Vedic Stellar Astrology: Krishnamurti Padhati
Leo
Note: This is meant for people who are interested in astrology only
or for people who consult astrologers also. Others please skip.
Over time I was battling with a basic problem in standard vedic
astrology(as described both in ancient vedic texts and also authors
like B.V. Raman et al). I would see a horoscope with say Lagna being
Leo, and therefore the lord of Lagna being Sun and Sun being deposited
in Leo(Simha). Any student of vedic astrology will tell you that if
the Lagnadipathi is deposited in Lagna, then his period i.e. Dasa or
Bhukti or Antara will give fantastic results. However I would find that
in many cases, some of the worst experiences would happen in the period
of a very favorable planet in the natal chart. This was especially
true in my own chart where Sun as lord of Lagna is in Lagna in Simha.
In search of an answer to the question, I discovered a whole new
technique of predicting which has very satisfactorily worked for me.
In fact it has helped me pinpoint pretty accurate predictions, to
specific queries that I have put forth.
Krishnamurti Padhati which in a way is a repudiation of B.V. Raman
and his principles(IMHO if you are using the principles of Judging
horoscopes and making predictions a la BV Raman, you might as well
kiss trying to make accurate predictions goodbye. I will revisit that
later.). Stellar vedic astrology or the KP method is based on the
principle that during the operating period of any planet called
Vimsotri Dasa in vedic terms, the dasa lord is the source, however the
results of the dasa are indicated by the lord of the constellation that
the planet is deposited in and its favorability indicated by the
sub lord ruling the zodiacal longitude. Therefore in the case that
I described, the reason why sun was giving me frustrating results as
lord of lagna was because it was deposited in a constellation pooram
ruled by Venus and venus is a planet ill disposed in my natal chart.
So sun was really giving the results of venus. I shall briefly
describe the method used below. Please dont nail me for not using
appropriate technical terminology, as I am not very good at describing
this. However I think given the amount of fraudulent astrology that
goes on, it is important that I share this with you.
First let me define the method and also tell you about the basic
parameters involved.
1. The canvas on which astrology is drawn is a 360 degree circular
entity called the zodiac.
2. The base astro entities are the 12 signs called Rasis(Aries thro
Pisces), 27 Stellar constellations called Nakshatras(Aswini thro
revathi) and the 9 celestial bodies in relation to the earth that
are reasonably proximate to be considered an influence name Sun,
Moon, Mercury,venus, mars, jupiter, saturn, Moon's north node(rahu)
and moon's south node(kethu). Of course Rahu and Ketu will always
be 180 degrees apart from each other always in the zodiac by defn.
3. In addition to the above astro entities, KP differs from
traditional hindu vedic astrology, in the sense that it takes
into account the 12 houses(western) as opposed to
the standard vedic method which treats the Rasi in which the
ascendant is posited as the Lagna house or first house, the second
house as the second rasi and so on for all the 12 houses. In the
western house system, the 12 houses are delineated by 12 rising
points one for each house and each house can span multiple rasis.
That is house boundaries and rasi boundaries do not have to
co-incide. This means that the longitudes of the house cusps will
be different for each person depending on his time of birth and
at the least gives the first chart a granularity of 6 minutes as
opposed to the standard vedic chart whose granularity is lagna
based on the rasi and is approx 2 hours.
4. The 360 degrees of the zodiac are equally divided among the 27
Stellar constellations or nakshatras. So each Nakshatra owns
13 deg 20 min of the zodiac. Also each Nakshatra is ruled by
1 of 9 celestial bodies in a particular order As follows
Constellation Longitudinal reign Ruling Body sign sign ruler
------------ ----------------- ----------- ----- ----------
Ashwini 0 to 13.20 Ketu Aries Mars
Bharani 13.20 to 26.40 Venus Aries Mars
Krithika P1 26.40 to 30.00 Sun Aries Mars
Krithika p2/4 30.0 to 40.0 Sun Taurus Venus
Rohini 40.0 to 53.20 Moon Taurus Venus
Mrigasirsh1,2 53.2 to 60.0 Mars Taurus Venus
Mrigasirsh3,4 60.0 to 66.4 Mars Gemini Mercury
Arudra 66.4 to 80.0 Rahu Gemini Mercury
and so on. In any case cycling through the 27 nakshatras
over 360 degrees of the zodiac, each celestial body rules
3 nakshatras.
Further the 13 deg 20 min reign of each nakshatra is subdivided
with each planet owning a piece of the 13 deg 20 minutes in the
propotion of the vimshotri dasa(or dasa plainly) cycle. The
cycle always begins with the planet that is the ruler of the
constellation(nakshatra). I'll give you an example for this
The total vimshotri dasa cycle is 120 years. It is approximately
divided as follows
Ketu 7 years, Venus 20 years, Sun 6 years, Moon 10 years, Mars
6 years, Rahu 19 years and so on. so let us take the constellation
Ashwini, which owns the zodiacal portion marked by 0 degrees to
13 degrees 20 minutes. The ruler of Ashwini is ketu. Now let us
pick a point in the zodiac say 0 degrees 0 minutes. Now this
point in the zodiac is defined by three entities as follows
Zodiacal Point Constellation Ruler of COnst Sub lord Sign Lord
------------ ------------- ------------- ------- ---------
0 deg 0 min Ashwini Ketu Ketu Mars
2 deg 0 min Ashwini Ketu Venus Mars
This above applies the rule that position of a sub lord within a
nakshathram or constellation is placed by the propotion of the
vimshotri dasa cycle begining with ketu and cycling thro all the
planets.
The zodiac represents many things, but for the purposes of each
natal chart or birth chart, it represents a full day. that is if
360 degrees represents an entire day, then each degree is passed by
4 minutes of time. Using the above rule that each point in the zodiac
is represented by a Star lord, a sub lord and a sign lord, we come
up with 243 + 9 = 252 unique points in the zodiac, which in turn
represents 5.71 minutes of time(sometimes more or less depending on
the reign of the sub lord within the nakshatra).
Thus the longitude of every house cusp(start point) or house
meridian(mid point), as well as every celestial body in the zodiac at
the time of birth of the native is defined by these 3 unique quantities
and is guaranteed to change every 5 minutes, thus ensuring that twins
having the same natal rasi and navamsa charts will have definitely
different horoscopes and therefore different lives. The same results
could be acheived by drawing all the 8 required charts of the vedic
system, but it is far too improperly defined to acheive good results.
Now each one of our lives is governed by a series of Major Plantary
periods called Dasas, sub plantery periods called Bhuktis, sub sub
planetary periods called Anthara and sub sub sub planetary period
called Sookshma. The Dasha, Bhukti, Anthara and Sookshma together
converge to granular point in time in our lives at every point in
time spanning a small period of anything between a single day to
a 10 day period. We can become even more granular, but I hope you
get the idea. The Dasa cycle begins at the time of birth of the native
and it is based on the longitude of the moon at the time of birth
in the zodiac of the native. Like all celestial bodies in a natal
zodiac, the moon will be at a longitude which is owned by a stellar
constellation or Nakshatra. This is what is called your Janma
Nakshatra and this concept is common to both KP and standard vedic
method of prediction. Further more the sign that the moon is at the
time of birth is called your rasi. For example if your natal moon
is posited at 2 degrees in the zodiac, then your Janma nakshatra is
Ashwini and your Janma Rasi is Mesha or Aries. Since Ashwini is
ruled by ketu, the dasa that you will experience at birth time is
always ketu dasa. However ketu dasa lasts a period of 7 years and you
are born say at 2 degrees into ashwini. Now you will not experience
all of ketu dasa but a balance of it as follows
7 years * 11 deg 20 min/13 deg 20 min = 5 Years 11 months 10 days.
If you check anyone's natal chart you will notice a item called
balance of dasa at birth. This is what it is. Of course after that
the dasa cycle will take its course, with venus dasa running its
full course of 20 years from approx native's 5 th year to his 25th
year and so on and so forth. Each dasa is futher subdivided in the
propotion of the dasa cycle in bhuktis and further into antharas and
further in sookshmas giving a granularity to predict.
