The U.S. War on Journalists
Dr. James West, Ph.D.
...the U.S. is the bad guy...and has been for decades...
The U.S. War on Journalists
May 7, 2008
Amy Goodman
Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been imprisoned by the U.S.
military for more than six years. His crime: journalism.
Targeting journalists, the Bush administration has engaged in direct
assault, intimidation, imprisonment and information blackouts to limit
the ability of journalists to do their jobs. The principal target these
past seven years has been Al-Jazeera, the Arabic television network based
in Doha, Qatar.
In November 2001, despite the fact that Al-Jazeera had given the U.S.
military the coordinates of its office in Kabul, U.S. warplanes bombed
Al-Jazeera’s bureau there, destroying it. An Al-Jazeera reporter covering
the George Bush-Vladimir Putin summit in Crawford, Texas, in the same
month was detained by the FBI because his credit card was “linked to
Afghanistan.” In spring 2003, the U.S. dropped four bombs on the Sheraton
hotel in Basra, Iraq, where Al-Jazeera correspondents—the only
journalists reporting from that city—were the lone guests. Another
Al-Jazeera staffer showed his ID to a U.S. Marine at a Baghdad
checkpoint, only to have his car fired upon by the Marines. He was
unhurt. That can’t be said for Tareq Ayyoub, an Al-Jazeera correspondent
who was on the roof of the network’s bureau in Baghdad on April 8, 2003,
when a U.S. warplane strafed it. He was killed. His widow, Dima Tahboub,
told me: “Hate breeds hate. The United States said they were doing this
to rout out terrorism. Who is engaged in terrorism now?”
Then there is the story of Sami al-Haj. A cameraman for Al-Jazeera, he
was reporting on the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. On Dec. 15, 2001,
while in a Pakistani town near the Afghanistan border, Haj was arrested,
then imprisoned in Afghanistan. Six months later, shackled and gagged, he
was flown to the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay. Haj was held there for
close to six years, repeatedly interrogated and never charged with any
crime, never tried in a court. He engaged in a hunger strike for more
than a year, but was force-fed by his jailers with a feeding tube sent
into his stomach through his nose. Haj was abruptly released this week.
The U.S. government announced that he was being transferred to the
custody of Sudan, his home nation, but the government of Sudan took no
action against him. He was rushed to an emergency room, and soon was seen
on his old network, Al-Jazeera:
“I’m very happy to be in Sudan, but I’m very sad because of the situation
of our brothers who remain in Guantanamo. Conditions in Guantanamo are
very, very bad, and they get worse by the day. Our human condition, our
human dignity was violated, and the American administration went beyond
all human values, all moral values, all religious values. In Guantanamo,
you have animals that are called iguanas, rats that are treated with more
humanity. But we have people from more than 50 countries that are
completely deprived of all rights and privileges, and they will not give
them the rights that they give to animals.” He described the desecration
of the Quran as part of the effort to break him: “They hold the Quran in
contempt, destroyed it several times and put their dirty feet on it. They
also sat on the Quran while trying to get us angry. They repeatedly
committed violations against our dignity and our sexual organs.” At least
one official in the Defense Department has denied the charges.
Asim al-Haj, Sami’s brother, told me in an interview last January about
the 130 interrogations: “During these times, the interrogations were all
about Al-Jazeera and alleged relations between Al-Jazeera and al-Qaida.
They tried to induce him to spy on his colleagues at Al-Jazeera.”
According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, 10 journalists have
been held for extended periods by the U.S. military and then released
without charge. Just weeks ago in Iraq, the U.S. military released
Pulitzer Prize-winning Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein after
holding him without charge for two years. The military had once accused
Hussein of being a “terrorist media operative who infiltrated the AP.”
The committee reports that 127 journalists and an additional 50 media
workers have been killed in Iraq since 2003, well more than twice the
number killed in World War II. We need to remind the Bush administration:
Don’t shoot the messenger.
----------------------------------------------------------
Amy Goodman is the host of “Democracy Now!,” a daily international
TV/radio news hour airing on 650 stations in North America. Her third
book, “Standing Up to the Madness: Ordinary Heroes in Extraordinary
Times,” was published in April.
© 2008 Amy Goodman
http://www.democracynow.org/
Eugene Griessel
>The U.S. War on Journalists
All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
society and should be eradicated without question. Good for the US!
Eugene L Griessel
It is better to be the object of a noisy demonstration than
a quiet assassination.
- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
Jack Linthicum
As a former journalist I would question the desire for that by the
target.
Have you seen Arnold Schwarzenneger's latest bit of wisdom: "come to
America, attend community college, marry a Kennedy, "
La N
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2e889282-7a33-46dd...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 8, 4:38 am, eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene Griessel) wrote:
>> "Dr. James West, Ph.D." <n...@nobull.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The U.S. War on Journalists
>>
>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>> society and should be eradicated without question. Good for the US!
>>
>> Eugene L Griessel
>>
>> It is better to be the object of a noisy demonstration than
>> a quiet assassination.
>>
>> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
>
> As a former journalist I would question the desire for that by the
> target.
As a former journalist myself, I resemble that remark! Apart from that,
waterboard them all!
>
> Have you seen Arnold Schwarzenneger's latest bit of wisdom: "come to
> America, attend community college, marry a Kennedy, "
I might pass on the community college and Kennedy bit. I may consider
spending winter in Palm Springs.
- nilita
Nigel Brooks
news:NpudnRk6MthyLr_VnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@toastnet...
>
> ...the U.S. is the bad guy...and has been for decades...
>
> The U.S. War on Journalists
> May 7, 2008
> Amy Goodman
>
> Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been imprisoned by the U.S.
> military for more than six years. His crime: journalism.
>
> Targeting journalists, the Bush administration has engaged in direct
> assault, intimidation, imprisonment and information blackouts to limit
> the ability of journalists to do their jobs.
Did it ever occur to you that if indeed the current administration was using
those kind of tactics against it's detractors and critics - that you would
be sitting in a cell in Guantanamo?
Fetch
Nigel Brooks
Eugene Griessel
Please, please! Oh yes!
Eugene L Griessel
Experts are people who have stopped thinking - they know!
deem...@aol.com
> "Nigel Brooks" <nbro...@msn.com> wrote:
> >"Dr. James West, Ph.D." <n...@nobull.com> wrote in message
> >news:NpudnRk6MthyLr_VnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@toastnet...
>
> >> ...the U.S. is the bad guy...and has been for decades...
>
> >> The U.S. War on Journalists
> >> May 7, 2008
> >> Amy Goodman
>
> >> Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been imprisoned by the U.S.
> >> military for more than six years. His crime: journalism.
>
> >> Targeting journalists, the Bush administration has engaged in direct
> >> assault, intimidation, imprisonment and information blackouts to limit
> >> the ability of journalists to do their jobs.
>
> >Did it ever occur to you that if indeed the current administration was using
> >those kind of tactics against it's detractors and critics - that you would
> >be sitting in a cell in Guantanamo?
>
> Please, please! Oh yes!
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
>
Eugene Griessel
>On May 8, 10:24=A0am, eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene Griessel) wrote:
>> "Nigel Brooks" <nbro...@msn.com> wrote:
>> >"Dr. James West, Ph.D." <n...@nobull.com> wrote in message
>> >news:NpudnRk6MthyLr_VnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@toastnet...
>>
>> >> ...the U.S. is the bad guy...and has been for decades...
