Didn't wish us good luck (vent, m/c; other people's children; some religion ment.)
Meg F
get-together with my DH's family (most are Roman Catholic... many with
charismatic version). That matters because in their religion IVF is
verboten and considered 'illicit' because it isn't 'natural'. Long
religious stuff involved, but though some have never said anything bad
to us they don't seem to wish us well. Suppose I shouldn't mind, but
just struck me finally that this is the case. We have not been around
them all that much. Heck, we were told several years ago that we were
a bad influence on the kids by the MIL because we are not religious.
That hurt! We are good, even to them quite moral folks, but just not
proper thinking enough. But sure enough at dinner the conversation
included going to Mass (RC religious service), prayer meetings, and a
religious book the FIL is trying to publish. Sigh! They all expect to
be raptured at the coming of the end of the world, I think.
The MIL and FIL do wish us well and seem to care. They do think we
should have hung it up years ago and 'be happy'. They never suggest
adoption and donor egg is like adultery to them. I realized in the car
leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no
m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They
just blinked at us. I got uncomfortable and said that "Well, we only
have a 5 - 10% chance, but hope it can work." Still no comment. The
only comment we got about our pregnancy loss 2 years ago was one quick
"I'm sorry" said in a parking lot by the BIL to DH as they went to a
MIL birthday party 1 week after the D&C. I was too sad to go that day.
What made me feel okay is that another relative (married to a cousin
from non-Catholic side - 1 kid) heard about our IVF attempt and came
up to me as we left and said "I want to wish you luck." then gave me a
hug. I hugged her back and said "Thanks, I really appreciate your
saying that." How simple for the others to wish us well, but they
didn't. Is this on purpose or what? Oh well.... guess it doesn't
matter. We were invited to DH's parents' Easter dinner tomorrow where
this BIL will come with his brood between prayer meetings, but I think
we'll skip it. They can all say their Roman Catholic blessing together
over their ham and hang out with their broods. We'll either work or go
driving around looking at wild flowers.
Meg F
Trisha93
> didn't. Is this on purpose or what?
Meg, from what I can figure, LOTS of them avoid the subject on purpose..
Some of them don't know what to say, so they avoid saying ANYTHING, and
some of them are just plain insensitive, (better they say NOTHING than to
add to your pain with a big foot-in-mouth comment), and others use the cop
out of ignorance...It is a self-centered society we live in, and it's so
much easier and comfortable to ignore someone else's pain...
I know last month when we were so obviously grieving from our miscarriage,
the people at church who had always gave us a big hug and told us they
loved us, most of them had disappeared!...They just didn't know how to
relate!
Yes, it hurt...big time..
No such luck when it comes to relatives, though. We just don't see most of
them anymore...I found it so much easier to just stay away from the
hurtful people.
Also, I did learn something from a donor cycle a while back...The people
who don't understand, or disagree for religious reasons,? if they wish you
well, it's almost like they are being hypocritical...strangely enough I
think it's because if you DO get pregnant (IMHO), somehow they'll have to
re-evaluate their convictions, and respond to your success...and it's just
so much easier for them to be selfish and self-righteous all at the same
time...so they really DON"T want it to go well, and hence they just don't
bother to say anything to you at all!...
Sadly, they forget that one of the most compelling characteristics of the
God they follow and strive to imitate was that He was the most
compassionate Man who ever walked the earth...even when people had made
wrong choices that were clearly against the commandments...
hey, it IS easier to read when it's in short paragraphs!
--
Trisha93
5+ yrs IUI,IVF FET,twin m/c
"Everybody gets twitterpated in the Springtime"
--Friend Owl from "Bambi"
Karan Harp
> in their religion IVF is
> verboten and considered 'illicit' because it isn't 'natural'.
Neither are dentures, glasses, nose jobs, dye jobs, kidney transplants,
dialysis, or for that matter, many of the things that the Gospel author
Luke [a physician] would try ...
It's verboten because they're afraid of it.
A round world was verboten at one time.
> Heck, we were told several years ago that we were
> a bad influence on the kids by the MIL because we are not religious.
If you have truly been kind to them DESPITE how they treat you, they're
right. You're going to confuse the kids! If non-religious people behave
in a more Scriptual manner than religious people do, what do the kids
need with Church?