Now each planet signifies something in a natives natal chart. To
make things simple here, each planet owns a sign and it is also
deposited in a sign. Even though we dont use the traditional hindu
method of one sign equals one house, we still assign each house a
ownership by saying that the planet which owns the sign in the rising
point or cusp of each house owns that entire house. We further modify
the result by looking at the meridian of each house and looking at
its constellation lord of the meridian as well as the sub lord of the
zodiacal point where the meridian is located.
So now comes the judging part. Whenever a Dasa is operating, we first
see where the planet running the dasa is located in the zodiac. We
then determine the strength of the planet in that location. For example
if it is closed to its exaltation point, we deem it very strong,
moderately strong if it is in its own house or in a friendly house,
moderately weak if it is in a inimical house, weak if in addition it
has bad aspects and very weak if it is debilitated or combust. The
strength of the planet determines the strength of the results of the
dasa period. It is like a weak or a strong light source if you may
use a comparison. Now we look at the stellar constellation lord in
which the planet is deposited in. This planet(i.e the stellar
constellation lord) indicates what kind of results will be obtained.
If the stellar constellation lord is a planet that either rules or
is placed in the 7th house, then it indicates the formation of a
partnership, a lover, something in terms of marriage activity etc.
Then we look at the sublord ruling the longitude. The sub lord is
an indicator of favorability. If the sublord does not rule over houses
6,8 or 12, or is not inimical to the star lord or is not a badhaka
planet for the natal chart, then we can predict moderate to good
favorability for the action of formation of the partnership. However
to ascertain if that partnership will fructify into a lasting union
called business partnership or marriage or remain a long lasting affair
etc, we need now to look into the Bhukti and other sub periods and
see for example for marriage if the planets indicating family(2) as
well as friendship(11) and a sucessful negotiation(houses 3 and 9)
all converge with sucess indicated as above in each.
Conversely if one is asked a question as to will I go abroad, then
we have to work backwards. Going abroad in the problem domain is
defined as follows
1. Separation from family (house 12)
2. Undertaking a long journey (house 9)
3. Purpose(6 for medical treatment, 10 for career, 4 for education).
The point where all these three factors favorably converge and if
they favorably converge will indicate the trip and purpose abroad.
Obviously this is where the trial and error starts. We have to
consider for each house the following
a) The Planet that is the sub lord of the meridian ruling the house
that we are considering and seing under what dasa/bhukti/anthara
and sookshma it will be triggered.
b) The planets deposited in the house under consideration and
seing when they will be triggered
c) The planet owning the house under consideration and seing when
they will be triggered
d) any other mitigating factors like planets aspecting the house etc.
By triggered I mean that the planets must rule an operating dasa lord
and the sub lord should be favorable for that dasa lord(as a planet
can rule multiple dasa lords and only one of them will have a
favorable sub lord).
Now we have to look at factors a thro d, eliminate the planets with
unfavorable dasa lords and then we will be left with a couple of
planets indicating favorable results for each house and we have to
pick the strongest to predict. Predicting strength is judgemental
thing and it requires experience.
Please note that my above description is motivational rather than
meant to describe the method as an authority. Ultimately we all
improvise. The thing about KP is that the principes of prediction are
clearly defined, there is no shooting in the dark as B V Raman does
in all his "Judge a Horoscope" books. In fact if you study the examples
in his book carefully you will find a lot of ambiguity.He uses the same
combination of planets to justify opposite events. The whole thing is
one big farce, because it assumes that during the operating period of
a dasa lord, the results are those indicated by the dasa lord. Using
this principle you can get good results only by fluke. Finally
the assumption of a rasi/sign as a whole house is disastrous. In order
to get results through KP you have to errect the chart using the
table of houses(use Raphael's tables) only then u will get good
results.
Reference: Predictive Stellar Astrology by Prof K S Krishnamurthi.
--
"A Book of Verses underneath the Bough
A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread, -- and Thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness
oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!"
-The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
(An Edward FitzGerald Translation)
Dr. Jai Maharaj
On April 16, 1997,
in article <3354A9...@geocities.com>,
leo...@geocities.com wrote:
> Note: This is meant for people who are interested in astrology only
> or for people who consult astrologers also. Others please skip.
> Over time I was battling with a basic problem in standard vedic
> astrology(as described both in ancient vedic texts and also authors
> like B.V. Raman et al). I would see a horoscope with say Lagna being
> Leo, and therefore the lord of Lagna being Sun and Sun being deposited
> in Leo(Simha). Any student of vedic astrology will tell you that if
> the Lagnadipathi is deposited in Lagna, then his period i.e. Dasa or
> - leo...@geocities.com
That is a general rule to begin with, but in practice how, when and why
events manifest will depend on several factors such as the condition of
the Lagnadhipati in terms of strength and aspects in various charts,
prevaling transits at the time in question, etc.
> However I would find that in many cases, some of the worst experiences
> would happen in the period of a very favorable planet in the natal chart.
> This was especially true in my own chart where Sun as lord of Lagna is
> in Lagna in Simha. In search of an answer to the question, I discovered a
> whole new technique of predicting which has very satisfactorily worked
> for me. In fact it has helped me pinpoint pretty accurate predictions,
> to specific queries that I have put forth. Krishnamurti Padhati which in
> a way is a repudiation of B.V. Raman and his principles(IMHO if you are
> using the principles of Judging horoscopes and making predictions a la BV
> Raman, you might as well kiss trying to make accurate predictions
> goodbye. (I will revisit that later.) . . .
When our Guru(s) teach us Jyotish and related sciences, they tell us
in the beginning of the study that seeming contradictions and ambiguities
disappear as more and more is learned about the subject. Another idea
that is taught is the great sages and masters had reasons for saying or
writing what they did. It is up to us to discover and learn them. I
will furnish specific points relating to this by E-Mail.
> Stellar vedic astrology or the KP method is based on the
> principle that during the operating period of any planet called
> Vimsotri Dasa in vedic terms, . . .
Please note that the Vimshottari Dasha system, though popular, is one
of more than 50 planetary-cycle systems in Jyotish, Vedic astrology.
> the dasa lord is the source, however the results of the dasa are
> indicated by the lord of the constellation that the planet is deposited
> in and its favorability indicated by the
> sub lord ruling the zodiacal longitude. Therefore in the case that
> I described, the reason why sun was giving me frustrating results as
> lord of lagna was because it was deposited in a constellation pooram
> ruled by Venus and venus is a planet ill disposed in my natal chart.
> So sun was really giving the results of venus.
That establishes what I wrote earlier, that many factors have to be
studied to gain an insight into how the basic rules are modifiable.
> I shall briefly describe the method used below. Please dont nail me for
> not using appropriate technical terminology, as I am not very good at
> describing this. However I think given the amount of fraudulent astrology
> that goes on, it is important that I share this with you.
> First let me define the method and also tell you about the basic
> parameters involved.
> 1. The canvas on which astrology is drawn is a 360 degree circular
> entity called the zodiac.
> 2. The base astro entities are the 12 signs called Rasis(Aries thro
> Pisces), 27 Stellar constellations called Nakshatras(Aswini thro
> revathi) . . .
A band of 28 Nakshatr is also used! The names are: 1 Ktittik(a),
2 Rohini, 3 Mrgsheer(a), 4 Ardr(a), 5 Punarvasu, 6 Pushy(a),
7 Ashlesh, 8 Magh, 9 Poorv(a) Phalgun, 10 Uttar(a) Phalgun(a),
11 Hast(a), 12 Chaitr(a), 13 Svati, 14 Vaishakh(a), 15 Anuradha,
16 Jyeshtth(a), 17 Mool(a), 18 Poorv(a) Ashadh(a), 19 Uttar(a)
Ashadh(a), 20 Abhijit, 21 Shravan(a), 22 Dhanishtth(a),
23 Shatabhish(a), 24 Poorv(a) Bhadrapad(a), 25 Uttar(a)
Bhadrapad(a), 26 Revati, 27 Ashwini, 28 Bharani. In this
system, the Krittik(a) Nakshatr(a) is anchored at the beginning
of Vrishabh(a) Rashi and the following Nakshatr(a) boundaries
are used in order: 12d51m Vrishabh(a), 25d43m Vrishabh(a),
8d34m mithun(a), 21d26m Mithun(a), 4d17m Singh(a), [...Excerpt
from the Simplified Basic Concepts series part 1 available at
my web site mentioned below.]
