Did Clinton have Starbuck's manager murdred? (b)
Walt Horning
grand jury that "the White House maintains an operation to intimidate
women who have had affairs with the president."
Lewinsky said, "I would not cross these people for fear of my life."
A former Miss American said she was physcially affraid.
---
More proof of subverting the government against the people? Definitely
an impeachable offense.
Fuck you Clinton!
---
Is this why one or two women who allegedly were sexually assaulted and
beaten up by Clinton, personally, recanted back and forth, unsure if
their own life is safe or not?
Fuck you Clinton!
---
Was the manager of a DC Starbuck's, a former White House intern, raped
by Clinton, and then later threatened to tell Newsweek, but had 5
bullets put in her, execution-style, to make sure she would never talk
again?
Fuck you Clinton!
Krow
Walt Horning wrote in message <362b8433...@news.pipeline.com>...
>President Clinton's former political consultant Dick Morris told the
>grand jury that "the White House maintains an operation to intimidate
>women who have had affairs with the president."
>
Krow
djmilt
We know that because it comes from Carville and other Clinton
spokespeople. Anyone who dares to say unflattering, thou perhaps
truthful things about Clinton, gets bashed! It happens every time.
Jeanne
Ted Holden
wrote:
>Was the manager of a DC Starbuck's, a former White House intern, raped
>by Clinton, and then later threatened to tell Newsweek, but had 5
>bullets put in her, execution-style, to make sure she would never talk
>again?
>
>Fuck you Clinton!
I'll bet you couldn't convince that girl's family that Slick was a
friend of women or was good on women's issues or anything like that.
Ted Holden
med...@access.digex.com
Roedy Green
had any evidence to support even one of them, you would have 90% of the
Democrats leaping on the impeachment bandwagon with you.
With your juicy rip-snorting scandals in his pocket, why is Mr. Starr
wasting time with this wimpy Lewinsky purgery which does not seem to be
selling well in the Democratic camps?
My first reaction is you are a paid Republican flunky spreading FUD.
However, if you have any evidence at all to support any of those charges, I
am all ears.
--
Roedy Green
-30-
djmilt
wrote:
>I'll bet you couldn't convince that girl's family that Slick was a
>friend of women or was good on women's issues or anything like that.
>
bestows on women close to him and how that squares with NOW sticking
by him. In essense, she is saying to look at the big picture of what
he has done for women. I say, give us a break. The only reason they
stay in there with this guy is his stand on abortion rights. He
changes that, they're gone. But, there're pretty washed up now anyway.
Jeanne
Jason Cormier
Ted Holden wrote in message <3622c7b7....@news2.digex.net>...
>>Was the manager of a DC Starbuck's, a former White House intern, raped
>>by Clinton, and then later threatened to tell Newsweek, but had 5
>>bullets put in her, execution-style, to make sure she would never talk
>>again?
>>Fuck you Clinton!
>I'll bet you couldn't convince that girl's family that Slick was a
>friend of women or was good on women's issues or anything like that.
And I bet her family would be horrified at the possibility of the police
wasting time on this ridiculous theory.
Rob Robertson
>
> Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
They were in the previous message that you deleted. Here they are again;
President Clinton's former political consultant Dick Morris told the
grand jury that "the White House maintains an operation to intimidate
women who have had affairs with the president."
Lewinsky said, "I would not cross these people for fear of my life."
A former Miss America said she was physically afraid.
---
More proof of subverting the government against the people? Definitely
an impeachable offense.
Fuck you Clinton!
---
Is this why one or two women who allegedly were sexually assaulted and
beaten up by Clinton, personally, recanted back and forth, unsure if
their own life is safe or not?
Fuck you Clinton!
---
Was the manager of a DC Starbuck's, a former White House intern, raped
by Clinton, and then later threatened to tell Newsweek, but had 5
bullets put in her, execution-style, to make sure she would never talk
again?
Fuck you Clinton!
> If you could prove or even
> had any evidence to support even one of them, you would have 90% of the
> Democrats leaping on the impeachment bandwagon with you.
You are living in a *dream world*, bud. America watched the Branch Davidians
being gassed, crushed, and burned to death on national television and we
'collectively' chose to believe that Koresh ambushed a cattle car full of JBT's,
and that he waited until they started pumping volatile CS gas into the building
before 'committing suicide'.
That's just so much self-delusion, and that includes Democratic lawmakers.
And speaking of 'committing suicide', how many lawmakers do think actually
believe that Vince Foster was not murdered as a matter of political expediency?
There are scores of atrocities that have been discussed on the Internet
that have barely seen the light of day in the national mainstream media,
and as long it stays that way, both Democratic and Republican lawmakers
get to play stupid while they wait for 'all the evidence', and when they
*DO* get the evidence, they get to stonewall in special committees until
yet another scandal occupies the national consciousness.
> With your juicy rip-snorting scandals in his pocket, why is Mr. Starr
> wasting time with this wimpy Lewinsky purgery which does not seem to be
> selling well in the Democratic camps?
[spelling tip: perjury]
That's an excellent question; why has Ken Starr not made public the
information that we've seen here regarding FBI files, abuse of power
in the travel office firings, the dismantling of security mechanisms
that allowed agents of Communist China to obtain and fax secret
documents out of the country, etc,... and why did Ken Starr fight
tooth and nail the inclusion of the Knowlton/Clarke Addendum to his
report on the death of Vince Foster? I'll just leave that question
open-ended for now.
> My first reaction is you are a paid Republican flunky spreading FUD.
> However, if you have any evidence at all to support any of those charges, I
> am all ears.
I doubt there is direct evidence linking Clinton to Mary Caitlin Mahoney's
death, but there is enough evidence there to indicate something amiss. I'm
not playing any partisan games here, but I do think murder is in poor taste,
and it appears that Miss Mahoney was murdered for some reason.
Stay tuned for details.
> --
> Roedy Green
> -30-
_
Rob Robertson
Jason Cormier
Roedy Green wrote in message <6vulkh$q...@lotho.delphi.com>...
>Where did you get these exciting allegations.? If you could prove or even
>had any evidence to support even one of them, you would have 90% of the
>Democrats leaping on the impeachment bandwagon with you.
>
>wasting time with this wimpy Lewinsky purgery which does not seem to be
>selling well in the Democratic camps?
>
>However, if you have any evidence at all to support any of those charges, I
>am all ears.
Welcome to Walt's World: where evidence is an annoying diversion.
Roedy Green
> Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
Surely you did not make them up yourself.
The other thing of interest would be some evidence for the allegations.
You provide just the outline of the allegations themselves. In particular,
where is there some detail on the Starbuck Murder you mention in the
headline? That one would seal the impearchment with out any dissent.
--
Roedy Green
-30-
Rob Robertson
>
> Rob Robertson asked, wrote, or quoted:
>
> > Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
>
> I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
> Surely you did not make them up yourself.
Here's a little I've seen in the way of reporting;
--------
From: gcr...@attNOSPAM.net (Gary Cruse) wrote,
<from Clinton List:>
Mary Mahoney White House Intern
died 7/97
An attractive 25 year old woman, Mary was a former White House
Intern for Bill Clinton working as the Assistant Manager at a
Starbuck's Coffee shop in Georgetown. In the pre-trial publicity
surrounding Paula Jones lawsuit, and mere days after Newsweek's Mike
Isikoff had dropped hints that a "former White House staffer" was
about to go public with her story of sexual harassement at 1600
Pennsylvania, gunmen entered the Starbuck's while the crew was
cleaning up after closing. Mary's two associates were taken to a room
and shot. Mary herself had five bullets in her. No money was taken. As
of this writing, Mike Isikoff's "former White House staffer" has never
appeared.
----
WASHINGTON (AP) - The deaths of three Starbucks Coffee bar workers shot to
death in the upscale Georgetown section of the nation's capital is causing
the company to re-evaluate its security procedures.
``In our 26-year history at Starbucks, we have never experienced any type
of crime like this,'' said Dean Torrenga, the Mid-Atlantic regional
director for the Seattle-based chain.
Torrenga said Starbucks will begin posting security guards at some of its
District of Columbia stores.
``There are some of our managers who have expressed concern about closing
their stores without additional security in the wake of the slayings of
our associates,'' Torrenga said.
No arrests had been made as of late Monday, although broadcast reports
said police had identified a suspect who had no known connection to the
coffee shop.
WTOP-AM and WRC-TV said the suspect, whose name was not released,
apparently did not know the three victims. WTOP reported the suspect may
be mentally unstable and may have been acted out of rage. A police
spokesman said there would be no comment on suspects until an arrest is
made.
Investigators said the workers were shot sometime Sunday night after the
shop closed at 8 p.m. The bodies were discovered in a back room by a
manager who arrived before dawn to reopen the store. Each had been shot in
the head, one several times.
The victims, all Washington residents, were identified as Aaron David
Goodrich, 18; Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 24; and Emory Allen Evans, 25, also
shocked residents of the trendy Georgetown neighborhood where the store is
located.
The stretch of Wisconsin Avenue where slayings occurred is lined with
stylish boutiques, shops and night spots that make it a magnet for
tourists, the capital's young set and students from nearby Georgetown
University.
AP-NY-07-08-97
-------
Washington Times
07/09/97
Miss Mahoney had an internship with President Clinton
after he first took office and arranged White House tours, The
Washington Post reported." Victim Mary Caitrin (Caity) Mahoney, 25, was
the assistant manager of the Georgetown Starbucks coffee shop. On
the local news last night she was also said to have been active in the
Democratic Party.
Though the slayings were believed to have taken place shortly after the
8:00 pm closing time on Sunday night, the bodies of the three employees
were not found until the next morning. Each had been shot in the head
and no money had been taken. The other two victims were Emory Allen
Evans, 25, and Aaron David Goodrich, 18. Like Ms. Mahoney, they were
residents of the District.
Police currently say they have no motive and no suspect and are appealing
to the public for help. The only known lead is that an apparently
anonymous caller says he overheard a man talking on the pay phone at
the Georgetown Four Seasons Hotel on Sunday night say, "I just killed a
bunch of people, and I'm not going back to prison.
-------
Saturday December 6 4:14 PM EST
Starbucks murder informant killed
WASHINGTON, Dec. 6 (UPI) _ Three men were arrested Friday for allegedly killing
an informant who was helping police solve the July slaying of three employees
at a Georgetown Starbucks coffee shop. Police describe the informant (Saturday)
as a cocaine user, and say he was attacked by several men who robbed and
fatally beat him Thursday night.
-------
> The other thing of interest would be some evidence for the allegations.
> You provide just the outline of the allegations themselves. In particular,
> where is there some detail on the Starbuck Murder you mention in the
> headline? That one would seal the impearchment with out any dissent.
Personally, I don't think it would seal the impeachment if Congress
hasn't figured out yet that Clinton is the biggest criminal we've had
in the White House since Wang Jun stopped in for coffee.
Rob Robertson
>
> Rob Robertson asked, wrote, or quoted:
>
> > Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
>
> I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
> Surely you did not make them up yourself.
Here's some more;
Subject: *MahoneyLewinskyConnection*
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:37:43 -0800
From: "gaijin" <jhar...@earthlink.net>
Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc.
Newsgroups:
alt.activism.student,alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,alt.current-
events,alt.current-events.clinton,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewa
The following is excerpted from “Strategic Weekly Briefings” by Craig
Karpel, January 23, 1998:
According to my sources, when Monica Lewinsky first met with Vernon Jordan
in November 1997 she told him she didn’t want to end up like Caity Mahoney.
Jordan professed not to know whom Lewinsky was referring to until she
identified Mahoney as the former White House intern who was murdered last
summer in a Starbucks. The Starbucks murders were big news in Washington
because, as D.C. Council member Jack Evans put it, “To have a triple
homicide anywhere in the District of Columbia is an unusual event. To have a
triple homicide in Georgetown is extraordinary.” I would add that a massacre
isn’t supposed to happen in a Starbucks; cafe latte is supposed to happen.
My sources tell me that Jordan gently told Lewinsky not to let her
imagination run away with her and assured her that she was in no danger of
being murdered on orders from Bill Clinton or anyone associated with Bill
Clinton.
According to my sources, Lewinsky wasn’t convinced. When she later met with
Jordan in the back of his limousine, Lewinsky is said to have tearfully told
him that Linda Tripp believed Vincent Foster didn’t commit suicide, and that
neither she nor Tripp wanted to end up like Foster. Jordan is said to have
sighed and told Lewinsky she shouldn’t believe everything Tripp says, and
that Tripp had to be moved out of the White House because she was a
troublemaker.
According to my sources, Lewinsky is now consumed with fear that, having
been flushed into the open by Tripp, she has already, so to speak, “killed
herself.”
And what of the unsolved murder of Caity Mahoney?
A $100,000 reward offered by Starbucks hasn’t caused anyone to come forward.
The police have gotten nowhere. Virginia Mahoney, Caity’s stepmother, worked
for six years in the U.S. attorney’s office in Baltimore assisting crime
victims’ families. “I’m furious,” she says. “If there’s one thing I know, it
’s service to crime victims, and we’re not getting it.”
With the investigation of Caity Mahoney’s execution at a dead end and Monica
Lewinsky on ice while her lawyers try to deal, I have two suggestions:
To the D.C. police: As reported in the July 25, 1997 SWB, Doris Matsui, the
White House official responsible for liaison with the Asian-American
community, headed the Asian Pacific American Working Group (APAWG), which
coordinated the activities of the White House, the Democratic National
Committee and the Clinton-Gore re-election campaign with regard to
Asian-Americans. APAWG, one of whose members was John Huang, came up with
the plan to raise $7 million from Asian-Americans. Caity Mahoney interned
for Doris Matsui. Check it out.
To Lewinsky: You need bodyguards, lady. Lots of beef, cut thick. The thing
to do during a feeding frenzy is not to get eaten.
Rob Robertson
>
> Rob Robertson asked, wrote, or quoted:
>
> > Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
>
> I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
> Surely you did not make them up yourself.
No, I surely didn't;
Subject: WW: DC POLICE SILENT ON MURDER OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN
Date: 8 Feb 1998 17:45:34 GMT
From: no...@aol.com (Nongr)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
D.C. POLICE SILENT ON MURDER OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN
On July 6, 1997, a brutal triple murder took place at a Starbucks
restaurant in an upscale Georgetown neighborhood. The victims
were Aaron Goodrich, 18; Emory Evans, 25; and Mary Caitrin
Mahoney, 25. According to a July 13 Washington Post story,
ballistics test indicated that 10 shots were fired from two
different guns, sometime after 9:15 p.m. The Post story
characterized the crime as an "execution-style" murder.
The murders were strange for several reasons. First, the
restaurant's doors were locked when the victims were found.
Nothing appeared to have been stolen, although nearly $4,000 was
in the store at the time. Police initially discounted robbery as
a motive. Second, the restaurant was in a neighborhood that has
a very strong neighborhood watch program. None of Washington
D.C.'s 397 murders in the previous year had occurred in or near
Georgetown, which is rated safer than many other American cities
such as Palm Springs and Oceanside, California and Boulder,
Colorado. Third, neighbors heard no gunfire, indicating that the
assailants might have used silencers. Finally, multiple murders
are rare even in violent areas of Washington D.C.
Making the story particularly interesting is the fact that Mary
Mahoney was shot as many as five times, according to some press
reports. As the Washington Post reported:
She was almost unrecognizable. Caity, the coffee shop
assistant manager, was first shot in the chest, police said.
She had raised her hands to her face, possibly to protect
herself. A bullet pierced her hands and hit her face. Then
she was shot in the back of the head.
Ms. Mahoney had been heavily involved in presidential politics,
working on Bill Clinton's campaign in 1992. She served as a
White House intern for a while in the first Clinton
Administration, arranging White House tours. After finishing a
degree in Women's Studies at Towson State University in Baltimore
in 1995, she moved to Washington permanently, taking a job as an
assistant manager at the Starbucks restaurant. There Ms.
