation
is as yoGrut / yuGrut in Eastern Early Middle Turkic (11th. cent.), but
many think that the older form just happens to be due to a regional
metathesis from yoGurt.
> root yog means roughly "to condense" (perhaps they mean 'curdle'?).
> I not the similarity to 'mankurt'. If -urt is a suffix, I wonder what
> mank- means?
that's not a Turkic word. no reason to suppose a morphological relation.
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > yoghurt — ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > -
> > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an Eng.
>
> "w." The
>
> it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed a
yoğurt , <ğ>
Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr.
Here is English Wiki's explanation of how yogurt came to the West and
why it's called yogurt:
There is evidence of cultured milk products being produced as food for
at least 4,500 years. The earliest yoghurts were probably
spontaneously fermented by wild bacteria Lactobacillus delbrueckii
subsp. bulgaricus.[citation needed]
Until the 1900s, yoghurt was a staple in diets of people in the
Russian Empire (and especially Central Asia and the Caucasus), Western
Asia, South Eastern Europe/Balkans, Central Europe, and India.
Bulgarian student of medicine in Geneva Stamen Grigorov (1878–1945)
first examined the microflora of the Bulgarian yoghurt. In 1905 he
described it as consisting of a spherical and a rod-like lactic acid
bacteria. In 1907 the rod-like bacteria was called Lactobacillus
bulgaricus (now Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus). The
Russian Nobel laureat biologist Ilya Ilyich Mechnikov, from the
Institut Pasteur in Paris, was influenced by Grigorov's work and
hypothesised that regular consumption of yoghurt was responsible for
the unusually long lifespans of Bulgarian peasants. Believing
Lactobacillus to be essential for good health, Mechnikov worked to
popularise yoghurt as a foodstuff throughout Europe.
A Sephardic Jewish entrepreneur named Isaac Carasso industrialized the
production of yoghurt. In 1919, Carasso, who was from Ottoman
Salonika, started a small yoghurt business in Barcelona and named the
business Danone ("little Daniel") after his son. The brand later
expanded to the United States under an Americanised version of the
name: Dannon.
Tarator is a cold soup made of yoghurt popular in the BalkansYoghurt
with added fruit jam was patented in 1933 by the Radlická Mlékárna
dairy in Prague and became popular in Central and Western Europe.[10]
It was introduced to the United States in 1947, by Dannon.
Yoghurt was first introduced to the United States by Armenian
immigrants Sarkis and Rose Colombosian, who started "Colombo and Sons
Creamery" in Andover, Massachusetts in 1929.[11][12] Colombo Yogurt
was originally delivered around New England in a horse-drawn wagon
inscribed with the Armenian word "madzoon" which was later changed to
"yogurt", the Turkish name of the product, as Turkish was the lingua
franca between immigrants of the various Near Eastern ethnicities
[citation needed] who were the main consumers at that time. Yoghurt's
popularity in the United States was enhanced in the 1950s and 1960s
when it was presented as a health food.
------------------------------------------------
Incognito
"Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in message
news:e0b68a09-2b2a-4d86...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 7, 5:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > yoghurt - ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > -
> > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an Eng.
>
> "w." The
>
> it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed a
yogurt , <g>
> soft sound in standard turkish, but it is a velar fricative
> etymologically, as well as in some rural dialects. I will symbolize it by
> G for ease.
YOGHURT originated from YOGA+ HURT + YURT = Yoga got hurt in a yurt and
drank some yoghurt :-)
Yusuf B Gursey
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in messagenews:e0b68a09-2b2a-4d86...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 5:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > > yoghurt - ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > > -
> > > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an Eng.
>
> > "w." The
>
> > it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed a
>
> yogurt , <g>
no. yoğurt, <ğ>
>
> > soft sound in standard turkish, but it is a velar fricative
> > etymologically, as well as in some rural dialects. I will symbolize it by
> > G for ease.
>
> YOGHURT originated from YOGA+ HURT + YURT = Yoga got hurt in a yurt and
> drank some yoghurt :-)
is thi supposed to be funny?
Dušan Vukotić
When you mentioned MTur. yugrut my first association was English curd
and Serb. ukrutiti 'to become stiff' (hence Serb. grušanje, grušati
'curdle, coagulate', gruševina 'beestings, colostrum'); all probably
related to Eng. hard, Serb. krut, Cz. krutý, OE heard, from IE "root"
*kar-. Of course, all these "similarities" are probably nothing more
but an interesting play of look-a-likes.