> and the 9 celestial bodies in relation to the earth that
> are reasonably proximate to be considered an influence name Sun,
> Moon, Mercury,venus, mars, jupiter, saturn, Moon's north node(rahu)
> and moon's south node(kethu). Of course Rahu and Ketu will always
> be 180 degrees apart from each other always in the zodiac by defn.
Please note that other points of significance, such as Upagrah(a) and Kal
Vela, and the stars themselves are also used. Occultation with respect
to stars themselves (as distinguishable from star-groups) is an important
consideration in interpretation.
> 3. In addition to the above astro entities, KP differs from
> traditional hindu vedic astrology, in the sense that it takes
> into account the 12 houses(western) as opposed to
> the standard vedic method which treats the Rasi in which the
> ascendant is posited as the Lagna house or first house, the second
> house as the second rasi and so on for all the 12 houses. In the
> western house system, the 12 houses are delineated by 12 rising
> points one for each house and each house can span multiple rasis.
> That is house boundaries and rasi boundaries do not have to
> co-incide. [...]
Many Jyotishi(s) do not use the same boundaries of association
("of influence") for Rashi and Houses, such boundaries existing, for
instance, at points equidistant from house boundaries.
There are several Jyotish mailing lists. Would you
you like more information about them?
Dhanyavaad for starting this topic of discussion!
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Ranjan
Indeed, one of the biggest step of progress that I experienced in my pursuit
of astrology was when I came upon Professor Krishnamurthi's stellar paddhati.
Although his system was originally applied to (and tested) horary astrology,
but the basic theme of source, effect and modifiers works very well with natal
astrology and places vimshottari, which is the primary dasha that works on a
very strong footing and also ties the transits and dasha (which is a form of
lunar progression, after all) very neatly. Over the years, I have had to give
up using the Placidius system which he originally recommended, but that is
another story!
You are welcome to try another thing. When looking at a dasha, look for any
planet in the chart that is in the star of the dasha or bhukti lord (in
addition to looking at the nakshatra dispositor of the dasha/bhukti lord). If
such planet is strong, particularly in moolatrikonadi bala, you will see some
interesting patterns emerge.
I wrote some material on stellar system several years ago. Now it is available
at my website. Please visit.
Ranjan (Crystal Pages)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~crystar/
** JYOTISH-101 ** Use your Horoscope and learn Vedic Astrology
** Let Jyotish readings light up your path in life **
******************************************************
Ron Grimes
Leo wrote:
>
> Note: This is meant for people who are interested in astrology only
> or for people who consult astrologers also. Others please skip.
> Over time I was battling with a basic problem in standard vedic
> astrology(as described both in ancient vedic texts and also authors
> like B.V. Raman et al). I would see a horoscope with say Lagna being
> Leo, and therefore the lord of Lagna being Sun and Sun being deposited
> in Leo(Simha). Any student of vedic astrology will tell you that if
> the Lagnadipathi is deposited in Lagna, then his period i.e. Dasa or
> Bhukti or Antara will give fantastic results.
I would have to respectfully differ with you somewhat on this last statement. As
I am sure you are aware, simply having the Sun in Leo for a Leo lagna does not
ensure a fantastic Sun dasha. You don't mention whether the natal Sun is rasi
sandhi, balavastha or mritavastha, closely conjoined or aspected by one or more
malefics, debilitated in relevant divisional charts. Also, I personally prefer
to use the bhukti as bearing the dominant influence, while the dasha lord serves
more to color the bhuktis that fall therein.
> However I would find that
> in many cases, some of the worst experiences would happen in the period
> of a very favorable planet in the natal chart. This was especially
> true in my own chart where Sun as lord of Lagna is in Lagna in Simha.
By any chance during these experiences, were you running a bhukti ruled by a
weak/afflicted natal lord, or was the bhukti lord weak and afflicted in transit?
If so, the strength of your Sun can lessen the negative effects of the bhukti,
but not totally nullify them. Also, while the bhukti lord sets the trend, the
pratyantardasha lord's natal and transit strength/position will determine what
is triggered specifically.
Forgive me if you already know all of this. However, I often find that people
fail to dig deep enough into the basic elements before they go looking for a
newer and prettier mask to put on the face of vedic astrology in order to see if
they like that mask better.
I am not saying this is the case with you, but I am curious if any of the
basic things I have described were true during your bad experiences during the
Sun dasha.
Ranjan
Ron Grimes <rgr...@primenet.com> wrote:
>I would have to respectfully differ with you somewhat on this last statement. As
>I am sure you are aware, simply having the Sun in Leo for a Leo lagna does not
>ensure a fantastic Sun dasha. You don't mention whether the natal Sun is rasi
>sandhi, balavastha or mritavastha, closely conjoined or aspected by one or more
>malefics, debilitated in relevant divisional charts. Also, I personally prefer
>to use the bhukti as bearing the dominant influence, while the dasha lord serves
>more to color the bhuktis that fall therein.
It also helps at times to remember that vimshottari dasha is a form of lunar
progression. I wonder how many give some consideration to the relationship
between the moon (in the chart) and the dasha/bhukti lord? In addition to the
awasthas, etc., as rightly indicated by you, one must not ignore the mutual
disposition of the major and minor period rulers. If they are in shadasthatka
or in a mutually in unfriendly positions, one can expect to face some
frustrations, foiled attempts, wasted efforts, etc.
Indeed, there is so much that can and should be considered before pronouncing
results when doing Jyotish seriously.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5j7k85$quu$1...@cybernews.cyberus.ca>,
cry...@cyberus.ca (Ranjan) wrote:
> . . .
> Indeed, there is so much that can and should be considered before pronouncing
> results when doing Jyotish seriously.
Very true. This is why even the most basic Jyotish study
of one's charts can take a long time. Enter a Jyotish
computer program that is all in a few seconds; perhaps
in the next century.
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
http://members.aol.com/Jyotishi
Ranjan
j...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>Very true. This is why even the most basic Jyotish study
>of one's charts can take a long time. Enter a Jyotish
>computer program that is all in a few seconds; perhaps
>in the next century.
Quite frankly, I am not holding my breath for such a program to appear <S>!
Programs surely make the life of experienced jyotishis easy by providing the
calculative engine. However, most of the so called 'interpretive' programs
have merely been able to provide electronic version of some of the traditional
texts. These make the identification of yogas and arishtas and searching for
what the sages had to say about those, easier and faster. These are wonderful
'study-aids' for students and researchers, and they make it easy for people to
explore some of the minor and esoteric aspects of jyotish, but these programs
are extremely incomplete compared to what goes on in an experienced jyotishi's
brain when delineating a chart. For starters, none of these programs assign a
weighting for the participants in a yoga. It is not unusual to get a thirty
page printout full of mutually contradictory delineations which can easily
confuse most minds and can sometimes turn off the less than motivated
neophyte.
There are some students who truly believe that there are some 'hidden'
techniques in Jyotish that separate the Jyotishachaaryaa from the jadamati! A
culture that had been invaded for centuries, and that had anything but
homogeneous beginnings can understandably be expected to be 'protective'. It
is true that there is a lot of valuable material that is not readily available
to many, even in India. Some of this is because of protectionism, some is also
attributable to neglect. Someone might be sitting on a nadi grantha that was
an heirloom without knowing its worth or value. Some of the versions of texts
may also have been distorted a bit and can cause confusion to some. This is
all possible, but the fact is that most new students of jyotish are restless.
They do not wish to spend the time and energy in strengthening their 'base'
and start playing with techniques that are great for finetuning delineations,
rather than serving as the core.
Confusion, disillusionment comes readily to such souls. Unfortunately, the
craft gets the blame that the craftsman really deserved!
Lux Meee
:IN arTIcle <5j7k85$QUU$1...@cYbERnEwS.CyBerUS.Ca>,
: CRy...@cYBeruS.cA (RaNjaN) WroTe:
:> . . .
:> iNDeEd, theRe IS sO MucH THAT can ANd shoULd bE ConsIDereD beFoRE pRONOuNCIng
:> rEsuLtS WHen DoinG jYOTIsh sERiOusLy.