(OK, the truth here is that their bad example is what is REALLY the bad
influence.)
> The MIL and FIL do wish us well and seem to care.
I'm so glad.
> I realized in the car
> leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no
> m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They
> just blinked at us.
I'm sorry they cannot handle this. I am glad that you see that now.
Their discomfort may have everything, or absolutely nothing to do with
their beliefs. Usually people with a sermon to preach take every
opportunity, so I'd bet it's just an awful "What can I say to help?"
feeling that silences them. {Especially with what happened after your
m/c. Trisha's words are SO full of wisdom!}
If they're keeping a sermon to themselves, it is an act of compassion
for you, at the expense of their own Good Conscience.
> another relative (married to a cousin
> from non-Catholic side - 1 kid) heard about our IVF attempt and came
> up to me as we left and said "I want to wish you luck." then gave me a
> hug.
I love happy endings!
> How simple for the others to wish us well, but they
> didn't. Is this on purpose or what?
I very much doubt it. My money is on the fact that some people can
talk/share/hug easily and others can't.
It's too bad, really. They don't know what they're missing.
here's an Easter hug to you,
Karan
--
Karan Davis Harp
http://members.tripod.com/~laughlines/index.html
j&m
I vote for wildflower looking! I know I'm not in your family, but I am here
to offer you the best of luck! You are in my thoughts and prayers (even
though they aren't roman catholic prayers :) )
Hang in there.
June
Gina & Dave
Aren't you glad that you can come here then and hear 'Good luck', 'We're
all praying for you' and 'Positive thoughts'?!?
Hey, good luck, you're in my prayers, and lots of positive thoughts!!!!
Gina
Meg F wrote:
> Maybe I'm being sensitive, but we just went to another family
> get-together with my DH's family (most are Roman Catholic... many with
> charismatic version). That matters because in their religion IVF is
> verboten and considered 'illicit' because it isn't 'natural'. Long
> religious stuff involved, but though some have never said anything bad
> to us they don't seem to wish us well. Suppose I shouldn't mind, but
> just struck me finally that this is the case. We have not been around
> them all that much. Heck, we were told several years ago that we were
> a bad influence on the kids by the MIL because we are not religious.
> That hurt! We are good, even to them quite moral folks, but just not
> proper thinking enough. But sure enough at dinner the conversation
> included going to Mass (RC religious service), prayer meetings, and a
> religious book the FIL is trying to publish. Sigh! They all expect to
> be raptured at the coming of the end of the world, I think.
>
> The MIL and FIL do wish us well and seem to care. They do think we
> should have hung it up years ago and 'be happy'. They never suggest
> adoption and donor egg is like adultery to them. I realized in the car
> leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no
> m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They
> just blinked at us. I got uncomfortable and said that "Well, we only
> have a 5 - 10% chance, but hope it can work." Still no comment. The
> only comment we got about our pregnancy loss 2 years ago was one quick
> "I'm sorry" said in a parking lot by the BIL to DH as they went to a
> MIL birthday party 1 week after the D&C. I was too sad to go that day.
>
> What made me feel okay is that another relative (married to a cousin
> from non-Catholic side - 1 kid) heard about our IVF attempt and came
> up to me as we left and said "I want to wish you luck." then gave me a
Meg F
>Meg,
>I vote for wildflower looking!
That's exactly what we did. It is a great year for Blue Bonnets in
Texas and all other kinds of wildflowers. We decided to shuck the work
for one weekend. We've been under deadline pressure with back to back
days going on and on, then the deadline is moved and the pressure gets
worse and longer. Can anyone say "burnout" with me? It felt like a
vacation to take off and just drive around.
Just got back and thanks folks yet again for your kind support and
good wishes! Sure felt good not to be at that Easter meal and instead
out at a wildflower center buying seeds for next Spring.
>I know I'm not in your family, but I am here
>to offer you the best of luck! You are in my thoughts and prayers (even
>though they aren't roman catholic prayers :) )
>Hang in there.
>June
>
I'm what the Caths call "fallen away".... far away religiously... but
not very far morally anyway. So non-RC prayers are just fine!!! ;-)
Thanks everyone!
Meg F
Tracybob1
>I realized in the car
>leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no
>m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They
>just blinked at us. I got uncomfortable and said that "Well, we only
>have a 5 - 10% chance, but hope it can work." Still no comment.