>>
>> >> The U.S. War on Journalists
>> >> =A0 May 7, 2008
>> >> =A0 Amy Goodman
>>
>> >> Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been imprisoned by the U.=
>S.
>> >> military for more than six years. His crime: journalism.
>>
>> >> Targeting journalists, the Bush administration has engaged in direct
>> >> assault, intimidation, imprisonment and information blackouts to limit
>> >> the ability of journalists to do their jobs.
>>
>> >Did it ever occur to you that if indeed the current administration was us=
>ing
>> >those kind of tactics against it's detractors and critics - that you woul=
>d
>> >be sitting in a cell in Guantanamo?
>>
>> Please, please! =A0Oh yes!
>>
>> Eugene L Griessel
>>
>>
> With our luck, they'd leave him with internet access.
Seems to be the thing with the mentally ill too - padded cell and
internet access.
Eugene L Griessel
The difference between genius and stupidity
is that genius has its limits.
William Black
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:482311d6...@news.uunet.co.za...
Read a book called 'Nuromancer' for what happens when you do that...
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Peter Skelton
And a version of OE that only sent to alt.idiot.
Peter Skelton
PussTheBountyHunter
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Come here and sit beside me cuz you are my new best friend.
Rita
fnij...@nospam.net
>"deem...@aol.com" <deem...@aol.com> wrote:
Why not. We let right wign kooks like you characters here, walk free
without an attendant.
zzbu...@netscape.net
That always work in America though! Since there are so many
Kennedy's in America, that's a lot of the reason people invented
Laser-Guided Bombs for community college idiots from California.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
> society and should be eradicated without question.
Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
to have become the dictatorship it is today.
> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
That might explain having something to fear from the press perhaps... (?)
"Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render
the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an
overgrown executive will not long be safe."
"Companions to liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Nigel Brooks" <nbr...@msn.com> wrote in message...
> "Dr. James West, Ph.D." <na...@nobull.com> wrote in message
> >
> > ...the U.S. is the bad guy...and has been for decades...
> >
> > The U.S. War on Journalists
> > May 7, 2008
> > Amy Goodman
> >
> > Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been imprisoned by the U.S.
> > military for more than six years. His crime: journalism.
> >
> > Targeting journalists, the Bush administration has engaged in direct
> > assault, intimidation, imprisonment and information blackouts to limit
> > the ability of journalists to do their jobs.
> Did it ever occur to you that if indeed the current administration was using
> those kind of tactics against it's detractors and critics - that you would
> be sitting in a cell in Guantanamo?
Did it ever occur to you that you are very naive ?
"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the
facts, who refuse to believe that their government and their
media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality
contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and
deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get."
-- Ian Williams Goddard
Eugene Griessel
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>
>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>
>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
brainwashed populace.
>
>
>> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
>
>That might explain having something to fear from the press perhaps... (?)
Who fears the idiots?
Eugene L Griessel
Do not take life too seriously;
you will never get out of it alive.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
> >"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
> >> society and should be eradicated without question.
> >Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
> >to have become the dictatorship it is today.
> That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
> brainwashed populace.
Quite true.... if not the brainwashed, the self-absorbed and ignorant.
> >> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
> >That might explain having something to fear from the press perhaps... (?)
> Who fears the idiots?
It's not the idiots you should fear.... it's the smart ones.
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the
guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
-- James Madison
"Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about
what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased
down in the streets and lynched."
--George H. W. Bush, interview by Sarah McClendon, June 1992
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/84848/
{EXCERPT} AlterNet, CA Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been
imprisoned by the US military for more than six years. His crime: journalism....
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/84848/
War Correspondents/Photo Journalists Discussion/News/Info Exchange Forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/war-correspondents
<re-posted from an article by Otis Willie, PIO>
"It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship,
but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings."
-- Sandra Day O'Connor, March 9, 2006
Peter Skelton
Griessel) wrote:
>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>
>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>
>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>
>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>brainwashed populace.
>
Who works in the laundry?
Peter Skelton
Jack Linthicum
> "Dr. James West, Ph.D." <n...@nobull.com> wrote in messagenews:NpudnRk6MthyLr_VnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@toastnet...
Or in the case of Judith Miller used her imprisonment to cover the
fact that she had been the means by which much of the administration
lies were printed in the semi-prestgious New York Times as if they
were "learned facts" rather than an example of stenographic journalism.
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>
>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>
>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>
> That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
> brainwashed populace.
Indeed.
>
>>
>>
>>> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
>>
>>That might explain having something to fear from the press perhaps...
>>(?)
>
> Who fears the idiots?
>
Hey, Eugene. I still pick up a couple of bucks now and then writing press
releases. Does that mean you don't lurv me anymore? ...;(
- nilita (who was just kidding about the waterboarding part)
Eugene Griessel
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>news:48294623...@news.uunet.co.za...
>> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>>
>>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>>
>> That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>> brainwashed populace.
>
>Indeed.
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> - I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
>>>
>>>That might explain having something to fear from the press perhaps...
>>>(?)
>>
>> Who fears the idiots?
>>
>
>Hey, Eugene. I still pick up a couple of bucks now and then writing press
>releases. Does that mean you don't lurv me anymore? ...;(
Course I do.
I have been a stringer for the local community rag and editor of a
couple of club mags in my time. But just a few years in therapy got
me to a state where I could go out on the street without a paper bag
over my head .....
No, what I object to are those little unconcerned, disinterested
people who are not out to inform people but to sell their media with
as much sensationalism as they can invent. If it means more
disinformation than information they do not care.
Eugene L Griessel
Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
Here's a hint to the gentle readership: Take what *anyone* - including me -
writes with a grain of salt and not as G*d's truth. And, oh, btw, I would
say the same about politicos - their words come from the same salt shaker.
Check various sources before you make up your mind.
However, of course, it's human nature to be attracted to the op-ed piece or
big mouth in the capitol who says/writes what you want to believe.
- nilita
Eugene Griessel
It is a sad state, that at this juncture in human civilisation when
cynicism is so sorely needed, it appears that the broad mass are ever
more gullible. It seems PT Barnum's wildest nightmares did not match
up to the number of suckers now alive.
Eugene L Griessel
Manubay's Laws for programmers:
If a modification of an existing program works,
it is not what the customer wants.
Customers never know what they really want,
but they know for certain what they don't want.
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
Amen, brother. I'm more cynical now than I have ever been in life. I think
... :) :) :)
- nilita
Colin Campbell
<fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>Sami al-Haj
"al-Haj has appeared before a Combatant Status Review Tribunal and
been adjudicated an enemy combatant. Since he was found to be an enemy
combatant by the Combatant Status Review Panel, al-Haj has received
annual hearings before administrative review tribunals that have found
his continuing detention to be justified."
It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
of the conflict.
What's the big deal?
--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Colin Campbell
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Or in the case of Judith Miller used her imprisonment to cover the
>fact that she had been the means by which much of the administration
>lies were printed in the semi-prestgious New York Times as if they
>were "learned facts" rather than an example of stenographic journalism.
Who believes anything that appears in the NYT? They are as partisan
and ideologically blinded as it is possible to get.
Colin Campbell
<fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>
>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>
>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
There goes your credibility.
BTW - I have watched 'journalists' in action. I was not impressed.
How can you expect accuracy and impartiality from people who have no
accountability?
Colin Campbell
Griessel) wrote:
>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>
>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>
>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>
>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>brainwashed populace.
"brainwashed" = "disagrees with me"?