:
:VERY true. ThIS IS Why EvEN thE MOSt BASiC jyoTiSh STUdY
:of onE'S cHARts CaN takE a lonG TIme. enteR A JYotISH
:cOMputER prOGraM THaT is alL iN a FEw sEConDs; PERHAPS
:IN tHE nEXT cENtURY.
:
:JAI MAhARAj
:JyoTIshi, vEDIC AstroLoGEr
:http://Www.fLex.cOM/~jAI
:hTtP://mEMBeRs.aoL.COm/jYOtISHI
:oM shANtI
:
:-------------------==== PoSTed vIA deja news ====-----------------------
: HTtp://wWW.dEjAnews.coM/ SearCH, ReAd, poST To USeNet
:
I think Mr. Stevens is a warm, caring and loving person.
He has used some of his precious time to post drivel to our humble
newsgroup.
Mohan
Just to clarify, I originally posted as Leo(as I have 2 e-mail
addresses). What I reffered to as dasa, I meant Bhukti. I was running
Mercury dasa, which is my second lord in virgo(therefore in exaltation
in the second house) and sun bhukti. My Sun is well posited in my
horoscope(unlike mercury which does have ucha bhanga as it is
debilitated in navamsa). I get fantastic results like I would in Sun
Bhukti or Antara, but in the periods that are run by planets for which
sun is the constellation lord. Before you start criticicing my system,
try it out and you will see for yourself.
Mohan
In <3356E7...@primenet.com> Ron Grimes <rgr...@primenet.com>
writes:
Mohan
I have the following things to say in observation
1. Without the placedian house system KP will not work.
2. Let me explain what I mean by "will not work". The goal of
astrological research is to be able to accurately predict some
class of events down to the T. A life time is too short for any
of us to master the breakdown of all class of events, so I do
beleive we should all specialize in a particular class, while having
a good hold on the rest.
3. Since most astrologers claim to be wholistic beings, this might
surprise you. However if you work the way I do, I build theories
on observed patterns. Observing patterns on all class of events
will spread anyone too thin. It would be therefore more valuable
to observe patterns on a selected spectrum.
4. The reason why placedian houses are central to KP to predict events
accurately, is because you always begin in the sub lord of some
house meridian and see which planet is its signifactor for finding
favorability of the matters governed by that house. Then you look
at the planets deposited in the house(not rasi), I found that the
owner of the house(which KP defines as the rasi in which the cusp is
deposited) yields only fluke results. In any case always look for
the planet deposited in the constellation of the planets above which
indicate the events. In the dasa of such a planet, the event will be
favorable or unfavorable depending on the sub lord of such
constellation. However we know that no single event by itself will
bring about a change in life. So we have to look at multiple houses
to judge multiple events and look for connectedness between them.
To predict marriage we look at houses 7(Partnership), 2(family)
and 11(friendship) in the least. The connectedness is another
factor where the Lord of the house meridians being connected with
the sub lord of the other houses signify that in the Dasa, Bhukti,
antara and sookshma signify that when all of them are favorable the
event will occur.
Mohan
In <5j3lga$989$1...@cybernews.cyberus.ca> cry...@cyberus.ca (Ranjan)
writes:
>
>Indeed, one of the biggest step of progress that I experienced in my
pursuit
>of astrology was when I came upon Professor Krishnamurthi's stellar
paddhati.
>Although his system was originally applied to (and tested) horary
astrology,
>but the basic theme of source, effect and modifiers works very well
with natal
>astrology and places vimshottari, which is the primary dasha that
works on a
>very strong footing and also ties the transits and dasha (which is a
form of
>lunar progression, after all) very neatly. Over the years, I have had
to give
>up using the Placidius system which he originally recommended, but
that is
>another story!
>
>You are welcome to try another thing. When looking at a dasha, look
for any
>planet in the chart that is in the star of the dasha or bhukti lord
(in
>addition to looking at the nakshatra dispositor of the dasha/bhukti
lord). If
>such planet is strong, particularly in moolatrikonadi bala, you will
see some
>interesting patterns emerge.
>
>I wrote some material on stellar system several years ago. Now it is
available
>at my website. Please visit.
>
>www.cyberus.ca/~crystar/
>
Mohan
Think of it and you will realize that stellar astrology is a lunar
predictive model. Since Janma nakshatra is the stellar constellation in
which the natal moon is deposited in your chart. If you look at the
constellation lord of the dasa/bhukti/antara/sookshma planet, instead
of the operating lord, then you do not consider the strength of the
dasa lord or bhukti lord from chandra lagna. One of the rules of KP is
never look at chandra lagna. Even if the lagna is weak, use lagna.
Mohan
In <5j7k85$quu$1...@cybernews.cyberus.ca> cry...@cyberus.ca (Ranjan)
writes:
>
>Ron Grimes <rgr...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
>>I would have to respectfully differ with you somewhat on this last
statement. As
>>I am sure you are aware, simply having the Sun in Leo for a Leo lagna
does not
>>ensure a fantastic Sun dasha. You don't mention whether the natal Sun
is rasi
>>sandhi, balavastha or mritavastha, closely conjoined or aspected by
one or more
>>malefics, debilitated in relevant divisional charts. Also, I
personally prefer
>>to use the bhukti as bearing the dominant influence, while the dasha
lord serves
>>more to color the bhuktis that fall therein.
>
>It also helps at times to remember that vimshottari dasha is a form of
lunar
>progression. I wonder how many give some consideration to the
relationship
>between the moon (in the chart) and the dasha/bhukti lord? In addition
to the
>awasthas, etc., as rightly indicated by you, one must not ignore the
mutual
>disposition of the major and minor period rulers. If they are in
shadasthatka
>or in a mutually in unfriendly positions, one can expect to face some
>frustrations, foiled attempts, wasted efforts, etc.
>
>Indeed, there is so much that can and should be considered before
pronouncing
>results when doing Jyotish seriously.
>
>
>
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5ja6p8$6...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
moh...@ix.netcom.com(Mohan) wrote:
> [...]
> I have the following things to say in observation
> 1. Without the placedian house system KP will not work.
I have some examples which support the above view.
> 2. Let me explain what I mean by "will not work". The goal of
> astrological research is to be able to accurately predict some
> class of events down to the T. A life time is too short for any
> of us to master the breakdown of all class of events, so I do
> beleive we should all specialize in a particular class, while having
> a good hold on the rest.
The specialist-general practitioner axis, yes.
> 3. Since most astrologers claim to be wholistic beings, this might
> surprise you. However if you work the way I do, I build theories
> on observed patterns. Observing patterns on all class of events
> will spread anyone too thin. It would be therefore more valuable
> to observe patterns on a selected spectrum.
Continuing contact with the clients is a must. The Jyotishi
will find it very useful to record the events in their lives
as and when they occur to help in establishing certain patterns.
As present acts cotinue to modify how and when events will
manifest, according to Karm(ic) principles, so is information
related to one's Jyotish project updated.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5j8shi$dfo$3...@cybernews.cyberus.ca>,
cry...@cyberus.ca (Ranjan) wrote:
>
> j...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>> Very true. This is why even the most basic Jyotish study
>> of one's charts can take a long time. Enter a Jyotish
>> computer program that is all in a few seconds; perhaps
>> in the next century.
> Quite frankly, I am not holding my breath for such a program to appear <S>!
> . . .
A Jyotish program from Bungalore named Asha surfaced in
other parts of Bharat and in California during the early
1990s. It costs several thousand dollars, but may be
purchased as metered software on a per-use basis. (This
negative aspect alone makes it quite inaccessible for most.)
Its creators claim that the program can provide "full
predictive and psychological interpretations". I reviewed
it in 1993 and was not able to corroborate the claim after
using it on the charts of about 15 people. If a true
interpreting software package does appear out of the
silicon factories, it is an understatement that every
Jyotishi will be amazed and shocked.
> . . . For starters, none of these programs assign a
> weighting for the participants in a yoga. It is not unusual to get a thirty
> page printout full of mutually contradictory delineations which can easily
> confuse most minds and can sometimes turn off the less than motivated
> neophyte.
