Re: Is there an iOS app similar to the Android WiFi Analyzer app?

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>>>> I can't outfit my iPad to do anything close to what my Android does
>>>> already.
>>>
>>> that's because you're stupid.
>>
>> Well then, tell us where iOS graphical debuggers are on the Apple App Store.
>
> what's stopping you from writing such an app that does exactly what you
> want it to do?
>
> other than the fact that you're incapable of leaning how, which just
> means you would need to hire people who can.

We see nospam following the predictable path in increasing desperation...

1. First claim the imaginary functionality exists on the Apple App Store.
2. When that fails, say everyone else made Apple remove the functionality.
3. When that fails, say it's not Apple's fault - it's the developers' fault.
4. When that fails, say you should write all the app functionality yourself.
5. When that fails, accuse everyone telling the truth of being stupid.
6. What's coming up is the classic "ftfy" kindergarten rant from nospam.

All this because nospam _hates_ *to own an iPhone is to own a crippled OS*.

[Robin Goodfellow]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked
>> How do you debug the router (particularly with multiple routers around)?
>>
>> With Android you can - easily - get a graph of all signals on all channels
>> (whether or not they're hidden or open or locked) but with iOS - you can't.
>
> But, but, but, a <regular> <ordinary> <typical> <average> <conventional>
> <unremarkable> iPhone user would never in a million years ever have to
> do any debugging, optimization, or configuration of routers. A Mac user
> might need to do this so these apps are still available on MacOS.
>
> It's only those communist, open-source promoting, anti-Trump,
> mask-promoting, liberal do-gooders that would use an Android device to
> do anything as arcane as going into those complicated settings on
> routers to do any debugging, optimization, or network configuration.
>
> Seriously, the idea that just because a specific app is only needed by a
> couple of million users, instead of 500 million users, means that it
> should not be available, is ludicrous.
>
> I wonder if our favorite trolls comprehend that they are implying that
> Android users are <extraordinary> <exceptional> <remarkable> when they
> insist that a useful technical app need not be available on iOS because
> an "ordinary" user would not use it.

I think the only reason people like nospam are arguing that nobody needs any
wifi or cellular graphical debugging tools is that iOS is the _only_
consumer platform that completely lacks graphical radio debugging tools.

*People like nospam _hate_ that to own an iPhone is to own a crippled OS.*

> Some Android-only capabilities that have legitimate uses _could_ be used
> for nefarious purposes, like using GPS spoofing to view content not
> available in your location. But I can't see how a WiFi analyzer would
> fall into that category.

What's nice on Android is the ability to spoof your GPS location (which can
move as you set it to) via commonly available free ad free FOSS apps such as
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps

In Android settings you simply set the GPS location to that fake app by
default, which you can instantly pause when you really need correct GPS.

Again, this functionality is _impossible_ to do with iOS, yet again proving
what we knew all along which is that *to own iOS is to own a crippled OS*.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
> comparing that device to a generic android wifi scanning app is crazy.
> they're two wildly different tools.

I run all the spectrum analysis I want, for free, using my own router's AP.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/204950584-airMAX-Using-airView-to-Find-the-Best-Channel

Note that these look at _everything_ within the selected Wi-Fi spectrum.
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/202812440/spectrum_analyzer_1.png
https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/202755414/spectrum_analyzer_2.png

All for free (if you already have the device used as your router's AP).
https://community.ui.com/questions/Holy-smokes-Spectrum-Analyzer/6a205f6f-056b-431b-8637-327bf64c3e52?page=5

>> You just have to spend the $649.97 on the device. Kind of dumb
>> considering all the Wi-Fi radios are already present in the phone.
>
> if the wifi radios are already present in the phone, then why does
> their android app also need their device?

This particular device appears to scan the _entire_ spectrum.

> if the wifi radios are already present in mac and windows pcs, why do
> their mac and windows apps also need their device?

This particular device appears to scan the _entire_ spectrum.

> the answer is because their app with their device is *far* more capable
> than anything a phone or laptop can possibly do by itself.

Once in a while, particularly when you're not defending the lack of basic
functionality on iOS to the death, you say what is actually correct.

> the comparison is ludicrous.

This particular device appears to scan the _entire_ spectrum, where I get
that exact same functionality (and more) for free with my router's AP.

https://community.ui.com/questions/Collection-of-2-4GHz-airView-Spectrum-Analyzer-charts-for-comparitive-purposes/de208230-13b7-42ad-a028-1ceac06ceb75

[nospam]

In article <sgbpb2$t97$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow

<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>
> I run all the spectrum analysis I want, for free, using my own router's AP.

that's a separate piece of hardware, which is not free.

but at least you admit that android can't do what you falsely claimed
it could.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

>> I run all the spectrum analysis I want, for free, using my own router's AP.
>
> that's a separate piece of hardware, which is not free.
>
> but at least you admit that android can't do what you falsely claimed
> it could.

In your desperation to excuse the fact that iOS is the _only_ platform that
has zero wifi graphical debugging tools, you're now fabricating that I said
that Android has a full spectrum analysis (which I never even once said).

*You're so desperate, that this is essentially your "ftfy" attempt.*

It means you're almost at the end of your methods to excuse that you hate
iOS not having any of the basic functionality all other platforms have.

We see nospam following the predictable path in increasing desperation...

1. First claim the imaginary functionality exists on the Apple App Store.
2. When that fails, say everyone else made Apple remove the functionality.
3. When that fails, say it's not Apple's fault - it's the developers' fault.
4. When that fails, say you should write all the app functionality yourself.
5. When that fails, accuse everyone telling the truth of being stupid.
6. What's coming up is the classic "ftfy" kindergarten rant from nospam.

All this because nospam _hates_ iOS doesn't have even basic functionality.

[Robin Goodfellow]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked
>>>> How do you debug the router (particularly with multiple routers around)?
>>>

>>> unless you are a router manufacturer, there is absolutely no need to
>>> 'debug a router'.
>>
>> The fact remains no other operating system other than iOS lacks these tools.
>
> Well "debug" is the wrong word.

You have a point that the verb we use could change depending on the purpose.

As an example, you might simply be curious what Wi-Fi networks are in the
area and at what strength and how they're changing over time, particularly
as you move among obstacles or up and down floors within any given building.

> What you use those tools for is to
> configure routers, especially when you have multiple routers that cover
> the overlapping areas and have performance issues because of
> interference.

Despite people like nospam claiming that iOS owners don't need no stinking
graphical wifi analysis tools, there are _many_ reasons to use wi-fi
graphical analysis tools (which is why they exist on all other platforms).
https://www.google.com/search?q=graphical+wifi+debugging+tools+windows

> It's especially useful in houses where you have multiple
> high-bandwith Wi-Fi devices like 4K TVs. Personally I ran Cat 6 in the
> attics to the TVs from the modem and router, but a lot of people depend
> on Wi-Fi for everything.

This article says they're especially useful for determining router range.
https://www.netspotapp.com/wifi-analyzer/best-wifi-analyzer-windows-apps.html

I doubt nospam can understand what they said, but for the others, they said
"Even though your router is advertised to have a certain range, you can't
expect the range to be the same in every direction.

This presents a problem: How can you know where's the best place to install
your router if the signal distribution isn't even? The answer is simple: You
use a WiFi analyzer tool"

*Of all the consumer operating systems, only iOS is crippled this way.*

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
> modern routers do that automatically, no tools required, particularly
> mesh, which are designed specifically for that scenario.

Tell us nospam, how do you know where best to position your router?

> there is *no* need to do that manually, nor will the average person
> even know what to do.

How again does the router know the best position to be in your house?

[sms]

You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
router. I have a Wi-FI router in an upstairs closet with my cable modem,
but the signal was not strong enough downstairs. I ended up running some
CAT 6 cable through the upstairs attic then through the downstairs attic
to second Wi-Fi router that serves downstairs. Of course I'm in Silicon
Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
this themselves.

[nospam]

In article <sgdjnl$ejl$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
> router.

nope. to determine that, one only needs to notice that there's a weak
signal at one end of the house. no app required.

should that happen, simply get a second router and configure both so
that devices can roam between them (very easy, again, no app needed).

better yet, use a mesh unit which will do everything *for* you, some of
which can dynamically adjust the signal based on current demands, such
as if everyone is in one room at the same time and the other end of the
house is empty.

> Of course I'm in Silicon
> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
> this themselves.

maybe you can ask one of them to help you, given that you have
absolutely no idea what you're doing.

[Robin Goodfellow]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked

>>> there is *no* need to do that manually, nor will the average person
>>> even know what to do.
>>
>> How again does the router know the best position to be in your house?
>
> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
> router. I have a Wi-FI router in an upstairs closet with my cable modem,
> but the signal was not strong enough downstairs. I ended up running some
> CAT 6 cable through the upstairs attic then through the downstairs attic
> to second Wi-Fi router that serves downstairs. Of course I'm in Silicon
> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
> this themselves.

Of course the graphical wifi debugging apps are useful, as are all the
utilities that Android has which iOS lacks because it's a toy OS after all.

They wouldn't exist on _all_ other platforms if they weren't useful to many!
What's interesting is that _only_ iOS lacks these graphical debugging utils.

*It's yet more evidence that to own an iPhone is to own a crippled phone.*

[sms]

On 8/28/2021 8:50 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> They wouldn't exist on _all_ other platforms if they weren't useful to many!
> What's interesting is that _only_ iOS lacks these graphical debugging utils.

Yeah, our favorite trolls can insist that such apps are not needed, but
the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
Windows, so clearly people are using them. But I guess that no Android,
Linux, MacOS, or Windows users fall into the "ordinary user" category, LOL.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

>> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
>> router.
>
> nope. to determine that, one only needs to notice that there's a weak
> signal at one end of the house. no app required.

Why are you so desperate to defend what is obvious to all but you cultists?

> should that happen, simply get a second router and configure both so
> that devices can roam between them (very easy, again, no app needed).