DV
Yusuf B Gursey
> On Dec 7, 11:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > vello kirjoitti:
> > > > Yes, and think about all the poor horse whip makers that went out of
> > > > business when the automobile was introduced.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Anton
>
> > > Aw, c'mon everybody! Wouldn't you agree that << etymology of 'yoghurt'
> > > >> is a more interesting subject to discuss?
>
> > > Someone claimed on SCB (in French) that 'Uighur' is the etymology of
>
> > no, it isn't though Old Uighur used the word.
>
> > > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
I wouldn't say "interesting" but "play of {on} look-a-likes" is to the
point.
Dušan Vukotić
> > 'curdle, coagulate', gru¹evina 'beestings, colostrum'); all probably
> > related to Eng. hard, Serb. krut, Cz. krutý, OE heard, from IE "root"
> > *kar-. Of course, all these "similarities" are probably nothing more
> > but an interesting play of look-a-likes.
>
> > DV
>
> I wouldn't say "interesting" but "play of {on} look-a-likes" is to the
> point.
Nevertheless, there is another "interesting" thing here. Namely,
Turkish yoğun might be derived from the same "proto-form" as Serbian
joguniti se 'to protest, rebel'; Russ. юнга/yunga 'ship's boy', юноша/
yunosha 'boy', юность 'youth', Ger. Jugend; also there are Serb. june
'young bull', junak 'hero', Serb. "junačiti se" has the same meaning
as "joguniti se" (rebel; metathesis *yugn => *yunk; cf. Ger. Junker;
from MGer junc 'young' + hêrre 'sir', contrary to MHG altherre 'old
gentleman'), junoša 'young man'. All these words are probably related
to OSl. югъ/yug 'south' (cf. Eng. south vs. youth; Serb. južno -
southerly; from jugno - and junoša 'young man') and OSl. огнь; Serb.
oganj, Lat. ignis 'fire', augeo -re 'grow, to enlarge, increase'.
DV
DV
Dušan Vukotić
>
> > I wouldn't say "interesting" but "play of {on} look-a-likes" is to the
> > point.
>
> Nevertheless, there is another "interesting" thing here. Namely,
> Turkish yoğun might be derived from the same "proto-form" as Serbian
> joguniti se 'to protest, rebel'; Russ. юнга/yunga 'ship's boy', юноша/
> yunosha 'boy', юность 'youth', Ger. Jugend; also there are Serb. june
> 'young bull', junak 'hero', Serb. "junačiti se" has the same meaning
> as "joguniti se" (rebel; metathesis *yugn => *yunk; cf. Ger. Junker;
> from MGer junc 'young' + hêrre 'sir', contrary to MHG altherre 'old
> gentleman'), junoša 'young man'. All these words are probably related
> to OSl. югъ/yug 'south' (cf. Eng. south vs. youth; Serb. južno -
> southerly; from jugno - and junoša 'young man') and OSl. огнь; Serb.
> oganj, Lat. ignis 'fire', augeo -re 'grow, to enlarge, increase'.
>
> DV
It looks as there is no better way to multiply a certain vocabulary
but to follow some pattern, For instance, French aube 'daybreak, dawn'
followed the similar logic as it happened to Serbian zora (OSl заря;
Russ. утренняя заря); Serbian o-zar-iti means 'to bring more light'
similar to French aube (from Lat. albus, alba 'white'). Of course,
there is Latin iuvenis -is 'young' that warns us that the proto-form
of young was *yeub(l)- and not just *yeu-, and such an "enlightenment"
makes it possible to "equate" young, iuventus and novus with clouds/
sky (Slavic nebo 'sky').
And probably you are going to ask, what all this have in common with
the above mentioned Turkish yoğun? I think that yoğun has a very close
(almost the same) meaning as the Serbian verb joguniti se 'to rebel'.
Maybe we are going to understand it much better if we know that
Serbian word for intense is "jak" (strong, dense, powerful, thick,
compact), and this word (jak) is most probably related to
'junak' (hero; junak => junačina augment of junak => jačina
'strength').
DV
PaulJK
> On Dec 7, 11:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>>> On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> vello kirjoitti:
>>>> Yes, and think about all the poor horse whip makers that went out of
>>>> business when the automobile was introduced.
What's going on? That has never stopped you before. :-)
pjk
Dušan Vukotić
Maybe I'm getting too old and jaded :-)
Yusuf B Gursey
<ostap_bender_1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > vello kirjoitti:
> > > > Yes, and think about all the poor horse whip makers that went out of
> > > > business when the automobile was introduced.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Anton
>
> > > Aw, c'mon everybody! Wouldn't you agree that « etymology of 'yoghurt'
> > > » is a more interesting subject to discuss?
>
> > > Someone claimed on SCB (in French) that 'Uighur' is the etymology of
>
> > no, it isn't though Old Uighur used the word.
