Oil burner - how should air/fuel mix be adjusted
jP
I have a 3 year old Dunkirk 3E1.00C oil burning furnace that has worked
perfectly until the other day when it smoked up my basement and tripped
the smoke alarms. Black soot made it out of the peephole flap and
coated parts of the exterior. Looking inside (after tunring it off)
revealed a lot of black soot. This never happened before.
But it was serviced two days prior to this incident as it kept shutting
off. The serviceman replaced a sensor and also cleaned the system --
but it had very little soot buildup and looked clean. He also adjusted
the air intake buy looking at the color of the flame as he varied the
amount of air feed withing the chamber.
I called him back as I suspected he may have altered something that
caused this. He replaced the spray nozzel (he said it was clogged and
that was the reason for the soot and smoke), and he adjusted the air
intake again -- by looking at the color of the flame.
Is there a better way to adjust the amount of air being feed into the
furnace? I want as clean combustion as possible to ensure that no more
soot builds up. Plus, I don't want to worry about carbon monoxide.
Instead of looking at the flame, is there a piece of equipment that
should have been used to analyze the efficiency of the flame and make
adjustments scientifically (rather than eyeballing the color?). I'm now
worried I have an improper air-fuel mix.
Thanks for any advice.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Is there a better way to adjust the amount of air being feed into the
>furnace? I want as clean combustion as possible to ensure that no more
>soot builds up. Plus, I don't want to worry about carbon monoxide.
>Instead of looking at the flame, is there a piece of equipment that
>should have been used to analyze the efficiency of the flame and make
>adjustments scientifically (rather than eyeballing the color?). I'm now
>worried I have an improper air-fuel mix.
>
>Thanks for any advice.
It's called a combustion analyser, also known as a Bacharach
Analyser
http://www.ffs-refiners.com/burnersetting.html
But I'll tell you, if he can't get any closer to 'right' by
eye than to cause soot blow-back in 2 days, he's pretty sad.
Now the entire system needs cleaning again. You've had an
incident of soot blow-back, which is the final symptom ( not the first
symptom ) of a major blockage somewhere inside, like maybe the flue,
the combustion area, etc.
>Black soot made it out of the peephole flap and
>coated parts of the exterior. Looking inside (after tunring it off)
>revealed a lot of black soot.
This is the Angel of Death knocking on your door. Make sure
the person who answers is properly qualified to deal with it.
Nothing less than a complete ' from scratch' cleaning,
check-out, and set-up is acceptable at this point.
It needs to be treated as if it hadn't been serviced in ten
years. Everything 'from the top'. Draft test, firebox inspection,
visual flue check & clean, pump pressure, gapping, etc, etc, all
before he even gets to combustion testing.
Do not F around with this. You came one step away from a
major explosion already ( that blow-back ).
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~
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Noon-Air
"jP" <jjp...@att.net> wrote in message news:3E22FCCB...@att.net...
> What is the proper way to adjust the air-fuel mix in an oil burner?
Call a *competent* licensed, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil
specialist) to correctly clean and service your furnace
> I have a 3 year old Dunkirk 3E1.00C oil burning furnace that has worked
> perfectly until the other day when it smoked up my basement and tripped
> the smoke alarms. Black soot made it out of the peephole flap and
> coated parts of the exterior. Looking inside (after tunring it off)
> revealed a lot of black soot. This never happened before.
have you had it serviced every year like you should??
You have some things happening that shouldn't be
> But it was serviced two days prior to this incident as it kept shutting
> off. The serviceman replaced a sensor and also cleaned the system --
> but it had very little soot buildup and looked clean. He also adjusted
> the air intake buy looking at the color of the flame as he varied the
> amount of air feed withing the chamber.
the "serviceman" wouldn't have been the lowest price would he?? no, of
course not
> I called him back as I suspected he may have altered something that
> caused this. He replaced the spray nozzel (he said it was clogged and
> that was the reason for the soot and smoke), and he adjusted the air
> intake again -- by looking at the color of the flame.
he didn't replace the nozzle when he serviced it the first time??
> Is there a better way to adjust the amount of air being feed into the
> furnace? I want as clean combustion as possible to ensure that no more
> soot builds up. Plus, I don't want to worry about carbon monoxide.
