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Sam

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Oct 16, 2003, 9:07:48 PM10/16/03
to
Want to get tons of free pr5, pr6, and pr7 back links for your website?
Then all you have to do is post like mad to blogs, the newest google
rage on the internet. It's free for the taking too because google is
over ranking blogs giving these amateurish pages elevated pr6, 7, 8 you
nam eit, simply because they own blogs.

Look for blogs that have comment tags that you can post your url at, not
all of them do, and they have to be at least a pr5 on up and with blogs
that's a breeze to find.

Also don't believe the bullshit people here will tell you about blog
owners cracking down on comments at their blogs. It's a lie they are
telling you because they don't want to share this secret with you. They
are posting their urls right now at comments at blogs like there's no
tommorrow.

Niel Drummond

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Oct 16, 2003, 11:09:10 PM10/16/03
to
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:07:48 +0000, wrote:
> They
> are posting their urls right now at comments at blogs like there's no
> tommorrow.

and their links rapidly get diluted. not a sure-fire way, I would imagine.

- n

Brothermark

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Oct 17, 2003, 9:09:55 AM10/17/03
to

> > They
> > are posting their urls right now at comments at blogs like there's no
> > tommorrow.
>
> and their links rapidly get diluted. not a sure-fire way, I would imagine.

yeah its better to get on somebody's links page that will stay the same way
for years and years.
blogs are always changing, your backlink will disappear

Sam

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Oct 17, 2003, 12:49:45 PM10/17/03
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So what if the back links dissapear as long as you keep doing new ones
to replace them all the time. Theer's so many pr7 and pr8 blogs out
therew ith comment tags you could never run out of them and it onlt
takes a few seconds to post.

John A.

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Nov 13, 2003, 5:43:02 PM11/13/03
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Sam

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Nov 13, 2003, 11:35:32 PM11/13/03
to

It made more tha the AP wires as blog comment spam has risen through
the roof since I did those posts! It is working and I will keep fighting
google's artificially high page ranking of the blog companies they own!
ven if it means destroying blog and google credibility.

SEO Dave

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Nov 14, 2003, 1:00:30 AM11/14/03
to
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:35:32 GMT, Sam <.@mail.com> wrote:

>It made more tha the AP wires as blog comment spam has risen through
>the roof since I did those posts! It is working and I will keep fighting
>google's artificially high page ranking of the blog companies they own!
>ven if it means destroying blog and google credibility.

Comment spam was already a major problem for Bloggers way before you
mentioned it here.

Do you really believe you made so much of a difference to result in
news :-))

It was obvious this would happen since the same occurred with
Guestbooks and anywhere else you can post a link for free.

David
_
Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 10/10/2003)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ooar123/search-engine-optimization/

Sam

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Nov 14, 2003, 6:09:59 AM11/14/03
to
Seo Dave:
So you think guestbook don't give back links do you? Well in that case
just to proove you wrong check out the back links from this website:
http://www.echooo.com (you will see mostly guestbooks giving back links
and I hope this answers all your questions from both posts.

SEO Dave

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Nov 14, 2003, 12:03:44 PM11/14/03
to

As I've said before google has recently started ignoring Guestbooks as
backlinks, so it's understandable there are still some less well known
guestbooks counting as backlinks.

Long term though I wouldn't base a business around them!!

Sam

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Nov 14, 2003, 12:53:28 PM11/14/03
to

There are thousands of guestbooks that I know of that google still takes
back links for. It has nothing to do with google banning guestbooks.
Google doesn't care where your links come from. It has to do with the
page coding the guestbook host has that is preventing their guestbooks
being back linked at google.

What's more your sexy lingerie site would be a pr8 right now if you also
did guestbook, memberlist, and blog posts instead of dropping to a pr6
as it has. (it was a pr7 last month). You're becoming too ethical and
that is stopping you from doing better than you can. It's rediculous
since creating tons of internal links, as you do, is also un-ethical so
what's your problem dude with guestbooks and anything else for links?

SEO Dave

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Nov 14, 2003, 4:44:41 PM11/14/03
to
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:53:28 GMT, Sam <.@mail.com> wrote:

>There are thousands of guestbooks that I know of that google still takes
>back links for. It has nothing to do with google banning guestbooks.
>Google doesn't care where your links come from. It has to do with the
>page coding the guestbook host has that is preventing their guestbooks
>being back linked at google.

Hi,

Yes you are right that any page that google treats as a backlink
helps, but recently a lot of guestbooks that used to be treated as
backlinks have stopped showing as backlinks. And current consensus is
google has started ignoring some guestbook links.