Meg, if they think IVF is sinful, then perhaps they were doing you a favor by
not saying what was on their minds.
Tracy
--
My address is a spam block... remove the word "remove" to email me :-)
Meg F
wrote:
>In article <370690ac...@news.onramp.net>, ji...@onramp.net (Meg F) writes:
>
>>I realized in the car
>>leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no
>>m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They
>>just blinked at us. I got uncomfortable and said that "Well, we only
>>have a 5 - 10% chance, but hope it can work." Still no comment.
>
>Meg, if they think IVF is sinful, then perhaps they were doing you a favor by
>not saying what was on their minds.
>
>Tracy
I think that is true, but it still hurts a little to think that anyone
truly believes what we are doing is 'illicit'. I understand the
concepts though and am not that far off from agreeing. I truly grieve
for each little embryo that doesn't make it and think of them as
potential children! It's okay though, I know that the same RC dialogue
states that any child created, even by IVF, is a 'gift from God' and
to be loved and treated the same as any other child. As long as any
child is accepted fully, then I don't really care what they think of
us. I suppose they think we'll burn in hellfire anyway. The RC
dialogue suggests that 'god' wants us to do community service or
adoption. Well... maybe I'm just thick so far, but might take the hint
someday.
What was funny is that years ago when the RC ruling came out on IVF
that I went to a local church and got a copy, then read it and got
quite upset. Turns out the religious Catholic family members had no
clue what I was talking about, so I got upset for nothing. Guess I was
the one to clue them in? Dumb me! :-)
Meg F
KRomas555
wishes and GOD BLESS YOU."
I am married to a Catholic. Our children are being raised as Catholics. I am
converting next fall. I also donated my eggs last year to an infertile couple,
and I would do it again. Did I consult the priest in our parish beforehand? No.
I know what he would have said, and I don't care. I think he's wrong. I don't
think God is gonna send me to hell because I wanted to help two wonderful,
decent, good people have a baby.
When people (Catholics) say that it's unnatural to treat infertility, and to
try alternative methods to get pregnant, well, I want to ask them, should we
not treat cancer patients then? What about AIDS patients? What about any other
disease?
I just want you to know that not all of us Catholics feel that way. (I know you
probably already know this.) Of course, the older generation is so set in their
ways, they probably will never change their minds, so forget about looking to
them for support. That's gotta hurt. But you go ahead and do what you have to,
and be strong. May God bless you with little miracles of life. I am sorry if
anyone is offended or gets mad at this post.
Amy Esser
KRomas555 <krom...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990415095031...@ng115.aol.com...
> I want to wish every one of you fighting infertility, "Good luck and best
> wishes and GOD BLESS YOU."
>
> I am married to a Catholic. Our children are being raised as Catholics. I
am
> converting next fall. I also donated my eggs last year to an infertile
couple,
> and I would do it again. Did I consult the priest in our parish
beforehand? No.
> I know what he would have said, and I don't care. I think he's wrong. I
don't
> think God is gonna send me to hell because I wanted to help two wonderful,
> decent, good people have a baby.
>
> When people (Catholics) say that it's unnatural to treat infertility, and
to
> try alternative methods to get pregnant, well, I want to ask them, should
we
> not treat cancer patients then? What about AIDS patients? What about any
other
> disease?
Slightly OT here...but the Catholic belief isn't that it's unnatural to
treat infertility, just that there are certain treatments that are wrong.
The reasoning behind the belief can be found in a document entitled Donum
Vitae (available at several places on the web). And the reasoning against
IVF really doesn't have anything to do with it being unnatural.
Don't want to start religious flaming, but I hate seeing misinformation
about Catholic beliefs.
Amy
Amy Esser
KRomas555 <krom...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990415095031...@ng115.aol.com...
> I want to wish every one of you fighting infertility, "Good luck and best
> wishes and GOD BLESS YOU."
>
> I am married to a Catholic. Our children are being raised as Catholics. I
am
BTW, I know you meant well and used the proper header warning, but people
with children are not supposed to post on this newsgroup (unless they are
adopted and you are a primary). Please respect the FAQ in that regard.
Thanks,
Amy
KRomas555
>treat infertility, just that there are certain treatments that are wrong.