Mahoney's path seems to have crossed that of another White House
intern, Monica Lewinsky. George Stephanopoulos said last week
that Lewinsky used to hang out at the Starbucks where he lived.
These connections to Lewinsky and the White House have raised
eyebrows in many quarters. The January 23, 1998 Strategic Weekly
Briefings contained the following account attributed to anonymous
sources:
[W]hen Monica Lewinsky first met with Vernon Jordan in
November 1997 she told him she didn't want to end up like
Caity Mahoney. Jordan professed not to know whom Lewinsky
was referring to until she identified Mahoney as the former
White House intern who was murdered last summer in a
Starbucks. . . .
Police are apparently no nearer to solving the crime than they
were in July of 1997. In a December 6 story the Washington Post
reported that a police informant in the case had been beaten to
death outside a row house in Southwest Washington. Police sent
the informant into a crack house to purchase cocaine, hoping to
find grounds to search the house and question the occupants about
the Starbucks case. Three men were arrested in the beating
death, but police found no connection to the Starbucks murders.
Efforts by the Washington Weekly to gain information from the
D.C. police have been unsuccessful. The following exchange
occurred on Thursday of last week with D.C. police detective Tony
Patterson, who is in charge of the case:
QUESTION: May I ask you some questions?
PATTERSON: It depends. Which case?
QUESTION: About the Starbucks murder. May I ask you some
questions?
PATTERSON: No, no. I can't discuss that case.
QUESTION: You can't discuss that case?
PATTERSON: Not right now.
QUESTION: Can you discuss it off the record?
PATTERSON: No.
QUESTION: You can't discuss your informant who was beaten to
death?
PATTERSON: No, that's what I said. Too much has been
released to the press already.
QUESTION: Can you discuss aspects of the case that would not
affect your investigation?
PATTERSON: No sir.
QUESTION: You can't discuss anything? You can't describe
the murder scene?
PATTERSON: That's already known.
QUESTION: It's known from press accounts, but what is not
known so well is what you have to say.
PATTERSON: I have nothing else to say about it.
Efforts to contact Starbucks management were somewhat more
fruitful. The Washington Weekly talked to Kenny Fried, a
Starbucks spokesman on Friday.
QUESTION: I would like to get a statement from you about
where the Washington D.C. murder case is at this point.
FRIED: We're working on getting the store reopened at this
point.
QUESTION: What is the status of the case with the police?
FRIED: They're definitely working on it. They've not closed
it. It's a high profile thing here. But, unfortunately,
the people--we've never sent any statements out or anything
like that. We're trying to open our store at this point,
that's our concern. The store will reopen February 20th.
In Washington this was the biggest story for two weeks. It
was on the front page of every paper and on the newscasts
morning till evening, so it was very heavily on the minds of
the media here.
QUESTION: Do you know at this point if the police have a
suspect or suspects in the case?
FRIED: We don't know anything about that.
QUESTION: I take it this was very unusual for the store. It
was located in a very nice neighborhood in Georgetown, is
that correct?
FRIED: Yes, it's a nice area with a national retailer and
Starbucks never had anything like this happen in their
history. And so it's just unusual and three young people
were killed and so these factors together created a lot of
attention.
QUESTION: The Washington Post characterized this as an
execution-style murder. Do you have any comment on that?
FRIED: I'm dealing mostly with the reopening of the store,
so I won't comment on that. We have not talked to media
because we just want to get the store reopened. I can tell
you that our CEO has announced that all future net profits
for the life span of the store will go to a designated anti-
violence organization. The particular organization will be
announced when the store opens.
QUESTION: There is a lot of speculation going around on the
internet about who could have had a motive for this killing.
And this is being connected to the fact that this young lady
was a former White House intern, and that rumors were
circulating in Washington at this time that an intern was
going to come forward with information about the President's
activities in the White House. Have you heard stories like
that?
FRIED: No, I haven't.
QUESTION: Do you have any comment on that?
FRIED: I'm not the right person to comment on that. I can
see if there is anyone at headquarters who could comment on
that.
QUESTION: Do you know of any apparent motive in this
slaying?
FRIED: No, we don't, nothing. There was speculation that it
was robbery.
QUESTION: Was there any indication from the crime scene that
it was an attempted robbery?
FRIED: That's all a police matter.
The Washington Weekly continues to investigate this case. Anyone
with information on the case is encouraged to contact the
Washington Weekly by email at edi...@dolphin.gulf.net .
Confidentiality is assured.
Published in the Feb. 9, 1998 issue of The Washington Weekly
Copyright 1998 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com)
Reposting permitted with this message intact
Rob Robertson
>
> Rob Robertson asked, wrote, or quoted:
>
> > Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
>
> I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
> Surely you did not make them up yourself.
Here's another piece I found, compliments of Gary Cruse;
By Sari Horwitz andJohn W. Fountain
Washington PostStaff Writers
Sunday, July 13, 1997;Page A01
On the surface, the triocouldn't have seemed more different. One was an
African American man from New Jersey who dreamed of being a musician.
Another was a gay Irish American woman from Baltimore who loved politics.
The third was a young Jewish man who listened to hard rock, relished cartoons
and movies and someday wanted to be a cop.
But all three —Emory Allen Evans, 25; Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 25;
and Aaron David Goodrich, 18 had overcome challenges in their young
lives and landed jobs in a Georgetown coffee shop. Each described the
job to family and friends as a pivotal step toward a future goal.
Instead, last Sunday night, in several horrific moments, those
lives ended together. They were gunned down execution-style in the
back room of the Starbucks on Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown, a
trendy coffee shop in an affluent Washington neighborhood that is
seldom touched by such violence.
D.C. police detectives still don't know what happened in that room
sometime after 9:15 p.m. Preliminary ballistics tests indicate that
10 rounds were fired from two guns in what may have been an attempted
robbery. But police have said no money was stolen from the store, a point
that haunts the victims' survivors.
"The news reports said that the murders did not involve a
robbery— that no money was missing," said Rabbi Donald R. Berlin, of
Baltimore, who officiated at the funeral service for Goodrich in on
Wednesday afternoon.
But there was a robbery, the rabbi said, his voice shaking as he
down at Goodrich's coffin. Someone robbed Aaron Goodrich, Mary
Mahoney and Emory Evans of their lives.
[...]
Early Monday morning, a Metro bus driver, Warren Wingfield, was
driving along his route on Wisconsin Avenue near R Street NW before
daybreak when he spotted a woman running down the middle of the
street toward his bus.
She was screaming and crying, fleeing a horrifying scene at the
Starbucks a half-block away. Three of her co-workers were dead
inside. Wingfield called his dispatcher for help. When D.C. police
arrived, they found the bodies. Emory Evans had been shot three
times, once in the chest with a revolver and twice in the back of the
head with a semiautomatic gun.
[...]
On Monday morning, Caity's mother was taken to Starbucks to
identify the body of the woman lying on the floor in a back room, in
an area apart from the two male bodies.
She was almost unrecognizable. Caity, the coffee shop's assistant
manager, was first shot once in the chest, police said. She had
raised her hands to her face, possibly to protect herself. A bullet
pierced her hands and hit her face. Then she was shot in the back of
the head.
[...]
Rob Robertson
>
> Rob Robertson asked, wrote, or quoted:
>
> > Where did you get these exciting allegations.?
>
> I did not ask you to repeat the allegations, but to provide their source.
> Surely you did not make them up yourself.
Hey, let's replay a post from our lovely and talented Toni Howard;
Subject: Starbuck details
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 11:59:18 -0500
From: Toni Howard <Antoni...@Worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: Antoni...@Worldnet.att.net
Organization: Image Muse
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater
Early I wrote:
In the following article posted by Carl, written by Richard Gooding, who
broke the Dick Morris/Sherry Rollings story there is a detail which I
have not seen in any other description of Caity Mahoney's death scene;
"In one hand, in a death grip, Caity clutched the keys to the store's
safe, which held the weekend's receipts of more than $10,000.
http://www.starmagazine.com ~(included at the end of this post)
This, if true, certainly rules out the attempted theft story promoted by
so many other reporters.
Toni
There are a number of versions of the crime scene. This next one
By Sari Horwitz and John W. Fountain contradicts the ‘Star’
version: (then following this I have included the version
to which Gary referred.)
The story that claims she was shot through her hands
as she held them over her face, ~ therefore being unable
to in one hand, in a death grip, clutch the keys ~ contradicts
the 'Star' magazine story:
Coffee Shop a Fateful Stop on Three Career Paths
By Sari Horwitz and John W. Fountain
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 13, 1997; Page A01
The Washington Post
>snip<On Monday morning, Caity’s mother was taken to
Starbucks to identify the body of the woman lying on the
floor in a back room, in an area apart from the two male
bodies.
She was almost unrecognizable. Caity, the coffee shop’s
assistant manager, was first shot once in the chest, police
said. She had raised her hands to her face, possibly to
protect herself. A bullet pierced her hands and hit her face.
Then she was shot in the back of the head. ....
Staff writer Cheryl W. Thompson contributed to this report.
@CAPTION: Slain a week ago at the Starbucks coffee shop
on Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown were Emory Allen
Evans, 25, top left; Aaron David Goodrich, 18, bottom left;
and Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 25. No arrests have been made.
~~~~~~~~~~
Two Guns Used in Slayings At Starbucks, Police Say
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-07/10/191L-071097-idx.html
Two Guns Used in Slayings At Starbucks, ... (Washington Post)
Summary: The Washington Post Preliminary ballistics tests show that two
guns were used in the slayings this week of three employees of a
Starbucks coffee shop in Washington, leading police to believe that
there may have been two assailants, law enforcement sources said.
The tests indicate that a total of 10 rounds were fired from a
semiautomatic pistol and a revolver in the killings of Mary Caitrin
Mahoney, 25, Emory Allen Evans, 25, and Aaron David Goodrich, 18.
Police initially had ruled out robbery as a motive because cash was
found in the safe from the three-day Fourth of July holiday weekend.
Investigators are now rethinking the issue because a bullet hole was
found in the ceiling over the safe, perhaps the result of a shot fired
as a warning to the employees, D.C. police sources said.
However, one police source said that neither the safe nor the cash
registers appeared to have been tampered with.
Mahoney had the combination to the safe. If the wrong combination is
used, a security device prevents the safe from being opened for a number
of minutes, a police official said. It could not be determined whether
Mahoney had tried to unlock the safe.
Her body was found in a different area from where the other bodies were,
a police source said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Washington Times, 7-10-97:
"Mr. Evans and Mr. Goodrich were shot in the head. Miss Mahoney was
shot more than once, including in the head, a police officer said
yesterday.
"Miss Mahoney's body was found in a storage room and she was shot with
an automatic weapon, WRC-TV (Channel 4) reported last night. Mr.
Evans and Mr. Goodrich, each shot with a revolver, were found in a back
office, the station reported.
That the staffers were separated rules out the shooting as a means to
a theft. Shooting just one in front of the others is how a safe gets
opened.
There is normally little crime in the area, although there was a spate
of armed robberies last summer, police said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When one studies this time line, written I belive by Carl, it becomes
very obvious to the student of this matter that there are very large
questions raised.
A WILLEY-MAHONEY-LEWINSKY TIMELINE
July 4, 1997: Matt Drudge reveals that Newsweek's Michael Isikoff
is hot on the trail of a second Paula Jones - inside
the White House. Drudge does NOT name the woman.
July 7, 1997: The Starbucks Massacre: Former White House intern
Mary Mahoney and two co-workers are shot five times
execution style. At this time, only the White House
knows it has "An Intern Problem". Still, Internet
speculation to a possible connection to a new White
House sex scandal is rampant.
July 15, 1997: According to recent Newsmagazine reports, on or
about mid-July, President Clinton tells Monica that
he can't see her for awhile.
July 28, 1997: Drudge scoops Newsweek once again, naming
Kathleen Willey as the woman Bill Clinton sexually
harrassed inside the White House. With Willey's
I.D., specualtion around the Starbucks connection
subsides.
Dec. 5, 1997: Paula Jones' legal team notifies the White House
that Monica Lewinsky is on their witness list.
Dec. 6, 1997: Nearly 5 months to the day after the still unsolved
Starbucks Massacre, Eric Butera, an informant working
with DC Police on the Starbucks case, is beaten to death
while working at their behest on an unrelated drug case.
Jan 21, 1998: The Washington Post identifies Monica Lewinsky as
the former White House intern implicated in a sexual
relationship with the president. Spotlight on
Starbucks, once again.
This the whiole article from which I got the part about her face;
Coffee Shop a Fateful Stop on Three Career Paths
By Sari Horwitz and John W. Fountain
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 13, 1997; Page A01
The Washington Post
On the surface, the trio couldn’t have seemed more
different. One was an African American man from New
Jersey who dreamed of being a musician. Another was a gay
Irish American woman from Baltimore who loved politics.
The third was a young Jewish man who listened to hard
rock, relished cartoons and movies and someday wanted to
be a cop.
But all three-Emory Allen Evans, 25; Mary Caitrin
Mahoney, 25; and Aaron David Goodrich, 18 -- had
overcome challenges in their young lives and landed jobs in
a Georgetown coffee shop. Each described the job to family
and friends as a pivotal step toward a future goal.
Instead, last Sunday night, in several horrific moments, those
lives ended together. They were gunned down execution-
style in the back room of the Starbucks on Wisconsin
Avenue in Georgetown, a trendy coffee shop in an affluent
Washington neighborhood that is seldom touched by such
violence.
D.C. police detectives still don’t know what happened in that
room sometime after 9:15 p.m. Preliminary ballistics tests
indicate that 10 rounds were fired from two guns in what
may have been an attempted robbery. But police have said
no money was stolen from the store, a point that haunts the
victims’ survivors.
"The news reports said that the murders did not involve a
robbery-that no money was missing," said Rabbi Donald
R. Berlin, of Baltimore, who officiated at the funeral service
for Goodrich in Olney on Wednesday afternoon.
But there was a robbery, the rabbi said, his voice shaking as
he looked down at Goodrich’s coffin. Someone robbed
Aaron Goodrich, Mary Mahoney and Emory Evans of their
lives. ....
Early Monday, a Metro bus driver, Warren Wingfield, was
driving along his route on Wisconsin Avenue near R Street
NW before daybreak when he spotted a woman running
down the middle of the street toward his bus.
She was screaming and crying, fleeing a horrifying scene at
the Starbucks a half-block away. Three of her co-workers
were dead inside.
Wingfield called his dispatcher for help. When D.C. police
arrived, they found the bodies. Emory Evans had been shot
three times, once in the chest with a revolver and twice in
the back of the head with a semiautomatic gun.
Several hundred friends and relatives crowded Friday
morning into the Taggert Chapel, nestled among huge
magnolia and aging oak trees on the campus of McDonogh
Preparatory School near Baltimore to share what they loved
about "Caity" Mahoney.
They cried. They laughed. And they told many a story about
a selfless and gentle woman, nicknamed "Beanbag," who
had successfully overcome daunting obstacles.
Mary Belle Annenberg, Caity Mahoney’s mother, said that
one day Chelsea Clinton walked into Starbucks. Caity was
thrilled. She had worked as an intern for President Clinton in
the White House. But Chelsea couldn’t find any money.
Caity reached into her pocket and bought the president’s
daughter a hazelnut latte.
Caity, the youngest of three children, flunked the second
grade but worked hard to catch up and by the sixth grade
was accepted into the McDonogh School. She brought
home report cards full of A’s and "an arsenal of great
friends," recalled her brother, Patrick Mahoney.
But Caity stuttered, and she disliked answering the telephone
because of her speech impediment. By the time Caity was in
the eighth grade, her speech had improved so much that she
won the eighth-grade oratory championship. "Caity was so
determined," her brother recalled.
Caity later went off to college "and off to college and off to
college," her brother joked, pointing out that his sister
attended Fordham University and Ithaca College in New
York before graduating from Towson State University in
Maryland. "Caity had seen more college campuses than her
sister and I had combined," he said.
