Checking a Condenser Fan Motor Amp draw.
TURTLE
This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
I have a Amana 13 or 14 seer Heat Pump condenser Model # RHE-48-C2A / Cond. Unit
Part # 1248206C / Serial # 0405009672 / Hooked up to a AR-60-1[ 5 ton ] air
handler. The Condenser Motor is a 1/3 H.P. / 825 R.P.M. / Has capasitor run from
a dual 50/12.5 uf 370 volt. Everything was running fine and dandy but then
yesterday a Copper Head snake crowles into the blower fan blades and hanges the
blade up. Then tripped the P.S.H. on the high side. Ther customer call us and we
show up and the snake was still alive and hung up in between the motor and the
blade and mad as hell. We pulled the top screen on it and I got a 18 in pipe
wrench to hold down his head till i could get a grip on his head to keep him
from bitting one of us and unwound him out of the blades. I pulled out my pocket
knife and cut his head off and then turn him loose. I hated to kill him but they
will bite you when you try to throw them.
I thought everything was fine here and got me a quick service call but after
about 5 minutes of run time the motor seemed very hot to the touch. i check the
amp draw on each leg and here is where the problem started. The motor seemed hot
so I check the amp draw on the common , start, and run -- so i got this Common
2.08 amps , Start 1.53 amps , Run 1.53 amps. The FLA on the motor was 2.4 amps ,
check capsitor and was 12.4 uf , Voltage to unit 239 volts , everything clean
and new, and blade was turning good. I check the motor wiring diagram and it has
a start winding and a run winding like all other motor have.
Here is the wild thing here I would like explained to me. The 1.53 amps on the
Start winding for this does not compute. The old school says the amp draw of the
start + the Amp draw of the Run will = the common amp draw. 1.53 amp + 1.53 amps
= 2.08 amps. This does not compute in Coonass math but maybe in City Slicker
Math it may look good.
Oner last thing : The Motor will make a very high pitch squeel sound every
minute or so but very very lite sound. Sounds like a bearing with out oil.
What gives here :
Everything Good.
Bad Motor.
Bad Something or the Other.
Just a hot running motor.
Clue me in on this thing.
I'm changing the motor out tomorrow anyway under warrenty but I'm like all the
fellow that tells Clint Eastwood " I Gottes to Known " .
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
>
>I have a Amana 13 or 14 seer Heat Pump condenser Model # RHE-48-C2A / Cond. Unit
>Part # 1248206C / Serial # 0405009672 / Hooked up to a AR-60-1[ 5 ton ] air
>handler. The Condenser Motor is a 1/3 H.P. / 825 R.P.M. / Has capasitor run from
>a dual 50/12.5 uf 370 volt. Everything was running fine and dandy but then
>yesterday a Copper Head snake crowles into the blower fan blades and hanges the
>blade up. Then tripped the P.S.H. on the high side. Ther customer call us and we
>show up and the snake was still alive and hung up in between the motor and the
>blade and mad as hell. We pulled the top screen on it and I got a 18 in pipe
>wrench to hold down his head till i could get a grip on his head to keep him
>from bitting one of us and unwound him out of the blades. I pulled out my pocket
>knife and cut his head off and then turn him loose. I hated to kill him but they
>will bite you when you try to throw them.
Well, you screwed up already.
The correct service procedure in this case is to yell out to
the homeowner "Mr, there's a fucking snake in your air conditioner !
I'll send you my dry cleaning bill ! " as you peel out down the
driveway.
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
go fish
the motor probably cooked the windings a little bit when it tried starting up
with the snake in it. maybe the motor was exceptionally "tight" from the
factory, and the snake pushed it over the limit.
@starband.net ~KJPRO~
Warranty??
This is not supposed to be covered by warranty!
~kjpro~
BTW, screw that snake, kill them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (got it) :-)
Bubba
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
I was going to voice myself too but it looks like KJPRO beat me to it.
Warranty? Why Warranty? Its the snakes fault so bill the snake or the
customer.........not the manufacturer.
Oh well, Im sure we've all done it.
Bubba (me? Oh heck no.......never) :-)
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>yesterday a Copper Head snake crowles into the blower fan blades and hanges the
>Oner last thing : The Motor will make a very high pitch squeel sound every
>minute or so but very very lite sound. Sounds like a bearing with out oil.
Needs some snake oil
@starband.net ~KJPRO~
news:prf0p0tukger0l93i...@4ax.com...
Can't bill the snake,
he's dead and didn't have enough life insurance to cover the property
damage! :-)
~kjpro~
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
>I thought everything was fine here and got me a quick service call but after
>about 5 minutes of run time the motor seemed very hot to the touch. i check the
>amp draw on each leg and here is where the problem started. The motor seemed hot
>so I check the amp draw on the common , start, and run -- so i got this Common
>2.08 amps , Start 1.53 amps , Run 1.53 amps. The FLA on the motor was 2.4 amps ,
>check capsitor and was 12.4 uf , Voltage to unit 239 volts , everything clean
>and new, and blade was turning good. I check the motor wiring diagram and it has
>a start winding and a run winding like all other motor have.
>
>Here is the wild thing here I would like explained to me. The 1.53 amps on the
>Start winding for this does not compute. The old school says the amp draw of the
>start + the Amp draw of the Run will = the common amp draw. 1.53 amp + 1.53 amps
>= 2.08 amps. This does not compute in Coonass math but maybe in City Slicker
>Math it may look good.
Oh - BTW - the start winding is partially shorted (
turn-to-turn ), undoubtedly from trying to start with that snake
wrapped around it. That's your high amps, and thus heat.
TURTLE
"go fish" <iove...@aol.comp.mil> wrote in message
news:20041108221522...@mb-m17.aol.com...