Vincent Brannigan
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:31:29 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>> Sami al-Haj
>
> "al-Haj has appeared before a Combatant Status Review Tribunal and
> been adjudicated an enemy combatant. Since he was found to be an enemy
> combatant by the Combatant Status Review Panel, al-Haj has received
> annual hearings before administrative review tribunals that have found
> his continuing detention to be justified."
>
> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
> of the conflict.
>
> What's the big deal?
umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
affidavits form :"curveball" are perfectly valid
Vince
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in message news:1aik24909vjem15cs...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:27:54 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >
> >> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
> >> society and should be eradicated without question.
> >Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
> >to have become the dictatorship it is today.
> There goes your credibility.
What the fuck are you talking about? Although it's OT to this post, the
US has never been closer to a dictatorship, and if the current corporate
Coup D'Etat of 2000 continues to de-regulate the stabilizing factors in
the US economy out of sheer greed, you'll see it happen fairly soon
because the people will finally step up to bat for themselves and a
police state will result in order to control them.
> BTW - I have watched 'journalists' in action. I was not impressed.
Oh gee.... you mean you weren't born yesterday? Goodie for you.
In a SO-CALLED, "time of war"... ALL media is censored by the
Pentagon, issued the propaganda talking points of the day, or it's
outright silenced by National Security Letters. I'm not impressed
either.... haven't been since the early 80s.
> How can you expect accuracy and impartiality from people who have no
> accountability?
I don't. I get 90% of my news from foreign sources.
Since Fox News legally won the right to tell outright lies under the guise
of "news" in February of 2003, American mainstream media has become
a bastion of opinions and commentary, flooded by incidental pabulum for
the brain which takes the place of honest news.
Don't look for sunshine at the bottom of a mud pit and you won't be so bitter.
;-)
"America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and
disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I
wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that
the government doesn't want us to know."
-- Gore Vidal
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote...
> What's the big deal?
You were talking about the government using their removal of Habeas
Corpus to intern those who speak out against them. I could give a shit
less about Sami al-Haj (generally speaking)... but I do care about what
few rights that we have left as American citizens.
"The moment war is declared... the mass of the people, through
some spiritual alchemy, become convinced that they have willed
and executed the deed themselves. They then, with the exception
of a few malcontents, proceed to allow themselves to be regimented,
coerced, deranged in all the environments of their lives, and turned
into a solid manufactory of destruction toward whatever other people
may have, in the appointed scheme of things, come within the range
of the Government's disapprobation...
-- Randolph Bourne, "The State", 1918
Richard Casady
<activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote:
> Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>of the conflict.
Sounds pretty harsh. Do you kill him first, or bury him alive.
Isn't interred usually forever? Not just for the duration?
Casady
Zomby...@cox.net
<fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>
>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>
>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>
Or quite possibly it would have required the population to "think" for
themselves.
--
"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli
Zomby...@cox.net
Griessel) wrote:
>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>
>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>
>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>
>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>brainwashed populace.
>
And who brainwashes the populace? The journalists.
The Truth? You can't stand the Truth.
Zomby...@cox.net
Well gee no wonder I don't fit in. I'm a Jaded, Disillusioned Cynic.
Basically a really bad Combo-Meal. That is why I founded the
Contrarian Party.
Zomby...@cox.net
wrote:
Could be just Bi-Polar disease. :)
Zomby...@cox.net
<activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:43:04 GMT, eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene
>Griessel) wrote:
>
>>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>>
>>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>>
>>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>>brainwashed populace.
>
>"brainwashed" = "disagrees with me"?
>
No, filthy mind.
Eugene Griessel
>On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:43:04 GMT, eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene
>Griessel) wrote:
>
>>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>>
>>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>>
>>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>>brainwashed populace.
>>
>And who brainwashes the populace? The journalists.
No. By the time journalists have an effect the brainwashing has been
completed, in early youth. The instinct to believe the media without
question is not something journalists have anything to do with.
Eugene L Griessel
The stone age was marked by man's clever use of crude tools;
the information age, to date, has been marked by man's crude use
of clever tools.
Eugene Griessel
IMHO its only a disease if it has clinical symptoms. When diagnosis
depends on what the patient tells you then, I'm afraid, we are into
con-man country.
Eugene L Griessel
A day for firm decisions!!!!! Or is it?
gjan...@nospam.net
In <r7ik2412sm80ssnco...@4ax.com>, on 05/13/2008
at 07:06 PM, Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove
underscore)> said:
>On Tue, 13 May 2008 04:37:40 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
><jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>Or in the case of Judith Miller used her imprisonment to cover the
>>fact that she had been the means by which much of the administration
>>lies were printed in the semi-prestgious New York Times as if they
>>were "learned facts" rather than an example of stenographic journalism.
>Who believes anything that appears in the NYT? They are as partisan and
>ideologically blinded as it is possible to get.
Only to right wign asses like campbell.
La N
"Richard Casady" <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:484b673a....@news.east.earthlink.net...
Heheh. When you dig him up, then where do you put him. I'm wondering if
they are running out of burial plots at Gitmo.
- nilita
La N
<Zomby...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:oerk24hjod3f6qjid...@4ax.com...
What *is* the truth? Wolfie, I take with a grain of salt what pretty well
all people, including yourself, declare as THE TRUTH.
- nilita
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
I think through the years I've heard "You can trust me" or "You can believe
in me" or "I would never lie to you" or "I'm telling the TRUTH" too many
times to *not* be cynical, if you get my drift ... ;)
- nilita
Eugene Griessel
The TRUTH is always relative. Bound by time, place and culture.
Most of the rogues who expound on the TRUTH are the very ones who
would prevent anyone questioning their version of the TRUTH.
Eugene L Griessel
90% of the job takes 90% of the time.
The other 10% takes the other 90% of the time.
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><Zomby...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:oerk24hjod3f6qjid...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:43:04 GMT, eugene@dynagen..co..za (Eugene
>>> Griessel) wrote:
>>>
>>>>"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
>>>>>> society and should be eradicated without question.
>>>>>
>>>>>Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
>>>>>to have become the dictatorship it is today.
>>>>
>>>>That has little to do with journalists and more to do with the
>>>>brainwashed populace.
>>>>
>>> And who brainwashes the populace? The journalists.
>>>
>>> The Truth? You can't stand the Truth.
>>
>>What *is* the truth? Wolfie, I take with a grain of salt what pretty well
>>all people, including yourself, declare as THE TRUTH.
>
> The TRUTH is always relative. Bound by time, place and culture.
> Most of the rogues who expound on the TRUTH are the very ones who
> would prevent anyone questioning their version of the TRUTH.
>
I know that Colin, and possibly the Wolfman too, consider the press releases
pushed out by their military PAOs to be THE TRUTH.
- nilita
La N
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GWCWj.2130$Yp.1141@edtnps92...
> >
> I know that Colin, and possibly the Wolfman too, consider the press
> releases pushed out by their military PAOs to be THE TRUTH.
>
... and "real journalism" to boot!
- nilita
Jack Linthicum
> "Richard Casady" <richardcas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
What waste good dirt? The Cayman Trench is right next door and is
25,000 feet deep. Room enough for us all.
Jack Linthicum
> "Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
> > Zomby-W...@cox.net wrote:
>
> >>On Tue, 13 May 2008 14:47:42 GMT, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >>>news:4829a407...@news.uunet.co.za...
>
> >>>>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:48299c89...@news.uunet.co.za...
