Goodman CPLT Series
as4603
before (I've read thro' this site). But (1). can anyone comment about
the CPLT series 13 seer HP split. I believe these are newer and whether
the AEPT VS air handler is preferable with this unit. BTW is this the
same VS they use on the Amana? (2) The ones who have something good to
say blame the hacks for problems. How can you tell who is going to do a
good job? I do notice that the outfits who claim superior service and
have no quibble guarantees over and above the manufacturer's warranties
are not putting in Goodman, at least in my area. Why aren't there more
dealers who would buy cheap Goodman's add their expertise, charge a
premium for that and still stay lower than the Trane prices and make a
killing selling equally dependable units??
as4603
bill
"as4603" <as4603...@infoave.net> wrote:
> I have 2 q's related to Goodman and I know this has been kicked around
> before (I've read thro' this site). But (1). can anyone comment about
Alt.home.repair is where your questions belong.
--
Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Charles
handler for my home. I compared many different brands and their warranties.
You cannot beat the Goodman for price and the warranty. Find another brand
with a lifetime compressor warranty. I almost bought the AEPT air handler,
but it was a few hundred dollars more. I just couldn't justify spending that
much more for it. Also when the motor goes out, it is a lot more than a
regular motor. I have had my system running for about 2 months now with no
problems. I live on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi and it's damn hot here
right now and this unit has no problem keeping my home at 72F. As a
serviceman, I am very pleased with the construction of the outdoor unit. It
has a heavy gauge metal wraparound to keep kids and weedeaters from hurting
the fins. VERY quiet. I don't think you would be dissappointed with it.
TURTLE
"as4603" <as4603...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:1122511177.4...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
This is Turtle.
1] The CPLT heat Pump with a VS air handler is not all that bad of a
combination to put in. i would have to look but you do need the TXV with the
AEPT -- VS air handler. They have a model that does not have a TXV in it. Now
the words I speak about this set of equipment is good but change it to different
combination of Goodman equipment and i would or might speak bad about the combo.
i will say i don't like their 10 seer line of equipment except the 5 ton with
scroll compressor in it.
1A] The Amana and the Goodman Veriasble speed air handler are not the same
this minute but soon or even maybe very soon the same.
2] First Goodman is low end equipment made to sell to apartment complexes,
modual homes, and people without the top dollar or money that a lot of quality
dealer demand or get.
2A] Their 10 seer equipment sucks as the piston compressor troubles. they
switched to Copland lately and may have fixed the problem.
2B] Goodman does sell to the smaller new beginners in the HVAC business and do
have that market covered. Then the beginners are learning to install make
mistakes doing so and then Goodman gets the charge as poor equipment. Then The
installers that are good want to get away from this Rookie of the Year selling
companys and will sell others of maybe Trane, Rheem, Carrier, and American
Standard.
2C] I can see where any of the good installer would want to stay away from the
Bad PR that Goodman is getting. Me i sell 3 or 4 different brands and Goodman is
one of the lower end of equipment of them. I sell Carrier, Rheem, Arco aire, and
sometimes Weather King. Now i don't really do much residentiual but Light
Commercial is what i do.
3] Now with all the bad PR of equipment or installers or what. The installer
is the key to a good piece of good running equipment and as far as I'm concerned
brand don't mean '' do dittle '' to me. Get you a good inmstaller and don't
worry about brand.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:mAXFe.40$Uz1...@eagle.america.net...
>
> "Charles" <freez...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4qXFe.10246$oZ.1...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>I recently bought and installed a CPLT 13 SEER unit with the ARUF air handler
>>for my home. I compared many different brands and their warranties. You
>>cannot beat the Goodman for price and the warranty.
>
>
>
>>Find another brand with a lifetime compressor warranty.
>
> Lets see...there is York, Lifetime warranty on compressor...there is Carrier
> IIRC, and I am pretty sure that TAppan is offering a lifetime UNIT
> replacement, altho, that might only be for the first 10 years....cant recall
> on that one.
>
>
>>I almost bought the AEPT air handler, but it was a few hundred dollars more. I
>>just couldn't justify spending that much more for it. Also when the motor goes
>>out, it is a lot more than a regular motor. I have had my system running for
>>about 2 months now with no problems. I live on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi
>>and it's damn hot here right now and this unit has no problem keeping my home
>>at 72F. As a serviceman, I am very pleased with the construction of the
>>outdoor unit. It has a heavy gauge metal wraparound to keep kids and
>>weedeaters from hurting the fins. VERY quiet. I don't think you would be
>>dissappointed with it.
>
> Carrier Affinity ,or a York Infinity, or a Trane XL16.
> I have package units that are more silent.
>
> What you guys top out at today down there in no man needs a licence land? It
> was over 107F here and I kept my place cool and at 67 with no problems, and no
> high power bills either...
This is Turtle.
You missed the thought here.
The life time warranty will still be good for a life time but will stop offering
it in January of 2006. Really having a life time warranty is not something to
laugh at.
yes they make higher dollar equipment that is quieter but not at thier 13 seer
price of a goodman. a quieter condenser is not a big deal if it saves you money.
You have a good sales pitch of the Trane / Yorker Luxaire / Carrier seem to say
here that these Goodman will not hold their house at any temp they want because
your is at 67ºF in side your house and 107ºF outdoors. Mickey Mouse Brand will
hold a house at anything you want if you install it correctly. Now if your going
to hack the units in , i do recommend getting a Trane / York / Carrier to try to
help out with the trouble you going to get.
Now before closing , I think any person on this group should be able to say
anything about a product they feel to be true with out a salesmanship campaign
to correct the words of another person. You do know you was putting Charles down
for his view of the goodman units and it got your fever up and wanted to not let
someone say Goodman units are good in anyway. Just speak your thoughts to the OP
and don't try to correct everbody that does not agree with you !
TURTLE
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> sometimes Weather King. Now i don't really do much residentiual but Light
> Commercial is what i do.
Oh? That wasn't the story you've told in the past. Keeps changing with
the telling. Senility settling in weasel?
> 3] Now with all the bad PR of equipment or installers or what. The
> installer
> is the key to a good piece of good running equipment and as far as I'm
> concerned
> brand don't mean '' do dittle '' to me. Get you a good inmstaller and don't
> worry about brand.
According to you the best install you ever did was the free one you did
in exchange for insider stock info. The rest of your jobs get short
shift because they are poor, cheap, stupid, on welfare, demand exactly
what they want and how they want it or you just rig it to fix some other
goobers (former employee, trainee, prison buddy) screwed up install.
Of course known equipment problems don't play a part when the BIG weasel
is pontificating.
The best thing anyone can do in your neck of the woods is anybody but
weasel.
Snip what you can't deal with hack boi.
as4603
opinions.What would you say about an experienced dealer who's been in
the field for maybe 20 years going from the 'higher end' brand names to
Goodman because he felt that he could not compete selling those brand
names. I have quotes from higher end dealers that are twice the price
of a Goodman. Is it worth spending for 2 Goodmans to get some of these?
Also, turtle, when you say Goodman CPLT - AEPT is not bad quality, can
you tell me what separates them from the better brands (is that
Trane-Am.STd?) If I get an extended warranty for parts for 10 yrs I
will be covered either brand I buy. Thanks.
TURTLE
> More proof that if you suck up to a homeowner and kiss his little ass, he will
> buy anything..
>
> Now, here is something they wont tell you bud...
>
> The outside unit is about $350, and that POS airhandler costs them about $300.
>
> Think about that deal you are getting...and remember, no one else has shit
> that cheap, and then, wonder why it wont last.
>
>
This is Turtle.
Earth to York / Luxaire Lover. I can buy Luxaire / Colman / Evcon all Knock off
York , Frigidaire, and Goodman all the same price. Don't try to dazzle me with
prices for I get a price sheet on everything just like you do wizz-o.
TURTLE
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Earth to York / Luxaire Lover. I can buy Luxaire / Colman / Evcon all Knock
> off
> York , Frigidaire, and Goodman all the same price. Don't try to dazzle me
> with
> prices for I get a price sheet on everything just like you do wizz-o.
Is that so? Is that why you admitted here Trane and others won't deal
with your hack ass? lol
udarrell
There was a lot of residential Goodman, Janitrol, GMC, condensers sold
where I was a contractor for many years, and it was rare to get a
service call on them.
I got a lot of service calls on the so-called name brands; kind of
strange, huh.
I installed a quite a few Goodman condensers and never had a compliant
over the years about their performance or serviceability; strange, huh.
Years ago their cabinets were their weakest point. The rest of the
working components seem to do as well as any other brands.
I don't believe in knocking equipment. Tell them about any weak points
(cabinets, etc.) and then give the buyer the choice of equipment brands
and prices.
Any good tech should be able to assemble a condenser with the component
features that would provide the most durable benefits to the buyer at
the least investment costs.