About a year ago I posted a fair amount to guestbooks, they are all
but gone as backlinks (the links are still there, just not counted).

So yes you can find guestbooks that will currently pass on PR, but
realistically it's only matter of time before Google removes more of
them.

>What's more your sexy lingerie site would be a pr8 right now if you also
>did guestbook, memberlist, and blog posts instead of dropping to a pr6
>as it has. (it was a pr7 last month).

If you mean if I spammed the hell out of everything I'd have more PR
yes I would, though realistically it would be a high PR7 at best and
it would take a lot of time.

>You're becoming too ethical and
>that is stopping you from doing better than you can.

You assume too much, when it comes to making money I lower my ethics
considerably. What I don't have though is unlimited time and so I put
my time where I believe long term it will produce most rewards and
right now I don't see spamming blogs, guestbooks etc... giving long
term rewards.

If your interested my time is currently going on site improvement to
increase traffic conversion, since with 5000 visitors a day I don't
need more traffic, I need more sales from this traffic.

>It's rediculous
>since creating tons of internal links, as you do, is also un-ethical so
>what's your problem dude with guestbooks and anything else for links?

LOL, the pages on the site also serve a purpose so aren't spam. And
when the new site design is finished they will serve a necessary
function, since the new design has smaller images on the main pages
and the large images only on the individual product pages.

Sam

unread,
Nov 14, 2003, 4:58:25 PM11/14/03
to
SEO Dave wrote:
>
> Yes you are right that any page that google treats as a backlink
> helps, but recently a lot of guestbooks that used to be treated as
> backlinks have stopped showing as backlinks. And current consensus is
> google has started ignoring some guestbook links.
>
Again google does not ignore nor ban sites. The owners of the guestbook
are the ones that create that problem. They run code at their guestbook
so google doesn't pick up the guestbook as a back link.

>
> About a year ago I posted a fair amount to guestbooks, they are all
> but gone as backlinks (the links are still there, just not counted).
>

Yes guestbooks, memberlists etc are short term things and have to be
regularly posted to. Internal pages at your own site stay around as long
as you have the short term links to keep your site's pr high enough to
support pr4+ internal pages which the min pr needed for them to work as
back links. Seo is a combonation of short term and long term linking
creation. Both are equally as time consuming and hard to do. there's no
escape I'm afraid that. The only time I ever escaped it for a couple of
years was when I was an editor at dmoz. Those were the easy lazy years
of seo for me.


>
> If you mean if I spammed the hell out of everything I'd have more PR
> yes I would, though realistically it would be a high PR7 at best and
> it would take a lot of time.
>

Hey I'll do the spamming posts to memberlists, blogs, guestbooks for
sexy lingerie if you pay me enough!


>
> LOL, the pages on the site also serve a purpose so aren't spam. And
> when the new site design is finished they will serve a necessary
> function, since the new design has smaller images on the main pages
> and the large images only on the individual product pages.
>

Come one be real. We both know you wouldn't have 500 pages at a website
if it wasn't for the way google does it. At least I admit it. ~Sam

Tim Arnold

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Nov 15, 2003, 12:57:30 AM11/15/03
to
> As I've said before google has recently started ignoring Guestbooks as
> backlinks, so it's understandable there are still some less well known
> guestbooks counting as backlinks.

No offense but "some less well known" ???

I think I get your point but Sam makes a good one too.

How can the google computers see these and not throw the baby out with
the bathwater?

We can punch these sites up and see the obvious spam that is going on
and yet we cant figure out why the machines at google cant see them
too.

You have to program the machines to ferret out the spam and quite
frankly I dont think the good folks over at google have figured that
one out yet.

Tim

SEO Dave

unread,
Nov 15, 2003, 9:15:18 AM11/15/03
to
On 14 Nov 2003 21:57:30 -0800, vgo_...@yahoo.com (Tim Arnold) wrote:

>No offense but "some less well known" ???

If you didn't follow what I meant by that then try finding a site that
has this PR7 guestbook page as a backlink-

http://www.scriptarchive.com/demos/guestbook/guestbook.html

This gets reset daily (it's the demo of the GB) and is spammed daily.
It used to count towards backlinks, now it doesn't.

This guestbook script is used on a LOT of sites and so could
potentially create a lot of high PR sites for GB spammers.

Google search this "Guestbook created by Matt Wright" and try to find
the guestbook page (the one where your links would show, tends to be
called guestbook.html).

