Janitrol Furnace Problem
Mel Damron
Texas INstrument PArt No. B18099-06,B18099-10
Hot Surface Ignition Module
A. A Remote Flame Sensing
B. Pre purge timing, 17 seconds.
C. Ignitor warm up time, 15 seconds.
D. Valve "ON" time.
E. Tries for ignition, 4 tries.
F. Between tries, 25 seconds.
G. Retries for ignition, 3 tries.
H. Between retries, 35 seconds.
NORMAL SEQUENCE OF OPERATION
1. Thermostat calls for heat
2. Pre purge cycle begins.
3. Ignitor turns "ON".
4. After ignitor warm up, Main Valve opens.
5. Burner Ignition occurs.
6. Therostat is satisfied, system shuts down.
CONCLUSION
The above sequence of events indicate that the ignition
module is functioning properly. Any deviation from the
above function may indicate that the ignition module is
faulty.
REPLACE THE IGNITION MODULE "IF"
1. If the ignitor does not turn "ON" following the pre purge
cycle.
2. If main valve light does not turn "ON" after ignitor warm
up cycle.
3. Main valve does not stay "ON" after proved (tested)
sensor/Ignitor.
The above procedures assumes that the flame sensor as been
tested and is operable and that system voltage is present.
Using a mirco amp meter flame sense current should be a
minimum of 0.5, if flame sense current falls below this,
replace sensor .
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
Sonofdawra wrote:
>
> >Check the tubing going from the inducer to the vacuum switch. disconnect it
> >and
> >see if there is any water in it if so the tubing might need to be shortened
> >to
> >take out the excess that traps the water in it.
>
> That's not the problem. If the vent pressure switch wasn't making, then the
> module would never get 24 volts and the ignitor would never get red.
>
> Sounds like the original poster needs to have a professional come check it out.
> Either a bad module or a bad gas valve. Not something for a homeowner to be
> messing with.
johna...@mindspring.com
I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John Abbott
johna...@mindspring.com
Drjhvac
Check the tubing going from the inducer to the vacuum switch. disconnect it and
Sonofdawra
>and
>see if there is any water in it if so the tubing might need to be shortened
>to
>take out the excess that traps the water in it.
That's not the problem. If the vent pressure switch wasn't making, then the
John Mills
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
> activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
> period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
> the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
> would be greatly appreciated.
Put a volt meter on the gas valve. Is it getting 24v? I'm not sure
of the sequence of operation on those units but some will appear to
try and not let the gas valve open if a pressure switch or a rollout
is open. If this is a GMP model of early 90s vintage, check for an
open rollout with manual pushbutton reset. If one is tripped, suspect
a defective heat exchanger.
http://www.geocities.com/~johnmills/temp/gmp.html
--
HVAC Advice, Pictures, Links
http://www.geocities.com/~johnmills
http://www.appelheat.com
TURTLE
where are you getting these post to reply to . i can't find them at all.
TURTLE
Mel Damron wrote in message <36C78EB0...@Pacbell.net>...
>What model Janitrol furance is this?
>
>I would suspect that you need to clean the flame sense rod,
>or replace it...
>
>Try clenaing the rod if this helps, your in luck if it
>doesn't replace it.
>
>Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
>
>Drjhvac wrote:
>>
>> >I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
>> >activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
>> >period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
>> >the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
>> >would be greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >John Abbott
>> >johna...@mindspring.com
TURTLE
Bob
No gas pressure in piping due to meter shut off, frozen regulator,
relief valve on reg frozen shut, or some such cause not allowing gas
into the residence, appliance valve shut off.
Faulty gas valve.
Faulty module.
Gas valve in shut off position.
Faulty wiring from module to gas valve, valve not getting 24 volts.
Call in a pro.
Respectfully, Bob
johna...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> Hello All,
Matthew G. Platt
the gas valve to see if the voltage is there. if you have voltage then the
gas valve is bad. call a HVAC dealer and have them check it over for you.
why they are there get a quote on a new American Standard furnace and
A-coil.
chaz
>Hello All,
>
>I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
>activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
>period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
>the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Abbott
>johna...@mindspring.com
>
Try unpluging the wire harness where it goes into the blower
compartment and plug it back in to reseat it. I've had 2 of these
problems this year and this worked on both of them. For how long I
don't know, but I didn't have the terminals to rewire it on the truck.
Sonofdawra
>believe your flame sense rod is dirty or needs replaced.
>The smallest of fracture in the porceclin will cause this
>problem...
>
>Mel Damron
>
>johna...@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
>> activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
>> period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
>> the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John Abbott
>> johna...@mindspring.com
>
>> the burners
If there is never flame, then how can the flame detection system be blamed?
TReeves717
discharge vent with a ball bat.Janitrols live forever..................
Rodg36
Hell they are the easiest to Service and cost less to install and Service Than
Say your american Standard
which is a generic Trane and as far as performance I Installed A Janitrol Duel
Fuel system in My Personal House and have not touched it other than routine
maintnence since I installed it ! Janitrol May not be the top brand around
But I would hardly say It's Junk, I have Serviced Far worse Than Janitrols!