She improved her speech and faced a new issue: her
sexuality.
"Caity was not sure about her own sexuality, and she was
struggling," he said. "It proved to be her toughest struggle.
But she confronted this problem like a champ."
When Caity Mahoney told her family that she was a lesbian,
their initial reaction was disapproval, her brother recalled.
"But Caity was strong for us. . . . She educated us about
this. Caity was so brave."
The "dirty-haired blonde," as her brother described her,
didn’t worry about her looks. She never fussed about her
hair or her clothes until her brother’s wedding two weeks
ago.
"She wanted to be pretty" that day, he said, fighting back
tears. "I could sense that, and I told her what a beautiful
woman I thought she had become."
As her brother struggled to keep his composure, he talked of
his love for his baby sister. "It was I who looked up to you,"
he said. "You were my role model. You were so caring and
accepting."
Molly Mahoney, Caity’s older sister, said Caity made her
own rules and stuck by them. She found a note in Caity’s
belongings that outlined her daily goals: Work on speech; be
good to the world, animals and fellow people; be honest; be
on time (always for work); and be careful.
On Monday morning, Caity’s mother was taken to
Starbucks to identify the body of the woman lying on the
floor in a back room, in an area apart from the two male
bodies.
She was almost unrecognizable. Caity, the coffee shop’s
assistant manager, was first shot once in the chest, police
said. She had raised her hands to her face, possibly to
protect herself. A bullet pierced her hands and hit her face.
Then she was shot in the back of the head. ....
Staff writer Cheryl W. Thompson contributed to this report.
@CAPTION: Slain a week ago at the Starbucks coffee shop
on Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown were Emory Allen
Evans, 25, top left; Aaron David Goodrich, 18, bottom left;
and Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 25. No arrests have been made.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www2.phillynews.com:80/daily_news/97/Jul/08/national/COFF08.htm
Coffee shop slayings jolt D.C.
July 8, 1997
3 found shot in Georgetown
Associated Press
>snip<Area residents were shocked by the murders at the Wisconsin Avenue
coffee shop. It is across the street from a supermarket known for its
high-profile clientele, including Secretary of State Madeleine Albright,
former House Speaker Tom Foley and former Sen. Nancy Kassebaum Baker.
The store's doors were locked when the three were found, and nothing
appeared to have been stolen, police said.
>snip<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Two Guns Used in Slayings At Starbucks, Police Say
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-07/10/191L-071097-idx.html
Two Guns Used in Slayings At Starbucks, ... (Washington Post)
Summary: The Washington Post Preliminary ballistics tests show that two
guns were used in the slayings this week of three employees of a
Starbucks coffee shop in Washington, leading police to believe that
there may have been two assailants, law enforcement sources said.
The tests indicate that a total of 10 rounds were fired from a
semiautomatic pistol and a revolver in the killings of Mary Caitrin
Mahoney, 25, Emory Allen Evans, 25, and Aaron David Goodrich, 18.
Police initially had ruled out robbery as a motive because cash was
found in the safe from the three-day Fourth of July holiday weekend.
Investigators are now rethinking the issue because a bullet hole was
found in the ceiling over the safe, perhaps the result of a shot fired
as a warning to the employees, D.C. police sources said.
However, one police source said that neither the safe nor the cash
registers appeared to have been tampered with.
Mahoney had the combination to the safe. If the wrong combination is
used, a security device prevents the safe from being opened for a number
of minutes, a police official said. It could not be determined whether
Mahoney had tried to unlock the safe.
Her body was found in a different area from where the other bodies were,
a police source said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.starmagazine.com
Posted for educational puposes only:
STAR MAGAZINE
March 3, 1998
Cover Blurb: SCARED MONICA: THEY'RE OUT TO KILL ME
Story headline: MONICA LIVING IN FEAR AFTER INTERN IS SHOT DEAD
by Richard Gooding <--- Broke the Dick Morris/Sherry Rollings story
Terrified Monica Lewinsky - the woman at the center of the
Clinton sex scandal - has told friends her life could be in danger.
She talks ominously about the bizarre, unexplained murder of
another White House intern who was one of her best pals.
"I don't want to end up like Caity Mahoney," she is reported
to have said.
Mahoney was gunned down, execution style for no apparent
reason last summer at a Starbucks coffeehouse near the
White House - a place where Monica, 24, and other Clinton
interns frequently hung out.
STAR has also learned that Monica and confidante Linda
Tripp - who secretly taped Monica's claims of a White House
affair with President Clinton - frequently talked about being in
danger.
"You don't think they're going to kill us?" Tripp said a number
of times in recent months to another friend of hers.
Then, just as the sex scandal was about to surface, Tripp was
mysteriously invited by a close pal of Hillary Clinton's to a weekend
getaway and fretted to a friend: "What if they poison me?"
But it was the shocking slaying of the other former White House
intern that has raised the most disturbing questions yet in the
scandal.
Mary Caitrin Mahoney, 25, campaigned full time for Bill Clinton
in the 1992 race and then arrived in Washington in January of 1993
with a coveted summons to be one of the president's first interns.
She later became assistant manager of a Starbucks coffeehouse
in the posh Georgetown district - where she still had friends in
high places and a thirst for the hottest political gossip.
One day Chelsea was a customer - but she couldn't find enough
change for her coffee. Caity Mahoney reached into her own pocket
and treated her.
Subheadline: HIT MEN SILENCE HER PAL
Photo of Caity Mahoney
Photo Caption: Monica was shaken by the grusome death of Caity
Mahoney (above).
Former top White House adviser George Stephanopoulos lived in
the neighborhood and was a regular.
And so was Monica Lewinsky. She and Caity were often seen
chatting and laughing about their shared experiences as young
women in the Clinton White House.
Photo of Starbucks
Photo Caption: Monica was a regular at the Starbucks where three
workers were gunned down, execution style.
Last July 7, Caity was in the cafe cleaning up after closing time
with co-workers Emory Evans and Aaron Goodrich. Sometime after 9pm.,
two gunmen got inside and shot all three to death.
Caity was singled out for the most horrendous fate - as if she'd
been the killers' prime target. Of the ten shots fired, she was hit
five times at point blank range, including at least once in the face.
The final bullet was delivered to the back of her head after she'd
already fallen.
In one hand, in a death grip, Caity clutched the keys to the store's
safe, which held the weekend's receipts of more than $10,000.
D.C. cops were mystified by the apparent lack of motive in the
crime.
The safe hadn't been opened. The cash registers were undisturbed.
The store hadn't been ransacked. None of the victims' personal
belongings had been touched.
"No one knows whether Monica ever confided in Caity about her
relationship with the president," says an insider.
"But they talked a lot. And now Caity is dead."
Meanwhile, Monica has become a household name as the woman
who could bring the Clinton presidency down. She also faces possible
perjury charges from Ken Starr, who's trying to prove she lied under
oath when she denied having a sexual relationship with the president.
"No wonder she's scared."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mailto:Antoni...@Worldnet.att.net
http://www.imagemuse.com/Satyer/Satyer.html
Krow
Rob Robertson wrote in message <3623BD...@gte.com>...
You know, I read the news reports you provided here over and over...and with
the exception one of them mentioning that she once interned at the White
House....I don't believe there was any mention ANYWHERE that the White House
connection was even remotely suspected to be a part of the crime......all
though it does prove right wingers do seem to have quite the imagination. I
believe proof was asked for....haven't seen any yet.....I would be
interested to see you produce something the police obviously don't have yet.
Krow
Nick Danger
>To the D.C. police: As reported in the July 25, 1997 SWB, Doris Matsui, the
>White House official responsible for liaison with the Asian-American
>community, headed the Asian Pacific American Working Group (APAWG), which
>coordinated the activities of the White House, the Democratic National
>Committee and the Clinton-Gore re-election campaign with regard to
>Asian-Americans. APAWG, one of whose members was John Huang, came up with
>the plan to raise $7 million from Asian-Americans. Caity Mahoney interned
>for Doris Matsui. Check it out.
Seconded. Another person who was in the middle of the John Huang
show was Alexis Herman. Herman was Matsui's boss and is openly
homosexual; so was Mahoney. An amazing number of people who
were involved in the Alexis Herman - John Huang show -- Mahoney,
Barbara Wise, and Ron Brown himself -- died under mysterious
circumstances in the space of a few months.
"I am pleased to sign into law...the reauthorization of the Independent
Counsel Act. This law...is a foundation stone for the trust between
the government and our citizens... Opponents called it a tool of
partisan attack against Republican presidents and a waste of taxpayer
funds. It was neither. In fact, the independent counsel statute has
been in the past and is today a force for government integrity and
public confidence.''
-- William Jefferson Clinton, June 30, 1994,
on signing the Independent Counsel Act.
----------
5 > K-39
---------
Roedy Green
> Isikoff had dropped hints that a "former White House staffer" was
>about to go public with her story of sexual harassement at 1600
>Pennsylvania,
Has Isikoff named this former staffer as, Mary Caitrin Mahoney, the woman
shot or is that association still speculation?
>Mary's two associates were taken to a room
>and shot. Mary herself had five bullets in her. No money was taken
Were any other of the women's confidants harmed or threatened? Is there
any reason why those two associates were singled out? Are there any other
alternative explanations, e.g crazed customer upset at service, behind on
drug money, protection money etc.
Let us presume Clinton ordered this murder. Why would he not request that
it look more like a burglary? This looks almost staged to point to
Clinton.
> the suspect, whose name was not released,
>apparently did not know the three victims. WTOP reported the suspect may
>be mentally unstable and may have been acted out of rage
Why is this man a suspect? I could not see any evidence in your report.
Does he sound like the sort of guy who would be on Clinton's payroll as a
professional hit man?
I must admit this looks all highly suspicious. A blow job I can forgive,
lying about it, I can forgive, but not murdering three people.
--
Roedy Green
-30-
Roedy Green
>When Caity Mahoney told her family that she was a lesbian,
>their initial reaction was disapproval.
This would imply Mahoney was not one of the Hoover girls. Just what tale
would she have about the President? Did he make a grossly indecent pass at
her? Is there any evidence she had anything? Or are we just going
paranoid along with Tripp/Lewinski because of the murder?
>Matt Drudge reveals that Newsweek's Michael Isikoff
> is hot on the trail of a second Paula Jones - inside
> the White House. Drudge does NOT name the woman.
Both those two would know the name of the woman. I think we have to find
out who it is, or at least if it is Mahoney. We also need to find out just
what goods this mystery woman had on Clinton. Are they in hiding? Are
they afraid to talk?
--
Roedy Green
-30-
Walt Horning
OK, so you can come and rub me out, here it is:
- The Chinese need hard cash to finance all kinds of ventures. To do
that they need to sell missles that actually fly to terrorists
countries, as well as for their own defenses. They also need a good
size chunk of the vice trade in the USA (drugs, gambling, sex,
etc), as it would bring in tens of billions each year.
- The Chinese have conspired with the Bill Clinton to use the DNC as
a vehicle to get him elected and re-elected. In exchange for
indirect bribery via Clinton's "millionaire friends", Bill
Clinton has conspired to the fleecing of the USA to benefits
the Chinese, possibly bordering on treason as well.
- The DNC has accepted illegal contributions from the Chinese as
part of this proof.
- The Asian Pacific American Working Group (APAWG) helped to
coordinate legal activities for Asian Americans for helping to
support the DNC. But on the side, the APAWG was a vehicle for
those illegal contributions to the DNC from the Chinese. The
Chinese government gave sympathetic Chinese-US citizens donations,
as well. for them to contribute privately to the DNC, as a method
of "landering" the money.
- Under the guise of selling the Chinese, TV, internet, telephone and
other wireless services all via satellite (the legitimate side),
Clinton managed to dupe some military types into providing the
Chinese with knowledge to fix their staging problems on missiles.
(They kept blowing up.) The technology was not only used to help
the Chinese launch legitimate satellite service, but to fix their
military missiles as well.
- The White House liason for this APAWG was Doris Matsui. Doris
worked for Clinton's reelection campaignn. And the intern working
under Doris was the Starbuck's manager, Caity Mahoney. Caity has
always involved in politics as well as in working on the
re-election campaign.
- During Caity's tenure as intern, she came accross the knowledge
that some of the DNC funds were coming from Chinese hands. Being
loyal she told no one, and really thinking Clinton stood for gay
rights this gave her that much more faith in him, being lesbian
herself.
- After Caity starting working at Starbuck's as assistant manager,
this gave her more "liberty" than the other employees. She was
more free to move about. She talked about her White House days
freely and during those conversations let it slip out about her
knowledge of the Chinese-DNC connection. Trouble is one of
Clinton's cronies overheard the conversations, being that Starbucks
is a "hang out" for "uppities" in Washington, DC where Caity was
murdered.
- Clinton, fearing that he could be discovered for accepting bribes
or worse, treason for military secrets, sought to have many of
those who were not trusted to keep secrets any longer, eliminated.
- Besides Caity:
- Victor Raiser knew of the plan to get Chinese assistance and
decided it was too risky and wanted to "bow out"; he and his
son died in a private plane crash in Alaska. The crash lacked
an explanation.
- Paul Tully, who also wanted to "bow out", was found dead of
unknown causes and get this, no autopsy was allowed. Paul was
in on the campaign financing stategy too.
- Ed Willey, husband of Kathleen Willey, also a fund raiser
assistant mysteriously dies of suicide, no note, no motive.
- Hershell Friday, another Clinton fund raiser died in airplane
that exploded.
- Barbara Wise, who worked with John Huang, was murdered inside
her locked office at the Department of Commerce, apparently
beaten to death or untraceable poison. Johh Huang is indicted
for his Chinese-DNC-financing connection.
- Charles Meissner of Dept of Commerce gave John Huang a security
clearance and later Charles dies in a small plane crash.
- Ron Brown died in a plane crash shortly after promising to "make
a deal" with DOJ.
Notice the following similarities:
- After Caity's murder at Starbucks, the doors were locked, just
like the doors were locked at the office of Barbara Wise after
her murder.
- Caity Mahoney, Doris Matsui, John Huang were all tied into APAWG
at one time or another and John Haung had Dept of Commerce
connections, which licensed Chinese "deals".
- The Chinese need money but are willing to spend money to make
money as well as improve their weaponry at any cost. Their
track records supports this premise.
- Too many people associated with fund raising have died and
especially too many in airplanes. Airplane deaths occur less
than car accident deaths, normally. Yet fund raisers have
literally been falling out of the sky. 50% of these deaths were
by airplane.
DISCLAIMER: These are all the connections made in the press, and
evidence from the same. One can build a case of circumstantial
evidence from this evidence. All parties are innocent until proven
guilty. I make no claims to the accuracy of the press reports or that
anyone has committed any actual crimes.
You be the judge.
Roedy Green
> - After Caity's murder at Starbucks, the doors were locked, just
> like the doors were locked at the office of Barbara Wise after
> her murder.
You were doing well up that point with your Kennedy assasination
co-incidences story. If you repost it, take that part out. Locking doors
is not that unusual a thing to do. It makes your whole post look like a
shaggy dog story with a comic punchline.
> - Too many people associated with fund raising have died and
> especially too many in airplanes
This too sounds like a echo of Bob Dylan's cosmic joke -- that too many
people have died -- more than were born presumably. Try wording it, along
the lines of "That so many people would have died ... is highly improbable.
Normally you would expect only X airplane deaths in such a population."
Roedy Green
-30-
tcrpe
TR
mila...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70bql8$ed$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Received this from someone who took the time and energy to find out for
>themselves:
>
> *********************************************************************
>
> Claim: The President of the United States has been quietly doing away
with
>those
> who oppose him.
>
> Status: False.
>
> Origins: A new version of a lengthy list of deaths associated with Bill
>Clinton began circulating on the the Internet in August 1998. According to
>it, there have been close to fifty suspicious deaths of colleagues,
>advisors and citizens who were about to testify against the Clintons, with
>the unstated implication that Bill Clinton or his henchmen were behind
each
>untimely demise.
