New Newsgroup "Queen"
Annie...@oal.com
(To view the ASCII image properly, either switch to a
monospaced font, or paste this message into 'Notepad.')
_____
Hi, everybody. My name is Annie Ascii. ((( `\
Since Beth Stone has abdicated her _ _`\ )
position as "queen" of this newsgroup (^ ) )
by refusing to post, I'm hereby taking ~-( )
over as the new reigning female. Hehe! _'((,,,)))
,-' \_/ `\
If any of you guys are having problems ( , |
with your ASM code, just post your `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
questions here. I'll be happy to help. \ / | |
=()=: / ,'
I'll also be posting tutorials from time ,' \ '
to time about how to "crack" WinDoze, | )
and do things that Bill Gates doesn't | |
want you to do. |__/__._|
;/ /'
Looking forward to working with all you ( (
ASM hackers. But remember the Prime \ \
Directive: if you try to touch my moogies, \ )
I'll painfully disable your reproductive )\ (
capacity. Hehehe! Love, _/'_\_\
Annie `--'_/ _) aa
`--'
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The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
--The Mosquito Scriptkiddiot.
http://b3ta.com/top-10-cutest-kittens/
;p
Frank Kotler
One of *those* broads! Take a hike.
> Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
... and teach your server how to spell "Separate".
Looking forward to the double-post with full headers in a day or two.
Best,
Frank
CP/M-86 Fan
"Frank Kotler" <fbko...@attbi.com> wrote in message...
> > But remember the Prime Directive: if you try to touch my moogies,
> > I'll painfully disable your reproductive capacity.
That would be very hard considerning the reproductive tank is on the 'E'.
> One of *those* broads! Take a hike.
Frank!!
Better contribute some assembly (it's Z80, but it's better than nothing!):
LD HL,#4000 ; Point HL to something in memory (#4000)
LD DE,#C000 ; Point DE to where this thing is to go (#C000 <- Screen
Memory)
LD BC,#3FFF ; What is the size of this object? (#3FFF)
LDIR ; Okay, with those values in the registers this will move this
; thing (presumively a graphical image) to Screen Memory
RET ; If this is being called this will return back to where it
; was called.
; Please note: Only use this program on an Amstrad CPC based computer or
; Emulator. Should be compilable in DEVPAC assembler.
; Program also assumes that a file has been loaded into
; memory (at #4000).
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Frank Kotler
>>> But remember the Prime Directive: if you try to touch my moogies,
>>> I'll painfully disable your reproductive capacity.
>
> That would be very hard considerning the reproductive tank is on the 'E'.
Yeah, but it wasn't always so. I remember a gal named Ascii Alice... or
was that a Grace Slick tune? Go Ascii Alice?
> Better contribute some assembly (it's Z80, but it's better than nothing!):
Yeah - good idea!
cmp eax, eax
jnz replace_our_Beth
Since we're doing ascii-art, and Mosquito ScriptKiddiot wanted some
pictures... Here's something I cribbed from Andreas Tscharner's sig a
while back... 'Asn't got *much* dos in it.
> Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
Hey, that's a coincidence! Your server can't spell separate, either :)
Best,
Frank
;---------------------------------
; nasm -f bin -o prog.com prog.asm
org 100h
section .text
mov dx, msg ; print a message
mov ah, 9
int 21h
call lion_cls ; clear the screen
ret ; back to dos
;-----------------
;-----------------
lion_cls:
push ax
push bx
push cx
push dx
push si
push di
push es
mov es, [vid_seg]
mov ax, 1 ; count of chars from each line
xor bx, bx ; chars to skip on each line
mov dx, 158 ; added offset into screen
xor di, di ; initial offset into screen
.top:
mov si, andreas
push di
mov cx, 5
.five_lines:
push cx
push di
push si
add di, dx
add si, bx
mov cx, ax
rep movsw
pop si
pop di
add di, 160
add si, line_length * 2
pop cx
loop .five_lines
pop di
call delay
or dx, dx
jnz .not_right_edge
dec ax
jz .next_five
add bx, 2
jmp short .top
.next_five:
mov ax, 1
xor bx, bx
mov dx, 158
add di, 160 * 5
cmp di, 4000
jae .done
jmp short .top
.not_right_edge: ; left edge... so I'm dyslexic...
sub dx, 2
cmp ax, line_length
je .full_line
inc ax
.full_line:
jmp short .top
.done:
pop es
pop di
pop si
pop dx
pop cx
pop bx
pop ax
ret
;-----------------
delay:
push ds
push ax
xor ax, ax
mov ds, ax
mov ax, [46Ch] ; 18.2/sec timer tick
inc ax
.wait:
cmp [46Ch], ax
jnz .wait
pop ax
pop ds
ret
;---------------
section .data
vid_seg dw 0B800h
; watch the wrap!
msg db 13, 10, "Lion borrowed from: Andreas 'LionKing' Tscharner", 13, 10
db "andy <pig's tail> alderaan.ethz.ch", 13, 10, 13, 10, '$'
andreas:
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'(',07h,'"',07h,'`',07h
db '-',07h,"'",07h,"'",07h,'-',07h,'/',07h,'"',07h
db ')',07h,'.',07h,'_',07h,'_',07h,'_',07h,'.',07h
db '.',07h,'-',07h,'-',07h,"'",07h,"'",07h,'"',07h
db '`',07h,'-',07h,'.',07h,'_',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
line_length equ ($ - andreas) / 2
; note: all lines the same length!
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'`',07h,'o',0Ch
db '_',07h,' ',07h,'o',0Ch,' ',07h,' ',07h,')',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'`',07h,'-',07h,'.',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,'(',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,')',07h,'.',07h,'`',07h,'-',07h
db '.',07h,'_',07h,'_',07h,'.',07h,'`',07h,')',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'(',07h,'_',07h
db 'Y',07h,'_',07h,'.',07h,')',07h,"'",07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,'.',07h,'_',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ')',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'`',07h,'.',07h,'_',07h
db ' ',07h,'`',07h,'.',07h,' ',07h,'`',07h,'`',07h
db '-',07h,'.',07h,'.',07h,'-',07h,"'",07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,'_',07h,'.',07h,'.',07h,'`',07h
db '-',07h,'-',07h,"'",07h,'_',07h,'.',07h,'.',07h
db '-',07h,'_',07h,'/',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,'/',07h
db '-',07h,'-',07h,"'",07h,'_',07h,'.',07h,"'",07h
db ' ',07h,'.',07h,"'",07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,'(',07h,'i',07h,'l',07h,')',07h,'.',07h
db '-',07h,"'",07h,"'",07h,' ',07h,"'",07h,' ',07h
db '(',07h,'l',07h,'i',07h,')',07h,'.',07h,"'",07h
db ' ',07h,' ',07h,'(',07h,'(',07h,'!',07h,'.',07h
db '-',07h,"'",07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
db ' ',07h,'a',07h,'t',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h,' ',07h
;-----------------------------------------------------------
Rob
Is that 'E' for "excitement"?
CP/M-86 Fan
"Rob" wrote in message...
> > That would be very hard considerning the reproductive tank is on the
'E'.
> Is that 'E' for "excitement"?
No! A tank can only be 'Empty' or 'Full'! (Hardly Exciting). (Having the
Mumps doesn't help! (-;).
BJ
>> That would be very hard considerning the reproductive tank is on the 'E'.
>
>Is that 'E' for "excitement"?
>
My question is 'Did I miss something? What happened to Miss Beth?'
Randall Hyde
> My question is 'Did I miss something? What happened to Miss Beth?'
Maybe this means we'll see Beth Tool before too much longer!
Maybe I should stop posting and get back to work on HLA v2.0 :-)
Randy Hyde
Beth
Not yet; But then I'm waiting for HLA v2.0 :)
Also, I thought you and Frank also looked in on alt.os.development to
know that I've actually been tied up arguing with good ol' MS-Loving
Maxim about the X window system...and, also, there was my post on
there where I explained that I've been having some really ugly
problems with my news server over the last few days...it wasn't
responding and was duplicating things and giving me weird error
messages...it does seem to be cured now...
Anyway, as for "Annie ASCII", there is no need for "replacement" at
all...the more, the merrier...actually, since debs has mysteriously
disappeared without a trace and laura fairhead exited stage left for
quite some months, the only other female around here seems to be one
half of the Mark & Candice White "entity" on alt.os.development, who
post(s) schizophrenically that you're never sure quite who you're
talking to, anyway...I would actually be very happy to see more women
around here, even one's who say things like "moogies"...hehehe :)
Plus, anyway, I reckon it's just anonymous playing silly games
again...if so, nice touch replying to your own post to keep up the
illusion...hehehe :)
And I'm thoroughly disappointed in you lot...surely you don't need me
here to hold your hands? (no, I said "need", not "want" ;)...but,
well, it only goes to prove that you "inferior" men simply fall apart
when their isn't a woman to guide you around...hehehe :)
Although, yes, where is debs? She's now not posted for quite a long
time that I am firmly entering the "distinctly worried" phase...I do
hope she's okay...anyone heard anything from here? Frank?
Beth :)
CP/M-86 Fan
"Beth" <BethS...@hotmail.NOSPICEDHAM.com> wrote in message...
> Anyway, as for "Annie ASCII", there is no need for "replacement" at
> all...the more, the merrier...actually, since debs has mysteriously
> disappeared without a trace and laura fairhead exited stage left for
> quite some months, the only other female around here seems to be one
> half of the Mark & Candice White "entity" on alt.os.development, who
> post(s) schizophrenically that you're never sure quite who you're
> talking to, anyway...I would actually be very happy to see more women
> around here, even one's who say things like "moogies"...hehehe :)
Is "Moogies" even a word?! For all I know it means 'leg'. Yikes!
> Plus, anyway, I reckon it's just anonymous playing silly games
> again...if so, nice touch replying to your own post to keep up the
> illusion...hehehe :)
Just like me playing little games! ;-)
> And I'm thoroughly disappointed in you lot...surely you don't need me
> here to hold your hands? (no, I said "need", not "want" ;)...but,
> well, it only goes to prove that you "inferior" men simply fall apart
> when their isn't a woman to guide you around...hehehe :)
I think they just miss you as they miss playing there silly little games!
(naturally I'm guilty of it too, but I just do it to stur up the DOS users!)
;-)
> Although, yes, where is debs? She's now not posted for quite a long
> time that I am firmly entering the "distinctly worried" phase...I do
> hope she's okay...anyone heard anything from here? Frank?
University? ISP broke down (unlikely)? Long Holiday (maybe!)?
I'm Sorry if you were asking Frank in particular (instead of me), please
forgive me!! PLEASE!!!
Anyway for that Assembly you were all asking for (not!):
ORG #BE00
start: LD BC,table
LD HL,workspace
CALL #BCD1
RET
table: DEFW table2
JP copy
JP place
table2: DEFM "COP"
DEFB "Y"+#80
DEFM "PLAC"
DEFB "E"+#80
DEFB 0
workspace: DEFB 0,0,0,0
copy: LD A,#40
CALL #BC07
RET
place: LD A,#C0
CALL #BC07
RET
; Anyway, if you want to try this on an IBM, just download
; any DOS based Amstrad CPC emulator along with the DEVPAC
; assembler.
; If you want to know more about the #BC07 & #BCD1 calls
; you also better download the firmware guide!
Frank Kotler
> Randy wrote:
>
>>Maybe this means we'll see Beth Tool before too much longer!
>>Maybe I should stop posting and get back to work on HLA v2.0 :-)
>
> Not yet; But then I'm waiting for HLA v2.0 :)
Hehe. I'm betting we see HLA 2.0 sooner than Nasm 1.0! But we *might*
see Nasm 1.0 before BethTool 0.01. I understand your reluctance to pick
the fruit before it's ripe, but it *would* be nice to have a taste of
what you've got in mind.
> Also, I thought you and Frank also looked in on alt.os.development to
> know that I've actually been tied up arguing with good ol' MS-Loving
> Maxim about the X window system...
Actually, I wasn't sure *what* that last "epic poem" was about, but it
started out with some very interesting observations about the X windows
system. My initial, untutored, reaction to "X", is that it's just as
bloated, slow, and crash-prone as "the other kind of windows". You point
out that it's XFree86 that I'm looking at, and that the problem's in the
implementation, and not the X protocol. I guess I would have figured
that out for myself eventually, but I said "Oh, yeah!" when you pointed
out that the two need to be considered separately. An implementation
targeted to local-machine, x86-specific, "desktop" use is a *very*
intrigueing notion!
> and, also, there was my post on
> there where I explained that I've been having some really ugly
> problems with my news server over the last few days...
I haven't seen the "free re-post" with full headers included in the text
from Annie, yet. But I expect to. You're not alone with the various
"server problems" that crop up.
> Anyway, as for "Annie ASCII", there is no need for "replacement" at
> all...the more, the merrier...actually, since debs has mysteriously
> disappeared without a trace and laura fairhead exited stage left for
> quite some months, the only other female around here seems to be one
> half of the Mark & Candice White "entity" on alt.os.development, who
> post(s) schizophrenically that you're never sure quite who you're
> talking to, anyway...I would actually be very happy to see more women
> around here, even one's who say things like "moogies"...hehehe :)
Yeah! I guess because Laura never posted as regularly as Debs used to, I
hadn't really noticed her absense. She's got a nice web site at:
(still up, I just checked)
> And I'm thoroughly disappointed in you lot...surely you don't need me
> here to hold your hands? (no, I said "need", not "want" ;)...but,
> well, it only goes to prove that you "inferior" men simply fall apart
> when their isn't a woman to guide you around...hehehe :)
I haven't noticed us "falling apart", but we *do* enjoy holding hands
with you :) So please do hold our hands and guide us. And could you make
us some coffee, honey? <ducks and runs>
> Although, yes, where is debs? She's now not posted for quite a long
> time that I am firmly entering the "distinctly worried" phase...I do
> hope she's okay...anyone heard anything from here? Frank?
I'm worried about Debs, too. The very last I heard from her was a
message to nasm-devel on July 5th, in which she said:
---------------------
I'll take a proper look through the code in a couple of days, but I
don't expect to be getting much done before Monday because I've got
people coming over for the weekend (that's so rare that I'm gonna make
the most of it - party time :)
----------------------
I hope she just decided to make a long weekend of it. I e-mailed her
some time ago, and got neither a response nor a "bounce" message. I've
just sent another one - no bounce yet... Maybe you or someone in the UK
could try to look up a phone number... "No use worrying about things you
can't do anything about", but that doesn't stop me.
Anyway, good to see that you're just "otherwise occupied" and not mad at
us as Annie suggested. Hope Laura's okay, too, but I'm less worried
about her.
Best,
Frank
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan" joked about the femals in our ng's:
[...] I'll join in the fun a bit later.....
btw: I used Z-80 and Z-280 many years ago.
What's new at the Zilog-boarder.
A google-search didn't reveal a companies-site,
but I found a lot of Z-80 associated stuff.
Do you have a URL for Zilog's home
(or whoever may be responsible now)?
TAI.
--
wolfgang
CP/M-86 Fan
"wolfgang kern" <now...@nevernet.at> wrote in message...
> "CP/M-86 Fan" joked about the femals in our ng's:
>
> [...] I'll join in the fun a bit later.....
No Seriously, I don't joke about the Ladies, never! Made up ones perhaps.
> btw: I used Z-80 and Z-280 many years ago.
> What's new at the Zilog-boarder.
> A google-search didn't reveal a companies-site,
> but I found a lot of Z-80 associated stuff.
There still there. Last I check (before the Chapter 11 of Zilog) they were
still making powerful computers to compete the IBM's & Apple Based machines
(also providing Internet access & I think having some compatibility with the
old Zilog Chips).
> Do you have a URL for Zilog's home
> (or whoever may be responsible now)?
Ross Simpson
> > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
> Hey, that's a coincidence! Your server can't spell separate, either :)
Tom, Dick & Harry would probably have the same problem if they used the same
service! :-)
Next thing you'll say there's no 'u' in 'Colour'! ;-)
wolfgang kern
"Ross Simpson" wrote:
|
| > > Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
|
| > Hey, that's a coincidence! Your server can't spell separate, either :)
|
| Tom, Dick & Harry would probably have the same problem if they used the same
| service! :-)
|
| Next thing you'll say there's no 'u' in 'Colour'! ;-)
I have to say "Beth" teached me (some years ago) to use UK-english in NG-conversation.
In my private (incl. tech.)-notes I still use the Amerian color, etc...
--
wolfgang
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan wrote:
> "CP/M-86 Fan" joked about the females in our ng's:
| > [...] I'll join in the fun a bit later.....
| No Seriously, I don't joke about the Ladies, never! Made up ones perhaps.
We wouldn't see us as males if we didn't.....
| > btw: I used Z-80 and Z-280 many years ago.
| > What's new at the Zilog-boarder.
| > A google-search didn't reveal a companies-site,
| > but I found a lot of Z-80 associated stuff.
|
| There still there. Last I check (before the Chapter 11 of Zilog) they were
| still making powerful computers to compete the IBM's & Apple Based machines
| (also providing Internet access & I think having some compatibility with the
| old Zilog Chips).
|
| > Do you have a URL for Zilog's home
| > (or whoever may be responsible now)?
|
| Try http://www.zilog.com
Thanks a lot, I just wonder why I never tried the nearest and easiest.
Perhaps M$-influence? To expect it can't be the shortest way :)
--
KESYS development
wolfgang
eof
Beth
> Ross Simpson wrote:
> | Next thing you'll say there's no 'u' in 'Colour'! ;-)
>
> depends which slang you prefer.
> I have to say "Beth" teached me (some years ago) to use UK-english
in NG-conversation.
When did I do that? And, anyway, if I "teached" you rather than
"taught" you, I've done a poor job with my English instruction, not to
point out that irregular verb...hehehe ;)
The closest I remember coming to this was pointing out that so-called
"International English" tends to use UK spellings rather than US
spellings...Australia, India, Ireland, etc. are also English speaking
and generally tend to the UK-style spellings through simple
history...but, truely, Americanisms are so common everywhere that it
really doesn't matter which you want to use, as everyone should be
able to cope with it, no problemo...I mean, dropping a "u" is entirely
trivial, especially in a climate where education of the English
language in English speaking countries is often so incredibly poor
that, really, I've seen some of the best examples of English written
by non-native speakers and some of the most attrociously bad English
from supposed "natural" and "native" speakers...
I'm no shining example example of perfect English either and what
little I get right can be squarely attributed to being a _programmer_
and naught can be attributed to my education...basically, computers
are utterly intolerant of any mistakes...spell a command wrongly and
you get error messages everywhere...thus, encountering computers at an
early age gave me an attitude towards my own education that almost no
schools these days provide...schools these days are more concern with
testing than instructing...and somewhere around the '60s, educational
establishments all picked up some "hippy vibe" that you shouldn't
"stress" or "crowd" or "get heavy" with the youngsters and that you
should "chill out" and let the kids spell things incorrectly and have
awful grammar to "encourage their creativity" or "inner child" or
other nonsense which doesn't actually hold any water in
practice...they simply do not have any lessons on grammar nor
punctuation nor spelling nor any _mechanical_ elements of language,
the emphasis is totally on "yeah, dude, express yourself and let out
those inner child feelings"...much as modern art has become all about
urinating over a canvas so as to "express inner feelings" or some such
nonsense...
Now, don't get me wrong...as you no doubt know, I think expressing
feelings and being creative is a totally noble and worthy goal...but
this isn't the real thing...this is academics with no natural talent
trying to make up for it with long words and setting up an environment
where being without talent is just fine, as long as you are
sufficiently pretenious in your description of what you've done:
"yeah, man...it's, like, a post-modern extension to my inner being and
the big red blob splattered in the middle of the canvas is, like,
representing pain or is it pleasure or something? Cool!"...
Then compare to the real thing; The foundation of modern design and
the spiritual inventors of the minimalist look of the modern age - the
Bauhaus - taught art like it was a science...Itten's colour theory is
founded entirely on real scientific and measured psychological
reaction to colour that _ALL_ modern advertising and design adheres to
rigidly or it dies...the theory, in fact, is a total _denial_ of any
"inner feelings" but concrete proof that reaction to colour has an
instinctual basis that applies to _everyone_...it was actually biology
or anthropology lessons he actually taught...
The great masters all knew the rigidity of the mathematics of light
and form and perspective...notes from many of the greatest artists -
including such people as Da Vinci - demonstrate where they would
pre-plan how light would land on a face using strict mathematical
formulae...they lacked NO "inner feeling", even when they would
compose their paintings to pentagons and to the ratio of the Golden
Section...
The mistake is to believe that laws are made to restrict...they are
not, they are to preserve and encourage _Liberty_...if you believe
that breeding chaos - to be just another monkey banging on a
typewriter hoping for Shakespeare to fall out the other end - is the
path to creativity, expression and genius, then this is simply
wrong...one learns musical theory, not to restrict, but to
_understand_ and, once understood, true creativity can occur...instead
of merely banging on some piano keys, hoping for "Imagine" or "Adagio
for Strings" to accidentally fall out the other side...it just won't
happen and, if it were by complete fluke to occur, then it's nothing
more than a million monkeys typing at a million typewriters...one
learns of light and perspective and form and psychological reaction in
order to compose exactly to bring those emotions and feelings you
desire out in other people by _understanding_ what it is we all share,
what is objectively true to all of us and transplanting that with
skill to a canvas...any old elephant can be given paint to splash over
a canvas for pretenious art critics to rejoice in having something
apparently "elitist" enough by which to forge their own selfish
careers upon...it's happened and it's true...
Much as one does not write a computer program by typing random numbers
into an binary editor...one learns the rules, one _understands_ the
rules, one absorbs the rules sufficiently that they are entirely
intuitive to you (and it's _this_ that the poor talentless critics and
pretenious bluffers don't understand...those "whizz kids" aren't born
knowing these things but they learnt to _understand_, then to live and
breathe the machine so that, yes, it almost seems as if they glide
over the keyboard, obeying no laws or rules to compose apparently
"random" genius...but, oh no, it's all planned...a person can just
become so good at it that it looks completely effortless...that,
though, is an illusion...much effort is _always_ needed and cannot be
avoided)...
And, finally, to return to language, one must learn its rules, learn
its semantics, learn its etymology, learn as much as you can - the
more, the better you can _understand_ - and, as I've underlined it all
the way through here, it's that _understanding_ - the intuitive
sense - that furnishes their creativity, that releases "genius" to
compose...if you cannot spell, cannot comprehend simple grammar then,
but for "happy accidents", you cannot speak or even fully understand
your own language? How does this furnish anything but to dumb down the
much-too-Liberated public back into automatons for the ruling classes?
To allow "NewSpeak" to be transplanted, where only a few would know
that the true words and semantics have been lost...
No, dispel the "hippy" talk about giving "freedom for creativity" for
it is a lie (whether ignorant or malicious, I'm not sure)...pure and
simple...if you have no education, you have no understanding...and
without understanding, you have no control...and without control, you
have no Liberty...and without Liberty, the Human Soul withers and
perishes...without Liberty - and no Hope of ever reclaiming it - then,
as overly dramatic as it might sound, what's the point in _anything_
at all, from the perspective of your freedomless life? It would be
giving up everything that you are and what makes us all human...
It is a lie; No different from "Arbeit Macht Frei" written over the
gates of Auschwitz...no different to "Read my lips...no new
taxes"...or Tony's "here are my promises, make sure I keep
them"...soundbites to please the masses to permit them to carry on
without opposition...but, remember, they create these soundbites for
one reason only: They are _scared_ of us...they must keep us dumb and
happy and unquestioning because, were the slaves to realise what is
being done to them and done in their name and we united in our
disgust - were revolt to breed (against my own personal taste, as
revolt gets violent and nasty and out of control very quickly) - the
life expectancy of those liars would be measured in nanoseconds...
As Tony is beginning to learn and I believe soon Bush will - if only
people these days knew how to read English then the following passage
is far and all-too-grimly familiar in our present days, is it not?
"Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious summer by all the
clouds, in the deep bosom of the ocean buried, that sieged our home
[...] I, curtailed of this fair proportion, cheated of feature by
dissembling Nature..deformed, unfinished..sent before my time into
this breathing world half'made, so unfashionably and lamely that dogs
bark at me, and then at my shadow...why, I, in this shepherd'piping
time, have no delight in its passing unless to spy my shadow on a
sunny day, and contemplate its..disarray
And therefore, since I cannot prove to be a lover, to while'away these
well'sung days, I am determined to prove a villain and hate the idle
melodies of the shepherd's pipe. Plots have I laid. Inductions
dangerous. By prophesies drunk with libels and fantasies..I set in
deadly _hate_, _one against the other_. And if they be as true and
just as I am subtle, false, and treacherous, this day will be
appropriately caged
They do me wrong, and I will not endure it! Who is it that complains
and villifies me?..because I cannot flatter and look fair..smile at
faces..smooth, deceive, and fawning [ Tony? ]...duck with faint nods
and apish courtesy, I be turned to a rancorous enemy. Cannot a plain
man live and think no harm?..but thus this simple truth must be abused
with silken, sly..an insinuating narrow eye
I do not know. The world has grown so bad that little wrens prey
where eagles dare not perch [ Where "the Eagle" dare not land? For all
of mankind, as She once did? ]. Since every deceit became a gentleman,
or a lady, there's many well'born, living stillborn [ Automaton? ]. So
do I ever, likewise, being well advised, for I had cursed and cursed
the mote in my own eyes
I do the wrong, and first began to brawl. The secret mischiefs that I
originate, I lay unto the grievous charge to others, who I have indeed
cast in darkness...as I beweep gullibles [ that's us lot, by the
way ], do they believe it, and withal whet my wit, and sigh, and with
a piece of scripture, tell them that the divine bids us "Do good for
evil," and thus I clothe my naked villain with odd old ends stolen
forth from holy script...a devil errors a saint
[ Indeed; All the demon fowl cite their own scripture and propose
their enemies to be "satan"...in this regard, they are
identical...just as I quoted Goering elsewhere confessing of this
being exactly the Nazi strategy to control the people, to scare them
with tales of "satan"...worked for the church, worked for the Nazis,
works on Halloween that children are mortified by what's under their
beds...some things do not change with age nor wisdom... ]
Innocence!..an untainted virtue of youthful years, _not yet divided
into the world's deceit_, nor capable of distinguishing one from one's
outward show
With written letters, fame lives long. Thus, like a trickster in a
trickster's play, I create two meanings in one word [ Like "collateral
damage", like "friendly fire", like "pre-emptive strike", like... ]
like the short'lived precocious in a divided world. However, I am not
made of Stone, and though two as one, I am penetrable to kind
entreaties..albeit against my conscience and earthly soul"
[ Shakespeare..._the_ reason to learn to speak English...though I've
heard he translates remarkably well because, of course, it's a lot
_what_ he says rather than how he says it...hehehe :) ]
> In my private (incl. tech.)-notes I still use the Amerian color,
etc...
Why don't you just use "Farb" instead? If they are private notes,
wouldn't your own native language be the most comfortable? Or are
there too many technical words in English, anyway, that it's easier to
stick with English throughout than use German sprinkled with lots of
English technical terms?
Beth :)
CP/M-86 Fan
"Beth" wrote in message...
> The closest I remember coming to this was pointing out that so-called
> "International English" tends to use UK spellings rather than US
> spellings...Australia, India, Ireland, etc. are also English speaking
> and generally tend to the UK-style spellings through simple
> history...but, truely, Americanisms are so common everywhere that it
> really doesn't matter which you want to use, as everyone should be
> able to cope with it, no problemo...I mean, dropping a "u" is entirely
> trivial, especially in a climate where education of the English
> language in English speaking countries is often so incredibly poor
> that, really, I've seen some of the best examples of English written
> by non-native speakers and some of the most attrociously bad English
> from supposed "natural" and "native" speakers...
Just noticed New Zealand didn't get a mention! :-) But then, it's not really
the way the spell it, more the way they say it! ;-)
Hi, to all the New Zealanders reading this.
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C
then after much snipping C added...
Agreed.
> Much as one does not write a computer program by typing random numbers
> into an binary editor...one learns the rules, one _understands_ the
> rules, one absorbs the rules sufficiently that they are entirely
> intuitive to you (and it's _this_ that the poor talentless critics and
> pretenious bluffers don't understand...those "whizz kids" aren't born
> knowing these things but they learnt to _understand_, then to live and
> breathe the machine so that, yes, it almost seems as if they glide
> over the keyboard, obeying no laws or rules to compose apparently
> "random" genius...but, oh no, it's all planned...a person can just
> become so good at it that it looks completely effortless...that,
> though, is an illusion...much effort is _always_ needed and cannot be
> avoided)...
Many of us have had such insight; pity the politicians, in general, do not.
"The heights that great men reached and kept.
were not attained by sudden fight.
But they, whilst their companion slept,
kept toiling upwards through the night."
Any one any idea who wrote this poem? For tis one of my favourates.
C 2002/12/2
wolfgang kern
"Beth" replied:
[about the slang....]
