AutoCad vs. LandCadd
sconn
the realm of landscape/garden design, I would greatly appreciate your
comments to the following questions:
1. For a lone landscape designer doing residential garden design in a small
company with no CAD software at present, which is the better choice in
software in terms of learning curve, friendliness of user interface,
relative time saving to complete any task:
a. AutoCad LT (no real need for 3D) plus a couple of symbol libraries -
total cost about $900 OR
b. LandCadd - if LandCad is the preference, what would be the most sensible
selection from::
1. Visual Landscaping - $1200 OR
2. A collection of the modules Landscape Design/Plant Database
+ Site Planning + Quantity Takeoff for $1800 OR
3. The Site Series which includes the modules in #2 above plus 3
additional modules for $2600
2. From your experience, can one expect greater time savings with LandCadd
or AutoCad? If with LandCadd, what features of LandCadd have provided you
with the greatest relative time savings?
3. What in your view is the most compelling argument for selecting your
first choice? Does that or something else justify the additional cost over
AutoCad LT?
4. Any web references to recent comparisons or shootouts would be welcome.
Thanks very much for sharing your experience.
Steve
Michael
Background: I have used AutoCAD for years now and just in the last couple
of years have started doing residential landscape designs (I'll do 50-60
this year, each taking me about 10 hours, each project costs $20,000-$40,000
installed, they're complete new home landscaping, not huge, but not tiny
either).
Looking for a way to increase my productivity I looked into a lot of
different landscape programs (LandCADD, DynaScape, Landscape Illustrator,
LandARCH etc.). Since landscapes are only about 15% of my work I was
looking for something that would either work like AutoCAD or run inside of
AutoCAD so that I didn't have a steep learning curve.
DynaScape: Not bad from what little I've seen but it's a stand-alone
program that operates quite a bit differently than AutoCAD. I never found a
demo version to try out and I wasn't willing to invest the time into
learning a completely new program so I crossed it off my list pretty
quickly. If you don't know any software now, and are going to have to learn
whatever you go with from square one, I'd recommend looking at this, what
I've seen looks very impressive.
Landscape Illustrator: I spent a couple of hours playing with this program.
It's very basic (and IMHO total crap). It's like using 3D home (or simuliar
$30 CAD program to design a $800,000 custom home - Completely unprofessional
looking output and very limited software).
LandARCH 2001: This is an add-on to AutoCAD. I liked the fact that this
allowed me to use software/commands I'm familiar with (AutoCAD) while still
adding some landscape specific functions. I don't know if this will work
with AutoCAD LT (I run AutoCAD R14 and Architectural Desktop 3i) but it's
something to look into.
LandCADD: While some say this is the "Grandaddy of landscape software" I
was completely disappointed with it. It appeared to have the most promise
of the different programs I looked at (runs inside of AutoCAD or as a
stand-alone, Quantity Take-off features, Hand-drawn look to prints etc.) but
it didn't turn out that way.
1. There's the software's shaky history/future (I first used Arch-T
back when it was owned by Ketiv, then EaglePoint and now Digital Canal) I
was of course concerned that LandCADD's future would be as unknown as the
other EaglePoint products.
2. The lack of knowledgable people to ask questions of was
unbelievable. I'm still amazed that a company selling software couldn't
answer (what I feel are) basic questions about what they're selling.
3. Lack of a demo version. The saleperson told me there's no demo, the
Marketing Director told me there's no demo, the Lead Engineer told me
there's no demo, then when I tell them I'm no longer interested in their
products they all of the sudden offer to send me a demo? They have a CD you
can have sent to you but it contains nothing more than the "videos" that are
on their website. IMO you can't accurately make a purchasing decision by
watching a video of someone else using the software. They also offer an
online seminar which I was never able to attend (if you try to attend it
make sure you register way in advance because the deadline for registering
listed on the website is incorrect. I registered but never got the required
login information until after the seminar). The online seminar allows you
to watch one of their software engineers use the software while you (and a
bunch of other people on a conference call) ask questions. This is no
substitute for actually using the software. Sure it has a plant database,
but does it have the plants you'll be using? Make sure you look at any
software purchase thoroughly. (Landscape Illustrator for instance has "hand
drawn" looking plant symbols and that impressed me until I tried the
software and found out that the 10-12 hand drawn symbols on their website is
all that there are. Sure you can probably make more, but how much time is
that going to add?
4. Don't expect support. Their newsgroup forums are pretty useless
(maybe 4 new threads each month) there's just not the user community that
there is for other software programs. When I called EaglePoint directly to
ask questions they kick you to your area salepersons voicemail (I don't
think the salepeople actually work in the office so be prepared to leave a
message and wait for them to call you back). Then when the salesperson
called me back they weren't able to answer 2 of my 4 (IMO) basic questions.
I finally got the Marketing Director on the phone that thinking that I'd
finally get my questions answered but although he was nice and polite, he
didn't know the answers either. He had the Lead Software Engineer call me
who was able to answer most of my questions (though still not all).