- udarrell
--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
TURTLE
This is Turtle
Now just these two brands & models only above and not comparing any other brand
or models at all. Salesmanship is the difference.
Trane and American Standard are exactly the same thing.
The Goodman CPTL-AEPT has 10 years all parts warranty on it already and don't
need to buy it.
There will be high end customers and low end customer as long as there is people
on this earth. You can make a living selling the low end equipment to low end
people but High end people will always put you down for just wanting Plain jane
a/c and not give a damn. now also you can make a good living selling high end
equipment for they expect to pay more for this high end stuff. Now what i really
think that seperates the two end product is Salesmanship and advertisement
ability.
Now in closing here. the installer make a unit or breaks a unit when he puts it
in.
TURTLE
TURTLE
>
> "bill" <bi...@hvac2.com> wrote in message
> news:bill-9BD63C.1...@news-rdr-01.ohiordc.rr.com...
>> In article <X16Ge.7937$8g5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
>> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> This is Turtle.
>>>
>>> Earth to York / Luxaire Lover. I can buy Luxaire / Colman / Evcon all Knock
>>> off
>>> York , Frigidaire, and Goodman all the same price. Don't try to dazzle me
>>> with
>>> prices for I get a price sheet on everything just like you do wizz-o.
>>
>> Is that so? Is that why you admitted here Trane and others won't deal
>> with your hack ass? lol
>>
>
> But wait a sec, Terry admits he does not do resi....but commercial..
> Umm...somethings not right here...who in their right mind uses Goodmans
> commercial shit? Not that they have a bunch, but hey, if you need 40 tons, 8
> five ton package units will GIT R DUN!
> Of course, ya gotta do it the OLD way, so just cut 16 holes in the roof and
> let em rip.
>
This is Turtle.
damn you are fun to play.
Hey Stevey Boy , You picked out the York / Luxaire dealers in Alexandria,
Louisiana and i don't get my stuff from there. also Rarely do they come 50 miles
south for service calls. Also tell Chuck at Cross Road Hell-o for me.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:uX7Ge.30545$sJ4....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
No, I picked out the closest York dealers that are listed with York to you
dumbass. I mean, actual not just installing and since you guys aint
licenced, prob hacking in units.
Its not them you need to worry about, but I did already get a confirmation
call on my personal line from the regional rep.
Your suppliers gonna love you..now..about those 15 units I wanted to buy
from you...got em yet ? LOL
oh...one more thing Terry, you and your butt buddy are killfiled from this
one on....I dont wanna see a grown man cry when he finds out someones got
some clout.
Dont make any mistakes in your replies now, ya hear?
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Earth to Stevey Wonder Blower, The three companys that you listed are not
Licenced to work in Allen Parish or the City of Oakdale where i'm licenced to
work at. Now I know you grabbing at straws here and about to loose you thought
on this problem, but the only York equipment sold in commercical application is
or was done by myself or Judice Air Conditioning out of Lake Charles, Louisiana.
The ones you listed rarelydoes any business in Allen Parish for you can get
skinned working this part of the country without knowing who your working for
before you start a job.
OH Yea, I don't care to know the Factory Rep. for we buy York or Luxaire
equipment from the warehouses and can could care less who the factory rep. is or
who he was. Here the York Equipment is sold where they have Frigidaire, Luxaire
, and York. Here in Allen Parish there is no York dealer to protect and they
will sell to any respectible hvac company. You must be a Joke to think If Turtle
Called up York dealer around here and wanted 8 -- 5 ton gas packs, that they
would not sell them to me because some asshole in hill bill country did not want
them sold to me. You do dream a lot.
Now if you said you was going to plonk me. You just stopped all the flaming if
you don't say anything to me at all for i will not say anything to you. Now
remember if you don't bad mouth me i don't say a word to your post at all. if
not flame on.
TURTLE
TURTLE
> it...but he needs to know there is more out there.
>>
>> The life time warranty will still be good for a life time but will stop
>> offering it in January of 2006. Really having a life time warranty is not
>> something to laugh at.
>
> theirs....wornder why that is??
>
>>
>> yes they make higher dollar equipment that is quieter but not at thier 13
>> seer price of a goodman. a quieter condenser is not a big deal if it saves
>> you money.
>
>
>>
>> You have a good sales pitch of the Trane / Yorker Luxaire / Carrier seem to
>> say here that these Goodman will not hold their house at any temp they want
>> because your is at 67ºF in side your house and 107ºF outdoors. Mickey Mouse
>> Brand will hold a house at anything you want if you install it correctly. Now
>> if your going to hack the units in , i do recommend getting a Trane / York /
>> Carrier to try to help out with the trouble you going to get.
>
> into your self admittted scam of a Judge in LA.
>>
>> Now before closing , I think any person on this group should be able to say
>> anything about a product they feel to be true with out a salesmanship
>> campaign to correct the words of another person. You do know you was putting
>> Charles down for his view of the goodman units and it got your fever up and
>> wanted to not let someone say Goodman units are good in anyway. Just speak
>> your thoughts to the OP and don't try to correct everbody that does not agree
>> with you !
>
> Goodman, and he got the other side of it.
> By your own words there bubba..stfu and let it ride.
>
This is Turtle.
WOW , The word Goodman fires your rocket i see.
Me , Judges, Your info of it, and all in a nutshell. You don't have a clue as to
what was going on or the out come. Also Your surely are clueless as to what the
deal was as to how it took place.
Charlie said the nasty word goodman while you was reading and got on the other
side of not the group but of you. Your the best advertisement Goodman has by
being so strongly against them. If you was not so hot headed to read closely of
what i think about goodman , you would see or know I'm not wild about Goodman
stuff in general. Also i would see i don't like your Luxaire stuff made by York
either.
Goodman Goodman Goodman !
I could not resist to fire your rocket one more time.
TURTLE
Charles
>
>.
>
> BTW, I went ahead and sent this to the local factory York rep in your
> area. I am sure that he will be talking to your local supplier about how
> in hell a non dealer is getting those Goodman prices on units that cost
> about 3X that.
> I made sure he had all your contact information too..down to the header
> file.
>
> I bet the 3 closest certified York dealers, Amiots, Crossroads Plumbing,
> and All Seasons Air want to know this as well, since they cant get them
> that cheap either.
> This should play well with your reputation.
>
> Hint...they got your post too...
>
> Wanna dance? Better play catch up boy, since youre steppin on your own
> feet now.
>
What a fucking dick! Don't you got anything better to do? Like work?
@starband.net kjpro
> >I have 2 q's related to Goodman and I know this has been kicked around
> > before (I've read thro' this site).
>
>
>
> >But (1). can anyone comment about
> > the CPLT series 13 seer HP split. I believe these are newer and whether
> > the AEPT VS air handler is preferable with this unit. BTW is this the
> > same VS they use on the Amana?
>
> Amana bought out Goodman, and anything new they have, that even resembles
a
> legit unit, isnt Goodmans.
Goodman bought Amana...
@starband.net kjpro
> In article <q0YFe.3962$G71...@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > sometimes Weather King. Now i don't really do much residentiual but
Light
> > Commercial is what i do.
> Oh? That wasn't the story you've told in the past. Keeps changing with
> the telling. Senility settling in weasel?
I remember him being mostly Commercial... and saying he normally only does
residential for people he knows.
I also remember you not knowing of a swaging tool larger than 3/4.
> Paul's cat got a furball and kept saying weasel's name.
>
> *Hack* *Hack* *hack*
Names are to be Capitalized. :-)
@starband.net kjpro
If the Installing Company goed under, then you are only covered if the new
company honors the 'warranty company' you have purchased.
kjpro
Charles
> fucktard....
> Sucks to be a tech like you eh? Hope your boss is paying you more than you
> are worth, cause so far, I see a $4 an hour washpit boi.
>
>>>
For your information you backwoods hillbilly, i make $60k/year being a
washpot boy as you call them. Guess they still wash pots by hand where you
live you hick. Sure is nice to knowing I get to go home everyday with a
paycheck and none of the stress involved with running a company like you
claim you do. Didn't know they had electricity over there. Do they still
pipe it in!?
Hahahaahhaha!!!!!
Git-R-Done!!!
bill
"kjpro" <kjpro @ starband . net> wrote:
> I also remember you not knowing of a swaging tool larger than 3/4.
So. Is that like a big deal to you? Or you just feel you need to defend
weasel?
--
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> WOW , The word Goodman fires your rocket i see.
>
> Me , Judges, Your info of it, and all in a nutshell. You don't have a clue as
> to
> what was going on or the out come. Also Your surely are clueless as to what
> the
> deal was as to how it took place.
Nobody gives a shit about your criminal activity weasel. So stfu already.
We know you're a hack and use the cheapest shit you can get your hooks
on. So stfu already.
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.