I wrote: (minor correction inserted)
|> I have to say "Beth" [told/advised/asked] me to use UK-English
|> rather than the slang I picked up during a visit of Texas.
| When did I do that? And, anyway, if I "teached" you rather than
| "taught" you, I've done a poor job with my English instruction, not to
| point out that irregular verb...hehehe ;)
Sorry, this term is not my only 'burned in' bug,
but with it I can be identified as "non-English-speaking",
which often let the replier use easier (better known) terms. :)
And thanks, any error pointed out like this can be avoided in future.
[snip,got it,agreed]
| And, finally, to return to language, one must learn its rules, learn
| its semantics, learn its etymology, learn as much as you can .......
That's true, but learning by doing (using in this sense)
seems to be the only way to learn a living language.
And life chat is quite different to read/write as in ng's.
[political abuse of words]
unfortunately right.
[the Bards poem....]
(I've heard something similar at school, I guess..)
| [ Shakespeare..._the_ reason to learn to speak English...though I've
| heard he translates remarkably well because, of course, it's a lot
| _what_ he says rather than how he says it...hehehe :) ]
Yes, words can be used to describe emotions as well,
even (or even due) many detours and the creation of abstract combinations.
But how would Intel's doc read in that form:
Below the canopy of the 168 pins, there housed an almost dead sand-glass.
After some centuries passed, a wealthy but greedy knight kissed it back into life......
| > In my private (incl. tech.)-notes I still use the American "color", etc...
| Why don't you just use "Farb[e]" instead? If they are private notes,
| wouldn't your own native language be the most comfortable? Or are
| there too many technical words in English, anyway, that it's easier to
| stick with English throughout than use German sprinkled with lots of
| English technical terms?
Yes, our official language is German, but Austrians aren't Germans, for sure.
at times when my ancestors buried their kings,
the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
As you know a bit German, this language isn't very doubtfree at all.
und "das Germanische ist des Technischen nicht mächtig"
Almost all technical literature is written in English and as my notes
doesn't contain to many plain text, English keep my notes short and clear.
| Beth :)
--
wolfgang
Beth
> "Beth" replied:
> [about the slang....]
> I wrote: (minor correction inserted)
> |> I have to say "Beth" [told/advised/asked] me to use UK-English
> |> rather than the slang I picked up during a visit of Texas.
[ Oh dear; I stress I never "told" nor "advised" nor "asked"...use
whatever you like, however you like, whenever you like...the English
speaking nations have more commonality than difference and we tend to
know about each other's "quirks" that y'all needn't bother you wee
little head 'bout such t'ings...the note was simply factual about the
designated "official" status...others would "advise" you...but, ummm -
perhaps understandbly confusing - I'm advising you of their advice but
not actually advising that advice myself, as I couldn't really care
less...if that makes any sense to anyone...hehehe :) ]
> | When did I do that? And, anyway, if I "teached" you rather than
> | "taught" you, I've done a poor job with my English instruction,
not to
> | point out that irregular verb...hehehe ;)
>
> Sorry,
No need to apologise...you have done me no harm whatsoever...and, to
be honest, I pointed it out merely because there was a semi-amusing
"language" joke to be made from it and nothing else :)
> this term is not my only 'burned in' bug,
> but with it I can be identified as "non-English-speaking",
> which often let the replier use easier (better known) terms. :)
Indeed; Though, it's not as good an indicator of
"non-English-speaking" as you might think...I'm not exaggerating just
how bad some native English speaking education of our own language can
be in places...I've seen worse...and, always, the most important thing
is that you are understood...that's all language is about...often, I
find, there's an element of something similar to "Freudian Slip" or
"Beginner's Luck" in many "bugs" I've seen in people's English (native
or not)...
Native speakers end up tending towards "stock phrases", "sayings",
"idioms", "cliches" and other standardised stuff that lacking a
knowledge of these things actually often helps to _better_ express
what is meant...I mean, I'm the perfect example because I'm always
littering everything I write with quotes, sayings, idioms, old wives'
tales, etc. because, as I say, native speakers almost can't help but
tend towards those things...but where I'd probably say something like
"instinct", you've said "burned in bug" which really is the far
superior description, even if it's "non-standard" to be expressed like
that...because I've just tried to grab the closest "standard" word
where you've actually _described_ it and done so with more precision
than my choice of word can express...and, also, I'd probably have said
"standard terms" where you've said the much more _superior_ "easier
(better known) terms"...which, again, is closer to what is really
meant as it's a description of the actual elements involved...
Really, not a word of a lie, you've actually _expressed_ yourself in a
much better way than I because you're not encumbered by all the
"baggage" I carry...reading your words, people can get a true feeling
of what you want to say...reading mine, in a sense, the "baggage" is
limiting my expressive power, even if I have the "technical"
advantage...
> And thanks, any error pointed out like this can be avoided in
future.
Well, I actually would have overlooked it usually...'tis impolite and
may have offended...but, simply, there was an opportunity to make a
joke out of it and I can _never_ resist such temptations...one of my
many failings :)
> [snip,got it,agreed]
>
> | And, finally, to return to language, one must learn its rules,
learn
> | its semantics, learn its etymology, learn as much as you can
.......
>
> That's true, but learning by doing (using in this sense)
> seems to be the only way to learn a living language.
Agreed; And I do partially regret that, though I did make attempts to
learn "a living language", I didn't make as much attempt as I could
have (basically, I wasn't not speaking German or anything like
that...but I was often being "lazy" about it, I must confess...that
is, as you know, I'm a talkative person and should really have taken
every opportunity to just extend that to a new language but I tended
to just speak minimally...when necessary...it wasn't that I wasn't
trying but there were plenty of opportunities I should have not
hesitated to grab with both hands as good practice and, probably, a
lot of fun...but "lazily" just let pass...for example, I dashed
through the rain to get to the shop and, ordinarily, I'd have made a
comment or a joke about it or something but, instead, I say "eine
Marlboro, bitte", pay and leave...I took the "easy way out" when I
should have simply forced myself and, sure, risked perhaps looking a
bit stupid or something...but, as they say, no pain, no gain :)...
> And life chat is quite different to read/write as in ng's.
Indeed; That's why I should have made that effort with those
opportunities I let slip by because those were usually more "life
chat"...reading and listening was easy to do and I had plenty of
opportunity for that, which is why I should have taken up the
opportunity...that is, you should always strive to learn what you
don't know...even if the temptation is to stick with the familiar
things you know already...
Because, basically, now I'm back in England, I've still got plenty of
opportunities to grab German texts and practice reading...that, in a
sense, was not a priority because it was "life chat" that living in
Germany was giving me an opportunity to learn and practice...I
prioritised falsely because it was easy to "stick with what you
know"...I shouldn't really have done that...but, well, like most
things, it seemed fine at the time and it's the 20/20 vision of
hindsight that makes me now realise I probably should have done things
the other way around...
> [political abuse of words]
> unfortunately right.
But think what exactly that means if Shakespeare - hundreds of years
previously - can write something that has an element of accuracy,
naming the devices used even today by "half made kings"...he can be so
accurate because he examines the human condition itself and it never
changes, for all our "technologies" and "progress"...that men, jealous
of the pleasures of another, will so often try to destroy it as some
sort of "revenge"...but what also is clear is that it was Nature that
made him "half made", not man...so, him and his clones since are
"punishing" the innocent - the Twin Towers, Afghanistan - for _their
own failings_...in truth, it has nothing to do with any of us but that
they would force it upon us...set one against another...blame others,
blame cultures, blame religions...create their "satan" to which to
fight...
"Star people
Counting your money till your soul turns green
Star people
Counting the cost of your desire to be seen
I do not count myself among you
I may be living in a dream
It's just there seem so many of you
Can't help but hope
There's a difference between...you and me
You're a star
(I'm talking to you)
You're a star
Maybe your mama gave you up, boy
(It's the same old same old)
Maybe your daddy didn't love you enough, girl
Star people
Never forget your secret's safe with me
Just look at all the wonderful people
Trying to forget they had to pay for what you see
It's a dream
With a nightmare stuck in the middle
But where would you be
Without all of that attention
You'd die
I'd die
We'd die, wouldn't we?
(Well, wouldn't we?)
Big, big, star!
Should go far!
Chorus
Talk about your mother
Talk about your father
Talk about the people
Who have made you what you are
Talk about your teacher
The bully boy who beat you
Talk about the people who have paid
For that new sports car
Did you get off on a bad foot, baby
Do you have a little tale to tell
Is that why you're star?
Is that what makes a star?
Nothing comes from nothing, baby
That fame and fortune's Heaven sent
And who gives a f*** about your problems, darling
When you can pay the rent
How much is enough?"
[ "Star People", George Micheal...is the world really run by uncaring
parents and schoolyard bullies, teasing and making people feel "half
made"? Are we looking at the butterfly wings that creates the tornado
of our "civilisation"? Probably...which seems so miraculous and quite,
quite ridiculous all at the same time :) ]
> [the Bards poem....]
> (I've heard something similar at school, I guess..)
> | [ Shakespeare..._the_ reason to learn to speak English...though
I've
> | heard he translates remarkably well because, of course, it's a lot
> | _what_ he says rather than how he says it...hehehe :) ]
>
> Yes, words can be used to describe emotions as well,
> even (or even due) many detours and the creation of abstract
combinations.
"As well"? You're quite right but I think you're getting the
priorities mixed up...words almost certainly came about to describe
emotions and it was an "accidental bonus" that allowed us to also use
them to write histories and explain the inner workings of clever
inventions...after all, what are the first words anyone speaks?
"Mama!!" or "Dada!!"...pure emotion, really, as nothing is actually
being said...yet it says everything that the parent could ever want to
hear...pure emotion...later on, the child will grow to talk about
about all those minor things we busy our days with...
> But how would Intel's doc read in that form:
>
> Below the canopy of the 168 pins, there housed an almost dead
sand-glass.
> After some centuries passed, a wealthy but greedy knight kissed it
back into life......
Granted, a technical reference is no place for emotion or
philosophy...it needs to be simply factual to deliver its content to
the reader...though, if there was the "technical" version for actually
getting facts, I don't know about you but I'd Love to hear the
"poetic" version afterward...remember, nothing inherently is "better"
or "worse" (which our King couldn't see), that opinions get in the way
when we want facts but if we'd rather opinions and emotions, the
"poetic" version would be a fantastic read...you've only written two
lines but I'd just Love to hear the rest of this "manual"...hehehe :)
> | > In my private (incl. tech.)-notes I still use the American
"color", etc...
>
> | Why don't you just use "Farb[e]" instead? If they are private
notes,
> | wouldn't your own native language be the most comfortable? Or are
> | there too many technical words in English, anyway, that it's
easier to
> | stick with English throughout than use German sprinkled with lots
of
> | English technical terms?
>
> Yes, our official language is German, but Austrians aren't Germans,
for sure.
Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
(whatever Hitler may have believed)...I've just been guilty of the
very same thing that some people assume me American because I speak
English...that is annoying, granted...I do apologise...
> at times when my ancestors buried their kings,
> the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
> As you know a bit German, this language isn't very doubtfree at all.
> und "das Germanische ist des Technischen nicht mächtig"
> Almost all technical literature is written in English and as my
notes
> doesn't contain to many plain text, English keep my notes short and
clear.
Fair enough; Though English is that "doubtfree" either...but, sure, if
it's less doubtfree and practically shorter and you're happy with it,
why not? :)
Beth :)
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > The closest I remember coming to this was pointing out that
so-called
> > "International English" tends to use UK spellings rather than US
> > spellings...Australia, India, Ireland, etc. are also English
speaking
> > from supposed "natural" and "native" speakers...
>
> Just noticed New Zealand didn't get a mention! :-)
"Omission from the list does not necessarily constitute omission from
consideration"; They were in the "etc." and the list isn't meant to be
"concrete" in any way - merely illustrative for the purposes of
discussion - because calling India "English-speaking" is a highly
"loose" usage indeed...
Clearly, it was not an exhaustive list because South Africa, the
Philipenes, Jamaica, blah-blah-blah are also missing...again, I've
also stopped the "extended list" short too because the purpose here is
merely to give a few illustrative examples of the point and not to act
as the be-all and end-all exhaustive list of all countries with
English as their primary language or listed as a secondary "official"
language...that would take an effort to be complete and totally
accurate...and, simply, that was not the point of the list, the list
was simply to give a few illustrative examples of countries that tend
towards UK-spellings due to history of how they became English
speaking (ex-colonial stuff)...
> But then, it's not really
> the way the spell it, more the way they say it! ;-)
Are you trying to make fun of me, Mr.CP/M? :\
Anyway, to digress completely, here's some fun I found on the web...a
website that lists out some of the words English has borrowed from
other languages...note, before you write them an Email complaining
that their list isn't exhaustive either, it's also not meant to
be...though, it is quite comprehensive...
http://www.krysstal.com/borrow.html
> Hi, to all the New Zealanders reading this.
"Zealand", of course, being a word borrowed from Dutch into the
English language...and the Maoris give us "haka", "kiwi" and "moa"
apparently...indeed, "hi!" to all the Southern Hemisphere countries
that I left out (merely for brevity, I do stress :)...always wondered,
though, where's "Old Zealand"?
Also, I see that Nahuatl (Mexico and Guatemala - The Aztec Language)
gives us "avocado" and it comes from their word for "testicle"...oh
dear, I'll never be able to look at an avocado the same way
again...hehehe ;)
Beth :)
bv_schornak
>Yes, our official language is German, but Austrians aren't Germans, for sure.
>
You have to be very courageous now ... here comes the shocking truth ...
it is not German, it is "modified" Bavarian!
> at times when my ancestors buried their kings,
>
> the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
>
up to Bavarians settled down in the "Wienerwald" - maybe, they
climbed some trees there if they drank too much beer. ;)
955 AD After the battle on the Lechfeld, Otto der Grosse (Bavaria)
threw the Hungarians out of the German Ostmark (later Oesterreich).
through The Ostmark was populated with more Bavarian settlers, the
residence of the Counts of Babenberg (from Bamberg) now was Vienna.
1273 AD Rudolf von Habsburg (elected king of Germany, ruler in
Switzerland) occupied the former Ostmark, now called Oesterreich (Austria).
Fact is: Austria is a Bavarian colony which was usurped by a Swiss
dynasty (Habsburger) in the Middle Ages.
The proof: We speak the same dialect - slightly mutated in Austria
throughout the last 700 years. With no support from their homeland,
they've forgotten so many things, but learned nice new stuff like
"vignette" (= toll sticker, 7.60 Euro for 10 days...).
Conclusion: RE-UNITE NOW - together for the kingdom of "Bavaraustria"!
(Do you have some "blue blooded" left over? We would need at least one...)
I'm amused by your sight of "Germany vs. Austria" - but we shouldn't
fall back into diverting nations because of the history, culture or
whatever else. In times of an European Union, where we are trying to
build a "State of Europe", we should see us as Europeans rather than
Austrian, British, Dutch, French, German, Spanish, Swedish, ... loners!
One step towards a future, where people may say "I'm an inhabitant of
the planet earth" (as I see myself to be one).
There are so much wrong thoughts about Germany all around the world, so
I had to say something about your "history" (it was thought as a joke -
at least, I think it should be one - so you may see my reply as the
"counter-joke")...
Pfueat'Di [slang: (God) bless you]
The Bavarian Barbarian (C)
aka Bernhard Schornak
P.S.1: The data was taken from an Austrian site - I'm not biased in this
case!
P.S.2: Put some bold *<ironic>* tags around the entire posting. BTW -
I'm often in Austria, and there _really_ is no big difference between
Bavarians and Austrians. Far less than the difference between Bavarians
and e.g. Hessians or "Ossis"... :)
bv_schornak
>Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
>attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
>(whatever Hitler may have believed)...
>
Wow - who did write your history books?
[Hitler]
Mr. Adolf Hitler was born in Braunau am Inn as the son of a Jew and his
(Austrian) housekeeper. Braunau was (and still is) a town in Austria.
Thus, Mr. Adolf Hitler was a native Austrian! ;)
[Nazis]
Austria "merged" with Germany by the "free" will of the Austrians (the
German _and_ Austrian Nazis put the government of Schuschnigg under
pressure, until he was leaving his place for the _Austrian_ Nazi
Seiss-Inquart). There was no war, both countries merged by contract. Not
to forget, that a markable part of the Austrian people were hailing
Hitler, too - same as the Germans did...
[Roots]
We should leave the facts as they are. Austria - of course - is an own
state, but we shouldn't deny, that they are part of the German tribes
with roots in Bavaria. This has nothing to do with past, current or
future borders - Austria was an own kingdom (and later an empire) since
1273. :)
Sorry, but I can't read such things without writing a "clarifying"
comment (to give a fair view of Germany)... ;)
Greetings from Augsburg
Bernhard Schornak
CP/M-86 Fan
"Beth" <BethS...@hotmail.NOSPICEDHAM.com> wrote in message...
> > Just noticed New Zealand didn't get a mention! :-)
>
> "Omission from the list does not necessarily constitute omission from
> consideration"; They were in the "etc." and the list isn't meant to be
> "concrete" in any way - merely illustrative for the purposes of
> discussion - because calling India "English-speaking" is a highly
> "loose" usage indeed...
Okay I was just put them on the map (to save any further confusion). My only
grudge with 'etc' being it doesn't clear anything, okay so I don't expect
the complete & unbridged guide to English Speaking Countrys (there are a lot
I would have missed).
> Clearly, it was not an exhaustive list because South Africa, the
> Philipenes, Jamaica, blah-blah-blah are also missing...again, I've
> also stopped the "extended list" short too because the purpose here is
> merely to give a few illustrative examples of the point and not to act
> as the be-all and end-all exhaustive list of all countries with
> English as their primary language or listed as a secondary "official"
> language...that would take an effort to be complete and totally
> accurate...and, simply, that was not the point of the list, the list
> was simply to give a few illustrative examples of countries that tend
> towards UK-spellings due to history of how they became English
> speaking (ex-colonial stuff)...
Ah okay. Only a better way of say it (as you can see I read the bits first
then answer them, rather than reading the whole lot & going back over it!)
> > But then, it's not really
> > the way the spell it, more the way they say it! ;-)
>
> Are you trying to make fun of me, Mr.CP/M? :\
No, I'm not trying to make fun of anyone (assuming you mean I'm making fun
of people with an accent - I reckon it's a nice addition to someone, but I'm
trying trying to make fun of people like myself).
> Anyway, to digress completely, here's some fun I found on the web...a
> website that lists out some of the words English has borrowed from
> other languages...note, before you write them an Email complaining
> that their list isn't exhaustive either, it's also not meant to
> be...though, it is quite comprehensive...
>
> http://www.krysstal.com/borrow.html
Doesn't worry me. Even with some of the french I've learned, I discovered
words which were borrowed.
wolfgang kern
"Beth" answered:
[...]
| Oh dear; I stress I never "told" nor "advised" nor "asked"...
Ok, Ok, I just reviewed my alt.os archive.
And I confirm you never said something like this literally.
I may have interpreted your 'flags' between the lines as advice.
| Really, not a word of a lie, you've actually _expressed_ yourself in a
| much better way than I because you're not encumbered by all the
| "baggage" I carry...reading your words, people can get a true feeling
| of what you want to say...reading mine, in a sense, the "baggage" is
| limiting my expressive power, even if I have the "technical" advantage...
Thanks, perhaps it's due the lack of knowing all words by heart.
As I use a reduced collection of terms my posts may be understood easier.
| ...but, simply, there was an opportunity to make a joke out of it
| and I can _never_ resist such temptations...one of my many failings :)
Nothing wrong with your sense of humour, reading parameters only is boring.
| > [political abuse of words]
| > unfortunately right.
| But think what exactly that means if Shakespeare - hundreds of years
| previously - can write something that has an element of accuracy,
Accuracy? I agree for a few hundred years consecutive culture,
but if I look at the many different interpretations of the 'Holy Bible',
it could have been just a newspaper (with similar truth-value in it).
Without a living trace (regular written literature) we have no chance
to interpret the perhaps 'fine tuned sayings' there today.
| naming the devices used even today by "half made kings"...he can be so
| accurate because he examines the human condition itself and it never
| changes, for all our "technologies" and "progress"...that men, jealous
| of the pleasures of another, will so often try to destroy it as some
| sort of "revenge"...but what also is clear is that it was Nature that
| made him "half made", not man...so, him and his clones since are
| "punishing" the innocent - the Twin Towers, Afghanistan - for _their
| own failings_...in truth, it has nothing to do with any of us but that
| they would force it upon us...set one against another...blame others,
| blame cultures, blame religions...create their "satan" to which to fight...
I would be interested how history-books in thousand years explain all this.
["Star people ...... How much is enough?"]
You know many lyrics by heart?! :)
| [ "Star People", George Micheal...is the world really run by uncaring
| parents and schoolyard bullies, teasing and making people feel "half
| made"? Are we looking at the butterfly wings that creates the tornado
| of our "civilisation"? Probably...which seems so miraculous and quite,
| quite ridiculous all at the same time :) ]
Only the thinking may be aware, but there are just a few....
| > Yes, words can be used to describe emotions as well,
| > even (or even due) many detours and the creation of abstract combinations.
| "As well"? You're quite right but I think you're getting the
| priorities mixed up...
No, I had the non-verbal 'language' on top of my mind.
Faces and "body-language" can tell more precise about emotions than any words.
| words almost certainly came about to describe
| emotions and it was an "accidental bonus" that allowed us to also use
| them to write histories and explain the inner workings of clever
| inventions...after all, what are the first words anyone speaks?
| "Mama!!" or "Dada!!"...pure emotion, really, as nothing is actually
| being said...yet it says everything that the parent could ever want to
| hear...pure emotion...later on, the child will grow to talk about
| all those minor things we busy our days with...
Right, and we almost lost the ability to communicate without words.
| > But how would Intel's doc read in that form:
| >
| > Below the canopy of the 168 pins, there housed an almost dead sand-glass.
| > After some centuries passed, a wealthy but greedy knight kissed it back into life...
| Granted, a technical reference is no place for emotion or philosophy...
| it needs to be simply factual to deliver its content to
| the reader...though, if there was the "technical" version for actually
| getting facts, I don't know about you but I'd Love to hear the
| "poetic" version afterward...remember, nothing inherently is "better"
| or "worse" (which our King couldn't see), that opinions get in the way
| when we want facts but if we'd rather opinions and emotions,
| the "poetic" version would be a fantastic read...you've only written two
| lines but I'd just Love to hear the rest of this "manual"...hehehe :)
So finally I'll end up as a poem-author?
This would need 'some' improvement of my English.
Perhaps a target after "the CPU", when in retirement... :)
| Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
| attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
| (whatever Hitler may have believed)...I've just been guilty of the
| very same thing that some people assume me American because I speak
| English...that is annoying, granted...I do apologise...
No need to, it wasn't meant "that" serious.
If Mr.Hitler's would have chosen to stay in Austria,
his maximal ranking were no more than a ordinary bachelor.
| ..English keep my notes short and clear.
| Fair enough; Though English is that "doubtfree" either...but, sure, if
| it's less doubtfree and practically shorter and you're happy with it, why not? :)
| Beth :)
__
wolfgang
wolfgang kern
"bv_schornak" replied:
---
I was aware to receive some protest-notes about my statement.
Of course it's a joke, but one of my favourites ones!
All of your history-listing seems to be correct,
including the "Bavarian Colony".
BTW: wasn't it king Gambrinus who invented/discovered the beer?
BUT, as the joke says, and as your list starts at 955 AD,
I repeat more detailed:
at times (2000 B.C.) when my ancestors (pre-celtic) buried (ceremonial) their kings,
the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
Julius Caesar allies with the Celts against the Barbarians in the north.
Goethe: "es ist noch keine 400 Jahre her da man uns "die Barbaren" nannte".
The "Bavaraustria" sounds good and we got a lot of aristos around here,
but there are already attempts to reinreign the Austria-Hungary monarchy.
So the name of the new kingdom would be "Boarisch K&K" then.
Spass muas sei! (Bavarian: declare fun as a rule)
servas (Viennese: general greeting form)
__
wolfgang (the long forgotten hall-miner)TM :)
PS1: hall is an rather old word for salt.
PS2: and Yes, Bavarians aren't Germans either,
Hanibal came from the south! :)
Pavel Srubar
> > Although, yes, where is debs? She's now not posted for quite a long
> I'm worried about Debs, too. The very last I heard from her was a
> message to nasm-devel on July 5th, in which she said:
> > ... I've got people coming over for the weekend (that's so rare that
> > I'm gonna make the most of it - party time :)
I googled for "ahve" and found a post from her on July 7th
in alt.os.development. It must have been a really wild party,
apparently they danced over her keyboard:
> Thanks. I've done that on my local copy now, and will have the
> corrected copy uploaded later. I'll be surprised if that's the only
> typo in there, watt with this darn keybroad rewiring evrything I
> rite...
> Debs http://debs.future.easyspace.com/
Bye,
v
Sr.
luvr
> "Zealand", of course, being a word borrowed from Dutch into the
> English language...and the Maoris give us "haka", "kiwi" and "moa"
> apparently...indeed, "hi!" to all the Southern Hemisphere countries
> that I left out (merely for brevity, I do stress :)...always wondered,
> though, where's "Old Zealand"?
Well, since "Zealand" was borrowed from Dutch, the "old" Zealand must be the
province of "Zeeland," in the south-east of The Netherlands... "Zee" being
the Dutch word for what's called "Sea" in English, small wonder that the
province is right next to the sea--the Northsea, to be precise.
--Luc.
bv_schornak
>BTW: wasn't it king Gambrinus who invented/discovered the beer?
>
I thought, it was Koenig Pilsener? (Koenig = king)
Beer was brewed from the "Land of the Bee" up to the "Big Green One" (=
ancient Egypt) for millenia, before the Europeans managed to steal the
receipt from the Per Ao (= big building)!
>BUT, as the joke says, and as your list starts at 955 AD,
>I repeat more detailed:
>at times (2000 B.C.) when my ancestors (pre-celtic) buried (ceremonial) their kings,
>the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
>
I didn't find any usable data about the leisure activities of ancient
Europeans, e.g. sitting on trees, enjoying the TV (= top view) - but I
still have my doubts about the "kings":
Between the Cro Magnon and Celtic times, Europe wassparsely populated.
The settlements were "scattered" throughout the landscape, wherever the
presence of water and fertile soil or mineral resources (-> Hallstadt)
was given. The relations between the settlements were very loose. There
were local chieftains, but no kings or rulers of a greater amount of
settlements (should be valid for _entire_ Central Europe during the
Bronze Age). A lively exchange of cultural development between all parts
of Central Europe existed - for example the varying forms of ceramics
(pottery) and its decoration or the jewellery. Development wasn't
concentrated in one place!
Rulers and kings came up with the Celtic takeover, because the Celts
brought an "organized" society along with other "improvements".
>Julius Caesar allies with the Celts against the Barbarians in the north.
>
Did he? The only thing I know is that there were many "Keltenschanzen"
(Celtic entrenchments) near "Roemerkastellen" (Roman fortified settlings
for troops and tax-collectors along the Limes Wall). Could be, that they
didn't trust each other too much... :)
>Goethe: "es ist noch keine 400 Jahre her da man uns "die Barbaren" nannte".
>
Coming around a lot, I agree with the term "Barbarians" for all
"Preissn". If you go into a restaurant and have a meal, the "art of
cooking" - and thus the quality of the meal - decreases with the
increase of the distance to the "Weisswurstaequator". In Austria,
Bavaria, Swabia and Switzerland you get the best meals compared against
the remainding Central Europe (my personal taste). IMO "the art of
cooking" is an important part of culture!
The definition for "Preissn" is "_any_ non-Bavarian" (German =
"Preussen", English = "Prussians").
"Weisswurstaequator" is the virtual border between Bavaria and "Outside"
(= "Prussia").
Following my own logic ... oops ... Goethe was a Barbarian?
>The "Bavaraustria" sounds good and we got a lot of aristos around here,
>but there are already attempts to reinreign the Austria-Hungary monarchy.
>So the name of the new kingdom would be "Boarisch K&K" then.
>
Sounds much better than "Bavaraustria" (darn - it took me several weeks
to invent this artificial term :( )!
>PS2: and Yes, Bavarians aren't Germans either,
>
Yo, that's it! ;)
> Hanibal came from the south! :)
>
His last descendant's (Moammar El-Ghaddafi) big problem: How to collect
that much elephants?
Greetings from Augsburg ("Augusta Vindelicum", founded by "Caesar"
Augustus in the year 15 B.C.)
Bernhard Schornak
wolfgang kern
"bv_schornak" replied:
| I wrote:
| >BTW: wasn't it king Gambrinus who invented/discovered the beer?
| I thought, it was Koenig Pilsener? (Koenig = king)
:) des güdd nua auf da wisn (Bavarian: this is valid during "October" only)
| Beer was brewed from the "Land of the Bee" up to the "Big Green One" (=
| ancient Egypt) for millenia, before the Europeans managed to steal the
| receipt from the Per Ao (= big building)!
