Which is better: Trane / Rheem Furnace & A/C
Joseph Farran
I am in the market for replacing our 20 year old 5 Ton A/C and 120,000
BTU gas furnace.
I have gotten estimates and am at a point where I have narrow my
choices down to either a Trane or Rheem. Both seem very good from all
of the old articles I've had read on these brands.
The units I want are regular 10 SEER A/C efficiency and 80% efficiency
gas furnace - my location, Southern California does not warrant the
extra cost of the higher efficiency models.
My specific questions are:
* Which brand is better - Trane or Rheem? Or are both good units with
not much differences?
* Is the Trane XL80 two stage gas furnace a good idea?
* Is Trane more expensive to service, or vise-versa?
* Is is better to spend an extra $100 to install the "easy pull-out"
filter change on the bottom of the gar furnace now, or are the filters
easy to change?
Any help, comments, or experience would be much appreciated,
Thanks,
John Mills
> . I am in the market for replacing our 20 year old 5 Ton A/C and 120,000
> . BTU gas furnace.
> .
> . I have gotten estimates and am at a point where I have narrow my
> . choices down to either a Trane or Rheem. Both seem very good from all
> . of the old articles I've had read on these brands.
>
> Based on following the HVAC newsgroup for a while, I would say that the
> installers rate TRANE as excellent and Rheem as barely tolerable crap.
That's funny, I haven't read anything negative about Rheem here.
We've sold it for years along with American-Standard/Trane products,
leaning
more towards the Rheem line. Both ARE excellent unit. Rheem has the
quiet, efficient Copeland Scroll compressor in every outdoor unit. They
use a multi-A coil which cuts coil airflow resistance by 2/3. Their 34"
furnace line is very reliable, easy to install & service. I put an
undersized 90% test furnace in Sis's house 4 years ago and other than
cleaning the flame sensor once, it's run fine.
For the original poster, I've got advice on sizing & other issues as
well
as links to all the manufacturers at my web site.
jerry barker
The Copeland "quiet" scroll compressor will be noisy in a couple of
years. But I would go with Rheem. I have sold them since 1976.
john becker
In the time I have been servicing both rheem and trane equipment, I have to go
with trane having the least amount of problems. We used to sell rheem, but
now we sell trane. I have changed out a lot of rheem's hot surface ignitors,
but few trane. I think the rheem design on heating up the ignitor kills it
early.
As far as their ac units are concerned, it worries me that the coil area
around the compressor is always slammed with dirt and grass and whatever,
vitrtually cutting off the air to that section of the coil, raising head
pressure and eventually leading to higher electic bills and whatever else may
follow.
For their air handlers, I am not sure if I can remember how many sequencers I
have replaced on their units, but it has been many.
While I think rheem is a better brand than most units, they are no match for
trane or lennox.
John
In article <6d7236$t...@news.service.uci.edu>, jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu (Joseph
Farran) wrote:
>I am in the market for replacing our 20 year old 5 Ton A/C and 120,000
>BTU gas furnace.
>
>I have gotten estimates and am at a point where I have narrow my
>choices down to either a Trane or Rheem. Both seem very good from all
>of the old articles I've had read on these brands.
>
Joseph Farran
In article <34F76A43...@mail.n-link.com>,
jerry barker <jm...@n-link.com> wrote:
>The Copeland "quiet" scroll compressor will be noisy in a couple of
>years. But I would go with Rheem. I have sold them since 1976.
I am a bit confused. I've been told that scroll compresors get
"better" and quiter with time, not the other way around.
Are Trane parts easy to get? Is it more expensive to fix a Trane
unit than a Rheem unit on average?
Also, one contractor just told me that he dropped Trane because of
warrantee problems - not sure what he meant by this. Anyone else?