Find a few that's PR5 and start looking at the links that have been
there for a few months minimum (these should be indexed). Load the
sites up and check their backlinks, can you find the guestbook.html
page as a backlink?

The only ones I can find that act as backlinks are those that have
been disabled. This suggests Google is looking for something unique to
this guestbook script and editing the script or html page
guestbook.html results in it getting past the filter (this doesn't
help a spammer though).

Here's an example-

http://www.thevansickles.com/guestbook.html PR5

Here's a very clear one-

http://www.junkeater.com/examples/guestbook.html PR5

The Test link is to a page on the same site and is indexed and treated
as a backlink, the other two links aren't.

Conclusion this Guestbook in it's working form is ignored by Google as
backlinks, except when the link is to a page on the same domain.

>I think I get your point but Sam makes a good one too.

He is currently correct that spamming blogs, memberlists and SOME
guestbooks will benefit a site. The question should be is it worth the
time spent with Google obviously taking an interest in preventing it's
results manipulation.

I see more guestbooks being removed and memberlists to forums next.
Then we'll be left with blogs and I don't see an easy way for google
to factor those in easily like they can with Guestbooks and
memberlists.

>How can the google computers see these and not throw the baby out with
>the bathwater?
>
>We can punch these sites up and see the obvious spam that is going on
>and yet we cant figure out why the machines at google cant see them
>too.

They have done a good job with Matt's Guestbooks which is one small
step in the right direction.

>You have to program the machines to ferret out the spam and quite
>frankly I dont think the good folks over at google have figured that
>one out yet.
>
>Tim

Spam is subjective and so difficult to program for, but removing one
type of page from the PR calculation isn't difficult and from what I
see they have the balance right. If a Guestbook links to a page on the
same site it counts towards PR etc... so the flow of PR isn't
prevented. But spammers now receive no PR benefits from a lot of
popular guestbooks.

I would say it is no longer worth the effort to post to guestbooks,
since the more popular they become more likely they are to be removed
from the PR calculation.

Sam

unread,
Nov 15, 2003, 1:41:50 PM11/15/03
to
SEO Dave wrote:
>
> The only ones I can find that act as backlinks are those that have
> been disabled. This suggests Google is looking for something unique to
> this guestbook script and editing the script or html page
> guestbook.html results in it getting past the filter (this doesn't
> help a spammer though).
>
Try searching for guestbooks that end in .asp or the french ones that
end in .lvre or something like that in French. There are thousands of
them and they all provide real back links that are counted. Also many
php ones work fine too. The html ones mostly no longer work as back
links but not because google filtered them out but because they contain
script that prevents them being counted by google. Memberlists are
constantly going up and down in pr so a 6pr list now could turn to a pr0
and then go back to a pr6 again which is why you need to post to a lot
more than you actually need. Over-kill works here.

As far as guestbooks, blog comments, memberlists being the easy way to
get pr you've got to be kidding? They're every bit as hard as creating
more dummy pages at a website. Unless you're getting totally carried
away and making these great looking pages for your dummy pages which
would be a total waste of time. I have 10 websites each with 100 dummy
pages so far. The dummy pages all link to each other and back to the
home page and homepage to them. The links are the same but only the
content is different and there's very little content on all 100 pages
(about one small paragraph and the content has nothing to do with the
site). Every page is a pr5 with the main being a pr6. It wasn't any
harder to do than posting to guestbooks, lists, blogs just different. I
view one type of link as internal and the other as external and I think
both are neccessary.

I also know something that you don't know about your site. You were
listed at some high pr memberlists and you have lost your place at them.
It takes months some times for google to catch up on that which is why
you slipped back to a pr6 from a 7 and you may slip back to a 5 soon if
you don't do something about it. If you slip back to a 5 the way your
site linking is structured (hierarchal) you will lose many of your
internal site links and then you'll really be in trouble. Better learn
to love memberlists, blog coments, guestbooks my friend because they are
here to stay. Only sites that have actual interesting content or are
very popular can get away without all the stuff most seo's have to put
up with. Your site is nice but I see no genuine interest by the genral
public in sexy lingerie not enough to make it easy for you.

SEO Dave

unread,
Nov 15, 2003, 7:47:55 PM11/15/03
to
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:41:50 GMT, Sam <.@mail.com> wrote:

>Try searching for guestbooks that end in .asp or the french ones that
>end in .lvre or something like that in French. There are thousands of
>them and they all provide real back links that are counted. Also many
>php ones work fine too.