Indeed. Of course, many seemingly contradictory (as well as ambiguous,
I would like to add) statements do reconcile when the "when" question
is addressed. A person may be poor and rich at different times during
the life, and healthy and diseased, obscure and famous, etc., etc.
Of the now-popular packages, I would expect Goravani to be among the
first to offer advanced interpretive features. (Are you listening
Goravani ji?)
> There are some students who truly believe that there are some 'hidden'
> techniques in Jyotish that separate the Jyotishachaaryaa from the jadamati! A
> culture that had been invaded for centuries, and that had anything but
> homogeneous beginnings can understandably be expected to be 'protective'. It
> is true that there is a lot of valuable material that is not readily available
> to many, even in India. Some of this is because of protectionism, some is also
> attributable to neglect. Someone might be sitting on a nadi grantha that was
> an heirloom without knowing its worth or value. Some of the versions of texts
> may also have been distorted a bit and can cause confusion to some. This is
> all possible, but the fact is that most new students of jyotish are restless.
> They do not wish to spend the time and energy in strengthening their 'base'
> and start playing with techniques that are great for finetuning delineations,
> rather than serving as the core.
> Confusion, disillusionment comes readily to such souls. Unfortunately, the
> craft gets the blame that the craftsman really deserved!
Good and valid points, all, Ranjan ji. It is certainly true that
many authentic Jyotishi Guru(s) reserve certain techniques for their
best and trusted students. One finds this practice in almost all
fields of study, and schools of trade apprenticeship. But then many
teachers actually believe that Jyotish information -- especially
Tantr(ic) remedies -- can be misused by the criminal minded. here
in the U.S., I have come across Jyotish software creators who will
not sell their products to certain *types* of individuals.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
=========================================================
Chant quickly: "No restrictions at all, no restrictions
at all, no restrictions at all, no restrictions at all".
It becomes "no'restr'ns'll". . . "no'r't'll"..."nortle".
Welcome to the freedom-oriented hawaii.nortle newsgroup!
=========================================================
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5ja7aa$8...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
moh...@ix.netcom.com (Mohan) wrote:
> Just to clarify, I originally posted as Leo(as I have 2 e-mail
> addresses). What I reffered to as dasa, I meant Bhukti. I was running
> Mercury dasa, which is my second lord in virgo(therefore in exaltation
> in the second house) and sun bhukti. My Sun is well posited in my
> horoscope(unlike mercury which does have ucha bhanga as it is
> debilitated in navamsa). I get fantastic results like I would in Sun
> Bhukti or Antara, but in the periods that are run by planets for which
> sun is the constellation lord. Before you start criticicing my system,
> try it out and you will see for yourself. Mohan
I am curious about two things: are you currently wearing any precious
or semi-precious stones (from the Upaaye point of view), and in which
areas of life are the results fantastic as you mention?
Dhanyavaad in advance.
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
Prem Thomas
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
>
> Continuing contact with the clients is a must. The Jyotishi
> will find it very useful to record the events in their lives
> as and when they occur to help in establishing certain patterns.
> As present acts cotinue to modify how and when events will
> manifest, according to Karm(ic) principles, so is information
> related to one's Jyotish project updated.
There's an old saying that goes, "Bend a twig, and you stir the most
distant star.". This is the ultimate "out" of any forecasting system
like astrology: you changed circumstance. Well, then you simply can't
predict. I'm reminded of the reply by T.Lobsang Rampa(the famous
"third-eye" buddhist reincarnation of someone or the other), who, when
challenged by disbelievers to predict the outcome of a race at Ascot
said, "You can't do that without casting the horoscope of every horse,
every trainer and every owner in the race.". Well, there you go!
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <E8xIn...@nonexistent.com>,
The fact is that using Jyotish one *does* predict. I have posted
several examples of correct predictions. Of course, the skeptics
always have the out: It must have been a coincidence. Fine, they
are free to label Jyotish as "Coincidence Science" if they wish!
Another point to keep in mind is that true Jyotish science is not
based on some notion of "destiny", which is often an underlying
motivation in Judeo-Christian and other thought. Instead, Jyotish
addresses the consequences of actions according to the principles
of Karm(a) rooted in Hinduism and related systems. And, how and
when events will manifest is modifiable. "As the burning fire
reduces fuel to ashes, so does wisdom reduce 'Karm(a)' to ashes."
- The Bhagavad Geeta. As far as the example of the race horses
given above is concerned, yes, it is advisable to begin with as
much data as possible.
Prem Thomas
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
> In article <E8xIn...@nonexistent.com>,
> Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > There's an old saying that goes, "Bend a twig, and you stir the most
> > distant star.". This is the ultimate "out" of any forecasting system
> > like astrology: you changed circumstance. Well, then you simply can't
> > predict. I'm reminded of the reply by T.Lobsang Rampa(the famous
> > "third-eye" buddhist reincarnation of someone or the other), who, when
> > challenged by disbelievers to predict the outcome of a race at Ascot
> > said, "You can't do that without casting the horoscope of every horse,
> > every trainer and every owner in the race.". Well, there you go!
>
> several examples of correct predictions. Of course, the skeptics
> always have the out: It must have been a coincidence. Fine, they
> are free to label Jyotish as "Coincidence Science" if they wish!
I believe I had asked you, as a leading practitioner/advocate of
"jyotish", to make a reasonably accurate forecast of the presidential
primaries and election. You declined by silence. Fear of Coincidence's
fearfully irregular record, perhaps?
> Another point to keep in mind is that true Jyotish science is not
> based on some notion of "destiny", which is often an underlying
> motivation in Judeo-Christian and other thought. Instead, Jyotish
> addresses the consequences of actions according to the principles
> of Karm(a) rooted in Hinduism and related systems. And, how and
> when events will manifest is modifiable.
And there, Jai, is your "out".
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <E8z6K...@nonexistent.com>,
Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
>
> Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>>
>> In article <E8xIn...@nonexistent.com>,
>> Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
> I believe I had asked you, as a leading practitioner/advocate of
> "jyotish", to make a reasonably accurate forecast of the presidential
> primaries and election. You declined by silence. Fear of Coincidence's
> fearfully irregular record, perhaps?
No, the thought of "fear" has originated in the mind
of Prem Thomas, as evidenced above. The predictions I
have published, as mentioned earlier, have been correct --
thanks only to Jyotish. Persons are free and welcome
to retain the services of professional astrologers.
I am not aware of any astrologer, or any other provider
of services for that matter, who routinely harvest
clients by responding to public challenges and ridicule.
Jai Maharaj
Iychettira M. Ganapathy
In article <3354A9...@geocities.com>, leo...@geocities.com wrote:
Just in fairness, B. V. Raman does cover the Nakshatras in other books, and
constantly uses them and refers to them in making his predictions and in
answering questions. The original of How to Judge a Horoscope having been
published in 1941, in context of the very limited information available in
any but ancient languages at that time, he probably felt that there was no
alternative but to focus on the basics. It is in fact a mark of his success
that you have so many better choices available now in English.
Good for you, bringing up the whole issu for discussion.
Iychettira M. Ganapathy
Mohan
Dear Prem,
I have come full circle from skeptic to beleiver. In our discussion
let us discount Jai Maharaj. Based on what I have seen of his postings
on vedic astrology, I doubt if he really knows any at all.
My rendevous with astrology was based on a bunch of coincidences. I
took it up to prove the fact that astrology was mere hogwash and that
the practicioners were frauds. However I decided to study it in some
detail, before running into some conclusion, as you would all science.
My first encounters with astrology were through reading a well known
astrologer called B V Raman. I read all his books and tried applying
his theories to my own and other known horoscopes and tried to retrofit
events. The results were at best questionable and at worst disastrous.
In fact in my own horoscope I found quite the opposite of predicted
results. I cut short the results and prematurely concluded that there
was no truth in astrology.
After placing things on the backburner for a while, I went to India
and in a brief stay spent time with an old friend, with whom I had
begun the study of astrology a while ago. I found that my friend was
predicting with a fair degree of accuracy now. The only difference was
that he had discarded the theories of B V Raman and was now following
the works of another renowned astrologer called Prof K S Krishnamurti.
I saw him predict past and present events to the T and he does not
have any Sidha or oracle powers. This was done in a purely scientific
manner. He did it in 2 stages
1. He used the appearance of the person, as well as past events to
correct the native's time of birth
2. He used the corrected time of birth to reconstruct the chart which
included both placedian(western) and vedic charts.
