Re: FCC ID Number Vendors
Jeff Liebermann
<badm...@lostfile.org> wrote:
>I know this has been answered before, but I cannot remember the answer,
>nor can I find the file, nor does it show up in a cursory search.
>
>Are vendors required to supply prospective customers with FCC ID numbers
>on request for the radios they are selling. If so, can someone point me
>to the reg or law on this?
>
>Thanks much.
Wireless devices (and all electronic contrivances) are required to
pass Part 15 radiation requirements, before being allowed to be sold
in the USA. The FCC ID number is to be inscribed on the serial number
tag of the device. FCC 2.925 and 15.19 covers labeling requirements:
"...the FCC identifier or the unique identifier, as appropriate,
must be displayed on the device."
<http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/PART15_07-10-08.pdf>
If you're buying a radio that lacks the proper serial number tag and
FCC ID, it's probably not legal.
More detail on labeling requirements:
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=27980&switch=P>
I've run into difficulties with importers of Chinese commercial radios
that lack certification. Some have contrived or borrowed ID numbers,
so it pays to check the number.
<http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
LR
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:22:10 +0000 (UTC), badmemory
> <badm...@lostfile.org> wrote:
>
>> I know this has been answered before, but I cannot remember the answer,
>> nor can I find the file, nor does it show up in a cursory search.
>>
>> Are vendors required to supply prospective customers with FCC ID numbers
>> on request for the radios they are selling. If so, can someone point me
>> to the reg or law on this?
>>
>> Thanks much.
>
> Wireless devices (and all electronic contrivances) are required to
> pass Part 15 radiation requirements, before being allowed to be sold
> in the USA. The FCC ID number is to be inscribed on the serial number
> tag of the device. FCC 2.925 and 15.19 covers labeling requirements:
> "...the FCC identifier or the unique identifier, as appropriate,
> must be displayed on the device."
> <http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/PART15_07-10-08.pdf>
> If you're buying a radio that lacks the proper serial number tag and
> FCC ID, it's probably not legal.
I think the OP is more interested in obtaining the FCC ID before
purchasing and whether the Vendor is legally obliged to provide him with
that information if he requests it.
Looking at the 2.295 it would appear that only items covered by 15.101
would have that requirement.
"(4) For a transceiver, the receiver portion of which is subject to
verification pursuant to § 15.101 of this chapter, the FCC Identifier
required for the transmitter portion shall be preceded by the term FCC
ID .
(c) [Reserved]
(d) In order to validate the grant of equipment authorization, the
nameplate or label shall be permanently affixed to the equipment and
shall be readily visible to the purchaser at the time of purchase."
>
> More detail on labeling requirements:
> <http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=27980&switch=P>
>
> I've run into difficulties with importers of Chinese commercial radios
> that lack certification. Some have contrived or borrowed ID numbers,
> so it pays to check the number.
> <http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/>
>
>
>
>
My RT2870 USB adapter is so small, approx 30mm, that it doesn't really
comply with the fixed label requirement, but as I live in the UK it
doesn't matter. It has an adhesive label, which keeps dropping off,
attached to the antenna.
badmemory
Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:t5m7v4p87sin6th1p...@4ax.com:
Mark McIntyre
> Jeff Liebermann<je...@cruzio.com> wrote in
> news:t5m7v4p87sin6th1p...@4ax.com:
>
> number and
The first part of Jeff's answer makes clear that if they sell stuff in
the US, they must put the FCC ID on the case. Failure to do so would
result in withdrawal of license and fines.
> the urls you give don't answer the OP question.
If you have an FCC ID, you can look it up in the last entry to confirm
its valid.
msg
<snip>
> The first part of Jeff's answer makes clear that if they sell stuff in
> the US, they must put the FCC ID on the case. Failure to do so would
> result in withdrawal of license and fines.
>
> > the urls you give don't answer the OP question.
Recently I tried to get 'Airhogs' to reveal any FCC data for certain
RC toys; they replied that they self-certified Part 15 compliance and
have no OET application or supporting documents on file for the
products and have no corresponding FCC ID number.
Sometimes, as the OP has learned, there is no FCC ID.
Michael
Mark McIntyre
I'd suggest that "airhogs" should get reported to the FCC in that case...
LR
> Recently I tried to get 'Airhogs' to reveal any FCC data for certain
> RC toys; they replied that they self-certified Part 15 compliance and
> have no OET application or supporting documents on file for the
> products and have no corresponding FCC ID number.
>
> Sometimes, as the OP has learned, there is no FCC ID.
>
> Michael
Airhogs is a subsidiary of Spin Master whose FCC ID prefix is PQN.
Mark McIntyre
> original poster is referring to products that are marketed on the web
> and elsewhere, NOT products in hand after purchase, which display NO
> user ID.
Perhaps we were "ignoring" it because the OP didn't make it clear. I'm
also unclear what the OP's reason was for wanting to know. I guess you'd
want to know the FCC ID because you want to check legality or something?
Has the OP come back in this thread?
Jeff Liebermann
>What you and Jeff are ignoring throughout this entire thread is that the
>original poster is referring to products that are marketed on the web
>and elsewhere, NOT products in hand after purchase, which display NO
>user ID. The original question remains unanswered, either by you or
>anyone else here.