5. Pricing. Make sure you don't pay retail. It's amazing how the more
disappointed I became with LandCADDs software, the lower the price went.
Summary: Everything that I found of value with LandCADD (quantity take-off,
plant database, hatching etc.) can be done with AutoCAD just by customizing
it a little (I'm not familiar with LT so it might not be able to do it all,
but full AutoCAD can). Whatever you decide, try it before you buy, don't
watch someone else do it (they may be able to hide the softwares faults, you
need to play with it yourself to see what does and doesn't work the way you
want it to). The best thing would be to try the software out on an actual
project or two, this will allow you to see what is good and bad about it
before you buy it.
At this point with your situation I'd be leaning towards AutoCAD LT (no
symbols libraries, you can download more than enough from the web for free)
and maybe an add-on Quantity Take-Off module (i.e. Dotsoft makes some good
stuff). I've found that generating a Materials List (Quantity Take-Off) can
waste a lot of time if not automated in some way.
HTH,
Michael
"sconn" <sdc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fAzy8.22601$fW5.4...@typhoon.atl.ipsvc.net...
Michael
I can't speak to the other programs. After starting my own design
firm a year ago, I bought AutoCAD LT, and have been happy with it. I
don't miss the 3d functions. You do have to do a certain amount of
customization; but the nice thing about that is you can get things to
look exactly as you want them. Also, it did not take that long.
It's a very powerful program, and is oriented toward creating
construction documents. I do most of my site plan renderings on CAD
in B&W, then color them by hand. The online user groups are very
popular, and you can usually find answers to questions online.
sconn
I was hoping to hear great things about LandCadd! Based on your comments I
am backing off my inclination toward LandCadd and looking at a couple of the
other alternatives suggested.
My brief experience with Eagle Point indeed mirrors your account:
1. Eagle Point has owned LandCadd since 1995 I think. Difficult to know
what their future is without some idea of the user base and sales, but the
point is valid.
2. I got the freindly regional sales guy on my first call; maybe I was
lucky. We talked for some time. He could not answer numerous basic
questions although he claimed to have worked there for 18 months. He also
admitted not to be very familiar with their web site. Eagle Point encourges
the sales reps to watch demos but doesn't require them to get hands-on
experience. So that may explain a lot.
He agreed to find the answers and call back. No reply after 2 days. I
called back today and got his voice mail.
3. I too want to ask about a demo version. I guessed that the CD offered
on the site was just a rehash of the 'brief' downloads from the website..
4. The newsgroup is next to dead. My similar post to that remains
unanswered, even by Eagle Point who does post there occasionally. Does that
mean the software is really easy to use or that there aren't many users or
both?
5. To my surprise the sale rep offered an appreciable discount. That
brings their cost closer to AutoCad LT.
Surely there are some LandCadd users reading this newsgroup. Your comments,
accolades, rebuttals would be most valuable and appreciated!
Steve
Janev
<NOnekki...@yahoo.comSPAM> wrote:
>Well, FWIW here's my opinion:
>
>
>At this point with your situation I'd be leaning towards AutoCAD LT (no
>symbols libraries, you can download more than enough from the web for free)
Where can one download these symbols libraries. Could you provide
this information please?
Thanks - Jan
Michael
"Janev" <new...@syd.comcen.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ccfc2d6...@news.comcen.com.au...
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:23:38 GMT, "Michael"
> <NOnekki...@yahoo.comSPAM> wrote:
>
> >Well, FWIW here's my opinion:
> >
> >
> >At this point with your situation I'd be leaning towards AutoCAD LT (no
> >symbols libraries, you can download more than enough from the web for
free)
>
>
> Where can one download these symbols libraries. Could you provide
> this information please?
>
> Thanks - Jan
Just about any CAD shareware site has some. I've been doing landscape
design & drafting for 3 years and have never bought any symbols. I
downloaded a bunch (I only use about 25 of the ones I d/l'ed) and I made a
few (I modified or made ~15 more symbols). Just do a search on your
favorite search engine for "AutoCAD landscape symbols" or something simuliar
and you'll get quite a few sites.
Here's some to get you started:
http://www.cadtoolsonline.com/free.htm
http://www.acad.co.uk/freesoft/blocks.htm
http://www.caddepot.com/dcd/Autodesk/Blocks/index-16.html
http://architechtronics.tripod.com/
HTH,
Michael
flipper
easy transition to CAD because it is very intuitive and allows one to
create much as you would with pencil and paper. It is a Mac only program
but includes graphic capabilities for presentations and such that Macs
are known for. http://www.engsw.com and
http://www.engsw.com/Drawings/DrawingRoom.html
Another software to consider is Nemetchek's Landmark, a new sport of
Minicad/Vectorworks. Much more complex, harder to learn and use, but is
more full featured.
Why not ACAD or its siblings? The ugly learning curve, the need for
support(ha,ha), cumbersome and ungainly. I don't know any landscape
architects who use it except those who feel they must because their
major clients(architects) use it or because of some ill-conceived notion
that it is some sort of standard.
Splish,splash,back in the water