Everything you say in your desperation to defend Apple at all costs just
sounds silly when you realize you'll say ANYTHING to defend Apple's flaws.

> better yet, use a mesh unit which will do everything *for* you, some of
> which can dynamically adjust the signal based on current demands, such
> as if everyone is in one room at the same time and the other end of the
> house is empty.

You are literally suggesting buying MORE DEVICES because your beloved iPhone
can't do even the simplest of the most basic of wifi debugging tasks.

This is the Apple way.
1. Apple ships a device that is crippled.
2. So that the customer has to buy back what Apple didn't supply.
3. Meanwhile, _every_ operating system except iOS has this capability.

>> Of course I'm in Silicon
>> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
>> this themselves.
>
> maybe you can ask one of them to help you, given that you have
> absolutely no idea what you're doing.

As you get increasingly desperate to defend the crippled iOS operating
system, you resort to more and more childish responses, given you've run out
of your typical ploys long ago.

We see nospam following the predictable path in increasing desperation...

1. First claim that you told the user how to do it (and yet that's a lie).
2. When that fails, claim the imaginary functionality exists on the Apple
App Store.
3. When that fails, say everyone else made Apple remove the functionality.
4. When that fails, say it's not Apple's fault - it's the developers' fault.
5. When that fails, say you should write all the app functionality yourself.
6. When that fails, accuse everyone telling the truth of being stupid.
7. What's coming up are the classic "ftfy" & ad hominem rants from nospam.

All this because nospam _hates_ *to own an iPhone is to own a crippled OS*.

[sms]

On 8/28/2021 8:58 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> You are literally suggesting buying MORE DEVICES because your beloved iPhone
> can't do even the simplest of the most basic of wifi debugging tasks.

nospam is wrong of course™.

Well of course you could take the approach of wildly adding more and
more wireless routers, without knowing where the dead spots actually are
or where there is interference from nearby wireless routers, but that
would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do, so it's not surprising that
nospam would think that this is a good idea.

It's like a car mechanic who wildly replaces components because they
lack the skill or equipment to properly diagnose a problem, i.e. "let's
try replacing your $1500 computer, that might fix the problem, oh, that
didn't work, maybe it's the $2000 catalytic converter, oh that didn't
work, maybe it's this wire that fell off the oxygen sensor, I'll just
push it back on, all fixed, you owe me $3500 for parts and $2000 for labor."

[nospam]

In article <sgdmde$132$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
> Windows, so clearly people are using them.

availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.

the reality is that most people do not have any issues with using only
one router unless they have an unusually large home, in which case they
get a second router and link the two (very easy) or a mesh unit that
does everything automatically (even easier).

no need for any apps or troubleshooting.

not only that, but the routers can automatically adjust based on
current conditions, whereas a human would constantly need to be
monitoring it, something they're not going to do.

[nospam]

In article <sgdo5k$dh2$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Well of course you could take the approach of wildly adding more and
> more wireless routers, without knowing where the dead spots actually are
> or where there is interference from nearby wireless routers, but that
> would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do, so it's not surprising that
> nospam would think that this is a good idea.

i never suggested 'wildly adding more and more routers without knowing
where the dead spots actually are'.

stop lying and trolling.

what i said was if there's a dead spot, simply add a router for
additional coverage and link the two. done.

a mesh unit is an even better choice but not required.

you have no clue what you're talking about and you're not fooling
anyone.

>
> It's like a car mechanic who wildly replaces components because they
> lack the skill or equipment to properly diagnose a problem, i.e. "let's
> try replacing your $1500 computer, that might fix the problem, oh, that
> didn't work, maybe it's the $2000 catalytic converter, oh that didn't
> work, maybe it's this wire that fell off the oxygen sensor, I'll just
> push it back on, all fixed, you owe me $3500 for parts and $2000 for labor."

nope.

if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
it properly fixed.

[Robin Goodfellow]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked

> Yeah, our favorite trolls can insist that such apps are not needed, but
> the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
> Windows, so clearly people are using them. But I guess that no Android,
> Linux, MacOS, or Windows users fall into the "ordinary user" category, LOL.

What's unknown is _why Apple would remove the apps from the App Store_
when Apple allows the very same graphical wi-fi debugging apps for macOS.

It's only iOS that doesn't have utilities every other operating system has.

What iOS has though are games. Games. Games games games.
It's one more indicator that iOS is only a toy operating system for kids.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
> it properly fixed.

Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

Many useful utilities are on all platforms _except_ the iOS platform.
Graphical cellular signal debuggers are yet another example not on iOS.

*The toy iOS isn't actually useful for _anything_ other than playing games.*

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

> availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.

In your desperation to make excuses for why iOS is crippled you make an
argument that goes against all your other arguments as to why you love iOS.

> the reality is that most people do not have any issues with using only
> one router unless they have an unusually large home, in which case they
> get a second router and link the two (very easy) or a mesh unit that

> does everything automatically (even easier).'

The reality is you'll stop at nothing to defend a crippled iOS to the death.

> no need for any apps or troubleshooting.

Of course you'd say that... because you know the iPhone has a crippled OS.

> not only that, but the routers can automatically adjust based on
> current conditions, whereas a human would constantly need to be
> monitoring it, something they're not going to do.

How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?

[nospam]

In article <sgdrri$19ac$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow

<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

false.

there are *numerous* obd adapters and obd apps on ios.

i have been using the adapters and apps for more than a decade and have
tried or own just about all of them.

they work exceptionally well, even in the background without needing to
launch an app each time, something not possible on android.

i've also written an ios app that used an obd adapter and am *very*
familiar with how it all works.

you are as usual, full of shit.

[nospam]

In article <sgds10$1c02$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow

<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>
> How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?

it tells you.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

>> How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?
>
> it tells you.

You have no shame.

You're no different than what Apple does by Apple's incessant public lies.
(Apple was fined and Apple paid over a billion dollars for lies last year)

You'll make up anything to defend the crippled lack of functionality of iOS.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

>> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
>> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.
>
> false.
>
> there are *numerous* obd adapters and obd apps on ios.

You have no shame.

Just like Apple's very public incessant lies (for which Apple paid out over
a billion dollars last year alone), you'll distort everything sans shame.

What neither you nor Apple can change, even with both your incessant lies
(neither you nor Apple has any shame when it comes to brazen public lies),
is the fact that the graphical wifi debuggers exist on all consumer
operating systems _except_ on iOS.

*To own an iPhone is to own a crippled operating system akin to ChromeOS.*

[sms]

On 8/28/2021 10:30 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
>> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
>> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
>> it properly fixed.
>
> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
support.

You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
expensive.

Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

[sms]

On 8/28/2021 10:33 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>> availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.
>
> In your desperation to make excuses for why iOS is crippled you make an
> argument that goes against all your other arguments as to why you love iOS.

nospam is wrong of course™.

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer>

Wi-Fi analyzer has over 10 million installs. It may be an app thouse
users only open once or twice, but when they need it, it's very useful.

[Robin Goodfellow]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> asked

> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

To own an iPhone is to own a crippled operating system (crippled by Apple).

"Generic ELM327 adapters will not work with OBD Fusion.
*This has to do with _iOS limitations_ than with the scanner itself*."
https://scanneranswers.com/choosing-the-best-obd2-iphone-app-bluetooth/

Unfortunately there is no way to use Wi-Fi adapter on iOS while the app is
in background. *This is an _Apple iOS restriction_* and there's no way to
overcome it."
https://www.carscanner.info/choosing-obdii-adapter/

> You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
> connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
> expensive.

Under $25: Adapters in this price range are usually Android/PC or
Android-only options. *Compatibility with iOS is uncommon* in this bracket.
https://www.thedrive.com/reviews/37959/obd2-bluetooth-adapter

> Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
> rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?

[nospam]

In article <sge2ke$mob$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

wrong.

obd dongles have supported bluetooth le for nearly a decade.

there are also obd dongles that connect directly to the phone via the
dock connector or lightning.

> You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
> connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
> expensive.

wrong.

they're all about the same price.

> Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
> rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

it's not a rationalization. they don't.

most people when seeing a check engine light will take their car to the

mechanic and have it properly fixed.

even if someone wants to read the code, there's usually nothing they
can do unless the problem is minor, which it usually isn't when the cel
comes on.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>support.

Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
are apps that will test for which features are available. For
example:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vialsoft.elm327_test_obd_identifier>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applagapp.elm327identifier>
I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
compatible, that turned out to be an older version.

The original ELM327:
<https://www.elmelectronics.com/ic/elm327/>
Various protocols and chips:
<https://www.elmelectronics.com/products/ics/obd/>

>Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
>rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

Yep. Ordinary users just love having Apple make their decisions for
them.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:37:29 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?

Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple self driving car:
<https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/>
When the car is eventually released, I suspect that mere mortal
drivers will not be allowed to use the ODBII port without an Apple Car
Care contract. Or, it might be reserved for use only by Authorized
Service Centers. Ever get the feeling you are allowed to have less
and less control over your devices?

You don't need to know. We know better. We are in control. You are
about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of games and
five year product lives, but of mindless behavior and sky high prices.
A journey into the wondrous land of Apple. Next stop, the iPhone
Zone.

[Your Name]

On 2021-08-29 01:02:55 +0000, Jeff Liebermann said:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:37:29 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
> <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:
>
>> Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?
>
> Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple self driving car:
> <https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/>
> When the car is eventually released, I suspect that mere mortal
> drivers will not be allowed to use the ODBII port without an Apple Car
> Care contract. Or, it might be reserved for use only by Authorized
> Service Centers. Ever get the feeling you are allowed to have less
> and less control over your devices?
>
> You don't need to know. We know better. We are in control. You are
> about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of games and
> five year product lives, but of mindless behavior and sky high prices.
> A journey into the wondrous land of Apple. Next stop, the iPhone
> Zone.

And yet another cross-posting brainless anti-Apple moron troll meets
the killfile.