>
> > > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > > yoghurt — ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > > -
> > > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an Eng.
>
> > "w." The
this pronounciation is attested in English first in 1819 then in 1844,
1858 and 1887 as yaoort (under the entry yaourt), according to the
Oxford English Dictionary. "Turkish yōghurt (with quiescent gh)"
in AmEng. (Random House) it's yogurt with an alternative as yoghurt.
OED also gives yogurt with yoghourt, yoghurd, yoghurt as alternatives
(and various variations of this previosuly attested. first attested in
English in 1625 as "Yoghurd"
>
> > it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed a
> > soft sound in standard turkish, but it is a velar fricative
> > etymologically, as well as in some rural dialects. I will symbolize it by
> > G for ease.
yoğurt
>
> > it comes from the verb yoGur= "to knead", -t being a deverbal nominal
> > suffix. which seems to come from the
>
> > unattested word *yoG. from the word yoGun "dense" one can guess it has
> > something to do with makin dense, or condensation. it's first attestation
> > is as yoGrut / yuGrut in Eastern Early Middle Turkic (11th. cent.), but
> > many think that the older form just happens to be due to a regional
> > metathesis from yoGurt.
>
> > > root yog means roughly "to condense" (perhaps they mean 'curdle'?).
> > > I not the similarity to 'mankurt'. If -urt is a suffix, I wonder what
> > > mank- means?
>
> > that's not a Turkic word. no reason to suppose a morphological relation.
>
> Here is English Wiki's explanation of how yogurt came to the West and
> why it's called yogurt:
>
...
Incognito
On Dec 13, 4:45 am, "Incognito" <y...@email.com> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in
> messagenews:e0b68a09-2b2a-4d86...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 7, 5:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > > yoghurt - ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > > -
> > > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an
> > > Eng.
>
> > "w." The
>
> > it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed
> > a
>
> yogurt , <g>
no. yogurt, <g>
>
> > soft sound in standard turkish, but it is a velar fricative
> > etymologically, as well as in some rural dialects. I will symbolize it
> > by
> > G for ease.
>
> YOGHURT originated from YOGA+ HURT + YURT = Yoga got hurt in a yurt and
> drank some yoghurt :-)
is thi supposed to be funny?
No, it supposed to be sobering, for you, as the least. Now look at the sky,
what do you see?
Yusuf B Gursey
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in messagenews:8b2b443e-4183-46bc...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 4:45 am, "Incognito" <y...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:e0b68a09-2b2a-4d86...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 7, 5:52 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 28, 5:34 am, Tadas Blinda <tadas.bli...@lycos.es> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 28, 1:27 pm, Anton <anton.use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 'yoghurt' (which is reputed to have originated in Central Asia).
> > > > Well, a certain etymological dictionary says otherwise:
> > > > yoghurt - ca. 1625, a mispronunciation of Turk. yoghurt, in which the
> > > > -
> > > > gh- is a "soft" sound, in manyurt in Turkish dialects closer to an
> > > > Eng.
>
> > > "w." The
>
> > > it's spelled yog~urt in Turkish the <g~> (g with a breve sign) is indeed
> > > a
>
> > yogurt , <g>
>
> no. yogurt, <g>
that's thr english spelling
Yusuf B Gursey
the turkish spelling is yoğurt with <ğ>, <g> with a breve sign on top
Incognito
It's either way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoghurt
Yusuf B Gursey
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in messagenews:71739270-f585-4adb...@m11g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
yes, yoghurt is another english spelling
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoghurt
J. Anderson
Is there a Turkic equivalent to the Finnish word 'tosikko'?
A 'tosikko' is someone who takes everything -- especially himself -- very,
very seriously. There seems to be lots of them in all sci.groups.
Panu
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in messagenews:8b2b443e-4183-46bc...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 4:45 am, "Incognito" <y...@email.com> wrote:
>
> >> YOGHURT originated from YOGA+ HURT + YURT = Yoga got hurt in a yurt and
> >> drank some yoghurt :-)
> > is thi supposed to be funny?
>
> Is there a Turkic equivalent to the Finnish word 'tosikko'?
>
> A 'tosikko' is someone who takes everything -- especially himself -- very,
> very seriously. There seems to be lots of them in all sci.groups.
Although Yusuf is both very learned, very humble, very helpful, and
consequently very well liked by all decent people in the sci.lang
group, he hasn't yet shown much indication of a sense of humor. This
is deplorable, but I guess nobody's perfect.
Yusuf B Gursey
thanks. you are right, I should loosen up a little while posting.
actually, I do think of myself as having a sense of humor, outside
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