This is Turtle
Hey , do you know anything about this start winding drawing too many amps or it
drawing too much is just a sign of a defect ? It don't really matter but that
over amping start winding is just got me to Thunking.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:66c0p0ltp43q2db2a...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
I can't run from Snake calls for I get about 2 or 3 a year and most of them are
fan motors and some compressor burning for no fan running. Also Turtle eat
snakes if they can catch them.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"~KJPRO~" <KJPRO @ STARBAND.NET> wrote in message
news:rJWjd.1403$Vl5...@fe25.usenetserver.com...
This is Turtle.
Well the customer is a long term customer and never say a word about price and
always gets my company to do their work and all their kind folks work and I was
just letting it slide here on the warranty. Also he has 3 units for the house
and I've changed out all of them in the last 3 years.
Yea, I will just kill them snakes for they will be back to get in them if you
don't take them out. The only on I will not kill is a King Snake. The King Snake
eats other snakes and usely will not bite a human.
TURTLE
geomanjr
hardly noticeable will probably cause some problems (motor bearings)news:2vb1q4F...@uni-berlin.de...
Bubba
<jerry_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Heh heh uhhhhhhh.
>
>Dumb fuck.
>
>Jerry
Jerry,
I think your last two lines (Dumb fuck Jerry) pretty much sum it.
Bubba
@starband.net ~KJPRO~
Shit, I got ol 'dumb fuck Jerry' in my kill file.
Like they say:
Oh well, life goes on to find another Idiot, or is that DF?! :-)
~kjpro~
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I was wondering about that myself as to say that about hisself. That's kind of
strange.
TURTLE
Stormin Mormon
they make them with a kind of "average" wing it and guess. If a couple of
the windings cook off, and they short out, it usually doesn't do much
damage.
But if it shorts out to bypass a LOT of the coils, then the amperage goes
up. Cause there are fewer coils in the winding.
It's been about 20 years ago. So..... but my guess is your motor over heated
(easy guess) and the over amp is a couple windings shorted.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2vb1q4F...@uni-berlin.de...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2vb1q5F...@uni-berlin.de...
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:66c0p0ltp43q2db2a...@4ax.com...
>
TURTLE
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qz9kd.375978$bp1.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Mostly in NY we get small garter snakes. Which do no damage.
>
> --
>
> Christopher A. Young
This is Turtle
These are 3 to 6 foot --- 2 to 4 pound snake we deal with.
TURTLE
Jake
> Oh - BTW - the start winding is partially shorted (
> turn-to-turn ), undoubtedly from trying to start with that snake
> wrapped around it. That's your high amps, and thus heat.
>
Yep...
And before long it won't start at all.... just a satisfying HUUUUMMMMMMM!
Jake
TURTLE
"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:8ockd.69125$HA.8061@attbi_s01...
This is Turtle.
Hey Jake your a Sparky. Ready the story above here but i will fill in here.
I have a Condenser fan motor on a condenser unit mounted up right and blowing
upward. The Motor has 3 wires to it --- Common, Start / Run Capsitor feed
circuit, and a Run circuit. The Motor is 220 volt type, 825 R.P.M. , 12.5 uf 370
capsitor, 1/3 H.P. , The Motor has stop twice and tripped the high side freon
PSH , Turns clockwise non-reversiable, Motor is wired up to wiring diagram,
Motor runs hotter than normal all the time, Runs at normal speed, and the motor
sometimes makes a bird like noise as cherping sound. Check the capasitoir with
Capsitoir checker and was 12.4 uf 370 volts.
Now Here is the problem. The motor is running and I get these amp reading from
each leg of the motor wires. Common 2.08 amps, Run wire circuit 1.54 amps , and
the Start / Capsitor wire circuit 1.54 amps. This does not compute at all. Now I
replaced the motor and blade with a OEM motor and blade. Well it has the same
story and same amp reading & everything. It did not change a thing.
What is your take on this ? It's just too crazy for me.
TURTLE
Tekkie
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:45:32 -0600, "TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net>
> wrote:
>
> >This is Turtle.
> >
> >This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
> >
> >I have a Amana 13 or 14 seer Heat Pump condenser Model # RHE-48-C2A / Cond. Unit
> >Part # 1248206C / Serial # 0405009672 / Hooked up to a AR-60-1[ 5 ton ] air
> >handler. The Condenser Motor is a 1/3 H.P. / 825 R.P.M. / Has capasitor run from
> >a dual 50/12.5 uf 370 volt. Everything was running fine and dandy but then
> >yesterday a Copper Head snake crowles into the blower fan blades and hanges the
> >blade up. Then tripped the P.S.H. on the high side. Ther customer call us and we
> >show up and the snake was still alive and hung up in between the motor and the
> >blade and mad as hell. We pulled the top screen on it and I got a 18 in pipe
> >wrench to hold down his head till i could get a grip on his head to keep him
> >from bitting one of us and unwound him out of the blades. I pulled out my pocket
> >knife and cut his head off and then turn him loose. I hated to kill him but they
> >will bite you when you try to throw them.
>
> Well, you screwed up already.
>
> The correct service procedure in this case is to yell out to
> the homeowner "Mr, there's a fucking snake in your air conditioner !
> I'll send you my dry cleaning bill ! " as you peel out down the
> driveway.
>
>
I always thought the Turtle was a snake charmer...
--
Tekkie
Tekkie
> Can't bill the snake,
> he's dead and didn't have enough life insurance to cover the property
> damage! :-)
>
>
He'd slither out of paying anyway. His check number is under 1000.
--
Tekkie
Jake
T...
I'd guess you changed the cap too? Does it still make the chirp with the new
motor? Have you got an handheld Tach for RPM.... check to be certain it's
running at rated.
It looks like it's not coming out of start from here, so I suspect a RPM
problem (maybe related to airflow restrictions).
Is the line voltage OK forward of the contactor (maybe you've got a burned
one there).
That's all I can think of after 3 beers but I'll probably have a better idea
in the morning (-;.