Just Thought I would Add that 2cents worth.
kmc...@aol.com
johna...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have a Janitrol natural gas furnace with a problem: When it is
> activated by the thermostat, the vent fan comes on and after a short
> period the ignitor plug glows. The gas, however is never delivered to
> the burners. After a few attempts the system shuts down. Any help
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Abbott
> johna...@mindspring.com
>
yes i have had such with this equipment twice the first time it was spider
webs in the pilot tube from the gas valve and the second time it was the gas
control board ps if you changed the control board check that the polarity is
correct
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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HVACCHURCH
Don Ocean
Just as do most other furnace makers. Now you suggest the gas valve may be
bad, and that is not manufactured by Janitrol. The poor man blesses an
inexpensive furnace and the rich man profits by the fact, that when he buys
the cadillac of furnaces... There are are cheap alternatives that keep the
price of that cadillac competitive. I just replaced 2 of the cadillac brands
with two new Janitrols(tried to sell-em cadillacs). Both at same location had
bad exchangers and did not want to deal with original dealer. Why not admit
it? There just isn't as much profit in a Janitrol!
Don Ocean
"Matthew G. Platt" wrote:
>
> sorry about your luck. janitrol equipment is junk. check the ground, meter
> the gas valve to see if the voltage is there. if you have voltage then the
> gas valve is bad. call a HVAC dealer and have them check it over for you.
> why they are there get a quote on a new American Standard furnace and
> A-coil.
>
hvac boy
but no flame. There first has to be a flame to sense one. The problem is
either:
Gas Valve , Flame Roll out which made the roll out switch open, , the
Intergrated hsi module or a wire broke or came loose.
Just folow your wire from the module ( board) take a volage reading and
see if you got 24 volts all the way to the gas valve. if you don't there
is your problem, if the gas valve has 24 volts than it is the gas valve.
Don't forget the voltae will only be present durring the time after the
hsi is fully heated ( aprox. 17 seconds it takes to heat up before it
will turn power on to the gas valve
I agree there are furnaces worse than janitrol and the are easy to
work on
hvacboy
MAZEROC
Bob
Respectfully, Bob
Kenellin
see if your getting 24 volts to the valve after the ignitor glows, you should
here a click. if no click check all rollout switches if 1 is tripped you need
a heat exchanger!!!!!
Bob
Kenellin wrote:
after the ignitor glows, you should
> here a click. if no click check all rollout switches if 1 is tripped you need
> a heat exchanger!!!!!
HUH??? If the ignitor glows, how could there be a tripped rollout?
Also, who says if the rollout is tripped then you need a new heat
exchanger??
Respectfully, Bob
AllTemp
You mean if my control module is malfunctioning and fails...
However spewing gas with delayed ignition and I have flames
roll out and these roll out switches detect and do their job
I have to replace my heat-exchanger too... Why? Why not
just correct the module failure and test the system and get
on with things....
I can't believe that in 22 responses I'm now reading this...
:) Balls in your court...
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
Kenellin wrote:
>
> i can't believe out of 21 responses only 1 was probably your problem check to
> see if your getting 24 volts to the valve after the ignitor glows, you should
AllTemp
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
Rodg36 wrote:
>
> Yep!! Rollout switches are to prevent the system from trying to ignite again
> !!,as for a tripped switch meaning a bad heatexchanger??Boy! Thats one way to
> sell!! But how do you sleep??
John Mills
> Also, who says if the rollout is tripped then you need a new heat
> exchanger??
Janitrol had a big problem with heat exchangers in the first few years
of GMP production. A crimp ring holding the heat exchanger cells
together
would fall out allowing the cell to open up. The draft inducer would
then
suck in air through the opening around where the ring was and not
through the burner opening. Therefore the flames wouldn't be sucked into
the heat exchanger and trip rollouts. I didn't say nor did I read
anywhere
that said if a rollout is open, change the heat exchanger. But you
damn well better check it. We've found probably a dozen now that a
tripped
rollout pointed us to an open cell. And our guys automatically look
under
the heat exchanger when they get near a GMP for any reason.
I have seen some boards that will allow ignitors on with open safties.
They
don't allow the gas valve to open. I don't recall if Janitrol's is like
that but it is a very primitive board.
Rodg36
san...@my-dejanews.com
Burnham but I dont know anything about them. Ive heard bad things about
Jaritrol but not this one. Any feedback?
DavidPryde
The models have modules that have a sequence to bring in the
purge fan and ignitor and if a roll out is tripped will shut
down the system after retries...
As to the boards being primative you'll have to call United
Technologies a subsidiary of Carrier they make the boards!
The heat exchanger problem was resolve in 1993, Janitrol
carries a 20 year heat exchanger warranty and lifetime on
any 90% or better furnaces...
As of today however Goodmans offers warranty is 10 Years
Parts and Labor and lifetime heat exchanger probably the
best in the industry.
If you look at the inside of a Goodman you'll soon learn why
the have deveolped such a dependable reputation are #2 in
sales and working for #1 in 1999. Name brand gas valves and
blower motors, control boards( United Technologies) and the
quality in the Aluminized Heat Exchanger!