Joseph
catfish
Between the two you have narrowed it down too. I would say it would merely
boil down to foot prints of the outside units. The Trane would give you more
space if it were going in a service yard where you also place your lawn
mower<grin> or leaf blower<grin> or <sic> Trash bins. For footprint as a
factor I would go with the Trane. As far as quality goes between the two I
would say it depends more upon the installer than anything else. I don't
prefer either of these units having already posted my experiences with
Trane<American Standard is exactly the same unit> here in the Newsgroup. As
far as Rheem<Ruud is exactly the same unit> goes my experiences with them
haven't been very good from the service stand point. Please note that
different regions of the world experience widely varying degrees of support
from any brand. I have never installed them so I have no baseline to compare
as to whether their failures were induced by poor installation practices. I
have seen many Lennox units here on the salty moisture laden South Carolina
Atlantic coast that were 24+ years old, GE<purchased by Trane who was
purchased by American Standard> units as old as 16 years. Pre-UT Carriers as
old as 20 years, Pre-UT Bryants as old as 23 years, Sears as old as 27
years, Heil/Tempstar units as old as 14 years, Yorks as old as 21 years,
Coleman<pre Evcon> 13 years, And bringing up the rear Janitrol/Goodman with
the oldest coming in at 7 years.
catfish aka Bill
http://surf.to/catfish/
Joseph Farran wrote in message <6davss$5...@news.service.uci.edu>...
john becker
We sell trane and as with any brand, they have some problems. We have never
had a warranty problem with them here.
John
In article <6davss$5...@news.service.uci.edu>, jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu (Joseph
mec...@essex1.com
My employer is a Trane dealer and I haven't heard anything disparaging about
Trane warantees not being honored. In fact just the opposite. They do take a
dim view of submitting paperwork for remove and replace troubleshooting. They
start asking lots of questions when warantees are submitted on the same unit
for the same problem in a certain period. Wouldn't you?
In article <6davss$5...@news.service.uci.edu>,
jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu (Joseph Farran) wrote:
>
> In article <34F76A43...@mail.n-link.com>,
> jerry barker <jm...@n-link.com> wrote:
> >The Copeland "quiet" scroll compressor will be noisy in a couple of
> >years. But I would go with Rheem. I have sold them since 1976.
>
> I am a bit confused. I've been told that scroll compresors get
> "better" and quiter with time, not the other way around.
>
> Are Trane parts easy to get? Is it more expensive to fix a Trane
> unit than a Rheem unit on average?
>
> Also, one contractor just told me that he dropped Trane because of
> warrantee problems - not sure what he meant by this. Anyone else?
>
> Joseph
>
>
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Ed Walker
In article <6dbvkm$6im$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mec...@essex1.com wrote:
>My employer is a Trane dealer and I haven't heard anything disparaging about
>Trane warantees not being honored. In fact just the opposite. They do take a
>dim view of submitting paperwork for remove and replace troubleshooting. They
>start asking lots of questions when warantees are submitted on the same unit
>for the same problem in a certain period. Wouldn't you?
>
>In article <6davss$5...@news.service.uci.edu>,
> jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu (Joseph Farran) wrote:
>>
>> In article <34F76A43...@mail.n-link.com>,
>> jerry barker <jm...@n-link.com> wrote:
>> >The Copeland "quiet" scroll compressor will be noisy in a couple of
>> >years. But I would go with Rheem. I have sold them since 1976.
>>
>> I am a bit confused. I've been told that scroll compresors get
>> "better" and quiter with time, not the other way around.
>>
>> Are Trane parts easy to get? Is it more expensive to fix a Trane
>> unit than a Rheem unit on average?
>>
>> Also, one contractor just told me that he dropped Trane because of
>> warrantee problems - not sure what he meant by this. Anyone else?
>>
My Trane Gas furnace had a cracked heat exchanger just short of 10 years old.
The warrenty said 20 years on the heat exchanger. I could not get a
replacement heat exchanger, and after a few phone calls, I received a new
furnace. They insisted it only was warrentied 10 years, so I just made it.
The new one also has a 20 year warrenty, HA!
Joseph Farran
In article <6ddpt6$ppm$1...@usenet88.supernews.com>,
Ed Walker <ive...@deleteme.accessone.com> wrote:
>My Trane Gas furnace had a cracked heat exchanger just short of 10 years old.