Forget good v. evil. In the Bush Administration, it's a comic book
battle between incompetence and malfeasance. You can never be quite
sure which will prevail.
From The Talking Points Memo blog
La N
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e4481e70-7671-4e26...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
"Us"? You mean including us traitor backstabbing Canadians? Anyway, cool.
I believe there are shipwrecks in the Caymen Trench.
- nilita
Richard Casady
wrote:
>I think through the years I've heard "You can trust me" or "You can believe
>in me" or "I would never lie to you" or "I'm telling the TRUTH" too many
>times to *not* be cynical, if you get my drift ... ;)
There is a story, undoubtedly false, about language software and the
US USSR hot line. The people who operated the thing would send test
messages, sometimes poetry back and forth. It seems that we sent '
trust me' to the Russians who computer translated it into Russian,
which they sent back. When we ran it through our computer and turned
it back into English, it came out 'watch out'. Too good to be true,
but I like it.
Casady
Richard Casady
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>t is a sad state, that at this juncture in human civilisation when
>> >>>> cynicism is so sorely needed, it appears that the broad mass are ever
>> >>>> more gullible. It seems PT Barnum's wildest nightmares did not match
>> >>>> up to the number of suckers now alive.
Barnum said there a sucker born every minute and two to take him. This
comes to a bit over 1.6 million a year. I don't know what the
birthrate was in, say, 1850.
Casady
Eugene Griessel
Hmmm. 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day 365.25 days in a year.
60 x 24 x 365.25 = 525960. Which would work out at about .4% of
people currently born are suckers according to PT. I challenge that.
There are a lot more suckers!
Eugene L Griessel
Attempts have been made by moralists to prove that spiritual
pleasures are keener and more lasting than sensual pleasures;
They carry no conviction. - Somerset Maugham
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 14:16:10 GMT, "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com>
The House GOP's new slogan -- "the change you deserve" -- also happens
to be the marketing slogan for an anti-depressant drug.
Smirnitzkiy (Dictionary) doesn't show that, but the translation may
have been keyed to a vocabulary.
Colin Campbell
<fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>> of the conflict.
>>
>> What's the big deal?
>
>
>umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
In your opinion.
And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
matters is.
Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
disagree with your opinions of it?
Colin Campbell
<fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote...
>
>> What's the big deal?
>
>
>You were talking about the government using their removal of Habeas
>Corpus to intern those who speak out against them. I could give a shit
>less about Sami al-Haj (generally speaking)... but I do care about what
>few rights that we have left as American citizens.
Since when do persons captured on the battlefield need habeas corpus?
Maybe you should read up on what the Geneva Conventions says about
this.
Colin Campbell
And I bet you thought that you were being funny or clever.
Vince Brannigan
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 03:44:40 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
>> "Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote...
>>
>>> What's the big deal?
>>
>> You were talking about the government using their removal of Habeas
>> Corpus to intern those who speak out against them. I could give a shit
>> less about Sami al-Haj (generally speaking)... but I do care about what
>> few rights that we have left as American citizens.
>
> Since when do persons captured on the battlefield need habeas corpus?
>
> Maybe you should read up on what the Geneva Conventions says about
> this.
The Great Writ extends to anyone held by the government
Vince
Colin Campbell
>
>In <r7ik2412sm80ssnco...@4ax.com>, on 05/13/2008
> at 07:06 PM, Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove
>underscore)> said:
>
>
>
>>On Tue, 13 May 2008 04:37:40 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>><jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>Or in the case of Judith Miller used her imprisonment to cover the
>>>fact that she had been the means by which much of the administration
>>>lies were printed in the semi-prestgious New York Times as if they
>>>were "learned facts" rather than an example of stenographic journalism.
>
>>Who believes anything that appears in the NYT? They are as partisan and
>>ideologically blinded as it is possible to get.
>
>
>Only to right wign asses like campbell.
Sorry. Until I read your post I really did believe that the NYT was
as partisan and ideologically blinded as it is possible to get. Your
example demonstrated that this belief was incorrect.
Colin Campbell
<fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>> There goes your credibility.
>
>What the fuck are you talking about? Although it's OT to this post, the
>US has never been closer to a dictatorship, and if the current corporate
>Coup D'Etat of 2000 continues to de-regulate the stabilizing factors in
>the US economy out of sheer greed, you'll see it happen fairly soon
>because the people will finally step up to bat for themselves and a
>police state will result in order to control them.
You had already lost your credibility - no need to continue to prove
that you are a nutcase.
Vince Brannigan
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 02:19:23 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
> <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>
>
>>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
>>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>>> of the conflict.
>>>
>>> What's the big deal?
>>
>> umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
>
> In your opinion.
>
> And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
> matters is.
>
> Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
> disagree with your opinions of it?
Because their careers depend on following the party line and they don't
have to pay for it
"wow this Mercedes limo is a really great taxi"
etc
CSRT is law , not military
"in the thickets of the law I am a forester"
Attr to Thomas More
Vince
Billzz
news:xEOWj.12319$lj.11699@trnddc01...
I was just passing by and note that US military people have never been
protected by the Geneva Convention. Not the Germans, not the Japanese, nor
the North Koreans, nor the North Vietnamese, nor the Viet Cong, nor whatever
Islamic factions in the Middle East have ever followed the Geneva
Conventions.
I, myself, had a Geneva Convention card, and captured Viet Cong, and offered
them water, and a cigarette (Well, Ho Chi Minth smoked Salems) to get them
on our side. Our USAF FAC was shot down, and he couldn't march, so they
summarily executed him, not in accordance with the Geneva Conventions and no
one said anything.
My only wish is that people who hold the Geneva Convention dear, put a US
flag on their left arm and go into combat, and see how much it protects
them.
David Morgan (MAMS)
<Zomby...@cox.net> wrote in message news:vcrk24hrper5l336q...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 07:27:54 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >
> >> All journalists should be shot on sight. The are the root weevils of
> >> society and should be eradicated without question.
> >Asinine. Without them, it would have taken much less time for America
> >to have become the dictatorship it is today.
> Or quite possibly it would have required the population to "think" for
> themselves.
Ah.... back to journalism, I see.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in message news:6adn24pn4v8a1o2fj...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 03:44:40 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote...
> >
> >> What's the big deal?
> >
> >
> >You were talking about the government using their removal of Habeas
> >Corpus to intern those who speak out against them. I could give a shit
> >less about Sami al-Haj (generally speaking)... but I do care about what
> >few rights that we have left as American citizens.
> Since when do persons captured on the battlefield need habeas corpus?
>
> Maybe you should read up on what the Geneva Conventions says about
> this.
I don't know where the hell you're going with this.
A journalist is normally not considered POW material.
________________________
America's War on Journalists
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/84848/
{EXCERPT} AlterNet, CA Sami al-Haj is a free man today, after having been
imprisoned by the US military for more than six years. His crime: journalism....
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/84848/
War Correspondents/Photo Journalists Discussion/News/Info Exchange Forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/war-correspondents
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redc1c4
actually, no, it doesn't..... but you know that.
stick to what you know, or prove yourself a fool yet again.
redc1c4,
waiting for the whine about the apt naming..... %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
Army Officer's Guide
redc1c4
>
> Colin Campbell wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 May 2008 02:19:23 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
> > <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
> >>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
> >>> of the conflict.
> >>>
> >>> What's the big deal?
> >>
> >> umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
> >
> > In your opinion.
> >
> > And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
> > matters is.