[sms]

On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>> support.
>
> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
> ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
> are apps that will test for which features are available. For
> example:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vialsoft.elm327_test_obd_identifier>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applagapp.elm327identifier>
> I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
> compatible, that turned out to be an older version.

I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but then
they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was $30
but always connects properly. I use it with Torque Pro, but Carista has
their own app that has manufacturer specific codes for some brands. It's
not a free app, it has a monthly fee, but you can just sign up whenever
you need the manufacturer specific codes support.

[nospam]

In article <sgevif$7ad$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
> > compatible, that turned out to be an older version.
>
> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but then
> they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was $30

$30??? and you're complaining about the high price of obd adapters??

obd dongles that work perfectly fine with iphones cost quite a bit less
than that, they work with many obd apps app and in some cases, an app
isn't even needed because of what ios can do.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> asked

> Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple self driving car:
> <https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/>

Apple has never designed even a single SOC without huge flaws.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+unfixable+flaws+soc

Can you imagine the built in unfixable flaws in an Apple car!

> When the car is eventually released, I suspect that mere mortal
> drivers will not be allowed to use the ODBII port without an Apple Car
> Care contract.

The entire sales pitch will be based on fear (that's what drives Apple
owners, fear, and nothing but fear).

If you don't purchase expensive cheap Apple tires, you'll die.
If you don't get the contract to fix our bugs, you'll die.
If you purchase a non-Apple battery or windshield, you'll die.

> Or, it might be reserved for use only by Authorized
> Service Centers. Ever get the feeling you are allowed to have less
> and less control over your devices?

Apple will throttle the engine, year after year, lowering top speed.
At some point the engine will be unusable so that you'll buy a new car.

> You don't need to know. We know better. We are in control.

The car will only be able to make left turns.
You can get anywhere with left turns so you're holding the steering wheel
wrong if you try to make right turns. Right turns cost extra.

> You are
> about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of games and
> five year product lives, but of mindless behavior and sky high prices.

Apple will spend more on marketing the car than on building it.
Just like now when Apple's R&D is the lowest in all of high tech.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+R%26D+lowest

> A journey into the wondrous land of Apple.
> Next stop, the iPhone Zone.

Apple will cripple the car so that you'll have to pay to get back the basic
functionality that is on all other cars but not on any of the Apple cars.

[John]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:45:03 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> And yet another cross-posting brainless anti-Apple moron troll meets
> the killfile.

Jeff Liebermann knows more about radio setup than almost anyone here.
Certainly he knows more about electronics than you ever will know.
You're the moron, YourName, for not recognizing people who know their shit.

[Your Name]

I don't care what they do and don't know ... cross-posting crap to the
iphone newsgroup is simply not wanted.

[sms]

Wow, kill-filing Jeff Liebermann, LOL.

Jeff is probably the smartest person posting here (or second smartest
anyway), and I'm pretty certain that he's set up far more wireless
networks for businesses than anyone else posting in
misc.phone.mobile.iphone.

I'm sure that Jeff will be devastated to find that one of our favorite
trolls has insulted and kill-filed him--NOT.

[Frank Slootweg]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/28/2021 10:33 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> > nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
> >> availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.
> >
> > In your desperation to make excuses for why iOS is crippled you make an
> > argument that goes against all your other arguments as to why you love iOS.
>

> nospam is wrong of course?.

>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer>
>
> Wi-Fi analyzer has over 10 million installs. It may be an app thouse
> users only open once or twice, but when they need it, it's very useful.

Yep, that's exactly the one I used a couple of times. On several
devices, so I'm afraid I'm responsible for a few of those (over) 10
million installs!

I'll try to be more "ordinary" in future, but don't count on it.

[sms]

On 8/29/2021 4:42 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> Wi-Fi analyzer has over 10 million installs. It may be an app thouse
>> users only open once or twice, but when they need it, it's very useful.
>
> Yep, that's exactly the one I used a couple of times. On several
> devices, so I'm afraid I'm responsible for a few of those (over) 10
> million installs!
>
> I'll try to be more "ordinary" in future, but don't count on it.

LOL. There are a lot of apps that are used only occasionally, and a lot
of apps that are used on a daily basis. I use Torque Pro only right
before a smog check (to ensure that the sensors have completed their
readiness tests), or if the "Check Engine" light comes on; I could go
more than a year between launches of that app. WiFi analyzer falls into
that category as well. An extremely useful, but only occasionally
needed, application. It's odd why it's not possible to have such an app
on iOS anymore.

But I'm sure that nospam will appreciate your attempt to become an
ordinary, regular, typical, normal, person instead of some freak that
uses apps with only 10 million, versus 100 million installs.

[nospam]

In article <sgg3p7$1n5$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> LOL. There are a lot of apps that are used only occasionally, and a lot
> of apps that are used on a daily basis. I use Torque Pro only right
> before a smog check (to ensure that the sensors have completed their
> readiness tests), or if the "Check Engine" light comes on; I could go
> more than a year between launches of that app.

there are shitloads of obd apps for ios, some of which run in the
background without the need to launch an app every single time,
something not possible on android. i've written obd apps and am *very*
familiar with what can and cannot be done.

> WiFi analyzer falls into
> that category as well. An extremely useful, but only occasionally
> needed, application. It's odd why it's not possible to have such an app
> on iOS anymore.

what's odd is that you keep lying.

such an app is possible, although the apis have changed over the years,
as have many other apis.

have you started learning how to write ios apps yet? maybe you can do
better than 'arlen' did with his failed attempt at writing android
apps.

[Jim Whitby]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:14:11 -0400, nospam wrote:

<snip>

> there are shitloads of obd apps for ios, some of which run in the
> background without the need to launch an app every single time,
> something not possible on android. i've written obd apps and am *very*
> familiar with what can and cannot be done.

Really? Where do you get your information/education?
Wherever you got your information/education it needs updating to reality.

I have several apps on my Android phone that run in the background just
fine. No intervention required by me.

I used to have an obd app that ran fine in the background, I no longer
use it because the vehicle I use now has its own app that replaces it
( in the background ).


<snip>

[nospam]

In article <nnd$1128d40e$1001e888@6b9b8d478ace45d1>, Jim Whitby

<ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:

> > there are shitloads of obd apps for ios, some of which run in the
> > background without the need to launch an app every single time,
> > something not possible on android. i've written obd apps and am *very*
> > familiar with what can and cannot be done.
>
> Really? Where do you get your information/education?

from writing mobile apps that do exactly what i described.

> Wherever you got your information/education it needs updating to reality.

it's up to date.

> I have several apps on my Android phone that run in the background just
> fine. No intervention required by me.

you might be thinking about ordinary apps running in the background.

that's *not* what i'm talking about.

what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in
particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at
all. this isn't specific to obd either.

the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's
iphone, ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the
background if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which
point the app starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.

this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
phone has been rebooted.

android can't do that.

some of the apps might need to be used in the foreground, such as an
obd app displaying fault codes, however the app is already linked and
communicating long before it's launched.

[Jim Whitby]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:19:57 -0400, nospam wrote:
<snip>

> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
> and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in
> particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at all.
> this isn't specific to obd either.
>
> the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's iphone,
> ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the background
> if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which point the app
> starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.
>
> this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
> phone has been rebooted.
>
> android can't do that.

I almost feel sorry for you. I'm not sure if its just plain ignorance or
"Don't confuse me with facts, my minds made up."

How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???

Give me a mailing address, I'll send you some info about electronics.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-28, Robin Goodfellow <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>>
>> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting
>> is someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car
>> despite not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a
>> mechanic and have it properly fixed.
>
> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all
> platforms except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason,
> would hate OBDII.

More pure bullshit from Arlen (aka Robin Goodfellow) and his troll
buddies. I've used the Carista OBD2 adapter for *years* with several
different makes and model cars, using the OBD Fusion app on a bunch of
different iPhone models. The FACT is not only do iPhone-compatible
OBDII adapters exist, they also happen to work very well. Apple clearly
does not "hate OBDII", as Arlen claims.

<https://caristaapp.com/adapter>
<https://www.obdsoftware.net/software/obdfusion>

Being caught in this laughably obvious LIE, Arlen will now either refuse
to acknowledge this FACT -or- he will attempt to move the goal post by
attacking the Carista adapter or the OBD Fusion app.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-28, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/28/2021 10:30 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>>> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
>>> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
>>> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
>>> it properly fixed.
>>
>> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
>> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.
>
> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

Bullshit. Is $19.99 considered "expensive" in your world? Because here
on planet Earth, that's how much I paid for my Carista OBDII adapter
which uses Bluetooth LE, and it works fine with iPhones - and has for
years.

You dipshit Apple trolls are full of shit, as usual. Get a life.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-08-28 13:30, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

My BlueDriver OBD served me well on my previous car and on the current
one via iPhone, so again you're out to lunch.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-29, John <jo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:45:03 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> And yet another cross-posting brainless anti-Apple moron troll meets
>> the killfile.
>
> Jeff Liebermann knows more about radio setup than almost anyone here.
> Certainly he knows more about electronics than you ever will know.

Yet Jeff apparently doesn't know that Bluetooth OBDII adapters (like the
Carista OBD2 adapter I have) work just fine with iPhones, and have for
many years, because he chimed right in to post a lame joke in agreement
with incorrect claims that they don't exist from another troll. Yes,
clearly he "knows more than just about anyone here"...\s

> You're the moron, YourName, for not recognizing people who know their
> shit.

Projection.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-29, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>>> support.
>>
>> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
>> ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
>> are apps that will test for which features are available. For
>> example:

>> I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
>> compatible, that turned out to be an older version.
>
> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but
> then they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was
> $30

Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.

> but always connects properly. I use it with Torque Pro, but Carista
> has their own app that has manufacturer specific codes for some
> brands.

Apparently you never bothered to try it with an iPhone, which you and
your butt buddy Arlen (Robin) claim won't work.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-29, Jim Whitby <ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:19:57 -0400, nospam wrote:
><snip>
>
>> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
>> and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in
>> particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at all.
>> this isn't specific to obd either.
>>
>> the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's iphone,
>> ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the background
>> if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which point the app
>> starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.
>>
>> this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
>> phone has been rebooted.
>>
>> android can't do that.
>

> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???