Jake
Jake
Noon-Air
Cause it doesn't know the words
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Did you replace the capacitor too ?
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
No I did not change the Cap for it read 12.4 uf and it was a 12.5 uf capasitor.
The start winding stays enguaged all the time on this type motor.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ii03p0hshnk0tusem...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
Can a capasitor be bad with a reading of 12.4 uf with a meter and it is a 12.5
uf capasitor ? The Cap tester said it was good but well have you ever heard of a
good reading cap. being bad ?
I'm beginning to question my amp meter here or doing something wrong here.
TURTLE
PrecisionMachinisT
Get an ohms reading from both coils, compare them to the published specs or
at least to readings from a comparable psc motor.
Be careful if testing it ungrounded and under power, a good possibility
there it is also leaking.
Smell it to see if it reeks of the magic smoke--your replacing it
anyways......really no need to spend a whole lotta time onnit anyways.
--
SVL
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Yep. not common, but possible. Under the circumstances, I
would try it, just to be sure. Also check the wiring - could be
mis-wired.
Most generally, any time I changed a motor, it got new
capacitors, if for no other reason than the possibility that the dying
motor stressed the cap and it may fail prematurely. Caps are cheap,
call-backs suck.
>
>I'm beginning to question my amp meter here or doing something wrong here.
>
>TURTLE
>
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
go fish
just goes to show, we all had different teachers. it was drilled into my head
you change the cap every time you change the motor, no exceptions. and usually
I'll up the 370 cap to 440 volt
Jake
> This is Turtle.
>
> No I did not change the Cap for it read 12.4 uf and it was a 12.5 uf
capasitor.
>
> The start winding stays enguaged all the time on this type motor.
>
> TURTLE
>
>
T----,
By saying 'coming out of start' I meant being accelerated to full rated RPM.
I'd change the cap first and see what happens. Caps can act a lot
differently under static measurement with a meter and under load. It is rare
but it does happen.
If a new cap doesn't help, and your wiring and supply voltages are good with
a new motor, then you've gotta look at mechanical load that's not allowing
that thing to turn at speed.
I'd definitely get yourself a true RMS clamp meter, too, if you haven't
already. They're not very expensive anymore....
Jake
Noon-Air
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>Can a capasitor be bad with a reading of 12.4 uf with a meter and it is a
>>12.5
>>uf capasitor ? The Cap tester said it was good but well have you ever
>>heard of a
>>good reading cap. being bad ?
>
> Yep. not common, but possible. Under the circumstances, I
> would try it, just to be sure. Also check the wiring - could be
> mis-wired.
>
> Most generally, any time I changed a motor, it got new
> capacitors, if for no other reason than the possibility that the dying
> motor stressed the cap and it may fail prematurely. Caps are cheap,
> call-backs suck.
I just had a brain fart.... prolly worth looking into.... This *is* a heat
pump....
I gotta wonder if there might be a problem with the defrost board too.
Defrost board is what controls the fan.
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
The unit is only about 1 month old and everything fine and dandy till the snake
hung it up.
I do change the capsitor on any motor change but 1 month old and it read good
with a Cap. Meter and I don't Know. I'll change the Cap. and see.
You know this motor is acting like it is just too small of horse power for the
job. Something is just telling me this but it is a Factory OEM motor on it.
TURTLE
TURTLE
"Noon-Air" <Noon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:262dnQ9YR5d...@comcast.com...
This is Turtle.
Hummmmmm , It could have a bad set of points in the board that is sending a on
and off voltage to the motor and make it read high amps or different amps.
I'll change the board too.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I only use a EIOU something Clamp amp meter always.
I'll ange that Cap to see.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Waste of time and money. That's not the problem.
Jake
> Waste of time and money. That's not the problem.
>
>
T----,
Again, I agree with this. If the motor has voltage as rated, then this is
not the problem.
I tend to look at these things from the original problem on:
1) It was running OK until a snake got in there.
2) The motor was damaged, most likely. Controls... eh, maybe.... but you've
tested and said you're getting correct V at all the right places?
3) The cap may now be weak from heat, too.
4) You said you changed the blade, so you don't have a balancing problem
there. Since it's an upright shaft. how's it mounted? Check to seek if the
blade hub is level (as bent mounts will throw off balance). Are you sure you
replaced with a blade the same pitch, etc? Blade/shroud clearances to spec?
And a simple but sometimes overlooked one.... rotation correct?
Just a few ideas....
Jake
Don Young
run winding amperes and start (or capacitor) winding amperes do not total to
the common lead amperes because they are not in the same phase. Similar to
how two 120 volt legs on three phase add to 208 instead of 240.
Don Youngnews:2vf9s8F...@uni-berlin.de...
TURTLE
"Don Young" <No...@NoneSuch.com> wrote in message
news:10p5oci...@corp.supernews.com...
>I have not seen a response to your question about the ampere readings. The
> run winding amperes and start (or capacitor) winding amperes do not total to
> the common lead amperes because they are not in the same phase. Similar to
> how two 120 volt legs on three phase add to 208 instead of 240.
> Don Young
This is Turtle
1.53 amps on the Start + the 1.53 amps on the run does not = the 2.08 amps on
the common.
This is the big I Don't see it thing here.
TURTLE
PrecisionMachinisT
"TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2vgcvfF...@uni-berlin.de...
Difference in phase angle and your dealing with a "reactive" load.....
The true total power consumption can't be determined without knowing the
phase lag between the two windings and then applying some mathematic
formulas--not something I have a lotta knowledge or experience with.....just
that I kinda understand the principles involved here is all.
--
SVL
Bertie the Bunyip
news:2vhob0F...@uni-berlin.de:
>
> "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:2vgcvfF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> "Don Young" <No...@NoneSuch.com> wrote in message
>> news:10p5oci...@corp.supernews.com...