>
> We shouldn't have to tell anyone not to believe this claptrap, but we
will
>anyway. In a frenzied media climate where the Chief Executive can't boff a
>White House intern without the whole world finding out every niggling
detail
>of each encounter, it's unreasonable to assume this same man has been
having
>double handfuls of detractors and former friends murdered.
>
> Clinton "body count" lists are not a new phenomenon -- they've been with
us
>for years. New victim names are routinely added and old ones taken off,
>forming an endless variety of versions in circulation. At this point,
there
>is no one list.
>
> But where did all this craziness start? In 1994, in a letter to
>congressional leaders, former Rep. William Dannemeyer listed 24 people
with
>some connection to Clinton who had died "under other than natural
>circumstances" and called for hearings on the matter.
>
> Dannemeyer's list of "suspicious deaths" was largely taken from one
compiled
>by
> Linda Thompson, an Indianapolis lawyer who in 1993 quit her one-year-old
>general
> practice to run her American Justice Federation, a for-profit group that
> promotes pro-gun causes and various conspiracy theories through a
shortwave
> radio program, a computer bulletin board and sales of its newsletter and
>videos.
>
> Her list, called "The Clinton Body Count: Coincidence or the Kiss of
>Death?" then contained the names of 34 people she believed died
suspiciously
>and who had ties to the Clinton family. Thompson admitted she had "no
direct
>evidence" of Clinton killing anyone. Indeed, she said the deaths were
>probably caused by "people trying to control the President" but refused to
>say who they were. Thompson said her allegations of murder "seem
groundless
>only because the mainstream media haven't done enough digging."
>
> Ah, but they had. If not before she put her list together, at least
>afterwards.
> Anyone who continues to state the mainstream media has
> given these claims short shrift is being disingenuous.
>
> Since 1994, various respected news outlets have been confronted with
>versions of the "Clinton Body Count" list, run their own investigations of
a
>few of the claims, and found nothing to substantiate what they looked
into.
>Those investigations would culminate in yet another story about an oddball
>conspiracy rumour.
>
> Ah, but conspiracy theories don't die that easily. These "body count"
lists
>and
> the many specious claims contained therein continue to
> circulate in cyberspace and beyond as yesterday's newspaper articles are
> forgotten with the next day's delivery whereas e-mail lives forever.
>
> Let's take this new version apart line by line. The sections which appear
> indented are the "Clinton Body Count" e-mail, while the
> nonindented sections that follow are my comments.
>
> Much of the evidence will never be known because many people who were
>witnesses
> or who possessed evidence of some kind suffered mysterious deaths prior
to
>being
> able to come forward. The list compiled here is not complete and is not
> detailed. It is presented to show how extensive the problem is and to
>illustrate
> that all these deaths could not be just a coincidence.
>
> 1. Mary Mohane - former White House intern gunned down in a coffee shop.
>Nothing
> was taken. It was suspected that she was about to testify about sexual
> harassment at the White House.
>
> Former White House intern Mary Mahoney, manager of a Georgetown
Starbucks,
>was killed along with two co-workers on 6 July 1997 during what police
>believe was a robbery of the shop. Their killers have yet to be found. No
>evidence has surfaced that Mahoney had anything to say about sexual
>harrassment in the White House, let alone was on the verge of coming
>forward. Mahoney and her co- workers were murdered. Why and by whom is
>anyone's guess.
>
> 2. Vincent Foster - former White House Counsel, found dead of a gunshot
>wound to the head and ruled a suicide. He had significant knowledge of the
>Clintons' financial affairs and was a business partner with Hillary. If
the
>Clintons are guilty of the crimes they are accused of by Larry Klayman,
>Vincent Foster would have detailed knowledge of those crimes.
>
> This laundry list of deaths always refers to someone taking his life as
>"ruled a suicide," thus implying another conclusion of equal likelihood
was
>capriciously dismissed by someone who had the power to do so. From here
on,
>read "ruled a suicide" as "an investigation was carried out, arriving at
>this as the only reasonable conclusion."
>
> Vince Foster committed suicide on the night of 20 July 1993 by shooting
>himself once in the head. A note in the form of a draft resignation
letter
>was found in the bottom of his briefcase a week after his death. Foster
>cited negative Wall Street Journal editorials about him. He was also upset
>about the much- criticized role of the counsel's office in the
controversial
>firing of seven White House travel office workers.
>
> Two separate investigations were held into his death. Both concluded
Foster
>died
> by his own hand.
>
> 3. C. Victor Raiser, II - former National Finance Co-Chairman of Clinton
for
> President, and Montgomery Raiser, his son. Both died in a suspicious
private
> plane crash in Alaska. No cause determined. Raiser was considered to be a
>major
> player on the Clinton team.
>
> By definition, all plane crashes are suspicious. Airplanes are supposed
to
>stay in the air, and when they don't it's because something went terribly
>wrong. Pilot error and mechanical failure are by far the most common
causes
>underlying any crash. The National Transportation Safety Board investigates
>every downed plane in the U.S. Though they might not always pin down the
>exact cause of a crash, they're generally pretty good about ruling out the
>use of explosives or of something mechanical being tampered with. Putting
it
>more clearly, if they don't find evidence of tampering or explosives,
that's
>not what downed the plane. We're then back to our old friends pilot error
>and mechanical failure.
>
> Raiser, his son, and three others died in a plane crash in Alaska on 30
>July 1992 during a fishing trip. The pilot and another passenger survived
>and were hospitalized with severe burns. As for no cause for the crash
being
>determined, a small plane was flying in bad weather. It's awfully easy
for
>something to go wrong in those conditions.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 4. Paul Tully - DNC Political Director, was found dead in a Little Rock
>hotel room. No cause was ever determined and no autopsy was allowed. Tully
>was a key member of the damage control squad and came up with some of the
>Clinton strategies.
>
> Paul Tully died on 24 September 1992. Contrary to the claim that an
autopsy
> wasn't allowed, one was performed and Tully's cause of death determined
>(massive heart attack). According to news reports at the time, "An autopsy
by
> the Arkansas medical examiner's office discovered advanced coronary artery
>disease," said Steve Nawojczyk, the Pulaski County coroner. He added that
>investigators found no evidence of external trauma to the body. At the time
>of his death, Tully was massively overweight and a heavy drinker and
smoker.
>
> 5. Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser. Found in the woods in Virginia with a
> gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
>
> Ed Willey had stolen $275,000 of a client's money and was about half a
>million dollars in debt to the IRS. He was a desperate, unstable man. He
>took his own life on 29 November 1993. A note found by his wife said,
>"Saying I'm sorry doesn't begin to explain. I hope one day you will
forgive
>me." Murder victims don't leave suicide notes.
>
> Interestingly enough, at the same time as Willey was killing himself, his
>wife was being groped by Clinton. She'd gone to the Chief Executive
looking
>for a job to help her family out of its financial crisis and found herself
>fending off Clinton's advances. Clinton admits to the meeting but denies
her
>version of what went on during it. Kathleen Willey testified in Paula
Jones'
>harrassment suit against Clinton.
>
> 6. Hershell Friday - Clinton fund-raiser. His plane exploded.
>
> Herschel Friday died on 1 March 1994. His plane did not explode, it
crashed
> during an attempted landing on his private airfield. The
> 73-year-old Friday was its pilot. No one else was aboard. It was a dusk
>landing
> in drizzle with an elderly man at the controls.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 7. Jerry Parks - former security team member for Governor Clinton. Prior
to
>his death he had compiled an extensive file on Clinton's activities. His
>family had reported being followed and his home broken into just before
>being gunned down at a deserted intersection.
>
> On 26 September 1993, Jerry Parks was hit with ten bullets as he left a
>Mexican
> restaurant in Little Rock. His murderer has yet to be found.
>
> Parks' security company guarded Clinton's campaign headquarters in 1992.
>His son, Gary, asserts in both Circle of Power and The Clinton Chronicles
>(both videos are products of Linda Thompson's American Justice Federation)
>that his father collected a secret file of the president's alleged
>indiscretions.
>
> The younger Parks' allegations aside, a suspect in the killings is Jerry
>Parks'
> former partner.
>
> 8. John Wilson - former Washington D.C. council member. Had ties to
>Whitewater.
> Died of a very suspicious hanging suicide.
>
> There was nothing suspicious about this suicide. John Wilson had tried to
>kill himself on four previous occasions. On 19 May 1993 he finally
>succeeded. Police said he did not leave a note and there were no signs of
>foul play.
>
> 9. Kathy Ferguson - former wife of Arkansas State Trooper Danny Ferguson,
>the co-defendant with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Found dead
in
>her living room of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
>Interestingly, her packed suitcases seemed to indicate she was about to go
>somewhere.
>
> Kathy Ferguson killed herself in the manner described on 11 May 1993. A
>suicide note was found beside her body but I can find no record of packed
>bags by the door. The relationship between Ferguson and her live-in
>boyfriend, Bill Shelton, had fallen on hard times. Her daughter told
police
>Ferguson had been upset over a note from Shelton. Now which is more
likely:
>a live-in relationship gone bad prompting a uicide, or an ex-husband
passing
>sensitive information to the woman he's no longer married to?
>
> 10. Bill Shelton - Arkansas state trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson.
> Allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at her grave.
>
> Shelton killed himself over Ferguson's grave on 12 June 1993. A suicide
note
>was
> found beside his body. There's nothing mysterious
> about his death or his reasons for taking his life.
>
> 11. Gandy Baugh - attorney for Dan Lasater in a financial misconduct
case.
> Supposedly jumped out the window of a tall building to commit suicide.
>
> I can find no record of anyone with that name. No obituary notice, no
news
>story
> on the death, nothing. Even searches for lawyers
> committing suicide by jumping out of a window don't turn up anyone with a
> similar name or associated with Lasater.
>
> 12. Dr. Donald Rogers - dentist. Killed in a suspicious plane crash on
his
>way to an interview with reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to reveal
>information about Clinton.
>
> On 3 March 1994 the Cessna carrying a pilot, Donald Rogers and two other
>passengers crashed. The pilot had earlier radioed in that he was
experiencing
> electrical trouble. The plane went down far off its planned route and
>judging from the map and magnifying glass found in the front of the plane,
>the pilot was good and lost when they went down.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 13. Stanley Huggins - lawyer investigating Madison Guaranty. Suicide. His
> extensive report has never been released.
>
> How anyone can confuse dying of pneumonia with suicide is beyond me.
Huggins
> died on 23 June 1994. According Dr. Richard Callery,
> Delaware's top medical examiner, viral myocarditis and bronchial
pneumonia
> killed Huggins. Lt. Joel Ivory of the University of Delaware police said
his
> "exhaustive" investigation of Huggins's death turned up
> "no sign at all of foul play."
>
> 14. Florence Martin - Accountant for the CIA and had information on the
>Barry Seal case. Three gunshot wounds to the head.
>
> Try as I might, I can't find any record of this person. No obituary, no
news
> stories about the shooting, nothing.
>
> 15. Suzane Coleman - reportedly had an affair with Clinton. Was seven
>months pregnant at the time she was found dead of a gun shot wound to the
>back of the head, ruled suicide.
>
> At the time of Susan Coleman's suicide, Bill Clinton was her law
professor.
>In 1992 an overzealous supporter of George Bush hired investigators to
>probe this girl's 1977 suicide. They found no evidence that the two had
even
>had an affair. It was an old rumour and a baseless one, and even a
>determined attempt at muckraking turned up nothing to substantiate it.
>
> 16. Paula Grober - Clinton's interpreter for the deaf. Traveled with
Clinton
> from 1978 until her death in 1992 in a one-car accident. There were no
> witnesses.
>
> The accident took place during the afternoon of 7 December 1992. Paula
>Gober's
> car overturned at a curve in the highway, throwing her 33 feet from the
>vehicle.
> No one witnessed the accident.
>
> 17. Paul Wilcher - attorney investigating corruption. He had investigated
>federal elections, drug and gun smuggling through Mena, the Waco incident,
>and had just delivered a lengthy report to Janet Reno. He died in his home
>of unknown causes.
>
> Wilcher's partially decomposed body was found seated on the toilet in his
> Washington D.C. home on 22 June 1993. His death was attributed to natural
> causes. According to The Washington Times, "...he was
> investigating the theory of an 'October Surprise' conspiracy during the
1980
> federal election campaign. He had been interviewing an inmate who claimed
to
> have piloted George Bush to Paris so he could secretly seek to delay the
>release
> of 52 American hostages in Iran."
>
> 18. Jon Parnell Walker - RTC investigator who mysteriously fell to his
death
> from an apartment balcony.
>
> I can find nothing about this man, not a report of his death or of his
being
>an
> Resolution Trust Corporation investigator. Various lists state this
tragedy
> happened on 15 August 1993 at the Lincoln Towers in
> Arlington, Virginia, but nothing shows up in the newspapers about it.
>
> 19. Ron Brown - former DNS Chairman, Commerce Secretary. Reported to have
>died in a plane crash, but new evidence reveals he may have been shot in
the
>head. He was being investigated by a special investigator and was about to
>be indicted with 54 others. He spoke publicly of his willingness to "make
a
>deal" with the prosecutors to save himself a few days before the fatal
trip.
>He was not supposed to be on the flight but was asked to go at the last
>minute. (This count does not include the other business leaders and other
>passengers who died on this government-sponsored trade mission.)
>
> What new evidence? Ron Brown and 34 others were killed in a plane crash
in
> Croatia on 3 April 1993. The plane slammed into a mountain during a
violent
> storm while on landing approach. There were no survivors.
>
> As for this nonsense about Brown being shot in the head, immediately
after
>the crash pathologists on the scene said most of the bodies (Brown's among
>them) were so badly burned DNA testing had to be performed to identify who
>was who. A body has to be in really bad shape if fingerprints can't be
>lifted, dental charts can't be compared to remains. Had Brown been shot in
>the head, no one at the crash site would have known from looking at him.
>
> A lot has been made of an x-ray of Brown's skull in which what looks like
a
> round entry wound appears. Identical perfectly round marks show up in the
x-
>rays of other victims taken at the same time. Particles in a faulty x-ray
>cassette account for all of them. Closer examination of Brown's skull by
>military officials revealed no bullet, no bone fragments, no metal
fragments
>and, even more telling, no exit wound.
>
> 20. Barbara Wise - Commerce Department secretary. Worked with Ron Brown
and
>John Huang and had extensive knowledge of their activities. Found dead in
>her locked office the day after Thanksgiving. It was ruled a suicide.
>Interestingly, she was found partially clothed, bruised, and in a pool of
>blood.
>
> There was no pool of blood, no bruising, and Barbara Wise's death was
never
> ruled a suicide by anyone. She was discovered in her Commerce Department
>office on 29 November 1996 after last being seen alive on 27 November 1996,
>the day before Thanksgiving. A thorough investigation uncovered no
evidence
>of foul play or suicide. Wise had a history of frequent and severe health
>problems, including liver ailments. Her death was attributed to natural
>causes.
>
> 21. Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce. John Huang was
>given a special security clearance by Meissner. Shortly thereafter, he
died
>in the crash of a small plane.
>
> Charles Meissner died in the same plane crash that took the life of Ron
>Brown, the one on in Croatia on 3 April 1993. 14 Commerce Department
>staffers died in that crash, Meissner and Brown among them.
>
> 22 & 23. Kevin Ives and Don Henry - seventeen-year-old boys who
apparently
>saw something related to drugs in Mena by accident late at night.
Officially
>ruled an accidental death on the train tracks, but evidence shows they
died
>before being placed on the tracks - one of a crushed skull and the other of
>a knife wound in the back.
>
> We're now entering an involved segment of the list wherein a number of
>deaths will be said to be tied to those of Ives and Henry. Ives and Henry
>were murdered, something a piss-poor medical examiner missed when he
didn't
>bother to look beyond the obvious.