Then he used the newly constructed chart to predict events to the T.
He had no psychic powers whatsoever.
I subsequently learnt his techniques, got back to the US, sat with
all the horoscopes I had collected and tried to retrofit events that
had already occured in people's lives. After an initial bout of
frustration and going back and forth with my friend, I have been able
to obtain at last decent results. The method in many cases works
consistantly.
Now I can say all this is hogwash, as there is no scientific basis to
it all. However if a pattern reccurs on a consistant basis, then you
will agree with me that it is not to be discarded and needs to be
investigated. As a matter of fact, early science could be discarded the
same way. Early science was in fact based on observation, the reasoning
came later, but the statistical patterns were the ones that were first
observed. To build a theory behind it takes time, and given the
skepticism that sorounds astrology, and the lack of funding for efforts
to do research, it takes even more time.
Astology, I have come to beleive is a very useful discipline. If it
can be used to predict eathquakes and other natural disasters, can be
used very well as a preventive measure. It needs funding and dedicated
souls to do research. While I dont want or expect anyone to beleive it,
it definitely requires at least a fraction of the attention that is
given to other disciplines. Especially given the ammount of correlation
that is observed between what is predicted and what is observed.
Mohan
In <8616379...@dejanews.com> j...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
writes:
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5ji2po$9...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
moh...@ix.netcom.com (Mohan) wrote:
> I have come full circle from skeptic to beleiver. In our discussion
> let us discount Jai Maharaj. Based on what I have seen of his postings
How many posts of mine have you read; did you consult the archives
at DejaNews? I will be interested in knowing as to which specific
post or posts lead you to your opinion expressed above. This will
help me study more and rise to meet your standards. I was taught
Jyotish since early childhood in Bharat and now have more than 40
years of experience in it. It is true that one requires several
lifetimes to master this science, but my Guru(s)have showered
kindness by declaring that I have made the proper beginning.
Jai Maharaj
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
[Cc: moh...@ix.netcom.com ]
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5ji2po$9...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
moh...@ix.netcom.com(Mohan) wrote:
> . . . My first encounters with astrology were through
> reading a well known astrologer called B V Raman. . . .
Here is one part of a series of
articles by the esteemed Dr. Raman:
VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF MEDICAL SCIENCE
PART 1
Excerpts from a lecture delivered by Dr. B.V. Raman at
the Apollo Hospital, Madras, on September 5, 1991. The
world-renowned prediction scientist is addressing a
gathering of medical doctors, scientists, researchers
and members of the international press.
Nn N ATURE seems to play heads and tails with our physical and
N N N mental qualities. Western astronomers competed with one
N N N another in proclaiming that this Universe was beyond any
N nN scale of man's. How could it ever be imagined that the
puny insignificant man comprising of scraps of flesh and
blood stuck to our tiny globe due to gravity, be influenced by
the celestial bodies?
On the other side, geneticists claimed to have
discovered a strange incredible world in the gene and they
thought that they had given an answer to the question of our
fate, that is to say, heredity. They said that Nature decides,
at the moment of conception, our physical and mental qualities.
All the information stamped on our genetic code can be
deciphered which means we can also decipher our future. It is
all there -- our physical strength, our weaknesses, character
pre-disposition and intelligence -- even to the moment when this
mysterious machine, namely, our body becomes disordered and
breaks down finally.
Dr. Kallman of the Psychiatric Institute of New York
says, "Every being has inside him a clock set at the moment of
his birth which predetermines particular illnesses and
accidents." Whether the hands on the clock can be read correctly
is of course a different matter.
The gap between astronomers and -- those who wanted to
know what the Universe was made of, and geneticists -- those who
wanted to know what man was made of, became a yawning gulf. The
sky of the astronomers was not connected with man's future and
man as revealed by the biologists had no need of the sky to know
his destiny. This was the confusion in the thinking of western
scientists.
But the thinking of our Sages was on a different level.
Their approach to man and the Universe was holistic. Man and the
Universe cannot be separated from each other. Therefore they
were the first to bridge the gulf between astronomy and biology
with the great discipline of Astrology.
In ancient India, Astrology and medicine were intimately
connected. An Ayurvedic or medical doctor was required to be an
astrologer too. But with the introduction of western Allopathy
into India, largely backed by the missionaries, the importance
of Astrology, as a diagnostic test, was reduced for a time.
But now a reaction appears to have already set in
largely due to the fact that a handful of leading medical men in
Europe and America ad in India also have been experimenting with
medical Astrology.
Doctors are becoming intensely interested in the
correspondence between solar activity and the number of heart
strokes, hypertension cases, nerve diseases and even the
harmless appendix trouble.
An experienced astrologer can indicate the
predisposition of a person towards heart trouble, high blood
pressure, cancer, etc. with considerable accuracy.
[End of Part 1]
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Mohan
Dear Dr Maharaj,
It is posting of articles like this devoid of content albeit with
much hype that make me doubt your capacity as a astrolgical researcher.
Let me explain where I am coming from, so that you fully understand why
I say so. The article below talks about using vedic astrology as a
technique for medical diagnosis, but it does not say how. Here you are
promoting B V Raman as a leading astrologer, when in fact his speech in
appolo hospital is one of much hype and no substance. This is reflected
in his books as well, full of ambiguity.
Prof K S Krishnamurti on the other hand, is one of the first
astrological researchers of our times. Just to give you a little
background, he arrived at his technique by studying Nadi(Pulse)
astrologers making accurate predictions not indicated otherwise by the
standard vedic techniques. As the pulse astrologer was pronouncing the
results of a client, K got curious. This was not something that the
charts were indicating, however the predictions were accurate to the T.
He therefore in the tradition of a true scientist decided to
investigate. The technique that he came up with were the results of
years of research, which I hope we will all carry thro in his
tradition.
He found that the results that the pulse astrologer was arriving at
correlated with the constellation(nakshatra) lord of the planet
operating the dasa rather than the dasa lord itself. He further found
that the favorability of the result offered by the constellation lord
was modified by the sub lord corresponding to the longitude of the dasa
lord. Using this as a canvas to do his research, he further found that
using Placedian houses rather than the rasi system used in standard
vedic yielded more accurate results.
What Prof Krishnamurti has done is just a begining. His biggest
contribution is to allow scientific methods to be followed in what was
the domain of the mystics.
Mohan
In <8617271...@dejanews.com> j...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
writes:
>
Prem Thomas
Mohan wrote:
>
>
> Astology, I have come to beleive is a very useful discipline. If it
> can be used to predict eathquakes and other natural disasters, can be
> used very well as a preventive measure. It needs funding and dedicated
> souls to do research. While I dont want or expect anyone to beleive it,
> it definitely requires at least a fraction of the attention that is
> given to other disciplines. Especially given the ammount of correlation
Mohan,
All I can say to you is what advisors tell researchers who want funding
or enlargement of a project: Publish! Publish!
Regards,
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <5jkgg1$4...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
moh...@ix.netcom.com (Mohan) wrote:
>
> Dear Dr Maharaj,
> It is posting of articles like this devoid of content albeit with
> much hype that make me doubt your capacity as a astrolgical researcher.
First, please use DejaNews and read my posts to find their content;
currently posts are archived in their base dating back to March,1995
but I have been posting astrology-related article since long before that.
Then, please return and publish your comments. I try to publish all
success stories related to Jyotish, but if that is "hype" to you then
so be it. Please note that it is because of the spread of Jyotish in
this manner that several large corporations now employ the science
in their conduct of business! Please read our scriptures to learn
that one of the tasks of a Jyotishi is to spread what he or she
has learned.
Second, Jyotish is my profession -- *not* an area of research in the
sense that I will neglect the wisdom of our ancient sage-scientists and
replace it with some experimental theories in my service to my clients.
I regularly participate in learning from new theories and methods but
will incorporate them into my service to clients only after my Guru(s) in
Bharat will so recommend.
> Let me explain where I am coming from, so that you fully understand why
> I say so. The article below talks about using vedic astrology as a
> technique for medical diagnosis, but it does not say how. Here you are
> promoting B V Raman as a leading astrologer, when in fact his speech in
> appolo hospital is one of much hype and no substance. This is reflected
> in his books as well, full of ambiguity.