Hi,

As I said some guestbooks still work. Question is how long will they
work, I think the more popular ones will be removed one by one as
Google gets around to it.

>The html ones mostly no longer work as back
>links but not because google filtered them out but because they contain
>script that prevents them being counted by google.

Sorry Sam, but your wrong. Reread my last post and you'll see these
Guestbook pages do show as backlinks, but only for internal pages
(same domain). I don't see how a script could achieve this, since
backlinks are under googles control not the Guestbooks

>Memberlists are
>constantly going up and down in pr so a 6pr list now could turn to a pr0
>and then go back to a pr6 again which is why you need to post to a lot
>more than you actually need. Over-kill works here.

Got the T-Shirt :-))

>As far as guestbooks, blog comments, memberlists being the easy way to
>get pr you've got to be kidding?

I've never said it's easy, that's why I'm steering away from temporary
solutions like these. That said if I came across a PR9 guestbook page
etc... I'd be the first to post a link on it.

>They're every bit as hard as creating
>more dummy pages at a website.

I have no 'dummy pages'. Every page I create has a function other than
for SEO, I don't create pages just to have pages.

>Unless you're getting totally carried
>away and making these great looking pages for your dummy pages which
>would be a total waste of time. I have 10 websites each with 100 dummy
>pages so far. The dummy pages all link to each other and back to the
>home page and homepage to them.

Nothing wrong with the above, although I wouldn't link to pointless
pages from the homepage. Would make more sense to point to those pages
with your blogs etc...

>The links are the same but only the
>content is different and there's very little content on all 100 pages
>(about one small paragraph and the content has nothing to do with the
>site).

That is a problem, if you are going to create a page give it a
function. I found a plain text masturbation FAQ somewhere so decided
to update it to HTML, put it on my site and point it to relevant
pages.

http://www.adultlingerieuk.com/faqs/masturbation-faq/

It's not 6 dummy pages (as you put it) just to create/redistribute PR,
but serves a function. People do find my site when searching for
phrases like masturbation faq (2nd place in Google).

I've not got around to promoting it yet, when I do I'll probably stick
it on a sub domain and break the pages up a bit (more pages and yes
those are to benefit the site as a whole).

The above is a simple html version of the FAQ and I'm sure someone
will link to it eventually, giving the site some more PR etc...

Knew I forgot something in the recent update, was going to add a FAQs
section to the site.

> Every page is a pr5 with the main being a pr6. It wasn't any
>harder to do than posting to guestbooks, lists, blogs just different. I
>view one type of link as internal and the other as external and I think
>both are neccessary.

The above will help your home page, but might piss off any visitors
that find your site through those pages since they are spam. Much
better to create something useful. Yes it takes time, but the benefits
are long term and additive. The more good content you have more people
will link to your site naturally.

>I also know something that you don't know about your site.

I very much doubt that :-)

>You were
>listed at some high pr memberlists and you have lost your place at them.

I knew this already.

>It takes months some times for google to catch up on that which is why
>you slipped back to a pr6 from a 7 and you may slip back to a 5 soon if
>you don't do something about it.

I'm not that concerned about total PR, the recent drop from PR7 to PR6
made little to difference to total visitor numbers, actually they went
up a little.

>If you slip back to a 5 the way your
>site linking is structured (hierarchal) you will lose many of your
>internal site links and then you'll really be in trouble.

You still don't understand backlinks and which links count towards PR
and which do not. All because Google only shows a couple of hundred of
the pages linking to the home page of the Lingerie site as back links,
it doesn't mean the remaining 5000 links (as shown in alltheweb)
aren't counted in the PR calculation. Believe me they are. Last update
backlinks dropped from around 800 to the current 200 odd.

>Better learn
>to love memberlists, blog coments, guestbooks my friend because they are
>here to stay.

I'd say the opposite, but if you have the time to put into good luck
to you.

> Only sites that have actual interesting content or are
>very popular can get away without all the stuff most seo's have to put
>up with. Your site is nice but I see no genuine interest by the genral
>public in sexy lingerie not enough to make it easy for you.

Because it's adult it's a lot harder to market than say a kids toy
shop. Just means thinking on your feet and making opportunities. The
site gets around 5000 visitors a day currently after a year of
marketing. This is with no very high traffic top 3 SERPs, when I start
getting those (next year) I could see visitor number triple (or more).