>
> Henry and Ives were run over by a train on 23 Aug 1987. Dr. Fahmy Malak,
>Arkansas' former state medical examiner, ruling the deaths accidental,
said
>the teens fell asleep on the tracks after smoking marijuana. A 1988 Saline
>County grand jury determined the boys were murdered and their bodies
>afterwards laid on the tracks, but no other conclusions were reached and no
>indictments were returned. The FBI is still investigating the deaths.
>
> A number of Malak's determinations had been challenged and overturned
during
>his
> career. He certainly wasn't always a
> conscientious medical examiner, and his Ives and Henry rulings were only
two
>of
> many such botchings.
>
> Getting back to the real meat of who killed the boys, nothing ties Ives
and
> Henry to Clinton. Though various of these lists will claim the boys
>accidentally stumbled onto a "protected" drug drop and were killed for it,
>there's no reason to believe even that. In a 25 May 1990 hearing before
U.S.
>Magistrate Henry Jones Jr., Katherine Brightop said her ex-boyfriend Paul
>William Criswell told her he and three other men were involved in the
>teen-agers' deaths. Brightop said Criswell told her the boys tried to
steal
>cocaine from Callaway's home and they were caught and beaten to death
before
>their bodies were placed on the tracks.
>
> Ripping off a drug dealer will get you killed.
>
> 24. Keith Koney - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Died in a
> motorcycle accident with reports of a high-speed car chased involved.
>
> 19-year-old Keith Coney died on 17 May 1988 when the motorcycle he was
>driving struck the back of a tractor-trailer. He was riding a motorcycle
>he'd stolen the day before. There were no reports of a high-speed car
chase.
>
> 25. Keith McKaskle - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Stabbed
>to death.
>
> In August 1989, Ronald Shane Smith was sentenced to ten years for the 10
> November 1988 murder of Keith McKaskle. McKaskle had earlier expressed
fears
>for
> his life, linking them to his knowing something about "the railroad track
> thing". Smith may have been paid to kill McKaskle as a prison inmate said
he
>had
> been approached and offered $4,000 to kill McKaskle.
>
> 26. Gregory Collins - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Gunshot
> wound to the head.
>
> 25-year-old Greg Collins of Bryant was found shot in woods near Rosston
on 2
> Dec. 1989.
>
> 27. Jeff Rhodes - had information on the Ives and Henry and McKaskle
deaths.
> Tortured, mutilated, shot, body burned in a dumpster.
>
> In July 1989 Frank Pilcher was arrested for the April 1989 murder of
>Jeffrey Rhodes. Rhodes had earlier told his father he feared for his life
>because he'd witnessed a narcotics transaction.
>
> Rhodes was last seen alive on April 3. His body was discovered in a
>dumpster on April 19. He'd been shot twice in the head and his body was
>badly burned. The body was likely burned in an effort to destroy forensic
>evidence that would led investigators to the murderer.
>
> 28. James Milam - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. He was
> decapitated. The coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
>
> I've a feeling this is going to be my favourite entry. Remember that
>Arkansas medical examiner, the one I said wasn't always the most
>conscientious investigator on God's green earth? Yep, we're about to see
him
>again. Fahmy Malek listed James Milam's cause of death as a perforated
>ulcer, adding that Milam's small dog afterwards ate the dead man's head,
>accounting for Milam's headless condition.
>
> Milam's daughter-in-law insists Milam was murdered. She claims Malak
showed
>her
> photographs of the headless corpse, and the neck was cut clean. The Milam
>family
> has not attempted to legally challenge the ruling because of the expense,
so
> we'll never know which way the cat jumps, ulcer or murder.
>
> The best for last though. Ives and Henry died three months after the
>72-year- old man Milam was called to glory. What are we supposed to
believe
>here, the Clinton conspirators knocked off someone who "had information
on
>the Ives and Henry deaths" three months before they did away with Ives and
>Henry? Wow; talk about a preemptive strike!
>
> 29. Jordan Kettleson - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Found
>shot
> in the front seat of his pickup truck.
>
> 21-year-old Jordan Ketelsen died on 25 June 1990.
>
> 30. Dr. Stanley Heard - Chair, National Chiropractic HealthCare Advisory
>Committee. He personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother.
>His personal small plane eveloped problems so he rented another. Fire
broke
>out in flight and he crashed.
>
> Stanley Heard and Stephen Dickson died on 10 September 1993 when their
>single- engine Cherokee caught fire shortly after takeoff from Dulles
>airport then crashed. They'd attended a briefing that morning on the
Clinton
>administration's health care plan. Dickson's plane developed mechanical
>problems on the way to Washington the week before, so Dickson and Heard
>rented the Cherokee in St. Louis to make the trip.
>
> Here is what the NTSB had to say about this crash.
>
> I've found nothing on the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory
> that Heard was supposedly the chair of.
>
> 31. Steve Dickson - attorney for Heard. Died in same plane crash.
>
> Dickson attended the same briefing Heard did. I do not know if he was
there
>as Heard's lawyer or independent of him.
>
> 32. John Hillier - video journalist and investigator. He helped to
produce
>the documentaries "Circle of Power," and "The Clinton Chronicles." He
>mysteriously died in a dentist's chair for no apparent reason.
>
> Again, I can find no record of this man's death or of his work. There
have
>been
> a few dental chair deaths, but I find nothing on his.
>
> 33. Maj. Gen. William Robertson
> 34. Col. William Densberger
> 35. Col. Robert Kelly
> 36. Spec. Gary Rhodes
> 37. Steve Willis
> 38. Robert Williams
> 39. Conway LeBleu
> 40. Todd McKeehan
> 41. Sgt. Brian Haney
> 42. Sgt. Tim Sabel
> 43. Maj.William Barkley
> 44. Capt. Scott Reynolds
> * all former Clinton bodyguards who are dead.
>
> There's no reason to believe any of these lads were bodyguards who
attended
> Clinton. Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan and Conway LeBleu
>were Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents killed during the Waco
>confrontation on 28 February 1993.
>
> Brian Haney, Timothy Sabel, William Barkley and Scott Reynolds died in a
>helicopter crash on 19 May 1993. These four were members of Marine
>Helicopter Squadron One, the unit responsible for transporting the
>President. They died when the Blackhawk helicopter they had taken out for a
>maintenance-evaluation flight crashed. There was no evidence of sabotage.
>Clinton had set foot in the aircraft on only one occasion, two months
before,
> when he traveled from the White House to the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
>
> Jarrett Robertson, William Densberger, Robert Kelly and Gary Rhodes died
in
>a helicopter crash in Weisbaden, Germany on 23 February 1993.
>
> 45. Gary Johnson - former attorney for Larry Nichols, severely beaten and
>left for dead.
>
> Again, I can find nothing on this incident or even this man's life.
>
> 46. Dennis Patrick - had millions of dollars laundered through his
account
>at Lasater & Co. without his knowledge. There have been several attempts
on
>his life, all unsuccessful.
>
> It's hard to know what to say about this one. Though I find credible
>reference to Patrick's life having been in danger a few times, I'm unable
>to trace back to news reports on the original incidents. Without seeing
>them, I'm not confident in stating an opinion on whether or not those
>attempts took place.
>
> Patrick was a client of Lasater, albeit a reluctant one. He was asked to
>open an account there, he refused, one was opened for him anyway, and he
was
>handed "profits" from one transaction for his part in allowing whatever was
>going on to take place. Again, someone who got involved with drug dealers
>ended up in trouble. In this case, an otherwise upstanding man took money
he
>knew to be dirty to keep quiet about what his account was being used for.
If
>he's now being chased by drug dealers who don't want the details of the
>transactions to come to light, is that all that surprising?
>
> 47. L.J. Davis - reporter. While investigating the Clinton scandals he
was
> attacked in his hotel room and his notes were taken. He survived.
>
> Davis said he had awakened in his hotel room with a big bump on his head.
>He soon after admitted drinking at least four martinis that night. No
pages
>were missing from his notebook, and he had no idea how he ended up on the
>floor. "I certainly wasn't about to conclude that somebody cracked me on
the
>head," Davis said at the time.
>
> 48. Larry Nichols - former marketing director of ADFA. Responsible for
>bringing forth more evidence and witnesses on Clinton corruption than any
>other source. Very public about his claims against Clinton. He has
suffered
>six beatings, arrest on trumped up charges, and a near arrest.
>
> In 1988 Larry Nichols, then a marketing director for the Arkansas
>Development Finance Authority, was fired from his job for making hundreds
of
>calls to the Nicaraguan contras from his office. In 1990 he filed a
lawsuit
>against Clinton claiming the then-Governor of Arkansas and others made him
>the scapegoat in a misappropriation-of-funds charge that cost him his job.
>In that suit he also tossed in claims of extramarital affairs, naming five
>women Clinton was supposed to have chased across the sheets. Nichols
>withdrew his lawsuit in 1992 and issued a round of apologies to everyone
>involved. He admitted what he'd said had been an attempt to destroy the
>Governor by innuendo.
>
> Nichols has since changed his tune yet again, and has returned to making
> allegations against Clinton, always being careful to stop just short of
> asserting Clinton is involved in various murders and other crimes Nichols
>points
> to as "suspicious."
>
> Since his dismissal from the AFDA, Nichols has made a career of peddling
>anti- Bill Clinton books and tapes to the lunatic fringe. Take anything
>claimed about or by this man with a huge grain of salt.
>
> Now, ask yourself: how many people with whom you were acquainted have
died
> mysteriously or violently in the past 10 years?
>
> The bottom line on this piece of e-lore? It's a badly worked laundry list
>dressed up to appear significant. The promised damning connections to the
>Chief Executive are missing, with innuendo and barefaced misinformation
>offered up in its place. Nothing ties Clinton to any of these deaths,
>something this list (and others of its ilk) conveniently glosses past.
Where
>is the smoking gun? What evidence is offered that would compel a rational
>person to believe there was Clinton involvement in any of these deaths?
>
> Clinton was acquainted with some people who died -- that's about all one
>can make of this list. Indeed, that's far more than can be made of a
number
>of the entries, specifically, those of Ives and Henry and all those
>supposedly tied to theirs.
>
> Though it's clear from digging through numerous newspaper articles there
is
>a thriving and dangerous drug culture in Little Rock, how or why this
should
>be connected to Bill Clinton is left unanswered. Regrettably, Little Rock
>is akin to numerous other large cities: it has its share of drug dealers,
>murders, and violence. It also has one very famous citizen. And that's
>about as much of a connection as anyone can make.
>
> Getting back to the list proper, there are a number of suicides
enumerated
>therein. Far from being an unusual mode of demise, suicide claims 32,000
>lives in the U.S. every year -- it's the 9th leading cause of death. It is
>indeed a rare person indeed who does not know someone who died by his own
>hand.
>
> Deaths by airplane crash account for a number of entries on the list.
>Again, this is not all that surprising. Every year a number of small planes
>crash in the United States, and some of those crashes result in
fatalities.
>As mentioned above, the National Transportation Safety Board investigates
>every one of them, looking both to determine the cause of the accident as
>well as to gather data that will help prevent further tragedies. The agency
>does a thorough job of looking into the circumstances surrounding each
>downed plane. To describe any of the plane crash deaths on this list as
>"suspicious" is to suggest the NTSB was part of a coverup.
>
> There have been a couple of unsolved murders (Mary Mahoney and Jerry
Parks),
>but
> there have also been deaths by natural causes that
> appear to have been tossed willy nilly into the mix in an effort to
increase
>the
> count. (Like I said earlier, how can anyone claim a death
> by pneumonia was a suicide?) All the best lies make sure to mix a bit of
>truth
> in with them, and the two unsolved murders work to cloak the many less
>credible
> claims in an aura of plausibility. Don't be overly bemused by them --
study
>each
> entry on its own merits.
>
> One final question to ask yourself before falling for any Clinton Body
>Count list -- if the Chief Executive was having people bumped off left,
>right and centre, why aren't Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp's names on
this
>list? Indeed, why not Kenneth Starr? Wouldn't it make more sense to knock
>off the ones whose allegations have harmed the President?
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
mila...@my-dejanews.com
critic@large
her life was in danger. That was why she decided to come forward. And Monica
Lewinski was recorded by Tripp as saying that she didn't want to end up like
Mary Mahone, and that she knew what "they" were capable of. Just because
this information isn't reported in the mainstream media, doesn't mean it
isn't true.
mila...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70bql8$ed$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Received this from someone who took the time and energy to find out for
>themselves:
>
>
MASSIVE SNIP
rose...@mail.idt.net
>As a matter of fact, Linda Tripp testified to the Grand Jury that she felt
>her life was in danger. That was why she decided to come forward. And Monica
>Lewinski was recorded by Tripp as saying that she didn't want to end up like
>Mary Mahone, and that she knew what "they" were capable of. Just because
>this information isn't reported in the mainstream media, doesn't mean it
>isn't true.
and just because you're loony enought to believe it is, doesn't make
it true either.
rose...@mail.idt.net
>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
So, are you saying you're one of the nuts who believe they are because
of something clinton did?
Krow
connected to the Clinton family who died. I would be willing to bet that
this kind of list could be compiled on any family...there are probably a
hundred people who were somehow connected to my family either professionally
or personally.....who have passed on......three of them were suicides that I
can remember and two were solved murder cases......then there were the
variety of natural causes...crashes...ect......so following this
logic...that would mean my family...by association is somehow responsible
for all of it? I would be willing to bet most people can compile a similar
list around thier own families if you look hard enough..but why would we
want to?
Krow
rose...@mail.idt.net wrote in message <3629f3ec....@news.idt.net>...
>"tcrpe" <tc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
>
>
Internet AgentMan (aka Karl A)
And your protestations and ad hominens don't make it false, either. Amazing
how that works, eh?
Karl A
--
The first lady has described the Arkansas land dealings known as Whitewater
as "the never-ending fictional conspiracy" that "reminds me of some
people's obsession with UFOs and the Hale-Bopp comet."
What does that say about her creation of the VRWC? She Bopp!
Rich
critic@large wrote in message <70c627$ehg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
>Lewinski was recorded by Tripp as saying that she didn't want to end up
like
>Mary Mahone, and that she knew what "they" were capable of.
This girl is not stable. you can tell from the tapes, she's young and all
caught up in this affair with the most powerful man in this land (that she
wanted) and from the original post, Mary Mahoney had NO ties to BC, but
Monica is freaking out from all the pressure that is coming down, ironically
caused by her talking to Tripp, who was talking to Goldberg, and Jones and
finally FBI & Starr, and she is imagining all sorts of things. The boogyman
was everywhere .......
That's not to say Clinton doesn't have a little 'problem' in the sexual
morals department, but he's just like the rest of us there, human. What I
find criminal is the witchhunt the GOP started and the media fed on. $$$$$
50 mil worth of witchhunt gotta buy you something huh?
Zetra
beiss...@ameritech.net
http://snopes.simplenet.com/spoons/faxlore/clinton.htm
The main page is just www.snopes.com, for those interested.
rose...@mail.idt.net
>In article <3629f440....@news.idt.net>, rose...@mail.idt.net wrote:
>
>> "critic@large" <o...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >As a matter of fact, Linda Tripp testified to the Grand Jury that she felt
>> >her life was in danger. That was why she decided to come forward. And Monica
>> >Lewinski was recorded by Tripp as saying that she didn't want to end up like
>> >Mary Mahone, and that she knew what "they" were capable of. Just because
>> >this information isn't reported in the mainstream media, doesn't mean it
>> >isn't true.
>>
>> and just because you're loony enought to believe it is, doesn't make
>> it true either.
>
>And your protestations and ad hominens don't make it false, either. Amazing
>how that works, eh?
Did you ever consider WHY people attack the messenger instead of the
"message"?
In argument, evidence and facts can be refuted, can be verified.
Those who post "belief", and unsubstantiated assertions as fact and
evidence leave little else but to point out the fallacy of the person,
not the "evidence" they post.