> >
> > Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
> > disagree with your opinions of it?
>
> Because their careers depend on following the party line and they don't
> have to pay for it
>
> "wow this Mercedes limo is a really great taxi"
except, of course, that if they are bullshitting themselves, they will die.
that's a fairly strong incentive for the truth, regardless of career issues.
redc1c4,
too bad colleges aren't the same way, with student evals being blind.... %-)
Paul J. Adam
<billzz...@starband.net> writes
>protected by the Geneva Convention. Not the Germans, not the Japanese, nor
>the North Koreans, nor the North Vietnamese, nor the Viet Cong, nor whatever
>Islamic factions in the Middle East have ever followed the Geneva
>Conventions.
The Germans did better than most on your list, and where they broke the
rules (Malmedy?) the perpetrators found themselves tried, convicted and
jailed. (43 got death sentences, later commuted). Hadn't realised until
I looked for more detail, that Joe McCarthy had jumped to the Germans'
defence...
>
>I, myself, had a Geneva Convention card, and captured Viet Cong, and offered
>them water, and a cigarette (Well, Ho Chi Minth smoked Salems) to get them
>on our side. Our USAF FAC was shot down, and he couldn't march, so they
>summarily executed him, not in accordance with the Geneva Conventions and no
>one said anything.
I've heard that there were enough defections of VC and NVA to the South
that there was a specific program ("Chieu Hoi"?) to manage, debrief and
use them.
How many US personnel - to pick the ones where records will hold up -
voluntarily decided they'd walk north?
Another historical example I know more about; warships pulling men out
of the water. The US and Commonwealth made a valuable practice of
treating U-boat survivors with decency and kindness, which sometimes
made them remarkably talkative: the Japanese cheerfully pulled Allied
sailors out of the sea in order to ceremonially behead them and throw
them back. Which side do you think gained more useful intelligence?
>My only wish is that people who hold the Geneva Convention dear, put a US
>flag on their left arm and go into combat, and see how much it protects
>them.
Went out with a F.Ident 108 and a Union Flag patch. Didn't expect it to
do *me* any good at all.
But if you wanted a safe easy life... why did you volunteer?
--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides
paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com
Eugene Griessel
>Went out with a F.Ident 108 and a Union Flag patch. Didn't expect it to
>do *me* any good at all.
>
>But if you wanted a safe easy life... why did you volunteer?
When I joined the INS Romach I was informed that the crew had made a
pact amongst themselves that should it appear capture was inevitable
they would shoot themselves and any fellow shipmates who were not able
to do so. I was informed, that as a guest on board, the first bullets
would be saved for me and my two fellow South African trainees. And
they were in deadly earnest. They preferred a Massada-like end to
captivity by the Arabs. (so much for my clip-on foreskin and fez I'd
brought along as a survival kit......)
Eugene L Griessel
A day for firm decisions!!!!! Or is it?
Vince Brannigan
> Ponce wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 02:19:23 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
>>> <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
>>>>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>>>>> of the conflict.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the big deal?
>>>> umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
>>> In your opinion.
>>>
>>> And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
>>> matters is.
>>>
>>> Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
>>> disagree with your opinions of it?
>> Because their careers depend on following the party line and they don't
>> have to pay for it
>>
>> "wow this Mercedes limo is a really great taxi"
>
> except, of course, that if they are bullshitting themselves, they will die.
>
> that's a fairly strong incentive for the truth, regardless of career issues.
It depends on what they are bullshitting about
Battleship admirals loved battleships adored battleships wanted
battleships even long after everyone else knew they were a waste of money
Vince
Vince Brannigan
> Ponce wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 03:44:40 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
>>> <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote...
>>>>
>>>>> What's the big deal?
>>>> You were talking about the government using their removal of Habeas
>>>> Corpus to intern those who speak out against them. I could give a shit
>>>> less about Sami al-Haj (generally speaking)... but I do care about what
>>>> few rights that we have left as American citizens.
>>> Since when do persons captured on the battlefield need habeas corpus?
>>>
>>> Maybe you should read up on what the Geneva Conventions says about
>>> this.
>> The Great Writ extends to anyone held by the government
>>
>> Vince
>
> actually, no, it doesn't..... but you know that.
>
> stick to what you know, or prove yourself a fool yet again.
>
> redc1c4,
> waiting for the whine about the apt naming..... %-)
Your ignorance is simply total
"Thus the obnoxious doctrine asserted by the Government in this case,
to the effect that restraints of liberty resulting from military trials
of war criminals are political matters completely outside the arena of
judicial review, has been rejected fully and unquestionably"
Justice Murphy's dissent
in re yamashita
La N
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> "Paul J. Adam" <ne...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Went out with a F.Ident 108 and a Union Flag patch. Didn't expect it to
>>do *me* any good at all.
>>
>>But if you wanted a safe easy life... why did you volunteer?
>
> When I joined the INS Romach I was informed that the crew had made a
> pact amongst themselves that should it appear capture was inevitable
> they would shoot themselves and any fellow shipmates who were not able
> to do so. I was informed, that as a guest on board, the first bullets
> would be saved for me and my two fellow South African trainees. And
> they were in deadly earnest. They preferred a Massada-like end to
> captivity by the Arabs. (so much for my clip-on foreskin and fez I'd
> brought along as a survival kit......)
>
You must have pee'd yourself when you got that news, Eugene.
- nilita
Eugene Griessel
Nope - I was young and foolish and immortal, as the young and foolish
think themselves to be. The chances of capture one put at approaching
zero and the chances of death beyond zero. It's only after a certain
age that one's mortality and fragility begins to impinge...
Eugene L Griessel
It is better to be the object of a noisy demonstration than
a quiet assassination.
gjan...@nospam.net
Campbell you right wign asshole; the Geneva Conventions do not state that
you can declare an undefined war and jail people for decades as enemy
soldiers.
As always, you have never missed a chance to show us that you are a
wannabee and not a real soldier. I expect paid idiots and shills like you
to be gone after november when we throw out all the right wign kooks in
Washington.
In <6adn24pn4v8a1o2fj...@4ax.com>, on 05/14/2008
at 09:03 PM, Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove
Zomby...@cox.net
wrote:
>
>"Richard Casady" <richar...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:484b673a....@news.east.earthlink.net...
>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:05:13 -0700, Colin Campbell
>> <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote:
>>
>>> Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>>>of the conflict.
>>
>> Sounds pretty harsh. Do you kill him first, or bury him alive.
>> Isn't interred usually forever? Not just for the duration?
>>
>
>Heheh. When you dig him up, then where do you put him. I'm wondering if
>they are running out of burial plots at Gitmo.
>
No need, burial at see is always a viable option @ Gitmo.
--
"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Vince Brannigan" <fir...@verizon.net> wrote in message...
> "Thus the obnoxious doctrine asserted by the Government in this case,
> to the effect that restraints of liberty resulting from military trials
> of war criminals are political matters completely outside the arena of
> judicial review, has been rejected fully and unquestionably"
>
> Justice Murphy's dissent
Some people simply don't want to know the truth... it shatters their motivation.
"Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render
the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an
overgrown executive will not long be safe."
"Companions to liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson
David Morgan (MAMS)
<gjan...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:KCUWj.3712$xr1.3241@trndny04...
>
>
> Campbell you right wign asshole; the Geneva Conventions do not state that
> you can declare an undefined war and jail people for decades as enemy
> soldiers.