> Instead of looking at the flame, is there a piece of equipment that
> should have been used to analyze the efficiency of the flame and make
> adjustments scientifically (rather than eyeballing the color?). I'm now
> worried I have an improper air-fuel mix.
Yes there are combustion anylizers.... Yes you *probably* have a fuel/air
imbalance, and yes you will probably have to have the furnace cleaned
because of the soot.
> Thanks for any advice.
Best advice I can give is
Call a *competent* licensed, professionally trained HVAC technician (oil
specialist) to correctly clean and service your furnace. Now... as how to
find one?? call the wholesale house that carries the brand of equipment and
ask them who's the best technician they got...then go from there
--
Steve @ Noon-Air Heating and A/C
Noon...@comcast.net
Top quality service & Top quality equipment
To give real service you must add something
which cannot be bought or measured with money,
and that is sincerity and integrity.
- Donald A. Adams
Bubba
Shame on you. Glad you got 3 trouble free years out of it before it
quit. Think back now. If you would have had 2 preventative maintenance
tune-ups over those last 3 years, you would have spent maybe $125 to
$195 (more or less) each year. Now what do you have? If I walked in
and saw that mess, you'd be looking at $1,000 minimum. I'd probably
just sell you a new furnace. Absolutely NO reason whatsoever for what
you did to your furnace. Lucky your still alive. Find a GOOD oil
technician that has (and is able to use) a combustion efficiency
analyzer. THEN, make sure you have it "tuned-up" each and every winter
season. This should include a new oil nozzle, oil filter and
combustion efficiency check (along with all the other necessary
service) to your furnace.
Good Luck
Bubba
jP
> Shame on you. Glad you got 3 trouble free years out of it before it
> quit. Think back now. If you would have had 2 preventative maintenance
> tune-ups over those last 3 years, you would have spent maybe $125 to
> $195 (more or less) each year. Now what do you have? If I walked in
> and saw that mess, you'd be looking at $1,000 minimum. I'd probably
> just sell you a new furnace. Absolutely NO reason whatsoever for what
> you did to your furnace. Lucky your still alive. Find a GOOD oil
> technician that has (and is able to use) a combustion efficiency
> analyzer. THEN, make sure you have it "tuned-up" each and every winter
> season. This should include a new oil nozzle, oil filter and
> combustion efficiency check (along with all the other necessary
> service) to your furnace.
> Good Luck
> Bubba
First off, thanks for the information to all that replied.
Perhaps I should have been clearer though regarding the maintenance of
the furnace and what happened.
The furnace gets an annual service and cleaning each year. We moved
into this house three years ago and get it serviced each year. It has
never gone more than 12mos without a service.
There has never been any smoke or soot buildup until two days after the
last service call (when the technician cleaned it out and adjusted the
air-fuel mix). Only after that did the smoking and soot occur. I'm
not saying is was necessarily due to the technicians adjustments, but I
suspected a poor air-fuel calibration (seeing him do it by sight only
followed by the smoke two days later), and that is why I asked here for
some expert opinions and to learn something. He claimed that a clogged
nozzle was the cause of the smoke and soot (which he cleaned and
replaced) and not his adjustments of the air-fuel mix.
Now, I plan to call my oil heat company and ask about the combustion
analyzer and get the reason why it was not used. Should this be used
for ALL adjustments to air-fuel mixture? It is possible that I have a
poor technician and will need to switch.
CBHvac
"jP" <jjp...@att.net> wrote in message news:3E233206...@att.net...
Ok..look..its real simple..
Oil, is a dying art form...there are fewer and fewer guys that work on it
CORRECTLY...more and more hack it out.
The combustion tester I use is not all that complicated, but it does cost in
excess of $900, and it is something that takes time to learn to use, and
learn to use CORRECTLY and it takes time to USE IT, and it sounds like your
guy was a quickie in, and quickie out an quickie to the bank kinda fella...
Now..here is a meter that costs to use...costs to buy....and MUST BE USED
EVERY TIME AN ADJUSTMENT IS MADE.
Your guy sounds like hes either scared of using it, didnt know how to use
it, didnt want to use it, or cant afford one.
Now...something that rEALLy bothers me...