>
> Earth to Stevey Wonder Blower, The three companys that you listed are not
> Licenced to work in Allen Parish or the City of Oakdale where i'm licenced to
> work at. snipped bullshit
Liar. You are unlicensed. Or have a legit company hack boi. Do try to
keep the lies down.
Carolina Breeze HVAC
>> Yea fuckhead, I work...I pay peons like you to do it for me..deal with it
>> fucktard....
>> Sucks to be a tech like you eh? Hope your boss is paying you more than
>> you are worth, cause so far, I see a $4 an hour washpit boi.
>>
>>>>
> For your information you backwoods hillbilly
LOL..know who ya talking to first of all...you didnt know that Im not from
here eh?
>, i make $60k/year being a washpot boy as you call them.
Wow...thats all?
Thats only 1250 a week...
or, in a perfect no tax world, under 34 an hour..
When you are ready to move up, then you can impress me. Most of the guys in
here make more than that a couple of times over.
> Guess they still wash pots by hand where you live you hick. Sure is nice
> to knowing I get to go home everyday with a paycheck and none of the
> stress involved with running a company like you claim you do. Didn't know
> they had electricity over there. Do they still pipe it in!?
Yea...they do, and get this, in my condo in Palm Springs CA, they even have
this neat pipe that comes up out of the ground that they pump water through
too..
Oh..and there is little stress here bubba...other than wondering how in
fucking hell I am gonna find time to go coyote hunting in this rain...
> Hahahaahhaha!!!!!
If thats the best you got, $4 per hour is paying you double what you are
worth.
> Git-R-Done!!!
Already did her...just ask her.
>
>
bill
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is Turtle.(weasel)
>
> It's lonely in the Unemployeed line ain't it ?
Is it?
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
It's lonely in the Unemployeed line ain't it ?
TURTLE
Vicki Szaszvari
as4603 wrote:
> I have 2 q's related to Goodman and I know this has been kicked around
> before (I've read thro' this site). But (1). can anyone comment about
> the CPLT series 13 seer HP split. I believe these are newer and whether
> the AEPT VS air handler is preferable with this unit. BTW is this the
> same VS they use on the Amana? (2) The ones who have something good to
> say blame the hacks for problems. How can you tell who is going to do a
> good job? I do notice that the outfits who claim superior service and
> have no quibble guarantees over and above the manufacturer's warranties
> are not putting in Goodman, at least in my area. Why aren't there more
> dealers who would buy cheap Goodman's add their expertise, charge a
> premium for that and still stay lower than the Trane prices and make a
> killing selling equally dependable units??
As easy as making a silk purse from a sow's ear. Goodman's are
dependable -- dependable sources of income for HVACR techs who repair
them and replace their unreliable parts.
Vicki Szaszvari
Charles wrote:
"Lifetime" warranty is not YOUR lifetime, dummy. And does not cover
parts (refrigerant, nitrogen, brazing materials, dryer, etc.) or labor.
Let's see what that POS looks like in five years. It'll be a pile of rust.
TURTLE
"Vicki Szaszvari" <vickin...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:dcgnb9$l...@dispatch.concentric.net...
This is Turtle.
Your words opens up a interesting subject. All the compressors that are
warrantied for a life times is Scroll compressors. The Scroll compressor is
going to out last the condenser coil , Frame, and motor verses the frame parts
missing. If you will check the price of a condenser coil for a CPLT you will
find it is more than the cost of a whole condenser unit it'self. If the
Condenser coil wears out or the frame rust out. You will not repair a CPLT with
a coil , frame , and parts. The parts will cost more than the whole thing. I can
buy the CPLT condenser unit cheaper than the condenser coil that goes on it.
The words you speak are being used in the lifetime warranty program.
A certain CPLT condenser unit $990.00 and the condenser coil for it is
$1,070.00. Who want a coil for this and can get a new one here.
TURTLE
Bob Loblaw
kjpro wrote:
> If the Installing Company goes under, then you are only covered if the new
> company honors the 'warranty company' you have purchased.
Good point, KJ, and I'm glad you brought it up for any lurking homeowners.
I for one don't work for reduced rates because of some company that's
gone bankrupt because of their "low, low prices!" mentality.
I get no-heat calls (and no-cooling calls) all the time that should be
under warranty, but the installer is no where to be found.
The homeowner expects me to fix it for free, then chase the insurance
company for a reduced labour and parts rate.
Ain't gonna happen!
Any time I price a job, I tell the customer "Once you've narrowed down
your choice of contractors to 2 or 3, phone them at 10 o'clock on a
Friday night and ask if they're available for a service call. Then
eliminate the ones that don't answer the phone, or can't come out until
Monday.
A warranty is only as good as the service tech that comes with it.
I sometimes use the analogy of a car salesman. Anyone can sell you a
car, but not everyone can fix them.
Same goes for HVAC contractors.
Respectfully, Bob
Bob Loblaw
kjpro wrote:
> "bill"
> I also remember you not knowing of a swaging tool larger than 3/4.
No flame intended KJ, but all of us should have the attitude of coming
here to learn something new once in a while.
Not being aware of a specific sized tool is not exactly a big strike
against you.
Respectfully, Bob
Bob Loblaw
Vicki Szaszvari wrote:
> Goodman's are
> dependable sources of income for HVACR techs who repair
> them and replace their unreliable parts.
Specifically, what parts on a Goodman fail more than the others?
The compressor? The contactor? The coils?
Personally, I don't like the cheap housing of a Goodman furnace. I have
also changed several circuit boards on them, but then again, I've
changed a lot of boards on Carrier's too! Remember the HK42's?
I sometimes wonder if it isn't mob mentality on our part to paint the
Goodman as so much worse than the others, but in reality, is their
failure rate any different than York, whose high efficiency ventor motor
squirrel cage flies apart because it's plastic? Or the earlier models
that had the ventor motor housing plastic coated that eventually
separated from the main housing?
Or the Lennox Elite with it's problematic circuit board and ventor motor?
Or the Keeprite/Heil/Tempstar with the clam-shell type heat exchanger
that was popping rings a few years back? Or the Keeprite with the
plastic secondary heat exchanger cover that cracked?
Or thr Polaris water heater with the shitty HSI's, the main burner that
rotted out, or the anode that fell apart?
Or the Clare that...well, pick just about any part....
So really, what SPECIFICALLY makes a Goodman worse than the rest?
Respectfully, Bob
TURTLE
"Bob Loblaw" <inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42EEA0FE...@hotmail.com...
This is Turtle.
You have to be water headed to try to do warranty work for a insurance company
that I sold them from WhoGives Ashit insurance comp. . If you will do that you
are ripe for American Home Shield. Years back Ruud had a insurance company that
insured the compressor on the electric package units for 10 years. the Insurance
Company went belly up and I run into 2 of them that i did not put in or sold the
insurance too. Both compressors was over the regular 5 year warranty and both
job i got paid for both and the last I heard the they were sueing the Ruud
Warehouse for the Insurance Policy they sold to the dealer at that time. i had
heard they did get paid for the new compressor and change out that i did. That
was the late 1980's or the early 1990's.
We are not in the insurance business but in the repair of HVAC equipment.
TURTLE
Bob Pietrangelo
who installed it cannot be contacted. Customer has had no maintnenance
performed on it since it was installed. He thought he had ten year parts
and labor. We charged him for the repair, gave him the parts. We told him
who to contact to try and get it covered.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Bob Loblaw" <inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42EEA0FE...@hotmail.com...
>
>
Carolina Breeze HVAC
>
>
> Vicki Szaszvari wrote:
>
>> Goodman's are dependable sources of income for HVACR techs who repair
>> them and replace their unreliable parts.
>
> Specifically, what parts on a Goodman fail more than the others?
> The compressor? The contactor? The coils?
You can bet your bottom dollar, that on any of the heat pumps, split, or
package, that the sequencer for the blower will fail, and that the sequencer
for the heat strips will fail.
If its a newer model, you can also bet that the ICB in the air handler will
fail.
> Personally, I don't like the cheap housing of a Goodman furnace. I have
> also changed several circuit boards on them, but then again, I've changed
> a lot of boards on Carrier's too! Remember the HK42's?
> I sometimes wonder if it isn't mob mentality on our part to paint the
> Goodman as so much worse than the others, but in reality, is their failure
> rate any different than York, whose high efficiency ventor motor squirrel
> cage flies apart because it's plastic? Or the earlier models that had the
> ventor motor housing plastic coated that eventually separated from the
> main housing?
Or the Rheem/Ruuds that had the same issue and the case cracked...or the
Goodmans that used platic plugs in the heat exchangers....etc..
> Or the Lennox Elite with it's problematic circuit board and ventor motor?
> Or the Keeprite/Heil/Tempstar with the clam-shell type heat exchanger that
> was popping rings a few years back? Or the Keeprite with the plastic
> secondary heat exchanger cover that cracked?