Have you ever tried Egyptian beer?
Tastes like greasy tea.. ..you wont call that a beer.
| >BUT, as the joke says, and as your list starts at 955 AD,
| >I repeat more detailed:
| >at times (2000 B.C.) when my ancestors (pre-celtic) buried (ceremonial) their kings,
| >the "Barbarians" sat still on the trees :)
| I didn't find any usable data about the leisure activities of ancient
| Europeans, e.g. sitting on trees, enjoying the TV (= top view) - but I
| still have my doubts about the "kings":
| Between the Cro Magnon and Celtic times, Europe wassparsely populated.
| The settlements were "scattered" throughout the landscape, wherever the
| presence of water and fertile soil or mineral resources (-> Hallstadt)
| was given. The relations between the settlements were very loose. There
| were local chieftains, but no kings or rulers of a greater amount of
| settlements (should be valid for _entire_ Central Europe during the
| Bronze Age). A lively exchange of cultural development between all parts
| of Central Europe existed - for example the varying forms of ceramics
| (pottery) and its decoration or the jewellery. Development wasn't
| concentrated in one place!
| Rulers and kings came up with the Celtic takeover, because the Celts
| brought an "organized" society along with other "improvements".
Agreed, but visit Hallstadt and see the 'chieftains' tombs.
| >Julius Caesar allies with the Celts against the Barbarians in the north.
| Did he? The only thing I know is that there were many "Keltenschanzen"
| (Celtic entrenchments) near "Roemerkastellen" (Roman fortified settlings
| for troops and tax-collectors along the Limes Wall). Could be, that they
| didn't trust each other too much... :)
He did (at least some Latin papers say so),
but correct, this alliance didn't last too long.
| >Goethe: "es ist noch keine 400 Jahre her da man uns "die Barbaren" nannte".
| Coming around a lot, I agree with the term "Barbarians" for all
| "Preissn". If you go into a restaurant and have a meal, the "art of
| cooking" - and thus the quality of the meal - decreases with the
| increase of the distance to the "Weisswurstaequator". In Austria,
| Bavaria, Swabia and Switzerland you get the best meals compared against
| the remainding Central Europe (my personal taste). IMO "the art of
| cooking" is an important part of culture!
*
| The definition for "Preissn" is "_any_ non-Bavarian" (German =
| "Preussen", English = "Prussians").
| "Weisswurstaequator" is the virtual border between Bavaria and "Outside"
| (= "Prussia").
*) this are the points!
Quality of meals, beer and coffee determines the standard of a culture!
| Following my own logic ... oops ... Goethe was a Barbarian?
Seems he found out by himself....
| >The "Bavaraustria" sounds good and we got a lot of aristos around here,
| >but there are already attempts to reinreign the Austria-Hungary monarchy.
| >So the name of the new kingdom would be "Boarisch K&K" then.
| Sounds much better than "Bavaraustria" (darn - it took me several weeks
| to invent this artificial term :( )!
:)
| >PS2: and Yes, Bavarians aren't Germans either,
| Yo, that's it! ;)
| > Hanibal came from the south! :)
| His last descendant's (Moammar El-Ghaddafi) big problem: How to collect
| that much elephants?
Not needed anymore, 100 heavy trucks per minute haunt the Alps now,
mostly(I)and(D).
| Greetings from Augsburg ("Augusta Vindelicum", founded by "Caesar"
| Augustus in the year 15 B.C.)
|
| Bernhard Schornak
You know much more about history than me.
It wasn't my favorite during school at all.
I'm afraid we are already far in the OT-area with our story,
but as the reference mentions a "Queen".....
__
wolfgang
bv_schornak
Obligatory short article (278 pages) about Maat-ka-ra (known as
Hats(c)hepsut), *Queen* of the both Empires:
...jabber, jabber...
____________________
wolfgang kern wrote:
>[snip] ...visit Hallstadt and see the 'chieftains' tombs.
>
Studied an article about that (see link given below)... :)
>Quality of meals, beer and coffee determines the standard of a culture!
>
Agreed! Great definition! Best published under the terms of the LGPL -
hurry, somebody could steal it...
>Not needed anymore, 100 heavy trucks per minute haunt the Alps now,
> mostly(I)and(D).
>
You forgot the 1.66667 heavy trucks (A) per second :D ... watch out for
the white flash -> [A - TC 985]!
>You know much more about history than me.
>
Try <http://www.archaeologie-online.de/>, then you know the same! ;) I
know much more about ancient Egypt than about European history...
Greetings from Augsburg (back to serious work ... recoding some stuff)
Bernhard Schornak
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> >Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
> >attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
> >(whatever Hitler may have believed)...
> >
>
> Wow - who did write your history books?
The victors, of course...they always write the history books, so I'm
told...
> [Hitler]
> Mr. Adolf Hitler was born in Braunau am Inn as the son of a Jew and
his
> (Austrian) housekeeper. Braunau was (and still is) a town in
Austria.
> Thus, Mr. Adolf Hitler was a native Austrian! ;)
That, actually, was my exact point; Hitler was Austrian and, even
more, has Jewish ancestry...as well as being short, black haired, dark
eyed and, apparently, having quite severe sexual and health
problems...the side comment there was meant specifically as a nasty
jibe against Hitler because his "preachings" were vile, factually
incorrect, utterly hypocritical (he was distinctly "non-Ayrian"
himself) and, simply, I think deserves to be insulted and poked fun
at, at every available opportunity...
Just to clarify, the comment was meant specifically just to insult
Nazi "philosophy" because it's vile, factually incorrect and, in
Hitler's case, was completely hypocritical...nothing else was meant to
be implied there...
> [Nazis]
> Austria "merged" with Germany by the "free" will of the Austrians
(the
> German _and_ Austrian Nazis put the government of Schuschnigg under
> pressure, until he was leaving his place for the _Austrian_ Nazi
> Seiss-Inquart). There was no war, both countries merged by contract.
Not
> to forget, that a markable part of the Austrian people were hailing
> Hitler, too - same as the Germans did...
>
> [Roots]
> We should leave the facts as they are. Austria - of course - is an
own
> state, but we shouldn't deny, that they are part of the German
tribes
> with roots in Bavaria. This has nothing to do with past, current or
> future borders - Austria was an own kingdom (and later an empire)
since
> 1273. :)
Actually, you're right...Austria has roots in the same Germanic tribes
that are in Germany...so, Hitler's not wrong to claim that "Ayrian"
business with regard to "roots" but as "Germany" is strictly the name
of a political border that has no real relation to any ancient
Germanic roots, he'd be wrong to claim to be "German"...one has to be
careful of the wording here because "Germania" (ancient place roughly
where Germany is that Austrians and Germans and others historically
come from) is not the same thing as modern "Germany"...
That, in fact, is the reason why such arguments - especially when
leveled as reasons for intolerance - are dangerous and easy to get
muddled up with...for example, there is much "Germanic" blood in
America...and in more ways than one (direct immigration from Germany
or Austria being the most obvious way :) because, for example, some of
the Celts originate from a place which is where the Western edge of
Germany now is...and a Germanic influence is in the English language
by no coincidence because it travelled along with the wandering
peoples...that is, even if you're an American who has Irish or English
"blood", you certainly cannot rule out any Germanic influence...
And, again, though people often talk in such simple terms, it's,
really, a case that the geography has little relation to the political
borders which has little relation to the actual peoples...words like
"English", "German", "French", "Celtic", "Oriental" are
simplifications in truth and this must be remembered...which I
consider to be the final nail in the coffin of any "genetic purity"
bullcrap that people like the Nazis tried to pretend was a valid,
(psuedo-)scientific thing...sorry, there isn't any "genetic purity"
_anywhere_ and the labels of "English", "Celtic", "German", "French"
are just that - _labels_...simplifications, arbitrary political
borders, etc....granted, different countries speak different languages
and have different laws but that's to be expected...laws follow
political borders, wherever they are placed...and, as for
language...well, it's no coincidence that - except for modern America
and Australia, where things had become advanced enough that they could
literally just draw straight lines on a map (which proves how
"abitrary" things really are...if the map maker had moved a little
over when drawing the lines, someone who considers themselves a Texan
today would have actually been from Louisiana ;) - the borders all
follow the local terrain...in other words, big mountain ranges and
large rivers and such kept people away from each other that the
languages people spoke all diverged...but, really, most Europeans are
actually speaking one of the innumerable modern variations of "New
Latin" (which is only the base because of the Roman Empire running
around conquering everywhere :)...all defined by the will of a few
tyrannical dictators and where the mountains, seas and rivers happened
to be in relation to where such people found themselves...
Of course, this is not to say that there's no reason to make claim to
being French or whatever...nor is it any reason to say that people
shouldn't recognise their roots and, yes, be proud of their
"forefathers"...but I would stress that it has to be put into context
and the "solidity" (there isn't much) of these mostly political labels
has to be recognised too...that is, sure, be proud to be English or
American or Austrailian or German or French...but its wider context
has to be remembered and it should stop short when it starts to turn
into an excuse for intolerance, hatred and war...when "arrogance" and
"superiority" and other things that have no grounds whatsoever
_pollute_ simple partriotism of being proud of where you come from...
That is, "Patriotism is the Love of one's country, _NEVER_ the hatred
of another"...if an English football supporter shouts over to the
German supporters with insults, is that patriotism? Is that supporting
his country? NO, IT'S NOT...it is just intolerance and
hatred...patriotism and support would be to shout how you Love your
team and your country...after all (substituting the countries to what
applies to you, of course ;), you can shout "Germany is crap!" all you
like but until you say "England is great!", you have NOT been
"Patriotic" or "supportive" whatsoever...the difference should be
obvious but so many don't or can't see it...
Taking things to a more political level, is Bush or Blair being
"patriotic" in completely ignoring domestic affairs (both seem to be
terrible domestic leaders...which might explain why they are so intent
on waging wars) and bombing other countries out of existence? Let's
say, for pure argument, they wipe out the entire rest of the world -
completely, innocent or not, leaving no-one but Westerners behind -
that's guaranteed to put an end to Bin Laden, Saddam and any others
out there, right? WRONG! People like Timothy McVeigh will still pose a
threat and constant fear, even if there were no "foreigners" doing
anything out there...those anthrax attacks were traced to an internal
source (and, interestingly, have not been mentioned since...is anyone
still looking into this to make sure it can't happen again?)...the
Irish in the IRA - who bomb Britain - are "civilised" Westerners as
those they are killing...
Really, casting "satan" to be "elsewhere" - some "foreign" threat - is
such an easy way for these leaders to also "cast out" their internal
domestic responsibilities...public: "Mr.Bush, our economy is in
disarray...your policies are ruining such-and-such...what are you
going to do about it?" Mr.Bush: "There is an 'axis of evil'...I will
go on a 'crusade' to foreign lands to crush 'satan'...it is in
America's interests that her leader completely ignores her people's
problems (and people will buy this because, yes, 'satan' attacking is
a dangerous threat...but the reaction equal to the threat? Now,
there's a question that is open to debate and serious thought)"...
Check your history books; The old Kings and Queens of ancient times
also used to send out their soldiers on bold "crusades" whenever they
needed better PR ratings...a common enemy unites the people, you
see...even tempts them to temporarily forget about their own troubles,
if they can be convinced that there is a direct threat to them
immediately...thus, poor leaders have constantly used common enemies
to unite the people...not through any great skill or good leadership
but by simply scaring your own people to believe there is a greater
threat than there is...and, well, I'm wondering how many times "common
enemies" have actually been invented to disguise poor leadership...I
can't say for certain that this has ever happened but, well, if I can
think of it, so can our "great" leaders (because, to be honest, they
are much more qualified than some "interested amateur" like me in
these games and tricks)...
Is this what's happening? I honestly can't tell
you...perhaps...perhaps not...but it has to be considered...just in
case...increasingly, Orwell's warnings seem more and more realistic...
"Sweet dreams are made of this...
Who am I to disagree?
I travel the world
And the seven seas --
Everybody's looking for something.
Some of them want to use you...
Some of them want to get used by you.
Some of them want to abuse you...
Some of them want to be abused.
Sweet dreams are made of this...
Who am I to disagree?"
[ "Sweet Dreams (are made of this)", Eurythmics...for the soundtrack
of the film version of "1984" ]
> Sorry, but I can't read such things without writing a "clarifying"
> comment (to give a fair view of Germany)... ;)
Indeed; You do that...I wasn't meant to be misleading or giving
incorrect information or anything...it was merely a "throw away" side
comment to poke ridicule at Nazi "philosophy"...which, by the way, is
now no longer open to any question because the Human Genome Project
has put the matter to rest once and for all...it's possible to find
_greater_ genetic variation inside a race than there is between
them...a _fact_ taking from the very genes themselves...you can
genetically share more in common with someone on the other side of the
world than some people in your own country...so, all those who
subscribe to some Nazi "genetic purity" philosophy are simply
_wrong_...basically, genes were just the new peg - because everybody
implicitly "trusts" science - on which to hang ancient
intolerances...science finally finished looking into the details and
all that stuff is not only morally, socially and logically wrong, it's
been demonstrated beyond doubt to be _factually_ wrong too...as, even
today, some youngsters are tempted and mislead by such lies, I think
it always deserves a place to point these things out and how such
things are just _intolerance_ and have NO basis in any actual
facts...like I say, people tend to just "trust" science implicitly and
neo-Nazis know this that they also tend to pretend there is a genetic
basis for what is actually just their own twisted, _personal_ hatred
and intolerance...so, it's never out of place to repeat the case that
it's all "psuedo-science" and has no basis in fact, as well as being
utterly vile and objectionable on moral, social, personal,
philosophical, etc. grounds too...in short, _everything_ about
intolerance is wrong and any illusion given that there is any grounds
in fact is just that...an illusion, a confidence trick, slight of hand
with the science...in short, complete lies...
Beth :)
Beth
> Beth answered:
> [...]
> | Oh dear; I stress I never "told" nor "advised" nor "asked"...
>
> Ok, Ok, I just reviewed my alt.os archive.
> And I confirm you never said something like this literally.
> I may have interpreted your 'flags' between the lines as advice.
Sorry; I know you didn't mean to be nasty or anything in how you
interpreted things and wrote that I had "advised" you...but,
understand, I had to stress - as you can now see - that I _wasn't_
"telling", "advising", "asking" or anything but merely stating a few
things...just to clarify, I'm not upset or offended or anything but I
do have to stress this so that people - who haven't looked back on the
archives - can appreciate what you now confirm that I wasn't actually
"advising" when I said those things...of course, if you personally
want to treat it like "advice", sure, I don't mind...it also wasn't
"non-advice" or "anti-advice" either...
Sorry, sorry; I am being a bit pendantic here...but I just don't want
people to miscontrue what I did actually say or get mislead about
it...then, as now, I'm trying to be mostly "informative" (leaving the
"interpretation" to others :) and, actually, did try to write it in
such a way as not to "lead" anyone in either direction on the matter
(though, of course, merely mentioning something (or, alternatively,
neglecting something that should also have been said) is a form of
"leading" but that's unavoidable :)...
As I say, I'm not really making a fuss because I'm upset or this
matters all that much to me...I was just stressing the point to make
sure that the "record is straight", so to speak, so that others
reading get the correct view of what I said...of course, out of my
hands (as I was delibrately trying to set up) is other people's
interpretation of what I said but, again, that's unavoidable (but not
necessarily a bad thing :)...and, to be honest, it's not really much
of an issue that it matters a bean whether you want to think of it as
"advice" or not...do what you like there, it's all pretty much the
same...
Actually, the real reason I felt the need to stress this is because
Maxim - in one of his usual arguments against me - slipped in a
comment that I found grossly misrepresentational when he implied that
I was "against America" or something...few things could be further
from the truth...as should be clear, the only things I tend to be
"against" is intolerance, bullying, slavery, neglect, pain, torture,
murder, etc. and that applies to _anyone_ on the face of this
planet...thus, I'm ever bit 100% behind America (its people) but that
does not equate that I'm behind American administration (the policies
of its government)...and the comments regarding business practices
that I've frequently made are not against "American" business practice
because, simply, American businesses are NOT the only culprits...it's
just "coincidence", so to speak, that the businesses who tend to be
the worst at these things are American...were MS from Japan or Russia
or the Netherlands or anywhere else and were still doing what they are
doing, I'd have the exact same opinion, which has NOTHING to do with
the purely arbitrary fact that Bill Gates just happened to be an
American and set up MS in America primarily...
Thus, having been so grossly misrepresented by Maxim there, implying
almost the complete opposite of what's true about me, I suppose I was
a touch "sensitive" to any other "misrepresentation" of what I've said
before...as I say, just "setting the record straight" and that's all
:)...
> | Really, not a word of a lie, you've actually _expressed_ yourself
in a
> | much better way than I because you're not encumbered by all the
> | "baggage" I carry...reading your words, people can get a true
feeling
> | of what you want to say...reading mine, in a sense, the "baggage"
is
> | limiting my expressive power, even if I have the "technical"
advantage...
>
> Thanks, perhaps it's due the lack of knowing all words by heart.
> As I use a reduced collection of terms my posts may be understood
easier.
I'd say it's mostly the first and only a very small amount of the
second...
I say this because the second point you make here that you have (one
assumes) a smaller vocabulary than a native English speaker makes it
"easier" to be understood could only really apply to other non-native
speakers who don't have a fuller vocabulary, if you think about
it...that is - accepting, of course, that no-one actually ever uses
the full extent of the vocabulary available to them (and, even being
"native speaking" might not know what all the words mean...playing
Scrabble(r) with someone who's a bit of a know-it-all often helps to
demonstrate a lack of knowledge where you didn't think there was a
problem when they put down words you've never heard of on the Scrabble
board...but, sure enough, they are in the dictionary...hehehe ;) - if
I have a reasonably large vocabulary of English then it matters not
how much of that vocabulary you use, I should know all of those
words...thus, in fact, if someone uses a smaller vocabulary like that,
it shouldn't make it any "easier" to a native speaker...if anything,
it'd make it "harder" because the limited vocabulary (combined with,
as you say, not knowing many "stock phrases" of the language off by
heart :) means you might come up with some odd ways of phrasing things
that, ironically, would end up confusing a native speaker but a
non-native speaker doesn't blink twice at them...I myself found this
to be the case when I went aboard and lived elsewhere for a while,
came back to England and then watched a non-native speaker try to talk
to native English speakers...I found myself completely unphased by the
"odd" choices of words and the more "descriptive" way of using the
language but the others around me really looked totally stumped and
claimed they couldn't understand him at all...the problem there, in
fact, was nothing to do with the size of the vocabulary or even
grammar or anything but actually all to do with the "culture"
surrounding a language...I'd been away and had got used to people
speaking English but without that "culture" element so I found no
problems listening to that...but everyone else seemed totally confused
by what was, I'd say, a sort of "descriptive" way of phrasing
things...that is, not knowing that there is actually a single word or
"stock phrase" that sums up what they want to say, the non-native
speaker was using other words to "describe" what he wanted to say
instead...
For instance, "off by heart" is an English "stock phrase"...but if
someone didn't know this, then someone might try to say something like
"I have not practiced these words over and over until I have become
familiar with it in my brain" instead...note that there's a difference
in the choice of human organ there...and that most simple difference
could be enough to throw a native English speaker off-track...because,
in the "culture" of the English language, it is the _heart_ that holds
what modern science will actually tell you is really in the
_subconscious mind_ inside the brain...luckily, though, there are
similarities in most languages that the heart holds Love and
friendship and happiness and stuff that it's still "mostly safe" to
use these things but it's not guaranteed...
So, as I say, it's actually interesting that I truely do find some
things far better expressed sometimes by people with a "lack of
knowledge" because that actually assists in stopping people from
"being lazy" and using the first "stock phrase" that springs to mind
(like I do all the time :)...rather they "describe" it more and that
often gives a better idea of what someone wants to express than what a
native speaker would actually come up with...although, of course, this
isn't always the case and, sometimes, a lack of vocabulary _is_ a
large hinderance...but, in my experience, it's not really that easy to
"classify" things as simplistically as "full vocabulary = good
expression, limited vocabulary = bad expression"...there's simply too
many variables involved in language and human interaction for such a
simplistic "linear" relationship between the two to exist with much
solidity...and, truely, on the odd rare occasion, I've heard what's
almost profound poetry come from a person's "limited" vocabulary,
where I only hear re-hashed nonsense coming from native speakers...
Drawing on my library of "stock phrases", there is, of course, the
phrase "from the mouths of babes..." which mentions how sometimes a
child's "lack of knowledge" can give them amazing insights into
something that adults simply can't see...the adults - to use another
"stock phrase" - "can't see the wood for the trees" and are too close
to the problem or too involved in the issue to see it with that same
clarity that the child sees it...though, of course, not that I'm
saying that non-native speakers are "children" (other negative
semantics associated with calling someone a child, like "immature",
which I don't mean to imply here at all :)...but there is that same
"lack of knowledge" in a particular area that, effectively, gives
children and non-native speakers a "different set of eyes" to the
native speakers...they are on a different "level"...
And though Einstein was actually talking about "raising" your level to
find a solution (paraphrased: "often, a solution can only be found on
a higher level of thinking to the level at which the problem was
diagnosed" :), it can apply in "reverse", so to speak, to also work
for a "lack of knowledge" as well as for a greater knowledge...either
way, it puts you in a different "mindset" and thinking on a "different
level", as Einstein mentioned, that it can give you insights that are
simply not possible on some other "level of thinking"...this, in a
sense, is what I often stumble into, when listening to non-native
speaker trying to express something that's not really in the range of
the vocabulary they have...they "improvise" with what words they do
know and, sometimes, that minor little "twist" in perspective...the
use of another word that's not normally used that makes you realise a
realtionship or something you've never seen before...as I say,
sometimes a "lack of knowledge" can actually _feed_ the ability to
reach wisdoms that those with knowledge keeping missing because, yes,
we think in our native languages so these "stock phrases" and the
"culture" of a language really does effect - as Orwell suggested
rightly with his fictious "NewSpeak" language - how we think and even
what we are capable of thinking...
For example, when I encountered some "minor" German words like "doch"
or "egal" or other untranslateable words (well, not literally or
directly translateable...you can give the rough "impression" of what
the words mean but there's no direct equivalents and, always, any
English description looses the subtle uses of such words :), I
couldn't help run into situations that made me think "how on Earth did
I manage without words like this before?"...I know, for instance, that
some other languages lack some of the words I use all the time (or, at
least, again, lack a direct equivalent that I can't just do a 1:1
translation of the English :)...I honestly don't think I could cope
too well with a language that lacks "basically", "just", "anyway", "so
to speak", etc. because I abuse these words almost every sentence I
speak...they are just way too handy...doch? Ach, es ist egal,
"anyway"...
> | ...but, simply, there was an opportunity to make a joke out of it
> | and I can _never_ resist such temptations...one of my many
failings :)
>
> Nothing wrong with your sense of humour, reading parameters only is
boring.
Oh, there is something wrong with my humour in the personal sense that
it means I'm pretty twisted in places...but, yes, you're right, "a
change is as good as a rest", "variety is the spice of life", "all
work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" and an entire army of other
English "stock phrases" and idioms...though, for the exact same
reasons, not every thread should turn into a political debate as that
would be just as "uniform" and, eventually, "boring" as if every post
was just "reading parameters"...so, yes, those who claim do have every
right to...especially when they're prefectly correct that newsgroups
do have "topics" - which do serve a very useful purpose to everyone in
helping us find the information we need - that, though a digression is
good for the soul, I know that, at least, I really have to remember to
re-focus on the matter at hand from time to time or it just turns into
"pointless wandering"...which reminds me, in fact, of an oriental
"stock phrase" (though, I've only met its "translated to English" form
because I don't speak any of the oriental langauges...although, I've
always liked the "look" of Japanese and the experience of using a
completely different (semi-)ideographic language but that's another
matter :)...
"There is no power without restraint"; Or, in other words, I've got to
learn to discipline myself to be more focussed at times because I
really, really do "wander" and get easily distracted...currently, my
worst failing, in my opinion (and partly one of the reasons why I've
not been posting quite so much lately because I'm - hopefully not in
vain - trying to discipline myself to get more into a "routine" about
things so that I end up doing as much work as I know I'm capable
of...I'm actually a pretty fast coder - to almost match how I can
produce all this verbal nonsense in these posts, in fact - but, as you
all know, the "BethTool" is woefully "behind schedule"...and, no, it's
not any sort of "losing interest"...still as determined to finish it
as I've always been...the problem in my case is the very weird
"gaining interest"...that is, something else comes along and I too
easily let myself get distracted...for instance - though not the only
case - I see a post on here about something and then use up precious
hours where I should be coding on answering other people's posts...and
"multi-tasking" isn't much of a problem - I'm okay at that - it's the
effects of multi-tasking (dividing the time so much that none of the
task is getting enough of a timeslice to put it in computing terminolo
gy :) that's the problem...anyway, this is yet another "pointless
distraction" and you probably don't care and telling you about this
doesn't actually help me out...but, well, "it's good to talk" as
British Telecom have as their slogan...in "saying" it aloud (well,
writing it aloud...whatever :), it's one more way to hopefully help me
to focus on what I should be doing...quite ironic, really, I tend to
be a "victim" of what _should_ be my own "strengths" :)...
> | > [political abuse of words]
> | > unfortunately right.
>
> | But think what exactly that means if Shakespeare - hundreds of
years
> | previously - can write something that has an element of accuracy,
>
> Accuracy? I agree for a few hundred years consecutive culture,
> but if I look at the many different interpretations of the 'Holy
Bible',
> it could have been just a newspaper (with similar truth-value in
it).
> Without a living trace (regular written literature) we have no
chance
> to interpret the perhaps 'fine tuned sayings' there today.
Oh, indeed; I certainly wouldn't class Shakespeare as the only source
of such things...but he has the advantage because he's "recent" enough
that - though not always easy going and some things do pass straight
over your head - he's using an English that's mostly recognisable to a
modern English reader...his advantage, in fact, is that there is more
or less a "living trace" still in existence that not all the "fine
tuned sayings" are missing (in fact, many of Shakespeare's sayings
have even managed to lock themselves into modern English itself to be
secured a future as secure as English itself...many of the "stock
phrases" used in English are actually direct quotes from Shakespeare
:)...
But, for sure, there are probably things even more ancient that have
just as much, if not more, wisdoms to give us...but with the
distortion and changing of languages over time, many of the
significances are lost or easily missed (for instance, many people use
the "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than
a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" and I used it just like
everyone else...then I saw a TV show (I watch a lot of TV...hehehe :)
where a language expert actually pointed out that, though the phrase
stands on its own merits, there are also "cultural" references in
it...the gates to a city were colloquially called the "eye of the
needle" (being so small in the city's large walled defences) and, of
course, rich men would travel to cities with their possessions on the
back of their camel...and, generally, a person coming to a city was
given no choice but to dismount their camel - to, in a sense,
"prioritise" themselves over their possessions and, at least
temporarily, abandon them - to "pass through the eye of a
needle"...thus, with the added "culture" of the phrases added, you can
see an even more clear image of what the Bible is trying to say
there...as it were, it's saying something like "to pass into the
'city' of Heaven, you _must_ get off your camel and leave your
possessions...we do not allow you to bring your camels in with
you"...a "no camels allowed" sign hanging on the Gates of Heaven to
give it a more familiar modern image...plus, of course, the usual way
of thinking about the impossibility of threading a camel through
something as small as the eye of a needle does still stand and would
be the "second meaning" behind the phrase...with a modern ear, when
you first hear it, you'd be forgiven in wondering what camels have got
to do with anything...I mean, why not "it is easier to thread an
elephant through the eye of a needle..."? Elephants would be even more
difficult because they are bigger...but, thanks to this language
"expert" on the TV show, I know why it's a camel because it actually
relates to what was completely common stuff at the time about
dismounting your camel to get through a city's gates...
And, yes, this really does beg the question: "What, though, about all
those bits of language and culture that haven't survived? The things
that even our best 'experts' on these things know nothing about
because they've been totally lost, possibly for all time?"...and,
really, I suppose all we can do is wonder at how much wisdom are in
these old texts that, with the passing of time and all the many
translations (and with every translation - just like in
Thermodynamics - there's always going to be some sort of "loss of
information"), is right there in front of us (so to speak) but we
can't read it...other interesting things people have pointed out over
the years: the word "Word" (such as "In the beginning there was the
Word") is only one of many translations available from the original
text's language...it could also be "spirit", "essence" and things like
that...when it says "firmament" does it really mean _literally_ "sky"
and / or "Heaven" (especially as the dual "sky" / "Heaven"
intrepretation is an English semantic...like "off by heart", you can
also say "Heavens" when you mean "sky"...and did or didn't the person
who translated it to English account for this or not in choosing their
words? They might have done or they might not have...and, certainly,
over such a large set of texts, there's bound to be plenty of "poor
translation judgement" involved with some choices so we can't be
sure - short of doing the translation ourselves too - that they've
translated it in the same way we would have done...made worse in the
case of the Bible because it's _full_ of analogy, parable, metaphor,
etc. which tend to be the hardest things to translate competently
because a directly translated metaphor can, depending on the languages
involved, be anything from "perfectly okay" to "complete nonsensical
gibberish"...as mentioned before, the "off by heart" can be translated
directly and most people can appreciate what it means, _if_ the
"culture" of their language is one that attributes "instinctual
knowledge" to be stored in the heart...if it isn't, then a direct
translation of "off by heart" would seem complete gibberish)...then,
entering highly contravertial terroritory, some have pointed out that
the word for "virgin", also could just mean "young women", "maiden"
and, thus, this has caused a _large_ debate and contraversy over
whether the Bible is actually telling us that Jesus was an "immaculate
conception" or not...obviously, such a massive change is highly
contravertial for the Church because it would go on to throw doubt
over what Jesus meant when He said "I am the Son of God"...in short,
this one translation and whether it's right or not is capable of
completely overthrowing how many Christians interpret their entire
religion...