I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
blind or something?

[Lewis]

In message <nnd$1128d40e$1001e888@6b9b8d478ace45d1> Jim Whitby <ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:14:11 -0400, nospam wrote:

> <snip>

>> there are shitloads of obd apps for ios, some of which run in the
>> background without the need to launch an app every single time,
>> something not possible on android. i've written obd apps and am *very*
>> familiar with what can and cannot be done.

> I have several apps on my Android phone that run in the background just
> fine. No intervention required by me.

Perhaps read ALL THE WORDS.

> I used to have an obd app that ran fine in the background,

Without launching them first? I doubt it. But sure, go ahead and name
them.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Well, I think so, Brain, but I can't memorize a whole opera in
Yiddish."

[Lewis]

In message <nnd$2ac7d9e0$352d29de@010391d1f6c084ba> Jim Whitby <ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:19:57 -0400, nospam wrote:
> <snip>

>> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
>> and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in
>> particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at all.
>> this isn't specific to obd either.
>>
>> the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's iphone,
>> ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the background
>> if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which point the app
>> starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.
>>
>> this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
>> phone has been rebooted.
>>
>> android can't do that.

> I almost feel sorry for you. I'm not sure if its just plain ignorance or
> "Don't confuse me with facts, my minds made up."

You clearly have not fucking idea what you are talking about, and I
suspect you have never written an app for any platform, so most of the
words up there glid past without making the slightest impression on that
sorry excuse for a brain you were cursed with at birth.

--
I have NOT lost my mind! I've got a backup around here somewhere.

[Lewis]

In message <sge2ke$mob$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

Don't you ever get tired of spewing complete and utter horseshit?

> You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
> connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
> expensive.

No they are not. $20 is what I paid for one I bought as a gift for a
friend, who is still using it with her car and iPhone. It might have
been as much as $25. Feel free to link an OBDII monitor that costs less
than US$2.50, or admit you are a lying sack of shit.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"

"I think so, Brain, but if it was only supposed to be a three hour
tour, why did the Howells bring all their money?"

[Lewis]

Well, he knows nothing about OBD2 and iOS if he's claiming it doesn't
work better on iOS than on Android, that's for sure.


--
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -
Groucho Marx

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
> such an app is possible

And yet, *they don't exist on the Apple app store* - a fact you can't deny.

Why is it _only_ iOS that is crippled (but not any other operating system)?
I don't know why.

Either it's that iOS owners only play games with iOS, as nospam and Jolly
Roger and Lewis constantly allude to when they say "who needs debuggers?"

Or it's that Apple expressly doesn't allow the use of the functions
necessary to make these tools work (which work on all other operating
systems)...

Or...???

Why?

Which is it?
a. iOS is a toy OS (as nospam constantly claims)
b. Apple won't allow these apps on iOS
c. Or ???

*Why is it _only_ iOS that is crippled* (but no other operating system)?

[nospam]

In article <ip2ans...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2021-08-28, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> > Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> > support.
>
> Bullshit. Is $19.99 considered "expensive" in your world? Because here
> on planet Earth, that's how much I paid for my Carista OBDII adapter
> which uses Bluetooth LE, and it works fine with iPhones - and has for
> years.

in another post, sms claims he paid $30 for his adapter, which is not
'low-cost'.

i paid around $10 for a noname adapter which works without issue using
numerous obd apps.

> You dipshit Apple trolls are full of shit, as usual. Get a life.

trolling *is* their life, although some of the claims are quite funny.

one of the better ones is that room lights need to be turned on just to
get face id to work. that's truly fucked up.

[nospam]

In article <ip2c2c...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
> >> and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in
> >> particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at all.
> >> this isn't specific to obd either.
> >>
> >> the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's iphone,
> >> ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the background
> >> if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which point the app
> >> starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.
> >>
> >> this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
> >> phone has been rebooted.
> >>
> >> android can't do that.
> >
> > How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
> > connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
>
> I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
> blind or something?

"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
- arthur c. clarke.

[Jim Whitby]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:21:16 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:
<snip>

>>> android can't do that.
>>
>> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
>> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
>
> I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
> blind or something?

It appears I can see better than you. I was asking how if not bluetooth,
how? Then he claimed apple was the only one that could do it.

Or maybe you missed the "android can't do that".

[nospam]

In article <nnd$008998e8$727a29bd@40e367d97e3319e7>, Jim Whitby

<ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:

> >>
> >> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
> >> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
> >
> > I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
> > blind or something?
>
> It appears I can see better than you. I was asking how if not bluetooth,
> how? Then he claimed apple was the only one that could do it.
>
> Or maybe you missed the "android can't do that".

or maybe you failed to understand everything i said.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-29, Jim Whitby <ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:21:16 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:
><snip>
>

>>> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
>>> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
>>
>> I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
>> blind or something?
>
> It appears I can see better than you.

Apparently not...

>I was asking how if not bluetooth, how?

Your own words above definitely do *not* mention Bluetooth *at all*.
It seems it is *you* who can't read (or more correctly, *write*).

> he claimed apple was the only one that could do it.
>
> Or maybe you missed the "android can't do that".

That's not what he meant by "that". If you think you are fooling anyone
here by conveniently snipping out what he actually said, you're a fool.
Here's what you dishonestly snipped in order to play dumb - with
emphasis added to the bit you either don't understand or flat-out
*ignored*, probably in order to roll a really lame troll:

>>> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically
>>> connect and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the

>>> background, in particular, *without* the user needing to separately

>>> launch an app at all.

Go ahead and troll some more. It's transparent to anyone with a
functioning brain.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jim Whitby <ne...@spockmail.net> asked

>>>> android can't do that.
>>>
>>> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
>>> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
>>
>> I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
>> blind or something?
>
> It appears I can see better than you. I was asking how if not bluetooth,
> how? Then he claimed apple was the only one that could do it.
>
> Or maybe you missed the "android can't do that".

What's happening is the iOS lovers _hate_ that iOS is a crippled OS.

The fact remains of the lack of graphical wifi and cellular debugging tools
on iOS which clearly are on all other operating systems _except_ iOS.

iPhone lovers will defend this crippled lack of functionality to the death.
Hence, they're "blind" to everything about either iOS or Android proving it.

Worse, as you noted, they _twist_ what was said to suit their desperation.

They're _desperate_ to find something (anything) iOS can do that Android
does all the time given there is so much the crippled iOS _can't_ do that
Android does.

They even twisted my words given I never said OBDII wasn't on iOS because
they're _desperate_ to defend the crippled iPhone any way they possibly can.

Here is _exactly_ what I said (verbatim):

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
> it properly fixed.

Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate
OBDII.

Many useful utilities are on all platforms _except_ the iOS platform.
Graphical cellular signal debuggers are yet another example not on iOS.

*The toy iOS isn't actually useful for _anything_ other than playing*
*games.*

I was using analogies, and yet, what you are seeing is how the iPhone lovers
responded in their increasing desperation to defend the clearly crippled
nature of the lack of graphical wifi and cellular debugging tools on iOS
which are on all other operating systems _except_ iOS.

The fact remains that to own an iPhone is to own a crippled handheld device.
Only on iOS are graphical wifi & cellular debuggers not available to all.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-29, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ip2ans...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-08-28, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> > OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>> > Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>> > support.
>>
>> Bullshit. Is $19.99 considered "expensive" in your world? Because here
>> on planet Earth, that's how much I paid for my Carista OBDII adapter
>> which uses Bluetooth LE, and it works fine with iPhones - and has for
>> years.
>
> in another post, sms claims he paid $30 for his adapter, which is not
> 'low-cost'.
>
> i paid around $10 for a noname adapter which works without issue using
> numerous obd apps.
>
>> You dipshit Apple trolls are full of shit, as usual. Get a life.
>
> trolling *is* their life

Which is fucking *pathetic*. I can't imagine how sad and empty my life
would have to be that I would get any sort of pleasure or satisfaction
out of spending gobs of my time actively going to newsgroups for
products I dislike for the sole purpose of antagonizing complete
strangers just because they use those products. That strikes me as the
exact same asshole mentality of the anti-vaccers and anti-maskers you
see going around and harassing complete strangers and hospital and
minimum wage workers just for being productive and helpful members of
society.

> one of the better ones is that room lights need to be turned on just to
> get face id to work. that's truly fucked up.

Lies and hate are all they have. They have no place in society.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Robin Goodfellow <Ancient...@Heaven.Net> asked

> The fact remains that to own an iPhone is to own a crippled handheld device.
> Only on iOS are graphical wifi & cellular debuggers not available to all.

Note that it's _not_ just the lack of graphical wifi & cellular debugging
that the crippled iOS operating system lacks compared to _all_ others OSs.

Only iOS lacks the Tor Browser (the "Onion Browser" is _not_ secure!) while
again (as is commonly the case), _all_ other operating systems have it.

Only iOS lacks a FOSS system-wide firewall such as NetGuard for Android and
many others for Windows, Linux, and macOS.

There are so many functionalities on Android _not_ on iOS that it would make
your head spin, such as launchers, call recorders, youtube clones, gps
spoofers, alternate repositories, no need for an account, APKs work on
almost all devices, etc., that to not know these facts is to not know...

To own an iPhone is to own a crippled handheld device (it can play games).

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> asked

> Which is fucking *pathetic*. I can't imagine how sad and empty my life
> would have to be that I would get any sort of pleasure or satisfaction
> out of spending gobs of my time actively going to newsgroups for
> products I dislike for the sole purpose of antagonizing complete
> strangers just because they use those products.

The more you know about iOS & android, the more you know the facts
iOS is a crippled operating system that is wonderful for the ignorati.

> That strikes me as the
> exact same asshole mentality of the anti-vaccers and anti-maskers you
> see going around and harassing complete strangers and hospital and
> minimum wage workers just for being productive and helpful members of
> society.