If it were a case of just having to refute or rebut a set of
unsubstantiated allegations just once, it's one thing. But you
loonies insist on a world where ANY statement or belief is used in
place of evidence. It becomes tiresome, it's illogical, and
downright stupid.
You (and your ilk) have a set of beliefs. (Mind you, that beliefs DO
NOT require proof.) You accept whatever this conspiratorial belief is
on faith, or some other judgment. However, it is not proven, not
substantiable, and certainly not accepted by anyone other than the
"believer". Which brings us back to "loons"
see?
J. Mach
>Received this from someone who took the time and energy to find out for
>themselves:
>
> *********************************************************************
>
> Claim: The President of the United States has been quietly doing away with
>those
> who oppose him.
>
> Status: False.
>
> Origins: A new version of a lengthy list of deaths associated with Bill
>Clinton began circulating on the the Internet in August 1998. According to
>it, there have been close to fifty suspicious deaths of colleagues,
>advisors and citizens who were about to testify against the Clintons, with
>the unstated implication that Bill Clinton or his henchmen were behind each
>untimely demise.
>
> We shouldn't have to tell anyone not to believe this claptrap, but we will
>anyway. In a frenzied media climate where the Chief Executive can't boff a
>White House intern without the whole world finding out every niggling detail
>of each encounter, it's unreasonable to assume this same man has been having
>double handfuls of detractors and former friends murdered.
>
> Clinton "body count" lists are not a new phenomenon -- they've been with us
>for years. New victim names are routinely added and old ones taken off,
>forming an endless variety of versions in circulation. At this point, there
>is no one list.
>
I think it quite amazing going down this familiar list to ask yourself
an actuarial question: How many people do you know that you come in
contact with have so many suicides and accidents?
I did an amateur calculation that the odds are in the billions taht
anynone person could know so many people who died or committed
suicide.
I disregard your inference that these were "accidents". No way.
**TEMPEST**
Well as for me, my dad died in 1980, and a business associate died on the
operating table last year, he was 84.
And that's it.
Oh yeah, my wifes parakeet died about 3 years ago. Does that count?
I buried the neighbors cat 2 weeks ago, it got hit by a car.
I would say your families losses are the exception rather than the rule.
And all the people on the jethro list is more than suspicious.
--
***TEMPEST***
"Question all things"
Krow <bat...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<70csgo$qs4$1...@Usenet.Logical.NET>...
**TEMPEST**
about the most powerful person on the planet that it could be scary?
That is why Tripp recorded the phone calls, to support any future problems
with jethro.
Otherwise, she may have ended up on the 'klinton hit list'.
Get a clue already and stop warping your brain watching primetime TV.
sheesh...
--
***TEMPEST***
"Question all things"
Rich <R-G...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
Don Ocean
What family do you belong to? La Costra Nostra? I sure wouldn't want to be
related to you. It sounds like a very short life span to me. Doesn't any one
where you are at just die of good old fashioned "Old age"? During the several
year period after John Kennedy's assassination, there were similar reports of
people close to the white house dying violent and questionable deaths. I , at
that time attributed it to the fast life styles etc. But after looking at
insurance company mortality tables - I now have deep doubts. Some people will
die violently and questionably, but -Not- in those numbers. And it took a lot
longer for as many to give up the ghost then it does for friends and neighbors
of the current Whitehouse crew. Good grief, maybe we should just elect some
organized crime figures and we won't even have to consider impeachment. They
will just eliminate one another.
Whether or not the president et. al. have anything to do with these deaths - It
is still a questionable matter! Someone or something is doing nasty things to
these people. And most of these people have been in the core of everything. In
other words, they had a lot of knowledge of what was happening behind the
scenes. Good or Bad. But this is not like the Kennedy hit. I believe in a few
years a lot of information will come to the surface that will enlighten us one
way or another. Perhaps the Dixie Mafia has a hand in it. Maybe not....
Don Ocean
Krow wrote:
> Now if I read this correctly....we have a list of those who were somehow
> connected to the Clinton family who died. I would be willing to bet that
> this kind of list could be compiled on any family...there are probably a
> hundred people who were somehow connected to my family either professionally
> or personally.....who have passed on......three of them were suicides that I
> can remember and two were solved murder cases......then there were the
> variety of natural causes...crashes...ect......so following this
> logic...that would mean my family...by association is somehow responsible
> for all of it? I would be willing to bet most people can compile a similar
> list around thier own families if you look hard enough..but why would we
> want to?
>
> Krow
>
> rose...@mail.idt.net wrote in message <3629f3ec....@news.idt.net>...
> >"tcrpe" <tc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
> >
> >
adrien...@my-dejanews.com
be involved in a murder.
Considering that I personally am or was acquainted with several hundred
people, it is not that far-fetched to speculate that 20 or so people would be
involved in foul play, ending in murder. I have one immediate family member
who committed suicide, have several relatives/friends who were involved in
fatal car crashes, and know of several people who were mugged.
I venture to guess that the President has many more acquaintences than I. It
is only logical that he would know more people who were involved in violence
or suicide.
And some of the people on the "list" don't even exist. In addition, several
of the "connections" to Clinton are the result of grasping at straws to prove
that Clinton is a murderer.
My opinion: If Clinton were inclined to murder to shut people up, than we
never would have heard of Paula Jones, Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky, Kathy
Willey, Gennifer Flowers, etc., etc., etc. What would stop him from stopping
THEM?
In article <362B0456...@ideasign.com>,
> > >>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
> > >
> > >
> > >So, are you saying you're one of the nuts who believe they are because
> > >of something clinton did?
> > >
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Ray Heizer
wrote:
< I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people will
< be involved in a murder.]
-- Some numbers from the 1993 Statistical Abstract of the United States:
In 1991 there were just under 25,000 murders (inluding nonnegligent
manslaughter) amongst the US population of just about 250,000,000 (i.e.
just one American in 10,000 was murdered that year).
-- Assuming that that rate of murder is normal, then, during an average
lifespan of 70 years one's chances of being murdered would be 10,000 / 70
= 1 in 143.
-- Even though some folks kill more than once and some folks are killed by
more than one person, if you assume there is just one murder for every
murderer, then combining murderers and their victims, the chances of being
"involved" in a murder are about 1 in 71 during one's lifetime.
< > > >>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
< > > >
< > > >
< > > >So, are you saying you're one of the nuts who believe they are because
< > > >of something clinton did?
< > > >
< >
< >
<
tcrpe
260,000,000 people in this country, and average lifespan of 76 years, that
works out to 85,526 murders per year and 85,526 murderers per year, or
234.48 murders per day.
When spoon fed liberal bull, always check the numbers
TR
adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people
will
>be involved in a murder.
>
>> > >>So, you are saying that they aren't really dead????
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >So, are you saying you're one of the nuts who believe they are because
>> > >of something clinton did?
>> > >
>>
>>
>
Max Kennedy
>My opinion: If Clinton were inclined to murder to shut people up, than we
>never would have heard of Paula Jones, Linda Tripp, Monica Lewinsky
> Kathy Willey,
We didn't. Kathleen Willey's husband Ed Willey was shot dead in the woods at
the same time Clinton was groping her in the White House.
Clinton did not help Ed Willey balance his books between DNC donations and money
owed to clients. Instead he raped his wife while Ed Willey was being killed.
I am not saying Clinton is a murderer, only that he has a perfect alibi, and can
plead to the lesser offense of sexual assault.
Max Kennedy
^^HARBINGER^^
It is 100% effective.
I hope to go in my sleep.
Not like my grey haired daddy that went screaming and kicking as the bus he
drove went over the cliff.
--
^^HARBINGER^^
VRWC, SOG, LRP
nigh...@hell.com
adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
Dan O
adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people
will
> be involved in a murder.
>
Good God, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read!
There would be dump trucks fool of bodies being filled by skiploaders in
the streets of major cities. Their would be mass graves!
Jesus where does this shit come from?
fores...@my-dejanews.com
> be involved in a murder.
>
I guess that I'm safe, cuz O.J. and his wife were in the twenty people that
I'm in.
Who Cares?
<01bdfbe2$1e428ae0$ad85...@obtel.telis>...
>
> > I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people
> will
> > be involved in a murder.
> >
Not if you work for the President.
> There would be dump trucks fool of bodies being filled by skiploaders in
> the streets of major cities. Their would be mass graves!
>
> Jesus where does this shit come from?
The mob?
Who Cares?
<70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people
will
> be involved in a murder.
>
> people, it is not that far-fetched to speculate that 20 or so people
would be
> involved in foul play, ending in murder. I have one immediate family
member
> who committed suicide, have several relatives/friends who were involved
in
> fatal car crashes, and know of several people who were mugged.
As others have already stated, this is pathetic.
Still, it's interesting to see the original posting.
How do you explain Jerry Parks' secretary,
dragged to death behind a car? Had three or
four friends die like that, have you?
Mark Schaefer
<nigh...@hell.com> wrote:
} Time, will eventually murder all of us.
} It is 100% effective.
} I hope to go in my sleep.
} Not like my grey haired daddy that went screaming and kicking as the bus he
} drove went over the cliff.
} --
You mistold the joke. It's supposed to be: "When I die, I want to go
like my dear old grandfather: in his sleep--not like the other three
people in the car who were screaming as he drove off the cliff."
-- MaS
"In essentials--unity, in non-essentials--liberty,
and in all things--charity." -- John Wesley
Matthew Devney
>
> In article <70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, adrien...@my-dejanews.com
> wrote:
>
>
> -- Some numbers from the 1993 Statistical Abstract of the United States:
> In 1991 there were just under 25,000 murders (inluding nonnegligent
> manslaughter) amongst the US population of just about 250,000,000 (i.e.
> just one American in 10,000 was murdered that year).
>
> -- Assuming that that rate of murder is normal, then, during an average
> lifespan of 70 years one's chances of being murdered would be 10,000 / 70
> = 1 in 143.
>
> -- Even though some folks kill more than once and some folks are killed by
> more than one person, if you assume there is just one murder for every
> murderer, then combining murderers and their victims, the chances of being
> "involved" in a murder are about 1 in 71 during one's lifetime.
>
"involved."
--
Matthew Devney
========================================================================
** Pilot Network Services, Inc. (800) 811-5222 **
** 1080 Marina Village Parkway FAX (510) 433-7807 **
** Alameda, CA 94501 USA **
========================================================================
Matthew Devney
> will
> > be involved in a murder.
> >
>
> the streets of major cities. Their would be mass graves!
>
> Jesus where does this shit come from?
If we say "in volved in" could mean being either:
-A murderer
-A murder victim
-A murder witness
-A murder investigator
-Someone who inherited from a murder
Then the numbers don't sound so implausible.
UltraTrebor
I vote for Walt Horning and Hoover.
Ray Heizer
< Dan O wrote:
< >
< > adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
< > <70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
< > > I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people
< > will
< > > be involved in a murder.
< > >
< > Good God, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read!
< >
< > There would be dump trucks fool of bodies being filled by skiploaders in
< > the streets of major cities. Their would be mass graves!
< >
< > Jesus where does this shit come from?
<
< If we say "in volved in" could mean being either:
< -A murderer
< -A murder victim
< -A murder witness
< -A murder investigator
< -Someone who inherited from a murder
<
< Then the numbers don't sound so implausible.
< --
< Matthew Devney
-- Brilliant! Close to 100,000,000 Americans witnessed Ruby kill Oswald
live on TV in 1963. So maybe it should be 1 in 2, not 1 in 20 ;-)
-- Or should we talk about the incineration of Waco, witnessed live on CNN?
Dan O
Matthew Devney <mde...@pilot.net> wrote in article
<362CBA...@pilot.net>...
> Dan O wrote:
> >
> > adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
> > <70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > > I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty
people
> > will
> > > be involved in a murder.
> > >
> > Good God, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read!
> >
> > There would be dump trucks fool of bodies being filled by skiploaders
in
> > the streets of major cities. Their would be mass graves!
> >
> > Jesus where does this shit come from?
>
> If we say "in volved in" could mean being either:
> -A murderer
> -A murder victim
> -A murder witness
> -A murder investigator
> -Someone who inherited from a murder
>
> Then the numbers don't sound so implausible.
> --
> Matthew Devney
.
Is this thing degrading into one of those "what is, * IS * arguments?"
Dan O
Matthew Devney
> <
> < If we say "in volved in" could mean being either:
> < -A murderer
> < -A murder victim
> < -A murder witness
> < -A murder investigator
> < -Someone who inherited from a murder
> <
> < Then the numbers don't sound so implausible.
> < --
> < Matthew Devney
>
> live on TV in 1963. So maybe it should be 1 in 2, not 1 in 20 ;-)
>
> -- Or should we talk about the incineration of Waco, witnessed live on CNN?
I sense irony here. I was simply pointing out that the numbers may be
true -- but not necessarily meaningful.
Max Kennedy
Bait and switch, watch:
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:14:13 GMT, adrien...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people will
>be involved in a murder.
So everyone should be somehow connected to *a* murder. Bait.
>I venture to guess that the President has many more acquaintences than I. It
>is only logical that he would know more people who were involved in violence
>or suicide.
Switch. Clinton, our fearless chief, is connected to *no* murders. They are
all, all of them, accidents and suicides. Every one of them.
Meanwhile, as I recall, one of those "suicides" left a suicide note behind that
was forged. What is the statistical chance that a suicide forged his own
suicide note after he died?
Max Kennedy
Max Kennedy
>> -- Brilliant! Close to 100,000,000 Americans witnessed Ruby kill Oswald
>> live on TV in 1963. So maybe it should be 1 in 2, not 1 in 20 ;-)
>>
>> -- Or should we talk about the incineration of Waco, witnessed live on CNN?
>
>I sense irony here. I was simply pointing out that the numbers may be
>true -- but not necessarily meaningful.
Someone did a (good) analysis of the deaths surrounding Clinton a few years ago.
I'm surprised no one has reposted it. On the other hand, the corpses have
piled up quite a bit higher since then, what with Wise, Miller, McDougal and a
few other significant people involved in these scandals dying under suspicious
circumstances, so the probability is even less.
None of these people were pulled in randomly to fill up a death list. They
were all key players in current scandals when they died. A few were even
predicted as being in a dangerous position to die when they did.
Max Kennedy
xkag...@ecr.net
wrote:
>Ray Heizer wrote:
>>
>> In article <70g6il$2ag$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, adrien...@my-dejanews.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> < I remember very distinctly learning in school that one in twenty people will
>> < be involved in a murder.]
>>
>> -- Some numbers from the 1993 Statistical Abstract of the United States:
>> In 1991 there were just under 25,000 murders (inluding nonnegligent
>> manslaughter) amongst the US population of just about 250,000,000 (i.e.
>> just one American in 10,000 was murdered that year).
>>
>> -- Assuming that that rate of murder is normal, then, during an average
>> lifespan of 70 years one's chances of being murdered would be 10,000 / 70
>> = 1 in 143.
>>
>> -- Even though some folks kill more than once and some folks are killed by
>> more than one person, if you assume there is just one murder for every
>> murderer, then combining murderers and their victims, the chances of being
>> "involved" in a murder are about 1 in 71 during one's lifetime.
If you REALLY want to use these numbers to prove that X number of
people associated with Bill Clinton could be expected to be murdered,
then you must note that nearly all of Clinton's alleged victims were
white.
Please go back to the 1993 Statistical Abstract and adjust for race.
Don
I want to say one thing to the American people. I want
you to listen to me ...
I DID NOT have sexual relations with that woman, Miss
Lewinsky. Those charges are FALSE!"
Any questions?
words...@webtv.net
too. Natural causes though seems to be the question here.
HAROLD RENNINGER
currently occupying the whitehouse, is of the same pot-smoking,
draft-dodging, womanizing. whore-mungering, lying, incredibly stupid
character he is.
HAVE A GREAT DAY>>>>HAROLD
tcrpe
know.
TR.
Max Kennedy wrote in message <362cf1c4....@news.iglou.com>...