Just one word and it can have this much effect! And one also wonders
how much of an effect the words "Jihad" and "Crusade" - used by bin
Laden and Bush repsectively - might have taken a bad situation and
only made it a hundred times worse (If bin Laden didn't call it
"Jihad" would he have so many supporters? If Bush hadn't called it a
"Crusade" would it have generated as much hatred and, also, generated
some people to think they are "Knights of the Round Table" doing
"good" in attacking innocent Muslim and Mosques...unfortunately, this
is another "we'll never know" situation because we can't ever know
what would have happened were either bin Laden or Bush not to have
used these words...but, again, they may only be single words but they
are _strong_ words, which build up people's opinions and
feelings...without "Jihad", bin Laden - even in his supporters' eyes -
would just be a man waging a personal war on America but, in adding
the word, some people start to believe it's a "religious duty" to
attack the West...without "Crusade" and "fighting an axis of evil",
would Westerners so easily accept what is often a grossly exaggerated
threat (a _real_ threat, without doubt, not to be downplayed...but the
language really does - like with bin Laden's language - imply that
this is a battle with "evil" and "satan" himself...yes, don't downplay
the threat but are we looking at a case of playing up the threat? The
IRA are an organised Western (thus, have access to Western levels of
technology, expertise and money) terrorist group who've bombed and
beaten and killed many more times than Al Queda have so far over many
decades (bin Laden, I would say, _is_ much worse because his attacks
are without warning and designed to kill as many people as
possible...plus, he has religious motivations that, one assumes, means
he won't give up or "change his mind" or anything...things the IRA
can't be accused of (religion is a "red herring" in Northern Ireland,
really...helps to "stir things up" but is not the actual reason why
it's happening), even if on other scores they are still calculating
murdering terrorists)...but the US smiled and shook hands with the IRA
and supported them...the point here being that simple words and deeds
somehow make the IRA bombing London almost "noble" (and it's a "fight
for freedom from the oppressive British")...and the Russians sit there
hearing "global war on terrorism" and are still wondering when the US
and the UK will help them with their terrorists...
Much like the sentiments of the American constituation, I agree with
the sentiments of "global war on terrorism" (who wouldn't? _Including_
the terrorists...because, yes, they mostly don't think of themselves
as "terrorists" but think of themselves as "freedom fighters" or
"soldiers for God" or something...in Northern Ireland, there are
"unionists" who shoot, beat and torture republicans in return and that
is _also_ terrorism...so it's not just "theory", the terrorists
themselves would also agree on a "global war on terrorism"...what is
never agreed is who are the "terrorists" and who are the "freedom
fighters")...but what is said and what is done don't always match
up...and who America thinks are "worthy" - quite naturally and
understandably from America's perspective are America's enemies
first - that "uniting" on this matter is far from easy because
no-one's really agreeing (except for "obvious" threats like bin Laden
or Saddam) on who's who...
And, certainly, Bush promised too much...a war on specific terrorists?
Sure, very difficult but do-able...a war on all terrorism for all
time? Sorry, as much as I'd Love to say differently, completely
impossible...and, definitely, you can't achieve that with guns and
bombs because that'll only breed the next generation of terrorists
because we've gone and given them a concrete reason to hate and
despise us that they will very much want to seek "revenge"...with
complete agreement and working flat out on it, we could manage, at
best, to stop some particular groups, hopefully try to take away any
reasons (if there are any) for terrorists to attack...that sort of
thing...but to eliminate all of it for all time? Sorry, I'd Love to
say different but it's impossible...even if you eliminated all poverty
on the face of planet Earth, it would only "minimise" it...the IRA and
Eta - both groups living and working in First World countries - prove
that, quite literally in many cases, it could be the person right next
door and it doesn't have to be about religions or between far-flung
countries...all it requires is some sort of real or perceived
"injustice" where the group who are the "victims" feel that they have
no other choices remaining...no other avenues to follow (or, with
someone like bin Laden, the "peace talks and compromise" alternative
is NOT on the agenda because it is such "systems" and all things
American that he has a problem with...just as we would not do in
return, he will NOT be making any deals with who he considers to be
"satan" himself)...
"Sticks and stones may break my bones,
But words can get you killed..."
[ Twisting of a child's rhyme so that it actually reflects the truth ]
> | naming the devices used even today by "half made kings"...he can
be so
> | accurate because he examines the human condition itself and it
never
> | changes, for all our "technologies" and "progress"...that men,
jealous
> | of the pleasures of another, will so often try to destroy it as
some
> | sort of "revenge"...but what also is clear is that it was Nature
that
> | made him "half made", not man...so, him and his clones since are
> | "punishing" the innocent - the Twin Towers, Afghanistan - for
_their
> | own failings_...in truth, it has nothing to do with any of us but
that
> | they would force it upon us...set one against another...blame
others,
> | blame cultures, blame religions...create their "satan" to which to
fight...
>
> I would be interested how history-books in thousand years explain
all this.
Yes, we'd be on page 175, listed as "yet more of the same; Excessive
orgies of self-indulgence financed on enforced poverty and slavery by
unintelligent, in-bred leaders who live priviledged lives that makes
them unable to comprehend the realities of their lives they are
responsible for...the excess continues until the civilisation
eventually implodes because it forgot about something as simple as
being self-maintaining"...comparisons are made to "the Roman Empire"
but, in a footnote at the bottom the page it notes: "with plastic and
electricity added"...a much more polished, minimalistic and smooth
look than even superbly sculpted marble pillars of Rome could never
achieve...
Without doubt, we'll be looked back on as greedy, short-sighted,
much-too-self-congratulatory simpletons...though, also, the humans of
that time will - much as some do right now to those of a thousand
years before us - find us to be all too eeriely familiar and so will
invent the same "we are more evolved because we have plastic gadgets"
lies as we do, in a vain attempt to try to pretend that something has
actually "advanced" when, in fact, our little gadgets may advance but
the human condition stands very much stock still and has done since
some proto-man with a backache tried some stretching to cure it and
decided that he preferred standing on two feet rather than scurrying
around on four...later on, with _food scarce_ and a lot of protein
required to keep our big brains operational, we do as the _rats_ now
do and learn to _scavenge_ whatever we can...beggers can't be
choosers...plants, animals, fish, etc....
And, consequently, climbing for forest areas, running for plains,
swimming and holding our breath for diving, etc. (needing to cover
such a vast area of different terrains and wander around because of
this "lack of available food"...at first, this "the universal general
purpose animal" thing about humans confused me until I realised that
all you needed was a scarcity of food...in such conditions, you are
left with little choice but to not only hunt and gather but to fish,
climb, run, dive, manipulate and process nigh-on any food...the
"experts" may choose different interpretations (I consider humans to
be "scavengers" - often using our new-found "intelligence" skill to be
clever about things and let other animals kill each other off before
entering the fray or just digging pits for them to fall down or making
spears that you can throw from a relatively safe distance and that
sort of "lateral thinking" approach because that _is_ how us humans
operate and savages running around with spears I'm sure happened on
occasion but that's too pseudo-Darwinist to me, thinking that because
these were people from the past that they "obviously" were moronically
stupid and charged into danger (but NO animal nor humans actually EVER
instinctually place themselves in danger without a _damn good reason_
that is true now as it must have been true then) - rather than the
very "politically correct" and polite-sounding "hunter /
gatherers"...nope, our closest relatives in spirit would be _rats_ -
intelligence-based scavenging for whatever we can find at the least
energy cost to us possible (which ties completely in with the fact
that we have big "intelligent" brains that, yes, require tons of
feeding to be kept operational...how best to deal with that
environment? Simple, use that intelligence to do the least possible
work to gain the most possible food :) - rather than the
ever-so-noble-but-frankly-unlikely-sounding comparisons to packs of
lions hunting...that sounds much more like being _ego-based_ than
fact-based to me ;) but, yes, I understand why they would wish to say
"hunter / gatherer" because it sounds "nice" and protects the image
and ego of the human race where "scavenger" tends to be considered an
insult...but this is the _only_ one that I can see explaining all of
humankind's "general purposeness" that evolution would favour us to
wander and attempt to tackle anything to eat practically
anything...and that, eventually, we would be the animals to work out
the perfect "enforced symbiotic" relationship of "domesticating" the
more harmless animals in farming...we give the animals what they need
to survive and multiply, protecting them from predators and feeding
them grass and stuff but it's "selfish altruism", of course, because,
in return for the "kindness" of looking after them, the cost is that
we get their hide and meat when we've fed them up enough...an enforced
twisted form of "symbiosis" but it works...planting crops is the same
concept but with plants, really...
Did you know that one interesting thing is required for speech that
is, in animal terms, an unusual ability...that is, humans can hold
their breath...it's such a simple thing that I'm sure most people
don't even consider how unusual that ability is...almost certainly,
it's all to do with swimming and diving - probably to pounce on the
poor unsuspecting fish and other sealife, not expecting an "ape" to
suddenly jump into the water to chase them down - which itself, is,
again, an unusual thing for humans to _need_ to do evolution-wise
_unless_, as I say, we look at this from this "general purpose"
perspective that humans developed to be "Jack of all trades, master of
none" (we can climb but we're not the best climbers, we can run but
we're not the fastest, we can swim but can't stay under the water
indefinitely...we do a little of most things but nothing to any
specialised extreme...except one thing...to try to outsmart things or
find ways to "hunt" that doesn't require actually expending any effort
or putting ourselves in too great a danger...and, that, as I say, is
_scavenger_ behaviour...and, yes, it's clever but it's also sneaky and
indiscriminating and a touch "unfair"...but, come on, is that not a
_real_ accurate description of human beings, even if it doesn't sound
quite as "nice" or "noble" as these lovely images of brave warriors
taking on lions with spears (and the bit about "picking berries"
doesn't really add up because we require stupidly large amounts of
food to keep ourselves and these big brains going that the arithmetic
doesn't add up...I mean, make a "community" in a forest somewhere and
actually give it a go...you'd spend 99% of your time pikcing berries
and probably would still have to give up the "experiment" because,
alone, it's not enough to sustain loads of humans over an extended
period of time...it'll keep you alive when there's no other option but
you've got to be more ambitious than that - as is characteristically
human to be ever so "over ambitious" in everything we do - for an
entire lifetime and large communities to not just live but have an
excess that they can go onto spending time perfecting axes and
knives...which, again, the experts reckon is hunting stuff - and,
again, I'm sure they were used in such things because, well, if it
works, why not? - but I reckon was probably more to do with "DIY" -
fence building, hut building, carving stone for buildings and also art
and amusement, etc....
Sorry; But when I hear the "experts" talk about this stuff, they seem
utterly convinced of some "primitive savages" idea of "uugh!" cavemen
attacking lions with spears...which appears to me so much like playing
these "primitives" down in order just to make us modern humans look so
much more "superior"...think I'm just being too "nice" and "kind" to
people of the past...actual _evidence_, though, supports me rather
than defeats me on this, though...the sort of evidence that I don't
think is being analysed properly...you have the pyramids which is
immense effort requiring incredible skills and amazing building and
mathematical knowledge...so good, in fact, it's even a mystery to us
modern "civilised" people how on Earth they did it (there are many
good theories but, again, all of them start with the notion "the
ancient Egyptians, 'obviously', were stupid...so, how did stupid
people put it together?" when I reckon the starting point is, as some
now are actually seriously considering and attempting, "the ancient
Egyptians _obviously_ were not stupid and had great building and
mathematical skills...how on Earth would we do it now, accepting that
you can't use any modern gadgets?" and, even then, allowing a modern
human to use any skill or knowledge they like, it's still incredibly
difficult and still open to debate and a mystery...
This, though, is only the most obvious example...they are also
increasingly digging up evidence that the "primitives" made quite a
lot of "art" with clever carving tools...and, putting a spear straight
through some of those "they were stupid" notions, they are finding
what must only be _musical instruments_ amongst even _proto-man_ (that
is, they aren't even human but one of our close relatives and even
they were artistic and musical, suggesting very much an intelligent
"community" kind of thing going on there :)...
Then, more and more, historians are noting how the pyramids - already
magnificient monuments - are even more clever than they first appear
as - plotted on a map - they form Orion's belt with the Nile as the
Milky Way...so, these projects were even bigger and more complex than
first imagined because they were being done with immense planning and
fore-thought...literally trying to recreate the Heavens on Earth with
some startling accuracy (the sizes of the pyramids, it has been
suggested with some good evidence to back it up, are in ratio to the
magnitude (brightness of a star) in the constellations they were
copying...raising questions, amongst other things, about how they
could measure things accurately enough to even do it, let alone how
and why)...or, they look at Stonehenge and think "yes, pretty stones
in a circle" but then someone notices that they are aligned to an
equinox...the mathematical and astronomical knowledge alone is beyond
what anyone can call "primitive", sorry...
The more evidence is uncovered, the clearer it becomes that we should
look to _Alfred Wallace_ - who didn't believe in Darwin's racist "we
are more evolved than these savage primitives" theories because, in
fact, he was out actually meeting them and getting to know about these
people when he sent a letter to Darwin about his "new" evolution,
which prompted Darwin - now at home in England - to rush out his
publication so that his name would be remembered rather than Wallace's
(and he succeeded admirably in this :) - and not Darwin who was quite
clearly a major bigot in his own way...trying to suggest that the
"primitive natives" weren't just "socially immature" but were
literally "less evolved"...and, similarly, tried to use evolution to
justify the Victorian "poor law" that, "obviously", the rich were the
"fittest" and the poor were the weak and they should, therefore, be
allowed to be culled mercilessly by nature because this is "nature's
way"...and still to this day, people still justify the most ludicrous
and often vile things in this same "pseudo-Darwinian" (as I like to
call it) way...the poor law, Eugenics, the Nazis and a lot more to
come with "designer babies" are / will all base themselves on the same
bigot and wrong thinking that Darwin had...trying to make himself
sound "superior" and justify his being rich when around him the poor
died by pretending that strictly _social_ and _human-internal_ issues
were related to biological evolution when, clearly, this is not the
true scientific case at all...
As I say, I wonder if the world would have been a better place had
Wallace not sent that letter to Darwin but had finished his tour of
the world - compiling much more data and coming to conclusions much
closer to what we know today to be fact - to publish it without giving
the cowardly Darwin (he'd thought up "natural selection" 20 years
before he actually published it and the motivation for him to do so
was knowing that Wallace had also found it, that if he didn't publish
then and there, Wallace would have usurped his place in the history
books)...Darwin did get the basic sentiments right and, yes, was
clearly the first to discover "natural selection" (common
misconception: _evolution_ was already an accepted common
theory...Darwin merely added "natural selection" in order to finally
explain _how_ it worked...people had already guessed that things
"evolved" but quite how it worked and what governed what happens was a
mystery that Darwin uncovered...I don't want to destroy Darwin's place
as the discoverer of evolution but I will take issue with how he went
about things and definitely have to take issue with his abuse of his
theory to try to justify his own opinions and politics ("let the poor
die, they are weak", "the natives were savage primitives with 'lesser'
brains than us 'civilised' folk", etc.) as if they were facts...on
that score, I find that Dawkins - who's name even sounds much like
Darwin - is the spiritual son of Darwin because he also likes to use
his "selfish gene" and "meme" theories to justify his crusade against
religion (and in one chapter of the "selfish gene" book that made me
twig how he was doing this - trying to justify with pseudo-science why
geeks don't score with women...in reading it and between the lines,
it's clearly a geek trying to use pseudo-science to boost his male ego
in trying to _blame women_ for this no doubt familiar situation to
him, rather than query if there's anything wrong in his behaviour that
women ain't so interested in him...for pure illustration, for
instance, his behaviour in trying to throw blame on others and try to
hide behind pseudo-science than accept his own behaviours...really,
he's a clever bloke (usually), no doubt...perhaps if he used that
intelligence properly rather than selfishly abuse it for his own ends,
he wouldn't seem quite such a "spiritually ugly" person...because
_that_ is what I believe he's missing there...simply, he's just no fun
at all...so no wonder if he encountered "social" problems as a
teenager or something...
> ["Star people ...... How much is enough?"]
>
> You know many lyrics by heart?! :)
Actually, yes, I do; You know there's sort of "types" of people...like
"visual thinkers" and "audio thinkers" and "written thinkers" (that
is, some people learn things better when they can see it happening,
some when they hear someone talk about it, some when they see it
written down, etc. :)...well, I'm one of the (rarer) "audio
thinkers"...when things are written down, I often have to re-read
them...when things are shown to me, I might ask for a repeat
demonstration to take it all in...but when things are spoken, it just
"sticks"...now, I stress, this ISN'T "photographic" memory in any
way...it's not guaranteed that just because it's spoken or a sound
that I'll instantly remember it but it is often very good indeed...I'd
say, on average - as long as the singer clearly voices the words that
I can make them out (many singers do tend to "grunt" and "groan" some
words that you can't really work out what they are saying...but, yes,
even then, I can listen to James Brown and often remember exactly
every single pause, scream, "ouch!" and such noises that he makes ;) -
I can hear a song three or four times and then know all the lyrics of
the song that I can comprehend...maybe less if it's clear and
simple...
It is a weird thing about the way my brain is wired up,
really...people often remark on it...although, again, I stress it
isn't any sort of "extraordinary" talent but just a case of "well,
that's unusual and non-average"...I confess, I'm an incurable
"sing-along" person, which helps it along (but, similarly, picking up
song lyrics - or, more generally, anything _audio_ - within a few
listenings means that it works both ways...I'm able to mostly sing
along with a new song only after hearing it a few times :)...mind you,
to my regret, I have no wonderful singing voice and there's no pop
career destined for me (because I really do Love my music so it would
be a dream job :)...but, still, I listen to all the songs and sing
along with them...please note that I make no real conscious effort to
learn the lyrics, they just leak into my brain as I listen...and I'm
absolutely dreadful if I see words written down and have to memorise
them (if I was an actress, I'd have to _read the scripts aloud_ then
I'd memorise them easily...if it was just reading, it would be an
effort and I'd be no good at it)...
It's just some weird way my brain is wired up because, also, I have
other "audio quirks" like this that, often, amuses or just plainly
annoys other people...for instance, if someone mumbles or says
something that wasn't clear, I _always_ hear words...how do I explain
this? It's not that I hear the words literally and I can tell that it
was mumbled but, always, if I hear something unclear, the nearest
words to it will pop into my head...and, really, they can often be
surreal and nonsensical...you know like in comedies they often have
someone mumble to themselves something like: "I think you're a foul
bastard" and the other person says: "what did you say?" and they
reply: "I said, I think he's fallen off his bar stool"...well, I sort
of get that in reverse, if you catch my drift...someone will mumble
something sensible but I'll end up hearing "the fish has been left out
to dry"...sometimes, I speak out what I think I've heard and it gets a
laugh...other times, though, someone's being serious and I'll get on
their nerves something rotten when I ask them "what has fish got to do
with anything?"...really, I've got friends who honestly think it's me
just trying to be funny with surreal stuff (doesn't help that, yes, my
humour is usually surreal humour that, yes, if it was delibrate, that
would probably be the sort of joke I'd make :) and won't accept that
this is honestly what I'm "hearing" in my head (well, I hear the sound
as it is...but I also "hear" this often surreal interpretation of what
I think I've heard...it's hard to explain but it's just there in my
brain whenever I hear something said indistinctly)...
It's a really weird thing, I realise...but I've gotten used to it...I
do often wonder how much of my often "non-standard" thinking and
behaviour is effected by this minor "quirk"...it's not anything like
synesthesia or whatever it's called where some people can "see" sounds
or "hear" colours...but it's, I suppose, a bit like a lesser version
of it and strictly _only_ audio...nope, I never "see" anything
unusual...it's just sound and, yes, other people really do get
confused, excited, annoyed by it because it does have unusual side
effects from time to time (if not directly, I always annoy people by
singing badly along with _any_ tune that comes on the TV or radio...as
I say, made slightly worse by the fact that I usually can just
"absorb" the lyrics just listening to things only a few times that
even a brand new song is no guarantee that I can't sing badly along
with it and annoy everyone listening to me wail out of tune along with
it :)...and, yes, if I need to remember something important, I've
learnt that the best way is to repeat it out aloud over and over and
it just "sticks"...very annoying for other people that it makes me a
terrible "study partner" but that's just the way it works with
me...when I wanted to learn simple lists of facts like the muscles of
the body or the Greek alphabet, I turned it into a "song" of sorts and
then it just gets "absorbed"...I also just adore music and one of the
first things that I didn't like about PC systems when I first started
programming for them was how most systems of the time only had the
crap joke of the PC speaker and most things were just eeriely silent
(also, if Windows messes up the display a bit, that's okay...I soldier
on, anyway...but if the sound starts breaking up or goes silent,
instant reboot...can't stand to be without it)...
There's also another weird quirk that I've noticed over time...when
things are out of tune or off-pitch, it really makes me whince and
it's almost painful...not real actual pain but, you know, it just
jumps immediately on my nerves and I almost feel I'd have to run out
of the room if it kept going for too long...I mean, most people with a
musical ear would similarly "not like" such sounds but I've noticed
that my reactions are a lot more extreme than others...that it
actually almost hurts to hear such sounds (not real pain but it really
feels like it would only take the most minor push to actually make it
hurt, it's that close at times)...again, not that much of a problem
but, again, it's something distinctly "non-standard"...and, yes, many
people simply do not believe me when I tell them this but it's really
how it is...my ears or brain or something must be ever-so-slightly
wired up for sound differently or something...it's only a subtle
difference and nothing that would ever make me famous or hailed as a
"genius" or anything extreme like that...just a minor difference but
it's a genuine one...I'm very much an "audio" person in quite unusual
ways...
But, in the case of the lyrics, I must confess that I often "back it
up" with a quick web search because not all lyrics are sung clearly or
I might have misheard a lyric (which happened before when I wrote
something and someone posted up to correct my mistake...which is why I
now, when I'm not totally sure, double-check with a quick web search
:)...but, yes, I do at least mostly know all these lyrics and they
were just "absorbed" by listening alone...so, even though I
"double-check" things with a web search here (and, ever since I made
that "typo" (or is it "listeno"? ;), I do this...because, as I said,
even if indistinct, I'll _still_ always hear words so this weird way
my brain works does actually mean I can easily mishear a word* :), I
already do know the lyrics enough to know which ones to pluck out at
the right occasions that fit what I'm saying...that's, in a sense,
_why_ I do this unusual thing of using song lyrics - of all things
because, yes, I know many people look down on them as "inferior" to a
quote from a book or something "elitist" like that (but knowing many
lyrics, I know that there's not much substance to that because, though
they have a more emotional twist to them, they are often brilliant
quotations to use :)...
[ Psychologically, it's interesting too because psychologists (and
film producers :) do say that hearing is the sense most directly
connected to the emotions (which is why film soundtracks are so
important and so effective...they, in a sense, carry the film's
emotions...the ochestra stab tells you that it's a shock...the slow
violins tell you to be tense...that sort of thing :)...and, yes,
though I do wonder how much is just people trying to beat me down by
trying to suggest I'm not being logical about things, I get called
"emotional" far more often than even I fell comfortable
hearing...because, really, I try to be logical but still get called
"emotional", anyway...don't really know how much this actually proves
anything, though, because I know other women also suffer a lot of "oh,
you're just too emotional" brow-beating from men as an attempt to shut
them up...well, it's an old and long established (and sexist)
connection: women = emotional...which makes it perfect as some "what
do you know? You're only an 'inferior' emotional woman, after all"
comeback, if I'm presenting my arguments or opinions a little too well
that the other person might lose having things all their own
way...hehehe :) ]
Another thing that's honestly only just dawned on me right now as I
type...I choose to type as I speak...I can't believe I never made the
connection to "audio" thinking before...it's plainly obvious that's
why I feel most comfortable typing in this unusual way...because I can
"speak" it onto the page, so to speak, and think in an audio rather
than written manner...am I dumb or am I dumb? (Don't answer that one,
if you value your life...hehehe ;) I knew all about my "audio" thing
all the time and only now I've made the connection that this is yet
another "non-standard" thing that is surely coming from my strange
"audio thinking"...oh dear, it seems I've gotten so used to it that
even something this obvious isn't actually obvious at all that I
completely missed this until now, when you've indirectly made me think
this stuff through and "speak" it aloud...ummm, basically, a minor
"wow!" moment there :)
--
* For those in the UK who are bored enough to watch that failed TV
thing "Fame Academy" on the BBC, I first heard their theme tune from
another room and it wasn't clear...so I heard "never stop bitching!"
rather than "never stop reaching!"...which, ironically and highly
amusingly, is probably a better description of this failed attempt at
mixing a talent show with Big Brother because they just spend all
their time trying to get the "talented young hopeful" to get into
fights or try to sleep with each other to improve the ratings because
the BBC put loads of money into it and it's apparently been a ratings
failure (I watch it, yes...but, as I say, I adore music so even crap
Karoke singers murdering popular tunes is still enjoyable...oh,
reminds me, another quirk: my audio memory is roughly like a tape
recorder...even when I hear a tune badly done, I can sort of "switch
on" a mental copy of the real tune and - being my inquistive self -
testing it out against other people and the real thing, it's really
accurate...not quite a "walkman" replacement but, yeah, if I have a
long wait ahead of me, I'll drag tunes out of my memory and mentally
play them back...actually, I'm now starting to think you'll all think
me mad because some of my friends honestly believe I'm making this
stuff up because they don't believe someone could do that...and, in
their shoes, I wouldn't blame them...I wouldn't believe it either
;)...
--
> | [ "Star People", George Micheal...is the world really run by
uncaring
> | parents and schoolyard bullies, teasing and making people feel
"half
> | made"? Are we looking at the butterfly wings that creates the
tornado
> | of our "civilisation"? Probably...which seems so miraculous and
quite,
> | quite ridiculous all at the same time :) ]
>
> Only the thinking may be aware, but there are just a few....
>
> | > Yes, words can be used to describe emotions as well,
> | > even (or even due) many detours and the creation of abstract
combinations.
>
> | "As well"? You're quite right but I think you're getting the
> | priorities mixed up...
>
> No, I had the non-verbal 'language' on top of my mind.
> Faces and "body-language" can tell more precise about emotions than
any words.
Ah, got you now; Yes, exactly right...I was thinking just about the
written word there (posts, Shakespeare, listening to a CD (without a
video), etc. being the things mentioned so far :) which obviously has
no "faces" or "body language"...and, of course, let's not forget "tone
of voice" in that mix too...
> | words almost certainly came about to describe
> | emotions and it was an "accidental bonus" that allowed us to also
use
> | them to write histories and explain the inner workings of clever
> | inventions...after all, what are the first words anyone speaks?
> | "Mama!!" or "Dada!!"...pure emotion, really, as nothing is
actually
> | being said...yet it says everything that the parent could ever
want to
> | hear...pure emotion...later on, the child will grow to talk about
> | all those minor things we busy our days with...
>
> Right, and we almost lost the ability to communicate without words.
Yes; In a weird sense, it's almost another case of "if you hold onto
something so tight, you've already lost it" [ U2 lyrics, by the way
;) ]...people have become more pedantically obsessed with words and
categories and hierarchies and interrelationships and terminology
that, in a sense, the original purpose is being lost in all the
pedanticism...words carry emotions and "additional semantics" and,
really, this isn't a "bad thing" or a "dirty word"...yes, you must be
very careful in clear and accurate definition not to let something
"additional" "pollute" what you're trying to express that, sure, don't
get poetic in a programming reference...not useful, not relevent,
would only distract from the actual facts...but certainly in ordinary
conversation - just chatting - if emotions enter into it, that surely
isn't "bad", right? I suppose there might be an element that some
people want to hide their emotions or aren't sure of them themselves
that they would be comfortable letting other people know them and
stuff that there would be a sort of "Emotions Verboten" thing attached
but, really, if you're chatting, wouldn't that stuff actually be more
the primary purpose - interacting with people socially - and the
actual stuff you discuss - important, yes - but sort of
"secondary"...when we chat here, it doesn't matter quite so much what
the topic is about, really, does it? The enjoyment comes from the
chatting itself...well, that's what I feel anyway...but then us women
are always accused of talking too much and being obsessed with
pointless chat and gossip (though, of course, the reverse perspective
is just as valid...am I talking too much or is everyone else not
giving enough back for the whole "social interaction" thing and,
perhaps, those you accuse of "chatting too much" are probably doing so
because it's an attempt to encourage someone else to respond...I
suppose the way to tell the difference...and there is a difference,
not all women talk too much - that's just sexist slander - because,
yes, I know people who talk too much of both genders...the test I'd
guess is whether they are happy to let people interrupt and get in
their opinions...if they don't, they _are_ talking too much...if not,
it's probably more that _you're_ not talking enough, instead...hehehe
;)...