Correct... one can not have a "war" on an undefined enemy with the alleged
objective being the installation of "democracy". That's a no-brainer, especially
when the US Congress never voted to officially declare any sort of "war".
You're also forgetting that the current government Junta (aka: The Corporate
Coup D'Etat of 2000) has changed the rules by changing the terminology
used to define POWs, thus changing the applicable status of the G.C..
WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
The loss of Habeas Corpus and extended police powers for local and state
level, has given the US government and local authorities the (at least) new
'permission' to incarcerate without release, charge or trial, anyone in America
who dissatisfies the arresting authority.
America now has more people in jail than ANY other nation in the WORLD,
both by way of overall percentages, as well as Per Capita ratio. Although
the average 'Joe' can't see this as he/she is brainwashed by the misdirection
and dis-information coming for the mainstream media by way of the leaders
of the nation and it's local governments, it's never the less a fact that the
USA is bordering on a totalitarian police state.
Here's what the US Department of Justice has to say for 2007....
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/p06.htm
Here is last years DoJ spreadsheet on current US incarcerations....
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p06.pdf
The stats are pretty easy to find on the net - here's a couple for ya'....
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/12/05/usdom17491.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080301192147AA4bxru
Below is February's A.P. wire on Prison Population assessment....
________________________________________
Record Number of Americans in Prison
By DAVID CRARY, AP
Posted: 2008-02-28 22:20:03
Filed Under: Nation News
NEW YORK - For the first time in U.S. history, more than one
of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report
documenting America's rank as the world's No. 1 incarcerator.
It urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer
low-risk offenders behind bars.
Using state-by-state data, the report says 2,319,258 Americans
were in jail or prison at the start of 2008 — one out of every 99.1
adults. Whether per capita or in raw numbers, it's more than
any other nation.
The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States,
said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last
year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of
increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher
education spending, the report said.
The steadily growing inmate population "is saddling cash-strapped
states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a
clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime," the report said.
Susan Urahn, managing director of the Pew Center on the States,
said budget woes are pressuring many states to consider new,
cost-saving corrections policies that might have been shunned
in the recent past for fear of appearing soft on crime.
"We're seeing more and more states being creative because of
tight budgets," she said in an interview. "They want to be tough
on crime. They want to be a law-and-order state. But they also
want to save money, and they want to be effective."
The report cited Kansas and Texas as states that have acted
decisively to slow the growth of their inmate population. They
are making greater use of community supervision for low-risk
offenders and employing sanctions other than reimprisonment
for offenders who commit technical violations of parole and
probation rules.
"The new approach, born of bipartisan leadership, is allowing
the two states to ensure they have enough prison beds for
violent offenders while helping less dangerous lawbreakers
become productive, taxpaying citizens," the report said.
While many state governments have shown bipartisan interest
in curbing prison growth, there also are persistent calls to proceed
cautiously.
"We need to be smarter," said David Muhlhausen, a criminal
justice expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation. "We're
not incarcerating all the people who commit serious crimes.
But we're also probably incarcerating people who don't need to be."
According to the report, the inmate population increased last year
in 36 states and the federal prison system.
The largest percentage increase — 12 percent — was in Kentucky,
where Gov. Steve Beshear highlighted the cost of corrections in
his budget speech last month. He noted that the state's crime rate
had increased only about 3 percent in the past 30 years, while the
state's inmate population has increased by 600 percent.
The report was compiled by the Pew Center's Public Safety
Performance Project, which is working with 13 states on
developing programs to divert offenders from prison without
jeopardizing public safety.
"Getting tough on criminals has gotten tough on taxpayers," said the
project's director, Adam Gelb.
According to the report, the average annual cost per prisoner was
$23,876, with Rhode Island spending the most ($44,860) and
Louisiana the least ($13,009). It said California — which faces
a $16 billion budget shortfall — spent $8.8 billion on corrections
last year, while Texas, which has slightly more inmates, was a
distant second with spending of $3.3 billion.
On average, states spend 6.8 percent of their general fund dollars
on corrections, the report said. Oregon had the highest spending
rate, at 10.9 percent; Alabama the lowest at 2.6 percent.
Four states -Vermont, Michigan, Oregon and Connecticut - now
spend more on corrections than they do on higher education, the
report said.
"These sad facts reflect a very distorted set of national priorities,"
said Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, referring
to the full report. "Perhaps, if we adequately invested in our children
and in education, kids who now grow up to be criminals could
become productive workers and taxpayers."
The report said prison growth and higher incarceration rates do
not reflect an increase in the nation's overall population. Instead,
it said, more people are behind bars mainly because of tough
sentencing measures, such as "three-strikes" laws, that result
in longer prison stays.
"For some groups, the incarceration numbers are especially startling,"
the report said. "While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34
is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in
nine."
The racial disparity for women also is stark. One of every 355 white
women aged 35 to 39 is behind bars, compared with one of every
100 black women in that age group.
The nationwide figures, as of Jan. 1, include 1,596,127 people in
state and federal prisons and 723,131 in local jails. That's out of
almost 230 million American adults.
The report said the United States incarcerates more people than
any other nation, far ahead of more populous China with 1.5 million
people behind bars. It said the U.S. also is the leader in inmates per
capita (750 per 100,000 people), ahead of Russia (628 per 100,000)
and other former Soviet bloc nations which round out the Top 10.
The U.S. also is among the world leaders in capital punishment.
According to Amnesty International, its 53 executions in 2006 were
exceeded only by China, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq and Sudan.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.
2008-02-28 16:39:17
"America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and
disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I
wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that
the government doesn't want us to know."
-- Gore Vidal
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> I was just passing by and note that US military people have never been
> protected by the Geneva Convention. Not the Germans, not the Japanese, nor
> the North Koreans, nor the North Vietnamese, nor the Viet Cong, nor whatever
> Islamic factions in the Middle East have ever followed the Geneva
> Conventions.
We can say a lot about the Nazis but the German military did respect
the Geneva Convention with respect to the British and Americans. The
"Coldiz" and "Great Escape" film stories would be very different
otherwise. An ealier version was used in WW2.
The USSR did not respect the Geneva Convention and was punished by
getting its soldiers killed.
Andrew Swallow
Billzz
news:qMmdnfNJra8I47HV...@bt.com...
> Billzz wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>
>> I was just passing by and note that US military people have never been
>> protected by the Geneva Convention. Not the Germans, not the Japanese,
>> nor the North Koreans, nor the North Vietnamese, nor the Viet Cong, nor
>> whatever Islamic factions in the Middle East have ever followed the
>> Geneva Conventions.
>
> We can say a lot about the Nazis but the German military did respect
> the Geneva Convention with respect to the British and Americans. The
> "Coldiz" and "Great Escape" film stories would be very different
> otherwise. An ealier version was used in WW2.
It's a good thing you were not there and did not "look" Jewish.
http://www.thirteen.org/pressroom/release.php?get=29
Jack Linthicum
> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
Well, 50 of the 73 that got out in that great escape were shot by the
Gestapo. IIRC the original "real" escapers were all Sergeants, and I
thought they were all British.
There was a manual for security risks like myself during the period
after the Korean War that had their story in it.
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
>
Murderers and traitors the USA, as a sovereign state, had the right
to kill without trial.
Andrew Swallow
Vincent Brannigan
William Black
Well no.
The US killed remarkably few Muslim Britons for no very good reason but
they've locked quite a few up for being 'innocent but Muslim'.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
William Black
> We can say a lot about the Nazis but the German military did respect
> the Geneva Convention with respect to the British and Americans. The
> "Coldiz" and "Great Escape" film stories would be very different
> otherwise. An ealier version was used in WW2.