Stephen Spencer
attributed to being associated with Clinton. I guess I have to believe that
all these people involved in cases with him or against him were all pretty
much suicidal. I mean...so many suicide notes in so few years. And that
Commerce department...anybody still there...left alive?
Consider this then, when Clinton took office, he fired every U.S. Attorney
in the United States and appointed his own. He had a new Attorney General
and new FBI director as well as the military. In Arkasas, he fired the
state coroners and hired his own. Can you imagine...just for a second...how
difficult it is in this picture to gather credible evidence in crimes he may
have committed?
We cannot believe the explanations above or any defense of Clinton. It is
impossible. There is no credibility. Too much conflict of interest on his
part in the process. Granted a few don't belong on the list, but the list
is too damn long not to consider its weight.
Verdict: Clinton is a serial killer.
SJS.
mila...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<70bql8$ed$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Received this from someone who took the time and energy to find out for
>themselves:
>
> *********************************************************************
>
> Claim: The President of the United States has been quietly doing away
with
>those
> who oppose him.
>
> Status: False.
>
> Origins: A new version of a lengthy list of deaths associated with Bill
>Clinton began circulating on the the Internet in August 1998. According to
>it, there have been close to fifty suspicious deaths of colleagues,
>advisors and citizens who were about to testify against the Clintons, with
>the unstated implication that Bill Clinton or his henchmen were behind
each
>untimely demise.
>
> We shouldn't have to tell anyone not to believe this claptrap, but we
will
>anyway. In a frenzied media climate where the Chief Executive can't boff a
>White House intern without the whole world finding out every niggling
detail
>of each encounter, it's unreasonable to assume this same man has been
having
>double handfuls of detractors and former friends murdered.
>
> Clinton "body count" lists are not a new phenomenon -- they've been with
us
>for years. New victim names are routinely added and old ones taken off,
>forming an endless variety of versions in circulation. At this point,
there
>is no one list.
>
> But where did all this craziness start? In 1994, in a letter to
>congressional leaders, former Rep. William Dannemeyer listed 24 people
with
>some connection to Clinton who had died "under other than natural
>circumstances" and called for hearings on the matter.
>
> Dannemeyer's list of "suspicious deaths" was largely taken from one
compiled
>by
> Linda Thompson, an Indianapolis lawyer who in 1993 quit her one-year-old
>general
> practice to run her American Justice Federation, a for-profit group that
> promotes pro-gun causes and various conspiracy theories through a
shortwave
> radio program, a computer bulletin board and sales of its newsletter and
>videos.
>
> Her list, called "The Clinton Body Count: Coincidence or the Kiss of
>Death?" then contained the names of 34 people she believed died
suspiciously
>and who had ties to the Clinton family. Thompson admitted she had "no
direct
>evidence" of Clinton killing anyone. Indeed, she said the deaths were
>probably caused by "people trying to control the President" but refused to
>say who they were. Thompson said her allegations of murder "seem
groundless
>only because the mainstream media haven't done enough digging."
>
> Ah, but they had. If not before she put her list together, at least
>afterwards.
> Anyone who continues to state the mainstream media has
> given these claims short shrift is being disingenuous.
>
> Since 1994, various respected news outlets have been confronted with
>versions of the "Clinton Body Count" list, run their own investigations of
a
>few of the claims, and found nothing to substantiate what they looked
into.
>Those investigations would culminate in yet another story about an oddball
>conspiracy rumour.
>
> Ah, but conspiracy theories don't die that easily. These "body count"
lists
>and
> the many specious claims contained therein continue to
> circulate in cyberspace and beyond as yesterday's newspaper articles are
> forgotten with the next day's delivery whereas e-mail lives forever.
>
> Let's take this new version apart line by line. The sections which appear
> indented are the "Clinton Body Count" e-mail, while the
> nonindented sections that follow are my comments.
>
> Much of the evidence will never be known because many people who were
>witnesses
> or who possessed evidence of some kind suffered mysterious deaths prior
to
>being
> able to come forward. The list compiled here is not complete and is not
> detailed. It is presented to show how extensive the problem is and to
>illustrate
> that all these deaths could not be just a coincidence.
>
> 1. Mary Mohane - former White House intern gunned down in a coffee shop.
>Nothing
> was taken. It was suspected that she was about to testify about sexual
> harassment at the White House.
>
> Former White House intern Mary Mahoney, manager of a Georgetown
Starbucks,
>was killed along with two co-workers on 6 July 1997 during what police
>believe was a robbery of the shop. Their killers have yet to be found. No
>evidence has surfaced that Mahoney had anything to say about sexual
>harrassment in the White House, let alone was on the verge of coming
>forward. Mahoney and her co- workers were murdered. Why and by whom is
>anyone's guess.
>
> 2. Vincent Foster - former White House Counsel, found dead of a gunshot
>wound to the head and ruled a suicide. He had significant knowledge of the
>Clintons' financial affairs and was a business partner with Hillary. If
the
>Clintons are guilty of the crimes they are accused of by Larry Klayman,
>Vincent Foster would have detailed knowledge of those crimes.
>
> This laundry list of deaths always refers to someone taking his life as
>"ruled a suicide," thus implying another conclusion of equal likelihood
was
>capriciously dismissed by someone who had the power to do so. From here
on,
>read "ruled a suicide" as "an investigation was carried out, arriving at
>this as the only reasonable conclusion."
>
> Vince Foster committed suicide on the night of 20 July 1993 by shooting
>himself once in the head. A note in the form of a draft resignation
letter
>was found in the bottom of his briefcase a week after his death. Foster
>cited negative Wall Street Journal editorials about him. He was also upset
>about the much- criticized role of the counsel's office in the
controversial
>firing of seven White House travel office workers.
>
> Two separate investigations were held into his death. Both concluded
Foster
>died
> by his own hand.
>
> 3. C. Victor Raiser, II - former National Finance Co-Chairman of Clinton
for
> President, and Montgomery Raiser, his son. Both died in a suspicious
private
> plane crash in Alaska. No cause determined. Raiser was considered to be a
>major
> player on the Clinton team.
>
> By definition, all plane crashes are suspicious. Airplanes are supposed
to
>stay in the air, and when they don't it's because something went terribly
>wrong. Pilot error and mechanical failure are by far the most common
causes
>underlying any crash. The National Transportation Safety Board investigates
>every downed plane in the U.S. Though they might not always pin down the
>exact cause of a crash, they're generally pretty good about ruling out the
>use of explosives or of something mechanical being tampered with. Putting
it
>more clearly, if they don't find evidence of tampering or explosives,
that's
>not what downed the plane. We're then back to our old friends pilot error
>and mechanical failure.
>
> Raiser, his son, and three others died in a plane crash in Alaska on 30
>July 1992 during a fishing trip. The pilot and another passenger survived
>and were hospitalized with severe burns. As for no cause for the crash
being
>determined, a small plane was flying in bad weather. It's awfully easy
for
>something to go wrong in those conditions.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 4. Paul Tully - DNC Political Director, was found dead in a Little Rock
>hotel room. No cause was ever determined and no autopsy was allowed. Tully
>was a key member of the damage control squad and came up with some of the
>Clinton strategies.
>
> Paul Tully died on 24 September 1992. Contrary to the claim that an
autopsy
> wasn't allowed, one was performed and Tully's cause of death determined
>(massive heart attack). According to news reports at the time, "An autopsy
by
> the Arkansas medical examiner's office discovered advanced coronary artery
>disease," said Steve Nawojczyk, the Pulaski County coroner. He added that
>investigators found no evidence of external trauma to the body. At the time
>of his death, Tully was massively overweight and a heavy drinker and
smoker.
>
> 5. Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser. Found in the woods in Virginia with a
> gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
>
> Ed Willey had stolen $275,000 of a client's money and was about half a
>million dollars in debt to the IRS. He was a desperate, unstable man. He
>took his own life on 29 November 1993. A note found by his wife said,
>"Saying I'm sorry doesn't begin to explain. I hope one day you will
forgive
>me." Murder victims don't leave suicide notes.
>
> Interestingly enough, at the same time as Willey was killing himself, his
>wife was being groped by Clinton. She'd gone to the Chief Executive
looking
>for a job to help her family out of its financial crisis and found herself
>fending off Clinton's advances. Clinton admits to the meeting but denies
her
>version of what went on during it. Kathleen Willey testified in Paula
Jones'
>harrassment suit against Clinton.
>
> 6. Hershell Friday - Clinton fund-raiser. His plane exploded.
>
> Herschel Friday died on 1 March 1994. His plane did not explode, it
crashed
> during an attempted landing on his private airfield. The
> 73-year-old Friday was its pilot. No one else was aboard. It was a dusk
>landing
> in drizzle with an elderly man at the controls.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 7. Jerry Parks - former security team member for Governor Clinton. Prior
to
>his death he had compiled an extensive file on Clinton's activities. His
>family had reported being followed and his home broken into just before
>being gunned down at a deserted intersection.
>
> On 26 September 1993, Jerry Parks was hit with ten bullets as he left a
>Mexican
> restaurant in Little Rock. His murderer has yet to be found.
>
> Parks' security company guarded Clinton's campaign headquarters in 1992.
>His son, Gary, asserts in both Circle of Power and The Clinton Chronicles
>(both videos are products of Linda Thompson's American Justice Federation)
>that his father collected a secret file of the president's alleged
>indiscretions.
>
> The younger Parks' allegations aside, a suspect in the killings is Jerry
>Parks'
> former partner.
>
> 8. John Wilson - former Washington D.C. council member. Had ties to
>Whitewater.
> Died of a very suspicious hanging suicide.
>
> There was nothing suspicious about this suicide. John Wilson had tried to
>kill himself on four previous occasions. On 19 May 1993 he finally
>succeeded. Police said he did not leave a note and there were no signs of
>foul play.
>
> 9. Kathy Ferguson - former wife of Arkansas State Trooper Danny Ferguson,
>the co-defendant with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Found dead
in
>her living room of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.
>Interestingly, her packed suitcases seemed to indicate she was about to go
>somewhere.
>
> Kathy Ferguson killed herself in the manner described on 11 May 1993. A
>suicide note was found beside her body but I can find no record of packed
>bags by the door. The relationship between Ferguson and her live-in
>boyfriend, Bill Shelton, had fallen on hard times. Her daughter told
police
>Ferguson had been upset over a note from Shelton. Now which is more
likely:
>a live-in relationship gone bad prompting a uicide, or an ex-husband
passing
>sensitive information to the woman he's no longer married to?
>
> 10. Bill Shelton - Arkansas state trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson.
> Allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at her grave.
>
> Shelton killed himself over Ferguson's grave on 12 June 1993. A suicide
note
>was
> found beside his body. There's nothing mysterious
> about his death or his reasons for taking his life.
>
> 11. Gandy Baugh - attorney for Dan Lasater in a financial misconduct
case.
> Supposedly jumped out the window of a tall building to commit suicide.
>
> I can find no record of anyone with that name. No obituary notice, no
news
>story
> on the death, nothing. Even searches for lawyers
> committing suicide by jumping out of a window don't turn up anyone with a
> similar name or associated with Lasater.
>
> 12. Dr. Donald Rogers - dentist. Killed in a suspicious plane crash on
his
>way to an interview with reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to reveal
>information about Clinton.
>
> On 3 March 1994 the Cessna carrying a pilot, Donald Rogers and two other
>passengers crashed. The pilot had earlier radioed in that he was
experiencing
> electrical trouble. The plane went down far off its planned route and
>judging from the map and magnifying glass found in the front of the plane,
>the pilot was good and lost when they went down.
>
> See what the NTSB had to say about this accident.
>
> 13. Stanley Huggins - lawyer investigating Madison Guaranty. Suicide. His
> extensive report has never been released.
>
> How anyone can confuse dying of pneumonia with suicide is beyond me.
Huggins
> died on 23 June 1994. According Dr. Richard Callery,
> Delaware's top medical examiner, viral myocarditis and bronchial
pneumonia
> killed Huggins. Lt. Joel Ivory of the University of Delaware police said
his
> "exhaustive" investigation of Huggins's death turned up
> "no sign at all of foul play."
>
> 14. Florence Martin - Accountant for the CIA and had information on the
>Barry Seal case. Three gunshot wounds to the head.
>
> Try as I might, I can't find any record of this person. No obituary, no
news
> stories about the shooting, nothing.
>
> 15. Suzane Coleman - reportedly had an affair with Clinton. Was seven
>months pregnant at the time she was found dead of a gun shot wound to the
>back of the head, ruled suicide.
>
> At the time of Susan Coleman's suicide, Bill Clinton was her law
professor.
>In 1992 an overzealous supporter of George Bush hired investigators to
>probe this girl's 1977 suicide. They found no evidence that the two had
even
>had an affair. It was an old rumour and a baseless one, and even a
>determined attempt at muckraking turned up nothing to substantiate it.
>
> 16. Paula Grober - Clinton's interpreter for the deaf. Traveled with
Clinton
> from 1978 until her death in 1992 in a one-car accident. There were no
> witnesses.
>
> The accident took place during the afternoon of 7 December 1992. Paula
>Gober's
> car overturned at a curve in the highway, throwing her 33 feet from the
>vehicle.
> No one witnessed the accident.
>
> 17. Paul Wilcher - attorney investigating corruption. He had investigated
>federal elections, drug and gun smuggling through Mena, the Waco incident,
>and had just delivered a lengthy report to Janet Reno. He died in his home
>of unknown causes.
>
> Wilcher's partially decomposed body was found seated on the toilet in his
> Washington D.C. home on 22 June 1993. His death was attributed to natural
> causes. According to The Washington Times, "...he was
> investigating the theory of an 'October Surprise' conspiracy during the
1980
> federal election campaign. He had been interviewing an inmate who claimed
to
> have piloted George Bush to Paris so he could secretly seek to delay the
>release
> of 52 American hostages in Iran."
>
> 18. Jon Parnell Walker - RTC investigator who mysteriously fell to his
death
> from an apartment balcony.
>
> I can find nothing about this man, not a report of his death or of his
being
>an
> Resolution Trust Corporation investigator. Various lists state this
tragedy
> happened on 15 August 1993 at the Lincoln Towers in
> Arlington, Virginia, but nothing shows up in the newspapers about it.
>
> 19. Ron Brown - former DNS Chairman, Commerce Secretary. Reported to have
>died in a plane crash, but new evidence reveals he may have been shot in
the
>head. He was being investigated by a special investigator and was about to
>be indicted with 54 others. He spoke publicly of his willingness to "make
a
>deal" with the prosecutors to save himself a few days before the fatal
trip.
>He was not supposed to be on the flight but was asked to go at the last
>minute. (This count does not include the other business leaders and other
>passengers who died on this government-sponsored trade mission.)
>
> What new evidence? Ron Brown and 34 others were killed in a plane crash
in
> Croatia on 3 April 1993. The plane slammed into a mountain during a
violent
> storm while on landing approach. There were no survivors.
>
> As for this nonsense about Brown being shot in the head, immediately
after
>the crash pathologists on the scene said most of the bodies (Brown's among
>them) were so badly burned DNA testing had to be performed to identify who
>was who. A body has to be in really bad shape if fingerprints can't be
>lifted, dental charts can't be compared to remains. Had Brown been shot in
>the head, no one at the crash site would have known from looking at him.
>
> A lot has been made of an x-ray of Brown's skull in which what looks like
a
> round entry wound appears. Identical perfectly round marks show up in the
x-
>rays of other victims taken at the same time. Particles in a faulty x-ray
>cassette account for all of them. Closer examination of Brown's skull by
>military officials revealed no bullet, no bone fragments, no metal
fragments
>and, even more telling, no exit wound.
>
> 20. Barbara Wise - Commerce Department secretary. Worked with Ron Brown
and
>John Huang and had extensive knowledge of their activities. Found dead in
>her locked office the day after Thanksgiving. It was ruled a suicide.
>Interestingly, she was found partially clothed, bruised, and in a pool of
>blood.