Conveniently, this medium means that no-one can actually tell if I
talk too much or not because it's a "call / response" thing naturally
(with no real way to bypass it)...but, contrary to popular belief and
the impression my posts give, I really don't talk too much - okay,
that's my opinion but people rarely accuse me of it - because I
actually Love to hear other people talking...well, I am an "audio"
person...so, sure, I might say a lot but I never stop people from
talking or interrupt too much (when I do interrupt, I only ever do it
because I've just thought of something and I know that, if I waited,
I've such a scatterbrain at times, I just know I'd forget it...but I
try to keep that to a minimum because, yes, I know just how annoying
it can be to be interrupted that I feel totally guilty doing it to
anyone else :)...
> | > But how would Intel's doc read in that form:
> | >
> | > Below the canopy of the 168 pins, there housed an almost dead
sand-glass.
> | > After some centuries passed, a wealthy but greedy knight kissed
it back into
> | > life...
>
> | Granted, a technical reference is no place for emotion or
philosophy...
> | it needs to be simply factual to deliver its content to
> | the reader...though, if there was the "technical" version for
actually
> | getting facts, I don't know about you but I'd Love to hear the
> | "poetic" version afterward...remember, nothing inherently is
"better"
> | or "worse" (which our King couldn't see), that opinions get in the
way
> | when we want facts but if we'd rather opinions and emotions,
> | the "poetic" version would be a fantastic read...you've only
written two
> | lines but I'd just Love to hear the rest of this "manual"...hehehe
:)
>
> So finally I'll end up as a poem-author?
> This would need 'some' improvement of my English.
> Perhaps a target after "the CPU", when in retirement... :)
Hehehe :)
Why not? For something fun to do in your retirement, it doesn't sound
all bad, does it? :)
> | Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
> | attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's
clear
> | (whatever Hitler may have believed)...I've just been guilty of the
> | very same thing that some people assume me American because I
speak
> | English...that is annoying, granted...I do apologise...
>
> No need to, it wasn't meant "that" serious.
Still; I did wrong...you get an apology...whether you really wanted
one or not, one is due to you :)
> If Mr.Hitler's would have chosen to stay in Austria,
> his maximal ranking were no more than a ordinary bachelor.
If only...if only...
Beth :)
bv_schornak
>Bernhard wrote:
>
>>Beth wrote:
>>
>>>Entschuldig mir; You're quite right and I've not been paying close
>>>attention...I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
>>>(whatever Hitler may have believed)...
>>>
>>Wow - who did write your history books?
>>
>The victors, of course...they always write the history books, so I'm
>told...
>
Bull's eye - I should have known that! :)
>>[Hitler]
>>Mr. Adolf Hitler was born in Braunau am Inn as the son of a Jew and his
>>
>>(Austrian) housekeeper. Braunau was (and still is) a town in Austria.
>>
>>Thus, Mr. Adolf Hitler was a native Austrian! ;)
>>
>
>That, actually, was my exact point; Hitler was Austrian and, even
>more, has Jewish ancestry...as well as being short, black haired, dark
>eyed and, apparently, having quite severe sexual and health
>problems...the side comment there was meant specifically as a nasty
>jibe against Hitler because his "preachings" were vile, factually
>incorrect, utterly hypocritical (he was distinctly "non-Ayrian"
>himself) and, simply, I think deserves to be insulted and poked fun
>at, at every available opportunity...
>
>Just to clarify, the comment was meant specifically just to insult
>Nazi "philosophy" because it's vile, factually incorrect and, in
>Hitler's case, was completely hypocritical...nothing else was meant to
>be implied there...
>
We can't discuss him away - would be very dangerous, if we *could* do
such things! :)
>Actually, you're right...Austria has roots in the same Germanic tribes
>that are in Germany...so, Hitler's not wrong to claim that "Ayrian"
>business with regard to "roots" but as "Germany" is strictly the name
>of a political border that has no real relation to any ancient
>Germanic roots, he'd be wrong to claim to be "German"...one has to be
>careful of the wording here because "Germania" (ancient place roughly
>where Germany is that Austrians and Germans and others historically
>come from) is not the same thing as modern "Germany"...
>
May be some kind of misunderstanding - "Germany" in German is
"Deutschland" (a term which has nothing to do with Germans), so for me
"German" is related to the ancient German tribes - not to me. Also, I
feel like a Bavarian rather than a German. Even if I'm born in the Free
Town of Danzig (Gdansk, part of Poland since WWII ended) - I grew up
here, so this is my home.
As Wolfgang and I agreed, Austria was settled by Bavarians (a German
tribe) and was a part of Bavaria until 1273 A.C., where Rudolf von
Habsburg - a Swiss ruler and _elected_ King of Germany - occupied the
"Bavarian colony" Austria (also called "Deutsche Ostmark"). We also
agreed, that Bavarians and Austrians have more in common than e.g.
Bavarians an Hessians. We can't deny our roots or the things we have in
common (culture, language), even if we live in different countries. I
hope, that Europe finally gets rid of all of its borders as soon as
possible, so nobody has to talk about former borders or nations anymore!
I never had in mind, that Austria should come back to the "Reich" -
would be as weird as claim Switzerland (Alamans), France (Franconians),
Spain (Goths) and much more countries with German ancestors to be under
the big German hood from now on. ;) History shows us, that all big
Empires sooner or later disappeared, because they couldn't manage to
keep many different cultures and nations under the regime of a few
people. All the "Great" ones experienced this (except the romans, who
managed to hold their empire for several centuries)!
>That, in fact, is the reason why such arguments - especially when
>leveled as reasons for intolerance - are dangerous and easy to get
>muddled up with...for example, there is much "Germanic" blood in
>America...and in more ways than one (direct immigration from Germany
>or Austria being the most obvious way :) because, for example, some of
>the Celts originate from a place which is where the Western edge of
>Germany now is...
>
The Celts (an indo-european tribe) occupied a little bit more than that.
Here's an old map drawn by Eratosthenes, an ancient Greek
<http://www.altmuehlnet.de/gemeinden/boehmfeld/dorf/kelten/k-wk-250vc.gif>
and a
"modern" map <http://member.rivernet.com.au/manxman/Celts/ancient.htm>
showing where Celts ruled...
>...and a Germanic influence is in the English language
>by no coincidence because it travelled along with the wandering
>peoples...that is, even if you're an American who has Irish or English
>"blood", you certainly cannot rule out any Germanic influence...
>
What about the Angle-Saxons or Normans (all German tribes)? They
influenced the English language much more than all other German tribes
together! ;)
Different situations in Europe and "new" countries like the USA or
Australia. The "new" countries wasn't much populated, as the borders
were set, so they could define straight lines (longitudes and lattitudes
in many cases). European borders are influenced by different culture and
language of the people. Huge parts were German tribes, and the borders
grew around the areas, where the different tribes settled down (or where
they were stopped in their expansion...)!
>Of course, this is not to say that there's no reason to make claim to
>being French or whatever...nor is it any reason to say that people
>shouldn't recognise their roots and, yes, be proud of their
>"forefathers"...but I would stress that it has to be put into context
>and the "solidity" (there isn't much) of these mostly political labels
>has to be recognised too...that is, sure, be proud to be English or
>American or Austrailian or German or French...but its wider context
>has to be remembered and it should stop short when it starts to turn
>into an excuse for intolerance, hatred and war...when "arrogance" and
>"superiority" and other things that have no grounds whatsoever
>_pollute_ simple partriotism of being proud of where you come from...
>
>That is, "Patriotism is the Love of one's country, _NEVER_ the hatred
>of another"...if an English football supporter shouts over to the
>German supporters with insults, is that patriotism? Is that supporting
>his country? NO, IT'S NOT...it is just intolerance and
>hatred...patriotism and support would be to shout how you Love your
>team and your country...after all (substituting the countries to what
>applies to you, of course ;), you can shout "Germany is crap!"...all you
"We the people of the United States
In order to form a more perfect union
Stop pretending that you've never been bad
You're never wrong and you've never been dirty
You're such a saint, that ain't the way we see you
You want to rule us with an iron hand
You change the lyrics and become Big Brother
This ain't Russia, you ain't my Dad or Mother
(They never knew anyway)
'Cuz I never walk away from what I know is right
But I'm gonna turn my back on you
Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
Freedom, raise your fist and yell
Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
Freedom-ring
You're playing God from your ivory tower
Back off preacher, I don't care if it's sunday
I ain't no angel, but I never felt better
We're a make-up metal degeneration
We're not as stupid as you want to make us
You better leave us man
'Cuz you shure can't take us
Nobody better tell you how to live your life
You gotta do it on your own
Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
Freedom, raise your fist and yell
Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
Freedom-ring
'Cuz I never walk away from what I know is right
But I'm gonna turn my back on you
Freedom, we're gonna ring the bell
Freedom to rock, freedom to talk
Freedom, raise your fist and yell
Freedom"
Alice Cooper - Freedom (from the Album: Raise Your Fist And Yell (1987))
Maybe you didn't read my 1st reply to Wolfgang's posting (about the same
topic as I replied to your posting):
[Bernhard wrote:]
<<< I'm amused by your sight of "Germany vs. Austria" - but we shouldn't
fall back into diverting nations because of the history, culture or
whatever else. In times of an European Union, where we are trying to
build a "State of Europe", we should see us as Europeans rather than
Austrian, British, Dutch, French, German, Spain, Swidish, ... loners!
One step towards a future, where people may say "I'm an inhabitant of
the planet earth" (as I see myself to be one). >>>
That was all I wanted to say about Wolfgang's joke! In the paragraphs
above you're telling the same in more details... :)
>Check your history books; The old Kings and Queens of ancient times
>also used to send out their soldiers on bold "crusades" whenever they
>needed better PR ratings...
>
The Kings and Queens were *born* as leaders, nobody ever questioned
their right to rule (except other "blue blooded"). Whenever they had a
war, either they wanted to expand their territory or had to defend it.
Until 1789 the "masses" _never_ revolted against a King or Queen!
>...a common enemy unites the people, you
>see...even tempts them to temporarily forget about their own troubles,
>if they can be convinced that there is a direct threat to them
>immediately...thus, poor leaders have constantly used common enemies
>to unite the people...not through any great skill or good leadership
>but by simply scaring your own people to believe there is a greater
>threat than there is...and, well, I'm wondering how many times "common
>enemies" have actually been invented to disguise poor leadership...I
>can't say for certain that this has ever happened but, well, if I can
>think of it, so can our "great" leaders (because, to be honest, they
>are much more qualified than some "interested amateur" like me in
>these games and tricks)...
>
>Is this what's happening? I honestly can't tell
>you...perhaps...perhaps not...but it has to be considered...just in
>case...increasingly, Orwell's warnings seem more and more realistic...
>
This is valid since the early 20th century (the upcoming of democracy as
the common form of "Western" governments), and our "brown hordes" had a
good share in the development of instruments to control the masses.
Research existed long before, but was more philosophy than application...
That much trouble because of a nice, innocent joke ... like somebody,
who throws a small stone into the Hamburg harbour, causing a huge wave
which wipes New York away ...
Think, I should do some research about genetics - in concurrence to tech
and history not one of my favorites...
[Beth wrote:]
>>>I do apologise...Austrians aren't Germans, that's clear
>>>(whatever Hitler may have believed)...
>>>
Of course - I must have been blind not to see each carbon atom within
this shiny diamond! :D
My replies to you and Wolfgang were caused by the loose interpretation
of history rather than my lack of humour. There are too many false
"facts" in the heads of non-Germans (and many Germans, too) about
Germans and their history. I bet, that nobody in this NG would have
questioned the "truth" behind the given "facts" - and people in this NG
(I think) are something like the "elite" of their countries. My sense
for fairness is triggered, whenever I stumble upon such things and I
can't suppress to say something about (not limited - sometimes even
contrary - to my own origin or interests) ... Even if I tried not to
offend both of you (not to forget - we are talking about a joke!),
seeing your reaction - I think I did offend you a little bit. Sorry for
that! I'm doing a lousy job, if the difference between ironic and
serious statements isn't as clear as it should be...
wolfgang kern
"Bernhard" answered:
| {Ancient Society of the *Queen*'s ryche}
|
| Obligatory short article (278 pages) about Maat-ka-ra (known as
| Hats(c)hepsut), *Queen* of the both Empires:
|
| ...jabber, jabber...
| ____________________
| I wrote:
| >[snip] ...visit Hallstadt and see the 'chieftains' tombs.
| Studied an article about that (see link given below)... :)
| >Quality of meals, beer and coffee determines the standard of a culture!
|
| Agreed! Great definition! Best published under the terms of the LGPL -
| hurry, somebody could steal it...
I don't care about the copyright, you may use it.(even it's a common saying)
| >Not needed anymore, 100 heavy trucks per minute haunt the Alps now,
| > mostly(I)and(D).
| You forgot the 1.66667 heavy trucks (A) per second :D ...
| watch out for the white flash -> [A - TC 985]!
:)
| >You know much more about history than me.
| Try <http://www.archaeologie-online.de/>, then you know the same! ;)
| I know much more about ancient Egypt than about European history...
Thanks, looks interesting, will search deeper during holydays....
| Greetings from Augsburg
|(back to serious work ... recoding some stuff)
Good idea, still a lot "pending" on my list.
| Bernhard Schornak
--
wolfgang kern
wolfgang kern
[]
please give me some more hours to complete my answer.
I already finished half of it during the last two hours,
but I'm awful hungry now... :)
__
wolfgang
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > Randy wrote:
> >>Maybe this means we'll see Beth Tool before too much longer!
> >>Maybe I should stop posting and get back to work on HLA v2.0 :-)
> >
> > Not yet; But then I'm waiting for HLA v2.0 :)
>
> Hehe. I'm betting we see HLA 2.0 sooner than Nasm 1.0! But we
*might*
> see Nasm 1.0 before BethTool 0.01.
Definitely, seeing as, like Randy, I use a slightly non-standard
numbering system so the first version I'm working on is "v0.1"...I
don't imagine requiring the need for a hundred revisions before the
radical change of a new version...I'm much too fickle, room for nine
revisions is probably pushing it in my case...I mean, look how long
the first one takes me...hehehe :)
> I understand your reluctance to pick
> the fruit before it's ripe, but it *would* be nice to have a taste
of
> what you've got in mind.
...and the serpent did beguile her to eat of the fruit of the tree...
> > Also, I thought you and Frank also looked in on alt.os.development
to
> > know that I've actually been tied up arguing with good ol'
MS-Loving
> > Maxim about the X window system...
>
> Actually, I wasn't sure *what* that last "epic poem" was about, but
it
> started out with some very interesting observations about the X
windows
> system. My initial, untutored, reaction to "X", is that it's just as
> bloated, slow, and crash-prone as "the other kind of windows".
Well, ummm, it is, to an extent...I perhaps flavoured it to an extreme
as a counteraction to Maxim's usual "GDI was sent to programmers from
Heaven itself! Bow to your Lord!" stuff...but I didn't have to flavour
it that much because, truely, there's no lie or exaggeration that the
X protocol is infinitely better designed than Windows...notice how
even Maxim - who could easily be mistaked for Bill himself speaking
with his adoring advocacy - had to concede that USER is a pile of
dog's doo-doo once X was mentioned...well, he's brainwashed rather
than stupid...walk away and you can fight another day, as the saying
goes...
It's no miracle but it's not to be ridiculed as much as it is...that's
mostly FUDs and the bad experience of hacked implementations leaking
into people's brains...I thought _identically_ of X until I bothered
to look into it...only to realise that the design is in places
excellent that it really can all be blamed on a lack of skilled
programmers who know it well and bad implementations (that may be its
strength and weakness on the design front...it's a "protocol" and
merely "suggests" the "standard" for implementation - much like Java -
and, well, even MS's cheap and cheerful student programmers seem more
up-to-speed with what they should be doing...as I say, if you've been
thinking "slow" then see if you can find a Silicon Graphics
Workstation X because they do know about graphics and, well, even the
"standard" screen savers moved with a fluidity that even the most
speed-freakiest demo coder would be happy with)...
> You point
> out that it's XFree86 that I'm looking at, and that the problem's in
> the implementation, and not the X protocol.
Well, just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that X is miraculous or
anything...but nothing in its design should entail it being anywhere
near as "slow and bloated" as what I see coming from some
implementations like XFree86...they are doing something wrong
somewhere and, well, as I mentioned in the "epic poem", when run
under Cygwin, even when client and server are both
local, they are tripping off internet alerts...why would a local
implementation require anything internet at all other than to be lazy
in having only a single implementation? Portability isn't an issue
when both pieces of software are running on the same machine so it's
_guaranteed_ portable, as, by definition, a machine is always going to
be compatible with itself...to a remote machine, sure, use it...but,
locally, do as the protocol advises and use the most suitable
transport medium, which would be IPC things like shared memory or
messages or something like that under UNIX-alikes...consider that
internet protocols are all big-endian and the Intel chips are
little-endian and, it's quite possible that everything is being
byte swapped once and then byte swapped back again immediately,
for "compatibility" when...ummm...by definition, a local machine
is _guaranteed_ to be compatible with itself...it's either a case
of "over-portability" or a case of being too lazy to implement
more than one transport medium and just settling for one
that - even if not appropriate - works in all cases, which is the
internet protocols :)...
Plus, throw on top of that, that the X protocol specifies that all
"requests" (messages sent to the X server :) are _asynchronous_ and
may be cached at the discretion of the implementation, as it deems
"suitable" for the transport medium being used to serve requests (so,
strictly, following the protocol, X implementations should be
tailoring this stuff exactly to the situation to deliver the best
performance...that's what they _should_ be doing but experience of
actual implementations seems to imply that there's quite a lot of
"interpretation" involved in how many of them are reading the protocol
documents, so to speak ;)...as X is designed to be as applicable
locally as it is remotely, the idea there is that requests can be
compacted together and stuff like that to emphasise a reduction in
connection traffic to the server (much like Windows also consolidates
multiple WM_PAINT messages into a single one, so as to disturb an
application minimally)...now, again, over a remote connection via a
transport with low bandwidth, you'd do a lot of caching and optimising
to try to optimise _throughput_ rather than _responsiveness_...in
fact, there'd even be the temptation to simply _sit there_ and
literally just _wait_ for a short period just to make sure no new
requests show up...not good for responsiveness at all but, over a
limited bandwidth to a remote machine, useful to emphasise throughput
(well, if you tried "high responsiveness" over a 56k modem to a
machine in Australia, sending tons of requests left, right and centre,
you'd jam up the connection most likely and, despite wanting "high
responsiveness", you just can't physically get it so there's no point
even trying to "force" high responsiveness when the physical wires
can't handle it...our problem here, though, is essentially that
certain X implementations like XFree86 appear to be adopting a
_single_ strategy for any and all mediums so that when the client and
server are local and the "connection" is effectively a bus that can
transfer GBs a second, it's still thinking and adopting a strategy
that it applies to low bandwidth modems...namely, high throughput and
let the responsiveness suffer)...
Again, when things are local, though, an X implementation should
modify its strategy and think "high responsiveness" because bandwidth
and speed are as optimal as they are ever going to get...but, again,
many implementations think "let's implement a single transport and a
single strategy that works for all occasions, regardless of how
'appropriate' it might be because that's less effort to code"...
Now, I'm not going to say that if implemented better it'll necessarily
kick butt but what the protocol describes is much, much better than
what we tend to see (and it does advise on tailoring things to suit
the situation...in fact, that's why it takes the "portability" thing
on its own shoulders so that the transport stuff doesn't need to be
that at all beyond what any OS would need to do to communicate to a
remote machine and, locally, it can completely forget about it
altogether, as "compatibility" is 100% "a given" by definition, if
it so chooses)...
Plus, simply, I severely doubt that this is not the only problem with
the immensely slow XFree86 implementation...it can be so sluggish at
times that it makes MS, of all people, look like "lean and mean"
speed-freak programmers...something is very much amiss with XFree86
and, essentially, my point to Maxim there was that I can't see
anything specifically in the X protocol itself that would be
accounting for this...sure, I wouldn't go so far as to even imply it's
the "most optimal" design that ever could be - nowhere near, just like
Windows - but it shouldn't be suffering anywhere near this
badly...even when MS moved the graphics stuff into the kernel itself
for speed reasons (removing the need for extra user -> kernel
transitions...though this does mean breaking "good microkernel
design", MS have just decided "who cares? Responsiveness to the user
has priority over keeping academic theories satisfied" and, in a
ad-hoc hacked-together design like Windows (even NT cannot be without
its criticisms), it would be miraculous to see MS suddenly start
worrying about something like "good design theory", anyway...hehehe
;)...
As I say, if you look at X implementations on other platforms like
Sparcs or Sillicon Graphics workstations and that sort of thing (if
you have the opportunity), then X doesn't appear to have any real
problems at all on such systems with Sun and Silicon Graphics actually
implementing it...because, one assumes, they know there stuff and
understand the X design well and have taken pains to get the
implementation "just right"...again, no claims that X is a Heaven-sent
gift, of course...but it's more than reasonable on such machines (and
any extra "punch" that workstations used to have has been matched by
modern PCs that you can make quite direct comparisons of realtively
the same CPU power driving X, which does not do the XFree86
implementation any favours)...
I have a feeling, basically, that XFree86 is a little "rushed" because
of a need to ant to be a "Windows killer" and wanting to do it
yesterday (where, though MS aren't the speediest developer, it must be
remembered that they are competing with a product with _two decades_
worth of development put into it...more, if you don't believe MS when
they say that "DOS is dead" for the millionth time, so it extends
further before even Windows was a twinkle in Bill's eye ;)...and, as
an OpenSource project, should perhaps still very much be thought of as
"still in development" and that you're using one of the "prototype"
versions, which just happens to be publicly available because this is,
of course, OpenSource's way of doing things (the "honest" version of
the same "our customers make the best and cheapest debuggers" style of
Quality Assurance...MS and OpenSource _both_ do this but OpenSource at
least admits that this is all part of the plan and is "OpenSource
mentality", where MS release "v1.0" saying it's "finished" but then
along comes "Second Edition" or "Service Pack 1" within a few months,
as the complaints come flooding in...or, in the case of XP, when it
was released with what experts consider to be one of the worst
security flaws they've ever seen (completely unnecessary too, as it's
a design flaw, not actually bad coding so a proper design review
really should have spotted it and sorted it out prior to release by
checking the potential consequences of various "default" settings)
that it poured complete mockery over MS's "the most secure Windows
ever" claims...and, psychologically, I'm not sure "AutoUpdate" is such
a hot idea because it's making users realise just how much "patching"
and "hot fixing" Windows needs...previously, most people ignorantly
carried on with the security flaws, most probably not even aware that
MS have a site that hands out security fixes...now, with "Windows
Update" built in and switched on by default, people are seeing the
never-ending stream of "security hotfix #57,685" updates appearing
every week that I don't think that the marketing people talked this
over with the programmers because, psychologically, it's actually _MS
themselves_ who are eating through their own "most secure and reliable
Windows ever" propoganda...forcing people to the conclusion that if
this is their best and it needs continual patching and hotfixing, then
Windows generally can't be up to much good...before, simple ignorance
amonst most ordinary users would have covered this up that the
marketing might be believed but, as I say, I don't think there was a
"marketing talking to the designers and programmers" review that took
this damaging psychological element into consideration...I already
know what Windows was like but Windows Update is even managing to make
my low opinion of MS descend into uncharted depths...I knew they were
bad but this actually is a direct measure of it and it's NOT good
image-making at all, in my opinion ;)...
> I guess I would have figured
> that out for myself eventually, but I said "Oh, yeah!" when you
> pointed out that the two need to be considered separately.
Yup; It's easy to forget but X-Windows is a protocol, XFree86 is a
particular implementation of it...as I mentioned to Maxim when he a
little stupidly mentioned "portability" on the Windows side, there's
an X implementation available on practically everything that's good
enough to support a GUI hardware-wise...it's why X tends to get
linked to UNIX and C, even though it strictly has no actual true
connection beyond that same property that it exists on almost
everything you can think of...it is on less machines than C and UNIX
but that's because, inherently, it's a GUI protocol so that concept
itself requires a degree of hardware "oomph" to render a GUI...so
that, true, you won't find it inside a washing machine,
as you might with C code...or UNIX on a space station...though,
often, it is partnered up with something UNIX-alike but there's
nothing that makes it that way and, if I had the time and didn't
have a million other things to do, the idea of a stand-alone - well,
not completely, as X only covers _GUI_ things so it would have to
have some kernel stuff attached to it too - implementation that
could "cheat" like NT does and stuff things into the kernel -
breaking "good" microkernel design - to get that extra "oomph" of
speed...that is, if done properly, it should have no problems
matching up favourably to Windows in theory...perhaps not ever
beating it but acceptable enough that X isn't considered a
"poor man's Windows" as you almost can't help thinking of XFree86
at the moment...in fact, there's a mad thought; Who are the XFree86
coders? Could they be MS "plants" and "spies" delibrately adding
crapness to protect their "baby"? Oh dear; Perhaps I shouldn't say
such things aloud, in case I give Bill any nasty thoughts ;)...
> An implementation
> targeted to local-machine, x86-specific, "desktop" use is a *very*
> intrigueing notion!
It certainly world; Or, even at an extreme, a "stand-alone" X
implementation that, like Windows, has this GUI stuff as part of the
kernel itself (X is only a GUI protocol so you would have to "borrow"
some extra stuff from UNIX or something to cover memory management,
devices and that sort of "kernel" stuff)...Windows was once just,
basically, an application that ran on top of DOS but "went kernel"
(and, yes, improved substantially in many ways for doing so)...it
really would be "intrigueing" to wonder about an X implementation that
did the same and really took on MS at their own game of making this
"stand-alone" implementation X-compliant (X may not be saturated with
as much software as Windows but it does exist on a lot of machines and
does have a very good software base that means this wouldn't be
"starting from scratch with no hope of ever grabbing users because
they isn't any sofware" which has been the downfall of many things
that the hardware or OS simply had no software so, therefore, nothing
to attract people to using it...technical specifications are "nice"
but people want software because their primary concern is getting work
done or having fun playing games...as IBM I think learnt well with its
"technical" TV adverts for OS/2 Warp against MS's "pretty colours and
people smiling" TV adverts for Windows, for the vast majority of
people - yes, mostly "ordinary users" but it does even attract
professionals too (because, yes, I like a system where there's plenty
of choice of IDEs and that sort of thing that there's no problems with
"no software available" at all :) - this is the selling point...it's
the oldest trick in the advertising book...do you say "we have 10Mbps
tranfer to 256GB servers" or do you simply have an attractive blonde
smiling because she finds Windows "so easy and enjoyable for all the
family!"? As advertisers know very well, the attractive blonde will
always win hands down because, quite frankly, most people can't even
comprehend what the first sales tactic even means, let alone be
attracted by it)...
Perhaps a "splinter group" could work on a "consumer-targetted"
variant of the Linux / XFree86 marriage that follows where MS have,
indeed, done things correctly...where this specifically-targetted
variant of the Linux kernel has X properly intergrated and not just
some application that you can run to offer pretty graphics...X can't
stand alone (as just a "GUI protocol" and not a complete OS in itself)
but it could be married up again with the Linux kernel but in a much
more integrated way...that is, the OS is actually _X_ (can't call it
"OS X" - said "OS ten", so I'm told - because Apple took that for
their new OS name :) and something like Linux (or, if you like, some
other "kernel" someone might fancy using :) is merely providing those
bits that X doesn't cover itself...
It might seem like hardly any difference there but the point would be
to "redo" that whole X thing, focussing primarily on it so that it
delivers...and, also, the Linux / XFree86 marriage is a bit clumsy and
messy...Linux is programmer-orientated, really...and this "splinter
project" would leave those people to deal with the "non-consumer"
market while this is primarily focussed on, yes, all those Windows
users who don't really have an alternative choice because all the
alternatives are simply too complicated for their tastes...