> Or thr Polaris water heater with the shitty HSI's, the main burner that
> rotted out, or the anode that fell apart?
> Or the Clare that...well, pick just about any part....
> So really, what SPECIFICALLY makes a Goodman worse than the rest?
The people that they sell to for the most part, and shitty parts design.
>
> Respectfully, Bob
>
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
While your telling here. You need to add the Frigidaire Compressor failure in 2
to 5 years & Luxaire Condenser units made by York when the terminal block on the
compressor blows out in 3 to 6 years. Goodman was doing it but they had enough
sence to start using Copland piston compressors and stop it.
Hey Every Manufactor ''''' produces trash and the good stuff ''''' , too, but
Goodman , Luxaire by York , and Frigidaire push their trash a whole lot more
than other manufactors do. The American customer is telling the manufactor what
they want and the manufactors are just producing what they ask for and not one
cent more in quality than requested. The price of the equipment reflects the
type customers who requested it. Some want Quality and other just want
Get-R-Done .
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Umm....name a model number that has a Frigidare compressor in it Terry made
in the last 15 years....
I have had ONE compressor failure in a York since I started selling them. It
was NOT one of mine that failed. Before I moved back home, another company
put in an Olympian 12 SEER 4 ton that used a scroll, and had the ductwork
and linesets screwed and it locked. It was 8 years old when it locked, but
it locked none the less.
My unit, a 14 SEER York 3.5 ton is now over 4 years old, and its still
running along....now, explain why the leads are still there and fine, and I
promise you, its not a Fridgidaire compressor.
>
> Hey Every Manufactor ''''' produces trash and the good stuff ''''' , too,
> but Goodman , Luxaire by York , and Frigidaire push their trash a whole
> lot more than other manufactors do.
Glad you seem to understand how York markets the brands...we have one
Luxaire supplier here, I dont deal with them, and I dont support the
equipment, altho, the ONLY difference in the Luxaire unit and a York is the
color of the case.
The difference in York and Goodman shit is as plain as night and day.
> The American customer is telling the manufactor what they want and the
> manufactors are just producing what they ask for and not one cent more in
> quality than requested. The price of the equipment reflects the type
> customers who requested it. Some want Quality and other just want
> Get-R-Done .
And hows it feel to know that some of us can install anything we want, for
about the same, or less than most Goodman dealers here do?
>
> TURTLE
>
Bob Loblaw
Carolina Breeze HVAC wrote:
> The difference in York and Goodman shit is as plain as night and day.
I don't see either brand failing more often than any of the others.
Seriously, tell me what this "plain as night and day" difference is.
I have 2 Luxaire furnaces and 2 Luxaire A/C units in my house, and I've
never had to service any of them in 3 years.
I'm hoping the ventor motors don't fly apart on furnaces, but so far, so
good.
I'm convinced that most of us slam the Goodman's because we hear
everyone else slamming them.
Understand that I'm not saying they're great products, only that they're
no worse than the others when it comes to failure rates.
Respectfully, Bob
Bob Loblaw
Carolina Breeze HVAC wrote:
> You can bet your bottom dollar, that on any of the heat pumps, split, or
> package, that the sequencer for the blower will fail, and that the sequencer
> for the heat strips will fail.
OK. I haven't seen this, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.
Still, a sequencer is a lot cheaper than a circuit board or a ventor.
The Clare Megasave had problematic sequencers as well.
You can't condemn their equipment as junk because of lousy sequencers.
> If its a newer model, you can also bet that the ICB in the air handler will
> fail.
What's an ICB?
Respectfully, Bob
Carolina Breeze HVAC
>
>
> Carolina Breeze HVAC wrote:
>
>> The difference in York and Goodman shit is as plain as night and day.
>
> I don't see either brand failing more often than any of the others.
> Seriously, tell me what this "plain as night and day" difference is.
Look at the units for starters. Take a plain jane Goodman, and a plain jane
York..
Start with the finish. How many Goodmans you see turning light grey after a
couple of months? Most of them.
York recently on the the low end (Lattitude, formerly Olympian) and on the
Champion package units changed the color, but the finish still looks the
same as far as the quality.
Look at the tops of the units. IF a fan were to fail on a York, and those AO
Smiths can, altho, perhaps not in my opinion as quickly as those GEs used on
the Goodman, you take 3 screws on the Lattitude line off for the side cover,
and 4 for the ran grill, then, you can drop the fan and replace it.
Wtih the Goodman, you take the entire top off, easy enough, replace the fan,
feed your wires through a section of 1/2 jinch PVC pipe that you may, or may
not have issues with, fight to get it back into that rubber fan shield, and
by that time, the guy with the Yorks been running for half an hour, while
you are still fighting to get the lid on the Goodman to fit right, with the
outer grille not wanting to line up right.
If its a heat pump, look at the way the board is on the Goodman , VS the
York product. The Goodman board it right in the same place as the York, for
the most part. But, the standoffs (I would have swore there was only one
sort of quality there of nylon) on the Goodman seem to be plastic and not
nylon, and break when you remove the board, and over time, have even seen
them go to a powder and let the board hang there.
York screws them on.
How about the case it self? The Goodman is made of a cheaper grade steel,
and if its not, it goes right back to the finish. Seems that every one that
we service is rusting after a couple of years.
Air handlers...easy enough and simple.
York uses a foam seal along the acess doors, and even supplies two rubber
seals for the refrigerant lines. The cases are painted and the units are
designed on the FRP series to be mounted anyway you can imagine with only 4
screws taken out and a pan moved. The control boards are fused in case of a
short, and are simple to wire, with a defrost variance added in. The ONLY
terminial that isnt there is the trouble term, and all you do is wirenut it
to your stat wire for the trouble warning light. The insulation is
there...its NOT just regular ductwrap thats gonna peel off in a couple of
seasons. Goodmans I have worked on normally have the door insulation falling
out or getting sucked into the cage in a few seasons.
The controls for the heat strips are real relays, not sequencers that seem
to fail on a more regular basis than they would like to admit. The local
Goodman supplier has taken to not even asking the units model and serial
when you bring one in, they just give you a new one....you got it...no
warranty info asked on a sequencer..just, here, make it work.
Goodmans case....looks like someone got ahold of a bad beer can recycler.
Its flimsy, its cheap, the screws strip out the 3rd or 4th service, no
relays except on the higher end models that still use the same cheap
case...and dont get me started on the package unit differences..change out a
blower on a goodman heat pump package unit and you will be left looking at a
motor housing that you cant get out unless you take out a couple of bolts on
the wrong side, and even then, you wonder why they even bothered...and thats
30 minutes into it...
A York..two screws and slide the blower out, remove a molex plug and bingo,
its new motor time.
>
> I have 2 Luxaire furnaces and 2 Luxaire A/C units in my house, and I've
> never had to service any of them in 3 years.
Service, or REPAIR?
Service em each year, repair as little as needed.
> I'm hoping the ventor motors don't fly apart on furnaces, but so far, so
> good.
Personally, never seen it, but thats not to say it hasnt, or wont happen to
me, or anyone else.
> I'm convinced that most of us slam the Goodman's because we hear everyone
> else slamming them.
Nope...I dont slam them...tell it like it is..if a customer WANTS to buy a
Yugo at a Ferrarai price, by someone that wont be around chances are in a
couple of years, let him.
Dont bitch when it breaks and you cant get what you thought you could for
free.
> Understand that I'm not saying they're great products, only that they're
> no worse than the others when it comes to failure rates.
Perhaps, but then its a numbers game.
Goodman sells to anyone, will allow anyone to install them. They sell more
units than anyone, so of COURSE we will see more failure rates then others.
However...
All things being equal, would you not admit that you see alot more OLDER
units that are still running and not replaced with more respectable
names...York, Carrier, Trane, Rheem..etc, than you do with the old JaniJunk
name on them?
>
> Respectfully, Bob
>
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Was thinking integrated control board...
>
> Respectfully, Bob
>
Bob Loblaw
> jane York..
I agree with you about the flimsy housing. Your other complaint about them
being a pain in the ass to service (removing fan)is valid, but so are many
others (Lennox, built to work, not work on.)
You restated the problem with the sequencers.
Again, this doesn't constitute a higher failure rate than other brands, it
only reinforces the fact that all brands have their quirks.
If we were seeing higher failure rates for compressors, fan motors, heat
exchangers, ventor motors,( and again, higher than the rest,) then I would
agree that the Goodman is crap. But nobody has yet to give a valid reason
why Goodman is substantially worse than any other brand.
What I have seen over the years is that most major brands use the same
parts, ie. Honeywell, Robershaw, White Rogers, Copeland, Techumseth, GE,
etc...
The differences between the brands is minimal at best.