Isn't egg donation one of them?
KRomas555
>with children are not supposed to post on this newsgroup (unless they are
>adopted and you are a primary). Please respect the FAQ in that regard.
If someone had successfully fought infertility, does that mean they are not
allowed to post?
Trisha93
> If someone had successfully fought infertility, does that mean they are not
> allowed to post?
Just to clarify, this particular newsgroup is stricly for those who have
never given birth...and although we appreciate your encouragement and good
intention, we simply HAVE to insist that this be a safe haven for those
who have never Or who MAY NEVER give birth, according to the group's
charter.
However, if you HAVE children of your own, your postings will be more than
welcomed on the alt.infertility newsgroup, or the misc.health.infertility.
ANYONE who is or has been infertile can post there, and most of us who
read this "Primary" newsgroup also read the other newsgroups.
All the FAQ's for this and the other infertility newsgroups are located at
www.fertilityplus.org...
--
Trisha93
5+ yrs IUI,IVF, FET,twin m/c
counting down to FET in May
Amy Esser
> >Slightly OT here...but the Catholic belief isn't that it's unnatural to
> >treat infertility, just that there are certain treatments that are wrong.
>
> Isn't egg donation one of them?
Yes it is, as is IVF, ZIFT, surrogacy, and others. But the reasoning is NOT
that they are unnatural, which is what I was getting at, so your comment
about treating cancer and so forth isn't quite the same thing. As I said
before, the reasoning can be found in Donum Vitae, and it's too lengthy to
go into here (web search will pull up the document).
The Church does encourage treatment of infertility, but not at any cost. In
other words, the ends don't always justify the means. Obviously a lot of
people disagree with that, but my reason for posting was just to clarify
what Catholicism really teaches.
Amy
meganwe...@gmail.com
> Maybe I'm being sensitive, but we just went to another family get-together with my DH's family (most are Roman Catholic... many with charismatic version). That matters because in their religion IVF is verboten and considered 'illicit' because it isn't 'natural'. Long religious stuff involved, but though some have never said anything bad to us they don't seem to wish us well. Suppose I shouldn't mind, but just struck me finally that this is the case. We have not been around them all that much. Heck, we were told several years ago that we were a bad influence on the kids by the MIL because we are not religious. That hurt! We are good, even to them quite moral folks, but just not proper thinking enough. But sure enough at dinner the conversation included going to Mass (RC religious service), prayer meetings, and a religious book the FIL is trying to publish. Sigh! They all expect to be raptured at the coming of the end of the world, I think. The MIL and FIL do wish us well and seem to care. They do think we should have hung it up years ago and 'be happy'. They never suggest adoption and donor egg is like adultery to them. I realized in the car leaving that yet again I had mentioned to DH's brother/SIL (6 kids no m/cs no infertility) that we were going to be trying IVF again. They just blinked at us. I got uncomfortable and said that "Well, we only have a 5 - 10% chance, but hope it can work." Still no comment. The only comment we got about our pregnancy loss 2 years ago was one quick "I'm sorry" said in a parking lot by the BIL to DH as they went to a MIL birthday party 1 week after the D&C. I was too sad to go that day. What made me feel okay is that another relative (married to a cousin from non-Catholic side - 1 kid) heard about our IVF attempt and came up to me as we left and said "I want to wish you luck." then gave me a hug. I hugged her back and said "Thanks, I really appreciate your saying that." How simple for the others to wish us well, but they didn't. Is this on purpose or what? Oh well.... guess it doesn't matter. We were invited to DH's parents' Easter dinner tomorrow where this BIL will come with his brood between prayer meetings, but I think we'll skip it. They can all say their Roman Catholic blessing together over their ham and hang out with their broods. We'll either work or go driving around looking at wild flowers.Meg F
The Catholic religion teaches that creating a human life outside of the body in a petri dish, destroying the ones that do not develop properly or are genetically unsound, and freezing the extra embryos is a grave sin..a mortal sin...and a very selfish sin. If a Catholic condones this act, enables this act or does not say or show their disapproval of this mortal sin, then, they, themselves are subject to being a part of the sin. That is why they did not wish you good luck. The Catholic religion teaches that if you cannot have children through "natural ways", then you should follow the path of adoption