That actually has always been the thing about the whole "OpenSource
versus Microsoft" thing that has always made me think...MS do consider
them to be a serious threat (whatever Maxim says ;), as their own
surveys and leaked internal memos show...and, though Maxim and MS try
to patch over this as "insignificant", this is a "hobby" OS maintained
by volunteers taking on the world's richest company...that in itself
seems miraculous...but then I start thinking "but, wait a minute,
Linux isn't even really playing on the same scene as Windows"...I
mean, it isn't, is it? It's technically-orientated versus
easy-for-the-user-orientated...command-line with GUI "application"
versus the OS _is_ a GUI with some "command-line" emulation for
"backwards compatibility"...OpenSource has not even entered into the
same field as Windows, really, but can have an impact that MS aren't
liking one bit...in that regard, there are NO "Windows alternatives"
because no alternative is quite on the same playing field...
Now, granted, there is the very valid point that Linux people are
usually happy and proud that it isn't "the OS for teapots" but
actually concentrates on trying to do a quality job with good
design...the OpenSource volunteers, as Eric Raymond suggests, tend to
be "scratching a programming itch" that it does matter what
programmers themselves think about OSes and what they personally
prefer (so, command lines aren't the "scary voodoo black magic" that
ordinary users run away from at the first opportunity, if at all
possible) that, yes, I wouldn't be that hopeful of finding all that
many volunteers for such a project (not that I'm looking...just
thinking aloud :)...
> > and, also, there was my post on
> > there where I explained that I've been having some really ugly
> > problems with my news server over the last few days...
>
> I haven't seen the "free re-post" with full headers included in the
> text from Annie, yet. But I expect to. You're not alone with the
> various "server problems" that crop up.
Oh, indeed; But this one is getting rather tiresome, especially when,
up to now, they've been almost angelically good...despite all the
problems other people were getting, I never once had a single problem
with CLAX nor duplicated posts nor, basically, anything...but I think
they've gone and restricted the number of simultaneous connections or
something like that, to the point where I was simply unable to get any
sort of response from them at all...it's actually still not cured but
it has improved sufficiently that I was able to pick up all the posts
that I haven't been able to read for a number of days and actually
some of my replies are getting through...it's a case of hit "send" and
cross your fingers...never had that before, it's very infuriating, to
be honest...I know appreciate all the agony that other people have
been
getting with the CLAX problems...
> > Anyway, as for "Annie ASCII", there is no need for "replacement"
> > at all...the more, the merrier...actually, since debs has
> > mysteriously disappeared without a trace and laura fairhead exited
> > stage left for quite some months, the only other female around
> > here seems to be one half of the Mark & Candice White "entity"
> > on alt.os.development, who post(s) schizophrenically that you're
> > never sure quite who you're talking to, anyway...I would actually
> > be very happy to see more women around here, even one's who say
> > things like "moogies"...hehehe :)
>
> Yeah! I guess because Laura never posted as regularly as Debs used
> to, I hadn't really noticed her absense. She's got a nice web site
> at:
>
> http://lf.8k.com/
>
> (still up, I just checked)
Mind you, not that that's necessarily proof of all that much because,
for all we know, Laura set that up months ago and hasn't touched it
since...having, for all we know, joined the army and become a jet
fighter pilot or something...the website would, one assumes, still
just sit there until her webspace people remove it when the
so-many-years payment Laura made for the webspace runs out...or,
perhaps, she's working away on it every day and just posts to C
newsgroups now, having given up on ASM coding...it's nice to know that
her website is still up, of course, just it doesn't help all that much
with solving the mystery of all these disappearances everywhere...but
"somewhat encouraging signs" are better than none at all, I suppose :)
> > And I'm thoroughly disappointed in you lot...surely you don't need
> > me here to hold your hands? (no, I said "need", not "want" ;)...
> > but, well, it only goes to prove that you "inferior" men simply
> > fall apart when their isn't a woman to guide you around...hehehe
:)
>
> I haven't noticed us "falling apart", but we *do* enjoy holding
> hands with you :) So please do hold our hands and guide us. And
> could you make us some coffee, honey? <ducks and runs>
Well, with comments like that, it's probably not surprising that all
the women are disappearing...
[ And, on another slightly semi-serious note, the notion of some
"newsgroup queen" title is another sexist idea - as it doesn't get
considered for men as some "king" title here, does it? - implying that
every woman who posts is entering some sort of "beauty contest" where
all the men are judges, keeping every woman posting under constant
scrutiny to hand out "points" and a "title"...that is a touch "spooky"
and, even though I seem to have been awarded the "title" by Ms.ASCII,
I'm not sure I like that idea all that much...I can't say I find that
general attitude all that welcoming and friendly...even if
"innocently" meant and probably even meant to be "nice" but, positive
or negative, discrimination is discrimination...and when you feel
that, you can't feel "at home" because you're effectively being
alienated or "special cased" by it all...mind you, neither Debs nor
Laura seemed like the sort to be put off or to just leave because of
something like that so I don't think that's a solution to the mystery
either...but, generally, you have to seriously consider why - even
though this is a male-dominated industry that they aren't great
numbers of female coders - the ratio in a group like this doesn't
correspond to what's out there...in the case of me, Debs and, from
what
little I saw of Laura's posts, we're the sort who fight our corner and
will just tell you lot to "shut up!" when appropriate...and, quite
possibly, it's that "stubborness" that means you see any females here
at all...I know that if I was more "sensitive" and less stubborn then
lots of these comments have not been encouraging...upsetting even...
that, essentially, being a "stubborn cow" is why you still see me post
today...I did threaten before to leave when I was getting grilled and
it wasn't just "melodramatics", I was seriously considering it
because, at that time, I was quite upset by it all...
> > Although, yes, where is debs? She's now not posted for quite a
> > long time that I am firmly entering the "distinctly worried"
> > phase...I do hope she's okay...anyone heard anything from
> > here? Frank?
>
> I'm worried about Debs, too. The very last I heard from her was a
> message to nasm-devel on July 5th, in which she said:
>
> ---------------------
> I'll take a proper look through the code in a couple of days, but I
> don't expect to be getting much done before Monday because I've got
> people coming over for the weekend (that's so rare that I'm gonna
> make the most of it - party time :)
> ----------------------
>
> I hope she just decided to make a long weekend of it. I e-mailed her
> some time ago, and got neither a response nor a "bounce" message.
> I've just sent another one - no bounce yet... Maybe you or someone
> in the UK could try to look up a phone number... "No use worrying
> about things you can't do anything about", but that doesn't stop me.
Yes, the worrying thing with Debs's absence was the lack of any real
indication that she was about to disappear for a while (in fact, as
you show, there was actually even suggestions of quite the reverse:
"I'll take a proper look at the code..." implying a sort of "I'll get
back to you on that later") and now no responses to Email...
Mind you, I actually got immensely worried before when I was talking
to Rick Hodgin prior to September the 11th and then I didn't hear
anything for a long while after...eventually, he showed up and was
just "elsewhere" for a while, detoured by life...but the problem was I
knew he was American but never asked him exactly where so, for all I
knew, he could have been a New Yorker...turns out I was worrying about
nothing but, as you say, that doesn't stop you worrying...
And, with Debs, she did mention she has "health problems" but, again,
much like Rick, I'm not sure of the details to know whether that's an
additional worry or not...would it be "normal" for her health problems
to get laid up once in a while but it's nothing to worry
about...or...and, yes, it's that "or" that's getting to me big-time
because, simply, I have no clue as to what might have happened...
> Anyway, good to see that you're just "otherwise occupied" and not
> mad at us as Annie suggested. Hope Laura's okay, too, but I'm less
> worried about her.
With the current thread elsewhere, don't rule out "mad at us"
completely...again, I'm feeling "isolated" and almost "picked on"
again...I have a tough hide, though, so I won't just "disappear"...but
these two new threads aren't exactly designed to make me feel at
home...and it's a bit worse now that Debs has disappeared because now
it really is literally "singled out" and there's only me to fight the
female corner...maybe Debs never realised because I never said it
aloud (or had any "girl chat" or anything that wasn't just replies to
posts on here) but I really enjoyed having her around so that I wasn't
such a "alien specimen for everyone to poke sticks at" as it's
beginning to feel a little now in her absence...
As I said to Ms.ASCII, "the more, the better" because it's quite
possible to be surrounded by people and still feel very much
"alone"...especially when everyone else seems to want to turn me into
some sort of "freak show" (or, worse, "peep show") or something...
Beth :)
Beth
Beth wrote:
> > Yeah! I guess because Laura never posted as regularly as Debs used
> > to, I hadn't really noticed her absense. She's got a nice web site
> > at:
> >
> > http://lf.8k.com/
> >
> > (still up, I just checked)
>
> Mind you, not that that's necessarily proof of all that much
because,
> for all we know, Laura set that up months ago and hasn't touched it
> since...having, for all we know, joined the army and become a jet
> fighter pilot or something...the website would, one assumes, still
> just sit there until her webspace people remove it when the
> so-many-years payment Laura made for the webspace runs out...or,
> perhaps, she's working away on it every day and just posts to C
> newsgroups now, having given up on ASM coding...it's nice to know
that
> her website is still up, of course, just it doesn't help all that
much
> with solving the mystery of all these disappearances
everywhere...but
> "somewhat encouraging signs" are better than none at all, I suppose
:)
Correction: I've now spotted the "changes to the website" page and
she's been altering things at least as recently as last month...so,
okay, it is more than just "an encouraging sign"...it seems that,
basically, she's working on that stuff and not posting here
anymore...as you mention, she didn't post all that regularly,
anyway...I probably was one of the only ones to spot her absence in
the midst of her not posting all that regularly, anyway...because, as
I say, I don't really want to be the only female around and have to
deal with any male-orientated "disturbances" all alone...maybe I look
more cocky and confident than I actually am, at times: "Waaah!! I
don't wanna be by myself! Help me Debs and Laura!! There's big nasty
men picking on me" :(
Beth :)
Herbert Kleebauer
> Correction: I've now spotted the "changes to the website" page and
> she's been altering things at least as recently as last month...so,
> okay, it is more than just "an encouraging sign"...it seems that,
> basically, she's working on that stuff and not posting here
> anymore...
Laura was very active in alt.mdsdos.batch till May 2002. But then (s)he
seems to got in contact with a Madonna sect. Now (s)he is only posting
in alt.fan.madonna as Madonna Rulez (LoveMrs...@madonnaweb.com)
wolfgang kern
"Beth" replied:
| I wrote:
| > Beth answered:
| > [...]
| > | Oh dear; I stress I never "told" nor "advised" nor "asked"...
| > Ok, Ok, I just reviewed my alt.os archive.
| > And I confirm you never said something like this literally.
| > I may have interpreted your 'flags' between the lines as advice.
| Sorry; I know you didn't mean to be nasty ...
| .... I am being a bit pendantic here...
| ...as I say, just "setting the record straight" and that's all :)...
No it's on me to apologise,
it was impolite to sell my mind as "Beth's" advice.
Even I mentioned your name between two jokes just to salute at your throne :)
| ...perhaps it's due the lack of knowing all words by heart.
| > As I use a reduced collection of terms my posts may be understood easier.
| I'd say it's mostly the first and only a very small amount of the second...
| I say this because ...
Agreed, the second is valid for non-native's only.
Native speakers may have to read twice....
| > | ...but, simply, there was an opportunity to make a joke out of it
| > | and I can _never_ resist such temptations...one of my many failings :)
| > Nothing wrong with your sense of humour, reading parameters only is boring.
| Oh, there is something wrong with my humour in the personal sense that
| it means I'm pretty twisted in places...
So what, if I'd find myself schizophrenic doubled, I'd ask to be paid twice! :):)
| ...not every thread should turn into a political debate
Oh yes, I would sign this! :)
| ...I really have to remember to re-focus on the matter at hand from
| time to time or it just turns into "pointless wandering"...
| which reminds me, in fact, of an oriental "stock phrase"...
"The way is the target"? (yes if the way ends at a target; my point of view)
| ...I've got to learn to discipline myself ......
| ...because I really, really do "wander" and get easily distracted...
I know exactly what you're talking about..
| ...I'm - hopefully not in vain - trying to discipline myself to get
| more into a "routine" about things so that I end up doing as much work
| as I know I'm capable of...
As I try (with some success):
modifiers:
always sleep until complete refreshed (regardless of the day-time),
start with code-work right after breakfast,
have small meals only (keep the blood in the brain),
have a break whenever concentration weakens (leave PC site!),
don't see the PC seven days per week.
goals:
split a huge work (as BethTool) into small projects
(gain motivation by early acknowledge with sub-targets),
create a hand-written "job-list" and nail it to the wall,
don't add or change this list until all items are marked as "done",
note side-effect-ideas elsewhere.
net, games, sex, other distractions:
only after some work already completed and too tired to start a new part.
| I'm actually a pretty fast coder -... ...quite ironic, really,
| I tend to be a "victim" of what _should_ be my own "strengths" :)...
I really envy your typing speed,
I would need a whole day for just one "Beth-sized" post. :)
(perhaps one reason for I code in hex?)
Yes, as a local saying mentions "every pet-bird needs it's chat",
we programmers easy isolate ourselves from the human society,
not in our opinion, but with the many hours "talking" to a machine.
So we may suffer on lack of communication with real people,
and the job-specific NG's allows us a chat under the title "work" !? :)
[Shakespeare,Bible and the Camel]
fully agree!
| And, yes, this really does beg the question:
| "What, though, about all those bits of language and culture that haven't survived?
| The things that even our best 'experts' on these things know nothing about
| because they've been totally lost, possibly for all time?"
It is rumoured that the Vatican's Library holds (hides) many scrolls which may be key to a different (not so holy) interpretation to
the whole story.
Once they will be translated and published, or destroyed by religious fanatics?
["Jihad" and "Crusade" ]
| Just one word and it can have this much effect! ......
Seems people believe in flaming words...
AFAIR the Moslems year is 622 below the Christian count.
So 2002 - 622 = 1380 , a time
when Crusaders burned and killed everything not cross-signed.
We need to wait for about 600 years to see the Moslems as moderate
as the Christians are now.
[IRA]
I don't understand, equal cultures with common commercial interests..,
seems to be more a tradition rather than a fight for freedom.
We Austrians also 'fight' the "bigger" Germany,
but we do this with jokes, soccer (w/o success) and downhill-races.
| "Sticks and stones may break my bones,
| But words can get you killed..."
| [ Twisting of a child's rhyme so that it actually reflects the truth ]
I see the verbal communication as unnatural,
perhaps the sound of a "magic" word invokes instinctive features.
| > I would be interested how history-books in thousand years explain all this.
| Yes, we'd be on page 175, listed as "yet more of the same; ....
sounds like 1984 becomes true lately!
| Without doubt, we'll be looked back on as greedy, short-sighted,...
I'm afraid the history will just be displayed as common,
interpreted as needed by the rulers.
|..beggars can't be choosers...plants, animals, fish, etc....
I think natural evolution is based on logical facts,
I mean good/bad experience modifies the DNA itself,
a attempt to change always got a reason,
so the next generations are prepared without any teaching-process.
Even plants are able to learn, in a slow, but very effective way.
If you look at our planet from distance, you see large wheat-fields
serviced by humans and their machinery....
Or watch the ants in their states and the behaviour of the 'individuals' there,
everything looks perfect, ..since several millions of years..
Humans are far away from being on top of the evaluation...
We just at the babies-status trying and checking everything..
A long way to go before we find our 'final' place in the universe,
we just started the search, hoping not to become distinct early.
| Did you know that one interesting thing is required for speech that
| is, in animal terms, an unusual ability...that is, humans can hold
| their breath...
? seals, whales, beavers,..., dolphins and parrots, .. Ok, they chat a lot :)
But I see you meant the fine tuned conscious control of the out-breathe.
[Darwin, Wallace, Dawkin]
It took me some time to get through, interesting indeed!
[the "audio thinker"]
| ...It is a weird thing about the way my brain is wired up,...
Perhaps your ears work much better than your other sensors,
so your brain operates the sound with top priority?
When I was much younger than today I had really good eyes,
I got more details on a glimpse than others,
this allowed to recognise complex situations much faster,
perhaps this trained my brain.
Now my eyes are worn-out, but at least the brain still works... :)
"extraordinary" talents...
are often the result of extra-ordinary interest?
[other "audio quirks"]
| ...it's hard to explain but it's just there in my
| brain whenever I hear something said indistinctly)...
The 'wrong' interpretation may come from the attempt to interpolate
and fill the gaps with "semi"-sounding elements of the 'library'.
I know about this, perhaps we like to be perfect all the time?
If you give yourself more time to check other similarities until
the heard fragments can be completed with a sense.
The result may be wrong and funny also, but not senseless.
| There's also another weird quirk that I've noticed over time...when
| things are out of tune or off-pitch, it really makes me whince and
| it's almost painful...not real actual pain but, you know,....
Yes I know, I repaired audio-equipment for several years.
And I wonder how many people listen to squeezed music without notice.
| ...it's only a subtle difference and nothing that would ever make me
| famous or hailed as a "genius" or anything extreme like that...
| just a minor difference but it's a genuine one...
| I'm very much an "audio" person in quite unusual ways...
Only abnormal brains are able to think the uncommon things...
[lyrics, emotion]
Agreed, but many people can't associate the lines with the music.
[Psychologically...movie-tracks]
Sound in TV-commercials show us this is an serious science these days.
| Another thing that's honestly only just dawned on me right now as I
| type...I choose to type as I speak...I can't believe I never made the
| connection to "audio" thinking before...it's plainly obvious that's
| why I feel most comfortable typing in this unusual way...because I can
| "speak" it onto the page, so to speak, and think in an audio rather
| than written manner...am I dumb or am I dumb? (Don't answer that one,
| if you value your life...hehehe ;) I knew all about my "audio" thing
| all the time and only now I've made the connection that this is yet
| another "non-standard" thing that is surely coming from my strange
| "audio thinking"...oh dear, it seems I've gotten so used to it that
| even something this obvious isn't actually obvious at all that I
| completely missed this until now, when you've indirectly made me think
| this stuff through and "speak" it aloud...ummm, basically, a minor
| "wow!" moment there :)
| --
| * ...another quirk: my audio memory is roughly like a tape recorder...
| --
No headphones, no batteries, no plastic-gadget,
try to transmit this feature to your successors via DNA. :) ,but serious
| ... if you're chatting, wouldn't that stuff actually be more
| the primary purpose - interacting with people socially - and the
| actual stuff you discuss - important, yes - but sort of
| "secondary"...when we chat here, it doesn't matter quite so much what
| the topic is about, really, does it? The enjoyment comes from the
| chatting itself...well, that's what I feel anyway...
Definitely a Yes especial in this sub-thread.
The other way around if a newbe needs a hint, or someone pick on my os.
| but then us women are always accused of talking too much and being
| obsessed with pointless chat and gossip
| (though, of course, the reverse perspective is just as valid...
| am I talking too much or is everyone else not giving enough back for
| the whole "social interaction" thing and, perhaps, those you accuse
| of "chatting too much" are probably doing so because it's an attempt
| to encourage someone else to respond...I
| suppose the way to tell the difference...and there is a difference,
| not all women talk too much - that's just sexist slander - because,
| yes, I know people who talk too much of both genders...the test I'd
| guess is whether they are happy to let people interrupt and get in
| their opinions...if they don't, they _are_ talking too much...if not,
| it's probably more that _you're_ not talking enough, instead...hehehe ;)...
AFAIR I never said you talk too much,
I only see your average post-size growing to 60K. :)
But I never would mention that! :)
Even a split in sub-threads may make answering easier.
[]
| > So finally I'll end up as a poem-author?
| Why not? For something fun to do in your retirement,
| it doesn't sound all bad, does it? :)
Sure not, I'll keep in mind.
__
wolfgang
bv_schornak
>| >Quality of meals, beer and coffee determines the standard of a culture!
>|
>| Agreed! Great definition! Best published under the terms of the LGPL -
>| hurry, somebody could steal it...
>
>I don't care about the copyright, you may use it.(even it's a common saying)
>
I _never_ steal other peoples intellectual property! ;)
>| Try <http://www.archaeologie-online.de/>, then you know the same! ;)
>| I know much more about ancient Egypt than about European history...
>Thanks, looks interesting, will search deeper during holydays....
>
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Beth
> Laura was very active in alt.mdsdos.batch till May 2002. But then
(s)he
> seems to got in contact with a Madonna sect. Now (s)he is only
posting
> in alt.fan.madonna as Madonna Rulez (LoveMrs...@madonnaweb.com)
Are you sure about this? No offence to her, but I had a look and
"Madonna Rulez" seems a bit demented...apparently, for example, she
claims Madonna gives us great words of wisdom about the "art of
living"?!? Like, for example, "Vogue" where she tells us the
importance of waving our hands around to music toward the struggle for
world peace...how do you know she went over to this Madonna sect? Were
you stalking her or something?
Beth :)
Herbert Kleebauer
I liked to read Laura's postings. She always had good ideas and a
very logical way to think. Before she stopped posting in alt.msdos.batch
she changed her email address and added a "Madonna" sig.
| --
| laura fairhead # la...@madonnaweb.com http://lf.8k.com
| # celebration sig. for her W/End debut.Can u crack it?
| mADonnAmaDOnnAmAdONnaMADoNNaMadOnNAmADOnnaMadonnamADoNNamaDOnNamadONnA
| madoNnamadoNnaMAdonNAmadoNnAMadOnnaMADOnnAmAdoNNaMadonNaMadoNnAMadonNA
| maDonnAMadOnnaMadonNaMadONnamaDONnAMaDoNnAMAdoNNAmaDoNnamAdOnnAmAdonna
| MadONNaMadoNnAmAdoNNAMadONNAmAdoNNamadoNnAmAdonnAmAdOnnamaDoNnaMAdonna
| madoNnAmaDOnnAmAdONnAMAdoNNamAdonnamAdOnnamadonnamadonnamadonnamadonna
I decoded this sig and posted it, but I don't think this has anything
to do with her disappearance, because in her last post in alt.msdos.batch
she wrote:
| --
| laura fairhead # la...@madonnaweb.com http://lf.8k.com
| # congratulations to Madonna, you were smashing!!
| # sig cracked by Herbert Kleebauer on Thurs 23rd May
| # new one soon...
As there were no more postings from Laura, I first thought, she had
some holidays. But after a few weeks I got worried and used google
to find some information. I found her postings at www.madonnaforum.com
using the name "LoveMo", were she also gave some personal information.
So I did know, she was ok (although she seems to have some personal
problems).
I hope Laura will come back to the technical newsgroups and continue
her interesting postings.
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> > > Laura was very active in alt.mdsdos.batch till May 2002. But
then (s)he
> > > seems to got in contact with a Madonna sect. Now (s)he is only
posting
> > > in alt.fan.madonna as Madonna Rulez
(LoveMrs...@madonnaweb.com)
> >
> > Are you sure about this? No offence to her, but I had a look and
> > "Madonna Rulez" seems a bit demented...apparently, for example,
she
> > claims Madonna gives us great words of wisdom about the "art of
> > living"?!? Like, for example, "Vogue" where she tells us the
> > importance of waving our hands around to music toward the struggle
for
> > world peace...how do you know she went over to this Madonna sect?
Were
> > you stalking her or something?
>
> I liked to read Laura's postings. She always had good ideas and a
> very logical way to think. Before she stopped posting in
alt.msdos.batch
> she changed her email address and added a "Madonna" sig.
> As there were no more postings from Laura, I first thought, she had
> some holidays. But after a few weeks I got worried and used google
> to find some information. I found her postings at
www.madonnaforum.com
> using the name "LoveMo", were she also gave some personal
information.
> So I did know, she was ok (although she seems to have some personal
> problems).
>
> I hope Laura will come back to the technical newsgroups and continue
> her interesting postings.
Yes; Not least because looking at "Madonna Rulez" on that newsgroup,
even taking into account that it is a Madonna-specific fan group (so
it's going to have lots of "Madonna is the greatest!" stuff in it by
definition :), she seems so extremely obsessed by Madonna...that was
the reason why I was double-checking that you were totally sure about
this, because it seems nothing like how Laura was before...consumed by
a "Madonna sect" might even be understating it...
Oh well...the most important thing is that she's happy, I
suppose...and, yes, mild insanity is one way to manage happiness in
this often twisted world...and there are worse Golden Oxes of blind
worship than Madonna out there because at least she does do the odd
good tune (and, risking turning into a member of the Madonna sect
myself, she has to be _the_ most strongest female role model out
there...never compromising her femininity in the slightest but showing
that it is easily the equal of masculinity...perhaps one of the only
female stars who does sometimes "show a little flesh" that is doing so
100% on her own terms and not to please dirty old record executives
(hello Britney and Christina's new "images")...in light of recent
posts, maybe there should be a "fan" pointing her out to all those who
have brains stuck somewhere in the Victorian era ;)...
Beth :)
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-15 BethS...@hotmail.com said:
>Are you sure about this? No offence to her, but I had a look and
>"Madonna Rulez" seems a bit demented...apparently, for example, she
>claims Madonna gives us great words of wisdom about the "art of
>living"?!?
_____
Kinda like Bono...eh, Beth? ((( `\
Hehehe! \ _ _`\ )
(^ ) )
~-( )
_'((,,,)))
,-' \_/ `\
( , |
`-.-'`-.-'/|_|
\ / | |
=()=: / ,'aa
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Beth
> Beth wrote:
> >Are you sure about this? No offence to her, but I had a look and
> >"Madonna Rulez" seems a bit demented...apparently, for example,
she
> >claims Madonna gives us great words of wisdom about the "art of
> >living"?!?
>
> Hehehe!
Touche'; "Do not judge, lest thou be judged thyself", isn't it?
Although, I was only suggesting that he puts effort into his lyrics
that, unlike most pop lyrics, they aren't just throw away
"doo-wop-ee-wop" garbage...though a "fan" (both Bono and Madonna, in
fact :), I was merely trying to suggest "give the guy's lyrics a
chance because it's more than throw away garbage" (mostly; Sometimes
it is just nonsense, I will admit :) rather than "Bono is the one and
only true prophet of the Lord" or something extreme like that...
Am I being paranoid or are you just here, Annie, to annoy me or
something? hehehe :)
Beth :)
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-16 BethS...@hotmail.com said:
> Am I being paranoid or are you just here, Annie, to
> annoy me or something? hehehe :)
_____
Not really, Beth. But when I ((( `\
see an obvious philosophical _ _`\ )
dichotomy, I have to point (^ ) )
it out. The fact is, Madonna ~-( )
and Bono BOTH suck. _'((,,,)))
,-' \_/ `\
"Barbie Girl" by Aqua has ( , |
more depth than anything `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
Bono ever wrote. \ / | |
=[]=: / ,'
Sorry if it annoys you, but / `\ '
facts are facts. : \/ )
| / ;
You've been coming up with | / /
some really nutty stuff |/ /
lately, Beth. I'm getting ( <
worried about you. Are you \ \
off your meds again? Hehehe! | \ \
| \ \
Anyhow, I'm WAY cuter than |___\___\
Laura Fairhead. The Madonna `--'_/ _) aa
newsgroup can have her. `--'
CP/M-86 Fan
"Annie Ascii" <annie...@oal.com> wrote in message...
> "Barbie Girl" by Aqua has ((( `\
> more depth than anything _ _`\ )
> Bono ever wrote. (^ ) )
~-( )
Ha! That will be the day. _'((,,,)))
,-' \_/ `\
> Sorry if it annoys you, but ( , |
> facts are facts. `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
\ / | |
Facts maybe facts, however it's each & =[]=: / ,'
everyone to their own opinion! :-) / `\ '
: \/ )
> You've been coming up with | / ;
> some really nutty stuff | / /
> lately, Beth. I'm getting |/ /
> worried about you. Are you ( <
> off your meds again? Hehehe! \ \
| \ \
I've been somewhat concerned about | \ \
'Anonymous Guy', did you pinch his |___\___\
computer? Humm! :-) `--'_/ _) aa
`--'
_____ ____ __ _ _ ____ ___
/ ) / \ / / | \ / | / \ / )
| / | o | / / | \ / | ( ) /
| | | __/ / / | \ / | ___ \____/ |_____
| | | | / / | \_/ | |___| / \ | \
| \ | | / / | |\ /| | ( ) | |
\_____) (_) /_/ |_| \___/ |_| \____/ \____/
_____ __ __ __ ____ _______ ___
/ \ | | | | | | | __| | / | |
| o | | | | | | | | |__ |___ / | |
| / | | | | | | | | / / |___|
| |\ \ | | | | | | | __| / / _
| | \ \ ( }___{ ) | |___ | |__ / /__ / \
(_) \__\ \_______/ |______| |____| /_____| (___)
wolfgang kern
"Bernhard" wrote:
| >| >Quality of meals, beer and coffee determines the standard of a culture!
| >| Agreed! Great definition! Best published under the terms of the LGPL -
| >| hurry, somebody could steal it...
| >I don't care about the copyright, you may use it.(even it's a common saying)
| I _never_ steal other peoples intellectual property! ;)
:o)
| Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
|
| Greetings from Augsburg
|
| Bernhard Schornak
Good wishes in return!
--
KESYS development
wolfgang
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > annoy me or something? hehehe :)
>
> dichotomy, I have to point it out. The fact is, Madonna
> and Bono BOTH suck.