Sam

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Nov 15, 2003, 9:34:19 PM11/15/03
to
seo dave:

Would you consider these two sites, both listed in google with high pr,
spammer sites? can you tell what they are doing to spam, if you think
they're spam. They're a bit advanced:

http://www.discount-healthcare.org/

http://www.bargain-shopping.net/

SEO Dave

unread,
Nov 16, 2003, 6:38:02 AM11/16/03
to
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 02:34:19 GMT, Sam <.@mail.com> wrote:

>seo dave:
>
>Would you consider these two sites, both listed in google with high pr,
>spammer sites? can you tell what they are doing to spam, if you think
>they're spam. They're a bit advanced:
>
>http://www.discount-healthcare.org/

First one is filled with links at the top of the page and
automatically redirects to another site, which then open another
window (so two windows open). Looks like it redirects via an affiliate
link, so anyone purchasing gets the owner of the site some cash.

The page that you don't see is what I'd call spam because the visitor
doesn't see it, it's main aim is to bring in traffic for what ever
phrases it's optimised for (which isn't the redirected pages) and push
PR to the sites at the top (several porn sites).

Interestingly this site http://astronomylinks.com feeds it it's PR.
Based on the sidebars (lots of external links to sites probably under
the control of one person/entity) I'd say it's main purpose is to
create and redirect PR. Check a few of the pages out, very small
amounts of real content.

Impressed with the astronomylinks.com as a way to promote other sites.
Lots of very high PR sites to do with astronomy, whilst not the same
with medicines etc....

>http://www.bargain-shopping.net/

As above.

If you are looking at promoting a very difficult area (like porn) this
is a very effective way to achieve it.

Sam

unread,
Nov 16, 2003, 4:41:09 PM11/16/03
to

Those two spammer sites seem to be gone now. Thanks to mu javascript
submit machine I modeified to submit to all 11 databases of google at
the same time. I re-submitted those 2 charming sites to all 11 datbases
of google a couple of hours ago and now they have vanished like the
wicked witch of the west so I guess maybe I melted them. Wishful
thinking anyway.

James

unread,
Nov 16, 2003, 9:16:47 PM11/16/03
to
> Those two spammer sites seem to be gone now. Thanks to mu javascript
> submit machine I modeified to submit to all 11 databases of google at
> the same time. I re-submitted those 2 charming sites to all 11 datbases
> of google a couple of hours ago and now they have vanished like the
> wicked witch of the west so I guess maybe I melted them. Wishful
> thinking anyway.

They seem to be back up and doin fine now. 6:17PM PST.


James Taylor
http://www.aicompany.com


Tim Arnold

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Nov 16, 2003, 11:52:29 PM11/16/03
to
> > Interestingly this site http://astronomylinks.com feeds it it's PR.

They are buying advertising at http://astronomylinks.com and getting
good PR because of it. The astronomy site probably isnt in on any of
this.

They are using the discount-healthcare.org site for both a redirect
and also for sending some page rank to some of their porn sites.

I am not great with javascript so I am not sure where the redirect
code is but I would put it after the links or google may not see the
links they have posted.

Heres is some of what you dont see because of the fast redirect in the
source code for discount-healthcare.org site:

The way to see the source code is of course hitting the stop button
before the redirect and clicking "view source" or even downloading the
site to your PC using "Save as"


A href="http://www.landoflovedolls.com/">land of love
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</DIV>
<P align=center><A
href="http://www.discount-healthcare.org/index.htm">DISCOUNT-HEALTHCARE.ORG</A></P>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 border=0>
<TBODY>
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borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=150
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<TD align=middle><A
href="http://www.discount-healthcare.org/index.htm">Home</A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle><A
href="http://www.discount-healthcare.org/membership.htm">Discount
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<TR>
<TD align=middle><A
href="http://www.discount-healthcare.org/physician.htm">Physician
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<TR>
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Articus

unread,
Nov 18, 2003, 1:11:07 AM11/18/03
to
11 databases of google. What are they so I can submit my site to all 11 as
well.
"Tim Arnold" <vgo_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2c80a852.03111...@posting.google.com...

Sam

unread,
Nov 18, 2003, 4:30:13 AM11/18/03
to
Articus wrote:
>
> 11 databases of google. What are they so I can submit my site to all 11 as
> well.
>
Yikes you don't want to do that, googlebot wouldn't like it. Just submit
to www. and also www2, www-fi., and maybe www-cw. if you are going to
multiple submit although the new database -mc sort of has my interest
too. Really www. is enough to submit to along with first getting link
backs to your site fromother sites already listed in google. But you
need to get links from sites that have a page ranking of pr4 on up so
get the google toolbar so you can check the sites pr first.
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