You stated a good point about Goodman selling to any and all hacks out
there, but a failed unit that's due to a bad install can't be blamed on the
brand.
I have looked at this from all sides, and this blanket statement that so
many in our trade are making about the Goodman being the worst piece of
crap out there, just doesn't hold water.
It's no better, no worse than the rest.
Respectfully, Bob
TURTLE
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:7uWHe.598$Uz1....@eagle.america.net...
This is Turtle.
Awwwwwwww, A ICB board like you say does not go in a air handler on a Goodman
stuff , but does go in a Goodman gas furnace. When Downing Brands , You need to
get it Right to stay professional.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
For the Reading impaired I will have to start seperating the words for you to
not get them confussed. When I said Frigidaire Compressor Failures but should
have said [ Frigidaire Condenser unit ] compressors failure and not lead you to
your reading problem and seperate all the words out to not confuss you. Sorry I
will try to type better to not confuss you with your impairment.
Now to the You started selling York , You have not changed out but one
compressor since you started selling them. one of two things is going on here.
1] You just started selling them lately or 2] You burn them so bad that they
don't call you back to do it again.
You state that You don't like or deal with Luxaire , but then you say a Luxaire
in the same unit inside the shell of the York unit and Both being the same. You
better stop compairing Luxaire to York in anyway. In this part of the country
Luxaire is having hell with compressors burning up less than the 5 years
warranty period. York is not the same as Luxaire because there must be something
different inside the box to not have the same trouble. I don't sell the Luxaire
trash made by York and could care less about the problem.
Your last statement about you can and install most brands as cheap as the most
of the Goodman Dealer can around here. You say the Luxaire is the same thing as
persay your words as a York and I can buy a Luxaire cheaper than a Goodman now ,
So I can buy a York Cheaper than a Goodman Now a days. So I can install a York
Cheaper than a Goodman Now a days. So Me Too !
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Obviously, you have not been in a newer air handler and seen the board in
it.
Thats ok..I know how you are with the new stuff Terry....
Scared as hell of it.
>
>
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Terry, I dont go fucking judges to make money.
Oh...btw....thought you did light commercial only liar.
Jake
> short, and are simple to wire, with a defrost variance added in.
Just a question for my curiosity... Are you saying there are NO fuses on
the Goodman Control Board or that the various outputs may-or-may-not be
fused?
> The controls for the heat strips are real relays, not sequencers that seem
> to fail on a more regular basis than they would like to admit. The local
> Goodman supplier has taken to not even asking the units model and serial
> when you bring one in, they just give you a new one....you got it...no
> warranty info asked on a sequencer..just, here, make it work.
Ok, here's a 'newbie' question for you all: What's the difference
between a sequencer and a trio of relays? The sequencers I've looked at
appear to be nothing more than 'stacked' relays anyhow.. no inherent
timing or other functions. Is this correct?
Thanks,
Jake
RP
A sequencer is thermal time delay relay.
hvacrmedic
Paul
>The difference in York and Goodman shit is .......
Its refreshing to see that you consider both York and Goodman as shit....
One day, in the far distant future, you'll realize it makes far more economic
sense to sell your own Brand (in this case Carolina Breeze HVAC) than to be a
mouthpiece and mobile billboard for York.
Jake
>>> seem to fail on a more regular basis than they would like to admit.
>>> The local Goodman supplier has taken to not even asking the units
>>> model and serial when you bring one in, they just give you a new
>>> one....you got it...no warranty info asked on a sequencer..just,
>>> here, make it work.
>>
>
>
> hvacrmedic
>
>
OK, I found some info after looking around... Thanks!
So is Steve saying the York boards control the time delay and pull in
real relays instead this archaic bi-metal stepping scheme. That seems
like a good idea to me...
Geeze, we quit using bi-metal and pneumatics for timing 20 years ago in
the industrial sector... 10 years ago for motor overloads.
Jake
Jake
> sense to sell your own Brand (in this case Carolina Breeze HVAC) than to be a
> mouthpiece and mobile billboard for York.
Boy, some days I hate to agree with Paul (especially about another Man's
business) but this insight is something to consider, Steve.
I am *Very* closely aligned with Allen Bradley in our controls business,
but we find it very useful to offer a whole lot of options to our
customers. After all, they're the ones footing the bill and if they have
the benefit of all your professional knowledge (and opinion), that
should be enough.
A/B makes very fine equipment... stuff that will out-last all of the
competitors, IMO, and many customers want and need that reliability.
Others do not. It's all about choices. Our designs offer
cream-of-the-crop Allen Bradley, ABB, Square D, Cutler-Hammer and a host
of other premier manufacturers.
Or we can use Hitachi drives, or Marathon motors, or Siemens
switchgear... all of which are considerably less expensive then top-shelf.
In our business, it isn't about what you're selling... it's about
suiting the equipment to the customer's needs and expectations. Most
don't give a shit about serviceability (although it will cost them
later), or the manufacturers support of the product, or the relationship
they have with their dealers. The just want equipment that will run, can
be purchased on their budget, and (hopefully) makes it to the end of its
useful life without major problems.
I can't think the resi market is much different in this respect, but
maybe I'm wrong!
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>> One day, in the far distant future, you'll realize it makes far more economic
>> sense to sell your own Brand (in this case Carolina Breeze HVAC) than to be a
>> mouthpiece and mobile billboard for York.
>
>Boy, some days I hate to agree with Paul (especially about another Man's
>business) but this insight is something to consider, Steve.
Agree with WHO ? Wasn't me, dude -
Easynet morpher again. The asshole .....
Of course, I KNOW you knew that, because you couldn't POSSIBLY
EVER 'hate to agree' with ME !!! :-)
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Noon-Air
Goodman is the only brand that when a cover panel is leaned up against a
wall will bend under its own weight.
BTW Bob, just what brand of equipment do you sell and what do you have
installed in your own home??
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Earth to Steve the Sea Whizzer , There is no ICB board in a Goodman air handler
except a time delay that you have been bad mouthing that was change from a
sequancer to a time delay card. They don't have ICB Boards in Goodman Air
Handlers. You can bullshit some people some of the time but all the time you
can't bullshit everybody.
Again THEY DON'T HAVE ICB IN GOODMAN AIR HANDLERS ! Please try to catch on
here.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
When you start dealing with people with money you will never see come back and
tell me about loosing 1.2Million Dollars because a Federal Judge Lied to you.
Luxaire , Goodman, and York make 10 and 15 ton units and i install them but what
part of the 10 tons units is not light commecial. You didn't hit your head too
did you ?
TURTLE
Paul
But nobody has yet to give a valid reason
>why Goodman is substantially worse than any other brand.
>The differences between the brands is minimal at best.
>You stated a good point about Goodman selling to any and all hacks out
>there, but a failed unit that's due to a bad install can't be blamed on the
>brand.
>I have looked at this from all sides, and this blanket statement that so
>many in our trade are making about the Goodman being the worst piece of
>crap out there, just doesn't hold water.
>It's no better, no worse than the rest.
The differences are subtle, but when all added together, Goodman will always be
perceived as a cheaper brand.
Does Goodman even make a downshot package 5 tons & under? Have you ever seen a
factory installed filter frame in a pkg unit 5 and under? Economizer? Fresh
air hood with damper? Fused 24 volt supply?
A bigger issue is Dealer Training and continuing education programs.
Non-existant. Any Tom, Bill or Dave (think one-man-bands) can sell & install
Goodman. As such, few feel a need to upgrade their hvac education, and even if
they did, Goodman isn't offering any.
I support the manufacturers who support me. Maybe I have a need and desire to
learn about Centrifical Chillers, or DDC or VVT or maybe an ECM motor class.
Since the customer pays for everything, isn't it in my and their best interest
to provide them with the best equipment, installed by the best trained crews
possible?
Say, does Goodman co-op on uniforms, marketing & advertising?
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Paul" <paul...@jamesmechanical.com> wrote in message
news:p6m2f19sj59qakidt...@4ax.com...
Jake
>
> Of course, I KNOW you knew that, because you couldn't POSSIBLY
> EVER 'hate to agree' with ME !!! :-)
I did know that...but it was a good segue so I could start preaching!
BTW, I LOVE to both agree -and- disagree with you sometimes... makes
life interesting!
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
TURTLE
"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:c6dIe.235416$xm3.160714@attbi_s21...
This is Turtle.
The HVAC industry is still on Cost effect materialing and have not got to
Quality Effective yet. Cost is the big thing now with us and not Quality
thinking yet.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l7eIe.858$N93...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I'm not sure anyone would buy such crudely named product.
>
> --
>
> Christopher A. Young
This is Turtle.
I don't Know stormy , The public bought the Name Janitrol and called Janitor by
a lot of customers. You know the fellow who cleans the towlet.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
the reason i got Mostly out of the residentiual market is they wanted you to
tell them they was buying the top shelf equipment but getting the rock bottom
price that it can be offered at. Here is a example of this.