He said a clogged nozzle caused the soot....yet....he JUST FREAKING SERVICED
THE DAMN THING....he did not put a new nozzle in and check the electrodes
and clean them and adjust them and put a new fuel filter in then????!!!!!!!
See...right there is either a BS artist, or an untrained person.
We charge QUITE a bit to service an oil unit..its kind of like changing the
oil and tuning the engine in your car...you do do that? Ok..sure you do. If
your cars not running right, off to the tech it goes, or you work on
it...and if its computerized...say..OBDII, you need......a computer to read
it...:)
Consider the combustion tester that Paul talked about as the computer that
tells the tech what is wrong with your unit.
It does not give a code...it allows the tech to determine where he needs to
go as far as combustion air, and fuel ammounts..
If they dont have one, and dont know how to use it, do not allow them to
work on your unit again..
Just curious...what DID they charge you and what did the ticket say they
did?
I cant imagine a COMPLETE proper service for under $200...parts and labor..
Figure at least 2 hours labor...a new cad, a new filter cartridge at least,
a new nozzle, possibly new electrodes, pump pressure test, combustion test,
and a cleaning...maybe more depending on the unit...an ease of access..
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>Bubba wrote:
Ignore what Bubba wrote. He goes on the rag every evening
about this time.
>There has never been any smoke or soot buildup until two days after the
>last service call (when the technician cleaned it out and adjusted the
>air-fuel mix). Only after that did the smoking and soot occur.
Take a hint.
>some expert opinions and to learn something. He claimed that a clogged
>nozzle was the cause of the smoke and soot (which he cleaned and
>replaced) and not his adjustments of the air-fuel mix.
Bullshit.
Either the old nozzle was fine at the first check-up, or he
replaced it at the first check-up. Pick one. Either way, it's on
him. BTW, they are so cheap, I used to carry a dozen or more on the
truck, plus duplicates in the common ratings. We're talking chump
change here. You buy an 'assortment box' to start your truck stock
with ( pre-packaged ), and then multiples of what you use a lot. All
for less than the cost of a decent pipe wrench.
Let me guess - this guy is from the oil company, right ? So
typical. They don't hire 'good techs', they hire 'pretend techs' so
they can keep selling you oil.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<webm...@removethis.carolinabreezehvac.com> wrote:
>Consider the combustion tester that Paul talked about as the computer that
>tells the tech what is wrong with your unit.
Yeh, it's a good tool. But to leave a unit so bad as what's
described here, even 'by eye', that's pretty sad.
I'll never forget one ( Weil Mclain boiler ) that an ex-boss
installed once. I got a late night call-out on it a week later for
blow-back and safety trip.
It was sooted so bad ( after one week ! ), the flue pipe
looked like it had been factory-packed with soot - a more complete,
dense, packed-in-there-solid-all-the-way-up-the-pipe accumulation you
could not imagine.
It took hours to clean it out, and several large yard-size
garbage bags of soot came out.
When I finally got to where I could even think about firing it
up, the first thing I did was change the nozzle out from 1.5 to .75 (
before even lighting up ). Then I fired up - and the air was perfect!
Yes, I cut the fuel in * half *, left the air exactly alone,
and it was perfect ! I mean, sweet ! I don't think I tweaked that
venturi damper more than a 16th !
Needless to say, I got reamed the next day at the office for
making the boss ( who did the start-up ) look bad :-(
Checked back on it from time to time for a year ( the guys
wife always wore hot mini skirts when I came over, and she had the
legs for it ! ), clean like a baby's butt ( after the baby's butt
gets washed, that is ), and fuel bills ~ 1/2 of what was expected.
Bubba
wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:39:22 GMT, jP <jjp...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>Bubba wrote:
>
> Ignore what Bubba wrote. He goes on the rag every evening
>about this time.
Hey Paul. Blow me. Your a clueless ass and a washed up "wanna-be" and
always will be........but then, you already knew that, didnt you?
Bubba
Hvacmam
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>MIDOL, Bubba. Wash it down with Everclear and you'll feel better.
>
>Bubba wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:45:32 GMT, pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>> wrote:
>>
Nice to know that backwoods inbred Bubba still reads my every
post. Remind me to take him out of my killfile one of these years :-)
Or not :-)
Bubba
peas in a pod.