>> >I have not seen a response to your question about the ampere
>> >readings.
> The
>> > run winding amperes and start (or capacitor) winding amperes do not
> total to
>> > the common lead amperes because they are not in the same phase.
>> > Similar
> to
>> > how two 120 volt legs on three phase add to 208 instead of 240.
>> > Don Young
>>
>> This is Turtle
>>
>> 1.53 amps on the Start + the 1.53 amps on the run does not = the 2.08
>> amps
> on
>> the common.
>>
>> This is the big I Don't see it thing here.
>>
>
> Difference in phase angle and your dealing with a "reactive" load.....
>
> The true total power consumption can't be determined without knowing
> the phase lag between the two windings and then applying some
> mathematic formulas-
Yes it can.. just grab ahold of the wires. You'll know exaclty how much
power there is.
bertie
Jake
>
> Difference in phase angle and your dealing with a "reactive" load.....
>
> The true total power consumption can't be determined without knowing the
> phase lag between the two windings and then applying some mathematic
> formulas--not something I have a lotta knowledge or experience
with.....just
> that I kinda understand the principles involved here is all.
>
And don't forget you'll get a cancellation effect from one phase (or more)
being out.
A happy, balanced Neutral is what we like to call it when it's not wacky (as
it will be here).
The common current won't tell you a whole lot, I'd guess unless you can get
a manufacturer's spec with the exact motor and cap combination.
I'm too friggin' lazy to try to figure it out, even if I had all the data.
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>I have not seen a response to your question about the ampere readings. The
>run winding amperes and start (or capacitor) winding amperes do not total to
>the common lead amperes because they are not in the same phase. Similar to
>how two 120 volt legs on three phase add to 208 instead of 240.
Yes, they ARE the same phase ( well, OK, offset a few degrees
by the capacitor, but fed from the same phase ).
The common leg is from one phase of the 240, both start and
run are from the other.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>>
>> Difference in phase angle and your dealing with a "reactive" load.....
>>
>> The true total power consumption can't be determined without knowing the
>> phase lag between the two windings and then applying some mathematic
>> formulas--not something I have a lotta knowledge or experience
>with.....just
>> that I kinda understand the principles involved here is all.
>>
>
>
>And don't forget you'll get a cancellation effect from one phase (or more)
>being out.
>
>A happy, balanced Neutral is what we like to call it when it's not wacky (as
>it will be here).
The neutral will be very Unhappy when it learns it was
supposed to show up for work on this 240 V circuit. It thought it had
the day off :-)
>
>The common current won't tell you a whole lot, I'd guess unless you can get
>a manufacturer's spec with the exact motor and cap combination.
>
>I'm too friggin' lazy to try to figure it out, even if I had all the data.
>
>Jake
>
Jake
> The neutral will be very Unhappy when it learns it was
> supposed to show up for work on this 240 V circuit. It thought it had
> the day off :-)
>
>
Oh.
I guess I didn't remember the thread all the way back.
If she's 240 volt, a true RMS should give the right numbers. If it's a few
degrees out, then a averaging meter won't.
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+330.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnitedStates
Suggested list about $140 at a supply house near you.
Jake
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
Paul, Jake, and all others. The customer called back and it tripped the PSH on
the high side again. Yes, I've tested the PSH and it went off at 410 psi.
I'm going back with contactor, Defrost card, Fan motor, blade, PSH & Low,
capasitor, Both Suction & Liquid Drier inside the heat pump condenser unit,
Reversing valve coil, and every part on the condenser except the compressor &
Reversing valve.
i just had a brain fart here. You know that thing has a liquid and suction line
driers inside the condenser unit from the factory. If for some reason the LL
burn out drier plugges up it will do this popping the psh and for no reading of
high pressure at the service ports.
So a new LL drier too.
TURTLE
Noon-Air
Just for grinns....If its tripping in heat mode.....
Make sure that all the indoor vents are all open, that the filter is
clean/new, and that everything else is right inside. In heat mode, the
"condensing coil" is the inside coil. If its not getting the air flow and
heat transfer, the high pressure safety is gonna trip. Might want to check
the blower inside too. also gotta wonder if the insulation inside the plenum
came loose and is blocking the air flow.
I know its all kinda obvious, but.... sometimes can't see the forest for the
trees
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:nbUkd.496993$mD.317728@attbi_s02...
>> >
>>> The neutral will be very Unhappy when it learns it was
>>> supposed to show up for work on this 240 V circuit. It thought it had
>>> the day off :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Oh.
>>
>> I guess I didn't remember the thread all the way back.
>>
>> If she's 240 volt, a true RMS should give the right numbers. If it's a few
>> degrees out, then a averaging meter won't.
>>
>> http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+330.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnitedStates
>>
>> Suggested list about $140 at a supply house near you.
>>
>> Jake
>>
>
>This is Turtle.
>
>Paul, Jake, and all others. The customer called back and it tripped the PSH on
>the high side again. Yes, I've tested the PSH and it went off at 410 psi.
I'd be interested to know the condensor air delta at full
load.
>
>I'm going back with contactor, Defrost card, Fan motor, blade, PSH & Low,
>capasitor, Both Suction & Liquid Drier inside the heat pump condenser unit,
>Reversing valve coil, and every part on the condenser except the compressor &
>Reversing valve.
>
>i just had a brain fart here. You know that thing has a liquid and suction line
>driers inside the condenser unit from the factory. If for some reason the LL
>burn out drier plugges up it will do this popping the psh and for no reading of
>high pressure at the service ports.
>
>So a new LL drier too.
I'm not buying that one at all, but put a shraeder in before
it if you like.
>
>TURTLE
Jake
>
> I'd be interested to know the condensor air delta at full
> load.
>
Maybe a dumb question, but what the hell is "Condenser Air Delta at full
load"?
Just curious again...
Jake
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I'd be interested to know the condensor air delta at full
>> load.