There was a fellow who wanted to change out his 2 ton to a 3.5 ton system which
my heat load said it needed. It would run 24 / 7 and never get the house under
82ºF anytime during the summer. I sized the equipment and set up the job and he
said hey i want to bid it out. I said Ok but i will get paid for the heat load
and the first service call, and i will bid on it. He got my bid and 2 others. I
and one of the bidders was pretty close but one was very low which was the
Luxaire dealer. I have known the fellow all my life and check with him and said
well hope he does you a good job. The customer told me that he was not going to
forget me for he was going to get me to fix or repair any screw up's the
Luxiaire fellow did and was going to have me do his work. I just said Ok and
went on. I end up redoing some ductwork, Weld up a leak on the tubing lines, and
put the correct breakers for the outside unit. His bill from me was about
$500.00 and he was happy to pay it. He told me the bid was over a $1,000.00
cheaper and he got me for $500.00 to redo what the fellow screwed up and he
still saved $500.00. Now the fellow will not come back while the warranty is
still effect and will have to pay me for service. Hey i don't care what customer
do as long as they pay me for what I do.
Jake , Residentiual Customers want to be lied to and told they are getting the
best equipment known to man and not told about them being screwed with some off
the wall service company and off the wall cheap ass equipment know to man. You
would laugh your ass off if you could hear some story there is in this
salemanship dealing.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
Thanks for your input....you are correct...I should just not give a shit
what I put in....
However, I dont really care but you knew that.
Bob Loblaw
> Goodman is the only brand that when a cover panel is leaned up against
> a wall will bend under its own weight.
Agreed. Their housing is flimsy, but that doesn't warrant condeming the
brand as garbage.
> BTW Bob, just what brand of equipment do you sell and what do you have
> installed in your own home??
My home has two furnaces and two A/C's, both Luxaire, which as far as I can
tell are identical to York as far as inner components go. The ventor motors
sure look the same. BTW, they came with the house.
What do I sell?
Keeprites are popular around here (Toronto). I have also installed some
Lennox no-name units (I think they're called Airflow??). They are made by a
company owned by Lennox.
I wouldn't wave the flag of any specific brand. I like Keeprite for parts
availability and warranty support, but I hate the positioining of their
service valves. I also had 2 evaporators with holes in them right out of
the box.
Lennox is reliable, but is overpriced.
I offer Luxaire, but haven't sold any yet.
My bread and butter is service work, not new installs, so I won't hitch my
wagon to any specific brand. The reason being, if I became a Lennox dealer,
they expect me to show their logo in my phone book advertisment. This will
cause some people to think that we only service Lennox, so they may go
elsewhere if they have , say, a Carrier.
But it's because we do mostly service work that we see just about every
brand out there. It suddenly occured to me that, even though we slam the
Goodman as being junk, I'm really not seeing a higher than usuall failure
rate for them. Certainly not any more than other brands.
As I said before, I'm not trying to sell anybody on the Goodman, I'm just
trying to clear up a falacy.
Respectfully, Bob
Bob Loblaw
> The differences are subtle, but when all added together, Goodman will
> always be perceived as a cheaper brand.
>
> Does Goodman even make a downshot package 5 tons & under? Have you
> ever seen a factory installed filter frame in a pkg unit 5 and under?
> Economizer? Fresh air hood with damper? Fused 24 volt supply?
Again, this isn't a reflection on the reliability of the unit.
My car may not have 8 speakers, heated leather seats, or a power sunroof
(my wife's does, though......and mine doesn't......wonder how that came
about??...hmmmmm), but that doesn't make it a less reliable car.
> A bigger issue is Dealer Training and continuing education programs.
> Non-existant.
>Any Tom, Bill or Dave (think one-man-bands) can sell &
> install Goodman. As such, few feel a need to upgrade their hvac
> education, and even if they did, Goodman isn't offering any.
Do you need special courses to install Goodman's?
That's more a reflection on the installer, not the brand.
> I support the manufacturers who support me. Maybe I have a need and
> desire to learn about Centrifical Chillers, or DDC or VVT or maybe an
> ECM motor class.
You're obviously dedicated and conscientious. You take the initiative to
further your knowledge.But I would suspect most of your knowledge and
upgraded information came from courses taken at local colleges, not
supply houses.
> Since the customer pays for everything, isn't it in my and their best
> interest to provide them with the best equipment, installed by the
> best trained crews possible?
Absolutely! But consider this, Paul.
Take your well trained crews, and install 5 different brands.
All properly sized. All brazed with a dry nitrogen purge.
All vacuumed down to 400 microns. All leak tested.
All balanced down to the 1/4 ounce charge.
Now, tell me why the Goodman will fail before the others?
Respectfully, Bob
Stormin Mormon
had a 2.5 ton condensing unit called "the frucking thing" would sell a lot
of them. It would be just the name plate to bring when the customer is hot
and says to "get the frucking thing working".
How about you and me buy some Goodmans, and put our own stickers over the
name plate? I'll give you 10% of the profits.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yLgIe.12680$Mo....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
udarrell
>"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote
>
>
>Clipped ----
>Lennox is reliable, but is overpriced.
>I offer Luxaire, but haven't sold any yet.
>My bread and butter is service work, not new installs, so I won't hitch my
>wagon to any specific brand. The reason being, if I became a Lennox dealer,
>they expect me to show their logo in my phone book advertisment. This will
>cause some people to think that we only service Lennox, so they may go
>elsewhere if they have , say, a Carrier.
>But it's because we do mostly service work that we see just about every
>brand out there. It suddenly occured to me that, even though we slam the
>Goodman as being junk,
>
>I'm really not seeing a higher than usuall failure
>rate for them. Certainly not any more than other brands.
>As I said before, I'm not trying to sell anybody on the Goodman, I'm just
>trying to clear up a falacy. Respectfully, Bob
>
>
<>Considering that the Goodman equipment installers are considered
inept, it would appear that the equipment does will, --to be on a par
with the prestigious brands.
In decades past, Goodman cabinets were not up to par, however the gut
components including their copper coils appeared to standup better than
the older round Carriers’ that were much more difficult to service, and
others condensers and evaporators with aluminum coils, and had too many
needless extras that were causing service calls.
<>(Good for us, not for the equipment owner.) I would add safety feature
components if a customer decided he/she wanted them. <>The old
Frazer-Johnson condensers’ had suction line accumulators on them; in
northern states, even the regular A/C units need them, along with
crankcase heaters <>I gave the customer the straight scoop on several
brands and gave them a choice. For whatever the reasons most chose
Goodman, aka GMC, and Janitrol.
I did a lot of service work and it was very rare to get any calls on
those three brand names, and there were a lot of them in service for
years in my service area. I got many calls for Carriers and I never sold
them. (Go figure...)
- udarrell
--
Factors in the Correct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems -
Recommended Procedures for Proper Duct Sizing of Residential Air Conditioning Systems
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:09:15 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Some want Quality and other just want
>Get-R-Done .
I had Larry install my last Coleman...
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=RlVO
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:49:13 -0400, Bob Loblaw
<inocent...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>tell me what this "plain as night and day" difference is.
Maybe he meant "Day and Night".
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=pSN+
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 23:25:37 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>You know the fellow who cleans the towlet.
What's a towlet... a small towel for the toilet?
BTW: I once tried a combustible plaything, but I had
too much trouble keeping the toy lit.
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=0dHg
~^Johnny^~
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 20:39:33 -0500, "TURTLE"
<turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>You have to be water headed to try to do warranty work for a
>insurance company that I sold them from WhoGives Ashit insurance
>comp. .
You know, you really should find a different dermatologist. They
have
developed some remarkable new treatments for Acme...
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z5EKetJ3gpb2IXWu57FCvNMi
=ABTz
Jake
> And you'll be half right :-)
>
>
...and the other half the time, I'll learn something... so I win either
way (-;.
Jake
Jake
> Jake , Residentiual Customers want to be lied to and told they are getting the
> best equipment known to man and not told about them being screwed with some off
> the wall service company and off the wall cheap ass equipment know to man. You
> would laugh your ass off if you could hear some story there is in this
> salemanship dealing.
>
> TURTLE
>
>
It's the same in the commercial world, I guess. People always are
looking for the 'bargain' but expect the 'best'. They usually come back
to who they trust.
Here's one for you: We're doing a VS job on some Ingersoll-Rand Screw
air compressors. Anybody that deals with I/R will tell you that they
don't like you monkeying with their stuff. Now, it is well designed
equipment, and might suit 'general' requirements, but mods can help a
customer get more efficiency and longer life in a given application.
We needed a oil that would protect a large screw at lower RPM's. I/R has
a premium "Ultra-Cool SSR" that we were told would fit the bill. $65.00
a GALLON... and a 300 hp screw takes 80 gallons or so. DuPont makes
Ultra-Cool SSR.