Granted, mixed messages given...but it isn't really a philosophical
dichotomy...I'd go into it to explain but I've a distinct feeling you
couldn't give a crap hearing about it...so I won't bother...
> "Barbie Girl" by Aqua has more depth than anything Bono
> ever wrote.
Aqua: Tribute to a plastic doll and loose reference to the ficitious
hero Indianna Jones in second song which didn't do all that well in
the charts...
Bono: Tributes to Martin Luthor King's assassination, the tradegy of
rival / friend Micheal Hutchence's death, Elvis, Bob Dylan, commentary
on Northern Ireland, Apartheid, religion, corporate greed, the fall of
communism, wife-beating, environmental issues, loss of family members,
over-commercialisation (generally with an album and specifically of
Christmas in a song), Jesus, racism / Nazism, humanity / unity,
disassociation of media from reality, evolution of technology and its
effects on humankind, the European union (sarcastically "united" by
advertising slogans: over-commercialisation), apathy / lethargy,
nuclear war, Bosnian war, ethnic cleansing, loneliness, Liberty, Hope,
beginning a new life and this only scratches the surface because U2
have been around for decades...there's also songs which aren't meant
to have any depth such as the amusing series of double entendres that
is "Elevation"...and, always, throughout, as God Part II comes
straight out and says, he believes in Love, which is good enough for
me without all the rest...
> Sorry if it annoys you, but facts are facts.
Facts are, indeed, facts; Opinions, though, are opinions...you seem
unable to make a clear distinction between the two, reporting one as
the other...
> You've been coming up with some really nutty stuff
> lately, Beth. I'm getting worried about you. Are you
> off your meds again? Hehehe!
Actually, yes, I have, haven't I? I've just not been on best form
lately...too much running around like a headless chicken and not
enough sleep, I reckon...too much nonsense uttered of the non-amusing
variety...I do apologise, Annie...being two dimensional ASCII
characters, perhaps that extra dimension us humans have not to always
be perfect is a little puzzling for you to comprehend...
> Anyhow, I'm WAY cuter than Laura Fairhead. The Madonna
> newsgroup can have her.
Oh well, then, that more than makes up for it...as long as there's one
cute person left, the rest of the newsgroup is "surplus to
requirements" and we can all disappear...
Beth :)
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
--The Mosquito Scriptkiddiot.
http://b3ta.com/top-10-cutest-kittens/
;p
CP/M-86 Fan
"The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot" <anothe...@aol.comnospam> wrote in
message...
> hey beth lets get married for a week it'll be fun as hell i promise ;p
Beth, are you sure the ScriptKid is fine?
ScriptKid your really got to track down your old school girl sweetheart, the
only way to do that is to make it happen! :-)
<Anyone Got some ASM I can fill in here!>
wolfgang kern
"Beth" answered "Annie Ascii":
[..]
Please excuse my impolite interruption.
for Beth:
Please have a look at AOD Re: repository
Mark White already started with...
As you "ignitioned" this idea, your opinion and maybe any help may be of interest there.
BTW: When I answer one of your larger posts,
(I need some time for that, so it may be delayed),
I find my answer on a dead end thread ? ;)
[i.e: Dec.10/11 within this thread]
-------
for Annie Ascii:
Perhaps you assume everybody uses an equal spaced font?
Be aware that some character-sets let the moogies touch the knees! :)
Or you better exhibit your shape in a web-cam area.
Nevertheless, some fun is always welcome between the serious stuff.
-------
__
wolfgang (the "annoying insister")
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan"wrote:
[]
| only way to do that is to make it happen! :-)
Lets ask him about his age!
Kids got kid's behaviour....
| <Anyone Got some ASM I can fill in here!>
how about:
cli
jmp short $-2
or use the macro "mega-out" (code 26 2e 36 3e 64 65 66 67 ef)
or just it's short form 66 ef.
Do you need more like that? :)
__
wolfgang
CP/M-86 Fan
"wolfgang kern" <now...@nevernet.at> wrote in message...
> for Annie Ascii:
> Perhaps you assume everybody uses an equal spaced font?
It is possible to set an equal space font under Windoze. In Outlook you
would go into the Options area, click on the Read tab then click on the
Fonts button, make sure that the two top lines reads Courier New, also click
on the Compose tab (at the top) & make sure the font reads Courier New 9pt
otherwise click on the Font settings & set it to those parameters. :-)
> Be aware that some character-sets let the moogies touch the knees! :)
That's because you're not using a true fixed width font as your fixed width
font, if it reads Times New Roman or some crappy font like that change it to
Courier New which is one of the few fixed width fonts.
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
i'm 19, im thinking of getting a new nick...any ideas??
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan" replied:|
| I wrote:
| > ..Be aware that some character-sets let the moogies touch the knees! :)
| That's because you're not using a true fixed width font as your fixed width
| font, if it reads Times New Roman or some crappy font like that change it to
| Courier New which is one of the few fixed width fonts.
Thanks I knew, it was just a bit kidding post.
__
wolfgang
wolfgang kern
"The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot" mentioned:
| im not a kid anymore :\
| i'm 19, im thinking of getting a new nick...any ideas??
How about "Nearly Adultiot" :)
I'm 54 and still joking/kidding sometimes.
But within a range which shouldn't hurt.
__
wolfgang
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-19 anothe...@aol.comnospam (The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot) said:
> im not a kid anymore :\
> i'm 19, im thinking of getting a new nick...any ideas??
_____
How about "The Illage Vidiot?" ((( `\ _
Or maybe "Mosquito Byte?" _ _`\ |-)
Of course, your ex-girlfriend (^ ? )(()
tells me she calls you "Short ~- '`/' ())
Stuff." Hehehe! \ _' \__()))
,-' /'\'
( `\-(---/'\ |
`-.-'`-.-'/| |
\ / | |
;. ( / ,'
/=[]==\ '
: \/ )
| / ;
;=/===='
|/ /
( (
\ \
\ )
)\ (
_/`_\ \
`" _/ _) aa
`"
CP/M-86 Fan
"The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot" <anothe...@aol.comnospam> wrote in
message...
> im not a kid anymore :\
> i'm 19, im thinking of getting a new nick...any ideas??
Well that's not too bad. When I was your age 5-6 years now, I got along well
with few of the ladies (at High School). Don't you have someone like that?
or were you the assistant to the Computer Administrator at that School. As
usual I could be totally wrong here (which is usually the case) & did far
more important things (except being at school) or studying something else.
I've been told that if you know someone from school it's a good way of
making a relationship (but then I could have been listening to some old
drunk walking on the street), last people to meet are the ones in sleezy
pubs, clubs, dance clubs etc. But I reckon if you build a relationship from
someone within a workplace this could also be bad (if it's a big work
environment & you get someone who brags on a bit, it could become something
which you don't want the whole office to know), but that really depends on
the person.
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
>with few of the ladies (at High School). Don't you have someone like that?
>or were you the assistant to the Computer Administrator at that School. As
>usual I could be totally wrong here (which is usually the case) & did far
>more important things (except being at school) or studying something else.
>I've been told that if you know someone from school it's a good way of
>making a relationship (but then I could have been listening to some old
>drunk walking on the street), last people to meet are the ones in sleezy
>pubs, clubs, dance clubs etc. But I reckon if you build a relationship from
>someone within a workplace this could also be bad (if it's a big work
>environment & you get someone who brags on a bit, it could become something
>which you don't want the whole office to know), but that really depends on
>the person.
heheh...good advice...but...i didn't say anything about a relationship..??!!.
i dont have anyone like that, and never will...i dont believe in such
trivialities in life ;p
any idea what my new nick should be...im thinking of 'The Mosquito Coder'
Frank Kotler
> any idea what my new nick should be...im thinking of 'The Mosquito
> Coder'
That sounds better to me - your posts indicate that you're neither an
"idiot", nor a "script kiddie". I always think of addressing you as
"'Skeeter", for short, but mindful of my advice to Beth about messing
with people's names, I have refrained, so far...
> --The Mosquito Scriptkiddiot. http://b3ta.com/top-10-cutest-kittens/
> ;p
Hmmm, this isn't *nearly* as cute as the last time I clicked on it. Used
to be, you could save that third kitten from the right for me. Now, it's
pretty boring... Such is life...
Best,
Frank
bv_schornak
>i dont have anyone like that, and never will...i dont believe in such
>trivialities in life ;p
>
That's it - never give up your freedom! ;)
>any idea what my new nick should be...im thinking of 'The Mosquito Coder'
>
Yep. May be upgraded to "ScriptExpert", "ScriptDoctor" and so on! :-D
Frank Kotler
> How about "The Illage Vidiot?" ((( `\ _
> Or maybe "Mosquito Byte?" _ _`\ |-)
> Of course, your ex-girlfriend (^ ? )(()
> tells me she calls you "Short ~- '`/' ())
> Stuff." Hehehe! \ _' \__()))
> ,-' /'\'
> ( . ( . \ |
> `-.-'`-.-'/| |
> \ / | |
> ; ( / ,'
> / \ '
> : \/ )
> | / ;
> ; / .'`
> |/ /
> ( (
> \ \
> \ )
> )\ (
> _/`_\ \
> `" _/ _) aa
> `"
In case of a type-mismatch, either one's too small, or the other's too
big...
I've always heard that "Asm programmers do it with huge pointers and
little nibbles" (HLL programmers don't know about the nibbles). But
maybe Mosquito ScriptKiddiot's ex didn't like it "anotherway"...
Best,
Frank
CP/M-86 Fan
"Frank Kotler" <fbko...@attbi.com> wrote in message...
> > --The Mosquito Scriptkiddiot. http://b3ta.com/top-10-cutest-kittens/
> > ;p
>
> Hmmm, this isn't *nearly* as cute as the last time I clicked on it. Used
> to be, you could save that third kitten from the right for me. Now, it's
> pretty boring... Such is life...
Well on my machine I just saw one kitten (where's the other 9?!).
Why is all that flashing on the screen causing my screen to increase 1mm
each side?
CP/M-86 Fan
"The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot" <anothe...@aol.comnospam> wrote in
message...
> >Well that's not too bad. When I was your age 5-6 years now, I got along
well
> >with few of the ladies (at High School). Don't you have someone like
that?
> >or were you the assistant to the Computer Administrator at that School.
As
> >usual I could be totally wrong here (which is usually the case) & did far
> >more important things (except being at school) or studying something
else.
> >I've been told that if you know someone from school it's a good way of
> >making a relationship (but then I could have been listening to some old
> >drunk walking on the street), last people to meet are the ones in sleezy
> >pubs, clubs, dance clubs etc. But I reckon if you build a relationship
from
> >someone within a workplace this could also be bad (if it's a big work
> >environment & you get someone who brags on a bit, it could become
something
> >which you don't want the whole office to know), but that really depends
on
> >the person.
>
> heheh...good advice...but...i didn't say anything about a
relationship..??!!.
Maybe you should! ;-)
> i dont have anyone like that, and never will...i dont believe in such
> trivialities in life ;p
Unfortunately I'm taking you too seriously when your talking about 'Marrying
Beth'. 'Nuff Said!
> any idea what my new nick should be...im thinking of 'The Mosquito Coder'
How about 'Assembly Antz'?! :-]
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-20 fbko...@attbi.com said:
>In case of a type-mismatch, either one's too small, or the other's
>too big...
_____
Frank, your "diddle" of my ((( `\
ASCII image was just AWFUL! _ _`\ )
I don't have "saddlebag" hips, (^ ) )
and my moogies are much more ~-( )
substantial than you depicted _'((,,,)))
them. ,-' `\
(0 ( 0 , |
This is a more accurate `-.-'`-.-'/| |
representation. \ / | |
;. ( / ,'
Anyway, you dirty old man, / \ '
you should be ashamed. I'm : \/ )
young enough to be your : / '
GRANDdaughter! : / ,'
`/ .'
Better stick to ASM coding, ( (
and forget any aspirations \ \
to art. Hehehe! \ )
)\ (
Love, _/`_\ \
Annie `" _/ _) aa
`"
BTW, I "diddled" your TINYCLK program. It worked, but it
was done in typical ham-fisted male stylelessness. So I
cleaned it up, and added some niceties. Only 150 bytes.
;
; TINYCLK2.ASM [For 16-Bit DOS Assemblers]
; Continuously displays the time on the screen, until a key is pressed.
;
; Hardware requirement: 386 or higher.
;
; The code section labelled "clock:" was written by qs...@aol.com
;
code segment
org 100h
;
; Check for 386 or higher.
;
push sp
pop bx
cmp bx,sp
jne below_386
push 0F000h
popf
pushf
pop cx
and ch,0F0h
je below_386
;
; Turn cursor off.
;
mov ch,10h ;set bits to turn cursor off
mov cl,0 ; ditto
mov ah,1 ;function 1 - cursor control
int 10h ;call ROM BIOS video services
;
; Print 'The time is' line.
;
mov ah,9
mov dx,offset time
int 21h
;
; Get and print the time-of-day.
;
clock:
mov ah,2
int 1Ah ;time in BCD, dl=0
push cx
push dx
db 66h ;make next instruction 32-bit (pop eax)
pop ax
m1:
mov al,163
sub dl,160 ;gives c,c,nc,c,c,nc,c,nc+z
ja $+3 ;hh:mm:ss
db 66h ;make next instruction 32-bit (rol eax,4)
rol ax,4
int 29h
jne m1
;
; Reset the cursor to start of time display.
;
mov cx,8
looper1:
mov al,08
int 29h
loop looper1
;
; Check for user keypress.
;
mov ah,1
int 16h
jz clock
mov ah,0
int 16h
;
; Erase the time display.
;
mov al,13
int 29h
mov cx,20
looper2:
mov al,32
int 29h
loop looper2
;
; Turn cursor on, and exit.
;
mov ch,5 ;set bits to turn cursor on
mov cl,6 ; ditto
mov ah,1 ;function 1 - cursor control
int 10h ;call ROM BIOS video services
int 20h ;exit to DOS
;
; Print 'no 386' error message, and exit.
;
below_386:
mov dx,offset no386
mov ah,9
int 21h
int 20h
;
no386 db 13,10,'386 or higher required.',13,10,07,'$'
time db 13,10,'The time is $'
;
end
Frank Kotler
_____
> Frank, your "diddle" of my ((( `\
> ASCII image was just AWFUL! _ _`\ )
> I don't have "saddlebag" hips, (^ ) )
> and my moogies are much more ~-( )
> substantial than you depicted _'((,,,)))
> them. ,-' `\
> (0 ( 0 , |
> This is a more accurate `-.-'`-.-'/| |
> representation. \ / | |
;. ( / ,'
Frankie *like* bon-bons! : \/ )
: / '
> Anyway, you dirty old man, : / ,'
> you should be ashamed. I'm `/ .'
> young enough to be your ( (
> GRANDdaughter! \ \
\ )
Cool! Takes less viagra that way. )\ (
Ummm, you *are* over sixteen, aren't _/`_\ \
you, little girl? `" _/ _) aa
`"
> Better stick to ASM coding, and forget any aspirations
> to art. Hehehe!
True, my artistic skills are even worse than my coding skills. Sorry I
underestimated your lovely attributes.
> BTW, I "diddled" your TINYCLK program. It worked, but it
> was done in typical ham-fisted male stylelessness. So I
> cleaned it up, and added some niceties. Only 150 bytes.
My first reaction to this was that more than six times increase in size
was a lot, just to say "this is the time" - what did you think it was,
CPU temperature? Of course, you check for a 386. I've always felt that
simply hanging the computer hard is so much more *emphatic* an error
message than just whining about it, don't you think? And you continue
showing the time. If you show me the time once, I can figure out what
the next second is going to be, can't I?
Then I realized my error. In designing the user interface, I'd forgotten
the important fact that women like to be "talked to"! Typical oblivious
male pig! Well, now that you've pointed out the error of my ways,
perhaps I can improve on it. This is bloated out another four times or
so, but it's nice and verbose...
> ; TINYCLK2.ASM [For 16-Bit DOS Assemblers]
Looks like Flz828 isn't the only one who needs a real assembler. Well,
since we're not going to rely on qscgx's cleverness to keep it short, I
eliminated the 32-bit register to make it easier for less powerful
processors and assemblers. Don't really know what an XT will make of
that bios call...
Best,
Frank
;--------------------------------------
; nasm -f bin -o talkclk.com talkclk.asm
org 100h
section .text
mov ah, 3 ; get cursor position and size
int 10h
mov [old_cur_pos], dx
mov [old_cur_siz], cx
;
; Turn cursor off. Thanks, Annie.
;
mov ch,10h ;set bits to turn cursor off
mov cl,0 ; ditto
mov ah,1 ;function 1 - cursor control
int 10h ;call ROM BIOS video services
tell_time:
mov si, time_msg
call printz
mov ah, 2 ; get time
clc ; avoid possible bug (see RBIL)
int 1Ah ; bios time functions
jnc clock_good ; carry clear, we're okay
mov si, err_msg ; clock stopped, busy
call printz ; or otherwise unavailable - XT ?
jmp egress
clock_good:
mov al, ch ; hour
mov word [am_pm_msg], am_msg
or al, al
jnz not_midnite
mov al, 12h
jmp short good_hour
not_midnite:
cmp al, 12h
je noon
cmp al, 13h
jc good_hour
sub al, 12h
das
noon:
mov word [am_pm_msg], pm_msg
good_hour:
mov word [no_tens_msg], null_msg
mov word [onestab], ones0 ; say "zero", if zero
call al2eng
mov al, cl ; minute
mov word [onestab], o_clock ; if no minutes, say "o'clock"
mov word [no_tens_msg], oh_msg ; and "one oh one"...
call al2eng
mov word[onestab], ones0 ; say "zero" again...
mov word[no_tens_msg], null_msg ; (horrible kludge!)
mov si, and_msg
call printz
mov al, dh ; seconds
call al2eng
mov si, sex_msg ; "secs", that is...
call printz
mov si, [am_pm_msg]
call printz
mov dx, [old_cur_pos]
mov ah, 2
int 10h
mov ah, 1 ; key pressed?
int 16h
jz tell_time ; no, keep talking
xor ah, ah ; eat the key
int 16h
mov al, ' ' ; erase the line
mov ah, 9
mov cx, 79
xor bx, bx
int 10h
egress:
mov ah, 1
mov cx, [old_cur_siz]
int 10h
mov ah, 4Ch
int 21h
;------------------
;------------------
al2eng:
; al is two digits bcd
push ax
push bx
push si
xor bx, bx
test al, 0F0h
jnz got_tens
or al, al
jz got_ones
mov si, [no_tens_msg]
call printz
jmp short got_ones
got_tens:
cmp al, 20h
jnc do_tens
mov bl, al
and bl, 0Fh
add bl, 10
jmp short teens_and_ones
do_tens:
mov bl, al
sub bl, 20h ; tens table starts at 20 :)
and bl, 0F0h
shr bl, 1
shr bl, 1
shr bl, 1
mov si, [tenstab + bx]
call printz
got_ones:
test al, 0Fh
jnz do_ones ; we *do* want to print "zero" if
or al, al
jnz nomo ; that's all there is, else not.
do_ones
mov bl, al
and bl, 0Fh
teens_and_ones: ; re-entry point for teens
shl bx, 1
mov si, [onestab + bx]
call printz
nomo:
pop si
pop bx
pop ax
ret
;-------------
;------------------
printz:
push ax
push si
mov ah, 0Eh
pz1:
lodsb
or al, al
jz pzdone
int 10h
jmp short pz1
pzdone:
pop si
pop ax
ret
;-------------------
;----------------------
section .data
err_msg db '- Honeeee, what time is it?', 13, 10, 0
time_msg db 'The time is now ', 0 ; but we knew that :)
and_msg db 'and ', 0
sex_msg db 'seconds, ', 0
o_clock db "o'clock ", 0
am_msg db 'AM. ', 0
pm_msg db 'PM. ', 0
null_msg db 0
oh_msg db 'oh ', 0
first20:
ones0 db 'zero ', 0
ones1 db 'one ', 0
ones2 db 'two ', 0
ones3 db 'three ', 0
ones4 db 'four ', 0
ones5 db 'five ', 0
ones6 db 'six ', 0
ones7 db 'seven ', 0
ones8 db 'eight ', 0
ones9 db 'nine ', 0
ones10 db 'ten ', 0
ones11 db 'eleven ', 0
ones12 db 'twelve ', 0
ones13 db 'thirteen ', 0
ones14 db 'fourteen ', 0
ones15 db 'fifteen ', 0
ones16 db 'sixteen ', 0
ones17 db 'seventeen ', 0
ones18 db 'eighteen ', 0
ones19 db 'nineteen ', 0
onestab dw ones0, ones1, ones2, ones3, ones4, ones5, ones6,
dw ones7, ones8, ones9, ones10, ones11, ones12, ones13
dw ones14, ones15, ones16, ones17, ones18, ones19
tens:
ten2 db 'twenty ', 0
ten3 db 'thirty ', 0
ten4 db 'forty ', 0
ten5 db 'fifty ', 0
ten6 db 'sixty ', 0
ten7 db 'seventy ', 0
ten8 db 'eighty ', 0
ten9 db 'ninety ', 0
tenstab dw ten2, ten3, ten4, ten5, ten6, ten7, ten8, ten9
;-----------------------------
;---------------------
section .bss
old_cur_pos resw 1
old_cur_siz resw 1
am_pm_msg resw 1
no_tens_msg resw 1
;---------------------
CP/M-86 Fan
"Annie Ascii" <annie...@oal.com> wrote in message ...
> >In case of a type-mismatch, either one's too small, or the other's
> >too big...
> _____
> Frank, your "diddle" of my ((( `\
> ASCII image was just AWFUL! _ _`\ )
> I don't have "saddlebag" hips, (^ ) )
> and my moogies are much more ~-( )
> substantial than you depicted _'((,,,)))
> them. *&^%$#@!@#$%^&*
> *&^%Censored^&*
> This is a more accurate *&^%$#@!@#$%^&*
> representation. \ / | |
Well I'd only wish that I could Censor ;. ( / ,'
this mess with my own eyes, absolutely *&^%$#@!@#$%^&*
appalling. *&^%Censored^&*
> Anyway, you dirty old man, *&^%$#@!@#$%^&*
> you should be ashamed. I'm : / ,'
> young enough to be your `/ .'
> GRANDdaughter! ( (
\ \
Weren't you the lady doing the streek \ )
last week at the Cricket? (now I know )\ (
where I've seen you before). _/`_\ \
`" _/ _) aa
Frank would have to be well into his 100's `"
if you were his Granddaughter (you
just seemed to look so old, but then I got
everything else mixed up with Females,
Sorry Ladies! )-: )
> Better stick to ASM coding,
> and forget any aspirations
> to art. Hehehe!
Pity! I've dabbled into a bit of Art in the past!.
> BTW, I "diddled" your TINYCLK program. It worked, but it
> was done in typical ham-fisted male stylelessness. So I
> cleaned it up, and added some niceties. Only 150 bytes.
>
Did I do anything to do with accessing Firmware through CP/M 2.2
on an Amstrad? (oh well here it is!)
Compile this bit into Devpac:
ORG #6000 ; Or just anywhere Devpac ain't loaded
LD A,(mo) ; 'mo' will be '00' when compiled - under TP '00'
; needs to be changed to mo. Because it's in the
; brackets the contents of it goes into 'A'
CALL #BE9B ; Enter Firmware (Specific to CP/M 2.2)
DEFW #BC0E ; This is our actual Firmware Call, in this case
; where setting the screen mode.
Take those values which Devpac gives you when assembled &
place them into an Inline M/C statement for Turbo Pascal,
so it should like this:
Inline($3A/mo/ { LD A,(mo) } {notice 'mo' has been added)
$CD/$9B/$BE/ { CALL $BE9B }
$0E/$BC); { DEFW $BC0E }
Put it into a procedure for calling:
Procedure Mode(mo:byte);
Begin
Inline($3A/mo/ { LD A,(mo) }
$CD/$9B/$BE/ { CALL $BE9B }
$0E/$BC); { DEFW $BC0E }
End;
In your program call it like this (e.g):
'mode(1);' {<- Valid Values are 0,1,2}
CP/M-86 Fan
"Frank Kotler" <fbko...@attbi.com> wrote in message...
> Oooh, bon-bons.
> Frankie *like* bon-bons!
Too bad there gone now! This of course makes you look bad!
> Cool! Takes less viagra that way.
> Ummm, you *are* over sixteen, aren't
> you, little girl?
Well if it's the same person I saw Streaking at the MCG for the Cricket they
would be over 50!
> True, my artistic skills are even worse than my coding skills. Sorry I
> underestimated your lovely attributes.
Go & find yourself a good old feel good movie & have a Merry Christmas!
(sounds like you need one).
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-21 fbko...@attbi.com said:
> Oooh, bon-bons. Frankie *like* bon-bons!
I'm so sure. But you're going to have to find your own supply
of bon-bons. Mine are off-limits.
> Ummm, you *are* over sixteen, aren't you, little girl?
Yes. But "no" means "no," Frankie. Hee!
> My first reaction to this was that more than six times increase in
> size was a lot, just to say "this is the time" - what did you think
> it was, CPU temperature? Of course, you check for a 386.
I also turn the cursor off, and cleverly erase the display
from the screen when the program exits.
> I've always felt that simply hanging the computer hard is so much
> more *emphatic* an error message than just whining about it, don't
> you think?
I think. But I don't think THAT.
> Then I realized my error. In designing the user interface, I'd
> forgotten the important fact that women like to be "talked to"!
Well, DUHHH! If you'd remembered, you might still be married
to your daughter's mother...and you'd have a readily accessible
stash of "bon-bons." You have to think of these things. Hehe!
> Well, now that you've pointed out the error of my ways, perhaps
> I can improve on it. This is bloated out another four times or
> so, but it's nice and verbose...
_*_
Beth appreciates it. Hehehe! /~ ~\
;;;;;;;;:
> Looks like Flz828 isn't the only _ _`\ )
> one who needs a real assembler. (^ ) )
~-( )
No way. 16-bit rokz! _-'((,,,)))
/' `=' `\
> Well, since we're not going to rely ( )
> on qscgx's cleverness to keep it \ `.. ( (
> short, I eliminated the 32-bit ( ) )
> register to make it easier for ( ( )
> less powerful processors and ) )/
> assemblers. (;;;;;;;;)
| / ;
Oh. Bummer. That NASM code is a mess. I'll | / /
have to translate it into a dialect that |/ /
someone can actually understand. ( <
\ \
Gawh...you stoic New Englandahs. No wonder | \ \
you keep electing socialists to Congress. | \ \
Nobody ever knows what the heck they're |___\___\
really SAYING. Hehehehe! `--'_/ _) aa
`--'
I had to bundle up, just thinking about those New England winters. :)
Al
coding lady! One thing I've definitely been noticing is that the
further we get into the future, the more women we see into computing.
Too bad the asm community is mostly male though.
Annie Ascii wrote:
>*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
>
>On 2002-12-15 BethS...@hotmail.com said:
>
> >Are you sure about this? No offence to her, but I had a look and
> >"Madonna Rulez" seems a bit demented...apparently, for example, she
> >claims Madonna gives us great words of wisdom about the "art of
> >living"?!?
> _____
> Kinda like Bono...eh, Beth? ((( `\
> Hehehe! \ _ _`\ )
> (^ ) )
> ~-( )
> _'((,,,)))
> ,-' \_/ `\
> ( , |
> `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
> \ / | |
> =()=: / ,'aa
Lyle Goldman
Hello. Your last name is really Ascii? Is that an Italian name?
Is your last name pronounced like the word ASCII, or is it pronounced
differently?
- Lyle Goldman, U.S.A.
Annie...@aol.com wrote:
>
> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
> (To view the ASCII image properly, either switch to a
> monospaced font, or paste this message into 'Notepad.')
>
> _____
> Hi, everybody. My name is Annie Ascii. ((( `\
> Since Beth Stone has abdicated her _ _`\ )
> position as "queen" of this newsgroup (^ ) )
> by refusing to post, I'm hereby taking ~-( )
> over as the new reigning female. Hehe! _'((,,,)))
> ,-' \_/ `\
> If any of you guys are having problems ( , |
> with your ASM code, just post your `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
> questions here. I'll be happy to help. \ / | |
> =()=: / ,'
> I'll also be posting tutorials from time ,' \ '
> to time about how to "crack" WinDoze, | )
> and do things that Bill Gates doesn't | |
> want you to do. |__/__._|
> ;/ /'
> Looking forward to working with all you ( (
> ASM hackers. But remember the Prime \ \
> Directive: if you try to touch my moogies, \ )
> I'll painfully disable your reproductive )\ (
> capacity. Hehehe! Love, _/'_\_\
> Annie `--'_/ _) aa
> `--'
>
>
>
Mike
Hello man. Are you really made of Gold, as your surname claims?
Gold is a metal, and is very heavy too. How can you move?
In article <3E0A9792...@erols.com>, giz...@erols.com says...
CP/M-86 Fan
"Annie Ascii" <annie...@oal.com> wrote in message...