>>
>
>Maybe a dumb question, but what the hell is "Condenser Air Delta at full
>load"?
The temperature difference of the air, ambient vs out of the
condensor, preferably taken on a warm / hot day when the inside is
warm, IE, 'full load'.
If it's too high, that's an indication of inability to reject
heat due to low airflow ( dirty coil, rebreath, fan / blade problems
), which will cause the high-head trip he's having.
Too low, BTW, can indicate other things - load problems (
indoor fan, airaflow, etc ), compressor not pumping, low on freon,
etc.
I'll go ahead and make pull a number out of the long-unused
databank in the back of my mind without looking it up, and say 30 F is
max, anything below 10 - 15 is suspect too.
Now I expect to have those numbers finely ground and fed back
to me forcefully :-)
>
>Just curious again...
>
>Jake
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
I just got going over the flow diagram of the freon flow tubing inside the
condenser and I think I may have found a ERROR of great Brain storming here. The
[ They call a Muffler but is a LL drier ] muffler is between the conpressor and
the reversing valve. I think they screwed up here and put a LL drier between the
compressor discharge and the reversing valve in the discharge of the compressor.
The Muffler they are referring to is a LL Burnout drier and not a Muffler like
they say.
I can't believe this and will see tomorrow for sure. This is Wild and I think
I'm entering Twighlight Zone ! I will start over in the Morning looking at it.
TURTLE
TURTLE
This is Turtle.
i think they have a LL burn out drier inbetween the compressor [ they call it a
Muffler ] and the reversing valve on the discharge of the compressor and when
the snake made it hit 600+ psi it busted the drier or plugged it up. I'm not
sure where the PSH is located to read this drier plugging up or putting out
filter stuff in the expanion valves and system. There is no high pressure
outside at service ports but it can be reading inside where the process tubing
is in the condenser.
I think there is something big wrong here on the Muffler / Drier in it's place.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Wrong. It's common design.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>I just got going over the flow diagram of the freon flow tubing inside the
>condenser and I think I may have found a ERROR of great Brain storming here. The
>[ They call a Muffler but is a LL drier ] muffler is between the conpressor and
>the reversing valve. I think they screwed up here and put a LL drier between the
>compressor discharge and the reversing valve in the discharge of the compressor.
>The Muffler they are referring to is a LL Burnout drier and not a Muffler like
>they say.
Not unusual. Having a drier there, that is. My own one here
at home has it. It's correct design, and the drier is acceptable
there.
What you need to start looking at is something resembling
diagnosis instead of parts-changing.
Gary's famous list would be a good starting point. In fact,
so would his books.
SH, SC, air temps, etc, etc.
>
>I can't believe this and will see tomorrow for sure. This is Wild and I think
>I'm entering Twighlight Zone ! I will start over in the Morning looking at it.
>
>TURTLE
>
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
>
>I have a Amana 13 or 14 seer Heat Pump condenser Model # RHE-48-C2A / Cond. Unit
>Part # 1248206C / Serial # 0405009672 / Hooked up to a AR-60-1[ 5 ton ] air
This is a 5 ton AHU on a 4 ton condensor ? Is that a rated
combination ?
What is the SH and SC ? Need full pressures, temps, etc.
What kind of meter ? Verified correct as installed ?
Linesets correct ?
Noon-Air
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:mcb8p0pe9qgj6ueut...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:45:32 -0600, "TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net>
> wrote:
>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>This one is a reality check on myself on trouble shooting here.
>>
>>I have a Amana 13 or 14 seer Heat Pump condenser Model # RHE-48-C2A /
>>Cond. Unit
>>Part # 1248206C / Serial # 0405009672 / Hooked up to a AR-60-1[ 5 ton ]
>>air
>
> This is a 5 ton AHU on a 4 ton condensor ? Is that a rated
> combination ?
>
> What is the SH and SC ? Need full pressures, temps, etc.
>
> What kind of meter ? Verified correct as installed ?
>
> Linesets correct ?
Ya'know you gonna give him a headache.
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
I could give aspirin a headache ;-)
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-#spamblock*-@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qz9kd.375978$bp1.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>> Mostly in NY we get small garter snakes. Which do no damage.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Christopher A. Young
>
>This is Turtle
>
>These are 3 to 6 foot --- 2 to 4 pound snake we deal with.
>
>TURTLE
>
Could you possibly send a few to Stormy and Davey-fag ?
Oscar_Lives
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:gbc8p0hl2gfpr4j75...@4ax.com...
Yeah, Paul doesn't get ulcers. He GIVES them!
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:nia8p0ps79j9bihi0...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:59:53 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>I just got going over the flow diagram of the freon flow tubing inside the
>>condenser and I think I may have found a ERROR of great Brain storming here.
>>The
>>[ They call a Muffler but is a LL drier ] muffler is between the conpressor
>>and
>>the reversing valve. I think they screwed up here and put a LL drier between
>>the
>>compressor discharge and the reversing valve in the discharge of the
>>compressor.
>>The Muffler they are referring to is a LL Burnout drier and not a Muffler like
>>they say.
>
> Not unusual. Having a drier there, that is. My own one here
> at home has it. It's correct design, and the drier is acceptable
> there.
>
> What you need to start looking at is something resembling
> diagnosis instead of parts-changing.
>
> Gary's famous list would be a good starting point. In fact,
> so would his books.
>
> SH, SC, air temps, etc, etc.
>
This is Turtle.
Yea, I'm in the process of my New Super Tech and i are breaking open our piggy
banks and getting the money up. He only make $6K a month and i make a $1.295 or
so.
The parts list on the Amana website list it as a Muffler and it is a LL Drier
that is on it. they are two different animals.