The more well educated people know about these mRNA & mAdenovirus vaccines,
compared with the fact that more than half the covid infected people have no
symptoms, coupled with the damages and danger to a tiny percent of the
overall population but that danger suddenly multiplies to a hugely important
fatal ~4% at 65 & over, doubling at 75 or over and doubling yet again at 85
or over... and is even worse for the immunocompromised, obese, cardiac
compromised, diabetic, etc., community...

The more you know... the _less_ you would tell someone else what to do
(since the math is all in the probabilities and hence is immensely complex).

It seems to only be the people who know _nothing_ who are telling others
whether or not to vax or whether or not to mask - which is typical.

The less these people know, the more sure they are of their opinions.

[nospam]

In article <sgh4ev$1ti$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow

<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>
> The less these people know, the more sure they are of their opinions.

look no further than yourself for proof.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 29 Aug 2021 21:05:31 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2021-08-29, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>>>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>>>> support.
>>>
>>> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
>>> ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
>>> are apps that will test for which features are available. For
>>> example:
>>> I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
>>> compatible, that turned out to be an older version.
>>
>> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but
>> then they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was
>> $30

>Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.

When? There's one currently selling on eBay for $19.98 shipped from
China but the rest are $30 and up (including shipping and no sales tax
at the time). My guess(tm) is about 4 to 6 years ago:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=carista+obd2>

Carista currently sells theirs on their web site for $29.99 plus
$50/year if you want to use their app.
<https://caristaapp.com/pricing>
There's probably some charge for shipping and sales tax.

I couldn't find it on Amazon:
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=carista+obd2>

I'm using a Konnwei KW902 OBD-II adapter. I don't recall what I paid
for it on eBay but I think it was about $20 including shipping with no
sales tax at the time:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Konnwei+KW902>
However, there are problems. The ELM327 chip is v1.5 instead of the
current v2.3 and it's BT 3.0. It's not BTLE compatible. It works
with everything I've tried that doesn't require later versions of the
ELM327 firmware or Bluetooth. Torque Pro works fine in my 2001 Subaru
Forester on my Moto G Power (2020) Android phone. The best feature is
that it has an on-off push button so it can be left plugged in and not
run the car battery down. It also turns itself off after 30 min. I
had previously purchased a variety of other cheap ELM327 devices, all
of which had problems that made them useless. Caveat emptor.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jim Whitby]

Wow. you go on and on about Bluetooth being able to do all this fancy
stuff, then claim it can't be done on Android.

How can you be so ignorant? Bluetooth works the same on Android, Windows
or any other phone os you can name.
Foreground, background whatever.

Enuf of this. I'm not replying to any more.




































wow. You really don'ty know what you sais , do you?
You go on and on about Bluetooth and how it can be used in the
background , blah, blah. and that Android can't do that.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:57:45 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient...@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>Why is it _only_ iOS that is crippled (but not any other operating system)?
>I don't know why.

For a long time, the only Apple approved utility suitable of analyzing
WiFi was the Apple Airport Utility app:
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/airport-utility/id427276530>
Note the 3.0 out of 5 rating. One theory is that by forcing iPhone
users to use the Airport Utility for everything WiFi, Apple can turn
it into an effective sales tool for the now defunct Airport base
stations.

Click on "Version History" on the above page. The last update was Oct
2019, so the app isn't quite ready for burial. However, it's
interesting that there were several firmware updates that coincided
with IOS updates, suggesting compatibility problems between the iPhone
and the various Airports. I was marginally involved in one of those,
where early iPhones and would fail to connect or stay connected to
non-Airport wireless routers. Apple was contacted and refused to fix
what they perceived was everyone else's problem. So, there was a
flurry of router firmware updates to fix the timing problems Apple had
introduced. I don't have all the dates and details handy and really
don't want to spend the time getting involved in yet another endless
debate.

Meanwhile, Apple seems to have relented a little on allowing WiFi
Analyzer type programs. For example:
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/network-analyzer-pro/id557405467>
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/network-analyzer/id562315041>
There are others.

I burned about 30 minutes looking through other network tools on the
App Store (because I don't do much work on Apple products and am very
out of date as to what apps are available). I couldn't find anything
that offered access to Layer 2 (MAC layer) data as would be needed to
do network hardware analysis. There are plenty of Layer 3 (IP layer)
tools such as ping, traceroute, and other basics, but these are
trivial compared to what is available for Android, Windoze, MacOS and
of course, Linux.

For example, Network Signal Info Pro will display most everything I
need to untangle cellular provisioning errors and display what the
WiFi chip is doing:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet2&hl=en_US&gl=US>

LTE Discovery will show far more than I want to know about the
available LTE sites and services including 5G sites:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.simplyadvanced.ltediscovery&hl=en_US&gl=US>

Cellular-Z will display quite a bit about the connected cell sites and
WiFi routers:
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=cellular-z&c=apps&hl=en_US&gl=US>

Apple has a long way to go before I consider an iPhone or iPad as a
serious tool for network troubleshooting.

Drivel: I spent half of Saturday and half of today moving and
stacking 1/2 cord of firewood to my house. Monday and Tuesday will be
more of the same. If there are any questions, it may be a few days
before I recover. Right now, my right side aches. Tomorrow, I'm
certain the other 1/2 will also ache.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:52:00 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <sgf1rs$h8v$1...@gioia.aioe.org> John <jo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 14:45:03 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>> And yet another cross-posting brainless anti-Apple moron troll meets
>>> the killfile.
>
>> Jeff Liebermann knows more about radio setup than almost anyone here.
>> Certainly he knows more about electronics than you ever will know.
>> You're the moron, YourName, for not recognizing people who know their
>> shit.

>Well, he knows nothing about OBD2 and iOS if he's claiming it doesn't
>work better on iOS than on Android, that's for sure.

Are you sure I wrote that? That would be a difficult claim for me to
make. The last iPhone I owned was an iPhone 3G. The last iPad was an
iPad 2. I never tried using either with any OBD-II BT device,
including those owned by customers. Mostly, I've used various OBD-II
BT devices on a variety of Android, Windoze, ChromeOS, and Linux
computahs. I will confess that I did help a friend reset his engine
warning light and record the codes using his iPhone 4 and one of my
OBD-II dongles. However, that was so long ago that I don't recall if
I had any problems or if I was successful. Probably successful
because I tend to remember the problems and forget the successes.

Also, if I had claimed that something "works better", I would have
provided comparisons, details, and examples. I always do that.

Incidentally, I consider iPhones and Android phones to be rather
similar at the user level. Perhaps as much as 90% similar if I don't
explore the architecture and details. Apple and Google have been
borrowing each other's ideas for a long time. As evidence, I've
noticed that it's not very difficult for an iPhone user to quickly
learn how to use an Android phone. The reverse is also true. The
only thing that's really different are the names of the various
functions and how deeply Apple and Google bury them in their menu
systems. Extra credit to vendors, such as Sumsung, that add
proprietary enhancements to help lock in their customers who don't
want to learning too much that's new.

[sms]

On 8/29/2021 12:49 PM, Jim Whitby wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 15:19:57 -0400, nospam wrote:
> <snip>
>

>> what i'm specifically referring to are apps that automatically connect
>> and communicate with bluetooth devices entirely in the background, in

>> particular, without the user needing to separately launch an app at all.
>> this isn't specific to obd either.
>>
>> the moment the bluetooth device comes within range of the user's iphone,
>> ios will automatically auto-launch the app directly into the background
>> if needed with no user interaction whatsoever, at which point the app
>> starts doing whatever the app was designed to do.
>>
>> this happens regardless of when the app was last launched, even if the
>> phone has been rebooted.
>>

>> android can't do that.
>

> I almost feel sorry for you. I'm not sure if its just plain ignorance or
> "Don't confuse me with facts, my minds made up."
>

> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???

Obviously he is not familiar with Android devices, and believes that
something that Android devices have done for years, automatically
launching an app when if connects to Bluetooth.
>
> Give me a mailing address, I'll send you some info about electronics.

It would be very expensive to ship all the materials necessary, and he
would be unlikely to understand any of it anywat.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-30, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On 29 Aug 2021 21:05:31 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-08-29, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>>>>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
>>>> ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
>>>> are apps that will test for which features are available. For
>>>> example:
>>>> I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
>>>> compatible, that turned out to be an older version.
>>>
>>> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but
>>> then they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was
>>> $30
>
>>Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.
>
> When?

A few years ago, IIRC - not that it's really relevant.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> asked

> When? There's one currently selling on eBay for $19.98 shipped from
> China but the rest are $30 and up (including shipping and no sales tax
> at the time). My guess(tm) is about 4 to 6 years ago:

Jeff,
You don't appear to know these Apple zealot cultists like Jolly Roger,
Everything they claim is fabricated.

They can't ever back up even a single claim they brazenly make.

Why?
I'm not sure why.

It seems they're desperate to defend the religious belief systems Apple
advertising inculcated into their brains, sans a single actual fact.

They are like trying to understand why a flat earther is what he is.
They only believe what Tim Cooks tells them to believe on the Apple site.

[Jerry]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 23:42:17 -0700, sms wrote:
> I'm sure that Jeff will be devastated to find that one of our favorite
> trolls has insulted and kill-filed him--NOT.

This YourName idiot is one of those Apple weirdos?

[nospam]

In article <v95oig13dmuhptfq4...@4ax.com>, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> I'm using a Konnwei KW902 OBD-II adapter. I don't recall what I paid
> for it on eBay but I think it was about $20 including shipping with no
> sales tax at the time:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Konnwei+KW902>
> However, there are problems. The ELM327 chip is v1.5 instead of the
> current v2.3 and it's BT 3.0. It's not BTLE compatible.

that was not a very good deal, and without btle, it's very outdated.