The FCC does not distinguish between incidental radiators that are
sold, gifted, donated, or otherwise used within the US borders.
Somewhere in the rules and regs (I'm too lazy to look) is an itemized
list of all the possible buzzwords that qualify for an item to be
"sold" in the USA. I'm fairly sure that sold over the internet
qualifies for inclusion as being "offered for sale". Once qualified
the item must be clearly labeled in accordance with FCC 2.925 and
15.19, which includes the applicable FCC ID number.
Re-reading the original question, it possible that the OP is asking if
the FCC ID number must be on the outside packaging or otherwise
prominently displayed on the advertising literature, web pile, or data
sheet. Apparently, this is not the case. The radio must be labeled,
not the packaging, literature, data sheet, etc.
The reason the FCC originally provided the FCC ID search site was to
comply with a court ruling that demanded that such information be
public BEFORE being offered for sale. They really didn't want to do
it as back in the stone age of BBS dialup access, it was a rather
expensive and time consuming exercise. There was also a problem that
a product might have several FCC ID numbers and revisions, which would
produce a labeling problem. Providing the necessary information via
the internet was deemed easier that dealing with the labeling problem.
There are a substantial number of radios offered for sale on eBay that
have not been tested for incidental radiation and do no comply with
any FCC regulations. Ostensively, they are being offered for sale
outside of the USA and therefore do not require FCC certification.
However, they seem to be appearing more and more in place of certified
commercial radios. I recently had to do an impromptu troubleshooting
exercise on some RF related issues with some handheld radios at a
sporting event. The radios were from China, had no serial number tag,
no FCC ID, and were little better than junk. However, as they were
owned by a charity, I could see their logic as they cost about 1/5th
that of a real radio. I'll leave this as a problem for someone else
to solve.
Also, please note that having FCC certification does not somehow imply
that the product is reliable or suitable for the intended purpose.
I've seen some fairly awful designs, that managed to pass Part 15, but
don't work very well.
Jeff Liebermann
>In your opinion, does that obligate USA sellers on the web to cough up the
>FCC ID number of their radios on request?
The way I read the FCC rules, the manufacturers are required to label
their devices with the FCC ID number and such. There is no clause
requiring pre-sale disclosure. There is also no penalty for doing so.
It's yet another example of a "problem" with the way the FCC rules
were written. Pre-sale disclosure should be required, as should the
FCC ID on any advertising literature, manuals, etc.
>I looked at the FCC web site urls
>you gave and could find nothing that addressed this specifically among all
>their gobbledy gook language which, without a team of Pickwick lawyers is
>impossible to decipher.
Yep. Reading the FCC rules and regs gives me a headache. However,
they're much easier reading than the IEEE 802.11(a-z) specifications,
which have been known to induce a state closely resembling confusion.
However, don't worry, it's not fatal.
> Also they don't answer their emails.
Sure they do. You just need to know whom to ask. However, I suggest
you reconsider asking the FCC for an informed opinion. I frequently
get either the "wrong" answer, that I don't want to hear, or a wild
guess based upon nothing better than a wild guess.
>This seems to imply that the answer to the question above is "yes" but
>again, nothing definitive one way or another.
Exactly. I try to be very specific and exact, about things that are
vague and uncertain.
>Ok so this is just another implied rule that is never enforced, so what the
>FCC says really does not matter.
Nope. They do enforce the labeling requirements. Welcome to the FCC
Enforcement Burro:
<http://www.fcc.gov/eb/>
A look at the most recent headlines kinda shows the FCC's direction.
Find the trivial and fine them:
<http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Headlines.html>
There was some recent "importation of non-compliant" devices in the EB
list, but I'm too lazy to dig for the references. Still, it's not too
difficult to find radios that lack type certification on eBay.
>Or is it one of these things they do
>nothing about until someone complains?
Nope. Other than revenue enhancement actions, the *ONLY* complaints
that the FCC acts on are those that involve terrorism. The Burro of
Homeland Security controls enforcement funds. If the complaint
doesn't get there attention, nothing happens. I've had some personal
experience with such nonsense. I were having problems with fishermen
using channels that landed on ham frequencies. Nothing happened until
they landed on a local police channel (which is a valid marine channel
in Holland). Even the police couldn't get the FCC's attention, so I
convinced them to mention to the FCC that these fishermen might be
terrorists practicing for some attack by jamming the police
frequencies. Obviously baloney, but we were able to get one FCC
monitoring van to hang around for about 30 minutes, and then drive
away. Of course, that was in the afternoon, which was a waste of
effort as the fishermen are only active in the early morning. Welcome
to the post 911 FCC.
Admittedly, if Motorola complains about the sale of non-certified
radios, there will be some sort of action. However, it will mostly
likely occur only after Motorola contributes to the politically
correct campaign fund.
>Follow the yellow brick road to get
>an answer on this, maybe the WIZARD can return us to Kansa where things
>make sense.
Maybe Dorothy and Toto are running the FCC and we never noticed? Pay
no attention to the computer behind the curtain.