TURTLE
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:9oa8p0piioi3upjno...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
It is supposde to be a Muffler and they have a LL drier in it's place and then
let the snake cut the fan and run 600 psi of vapor through a liquid drier and it
being about 1` foot from the discharge of the compressor and i think you can
mess it up. i could be wrong but i was a Thunking again.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
They did not accidently install a drier instead of a muffler
at the factory.
I'm telling you, I know for a fact, from Andy ( you know who
he is ), that driers ARE rated for that application.
You won't know anything about this system until you take the
needed readings, including whether or not that drier might be kaput.
Or you could take that whole box of parts you listed before,
throw a muffler and a drier and some other shit in there, put it all
in, and see if anything got better.
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:h9g8p09ib1s6qve0n...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
I'm not scare to shotgun one in a heart beat which will take about 2 hours or
read it to dead for 2 or 3 days. i've had to shot gun a goodman one time for
tring to find a leak. It was leaking in the condenser but could not pen point it
for nothing. I warrantied Coil, Compressor, tubing lones, service valves, and
everything that helt freon. It stop leaking. I had another one about a month
later and found the cap tubes where they entered the condenser coil was leaking.
It was a 13 seer 5 ton straight cool just like the other one. It was on the 1997
model -- 5 ton 13 seer only.
I'm loading up my shotgun tonite.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>>>
>>>This is Turtle.
>>>
>>>It is supposde to be a Muffler and they have a LL drier in it's place and then
>>>let the snake cut the fan and run 600 psi of vapor through a liquid drier and
>>>it
>>>being about 1` foot from the discharge of the compressor and i think you can
>>>mess it up. i could be wrong but i was a Thunking again.
>>>
>>>TURTLE
>>>
>>
>> They did not accidently install a drier instead of a muffler
>> at the factory.
>>
>> I'm telling you, I know for a fact, from Andy ( you know who
>> he is ), that driers ARE rated for that application.
>>
>> You won't know anything about this system until you take the
>> needed readings, including whether or not that drier might be kaput.
>>
>> Or you could take that whole box of parts you listed before,
>> throw a muffler and a drier and some other shit in there, put it all
>> in, and see if anything got better.
>>
>This is Turtle.
>
>I'm not scare to shotgun one in a heart beat which will take about 2 hours or
>read it to dead for 2 or 3 days. i've had to shot gun a goodman one time for
It takes you 2 or 3 DAYS to take a correct set of readings on
a system ?
Maybe your best shot is just change as many parts as you can
lay hands on , then.
Then charge it up until the big pipe is nice and cold like a
beer.
It's called 'being a hack'.
Gary R. Lloyd
wrote:
>
>"Jake" <jkel...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>news:8ockd.69125$HA.8061@attbi_s01...
>> >
>>> Oh - BTW - the start winding is partially shorted (
>>> turn-to-turn ), undoubtedly from trying to start with that snake
>>> wrapped around it. That's your high amps, and thus heat.
>>>
>>
>> Yep...
>>
>> And before long it won't start at all.... just a satisfying HUUUUMMMMMMM!
>>
>> Jake
>
>This is Turtle.
>
>Hey Jake your a Sparky. Ready the story above here but i will fill in here.
>
>I have a Condenser fan motor on a condenser unit mounted up right and blowing
>upward. The Motor has 3 wires to it --- Common, Start / Run Capsitor feed
>circuit, and a Run circuit. The Motor is 220 volt type, 825 R.P.M. , 12.5 uf 370
>capsitor, 1/3 H.P. , The Motor has stop twice and tripped the high side freon
>PSH , Turns clockwise non-reversiable, Motor is wired up to wiring diagram,
>Motor runs hotter than normal all the time, Runs at normal speed, and the motor
>sometimes makes a bird like noise as cherping sound. Check the capasitoir with
>Capsitoir checker and was 12.4 uf 370 volts.
>
>Now Here is the problem. The motor is running and I get these amp reading from
>each leg of the motor wires. Common 2.08 amps, Run wire circuit 1.54 amps , and
>the Start / Capsitor wire circuit 1.54 amps. This does not compute at all. Now I
>replaced the motor and blade with a OEM motor and blade. Well it has the same
>story and same amp reading & everything. It did not change a thing.
>
>What is your take on this ? It's just too crazy for me.
>
>TURTLE
>
When a motor locks up it draws locked rotor amps. This very heavy
amperage flows through any set of contacts that is in series with the
motor. Burnt contacts can cause low voltage to the motor while
running, causing it to overheat. Any contacts in that series circuit
are highly suspect. Did you measure the running voltage at the motor?
Gary R. Lloyd
TURTLE
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:h5t8p05vdlcb2a7ah...@4ax.com...
This is Turtle.
When I'm there everything checks out fine. When I leave there it poppes the PSH
button. The only thing that is not right is the Amp reading to the condenser fan
motor. If it will stop working while I'm watching it. I will tell you right off
what it is. It will just not mess up with me being there.
Now to calling a shotgun shot at a unit a hacks method is not always true. Most
of the time it may be true but when a unit is screwing up when your not there to
see. Well I'm in the process of getting the Tech Method and see. For now i'm
loading up my shotgun.
TURTLE
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
><pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:h5t8p05vdlcb2a7ah...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:22 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>This is Turtle.
>
>When I'm there everything checks out fine. When I leave there it poppes the PSH
>button. The only thing that is not right is the Amp reading to the condenser fan
>motor. If it will stop working while I'm watching it. I will tell you right off
>what it is. It will just not mess up with me being there.
This is called 'a difficult call, a difficult diagnosis'. The
answer is supposed to be knowledge and work and pride and
professionalism, not 'well, let's just change out every part in the
thing and see what happens'.
Who have you been taking lessons from, Stormy and Davey ?
>Now to calling a shotgun shot at a unit a hacks method is not always true. Most
>of the time it may be true but when a unit is screwing up when your not there to
>see. Well I'm in the process of getting the Tech Method and see. For now i'm
>loading up my shotgun.