> It works
> with everything I've tried that doesn't require later versions of the
> ELM327 firmware or Bluetooth. Torque Pro works fine in my 2001 Subaru
> Forester on my Moto G Power (2020) Android phone. The best feature is
> that it has an on-off push button so it can be left plugged in and not
> run the car battery down. It also turns itself off after 30 min.

if it turns itself off after 30 minutes, then there's no need for a
button (plus it's very inconvenient to use) and the quiescent draw is
negligible and not normally an issue either.

> I had previously purchased a variety of other cheap ELM327 devices, all
> of which had problems that made them useless. Caveat emptor.

i bought an obd adapter with btle for $10 a few years ago. it works
great without any issues. no idea who made it. they're fairly generic
although some are definitely junk.

there are more advanced obd adapters and apps available, for those who
want additional features.

i also have several other obd adapters. one in particular is a custom
obd device used for a very specific purpose, with custom software.

[nospam]

In article <nnd$3f74beba$3e3e6013@afef4614725a07ac>, Jim Whitby

<ne...@spockmail.net> wrote:

> >> >> How do you think every phone (Android, Windows, ios, linux, etc) is
> >> >> connected to a vehicle? Magic? USB? WiFi? or ???
> >> >
> >> > I mean, he literally said "Bluetooth" multiple times above. Are you
> >> > blind or something?
> >>
> >> It appears I can see better than you. I was asking how if not
> >> bluetooth,
> >> how? Then he claimed apple was the only one that could do it.
> >>
> >> Or maybe you missed the "android can't do that".
> >
> > or maybe you failed to understand everything i said.
>
> Wow. you go on and on about Bluetooth being able to do all this fancy
> stuff, then claim it can't be done on Android.

correct. what i described can't be done on android. btdt.

it helps to have actually written mobile apps that use bluetooth to
know what is possible and what is not. you clearly have not.

> How can you be so ignorant? Bluetooth works the same on Android, Windows
> or any other phone os you can name.
> Foreground, background whatever.

nope. that is absolutely false.

maybe if all you do is pair headphones or a mouse, you won't notice
much of a difference between platforms, except maybe how fast it links,
which is part of the differences i'm talking about.

what you fail to understand is that there's much, much more to
bluetooth than just simple stuff like that. again, i've written mobile
apps that push bluetooth to its limits.

> Enuf of this. I'm not replying to any more.

wise choice, because you're in *way* over your head and digging a
deeper hole with every word.

[nospam]

In article <c48oigdvup2r8veim...@4ax.com>, Jeff

Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

> One theory is that by forcing iPhone
> users to use the Airport Utility for everything WiFi, Apple can turn
> it into an effective sales tool for the now defunct Airport base
> stations.

that's not a very good theory. quite bad, in fact.

> Click on "Version History" on the above page. The last update was Oct
> 2019, so the app isn't quite ready for burial. However, it's
> interesting that there were several firmware updates that coincided
> with IOS updates, suggesting compatibility problems between the iPhone
> and the various Airports.

two different tracks by two different groups within apple.

> I was marginally involved in one of those,
> where early iPhones and would fail to connect or stay connected to
> non-Airport wireless routers. Apple was contacted and refused to fix
> what they perceived was everyone else's problem.

very marginally, since there i can't think of any issue with early
iphones and non-apple routers, something which would be *very*
widespread if it existed.

i still have my old iphones and various routers so any specifics would
be of interest.

i do recall a minor issue with the original ipad with only *some* wifi
networks, which turned out to be a configuration issue of the affected
wifi networks. the ipads worked normally just about everywhere else.

> So, there was a
> flurry of router firmware updates to fix the timing problems Apple had
> introduced. I don't have all the dates and details handy and really
> don't want to spend the time getting involved in yet another endless
> debate.

wise choice.

> I burned about 30 minutes looking through other network tools on the
> App Store (because I don't do much work on Apple products and am very
> out of date as to what apps are available).

then don't pretend to know more about apple products than those who
actually use apple products every day and have for many years.

in another post, you said the last iphone you had was *thirteen*
*years* *ago, with an iphone 3g. a *lot* has changed since then. there
is almost nothing about an iphone 3g that is relevant anymore.

stick to networking and radios.

[nospam]

In article <sghil5$p0a$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Obviously he is not familiar with Android devices, and believes that
> something that Android devices have done for years, automatically
> launching an app when if connects to Bluetooth.

they don't, except in very limited circumstances. btdt. as usual, you
are wrong.

bluetooth is one of many things that ios does better than android. it's
just how it is. i've written apps that use bluetooth and am *very*
familiar with what's possible and what's not, on both platforms.

there are also some things that android does better than ios. however,
bluetooth ain't one of them.

[Ilya Kraskov]

On 29.8.2021 14:01, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Yet Jeff apparently doesn't know that Bluetooth OBDII adapters (like the
> Carista OBD2 adapter I have) work just fine with iPhones, and have for
> many years, because he chimed right in to post a lame joke in agreement
> with incorrect claims that they don't exist from another troll. Yes,
> clearly he "knows more than just about anyone here"...\s

Jeff knows more electronics than fifty of you Jolly Rogers' will ever know.
He has a self deprecating sense of wit, much like Paul on the Windows ng.

All you Apple idiots are so stupid you can't believe that it's only you five
or six morons who believe only what Apple posts on the Apple web site.

You lied to Jeff and you expected to get away with it because you think
everyone is as stupid as you five or six Apple morons are.
--
Doveryay, no proveryay.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

>> The less these people know, the more sure they are of their opinions.
>
> look no further than yourself for proof.

You're desperate to defend the crippled iOS using always the _same_ tricks.

We see nospam following the predictable path in increasing desperation...
1. First claim he told the user already many times (even as it's
impossible).
2. When that fails, claim imaginary functionality on the Apple App Store.
3. When that fails, say everyone else made Apple remove basic functionality
4. When that fails, say it's not Apple's fault - it's the developers' fault.
5. When that fails, say you should write all the app functionality yourself.
6. When that fails, accuse everyone of being stupid who isn't a developer.
7. When that fails, resort to an infinity of "ftfy" & ad hominem attacks.

All this because he _hates_ *to own an iPhone is to own a crippled device*.

[knuttle]

On 8/29/2021 11:42 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> I'll try to be more "ordinary" in future, but don't count on it.

In the definition of nospam, Lewis, Jolly Roger and Joerg Lorenz, you must
only play games on your phone. You must not debug anything. No utilities.

Since they can't do it on an iPhone, you have no right to do it on Android.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

> bluetooth is one of many things that ios does better than android.

And yet you've never found even _one_ app functionality on iOS that wasn't
already on Android, even as there is _plenty_ of Android app functionality
not on iOS (such as foss automatic call recording, foss graphical wifi
debugging, the real tor browser bundle security, foss system wide firewalls,
choice of foss app launchers, etc.).

The reason Apple devices are crippled is only one reason.
Apple cripples them.

It's not the hardware (although Apple removes most of the basic hardware).
It's not even the operating system per se (although it has holes galore).

The reason Apple iOS devices are crippled compared to Android is simple.
Apple limits the functionality of iOS devices while Google can't.

[wolfgang kern]

On 30.08.2021 01:01, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Apple was contacted and refused to fix
> what they perceived was everyone else's problem. So, there was a
> flurry of router firmware updates to fix the timing problems Apple had
> introduced.

Same thing happened when Apple screwed up all Linux connections to iOS.
That was sometime around iOS 7.0.1 as I recall (not gonna look it up as the
iOS bigots will just deny what everyone else but them already knows).

Apple fucked with the API and then claimed it was Linux' problem.
Why?
Because Apple doesn't give a fuck about Linux.
So Apple broke connectivity of Linux to iOS without even testing it once.

*The Apple operating systems _never_ actually work in the real world.*

Luckily, after a flurry of activity, the Linux folks fixed Apple's shit.
The result was again Linux is more functional with the iPad than iTunes.

Native Ubuntu has read/write/delete access to iOS file system.
It treats the iOS device as a read/write/delete USB stick.

Apple probably hates that people have that kind of functionality though.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked

> then don't pretend to know more about apple products than those who
> actually use apple products every day and have for many years.

You don't know anything about iPhones, nospam.

*You fabricate imaginary iOS functionality all the time, nospam.*

Where's the real torproject tor browser you keep claiming exists, nospam?
Where are the wifi graphical debuggers you keep claiming exist, nospam?
Where are the encryption container tools you keep claiming exist, nospam?
Where are the automatic call recorder tools you keep claiming exist, nospam?
Where are the system wide foss firewalls you keep claiming exist, nospam?
Where are the fake gps spoofing apps you keep claiming work, nospam?
Where are the true ad free youtube clones you keep claiming work, nospam?
Where are the historical IPA backup tools you keep fabricating, nospam?

Why do you incessantly prove to not even have a clue about how iOS works?

I don't know why.

I suspect you get everything you know about iPhones from Apple's web site.

[nospam]

In article <sghpkt$1tkd$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, wolfgang kern

<now...@nospicedham.never.at> wrote:

> Same thing happened when Apple screwed up all Linux connections to iOS.
> That was sometime around iOS 7.0.1 as I recall (not gonna look it up as the
> iOS bigots will just deny what everyone else but them already knows).

yet another arlen nym.

linux support was done by the linux community, not apple.

when apple made a change, the linux community had to update their
driver, which they did, just as what happens with any product that has
aftermarket support.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-30, Ilya Kraskov <Ilyanospam1...@gomail.com.ua> wrote:
> On 29.8.2021 14:01, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Yet Jeff apparently doesn't know that Bluetooth OBDII adapters (like the
>> Carista OBD2 adapter I have) work just fine with iPhones, and have for
>> many years, because he chimed right in to post a lame joke in agreement
>> with incorrect claims that they don't exist from another troll. Yes,
>> clearly he "knows more than just about anyone here"...\s
>
> Jeff knows more electronics than fifty of you Jolly Rogers' will ever know.

Now you're just repeating yourself. And nym switching is lame. *YAWN*

[wolfgang kern]

On 30.08.2021 16:42, nospam wrote:
> when apple made a change, the linux community had to update their
> driver, which they did, just as what happens with any product that has
> aftermarket support.