I doubt the movie of 'The Great Escape' would have been the same if the
Germans had respected the conventions, and if you looked Jewish (or were
considered a Commando) you didn't get treated terribly well either.
> The USSR did not respect the Geneva Convention and was punished by
> getting its soldiers killed.
Saying the Germans murdered large numbers of Soviet soldiers because the
USSR wasn't a signatory is a hell of a stretch.
Vincent Brannigan
only in comic books
Common artiicle 3
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including
members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed '
hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause,
shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse
distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or
wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any
time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned
persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds,
mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and
degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without
previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording
all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by
civilized peoples.
Vince
Christopher Manteuffel
wrote:
> Well, 50 of the 73 that got out in that great escape were shot by the
> Gestapo.
76 escaped. 3 got all the way back to Britain. 50 of the 73 recaptured
were shot. Unlike in the movie, they weren't all brought together, but
killed in ones and twos by the Gestapo.
>IIRC the original "real" escapers were all Sergeants, and I
> thought they were all British.
Not all British (Polish, Norwegian, Australian, Canadian, Dutch,
etc.) just not American. All of the Americans had been moved to
another camp- some of them had worked on the tunnels but were moved to
another compound a few weeks before the moon was right.
As with spies, language mastery was a key for escapers. That meant
that successful escapes by native English speakers was rare. It
happened (people committed to escaping had lots of free time on their
hands to try and master a language), but it was rare.
And I think that Stalag Luft III was an officer's camp, not an
enlisted men camp. There is some distinction, IIRC, in how the
prisoners are to be treated under the GC.
Chris Manteuffel
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
Located a couple of possibilities both titled "The Sergeant Escapers".
Andrew Swallow
> Andrew Swallow wrote:
>> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>>
>>> WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
>>>
>> Murderers and traitors the USA, as a sovereign state, had the right
>> to kill without trial.
>>
>> Andrew Swallow
>
>
>
> only in comic books
> Common artiicle 3
>
> (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members
> of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de
> combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in
Enemy combatants are taking part in hostilities and have not laid down
their arms, so the rest of Common article 3 does not apply.
It may apply after they have surrended.
Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
> "Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:qMmdnfNJra8I47HV...@bt.com...
>
>> The USSR did not respect the Geneva Convention and was punished by
>> getting its soldiers killed.
>
> Saying the Germans murdered large numbers of Soviet soldiers because the
> USSR wasn't a signatory is a hell of a stretch.
>
I said the USSR did not repect the Geneva Convention i.e. the Russians
killed German POWS.
Andrew Swallow
William Black
or murder them later in prison camps, neither were captured Nazi Party
members murdered as a matter of course as German territories were occupied.
Of course many died because of overwork, but that was because the Russians
were, as a matter of policy, a brutal and unfeeling bunch rather than a
murderous gang.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swal...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:K_CdnXaDpYR...@bt.com...
>
> > William Black wrote:
> >>news:qMmdnfNJra8I47HV...@bt.com...
> > [snip]
>
> >>> The USSR did not respect the Geneva Convention and was punished by
> >>> getting its soldiers killed.
>
> >> Saying the Germans murdered large numbers of Soviet soldiers because the
> >> USSR wasn't a signatory is a hell of a stretch.
>
> > I said the USSR did not repect the Geneva Convention i.e. the Russians
> > killed German POWS.
>
> Unlike the Germans they did not just shoot captured combatants out of hand
> or murder them later in prison camps, neither were captured Nazi Party
> members murdered as a matter of course as German territories were occupied.
>
> Of course many died because of overwork, but that was because the Russians
> were, as a matter of policy, a brutal and unfeeling bunch rather than a
> murderous gang.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.
"You live to work this ship"
Billzz
The Russians even killed their own returning POWs. I should have a cite for
that but it's lost in my wargaming references from more than twenty years
ago.
As another aside when we modeled replacements in a computer wargame, the
allies used individual and unit replacements, the proposed Soviet force
units went to the front and never came back, individuals going to a
"decimation pool." The Soviets fed new units forward, no recycling. The
intelligence guys gave us the scenario. How true to the truth that would be
I have no idea. But if you want to know figures on attrition, consumption,
and length of time, then considering that the enemy will do your
"worst-case" scenario will give safe-sided figures.
Another aside, as I have a little time. When modeling the Falklands, as a
beta test, i.e. "reverse engineering, the "breakpoint threshold" -the
amount of casualties a unit would take before retreating- looked like 10%
for the Argentines (they would retreat with 10% casualties) and 90% for the
UK. This does not mean that the number was correct, only that setting that
number caused movement, in the computer, that approximated history.
Vincent Brannigan
> Vincent Brannigan wrote:
>> Andrew Swallow wrote:
>>> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
>>>>
>>> Murderers and traitors the USA, as a sovereign state, had the right
>>> to kill without trial.
>>>
>>> Andrew Swallow
>>
>>
>>
>> only in comic books
>> Common artiicle 3
>>
>> (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including
>> members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed
>> ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause,
>> shall in
>
> Enemy combatants are taking part in hostilities and have not laid down
> their arms, so the rest of Common article 3 does not apply.
>
> It may apply after they have surrended.
nonsense
you described "murderers and traitors"
omitting traitors, which is merely a municipal crime
you are suggesting that there is a group which the government may
declare that they will kill on sight without trial merely on the say so
of the leader. in other words the the leader points and they follow
no, that is not the law.
that was Hitler
Can you shoot at people currently actively engaged in belligerent acts
sure. But it requires an "act" RIGHT NOW
you have to be "taking an active part"
Only members of armed forces can be attacked based on their status
If you are attacking them based on that status then you have to make
them POWs when they surrender
you can try them for war crimes, but only after a proper tribunal
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in message...
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
> > WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
> Murderers and traitors the USA, as a sovereign state, had the right
> to kill without trial.
You have a great misunderstanding of criminal justice and guilt, as well
as what rights you have to kill another human being.
You also, apparently can't even use a dictionary.... sorry about that.
In case you've forgotten, the vast majority of illegally 'rendered,' so-called
"detainees" that initially filled Guantanamo, were gathered up by Afghan
bounty hunters in exchange for cash offered by the US Military and the
CIA. Most of them were farmers and children, turned in to the American
authorities solely for the cash reward.
If caught on "the battlefield", these people are POWs. But since there
IS NO honestly 'declared' war, there can be no POWs. It is also illegal
to remove these POWs from the nation in which combat is occurring.
If they were brought to the USA, they would have had rights.... hence the
trips to Guantanamo and the further illegal 'rendition' of those captured
back to other foreign nations from which the torture could be carried out.
There is no such thing as a "terrorist" until AFTER an act of terrorism
has been committed, and/or the guilty party claims responsibility or there
is sufficient evidence to accuse a specific person or party.
One can NOT have a "war" against a modus-operendi, a way of doing
things, or an ideal. There MUST be a specific and definable enemy;
a specific and definable target (forcing 'democracy' on unwilling
recipients does not count); and a distinct objective to achieve with
a battle plan for achieving that objective, ending the conflict, and
withdrawing in an organized fashion.
As to the rapid loss of American freedoms, it appears that you are
slightly uninformed (don't have a clue) or choose to remain voluntarily
ignorant of the changes taking place around you.