> > Oooh, bon-bons. Frankie *like* bon-bons!
>
> I'm so sure. But you're going to have to find your own supply
> of bon-bons. Mine are off-limits.
You shouldn't incourage Frank this way. Christmas was a stuff up all over
the issue about bon-bons. Since I'm mostly embarrassed about the issue, I've
remained anonymous )-: Personally I found the subject ever so awkward,
particularly on a day like Christmas Day & in the area with little children.
To think that back in the 1940s Jane Russell sturred up the women with her
figure (in the Outlaw), that's nothing compared with the tripe that is
served up today as far as I see it, it's becoming an ongoing problem in all
departments, violence, language, sex & nudity in particular.
> Well, DUHHH! If you'd remembered, you might still be married
> to your daughter's mother...and you'd have a readily accessible
> stash of "bon-bons." You have to think of these things. Hehe!
Geez it doesn't take long for the 'Adult Themes' to be revealed in this
group. And to think it's all over some dots, semi-columns, spaces, less
thans, greater thans & brackets whatever! I wouldn't try & get involved with
the personal life of Frank Kotler.
Here's an assembly puzzle (I posted what this program did earlier), can
anyone tell me what the following program does?
LD HL,#4000
LD DE,#C000
LD BC,#3FFF
LDIR
RET
I'm afraid there are no prizes for the answer to this (except perhaps
aquirying some knowledge about Z80 on the Amstrad!).
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan" asked:
[ ]
Here's an assembly puzzle (I posted what this program did earlier), can
anyone tell me what the following program does?
| LD HL,#4000 destination ptr
| LD DE,#C000 source ptr
| LD BC,#3FFF byte-count (by why not #4000 ?)
| LDIR block-move auto-increment rep(BC-times) [HL]<-[DE]
(similar as the IA-xx "REP MOVSb")
| RET
| I'm afraid there are no prizes for the answer to this (except perhaps
| aquirying some knowledge about Z80 on the Amstrad!).
It's standard Z80 code, not at all Amstrad related.
__
wolfgang
CP/M-86 Fan
"wolfgang kern" <now...@nevernet.at> wrote in message...
Hi There!
> Here's an assembly puzzle (I posted what this program did earlier), can
> anyone tell me what the following program does?
>
> | LD HL,#4000 destination ptr
> | LD DE,#C000 source ptr
> | LD BC,#3FFF byte-count (by why not #4000 ?)
Well, I could be wrong about this, however "I think" if the byte count is
set to a size of #4000, then the last 1 byte is ignored, #3FFF has the same
result & no pixel has been left out in the bottom right hand corner. But
from what I hear is that the screen memory finishes a little before that
#4000 is equivalent to 16384 which is a bit over 16k, but the screen memory
on the Amstrad is persumably only exactly 16k (which persumably means there
is another 384 bytes that is no used for the screen at all). If I'm correct
then the value in 'BC' can be as small as #3E80.
> | LDIR block-move auto-increment rep(BC-times) [HL]<-[DE]
> (similar as the IA-xx "REP MOVSb")
> | RET
>
> | I'm afraid there are no prizes for the answer to this (except perhaps
> | aquirying some knowledge about Z80 on the Amstrad!).
>
> It's standard Z80 code, not at all Amstrad related.
Ah okay. I was only concerned about it being Amstrad related since it moves
something to the Amstrads screen memory, but if that's standard of what any
Z80 does then I suppose it can be used on any of those platforms.
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan" wrote:
[about Z80 LDIR]
| > | LD HL,#4000 destination ptr
| > | LD DE,#C000 source ptr
| > | LD BC,#3FFF byte-count (but why not #4000 ?)
| Well, I could be wrong about this, however "I think" if the byte count is
| set to a size of #4000, then the last 1 byte is ignored, #3FFF has the same
| result & no pixel has been left out in the bottom right hand corner. But
| from what I hear is that the screen memory finishes a little before that
| #4000 is equivalent to 16384 which is a bit over 16k, but the screen memory
| on the Amstrad is persumably only exactly 16k (which persumably means there
| is another 384 bytes that is no used for the screen at all). If I'm correct
| then the value in 'BC' can be as small as #3E80.
Terminology-correction:
4000hex is exactly 16 Kb = 16384 bytes.
16000 bytes = 15.625 Kb.
Many people are a bit confused about this :)
Just check the screen resolution, assuming 16 colour-mode:
TV-sets use 256 x 192 [49152 dots /4= 12288 bytes],
monitors use 320 x 200 [64000 dots /4= 16000 bytes],
or multiples of it.
So the 'unused' bytes (384 in your case) often have other functionalities,
like colour-mask, palette, etc..., or are just additional free usable RAM.
I don't know about the Amstrad-boards.
I remember a PC with i286/i287 and a Z80-evaluation-board in it.
| > | LDIR block-move auto-increment rep(BC-times) [HL]<-[DE]
| > (similar as the IA-xx "REP MOVSb")
There is also a LDDR instruction (same, but auto-decrement)
| Ah okay. I was only concerned about it being Amstrad related since it moves
| something to the Amstrads screen memory, but if that's standard of what any
| Z80 does then I suppose it can be used on any of those platforms.
Yes, and there are many other "unofficial" but well-known Z80 opcodes.
Try http://www.zilog.com
__
wolfgang
Beth
> Lyle Goldman wrote:
> > Hello. Your last name is really Ascii? Is that an Italian name?
> > Is your last name pronounced like the word ASCII, or is it
pronounced
> > differently?
>
> Gold is a metal, and is very heavy too. How can you move?
And I see you fit in with your own name too, Mike...you appear to be
taking the Mickey ;)
So this means Frank is always frank? Wolfgang is actually a gang of
wolves? Anonymous truely doesn't have a name? Cool...how ironic then,
that Randy who's reserved and mature enough not to join in with
drawing naked women in ASCII graphics...hehehe :)
Beth :)
P.S. I'm not made of stone before anyone asks :)
CP/M-86 Fan
"wolfgang kern" <now...@nevernet.at> wrote in message...
> Terminology-correction:
> 4000hex is exactly 16 Kb = 16384 bytes.
> 16000 bytes = 15.625 Kb.
> Many people are a bit confused about this :)
Someone once wrote in a magazine that 65535 (or FFFFh) is actually more than
64k, so that your getting a little bit more memory then what you should (or
something like that). But if your calculations are correct then it should be
64k.
> Just check the screen resolution, assuming 16 colour-mode:
> TV-sets use 256 x 192 [49152 dots /4= 12288 bytes],
> monitors use 320 x 200 [64000 dots /4= 16000 bytes],
> or multiples of it.
> So the 'unused' bytes (384 in your case) often have other functionalities,
> like colour-mask, palette, etc..., or are just additional free usable RAM.
Well I'll be, ain't that something! :-) But I'm a little confused why your
dividing 4, is it because the square root of 16 is 4? And you always square
root the number of colours reguardless of the number of colours?
Annie Ascii
On 2002-12-30 BethS...@hotmail.com (Beth Stone) said:
> P.S. I'm not made of stone before anyone asks :)
_____
Well, you're certainly acting like it, ((( `\
Beth. Lighten up, girl! Don't be such a _ _`\ )
prudey old prune. (^ ) )
~-( )
So some hormonally-challenged nerd in _'((,,,)))
this newsgroup asked you about your boobs. ,-' \_/ `\
SO WHAT? Have some fun...LIE to him! Tell ( , |
him you're a 40 double-D. `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
\ / | |
The pathetic little geek will fantasize =[]=: / ,'
about you for months. THAT'S power! Hehe! / `\ '
: \/ )
Look at me: I'm here doing a bit of ASM, | / ;
good-naturedly fending off the horny teens | / /
and geezers, and havin' some fun. You can, |/ /
too, if you'll only GET OVER YOURSELF. ( <
\ \
I just watched a video of the last Bono | \ \
concert in London. Were you that girl who | \ \
threw her knickers onto the stage? Hehehe! |___\___\
`--'_/ _) aa
- Annie `--'
wolfgang kern
"CP/M-86 Fan" answered
| I wrote...
|
|
| Someone once wrote in a magazine that 65535 (or FFFFh) is actually more than
| 64k, so that your getting a little bit more memory then what you should (or
| something like that). But if your calculations are correct then it should be
| 64k.
Perhaps the author was commercial rather than technical educated?
Yes,it's more than 64000, but in (all agreed) PC-terms it's still 64K.
the programmers standard tells:
1 Kb = 1024 bytes
1 Mb = 1024x1024 bytes
1 Gb = 1024x1024x1024 bytes
1 Tb = 1024^4 bytes
(regardless of some users may be confused with this)
I've seen the "Mibyte"-confusion with attempts to make 1Mb = 10^6 bytes,
be sure this attempt failed all over the globe.
| > Just check the screen resolution, assuming 16 colour-mode:
| > TV-sets use 256 x 192 [49152 dots /2= 12288 bytes], *[error corr.]
| > monitors use 320 x 200 [64000 dots /2= 16000 bytes], *[error corr.}
| > or multiples of it.
| > So the 'unused' bytes (384 in your case) often have other functionalities,
| > like colour-mask, palette, etc..., or are just additional free usable RAM.
|
| Well I'll be, ain't that something! :-) But I'm a little confused why your
| dividing 4, is it because the square root of 16 is 4? And you always square
| root the number of colours reguardless of the number of colours?
Confusion?
YES!
Sorry I already had some beers!
2 colours B/W 1 bit /pixel divide dots by 8 to get size.
4 colours are 2 bits/pixel divide by 4 to get screen-size in bytes.
16 colours are 4 bits/pixel divide by 2 to get bytes.
256 colours are 8 bits/pixel = bytes (divide by one)
true RGB 24 24 bits/pixel multiply dots by 3
alpha-RGB 32 bits/pixel multiply dots by 4 to get size in bytes.
So actually it's not the square-root at all.
Again sorry for my wrong example, but right now I'll have another beer! :)
__
wolfgang
Frank Kotler
> the programmers standard tells:
> 1 Kb = 1024 bytes
> 1 Mb = 1024x1024 bytes
> 1 Gb = 1024x1024x1024 bytes
> 1 Tb = 1024^4 bytes
> (regardless of some users may be confused with this)
High-level programmers figure that there are about 1000 bytes in a kilobyte.
System-level programmers *know* that there are exactly 1024 meters in a
kilometer.
Is this why our Mars-rockets fail?
Best,
Frank
Ross Simpson
Hi Frank,
> High-level programmers figure that there are about 1000 bytes in a
kilobyte.
>
> System-level programmers *know* that there are exactly 1024 meters in a
> kilometer.
>
> Is this why our Mars-rockets fail?
No somebody forgot to convert their metric calculations into imperial (or
something like that).
Yes it silly that, anyone should know there is 1024 bytes in a kilobyte!
With Regards,
Ross.
wolfgang kern
"Frank Kotler" mentioned:
| > [...](regardless of some users may be confused with this)
|
| High-level programmers figure that there are about 1000 bytes in a kilobyte.
Doesn't this ng read alt.lang._ASM_
I see HLL-programmers as (primary) users anyway.
| System-level programmers *know* that there are exactly 1024 meters in a
| kilometer.
:)
| Is this why our Mars-rockets fail?
At least the tiny robot had landed!
| Best,
| Frank
__
wolfgang
Ross Simpson
> > > [...](regardless of some users may be confused with this)
> >
> > High-level programmers figure that there are about 1000 bytes in a
kilobyte.
>
> Doesn't this ng read alt.lang._ASM_
Yeah, however there are a few here who use Assembly in those High-Level
languages, such as 'C' & 'Pascal'! :-)
> I see HLL-programmers as (primary) users anyway.
Didn't someone in here say that MA$M could be regarded as a high-level
language? (I know someone somewhere did, they had a pretty good argument
into why it could, too!)
With Regards,
Ross.
wolfgang kern
"Ross Simpson" replied:
[1Kb>1000]
| > Doesn't this ng read alt.lang._ASM_
| Yeah, however there are a few here who use Assembly in those High-Level
| languages, such as 'C' & 'Pascal'! :-)
And that's where all the confusions came from!
[using several stacks for just one CPU,
copy data from hard-disk to virtual memory,
stack-framed procedures for toggle a flag, aso...]
| > I see HLL-programmers as (primary) users anyway.
| Didn't someone in here say that MA$M could be regarded as a high-level
| language? (I know someone somewhere did, they had a pretty good argument
| into why it could, too!)
Even I don't use any M$/Boringland stuff, it could have been me :)
| With Regards,
| Ross.
--
wolfgang
Beth
> Beth wrote:
> > P.S. I'm not made of stone before anyone asks :)
>
be such a
> prudey old prune.
>
> So some hormonally-challenged nerd in this newsgroup asked you about
your boobs.
> SO WHAT? Have some fun...LIE to him! Tell him you're a 40 double-D.
>
> The pathetic little geek will fantasize about you for months. THAT'S
power! Hehe!
>
> Look at me: I'm here doing a bit of ASM, good-naturedly fending off
the horny teens
> and geezers, and havin' some fun. You can, too, if you'll only GET
OVER YOURSELF.
Exactly; You're here to do all that feeding of the
hormonally-challenged nerds...hey, _you_ declared yourself the "new
newsgroup queen" so accept the responsibility of that job (which I was
never here to fulfill so you've actually invented the job title for
yourself :)...if you help keep all that bullcrap away from me so that
I can concentrate on assembly and being my "prudey old prune" self,
then I'm happy and more than welcome you here...being a "fun-bag" made
of ASCII, you'd better fulfill some geek fantasy, anyway...I have a
tendency to be miserable, argumentative, drone on about the great
misery in the world and just tell people to fudge off...
No, _you_ get over yourself...wanting to be a power-monger over
men...declaring yourself "queen" of a non-existent popularity
contest...what's wrong, honey? Can't get anyone interested unless you
lie about 40 Double-Ds and thrust yourself into people's faces
unannounced? Yeah, I'm a prudey old prune but at least Stone is solid,
real and three dimensional...ASCII's just a plain, flat, two
dimensional encoding system (superceded and outdated by UNICODE these
days, anyway ;)...
"Ich waer so gern so bloed wie du
dann haett ich endlich meine ruh
dann braeucht ich nicht mehr viel zu denken
und liess die andern fuer mich lenken"
[ "ich waer so gern do bloed wie du", Tic Tac Toe...Klappe die zweite
:) ]
Tip: You've got to get yourself a sense of humour before you attempt
to be "witty"...even a "prudey old prune" like myself worked that one
out a long time ago...
> I just watched a video of the last Bono concert in London. Were you
that girl who
> threw her knickers onto the stage? Hehehe!
Nope, not me; My underwear doesn't usually go on excursions like
that...but I notice you have trouble keeping yours on, Annie...what's
the rule? "No nookie until the third post"? As I say, I'd Love to see
more intelligent women posting to this newsgroup...and I'm still
waiting...
Beth :)
P.S. Happy New Year! :)
P.P.S. If you find this post a bit too bitchy then consider practicing
what you preach and just "get over yourself" and stop being a "prudey
old prune" about it all...hehehe ;)
Annie Ascii
BethS...@hotmail.com (Beth Stone) said:
> I have a tendency to be miserable, argumentative,
> drone on about the great misery in the world and
> just tell people to fudge off... _____
((( `\
You certainly do. And that's a _ _`\ )
big part of the problem, Beth. _____________ (^ ) )
I read the FAQ for this news- //////` | ~-( )
group, and it doesn't say _|____ ` | _'((,,,))
ANYTHING about discussing the |:::::||` | ,-' \_/ `\
misery of the world here. |_____||` | ( , |
Not one single word! |_____|_______/ `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
___/____|___\___ \ / | |
YOU sure as shite can't save | _ <<<:|---------- /'.'---.
the world, and none of the |_________)___o_o| __ /'/' \
rest of us here WANT to save / (________/----(__//) \
the world. We just want to (________________________________________)
do a little ASM. So get back )_(| / /\ \----` |)_(
on your meds, and lighten up. | || / .'||\ | || || |
Hee! | |) / ( || \( || (| |
| | / /' () \`. () | |
> My underwear doesn't |_| `-' \ \ |_|
> usually go on excursions (_) \/ aa (_)
> like that...
"Usually" being the key word. Never say "never," eh, Beth? Hehe!
> what's the rule? "No nookie until the third post"?
Oh, listen to this! Casting aspersions! Well for your information,
Miss Smartypants, I'm a virgin. Can you truthfully say the same?
Didn't think so. Hehehe! But I don't have to be a meteorologist
to know which way the wind blows.
> I'd Love to see more intelligent women posting to this newsgroup...
> and I'm still waiting...
This is why I hate having protracted discussions with pruney old
broads. They always end up getting catty, and tossing ad hominems.
Okay, Beth, I'll match you in an I.Q. exam...AND a wet t-shirt
contest...anytime you say. Hehehehe! You're just jealous because
I'm not only smart and know assembly language, but I'm also cute
and uninhibited. GET OVER IT.
Happy New Year! Hehe!
;
; BUGGER.ASM
;
code segment ;start of code segment
org 100h ;DOS .COM file
message:
mov ah,9 ;function 9 - print string
mov dx,offset msg ;point DX to the screen message
int 21h ;call DOS services
jmp message ;jump to label
int 20h ;exit to DOS
;
msg db 'Bugger off!',13,10,'$'
;
end
Frank Kotler
> ..., I'm a virgin.
Oh dear. Kindly allow me to withdraw my earlier indecent proposition. I
don't need that kind of responsibility!
A "Virgin Queen"... Sounds almost like a song lyric. In fact, I think it
*is* a song lyric. Rolling Stones, I think... "she's a lady in waiting
to a virgin queen, .... .. .... ...... ....". Can't quite remember how
it goes.
> But I don't have to be a meteorologist
> to know which way the wind blows.
I know that one: Bob Dylan!
> They always end up getting catty, and tossing ad hominems.
That would be an ad feminem, wouldn't it?
> Okay, Beth, I'll match you in an I.Q. exam...AND a wet t-shirt
> contest...
I wonder... On planets where they don't have bilateral symmetry, do they
have wet f-shirt contests? (...and what's *that* like???)
> ..., but I'm also cute
> and uninhibited.
An uninhibited virgin. Tell us all about it, dear.
> ;
> ; BUGGER.ASM
> ;
> code segment ;start of code segment
> org 100h ;DOS .COM file
> message:
> mov ah,9 ;function 9 - print string
> mov dx,offset msg ;point DX to the screen message
> int 21h ;call DOS services
> jmp message ;jump to label
> int 20h ;exit to DOS
> ;
> msg db 'Bugger off!',13,10,'$'
> ;
> end
Doesn't seem to know when to stop talking... And what's with re-loading
ah and dx on each iteration? That supposed to be an example of your
efficient asm, Annie?
Have a Peaceful and Prosperous 2003, everyone!
Best,
Frank
Annie Ascii
On 2003-01-01 fbko...@attbi.com said:
_____
> Oh dear. Kindly allow me to withdraw my ((( `\
> earlier indecent proposition. _ _`\ )
(^ ) )
It's okay, Frankie. I never took you seriously. ~-( )
_'((,,,)))
> I don't need that kind of responsibility! ,-' \_/ `\
( , |
Neither do I, Gramps. Hehe! `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
\ / | |
> I know that one: Bob Dylan! =()=: / ,'
,' \ '
Bob WHO? | )
| |
> That would be an ad feminem, wouldn't it? |__/____|
;/ .'
Only to Beth. Hehehe! ( (
\ \
> An uninhibited virgin. Tell us all about \ )
> it, dear. )\ (
_/'_\_\
The word "uninhibited" has connotations other `--'_/ _) aa
than purely sexual, you old reprobate. Get your `--'
mind out of the gutter! Hehehehe!
> Doesn't seem to know when to stop talking...
Well, what else would you EXPECT from a girl? Girls LIKE to be
talked to. Remember that former bon-bon supply, Frankie? It
could still be yours, but NOOOOOO...you had to do the typical
male thing. Oh well. At least you have your memories. Hehe!
> I wonder... On planets where they don't have bilateral symmetry, do
> they have wet f-shirt contests? (...and what's *that* like???)
Gawh! My Dad stopped telling that old joke back when I was 7 years
old. Hehehe!
> Have a Peaceful and Prosperous 2003, everyone!
And my best wishes for a happy new year to you, your grown daughter,
and your grandchildren. Guess you ain't in high school anymore, Frankie.
- Annie
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
>and uninhibited.
care to back that up with sum pix? ;p
--The Mosquito Scriptkiddiot.
"There are two sides to every story...and then there is what really happened."
;p
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
>
>Best,
>Frank
>
yeah, u 2! ;p
The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot
happy new yr. to u beth ;p
Herbert Kleebauer
> > ;
> > ; BUGGER.ASM
> > ;
> > code segment ;start of code segment
> > org 100h ;DOS .COM file
> > message:
> > mov ah,9 ;function 9 - print string
> > mov dx,offset msg ;point DX to the screen message
> > int 21h ;call DOS services
> > jmp message ;jump to label
> > int 20h ;exit to DOS
> > ;
> > msg db 'Bugger off!',13,10,'$'
> > ;
> > end
>
> Doesn't seem to know when to stop talking... And what's with re-loading
> ah and dx on each iteration? That supposed to be an example of your
> efficient asm, Annie?
Yes, it is an example of efficient asm, because int21 AH=9 only modifies
AL, so no reloading of ah and dx is necessary.
Besides, at least Annie knows, what assembler to use:
@echo off
echo XP,;P_,EP0Ex0Ez0Em3Em-ZBP(Eiu![j@_YQ2M@53#@CI~.8'uxCISZ[SC5.bM!C>ech.com
ech " ">anni.dat
ech " _*_ ">>anni.dat
ech " /~ ~\ _____ _____ _____ _____ ">>anni.dat
ech " ;;;;;;;;: ((( `\ ((( `\ ((( `\ _ ((( `\ ">>anni.dat
ech " _ _`\ ) _ _`\ ) _ _`\ ) _ _`\ |-) _ _`\ ) ">>anni.dat
ech " (^ ) ) (^ ) ) (^ ) ) (^ ? )(() (^ ) ) ">>anni.dat
ech " ~-( ) ~-( ) ~-( ) ~- '`/' ()) ~-( ) ">>anni.dat
ech " _-'((,,,))) _'((,,,))) _'((,,,))) _' \__())) _'((,,,))) ">>anni.dat
ech " /' `=' `\ ,-' \_/ `\ ,-' \_/ `\ ,-' /'\' ,-' `\ ">>anni.dat
ech "( ) ( , | ( , | ( `\-(---/'\ | (0 ( 0 , | ">>anni.dat
ech " \ `.. ( ( `-.-'`-.-'/|_| `-.-'`-.-'/|_| `-.-'`-.-'/| | `-.-'`-.-'/| | ">>anni.dat
ech " ( ) ) \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | ">>anni.dat
ech " ( ( ) =[]=: / ,' =()=: / ,' ;. ( / ,' ;. ( / ,' ">>anni.dat
ech " ) )/ / `\ ' ,' \ ' /=[]==\ ' / \ ' ">>anni.dat
ech " (;;;;;;;;) : \/ ) | ) : \/ ) : \/ ) ">>anni.dat
ech " | / ; | / ; | | | / ; : / ' ">>anni.dat
ech " | / / | / / |__/____| ;=/====' : / ,' ">>anni.dat
ech " |/ / |/ / ;/ .' |/ / `/ .' ">>anni.dat
ech " ( < ( < ( ( ( ( ( ( ">>anni.dat
ech " \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ ">>anni.dat
ech " | \ \ | \ \ \ ) \ ) \ ) ">>anni.dat
ech " | \ \ | \ \ )\ ( )\ ( )\ ( ">>anni.dat
ech " |___\___\ |___\___\ _/'_\_\ _/`_\ \ _/`_\ \ ">>anni.dat
ech " `--'_/ _) aa `--'_/ _) aa `--'_/ _) aa `" _/ _) aa `" _/ _) aa ">>anni.dat
ech " `--' `--' `--' `" `" ">>anni.dat
echo Bj@jzh`0X-`/PPPPPPa(DE(DM(DO(Dh(Ls(Lu(LX(LeZRR]EEEUYRX2Dx=>anni.com
echo 0DxFP,0Xx.t0P,=XtGsB4o@$?PIyU WwX0GwUY Wv;ovBX2Gv0ExGIuht6>>anni.com
echo y~saxBE_pFOB`LZNxPq@LtGFpZsAU~ZzOLIKsZ{OwB@kMw?g?w?ZgM?wo?>>anni.com
echo wq1}JqOxIwr{F{?wjI@=@GW~@GWz1GxOOde?AOk`dXQe?cOxepass=EWqv>>anni.com
echo AjECuJWGgAqqg?SAfgBrR1F]suJaEEAKAAj@?CxA?}gFOn?MGj?MZta1gB>>anni.com
echo gK~?fzC~NCGB@M1FOw}J_HNI1BcFuMBHNwugP~AkeC?`DGBDH]yooeT?GO>>anni.com
echo HXH]eFs@DBGQujD=BEeK@\of?_DJ_=@mHrNC`tItOB@MWj?{?T`hNo~N~g>>anni.com
echo Nuq}@aBUAG@Nr`AqEG@?O_AsmGh?OoB~M=?_YGHp_p1}JqloIoESIQ?WGM>>anni.com
echo \wGFvW{OeuXKHAk`?pDr?wGMJwgFvN{SD@FoeD@K}RGq=?DzRqOs?E@]@}>>anni.com
echo ?{jMyODqAsUB`\AuBKlll?DGlSCDWTlSHDlll?ll_?R@MTllL@@MlSlLRD>>anni.com
echo l_l?@SlSlLRDSllOLR@T_ll?LllOLR@Tlll?R@LTllL@Gl_Ol@KDKGlSll>>anni.com
echo @@@KGT@_lO0>>anni.com
anni.com <anni.dat
del ech.com
del anni.dat
del anni.com
cls
Annie Ascii
On 2003-01-01 anothe...@aol.comnospam (The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot) said:
> care to back that up with sum pix? ;p
If you haven't seen the pix already, _____
Bug-d00d, you simply haven't been ((( `\
paying attention. Hehe! _ _`\ )
_____________ (^ ) )
//////` | ~-( )
_|____ ` | _'((,,,))
|:::::||` | ,-' \_/ `\
|_____||` | ( , |
|_____|_______/ `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
___/____|___\___ \ / | |
| _ <<<:|---------- /'.'---.
|_________)___o_o| __ /'/' \
/ (________/----(__//) \
(________________________________________)
)_(| / /\ \----` |)_(
| || / .'||\ | || || |
| |) / ( || \( || (| |
| | / /' () \`. () | |
|_| `-' \ \ |_|
(_) \/ aa (_)
BJ
wrote:
>*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
>
>On 2003-01-01 anothe...@aol.comnospam (The Mosquito ScriptKiddiot) said:
>
> > care to back that up with sum pix? ;p
>
> If you haven't seen the pix already, _____
> Bug-d00d, you simply haven't been ((( `\
> paying attention. Hehe! _ _`\ )
> _____________ (^ ) )
> //////` | ~-( )
> _|____ ` | _'((,,,))
> |:::::||` | ,-' \_/ `\
> |_____||` | ( , |
> |_____|_______/ `-.-'`-.-'/|_|
> ___/____|___\___ \ / | |
> | _ <<<:|---------- /'.'---.
> |_________)___o_o| __ /'/' \
> / (________/----(__//) \
> (________________________________________)
> )_(| / /\ \----` |)_(
> | || / .'||\ | || || |
> | |) / ( || \( || (| |
> | | / /' () \`. () | |
> |_| `-' \ \ |_|
> (_) \/ aa (_)
Just out of curiosity, just how long does it take to draw all this
'ascii art'. You're quite good at it, really. But then again, this is
from someone who can't even draw a conclusion!
*********************
def happy
ref vmbw external Video Multiple Byte Write
happy clr r0 home cursor
li r1,msgtxt address of message
li r2,msglen length of message
loop blwp @vmbw call write to screen
ai r0,32 advance to next row
ci r0,768 past end of screen?
jlt loop no, print again
limi 2 yes, enable interrupts
jmp $ wait for 'QUIT'
msgtxt text 'Happy New Year!'
msglen equ $--msgtxt
end
Annie Ascii
On 2003-01-01 byat...@NOSPAM.att.net said:
> Just out of curiosity, just how long does it take to draw all this
> 'ascii art'. You're quite good at it, really. But then again, this
> is from someone who can't even draw a conclusion!
Designing the original character takes _____
maybe 20 to 30 minutes. Once you're ((( `\
familiar with the character, it can be _ _`\ )
drawn in only a minute or two. All the (^ ) )
panels used in my messages here are ~-( )
pre-drawn. I just cut'n'paste'em into _'((,,,))
my message. Buy me a drink, Yates? ,-' \_/ `\
Hehe! ( , |
`-.-``-.-'/|_|
\ / | |
=()=; / ,' aa
------------------------------------------------'-----'-'-------
\_/