Apple doesn't support the main operating systems in use today.
Specifically Apple doesn't test their changes that affect linux.

It's one more example of Apple products not working in the real world.
Apple products only work well inside an Apple-made artificial walled garden.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> asked

>>>Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.
>>
>> When?
>
> A few years ago, IIRC - not that it's really relevant.

Jolly Roger lied to you Jeff.
Just like Apple always lies about their battery use time.

Apple probably lies like crazy about their Airport Router signal strength.
(Yes, I know full well you've studied that stuff in great detail. All lie.)

But still... it seems that *Nobody lies like Apple lies* in terms of size.
(Apple paid over a billion dollars last year alone for their public lies.)

And yet, all these lies only hold if nobody checks up on their many lies.

Nobody can ever reproduce the lies from Jolly Roger or Apple.
They assume we're too stupid to check up on what they brazenly make up.

The fact is Jolly Roger just made up the price out of nothing.
Jolly Roger probably doesn't even own the device, nor did he ever.

Jolly Roger assumed you wouldn't check up on his lies.
The real question is why do these Apple apologists brazenly lie?

Are they really that stupid?
Or are they just desperate to defend Apple at all costs?

[nospam]

In article <sgivo4$ee5$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, wolfgang kern

<now...@nospicedham.never.at> wrote:

>
> Apple doesn't support the main operating systems in use today.

yes they do, that being macos and windows.

linux on the desktop is *not* common, no matter what linux users might
think.

linux is commonly used for servers or embedded devices, neither of
which need iphone support.

> Specifically Apple doesn't test their changes that affect linux.

there's no reason why they should since linux isn't a supported system.

lots of companies don't support linux, including camera makers,
wearable devices and much more.

the linux community normally creates its own support for such devices,
with varying degrees of success (usually not particularly good).

[Jolly Roger]

On 2021-08-30, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2021-08-30, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On 29 Aug 2021 21:05:31 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>On 2021-08-29, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>>>>>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS
>>>>>> does not support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned
>>>>> (counterfeit) ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various
>>>>> features. There are apps that will test for which features are
>>>>> available. For example: I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that
>>>>> were advertised to be 2.3 compatible, that turned out to be an
>>>>> older version.
>>>>
>>>> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but
>>>> then they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista"
>>>> was $30
>>
>>>Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.
>>
>> When?
>
> A few years ago, IIRC - not that it's really relevant.

September 2, 2018, to be exact:

<https://i.imgur.com/xuaINWy.jpg>

Not that I need you to believe me. I bought it. I have it. I've used it
for years with multiple cars and Apple devices without issue. It's a
great little OBD2 adapter that I will continue to use, happily. And
what some rando on the net has to say about it won't change a thing.

And of course as usual, Arlen (aka: Robin Goodfellow and a slew of other
nyms here) is a complete know-nothing loser and fool whose entire life
is spent trolling. : )

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 30 Aug 2021 17:35:20 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2021-08-30, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-08-30, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On 29 Aug 2021 21:05:31 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>On 2021-08-29, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>>>>>>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS
>>>>>>> does not support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned
>>>>>> (counterfeit) ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various
>>>>>> features. There are apps that will test for which features are
>>>>>> available. For example: I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that
>>>>>> were advertised to be 2.3 compatible, that turned out to be an
>>>>>> older version.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but
>>>>> then they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista"
>>>>> was $30
>>>
>>>>Then you paid too much. I got mine on Amazon for $19.99.
>>>
>>> When?
>>
>> A few years ago, IIRC - not that it's really relevant.

Thanks. I didn't suggest that you didn't pay $19.99 (plus shipping or
Amazon Prime membership). I simply indicated that I could not find it
on Amazon or anywhere except China for the stated price. You bought
it 3 years ago, which is very relevant if the reader is considering
purchasing the device. Three year old prices are rather useless in
todays inflation driven economy:

"Amazon changes prices on its products about every 10 minutes - here's
how and why they do it"
<https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-price-changes-2018-8>

I often track Amazon pricing history using:
<https://camelcamelcamel.com>
A search currently finds nothing for Carista ODB-II (or ODB2) so no
price history. Here's a competing model as an example. Notice the
radical price changes on Amazon:
<https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B073XKQQQW>

>September 2, 2018, to be exact:
><https://i.imgur.com/xuaINWy.jpg>

Thanks (again) for providing substantiation. That helps separate the
facts from the fabrications.

>Not that I need you to believe me. I bought it. I have it. I've used it
>for years with multiple cars and Apple devices without issue. It's a
>great little OBD2 adapter that I will continue to use, happily. And
>what some rando on the net has to say about it won't change a thing.

I never suggested otherwise. I did mention the device I was using
along with its limitations. If some "rando" on the net offers an
alternative, it would be of little importance to you, but might be
useful to someone reading this thread.

>And of course as usual, Arlen (aka: Robin Goodfellow and a slew of other
>nyms here) is a complete know-nothing loser and fool whose entire life
>is spent trolling. : )

Whatever.

Gone to the post office to pickup some chainsaw parts, which might be
useful for an upcoming WiFi network install.

[Your Name]

Another braindead anti-Apple troll for the killfile. :-\

[sms]

On 8/30/2021 2:24 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Thanks. I didn't suggest that you didn't pay $19.99 (plus shipping or
> Amazon Prime membership). I simply indicated that I could not find it
> on Amazon or anywhere except China for the stated price. You bought
> it 3 years ago, which is very relevant if the reader is considering
> purchasing the device. Three year old prices are rather useless in
> todays inflation driven economy:

I don't see the Carista on Amazon anymore.

It's still available elsewhere
<https://www.ecstuning.com/b-carista-parts/carista-bluetooth-obd2-adapter/cobd-bt24~cra/>,
and it's the same price that it was sold for on Amazon. I never saw it
go on sale for $19.99, but it's possible.

One advantage of the Carista is that it's BLE so you can use it with
iPhone OBD-II apps as well as with Android. Prior to that you had to use
a Wi-Fi ELM-327 OBD-II adapter to use with iPhone, and those were a lot
more expensive than the Bluetooth ELM-327 OBD-II adapters.

Another advantage of the Carista is that their premium subscription
offers manufacturer-specific information for some vehicle manufacturers.

Unfortunately, the Torque Pro app is only on Android, and while there
apps with similar functionality for iOS, they aren't as good as Torque
Pro <https://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Main_Page>.

There's another issue with the el-cheapo ELM-327 adapters as well, some
of them can really screw up the ECU. It's been a common issue on
Priuses, see
<https://priuschat.com/threads/elm327-bluetooth-put-my-car-into-fail-safe-mode-how-to-fix.161034/>.

[Jolly Roger]

Welcome. I don't subscribe to Amazon Prime. That's for suckers as far as
I'm concerned. Shipping was free. I paid exactly $19.99 - and no more -
for it.

> You bought it 3 years ago, which is very relevant if the reader is
> considering purchasing the device.

Meh. The person I was responding to was "sms", who also purchased his
previously for much more than $19.99.

> Thanks (again) for providing substantiation. That helps separate the
> facts from the fabrications.

Yes. Note that I haven't fabricated anything in this thread. Arlen under
his many nyms and others, not so much - starting with the laughable
claim that Apple devices can't use cheap OBD2 devices, which is what
prompted my replies in this thread in the first place. : )

>>Not that I need you to believe me. I bought it. I have it. I've used
>>it for years with multiple cars and Apple devices without issue. It's
>>a great little OBD2 adapter that I will continue to use, happily. And
>>what some rando on the net has to say about it won't change a thing.
>
> I never suggested otherwise. I did mention the device I was using
> along with its limitations. If some "rando" on the net offers an
> alternative, it would be of little importance to you, but might be
> useful to someone reading this thread.
>
>>And of course as usual, Arlen (aka: Robin Goodfellow and a slew of
>>other nyms here) is a complete know-nothing loser and fool whose
>>entire life is spent trolling. : )
>
> Whatever.

Yes, I'm sure his trolling activities in the Apple newsgroups isn't a
concern to some people - especially those who have a tiny, little Apple
hate boner and like seeing Apple newsgroups disrupted by them.
Nevertheless, I will continue to point it out when I see it. That's
life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> Gone to the post office to pickup some chainsaw parts, which might be
> useful for an upcoming WiFi network install.

Whatever. : )

[nospam]

In article <sgjkkb$l0m$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> One advantage of the Carista is that it's BLE so you can use it with
> iPhone OBD-II apps as well as with Android. Prior to that you had to use
> a Wi-Fi ELM-327 OBD-II adapter to use with iPhone, and those were a lot
> more expensive than the Bluetooth ELM-327 OBD-II adapters.

the wifi versions were not significantly more expensive and they were
not the only option either.

> Another advantage of the Carista is that their premium subscription
> offers manufacturer-specific information for some vehicle manufacturers.

that is an advantage.

> Unfortunately, the Torque Pro app is only on Android, and while there
> apps with similar functionality for iOS, they aren't as good as Torque
> Pro

some apps are as good and some are even better.

> There's another issue with the el-cheapo ELM-327 adapters as well, some
> of them can really screw up the ECU. It's been a common issue on
> Priuses

no, that isn't a common issue nor is it specific to elm327 either.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> asked
>>Well, he knows nothing about OBD2 and iOS if he's claiming it doesn't
>>work better on iOS than on Android, that's for sure.
>
> Are you sure I wrote that?

(Jeff... Please see the personal note in the sig. Thanks.)

As a curious and sensibly logical person, what I want to know is why.

Why is it that _only_ iOS is so crippled that it lacks _all_ these things?

I don't know why.

Do you?

What's interesting is they claim I said OBDII wasn't on iOS and I never said
that either. I was using it as a hypothetical example but they have _no_
defense to Apple flaws that they distorted what I clearly had said (or
they're so stupid that they actually can't comprehend the language used).