>The warrenty said 20 years on the heat exchanger. I could not get a
>replacement heat exchanger, and after a few phone calls, I received a new
>furnace. They insisted it only was warrentied 10 years, so I just made it.
>The new one also has a 20 year warrenty, HA!
This is an interesting case. What happens if you have an A/C unit?
Will Trane pickup the tab for the labor?
Having an A/C and having to replace the furnace means that the A coil
has to be moved as well which is usually very expensive. Sometimes
the labor of installing a new furnace and moving over the A coil is
more expensive than the furnace itself.
So it's great that a new furnace was issued, but I am wondering about
the labor costs...
Joseph
Toshiba Preferred User
Right now I have four proposals from four different HVAC contractors in our
area, each of whom have a good reputation (I spoke with a variety of their
clients before I spoke to the sales people).
The brands are: York, Rheem, Trane, American Standard, Carrier.
Assuming the installations are of equal quality and workmanship, does
anyone have any long-term information on the reliability of these brands?
Anyone know where I could find such a thing?
Scott Collins
May I ask opinions also on Bryant?
I have a Bryant gas furnace (and A/C compressor outside) in my new
house in Ohio.
My opinion so far is that it seems to be cheaply made and is as
noisy as a distant jet engine when it fires up.
I think my builder skimped on me, but am not sure.
What say?
Thanks in advance...
Scott
catfish
Bryant and Carrier are essentially the same product the difference being
only the label placed on them at the wholesaler in South Carolina and
Georgia anyways. As for your "jet noise" we usually place them in attics or
garages to avoid the complaints from customers. Fortunately, we are in heat
pump country down here and don't install many gas furnaces. If the noise is
coming from the ductwork then you should contact the installer and ask him
to please investigate it. It is quite common for metal ductwork to act as an
"echo chamber" To remedy this we usually place 5 to 6 feet of flex duct on
all the runs to the registers to absorb the noise.
catfish aka Bill
http://surf.to/catfish/
Scott Collins wrote in message <6dh9bb$4...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>...
catfish
Only difference between Bryant and Carrier is the Label.
john becker wrote in message <6dicad$j...@camel15.mindspring.com>...
>Pilot lit furnaces usually have a 10 year heat exchanger warranty. Was
your
>furnace a horizontal with silver color??
>
>You don't have to move the a-coil to replace the furance.
>
>Bryant is a low-end carrier product.
>
>John
>
>
>In article <6deuqu$n...@news.service.uci.edu>, jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu
(Joseph
john becker
Fidd
Does your furnace use an inshot burner?
Had many complaints about them here in Ontario for noise.
If this is the problem I don't know of anything you can do to the furnace
itself but you might try the following.
If the noise is coming through the ductwork you could hire a contractor in
your area to insulate the inside of the ducts for 10ft either side to cut
down on the noise transmission.
Ed
Scot Martin
It sounds like this person has a package Bryant. The package BDP's (Bryant,
Payne, and Day and Night) units use inshot burners that are directly spark
ignited. The only problem is that there are only two burners, even on the
larger units. A 95,000 btu unit only has 2 burners! Hard to believe. The
split system furnace would have 5 burners.
If you can give me the model number off of the unit I can tell you more. I
have my Payne book sitting next to my computer.
Scot
Bob
>
Bryant is made by Carrier, which also makes Day-Night and Payne. They're a
good furnace, but like all models, have their quirks. Nothing too serious,
and Bryant stands behind their warranties. Noise is a common complaint from
people who aren't familiar with the newer type of furnaces being produced. The
older types didn't have ventor( or exhaust ) motors.
As a service technician, I don't find Bryant any noisier than the rest. You
may just take a while to get used to it.
However, with that being said, Bryant did experience a problem with some of
their burners "pulsing" loudly. If this is the case, have the installer
contact his supplier for info on how to remedy this .
Respectfully ,Bob
john becker
Bryant and carrier may be identical on the furnace side, but the condensing
units are different, the ones I have in mind, anyway. The one with the one
door opening to wiring and fan oil ports (ha)....carrier doesn't have one like
that. It is true that the yellow carrier furnace often says bryant.