>
> There was no pool of blood, no bruising, and Barbara Wise's death was
never
> ruled a suicide by anyone. She was discovered in her Commerce Department
>office on 29 November 1996 after last being seen alive on 27 November 1996,
>the day before Thanksgiving. A thorough investigation uncovered no
evidence
>of foul play or suicide. Wise had a history of frequent and severe health
>problems, including liver ailments. Her death was attributed to natural
>causes.
>
> 21. Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce. John Huang was
>given a special security clearance by Meissner. Shortly thereafter, he
died
>in the crash of a small plane.
>
> Charles Meissner died in the same plane crash that took the life of Ron
>Brown, the one on in Croatia on 3 April 1993. 14 Commerce Department
>staffers died in that crash, Meissner and Brown among them.
>
> 22 & 23. Kevin Ives and Don Henry - seventeen-year-old boys who
apparently
>saw something related to drugs in Mena by accident late at night.
Officially
>ruled an accidental death on the train tracks, but evidence shows they
died
>before being placed on the tracks - one of a crushed skull and the other of
>a knife wound in the back.
>
> We're now entering an involved segment of the list wherein a number of
>deaths will be said to be tied to those of Ives and Henry. Ives and Henry
>were murdered, something a piss-poor medical examiner missed when he
didn't
>bother to look beyond the obvious.
>
> Henry and Ives were run over by a train on 23 Aug 1987. Dr. Fahmy Malak,
>Arkansas' former state medical examiner, ruling the deaths accidental,
said
>the teens fell asleep on the tracks after smoking marijuana. A 1988 Saline
>County grand jury determined the boys were murdered and their bodies
>afterwards laid on the tracks, but no other conclusions were reached and no
>indictments were returned. The FBI is still investigating the deaths.
>
> A number of Malak's determinations had been challenged and overturned
during
>his
> career. He certainly wasn't always a
> conscientious medical examiner, and his Ives and Henry rulings were only
two
>of
> many such botchings.
>
> Getting back to the real meat of who killed the boys, nothing ties Ives
and
> Henry to Clinton. Though various of these lists will claim the boys
>accidentally stumbled onto a "protected" drug drop and were killed for it,
>there's no reason to believe even that. In a 25 May 1990 hearing before
U.S.
>Magistrate Henry Jones Jr., Katherine Brightop said her ex-boyfriend Paul
>William Criswell told her he and three other men were involved in the
>teen-agers' deaths. Brightop said Criswell told her the boys tried to
steal
>cocaine from Callaway's home and they were caught and beaten to death
before
>their bodies were placed on the tracks.
>
> Ripping off a drug dealer will get you killed.
>
> 24. Keith Koney - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Died in a
> motorcycle accident with reports of a high-speed car chased involved.
>
> 19-year-old Keith Coney died on 17 May 1988 when the motorcycle he was
>driving struck the back of a tractor-trailer. He was riding a motorcycle
>he'd stolen the day before. There were no reports of a high-speed car
chase.
>
> 25. Keith McKaskle - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Stabbed
>to death.
>
> In August 1989, Ronald Shane Smith was sentenced to ten years for the 10
> November 1988 murder of Keith McKaskle. McKaskle had earlier expressed
fears
>for
> his life, linking them to his knowing something about "the railroad track
> thing". Smith may have been paid to kill McKaskle as a prison inmate said
he
>had
> been approached and offered $4,000 to kill McKaskle.
>
> 26. Gregory Collins - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Gunshot
> wound to the head.
>
> 25-year-old Greg Collins of Bryant was found shot in woods near Rosston
on 2
> Dec. 1989.
>
> 27. Jeff Rhodes - had information on the Ives and Henry and McKaskle
deaths.
> Tortured, mutilated, shot, body burned in a dumpster.
>
> In July 1989 Frank Pilcher was arrested for the April 1989 murder of
>Jeffrey Rhodes. Rhodes had earlier told his father he feared for his life
>because he'd witnessed a narcotics transaction.
>
> Rhodes was last seen alive on April 3. His body was discovered in a
>dumpster on April 19. He'd been shot twice in the head and his body was
>badly burned. The body was likely burned in an effort to destroy forensic
>evidence that would led investigators to the murderer.
>
> 28. James Milam - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. He was
> decapitated. The coroner ruled death due to natural causes.
>
> I've a feeling this is going to be my favourite entry. Remember that
>Arkansas medical examiner, the one I said wasn't always the most
>conscientious investigator on God's green earth? Yep, we're about to see
him
>again. Fahmy Malek listed James Milam's cause of death as a perforated
>ulcer, adding that Milam's small dog afterwards ate the dead man's head,
>accounting for Milam's headless condition.
>
> Milam's daughter-in-law insists Milam was murdered. She claims Malak
showed
>her
> photographs of the headless corpse, and the neck was cut clean. The Milam
>family
> has not attempted to legally challenge the ruling because of the expense,
so
> we'll never know which way the cat jumps, ulcer or murder.
>
> The best for last though. Ives and Henry died three months after the
>72-year- old man Milam was called to glory. What are we supposed to
believe
>here, the Clinton conspirators knocked off someone who "had information
on
>the Ives and Henry deaths" three months before they did away with Ives and
>Henry? Wow; talk about a preemptive strike!
>
> 29. Jordan Kettleson - had information on the Ives and Henry deaths.
Found
>shot
> in the front seat of his pickup truck.
>
> 21-year-old Jordan Ketelsen died on 25 June 1990.
>
> 30. Dr. Stanley Heard - Chair, National Chiropractic HealthCare Advisory
>Committee. He personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother.
>His personal small plane eveloped problems so he rented another. Fire
broke
>out in flight and he crashed.
>
> Stanley Heard and Stephen Dickson died on 10 September 1993 when their
>single- engine Cherokee caught fire shortly after takeoff from Dulles
>airport then crashed. They'd attended a briefing that morning on the
Clinton
>administration's health care plan. Dickson's plane developed mechanical
>problems on the way to Washington the week before, so Dickson and Heard
>rented the Cherokee in St. Louis to make the trip.
>
> Here is what the NTSB had to say about this crash.
>
> I've found nothing on the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory
> that Heard was supposedly the chair of.
>
> 31. Steve Dickson - attorney for Heard. Died in same plane crash.
>
> Dickson attended the same briefing Heard did. I do not know if he was
there
>as Heard's lawyer or independent of him.
>
> 32. John Hillier - video journalist and investigator. He helped to
produce
>the documentaries "Circle of Power," and "The Clinton Chronicles." He
>mysteriously died in a dentist's chair for no apparent reason.
>
> Again, I can find no record of this man's death or of his work. There
have
>been
> a few dental chair deaths, but I find nothing on his.
>
> 33. Maj. Gen. William Robertson
> 34. Col. William Densberger
> 35. Col. Robert Kelly
> 36. Spec. Gary Rhodes
> 37. Steve Willis
> 38. Robert Williams
> 39. Conway LeBleu
> 40. Todd McKeehan
> 41. Sgt. Brian Haney
> 42. Sgt. Tim Sabel
> 43. Maj.William Barkley
> 44. Capt. Scott Reynolds
> * all former Clinton bodyguards who are dead.
>
> There's no reason to believe any of these lads were bodyguards who
attended
> Clinton. Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeehan and Conway LeBleu
>were Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents killed during the Waco
>confrontation on 28 February 1993.
>
> Brian Haney, Timothy Sabel, William Barkley and Scott Reynolds died in a
>helicopter crash on 19 May 1993. These four were members of Marine
>Helicopter Squadron One, the unit responsible for transporting the
>President. They died when the Blackhawk helicopter they had taken out for a
>maintenance-evaluation flight crashed. There was no evidence of sabotage.
>Clinton had set foot in the aircraft on only one occasion, two months
before,
> when he traveled from the White House to the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
>
> Jarrett Robertson, William Densberger, Robert Kelly and Gary Rhodes died
in
>a helicopter crash in Weisbaden, Germany on 23 February 1993.
>
> 45. Gary Johnson - former attorney for Larry Nichols, severely beaten and
>left for dead.
>
> Again, I can find nothing on this incident or even this man's life.
>
> 46. Dennis Patrick - had millions of dollars laundered through his
account
>at Lasater & Co. without his knowledge. There have been several attempts
on
>his life, all unsuccessful.
>
> It's hard to know what to say about this one. Though I find credible
>reference to Patrick's life having been in danger a few times, I'm unable
>to trace back to news reports on the original incidents. Without seeing
>them, I'm not confident in stating an opinion on whether or not those
>attempts took place.
>
> Patrick was a client of Lasater, albeit a reluctant one. He was asked to
>open an account there, he refused, one was opened for him anyway, and he
was
>handed "profits" from one transaction for his part in allowing whatever was
>going on to take place. Again, someone who got involved with drug dealers
>ended up in trouble. In this case, an otherwise upstanding man took money
he
>knew to be dirty to keep quiet about what his account was being used for.
If
>he's now being chased by drug dealers who don't want the details of the
>transactions to come to light, is that all that surprising?
>
> 47. L.J. Davis - reporter. While investigating the Clinton scandals he
was
> attacked in his hotel room and his notes were taken. He survived.
>
> Davis said he had awakened in his hotel room with a big bump on his head.
>He soon after admitted drinking at least four martinis that night. No
pages
>were missing from his notebook, and he had no idea how he ended up on the
>floor. "I certainly wasn't about to conclude that somebody cracked me on
the
>head," Davis said at the time.
>
> 48. Larry Nichols - former marketing director of ADFA. Responsible for
>bringing forth more evidence and witnesses on Clinton corruption than any
>other source. Very public about his claims against Clinton. He has
suffered
>six beatings, arrest on trumped up charges, and a near arrest.
>
> In 1988 Larry Nichols, then a marketing director for the Arkansas
>Development Finance Authority, was fired from his job for making hundreds
of
>calls to the Nicaraguan contras from his office. In 1990 he filed a
lawsuit
>against Clinton claiming the then-Governor of Arkansas and others made him
>the scapegoat in a misappropriation-of-funds charge that cost him his job.
>In that suit he also tossed in claims of extramarital affairs, naming five
>women Clinton was supposed to have chased across the sheets. Nichols
>withdrew his lawsuit in 1992 and issued a round of apologies to everyone
>involved. He admitted what he'd said had been an attempt to destroy the
>Governor by innuendo.
>
> Nichols has since changed his tune yet again, and has returned to making
> allegations against Clinton, always being careful to stop just short of
> asserting Clinton is involved in various murders and other crimes Nichols
>points
> to as "suspicious."
>
> Since his dismissal from the AFDA, Nichols has made a career of peddling
>anti- Bill Clinton books and tapes to the lunatic fringe. Take anything
>claimed about or by this man with a huge grain of salt.
>
> Now, ask yourself: how many people with whom you were acquainted have
died
> mysteriously or violently in the past 10 years?
>
> The bottom line on this piece of e-lore? It's a badly worked laundry list
>dressed up to appear significant. The promised damning connections to the
>Chief Executive are missing, with innuendo and barefaced misinformation
>offered up in its place. Nothing ties Clinton to any of these deaths,
>something this list (and others of its ilk) conveniently glosses past.
Where
>is the smoking gun? What evidence is offered that would compel a rational
>person to believe there was Clinton involvement in any of these deaths?
>
> Clinton was acquainted with some people who died -- that's about all one
>can make of this list. Indeed, that's far more than can be made of a
number
>of the entries, specifically, those of Ives and Henry and all those
>supposedly tied to theirs.
>
> Though it's clear from digging through numerous newspaper articles there
is
>a thriving and dangerous drug culture in Little Rock, how or why this
should
>be connected to Bill Clinton is left unanswered. Regrettably, Little Rock
>is akin to numerous other large cities: it has its share of drug dealers,
>murders, and violence. It also has one very famous citizen. And that's
>about as much of a connection as anyone can make.
>
> Getting back to the list proper, there are a number of suicides
enumerated
>therein. Far from being an unusual mode of demise, suicide claims 32,000
>lives in the U.S. every year -- it's the 9th leading cause of death. It is
>indeed a rare person indeed who does not know someone who died by his own
>hand.
>
> Deaths by airplane crash account for a number of entries on the list.
>Again, this is not all that surprising. Every year a number of small planes
>crash in the United States, and some of those crashes result in
fatalities.
>As mentioned above, the National Transportation Safety Board investigates
>every one of them, looking both to determine the cause of the accident as
>well as to gather data that will help prevent further tragedies. The agency
>does a thorough job of looking into the circumstances surrounding each
>downed plane. To describe any of the plane crash deaths on this list as
>"suspicious" is to suggest the NTSB was part of a coverup.
>
> There have been a couple of unsolved murders (Mary Mahoney and Jerry
Parks),
>but
> there have also been deaths by natural causes that
> appear to have been tossed willy nilly into the mix in an effort to
increase
>the
> count. (Like I said earlier, how can anyone claim a death
> by pneumonia was a suicide?) All the best lies make sure to mix a bit of
>truth
> in with them, and the two unsolved murders work to cloak the many less
>credible
> claims in an aura of plausibility. Don't be overly bemused by them --
study
>each
> entry on its own merits.
>
> One final question to ask yourself before falling for any Clinton Body
>Count list -- if the Chief Executive was having people bumped off left,
>right and centre, why aren't Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp's names on
this
>list? Indeed, why not Kenneth Starr? Wouldn't it make more sense to knock
>off the ones whose allegations have harmed the President?
critic@large
Her testimony regarding Lewinski is also on record for anyone who cares to
look it up. These aren't beliefs, they are facts. You may choose not to
believe her testimony, but you can't dispute the fact that she gave said
testimony.
rose...@mail.idt.net wrote in message <362a8105....@news.idt.net>...
>auer...@aros.net (Internet AgentMan (aka Karl A)) wrote:
>
>>In article <3629f440....@news.idt.net>, rose...@mail.idt.net
wrote:
>>
>>> "critic@large" <o...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >As a matter of fact, Linda Tripp testified to the Grand Jury that she
felt
>>> >her life was in danger. That was why she decided to come forward. And
Monica
>>> >Lewinski was recorded by Tripp as saying that she didn't want to end up
like
>>> >Mary Mahone, and that she knew what "they" were capable of. Just
because
>>> >this information isn't reported in the mainstream media, doesn't mean
it
>>> >isn't true.
>>>
>>> and just because you're loony enought to believe it is, doesn't make
>>> it true either.
>>
>>And your protestations and ad hominens don't make it false, either.
Amazing
>>how that works, eh?
>
>Did you ever consider WHY people attack the messenger instead of the
>"message"?
>
>In argument, evidence and facts can be refuted, can be verified.
>
>Those who post "belief", and unsubstantiated assertions as fact and
>evidence leave little else but to point out the fallacy of the person,
>not the "evidence" they post.
>
>If it were a case of just having to refute or rebut a set of
>unsubstantiated allegations just once, it's one thing. But you
>loonies insist on a world where ANY statement or belief is used in
>place of evidence. It becomes tiresome, it's illogical, and
>downright stupid.
>
>You (and your ilk) have a set of beliefs. (Mind you, that beliefs DO
>NOT require proof.) You accept whatever this conspiratorial belief is
>on faith, or some other judgment. However, it is not proven, not
>substantiable, and certainly not accepted by anyone other than the
>"believer". Which brings us back to "loons"
>
>see?
Paul McGough
Bzzt! Betty Currie's brother died in a bizzare manner shortly after
Clinton was notified by Paula Jones' lawyers Lewinsky would be deposed.
IMPEACH THE KILLER OF SUDANESE BABIES
xkag...@ecr.net
This would make you a liar, just like Bill. I said *MOST* of those
who died around Clinton were white.
Also, I did not call them *victims*
If you have something to say, just say it!
You don't have to make up a lie to respond to.
Don
"I want to make it very clear that this middle-class
tax cut, in my view, is central to any attempt we're
going to make to have a short-term economic strategy
and a long-term fairness strategy, which is part of
getting this country going again."
Still waiting, Bill!