What's common is in their desperation to defend that the iPhone is crippled,
they just make this shit up, mainly as a deflection against the fact of the
major topic which is why basic wi-fi graphical debuggers aren't on iOS (but
yet, they're on _all_ other of the five common consumer operating systems).

There could only be very few reasons why iOS is crippled when it comes to
graphical wifi debugging though... which is the part that interests me.

Why?
Why is it _only_ iOS is so crippled when it comes to actually doing things?

*Why just iOS?*
It's not even the macOS which is so crippled.
Just iOS.

*Why iOS only that is crippled?*

It can't be that "nobody wants to do it" which is the argument they often
spout, nor that "it's there, but you can't find it" which is, surprisingly,
their most common defense (their defense, like Apple's, is to just lie).

Perhaps it's likely the same reason why iOS is crippled when it comes to
_lots_ of utilities common to _all_ other common consumer operating systems
(recorders, launchers, debuggers, firewalls, adblockers, defaults, TOR,
etc.).

Why is it that _only_ iOS is so crippled that it lacks _all_ these things?
--
PS: Jeff. There is a local group forming right now in the mountains to
complain about local PG&E shenanigans, which I'm sure you're aware of (our
electrical power went out 8 times for a day each in the month of August
alone!). If you want to be on that local group, just let me know here and
I'll tell the group organizer to invite you. You actually know him as he
runs a WISP you are very familiar with and whom I'm sure you respect.

[Robin Goodfellow]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> asked
>> Really? Where do you get your information/education?
>
> from writing mobile apps that do exactly what i described.

Bear in mind nospam claimed Android doesn't have app drawer apps.
That's how much he knows about Android.

He has claimed that Android doesn't update frequently (where nospam has no
clue about Project Treble and Project Mainline for example).

He's clueless about Android but more importantly nospam doesn't even know
anything about iOS as he's been wrong on almost everything he claims.

For example, nospam claimed iOS has graphical wifi debuggers.
Yet he can _never_ come up with even a single one in the app store!

Never.
Not even one.

And it's not just graphical wifi debugging tools nospam fabricates exists...
He fabricates existence of imaginary encryption container tools, and
imaginary automatic call recording tools, and imaginary system wide foss
firewalls, and imaginary system wide foss ad blockers, and imaginary gps
spoofing by default, and imaginary fully functional foss ad free youtube
clones, and imaginary powerful IPA backup tools, and nospam even fabricated
that the FOSS Tor Browser anonymity tools exist on iOS when it can't.

All lies.
*Nobody lies like Apple lies* & concurrently, nobody lies like nospam lies.

But my question is why is it _only_ iOS that is so badly crippled?

[Lewis]

In message <300820211924210915%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <sgjkkb$l0m$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>> One advantage of the Carista is that it's BLE so you can use it with
>> iPhone OBD-II apps as well as with Android. Prior to that you had to use
>> a Wi-Fi ELM-327 OBD-II adapter to use with iPhone, and those were a lot
>> more expensive than the Bluetooth ELM-327 OBD-II adapters.

> the wifi versions were not significantly more expensive and they were
> not the only option either.

sms is, of course, lying again. I had one of the Automatic OBDII dongles
and it did not use WiFi, but used BlueTooth.

--
The "H" in Jesus H Christ comes from "Harold be Thy name" in the
Lord's Prayer.

[Robin Goodfellow]

RabidHussar <ra...@huss.ar> asked
>> In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
>> cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
>> (that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).
>
> That honesty sounds awesome to me. I would love to be so isolated from
> everyone else around me. :)

It's good and bad being up in the mountains in the middle of nowhere.
(Jeff is nearby so he knows what it's like to have all this fresh air.)

We're 16 miles from the nearest gas station, and about 30 miles from the
Costco cheap ones, so we have to plan ahead on groceries. We all have our
own water wells and septic and propane and WISP utilities, since nothing
comes to us over the ground but power and telephone (just like in the
50s'!).

Speaking of power on the poles, our PG&E electric power goes out once a
month for about a day each over a period of five or six years, but lately
it's gone out twice a week for the entire month of August, so we have to get
good at dealing with spikes and backups and switching to the generators,
etc.

Luckily, our carrier gives all of us free cellular repeaters and/or
femtocells, so we can get cellular signal even with towers rather far away
although I must say that with 5G, we've had _fantastic_ signal up here!
https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg

Also we get a _lot_ of tourists, bikers, hikers, and sightseers, who can't
seem to stay on their side of the road (there are no stripes as the roads
are legally too narrow for such amenities). Every once in a while we get to
watch the helicopters pull out the pot farm produce and we get to see the
big trucks winch a car back up from deep in the chaparral.

The good news is the airplanes fly _below_ us when they come in to land, and
the clouds are often below us too, so we get a lot of clean air & sunlight.

One thing we have in mountains is clear line of sight for hundreds of miles,
so we can "see" oh, maybe a thousand or two thousand access points with the
right equipment, and where my own access point is about 3 miles away or so.
https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg
(Jeff can tell ua why it says 6 miles.)

Given we have to get our Internet over the air somehow, we're all very good
at debugging our radios, where I don't know anyone on Android who doesn't
use these wifi debuggers a lot.
https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg

And since we all have our own cellular towers inside our homes (I have two
of them since I have a big house), we also get good at cellular signal
debugging.
https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg

With Cellular-Z, for example, I can see EXACTLY which cell I'm on:
https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg

And when I move around my two internal in-home towers, I can adjust things:
https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg

None of this is possible with the crippled Apple iPhone ecosystem.
It's a toy OS that only people who play games seem to love.

>> This means we have antennas everywhere, to the barn, the stable, the shed,
>> the pool, the driveway gate, the road gate, etc. where debuggers are useful.
>
> I'll just assume that your OTA television reception isn't too good,
> being surrounded by mountains and all.

What we do is use the Internet and often "sticks" such as a Roku to get
whatever we want, although most of us had satellite TV & Dish TV in the
past.

At this point, with our Ubiquiti equipment, we have the full legal limit on
transmit and we have fantastic receiver sensitivity so we're doing OK for
now (we also have all the free noise waterfall curves that no phone has).
https://www.google.com/search?q=ubiquiti+waterfall+curve+images

>> It's not a question of whether the iPhone is a crippled platform or not.
>> The main question is what or who is it that cripples the iPhone so much?
>
> I've already determined that I'm not a fan of Apple's walled garden even
> though I admire the way that they push innovation compared to everyone
> else.

You're joking right?
Apple? Innovation?

What? Removing the headphone jack? That's innovation?
<https://youtu.be/oJZuSVl5wjM>

Never having an sd card slot? That's innovation?
No FM radio? That's innovation?

The iPhone is a cripple (yes, I have plenty of iOS devices).
With iOS, you can't do even the simplest of the most basic things.

Like organize your homescreen the way _you_ want it organized.
https://i.postimg.cc/WpM4FM5t/web01.jpg

But more to the point, basic debugging with iOS doesn't even exist!
https://i.postimg.cc/3r0yNRcT/network02.jpg

The Apple iphone ecosystem will _always_ be crippled compared to Android.
The reason is very simple and has nothing to do with "innovation".

Apple drastically limits what the iPhone can do; Google can't.
It's that simple.

Apple doesn't innovate - Apple _advertises_ that they do.
But Apple has _never_ made a chip that wasn't unfixably flawed too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+unfixable+chip+flaws

The _market_ determines the app functionality, not Apple or Google.
And the market _provides_ the innovation - not Apple or Google.

Hell, Apple has _never_ made an SOC that was even close to best in class.
Apple can't even make a simple modem for heavens sake.

And Apple can't even _integrate_ a modem into the rest of their SOC.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+can%27t+integrate+modem

Don't talk about innovation if you're getting it from a Jony Ive commercial.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.internet.wireless/c/G72EDGvUiuE

Apple bullshits like nobody else can - so that's where you get "innovation".

*Nobody spends _less_ percentagewise than Apple in R&D* by the way. Nobody.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+spends+less+R%26D

That's "Apple's" bullshit innovation for you.
All _marketing_ and almost nothing in actual R&D.

Please don't use the word "innovation" please, when you're discussing what
amounts to a crippled device which can't do even the simplest of the most
basic stuff (such as debug wifi and cellular radios, which is the topic here
and which I do all the time but it can't be done on the crippled iPhones).

BTW, if you want some screenshots of how we debug in the mountains, see:
<https://i.postimg.cc/05S6CtNn/align03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NYJn7mF/nanobridge-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25NdBZ7f/horn-to-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25v3FT6S/debug-on-android.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QJqK6Cj/desktop02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QQ2Lt74/align02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/905nFgxX/nanobeamnanobridge.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/bNMMZ0Nv/wifi-speed.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bv0wZbDh/pbe-m2-400-802-11-wifi-setting.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/BZrZpDyp/debug-apps.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/cHLndnbY/antenna.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLBXc080/antenna03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/D0vfqM3p/horns.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/DfQJq437/mikrotikrouter.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/DZccY2YD/decibels.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Dzq9Bsjs/pb-m2-400-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/FRqR6DSq/android-wifi-analyzer.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/gcBWpxnV/pbe-m2-400-bridge-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gh22Sb2N/desktop.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/GpCG1H3G/airviewneedsjava.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/htQ469sQ/pbe-m2-400-ap-station.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JhyCRT69/horn-to-switch.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JzpthvTr/align04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/kg5LKkz9/pbe-m2-400-airmax-setting.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrkz5mgs/antenna01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/pLXCzFxC/powerbeam-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMNv5FBC/typical-range-ptp.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2c2L8Wd/mikrotik-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfkHW6WG/align.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/SK04C6zL/ubiquiti-bullet-M2-hp.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/tCxLW2ZN/align01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/vT0Krpfc/laptop-nanobeam-horn.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/yNXw0TZS/antenna02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/yx4CgWYt/mikrotik-router-config.jpg>
<https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketdish/rd_ds_web.pdf
<https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketm/RocketM_DS.pdf

Try to do _any_ of that debugging with the crippled iPhone.