Now, Gardner Denver has a semi-synthetic oil called AEON 4000, which
they claim will also do the job... for about $12.00 a gallon. In all
fairness, Ultra-Cool is a 6000 hour rated oil and AEON is 4000 hours.
A 300 HP I/R machine costs about $186,000 new. There was a lot of debate
about whether to spend the money for a premium product or try AEON.
We tried AEON... did oil testing every 1000 hours, constantly monitored
temperatures, read separator differentials, and even checked the
"carry-over" that is common in screw compressors. The AEON performed
BETTER in constant demand-ramping applications.
So, I/R tries to cash-in on consumables, and G/D makes screws that last
a good long time and (have inherent throttling capability) and the
consumables are cheaper by a multiple of SIX.
Sometimes, the name doesn't mean everything.
No, I don't sell G/D air compressors... just VERY unpressed with the
company.
Jake
Paul
>"Paul" <paul...@jamesmechanical.com> wrote
>
>
>> The differences are subtle, but when all added together, Goodman will
>> always be perceived as a cheaper brand.
>>
>> Does Goodman even make a downshot package 5 tons & under? Have you
>> ever seen a factory installed filter frame in a pkg unit 5 and under?
>> Economizer? Fresh air hood with damper? Fused 24 volt supply?
>
>
>
>Again, this isn't a reflection on the reliability of the unit.
>My car may not have 8 speakers, heated leather seats, or a power sunroof
>(my wife's does, though......and mine doesn't......wonder how that came
>about??...hmmmmm), but that doesn't make it a less reliable car.
For me, and I suspect for many other contractors, it comes down to being able
to offer a customer a complete lineup of equipment. If all a person does is
residential splits, the Goodman line serves admirably. They're built as cheaply
as possible, and thus sold cheaper than most all other brands.
In my area, Goodman/Janitrol was primarily marketed by Johnstones. Within the
last year a Goodman dealership has opened.
>
>
>
>> A bigger issue is Dealer Training and continuing education programs.
>> Non-existant.
>>Any Tom, Bill or Dave (think one-man-bands) can sell &
>> install Goodman. As such, few feel a need to upgrade their hvac
>> education, and even if they did, Goodman isn't offering any.
>
>Do you need special courses to install Goodman's?
>That's more a reflection on the installer, not the brand.
>
Nope, any moron errrr person can install a Goodman. Does your local Goodman
distributor offer 410A certification classes? Here locally, carrier, trane,
york, rheem all do. No cert., no equipment sales.
I remember a time in the 70's when Lennox would not sell a heat pump to even
their dealers until someone from the dealership had attended and passed a heat
pump certification class.
>
>
>
>> I support the manufacturers who support me. Maybe I have a need and
>> desire to learn about Centrifical Chillers, or DDC or VVT or maybe an
>> ECM motor class.
>
>
>You're obviously dedicated and conscientious. You take the initiative to
>further your knowledge.But I would suspect most of your knowledge and
>upgraded information came from courses taken at local colleges, not
>supply houses.
Not true Bob. The local Jr colleges and trade schools have 3-4 month courses.
This is what I'm talking about:
http://www.us-ac.com/dealer_training.asp
http://www.westernairsystems.com/training/training_05.pdf
http://www.aircold.com/Training/TrainCalendar.html
>
>
>> Since the customer pays for everything, isn't it in my and their best
>> interest to provide them with the best equipment, installed by the
>> best trained crews possible?
>
>
>Absolutely! But consider this, Paul.
>Take your well trained crews, and install 5 different brands.
>All properly sized. All brazed with a dry nitrogen purge.
>All vacuumed down to 400 microns. All leak tested.
>All balanced down to the 1/4 ounce charge.
>Now, tell me why the Goodman will fail before the others?
I don't know the reason why, I suspect that's a Goodman trade secret. :)
>
>Respectfully, Bob
>
>
Paul (not the software salesman)
Bob Pietrangelo
entire bill (except for compressor) You chargd your normal change out rate,
charge for evac, charge for recovery, charge for torch mats, charge for
drier, charge for 22, charge for caps, .....then they will send customer a
check for $300. Just went through it yesterday. There cabinets although
very flimsy do not hold paint and rust quickly, heat exchangers are always
suspect, door swithches contantly break, panel locks are a pain in the ass.
Why are we trying to defend this brand it is the bottom of the barrel, and I
associate the contractors that push this the most as the same. Someone, I
think it was Loblaw, what kind do you sell, and what kind do you own. I
sell primarily Trane, Rudd, Lochinvar, and Viessmann. I have two Trane
systems in house, 13 SEER variable and 17 SEER variable XL19i & XR12. Both
scratch and dents. I have a Carrier BW9 boiler with 5 zones all circs with
a Plus 40 indirect. When the BW9 pisses me off I am putting in a Vitodens
200 with Crown Megastor. I also have 4 radiant zones.
..................don't tell anyone but my AC isn't 100% finished yet but
should be by the end of the century!!!
My point is Goodman is the YUGO of the HVAC world. Call a spade a spade.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Paul" <paul...@jamesmechanical.com> wrote in message
news:7in2f15tgeq8lvkml...@4ax.com...
Bob Pietrangelo
--
Bob Pietrangelo
bo...@comcast.net
b...@comfort-solution.biz
www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist
"Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
news:1n8Ie.38$aP2...@eagle.america.net...
>
> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:ye8Ie.829$%X1...@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Carolina Breeze HVAC" <st...@carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote in message
> > news:tGNHe.543$Uz1....@eagle.america.net...
> >>
> >> "TURTLE" <turtl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> equipment, altho, the ONLY difference in the Luxaire unit and a York is
> >> the color of the case.
> >> The difference in York and Goodman shit is as plain as night and day.
> >>
> >>> The American customer is telling the manufactor what they want and the
> >>> manufactors are just producing what they ask for and not one cent more
> >>> in quality than requested. The price of the equipment reflects the
type
> >>> customers who requested it. Some want Quality and other just want
> >>> Get-R-Done .
> >>
> >> And hows it feel to know that some of us can install anything we want,
> >> for about the same, or less than most Goodman dealers here do?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > This is Turtle.
> >
> > For the Reading impaired I will have to start seperating the words for
you
> > to not get them confussed. When I said Frigidaire Compressor Failures
but
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>My point is Goodman is the YUGO of the HVAC world. Call a spade a spade.
YU GO, BOY !!!
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>What does confuss mean?
It's a Southern thing.
When you get breakfast, and she asks 'How you want them eggs,
sweetie-pie ?', you say 'confuss 'em, plase', which means 'scrambled,
please' up north.
Oh - you're getting grits, too. Shut fuck up and eat them,
unless you want to get hurt in the parking lot.
No, you don't need to know what they are, just shut up and
eat. If you can't taste them ( of course you can't ! ), that's why
there's a bottle of tabasco on the table.
The yellow spot in the middle of the grits ? Well, you're
just gonna HOPE that it's melted butter.
Now shut up and eat yer grits.
Don't bother telling her what you want as a beverage, you're
getting coffee, so learn to like it.
Around lunch they'll start asking 'What to drink ?'.
Jake, I hope you're learning here ......
Jake
>
> When you get breakfast, and she asks 'How you want them eggs,
> sweetie-pie ?', you say 'confuss 'em, plase', which means 'scrambled,
> please' up north.
>
> Oh - you're getting grits, too. Shut fuck up and eat them,
> unless you want to get hurt in the parking lot.
>
> No, you don't need to know what they are, just shut up and
> eat. If you can't taste them ( of course you can't ! ), that's why
> there's a bottle of tabasco on the table.
>
> The yellow spot in the middle of the grits ? Well, you're
> just gonna HOPE that it's melted butter.
>
> Now shut up and eat yer grits.
>
> Don't bother telling her what you want as a beverage, you're
> getting coffee, so learn to like it.
>
> Around lunch they'll start asking 'What to drink ?'.
>
> Jake, I hope you're learning here ......
OK, I got it....
But I like grits, and coffee.... and Tabasco.
Even though the Carolinas like to claim southern heritage (and there is
some history there to back that up, I'd admit) there is a huge cultural
difference between those locales and where I grew up in Alabama.. and
I'd guess LA and MS, too!
If you refuse grits in many parts of Alabama, you ain't gonna get your
breakfast at all... or you will, with grits, whether you like it or not!
And around lunch, it better be beer, or ice tea, or just plain "Cola".
They'll know what you mean.
The cultures are different Paul... and others... There are good people
there that have a entirely different attitude. I'm sure Terry and Steve
see this every day.
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>And around lunch, it better be beer, or ice tea, or just plain "Cola".
>They'll know what you mean.
That's 'sweet tA' and 'Co Cola', thank you very much !