Bubba
On 14 Jan 2003 04:08:59 GMT, Hvacmam <vickin...@usa.net> wrote:
Bubba
wrote:
>On 14 Jan 2003 04:08:59 GMT, Hvacmam <vickin...@usa.net> wrote:
>
>>MIDOL, Bubba. Wash it down with Everclear and you'll feel better.
>>
>>Bubba wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:45:32 GMT, pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
> Nice to know that backwoods inbred Bubba still reads my every
>post. Remind me to take him out of my killfile one of these years :-)
>
> Or not :-)
>
>
>Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~
Paul, I have no one in my kill file. Never have. A simpler way is to
just not read it but then you probably cant figure that out. Dont pat
yourself on the back so hard. Actually when I see "pjm" I ignore the
post. I only follow what Ive commented on or what I see of interest.
Just like this one. Im sure it will continue on for a long time with
your help.
Only you would know about inbreeding. You seem to be the only
wifeless, old bald headed one sleeping with your cats. God only knows
what you actually do in there. When you've slept with more felines in
your life than you have women, I would call that a problem.
Have you noticed how I have not commented to even one of your insane,
nasty, or foul languaged remarks you constantly post? Then, out of the
blue you seem to want to start this shit all over again with your
>>Ignore what Bubba wrote. He goes on the rag every evening
about this time.<<
Once again, it is YOU who wants to turn this newsgroup into a pile of
wasted bandwidth.
Let me make one simple suggestion to you. Put me IN or back in your
kill file and dont take me out........EVER again. You seem to have a
real problem accomplishing that little task. Its really not that hard
to do. Everyone here will thank you for it.
Bubba (thinking............will Paul listen or will Paul continue? I
think Im going to have tired typing fingers again )
ftwhd
wrote:
>Now how did I figure Vicki was going to jump in here first? Like 2
>peas in a pod.
>Bubba
>
I dont know why you dont just killfile them, like you once said it
keeps them quiet, the way it should be.
Mike
ftwhd
wrote:
snip
>Only you would know about inbreeding. You seem to be the only
>wifeless, old bald headed one sleeping with your cats. God only knows
>what you actually do in there.
snip
My middle daughter lives in N.C. and the other night I was talking to
her on the phone. She was telling me about the people there and how
bad the inbreeding is. She told me she mentioned it to a local native
and the reply was that they can't help what their family does. She
was also a little amazed at how rude the general population is down
that way. She thought northerners were bad until she went down to
tobacco road and found out how backward they really are. I found her
prespective interesting and she cant wait till spring and she comes
back here to finish her nursing degree.
Mike
Bubba
wrote:
Very true, but like I said, I havent kill filed anyone.
I wont string this one out though. I'll try to keep a low profile.
........unless my momma gets drug into it........ :-)
Bubba
Hvacmam
I realize this was an attempt at a backhanded awipe at Paul -- but
he's not from N.C. originally. Hell, IIRC, one of his parents wasn't
even born in the U.S.
Spring, huh? Is she waiting for the hard frost to lift?
Hvacmam
Lemme see...you're assuming that a young single guy is not out
there dating? I know that a lot of you old, bored, married guys are
envious of that...especially when a LOT of men pretend that they like
cats, just to hook up with women.
And I heard more than one rumor in years past that I HAD to be a
lesbo just because I wasn't married -- never started by anyone who KNEW
me more than in passing, though...and laughed off hilariously by those
who did.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
It's so nice to have kill files for these assholes.
I can only say that if his daughter would stop working for
that call-out poontang service 'Hoes R Us', she wouldn't find herself
in those situations. And his grandkids wouldn't be so funny looking
and dark skinned. Not that the lady at the welfare office minds,
she's used to it....
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~
Bubba
snip
>
> Lemme see...you're assuming that a young single guy is not out
>there dating? I know that a lot of you old, bored, married guys are
>envious of that...especially when a LOT of men pretend that they like
>cats, just to hook up with women.
>
> And I heard more than one rumor in years past that I HAD to be a
>lesbo just because I wasn't married -- never started by anyone who KNEW
>me more than in passing, though...and laughed off hilariously by those
>who did.
>
>
I have no idea where you came up with the conclusion of your first
sentence and of course Im sure you have some sort of point to your
ramblings but.................
I could really care less. Have a nice life.
Bubba