I did not post additional parts of the series. Please do not force
yourself to arrive at conclusions without studying something completely.
I have nothing but praise and admiration for Dr. Raman and many other
leading astrologers. I note that you insulted him in a previous post.
There is an important lesson in our Jyotish scriptures: If you do not
understand why Guru(s) and learned persons say something, then know
that they have a reason. The teaching given to me is that it becomes
our task to discover the reason, and certainly not a cue to deride them!
If you find ambiguity in Dr. Raman's (or anyone else's) Jyotish
teaching , attempt to learn their resolution. Contact the teachers
and ask them about the specific points -- rather than publishing libel
against them. This is my suggestion.
> Prof K S Krishnamurti on the other hand, is one of the first
> astrological researchers of our times. . . .
"Promoting" someone, huh? I say this because you accused me of
"promoting" Dr. Raman. If you read my posts of the past few years,
you will find that I have "promoted" many leading astrologers.
> Just to give you a little background, he arrived at his technique
> by studying Nadi(Pulse) astrologers making accurate predictions not i
> ndicated otherwise by the standard vedic techniques. . . .
Yes, I have studied the system thoroughly -- and teach it to my students.
> As the pulse astrologer was pronouncing the
> results of a client, K got curious. This was not something that the
> charts were indicating, however the predictions were accurate to the T.
> He therefore in the tradition of a true scientist decided to
> investigate. The technique that he came up with were the results of
> years of research, which I hope we will all carry thro in his
> tradition. . . .
There is doubt that the Krishnamurti system will become a tradition;
better yet, that it will be synthesized into the whole of Jyotish science.
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
[ Cc: moh...@ix.netcom.com ]
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <E936C...@nonexistent.com>,
Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
>
> Mohan wrote:
>> Astology, I have come to beleive is a very useful discipline. If it
>> can be used to predict eathquakes and other natural disasters, can be
>> used very well as a preventive measure. It needs funding and dedicated
>> souls to do research.
> Mohan,
> All I can say to you is what advisors tell researchers who want funding
> or enlargement of a project: Publish! Publish! - pre...@qed.net
The sincerity of the above suggestion by Prem Thomas is
in doubt, for when he does encounter a published work related
to astrology he makes remarks such as the following ridicule
he posted upon encountering excerpts from THE FALL OF ABHIJIT:
NOTES ON THE MAHABHARAT (by Dr. P. V. Vartak) :
> Subject: Re: THE FALL OF ABHIJIT (Star Vega)
> From: Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net>
> Date: October 19, 1996
> Message-Id: <DzIo5...@news2.new-york.net>
> X-Nntp-Posting-Host: nyack-52.qed.net
> References: <E68ZyQ9z...@mantra.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.jyotish,alt.astrology.asian,
> sci.astrology.hindu,sci.astrology.misc,
> alt.fan.jai-maharaj,hawaii.nortle
>
> Have you ever read Rapunzel, Jai? Or Little Red Riding Hood?
> How about Superman and Batman? They're all real-life stories, you know.......
>
> Prem
>
> pre...@qed.net
End of Specimen
The Abhijit article is available at my web site as well as
in the DejaNew archives.
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Prem Thomas
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
> In article <E936C...@nonexistent.com>,
> Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
> >
> > Mohan wrote:
> >> Astology, I have come to beleive is a very useful discipline. If it
> >> can be used to predict eathquakes and other natural disasters, can be
> >> used very well as a preventive measure. It needs funding and dedicated
> >> souls to do research.
>
> > Mohan,
> > All I can say to you is what advisors tell researchers who want funding
> > or enlargement of a project: Publish! Publish! - pre...@qed.net
>
> The sincerity of the above suggestion by Prem Thomas is
> in doubt, for when he does encounter a published work related
> to astrology he makes remarks such as the following ridicule
> he posted upon encountering excerpts from THE FALL OF ABHIJIT:
> NOTES ON THE MAHABHARAT (by Dr. P. V. Vartak) :
Jai, if you had half of an analytical brain, you'd know what my
suggestion was. Since you are apparently too simple-minded, let me put
it in plainer words: when a researcher seeks to stimulate
interest/obtain funding, he publishes papers detailing his research and
providing enough scientific evidence of his postulation to intrigue his
target. Obviously, in the case of astrology, which purports to be able
to almost clinically forecast the future, the proof of the pudding would
be in consistent, accurate *predictions*, not the claptrap mish-mash of
guesswork, regurgitated analysis and a wish-list that you pass off as
"predictions" at your website.
> > Subject: Re: THE FALL OF ABHIJIT (Star Vega)
> > From: Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net>
> > Date: October 19, 1996
> > Message-Id: <DzIo5...@news2.new-york.net>
> > X-Nntp-Posting-Host: nyack-52.qed.net
> > References: <E68ZyQ9z...@mantra.com>
> > Newsgroups: alt.astrology,alt.jyotish,alt.astrology.asian,
> > sci.astrology.hindu,sci.astrology.misc,
> > alt.fan.jai-maharaj,hawaii.nortle
> >
> > Have you ever read Rapunzel, Jai? Or Little Red Riding Hood?
> > How about Superman and Batman? They're all real-life stories, you know.......
> >
> > Prem
> >
> > pre...@qed.net
Interestingly, you didn't post the entire article(which was directed at
you, BTW, not > upon encountering excerpts from THE FALL OF ABHIJIT:
> NOTES ON THE MAHABHARAT (by Dr. P. V. Vartak) :
thereby intentionally suppressing the context of my remarks. But that is
typical of your strategy. Do you wish me to dig up and post your
articles to show you for the cheap(meaning unclassy), narrow-minded,
manipulative and bigoted person you really are? On the other hand, I
guess people who REALLY want to know will do their own Dejanews
search(old archives).
I see you still insist on afflicting hawaii-nortle.
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Mohan
Truth is what one experiences, it is not what one is told. This is the
nature of science, it is also what vedanta tells us. Read Sankara's
viveka chudamani and you will understand what I am talking about.
I am the least interested in listening to stories on how someone used
astrology to do this or that. It conveys no information and it is
NOISE. What I care about for the purposes of my research are the
techniques that were used to predict something and the degree of sucess
in terms of the results that were yielded from such techniques. If you
notice my original post on krishnamurti padhati went into some detail
about the techniques used to predict and also a note on the results.
that were yielded by using the technique. When I find time, I will
post one or two examples and we can start a healthy debate on that and
maybe all of us me included will learn something from it.
You say that Jyotish is your profession and not ur area of research.
Research in a field is the highest form of practice of that field. A
medical researcher is a doctor, and every doctor does a fair ammount of
medical research. Every patient he/she treats is a sample for the
doctor and he becomes better at his skills by going over more and more
patients. If a doctor were to say that he will not change his
techniques even if they are in disagreement with the results yielded
with his patients, because his medical college professor had taught him
otherwise... well best of luck to those who go to him.
You keep parroting this wisdom of the sages/rishis thing again and
again. What you dont realize is that people like Varahamihira and
others were in actuality scientists and astronomers. They did a heck of
a lot of research before pronouncing their results and the results they
pronounced at that time were based on both observed astronomical
phenomenon as well as events that occured. They sat down, correlated
the astro phenomenon and the events that occured and from the
correlation they pronounced a set of rules which may have made sense at
that time. In no way did they preclude others from making progress or
disproving their theories. In fact I am sure they improved and
sometimes discarded some of the theories of the astrologers before
them. So there is no need to hide behind the Guru's, rishis, munis and
sages. Your Guru has provided you with a set of axioms to work with,
and if you listened to him carefully, you would have understood very
clearly that the set he provided you with is by no means complete. No
set of axioms governing any discipline is either ever complete or for
that matter always correct. There is always plus ultra and there will
always be mistakes.