>The cultures are different Paul...
Yeh, that's what the lab said :-) But the DNA showed an erie
and somewhat disturbing similarity ......
>and others... There are good people
>there that have a entirely different attitude. I'm sure Terry and Steve
>see this every day.
FWIW - Steve lives north of me :-)
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
> > It's a Southern thing.
Some of my favorite calls were actually the '**OLD** country
stores, the ones where everything on the shelves and in the window,
both the decorations and the stock, would fetch a FORTUNE on 5th
avenue as 'bona fide 100 year old antiques', and the owner put them
there himself when he opened the store, and they were new back then,
and so was he, and he's still sitting there, and so are they :-)
The ones where the original 'ice box' was exactly that, a
large box for 'pop' and blocks of ice under it, and you can go out
back past the Chevy-on-blocks and look if you don't believe it :-)
Dems da grits :-)
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
The Culture here is or would be strange to most snow birds. Here is one. A
TURTLE
> It's very possible. I can imagine on some hot day, that a parts house that
> had a 2.5 ton condensing unit called "the frucking thing" would sell a lot
> of them. It would be just the name plate to bring when the customer is hot
> and says to "get the frucking thing working".
>
> How about you and me buy some Goodmans, and put our own stickers over the
> name plate? I'll give you 10% of the profits.
>
> --
>
> Christopher A. Young
This is Turtle.
Hey Goodman has you covered already. Contract with Goodman for atleast 10,000
complete systems over a 2 year period and they will manufactor the system with
your name on it. the Model and Serial number will still be Goodman but the 3 or
4 letter at the model number would be your company letter. Like
CKL''''S''''' -24-1.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle
I use to work on some 100 horse I/R air compressors off shore and were 1 piston
up right and every 2 or 3 years we would have to over haul them with a I/R
rebuild kit. Them compressor was like clock work when they would go out. they
had them on the P.M. sheets to over haul them and when you did you could tell
they were wore out. the Valve, reeds, and rings was some wore out. Back then
they would just use turbine oil to oil them with 5 Weight oil. .
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
fellow I know come to ask me about a fellow tring to repo his house from him and
he has never missed a note in 20 years. he got me to call a lawyer and tell him
this. Hey Todd , I got a fellow getting sued to repo his house and he has never
missed a note in 20 years and has all the receipts. Todd said hey send him over
to the office and i will tighten up this repo clown. Todd run the paperwork and
the fellow only had a 20 years note and had already paid it off 6 months ago.
Todd fired up the paper work to recoupe the over payment he paid to the fellow
for the last 6 months. The fellow got his house paid off, collected a $2,400.00
over payment, and the lawyer charged him $450.00 to settle it for him.
You go see a hvac fellow to get a Lawyer. This is Strange.
TURTLE
Carolina Breeze HVAC
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:2di5f19t7o7s6eqi6...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:56:39 -0400, "Bob Pietrangelo"
> <bo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>My point is Goodman is the YUGO of the HVAC world. Call a spade a spade.
>
> YU GO, BOY !!!
>
>
Da-hat-so- smart ya know?
yes..thats spelled wrong for a reason..ololol
as4603
look at a CPLT 13 series and it does look cheap. I noticed that the fan
housing was screwed directly to the top, the screws are exposed, just
like my 15 year old Amana which looks like crap (but has been running
with no problems I have to say). My 11 yr old Carrier Tech 2000
condenser fan is mounted inside the unit and it looks like there is a
rubber pad or isolation mount fitted to the cabinet. I saw a 10 SEER in
the same series and it sure was making a racket. The louvered panel
that covers the coil was fluttering in the condenser fan exhaust. You'd
have to take a lot of screws off to flush out the coil from inside.
Also there was no compressor blanket on the 13 although Goodman
advertises one on their web site. All of this does not necessarily mean
squat for reliability but it sure looks like the cabinet won't look
good long. BTW I had a guy bid $2,600 for a 13 SEER with Air handler as
a replacement. That sounds awful cheap to me...
Noon-Air
"as4603" <as4603...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:1123297975.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I just quoted a 4 ton 13+ SEER heat pump and air handler replacement for
over twice that.
Bubba
wrote:
I just installed a 4 ton 13 SEER Goodman Heat Pump with 5 ton variable
speed Goodman air handler, Aprilaire 550, Spacegard 2200, return drop
and other little necessities for $6700. I also got a better than
average cost on the equipment since it went into a relatives house of
the local Johnstone owner.
Otherwise it would have been different equipment.
Bubba
TURTLE
"udarrell" <anon...@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:42f2a...@newspeer2.tds.net...
This is Turtle.
Darrel , the bad years for trouble of the compressors burning up was 1995 / 1996
/ 1997 with most all being the 1996 year model messing up the most. Now other
years , i seen no problem. what was you selling in 1996 ?
TURTLE
udarrell
I was retired before 1996, but probably would have sold them as would
offer one of the three (Goodman/Janitrol/GMC) if they chose one of them
over the other makes, I installed. I just give them the straight scoop
on each make and let them decide.
The cabinets on the condensers were the weakest point.
Most brands had some questionable components and features that caused
some service problems, but the hack, so-called techs, kept me busy.
TURTLE
"Bob Pietrangelo" <bo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jPKdnbBYNdb...@comcast.com...
>
> My point is Goodman is the YUGO of the HVAC world. Call a spade a spade.
>
> --
> Bob Pietrangelo
> bo...@comcast.net
> b...@comfort-solution.biz
> www.comfort-solution.biz
> On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
> Preventive Maintenance Specialist
>
This is Turtle.
And Bob Pie tran gelo , i totally agree with you and I sell those Yugos because
of one thing. People come to me and say i want a cheap unit to put in this fixer
upper house and am going to sell it in a couple years. i say i have Goodman ,
Luxaire,
Frigidaire, or Weather King and would like to put a Rheem, high-end Arcoaire ,
or Carrier in there but if you want it. I have them all if you like.
I am a multi-grade dealer : I have a Yugo , then a Ford Sable, and then I have
Rolls Royce. I sell what they want and not what i want them to buy. If you sell
what customer wants you will always make it in this business. Look I think of
Goodman / Rheem / Trane / Carrier / York all as just manufactors that makes
different products in different qualities and I just sell what the public /
customer
wants. All of these brands are all the same in the hands of a idiot or a
professional hvac person for brand means nothing without a good installer.
So what i think when a person say a certain brand is bad or some piece of shit.
I think that person had a love affair that went bad or that brand cut into thier
sales to hurt them and the only way they can get back at that brand is bad mouth
it. Before I started posting to this news group , i don't remember ever hearing
anybody bad mouth Goodman in the business world for customer just buy / run /
buy a new ones and accept what comes from equipment no matter what the name it.
I then come to this news group to find there is suppose to be all this hatred
for goodman or others and get out in the real world and find no hatred at all. I
sure wish someone would tell the world that there is all this hatred for hvac
stuff because it is getting wearing the words out using them over and over.
Bob No disrespect at all here , but What You / i / Others here hate makes the
customer base very little difference and mostly don't give a rates ass as to
what is hated this month. I just think we hate too much and should be discussing
problem in the trade or talking shop for the rookies we have but we will have to
get them to come back because we run them off hating everything or any person
who don't know it all.
TURTLE
TURTLE
TURTLE
>> interest to provide them with the best equipment, installed by the
>> best trained crews possible?
>
>
> Take your well trained crews, and install 5 different brands.
> All properly sized. All brazed with a dry nitrogen purge.
> All vacuumed down to 400 microns. All leak tested.
> All balanced down to the 1/4 ounce charge.
> Now, tell me why the Goodman will fail before the others?
>
>
This is Turtle.
This alone statements defines the difference in hvac equipment as a whole. It
about sume up the equipment brand differences in all brands.
TURTLE
Don Ocean
What is amazing is that many of us have those so-called Yugos
that are around many years after a Carrier or Trane or whatever
have taken a dump! And just what is different on the inside anyway.?
Come on...Specify those massive differences! There just isn't that much
difference in any of this mass produced shit we are all selling.
>
>
>
TURTLE
"Don Ocean" <oc...@amerion.com> wrote in message
news:3lthq1F...@individual.net...
This is Turtle.
Now there you go tearing down Multi-Billions of dollars of advertising over the
years telling us that brand name does make a difference. If you keep this talk
up , we might be able to look at the differences without flaming other for the
brand brain washing they have received.
TURTLE
Bob Loblaw
> I was retired before 1996, but probably would have sold them as would
> offer one of the three (Goodman/Janitrol/GMC) if they chose one of
> them over the other makes, I installed. I just give them the straight
> scoop on each make and let them decide.
Darrell, I just had a look at your website. Very informative! Lots of info
for any tech, new or experienced.
I urge others to check out Darrell's website.
Respectfully, Bob