John
In article <6dilfp$8...@enews4.newsguy.com>, "catfish"
<cat...@unforgettable.com> wrote:
>Only difference between Bryant and Carrier is the Label.
>
>john becker wrote in message <6dicad$j...@camel15.mindspring.com>...
catfish
Ok, I agree with you then Carrier is a low end Bryant Product.<Grin>
Actually, Neither are low end United Technologies Products. They are both
"Flagship lines" under UT's scheme of things with Payne being their Low end
aka "competitive line". I just saw something today that said they were
discontinueing the practice of East Coast/West Coast Product availability.
Meaning that They are planning to allow all UT products to be available
Nationwide in the US. I think previuosly Day & Night were only West Coast
and Payne was only East Coast. Our wholesaler said they only offer
accessories under the Day & Night label.
I know that when I pick a unit up at the wholesaler in order to get a
Bryant they have to remove the Carrier Label and place a Bryant one on it.
If we want it shipped with a Bryant Label we have to place a "B" at the end
of the Product number.
Incidentally in my area there are 6 Carrier Dealers, 2 Bryant Dealers{1 of
which is mainly a Trane Dealer} & 3 Trane Dealers. The rest of the
companies here do not "align" themselves to a brand. Now, of these only 5
have a State Mechanical License. Which also means the market is flooded
because we only have a full time residency rate of about 150,000 people.
john becker wrote in message <6dnkg1$m...@camel12.mindspring.com>...
Scot Martin
I had heard a rumor here in California, that BDP was dumping the Payne line of
products. However, when I went in to set myself up as a dealer, the salesman
(after seeing my Contractor's card and EPA card) handed me a Payne book. The
company I used to work for purchases Bryant from the same wholesale house. Upon
looking through the book, I noticed that the 2 speed 80% furnace and the 2-speed
90+ (96%) furnaces were not in there. I asked why and was told that if I needed
anything else I could easily get it from them. I suppose it will come with a
different name on it. I don't really have a preference. I also noticed that
BDP has changed the look of the new condensing units. They will now be more
round, except for the corner with the contractor and capacitors. The door will
remain the same and therefore the shape will be the same.
I would really appreciate any responses regarding Payne and BDP. I would
also like to know if these new condensing units have started to show up in you
area yet.
Scot
ivanm
I made this decision last year and went with Trane xl 80 two stage furnace
and 10 seer a/c. .
Can say nothing bad about it .Live in Mass. so heat more important than ac
but used ac a
lot last year . When getting two stage will need new thermostat . I picked
honeywell . Was about
$100 dollars but worth it . look at spacegard filter . 300 installed. I
think I spent 250 extra
for 2 stage .Also got 5 year extended warranty .
E-Mail if any questions Ivan
Joseph Farran wrote:
> I am in the market for replacing our 20 year old 5 Ton A/C and 120,000
> BTU gas furnace.
>
> I have gotten estimates and am at a point where I have narrow my
> choices down to either a Trane or Rheem. Both seem very good from all
> of the old articles I've had read on these brands.
>
> The units I want are regular 10 SEER A/C efficiency and 80% efficiency
> gas furnace - my location, Southern California does not warrant the
> extra cost of the higher efficiency models.
>
> My specific questions are:
>
> * Which brand is better - Trane or Rheem? Or are both good units with
> not much differences?
>
> * Is the Trane XL80 two stage gas furnace a good idea?
>
> * Is Trane more expensive to service, or vise-versa?
>
> * Is is better to spend an extra $100 to install the "easy pull-out"
> filter change on the bottom of the gar furnace now, or are the filters
> easy to change?
>
> Any help, comments, or experience would be much appreciated,
>
> Thanks,
--
MZ,
Marc L O'Brien
Joseph Farran <jfa...@cuba.acs.uci.edu> wrote in article
<6davss$5...@news.service.uci.edu>...
: In article <34F76A43...@mail.n-link.com>,
: jerry barker <jm...@n-link.com> wrote:
: >The Copeland "quiet" scroll compressor will be noisy in a couple
of
: >years. But I would go with Rheem. I have sold them since 1976.