B V Raman may have acheived a degree of success in promoting vedic
astrology to the western world. However as far as his predictions and
his techniques go, he leaves much to be desired. As a famous Indian
astrologer, he had in his hands the horoscopes of every Indian
politician, yet not once has his astrological magazine accurately
predicted any of the Bizzare political events like the assasinations of
Indira and Rajeev. You might say that he may have not done it out of
prudence. Even if he had told any of these people in private, it would
have been evident by their beefing up of security. However in both
cases the induviduals were caught totally unawares and were at a point
where they had made themselves security risks by their actions. However
Raman has the good sense to include Indira Gandhi's horoscope in his
book as an example and tries to explain why her death occured when it
did. If there are no set rules, you can explain anything by using an
arbitrary set. That is what I resent and that is what I dislike about
him. He is less than honest.
What is needed is a set of clearly defined axioms, rules that one
will consistantly use to predict. Explain where you need to improvise.
Then, even then you have a good chance of failing. When you fail, look
at why you failed, go back to the drawing board, look for patterns and
figure out what other extraneous factor you ignored. Now you have an
additional rule.
Stop treating astrology like black magic, treat it like you would any
other science. By a skeptic and question everything. That is how I will
begin to respect your professional integrity.
Mohan
In <8618201...@dejanews.com> j...@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
writes:
>
>In article <5jkgg1$4...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
> moh...@ix.netcom.com (Mohan) wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dr Maharaj,
>> It is posting of articles like this devoid of content albeit with
>> much hype that make me doubt your capacity as a astrolgical
researcher.
>> . . .
>
>First, please use DejaNews and read my posts to find their content;
>currently posts are archived in their base dating back to March,1995
>but I have been posting astrology-related article since long before
that.
>Then, please return and publish your comments. I try to publish all
>success stories related to Jyotish, but if that is "hype" to you then
>so be it. Please note that it is because of the spread of Jyotish in
>this manner that several large corporations now employ the science
>in their conduct of business! Please read our scriptures to learn
>that one of the tasks of a Jyotishi is to spread what he or she
>has learned.
>
>Second, Jyotish is my profession -- *not* an area of research in the
>sense that I will neglect the wisdom of our ancient sage-scientists
and
>replace it with some experimental theories in my service to my
clients.
>I regularly participate in learning from new theories and methods but
>will incorporate them into my service to clients only after my Guru(s)
in
>Bharat will so recommend.
>
>> Let me explain where I am coming from, so that you fully understand
why
>> I say so. The article below talks about using vedic astrology as a
>> technique for medical diagnosis, but it does not say how. Here you
are
>> promoting B V Raman as a leading astrologer, when in fact his speech
in
>> appolo hospital is one of much hype and no substance. This is
reflected
>> in his books as well, full of ambiguity.
>
>I did not post additional parts of the series. Please do not force
>yourself to arrive at conclusions without studying something
completely.
>I have nothing but praise and admiration for Dr. Raman and many other
>leading astrologers. I note that you insulted him in a previous post.
>There is an important lesson in our Jyotish scriptures: If you do not
>understand why Guru(s) and learned persons say something, then know
>that they have a reason. The teaching given to me is that it becomes
>our task to discover the reason, and certainly not a cue to deride
them!
>If you find ambiguity in Dr. Raman's (or anyone else's) Jyotish
>teaching , attempt to learn their resolution. Contact the teachers
>and ask them about the specific points -- rather than publishing libel
>against them. This is my suggestion.
>
>> Prof K S Krishnamurti on the other hand, is one of the first
>> astrological researchers of our times. . . .
>
>"Promoting" someone, huh? I say this because you accused me of
>"promoting" Dr. Raman. If you read my posts of the past few years,
>you will find that I have "promoted" many leading astrologers.
>
>> Just to give you a little background, he arrived at his technique
>> by studying Nadi(Pulse) astrologers making accurate predictions not
i
>> ndicated otherwise by the standard vedic techniques. . . .
>
>Yes, I have studied the system thoroughly -- and teach it to my
students.
>
>> As the pulse astrologer was pronouncing the
>> results of a client, K got curious. This was not something that the
>> charts were indicating, however the predictions were accurate to the
T.
>> He therefore in the tradition of a true scientist decided to
>> investigate. The technique that he came up with were the results of
>> years of research, which I hope we will all carry thro in his
>> tradition. . . .
>
>There is doubt that the Krishnamurti system will become a tradition;
>better yet, that it will be synthesized into the whole of Jyotish
science.
>
>Jai Maharaj
>Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
>http://www.flex.com/~jai
>Om Shanti
>
> [ Cc: moh...@ix.netcom.com ]
Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article <E9534...@nonexistent.com>,
Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
>
> Jai, if you had half of an analytical brain . . .
> - Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net>
> [...Rest of Prem Thomas' trash deleted...]
There goes Prem Thomas with his personal insults again without basis.
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.flex.com/~jai
Om Shanti
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Dr. Jai Maharaj
On January 25, 1997,
in article <E4K6C...@nonexistent.com> ,
in newsgroups soc.culture.indian, alt.jyotish , etc.,
Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
>
> Jai Maharaj wrote:
> I published no predictions with respect to Bob Dole
> and the recent elections in the U.S.
>
>> I never implied you *actually* made a prediction(you can't), but your
>> headers indicated that Bob Dole was a shoe-in. My point is:astrology,
>> tarot-card readings, palmistry etc. are all absolute humbug designed to
>> dupe unsuspecting and vulnerable people, and you are a prime
>> propagandist(at least on the 'net) for those misleading "arts".
>>
>> ..Prem
>> mailto:pre...@qed.net
Two questions arise:
* Why is Prem Thomas publishing falsehoods,
* Why is Prem Thomas still participating in astrology discussions
when he finds the subject of no value to himself?
Prem Thomas
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
> On January 25, 1997,
> in article <E4K6C...@nonexistent.com> ,
> in newsgroups soc.culture.indian, alt.jyotish , etc.,
> Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
> >
> > Jai Maharaj wrote:
> > I published no predictions with respect to Bob Dole
> > and the recent elections in the U.S.
> >
> >> I never implied you *actually* made a prediction(you can't), but your
> >> headers indicated that Bob Dole was a shoe-in. My point is:astrology,
> >> tarot-card readings, palmistry etc. are all absolute humbug designed to
> >> dupe unsuspecting and vulnerable people, and you are a prime
> >> propagandist(at least on the 'net) for those misleading "arts".
> >>
> >> ..Prem
> >> mailto:pre...@qed.net
>
> Two questions arise:
> * Why is Prem Thomas publishing falsehoods,
> * Why is Prem Thomas still participating in astrology discussions
> when he finds the subject of no value to himself?
Answers:
1: Point out the "falsehoods".
2: You are partly right in that they provide no value to myself. The
reason that I do tend to respond to Jai Maharaj's "astrological
discussions" are:
a)The man has a disreputable ulterior motive(IMO).
b)This sort of nonsense is what has enslaved the Indian people(among
others)for millenia. It is time to break the shackles, and empower the
individual.
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
Prem Thomas
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
> In article <E9534...@nonexistent.com>,
> Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net> wrote:
> >
> > Jai, if you had half of an analytical brain . . .
> > - Prem Thomas <pre...@qed.net>
> > [...Rest of Prem Thomas' trash deleted...]
>
> There goes Prem Thomas with his personal insults again without basis.
The basis, my dear man, is your unintelligent follow-up, to wit:
> > Mohan,
> > All I can say to you is what advisors tell researchers who want funding
> > or enlargement of a project: Publish! Publish! - pre...@qed.net
>
> The sincerity of the above suggestion by Prem Thomas is
> in doubt, for when he does encounter a published work related
> to astrology he makes remarks such as the following ridicule
> he posted upon encountering excerpts from THE FALL OF ABHIJIT:
> NOTES ON THE MAHABHARAT (by Dr. P. V. Vartak) :
I dislike repeating myself, and I have already done so not once, but
twice, on the sympathetic assumption that you were too slow-witted to
understand me. Now, please take the relevant posts, and consult with
someone of reputable intelligence.
Prem
mailto:pre...@qed.net
P.S.: By the way, Jai, when did you put the newsgroup
"alt.flame.prem-thomas" to a vote? Must have bypassed my server! I
understand your discomfort, but am not sympathetic, at being one of the
few individuals that have had an alt.flame.* newsgroup dedicated to you
by a broad cross-section, and by broad consensus, of the readership.
That newsgroup is alt.flame.jay-stevens , one of Jai's alter-ego's.