It's difficult to wade through all the scuttle butt given
this manufacture from people that shout this crap! But the
facts speak for themselves, In overall sales volume Goodman
is No #2 and in warranty claims #1, according to the
manufactures AMI Annual Reports!
Check out what Goodman Manufacturing is all about at:
Also be sure and look at the white papers they publish on
the web on all their equipment....
But real quick back to the original post most certainly if
you find a roll out tripped check things out. But a tripped
roll out switch doesn't mean replace the heat exchanger. It
can be pointing to other difficulties.
And a failed heat exchanger in any brand doesn't mean it's a
piece of crap. Installation , the environment plays a big
roll in the life of any equipment. I can remember finding
a a relatively new installed furnace with rust flowing from
it's every orifice... The installer had used a 4-6 reducer
and used 6 inch single wall KD through the attic straight up
about 10 feet... So much condensation formed and accumulated
every time the furnace ran and flowed straight into the
furnace, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did...
There aren't any manufactures out there I can knock... I
have my preferences but can't knock em...
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
Marc L O'Brien
AllTemp
yu see the light at the end of the tunnel...
Your right these primative control boards on these bashed
crap furance have a self diagnostic feature...
Wonder what the thing is saying?
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
Aokhvac wrote:
>
> Janitrol has gotten a lot better and if you have not installed one lately and
> as rodger said "properly installed" you may be surprised. I have read several
> post on this subject and have not heard the obvious question yet. How many
> times is the little led light blinking or should I say ;)
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/mlink/index.html
Aokhvac
Aokhvac
Rodg36
problems at all with it! A proper Installation is the key to a trouble free
system!! Now I know no system will be trouble free But Properly installed
sytems sure have happy homeowners! Also make for happy confident customers.
Marc L O'Brien
>Marc L O'Brien <Mlob...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>ftwhd wrote:
>
>>> "David Pryde" <pr...@iafrica.com> wrote:
>
>That was Mel?
No, that wasn't Mel. Jeez, he's in Canada, that test post was
from Africa. Last I heard, they were somewhat distant from each
other :-) Of course, the WTO may have issued a change order on
this...
So how does Mel explain this ?????
See who signed this message I'm replying to.
DavidPryde wrote:
> Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
>
AllTemp
you've installed over 100 Janitrol furnaces and 60% have
been failures. There's something terribly wrong with this
picture... Seriously wrong... If you want to advertise
Amercian Standard equipment you don't have to bash another
manufactures equipment in doing so... Better if you've had
this kind of luck installing Goodman equipment you're
installing someone else's now at that rate your affecting my
return on my Goodman stocks, lol!
In all the many years of installing Goodman equipment I have
never been seen these sort of statistics... I will stand
on the fact that most failures are installation related...
Just my two cents worth and what i keep hearing........
By the way Goodman has just introduced 10 years parts &
labor on all their equipment...
http:www//goodmanmfg.com
Goodman is good equipment I can't knock it!
Mel Damron, AllTemp Heating & Cooling
"Matthew G. Platt" wrote:
>
> Sorry about your luck. It's only a matter of time. You will be useing that great
> warranty you got with the unit. I hope it never bracks down. My Janitrol wholesale
> dealer wants to know why I haven't been buying equipment, I tell them because I
> buy parts all the time. I have installed over 100 Janitrol furnaces. I haven't had
> to go back on all of them, only about 60%. American Standard is the parent company
> of Trane. Its hard to stop A American Standard. I like to keep an open mind and
> don't like to burn bridges. With that in mind I did install a new Janitrol 90+
> furnace in a work shop last week only to find that the 3in limit should have been
> a 7in. I don't know about your way of doing things, but over here time is money.
Matthew G. Platt
Rodg36
should go to these homes and inspect THE INSTALLATION, IN ALL THE YEARS I'VE
BEEN IN THE FIELD HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A PECENTAGE OF CALLBACKS !, And bashing
the manufacturer may make him feel better about the percentages, but he never
did specify if they were all factory related!, Improper Installation can cause
parts to go Bad so I would Check myself before Bashing another . Just 2 more
cents
ftwhd
>Sorry about your luck. It's only a matter of time. You will be useing that great
>warranty you got with the unit. I hope it never bracks down. My Janitrol wholesale
>dealer wants to know why I haven't been buying equipment, I tell them because I
>buy parts all the time. I have installed over 100 Janitrol furnaces. I haven't had
>to go back on all of them, only about 60%. American Standard is the parent company
>of Trane. Its hard to stop A American Standard. I like to keep an open mind and
>don't like to burn bridges. With that in mind I did install a new Janitrol 90+
>furnace in a work shop last week only to find that the 3in limit should have been
>a 7in. I don't know about your way of doing things, but over here time is money.
With 6 out of 10 furnace installed failing for whatever reason it
sounds to me like its an installation problem rather than the
equipment. Get some better help and read the installation
instructions.
Reminds me of a sign at the supply house,
These instructions may or may not apply to what you are doing.
If you're doing a proper installation, they apply.
Regards, Mike
UA local 370