Yeh, you BETTER buy some kind of book. Buy several.
Any place I EVER worked, if I went back to the shop and told
the boss 'I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, so I want to replace
every part in the thing and see if that fixes anything', I would have
been fired on the spot, and rightly so.
I guess when you're the owner you don't have to worry about
that.
I guess when there's no one else in town who actually KNOWS
what the fuck they're doing, you can get away with not knowing what
the fuck YOU'RE doing, too.
But I wouldn't go around bragging on it if I were you.
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
><pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:h5t8p05vdlcb2a7ah...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:22 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>This is Turtle.
>
>When I'm there everything checks out fine.
How in the hell would YOU know ?
You can't even answer such basic questions about it as :
Is this 5 ton AHU properly matched to this 4 ton condensor ?
Did you check ? Is the metering device correct ? Did you check ?
What is the superheat ?
What is the sub-cool ?
What is the condensor air delta ? Evap delta ? Airflow ?
etc, etc, etc.
All you know is 'it goes out on high head' and 'I got me a
nice big box of parts here I can throw at it, that either the
manufacturer or the customer can pay for, so what the hell do I care
if they don't actually need changing ? I'll never get caught!'.
That's called 'being a hack'. And it is what is wrong with
the HVAC service industry, it is what allows the Stormy's and the
Davey's to make money, while the Noon's and the CB's and the Geo's and
so many others struggle to make ends meet doing it THE RIGHT WAY, and
it is disgusting, and you should be embarrased and ashamed of yourself
for being a rip-off artist and a hack.
You're no different than Stormy or Davey, you just have
delusions of grandeur about it. Come to think of it, so do they, but
you have more.
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
Bertie the Bunyip
onnews:7c2ap0l602487mrs1...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:38:29 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>news:h5t8p05vdlcb2a7ah...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:22 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>When I'm there everything checks out fine. When I leave there it
>>poppes the PSH button. The only thing that is not right is the Amp
>>reading to the condenser fan motor. If it will stop working while I'm
>>watching it. I will tell you right off what it is. It will just not
>>mess up with me being there.
>
> This is called 'a difficult call, a difficult diagnosis'. The
> answer is supposed to be knowledge and work and pride and
> professionalism, not 'well, let's just change out every part in the
> thing and see what happens'.
>
> Who have you been taking lessons from, Stormy and Davey ?
>
>>Now to calling a shotgun shot at a unit a hacks method is not always
>>true. Most of the time it may be true but when a unit is screwing up
>>when your not there to see. Well I'm in the process of getting the
>>Tech Method and see. For now i'm loading up my shotgun.
>
> Yeh, you BETTER buy some kind of book.
Yeh.
Bertie
Bertie the Bunyip
onnews:ur2ap019t45uh6k5f...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:38:29 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>news:h5t8p05vdlcb2a7ah...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:22 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
>>> wrote:
>
>>This is Turtle.
>>
>>When I'm there everything checks out fine.
>
> How in the hell would YOU know ?
>
> You can't even answer such basic questions about it as :
>
> Is this 5 ton AHU properly matched to this 4 ton condensor ?
> Did you check ? Is the metering device correct ? Did you check ?
>
> What is the superheat ?
>
> What is the sub-cool ?
>
> What is the condensor air delta ? Evap delta ? Airflow ?
what a fullfilling life you must lead.
BTW, youhaven't netkkkoped me yet.
Problem?
Bertie
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
>
>This is Turtle.
>
>I'm not scare to shotgun one in a heart beat which will take about 2 hours or
>read it to dead for 2 or 3 days. i've had to shot gun a goodman one time for
>tring to find a leak. It was leaking in the condenser but could not pen point it
>for nothing. I warrantied Coil, Compressor, tubing lones, service valves, and
>everything that helt freon. It stop leaking.
I'm very fucking proud of you.
So are Stormy and Davey.
You can't find a fucking leak, I'm impressed.
> I had another one about a month
>later and found the cap tubes where they entered the condenser coil was leaking.
So ?
>It was a 13 seer 5 ton straight cool just like the other one. It was on the 1997
>model -- 5 ton 13 seer only.
>
>I'm loading up my shotgun tonite.
>
>TURTLE
>
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"TURTLE" <tur...@worldnetla.net> wrote in message
news:2vd1qiF...@uni-berlin.de...
Bertie the Bunyip
onnews:10pa79u...@news.supernews.com:
> On 12 Nov 2004 14:39:42 -0500, Bertie the Bunyip <XZXZ@XZXZ.,XZXZX>
> I believe the accepted protocol here is to mailbomb you into
> submission first, then netkkkop you.
Oh, then I should post my e-mail addie?
Berti e
Bertie the Bunyip
onnews:10pagjc...@news.supernews.com:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:12:52 GMT, pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:18:22 -0600, "TURTLE" <lee...@bellsouth.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>This is Turtle.
>>>
>>>I'm not scare to shotgun one in a heart beat which will take about 2
>>>hours or read it to dead for 2 or 3 days. i've had to shot gun a
>>>goodman one time for tring to find a leak. It was leaking in the
>>>condenser but could not pen point it for nothing. I warrantied Coil,
>>>Compressor, tubing lones, service valves, and everything that helt
>>>freon. It stop leaking.
>>
>> I'm very fucking proud of you.
>>
>> So are Stormy and Davey.
>>
>> You can't find a fucking leak, I'm impressed.
>
> Leave it to you!
I had some Leak soup yeterday, it was lovely.
Bertie
Noon-Air
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:7c2ap0l602487mrs1...@4ax.com...
So tell us Paul.... just exactly what is wrong with it??
Bertie the Bunyip
> On 12 Nov 2004 18:20:20 -0500, Bertie the Bunyip <XZXZ@XZXZ.,XZXZX>
> How'd you find it?
Went to my saltines and turned left.