:
: I am a bit confused. I've been told that scroll compresors get
: "better" and quiter with time, not the other way around.
:
: Are Trane parts easy to get? Is it more expensive to fix a Trane
: unit than a Rheem unit on average?
:
: Also, one contractor just told me that he dropped Trane because of
: warrantee problems - not sure what he meant by this. Anyone else?
:
: Joseph
The compliant scroll compressor should, theoretically, wear in. The
fixed scroll compressor would obviously get noisy with age. The
advantage with the fixed scroll is that it can be unloaded by speed
reduction.
--
Marc L O'Brien
Industrial refrigeration mechanic
SABROE - STAL, London, UK.
Sonofdawra
>our different HVAC contractors in our
>area, each of whom have a good reputation (I spoke with a variety of their
>clients before I spoke to the sales people).
>
>The brands are: York, Rheem, Trane, American Standard, Carrier
Trane and American Standard are going to probabally be the same equipment with
different logos. Of these, all are from about equally comparable
manufacturers. It seems that any manufacturer these days can have a lemmon get
into the marketplace-----that's a model not just an individual furnace. None
of the new models will be as trouble free as the older standing pilot furnaces.
Each of these companies has a comparable number of "parts" on the newer
designs. A lot more parts than on the older furnaces. Therefore, the
probability of problems is higher. IMHO, the life expectancy of a new furnace
is not as long as the furnaces being manufactured 20 years ago. Everyone has
such a "competitively built" unit and only time will tell.
Kenneth Williams
Both are "good" brands and if properly installed will give you good climate
control. The key words here are "properly installed". Put "ten times" more emphasis
on the caliber of your installer than you do on the brand of equipment and I can
promise you a job you will be very happy with.
Ken
Mike Brady
I agree that the installer is better than half the equation. Properly
installed, any of the above mentioned equipment will do just fine.
New furnaces are more complicated. They have to meet efficency
standards that standing pilot units did not have meet. There is a
circuit board in the new units and that can be troublesome but the
models on sale now are more reliable than the units sold just 2 years
ago.
I can't speak for the Trane, but the Rheem RGPH furnace seems to
operate well and the 10 and 12 seer condensers are very trouble free.
Both condensers use Copeland scroll compressors which have a very low
failure rate and are rather simple, rugged units.
Hope this helps.
David Threlkeld
>My Trane Gas furnace had a cracked heat exchanger just short of 10 years old.
>The warrenty said 20 years on the heat exchanger. I could not get a
>replacement heat exchanger, and after a few phone calls, I received a new
>furnace. They insisted it only was warrentied 10 years, so I just made it.
>The new one also has a 20 year warrenty, HA!
The heat exchanger might be warrentied for 20 years but it all depends
on local codes. In Denver I know it's against code to replace a heat
exchanger, they are worried about poor quality work causing leaks and
carbon monoxide poisoning. Even if the furnace is only 2 months old
the warrenty on the exchanger cannot by law be honored, they whole
furnace has to be replaced.
Just my $.02
Dave
ajense...@geocities.com
David, I'd like to know how you got them to replace your furnace.
My 5-yr old furnace has never worked properly. The manufacturer has
acknowledged a manufacturing defect, yet I'm supposed to be grateful if
they replace the one part that's still under warranty, regardless of the
fact that the inside of my furnace has corroded because of that faulty
part. I've gotten a surprisingly large number of e-mails with similar
stories, so if you know how to get satisfaction, I'm sure many of us
would like to know. http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/1007/
A.J.
David & Kathy
--
Please remove the number 2 To send E-mail
ajense...@geocities.com<AJENSE...@GEOCITIES.COM wrote in message
<351341...@geocities.com>...
>David, I'd like to know how you got them to replace your furnace.
I checked out your web site and see that your furnace was a different brand.
Trane is a lot better at warranties than that brand. I had a case once where
the previous installer had improperly installed a trane system and the rep.
still offered to replace the equipment free of charge even though it was due
to poor installation.