As to Journalists in the battlefield.... well, it appears that you don't
have much information about their presence there, either. (And
the "embedded" [spoon-fed and censored] journalists don't count).
As to fighting a phony "war" for the sake of the Corporate Coup D'Etat
of 2000 in order to secure for them the natural resources of a foreign
nation without their express permission (opium and oil included)... well,
sorry that you happen to either misunderstand or choose to ignore that
intended goal as well.
But... it's the USA that _I'm_ concerned with.
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be
in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
-- James Madison
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote...
> Enemy combatants are taking part in hostilities and have not laid down
> their arms, so the rest of Common article 3 does not apply.
Bzzzzzzzzt.... next personal interpretation, please.
"No form of government, once in power, can be trusted to limit
its own ambition, to extend freedom and to wither away. This
means that it is up to the citizenry, those outside of power, to
engage in permanent combat with the state, short of violent,
escalatory revolution, but beyond the gentility of the ballot-box,
to insure justice, freedom and well being."
-- Howard Zinn
William Black
"Billzz" <billzz...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:ae39a$482ca038$9440b19b$20...@STARBAND.NET...
> The Russians even killed their own returning POWs. I should have a cite
> for that but it's lost in my wargaming references from more than twenty
> years ago.
There are plenty of people around who say that the Don Cossaks needed
killing...
> As another aside when we modeled replacements in a computer wargame, the
> allies used individual and unit replacements, the proposed Soviet force
> units went to the front and never came back, individuals going to a
> "decimation pool." The Soviets fed new units forward, no recycling. The
> intelligence guys gave us the scenario. How true to the truth that would
> be I have no idea.
They would never have developed the large elite units they did develop if
they'd done that.
Eugene Griessel
>>IIRC the original "real" escapers were all Sergeants, and I
>> thought they were all British.
>
>Not all British (Polish, Norwegian, Australian, Canadian, Dutch,
>etc.) just not American. All of the Americans had been moved to
>another camp- some of them had worked on the tunnels but were moved to
>another compound a few weeks before the moon was right.
Errmmm. <Trumpet>Let's not forget it was organised by a South African
born man - and he was not the only South African in the team</Trumpet>
Eugene L Griessel
Eliminate government waste no matter how much it costs.
Eugene Griessel
>Well, 50 of the 73 that got out in that great escape were shot by the
>Gestapo. IIRC the original "real" escapers were all Sergeants, and I
>thought they were all British.
Just looking through the list of those shot - all officers. Candians,
New Zealanders, Australians, South Africans, Poles, Lithuanians,
Belgians, French, Greeks, Czechoslovaks, Norwegians and of course
Brits.
Eugene L Griessel
Programming done here:
FAST SMALL CHEAP
Pick any two.
Wiley Post
wrote:
>Colin Campbell wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 02:19:23 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
>> <fir...@firelaw.us> wrote:
>>>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
>>>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
>>>> of the conflict.
>>>>
>>>> What's the big deal?
>>>
>>
>> In your opinion.
>>
>> And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
>> matters is.
>>
>> Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
>> disagree with your opinions of it?
>
>Because their careers depend on following the party line and they don't
>have to pay for it
So, according to your opinion, they risk their lives every day crewing the
Osprey because are so thoroughly controlled by their bosses that they cannot
think of anything but making them happy.
>"wow this Mercedes limo is a really great taxi"
"wow this attorney is a really lousy psychologist"
>"in the thickets of the law I am a forester"
>Attr to Thomas More
"in the fullness of time, you'll still be wrong"
Attr to me
zzbu...@netscape.net
> In <wHOWj.12369$lj.5342@trnddc01>, Vince Brannigan <fire...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Colin Campbell wrote:
> >> On Wed, 14 May 2008 02:19:23 GMT, Vincent Brannigan
> >> <fire...@firelaw.us> wrote:
> >>>> It sounds like he was accompanying Taliban/AQ on operations and was
> >>>> captured. Under International law he can be interred for the duration
> >>>> of the conflict.
>
> >>>> What's the big deal?
>
> >>> umm the CSRT is also a kangaroo court
>
> >> In your opinion.
>
> >> And we all know just how extensive you understanding of military
> >> matters is.
>
> >> Can you explain why the people who operate and maintain the V-22
> >> disagree with your opinions of it?
>
> >Because their careers depend on following the party line and they don't
> >have to pay for it
>
> So, according to your opinion, they risk their lives every day crewing the
> Osprey because are so thoroughly controlled by their bosses that they cannot
> think of anything but making them happy.
>
> >"wow this Mercedes limo is a really great taxi"
>
> "wow this attorney is a really lousy psychologist"
Well, the crank's probably not even an attorney.
Since we invented robots for technology idiots like attornies,
fresh water for technology idiots like the marines,
GPS for technology idiots like the idiot neo-cons,
and cruise missiles for technology idiots like the air force.
>
> >"in the thickets of the law I am a forester"
> >Attr to Thomas More
>
> "in the fullness of time, you'll still be wrong"
> Attr to me- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Andrew Swallow
> Andrew Swallow wrote:
>> Vincent Brannigan wrote:
>>> Andrew Swallow wrote:
>>>> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WTF was an "enemy combatant" or a "detainee" _before_ 911 ??!??
>>>>>
>>>> Murderers and traitors the USA, as a sovereign state, had the right
>>>> to kill without trial.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Swallow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> only in comic books
>>> Common artiicle 3
>>>
>>> (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including
>>> members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those
>>> placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any
>>> other cause, shall in
>>
>> Enemy combatants are taking part in hostilities and have not laid down
>> their arms, so the rest of Common article 3 does not apply.
>>
>> It may apply after they have surrended.
>
> nonsense
> you described "murderers and traitors"
>
> omitting traitors, which is merely a municipal crime
Traitors may cover the actual 9/11 people since they were inside the
USA.
>
> you are suggesting that there is a group which the government may
> declare that they will kill on sight without trial merely on the say so
> of the leader. in other words the the leader points and they follow
> no, that is not the law.
> that was Hitler
>
The traditional power of kings was enormous. King John was not
happy to sign Magna Carta, which required trials. The US
Constitution had clauses inserted to limit the powers of the
president. Any limitations in the US Constitution are self
imposed rather than international law and only apply within
the jurisdiction of the USA Federal Government.
> Can you shoot at people currently actively engaged in belligerent acts
> sure. But it requires an "act" RIGHT NOW
> you have to be "taking an active part"
>
>
> Only members of armed forces can be attacked based on their status
>
That comes down to whether Al Qaeda count as an armed force. Osama
bin Laden did actually declare war/jihad against the USA.
> If you are attacking them based on that status then you have to make
> them POWs when they surrender
>
Only if they meet the criteria in Article 4 of the Geneva Convention.
IMHO The 9/11 suicide teams did not.
The fighters openly carrying guns and wearing say green headdresses
in Iraq and Afghanistan may comply with Article 4.2
> you can try them for war crimes, but only after a proper tribunal
>
If you accept their surrender then they are entitled to a trial.
Article 43.2 of Protocol 1 to the Geneva Convention applies.
" 2. Members of the armed forces of a Party to a conflict
(other than medical personnel and chaplains covered by
Article 33 of the Third Convention) are combatants, that
is to say, they have the right to participate directly in hostilities.
"
<http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287a42141256739003e636b/f6c8b9fee14a77fdc125641e0052b079>
Non-combatants who kill are probably murderers.
(Non ratification of this treaty by the USA is causing problems.)