Bertie
Bertie the Bunyip
> On 12 Nov 2004 18:14:35 -0500, Bertie the Bunyip <XZXZ@XZXZ.,XZXZX>
> That might help. Don't munge it if you want results.
>
What, like he does?
Bwawhahhwahwhahhwhahwhahwhhahw!
That's a hoot.
Bertie
Bertie the Bunyip
onnews:9OKdnYfFkbh...@comcast.com:
seems to me that's a very big question to point on that direction.
Bertie
Bertie the Bunyip
> On 12 Nov 2004 18:26:05 -0500, Bertie the Bunyip <XZXZ@XZXZ.,XZXZX>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>
> What's not to like? I'm sure it would have given Bletchley Park fits.
Yes,mystifying, fortunately I had my decoder ring.
Bertie
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Well, for starters, remind me - what was the SH, SC, etc, etc,
etc ? If you expect a remote diagnosis from 1,000's of miles away,
that would be a good starting point.
Oh, wait - I remember - we don't have all that, T's just
going to throw a box full of parts at it and see if that fixes
anything ......
BGBevill
>discharge line. In fact it is 100% incorrect to place a drier in a
>discharge line.
>
>Mike
>UA local 370
>
Hey Mike,
The first time I saw this I called the distributor and the factory rep and
was told by both that it was okay. I still was leery about it. That was
probably 5 or 6 years ago and I have seen many LL driers in discharge lines
since then. It has indeed become common practice.
Bobby
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
>>It is not common design to have a drier in a discharge line, any
>>discharge line. In fact it is 100% incorrect to place a drier in a
>>discharge line.
Not according to the guy who designs them for a living. Or
maybe you know mote about driers than Andy ?
>Hey Mike,
> The first time I saw this I called the distributor and the factory rep and
>was told by both that it was okay. I still was leery about it. That was
>probably 5 or 6 years ago and I have seen many LL driers in discharge lines
>since then. It has indeed become common practice.
>
>Bobby
I was suprised, too, when I saw the one in my own unit. Which
is why I asked the guy who designed it.
PrecisionMachinisT
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:a2vap0lr0da9mqui4...@4ax.com...
> On 13 Nov 2004 03:13:51 GMT, bgbe...@aol.comnojunk (BGBevill) wrote:
>
> >>It is not common design to have a drier in a discharge line, any
> >>discharge line. In fact it is 100% incorrect to place a drier in a
> >>discharge line.
>
> Not according to the guy who designs them for a living. Or
> maybe you know mote about driers than Andy ?
>
> >Hey Mike,
> > The first time I saw this I called the distributor and the factory rep
and
> >was told by both that it was okay. I still was leery about it. That was
> >probably 5 or 6 years ago and I have seen many LL driers in discharge
lines
> >since then. It has indeed become common practice.
> >
> >Bobby
>
> I was suprised, too, when I saw the one in my own unit. Which
> is why I asked the guy who designed it.
>
>
Curious......
Only with scroll compressor, correct or no ???
--
SVL
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Nope - done with recips, too.
PrecisionMachinisT
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:mr2bp012744461o1c...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:13:53 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
> <Precision...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Curious......
> >
> >Only with scroll compressor, correct or no ???
>
> Nope - done with recips, too.
>
Okay, thanks.
Reason I asked is that I seem to recall reading someplace about the
discharge pressure building to max more rapidly with scrolls, and this
leading to higher starting current--and it seemed to me like some extra
volume before the metering device might come in handy in that case.
Gonna have to read up on filters pretty soon then I guess.
--
SVL
p...@see_my_sig_for_address.com
The condensor is a lot more volumetric space than any filter,
so that's not really a factor.
Also, at the discharge it's a high-volume gas, but in the
condensor it turns to a low-volume liquid.
The real question would be pulsation, high velocity, and high
temperature, and as I mentioned, the guy who designed the filter in
question and is still in charge of designing them today says it's OK,
so that's good enough for me :-)
The pressure inside the drier is the same either way, at the
discharge or right before the metering device, give or take maybe 2 -
5 PSI drop in the coil and linset. At the discharge, it's a
high-velocity gas, after condensing it's a low-velocity liquid. Mass
flow is of course the same at any point in the system.
PrecisionMachinisT
<pjm@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:dn4bp0duqhu9b0t5j...@4ax.com...
>
> The condensor is a lot more volumetric space than any filter,
> so that's not really a factor.
>
True.
>
> Also, at the discharge it's a high-volume gas, but in the
> condensor it turns to a low-volume liquid.
>
Then this because the line is insulated and not much in the way of airflow
over it until it reaches the condensor coils........
( Correct me if I'm missing something )
>
> The real question would be pulsation, high velocity, and high
> temperature, and as I mentioned, the guy who designed the filter in
> question and is still in charge of designing them today says it's OK,
> so that's good enough for me :-)
>
Ahh!!--the part I missed before was "filter design"--assume then new
filtering materials are involved in making this possible.....
And it follows theres at least an advantage that upon catastrophic failure
of the compressor this filter placement at least avoids the spreading
contaminate particles all through the system.
>
> The pressure inside the drier is the same either way, at the
> discharge or right before the metering device, give or take maybe 2 -
> 5 PSI drop in the coil and linset. At the discharge, it's a
> high-velocity gas, after condensing it's a low-velocity liquid. Mass
> flow is of course the same at any point in the system.
>
Yep, pressure inside the vessel only mainly affects the rupture strength of
the shell....
And molecular flow rate capacity is really whats important, makes little
differance if its gas or liquid so long as the material can handle the
temperature.........excepting perhaps some losses to viscosity if its in a
liquid form--and handling it at a gas avoids loss to viscosity too then.
===
But dammit--I asked one question and now I got ten more things to think
about, when I was actually hoping to be able to maybe count sheep tonite as
I drifted off to sleep.
Fuck the sheep, I spose..........
<g>
--
SVL